The Shine Your Light Crew Podcast

SYLC Ep.2 Jennifer Clark Bugajsky: The Pleasure Portal

• Karina Duque • Season 1 • Episode 2

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In this episode, our guest is Jennifer Clark Bugajsky, founder of The Freedom Keys, a transformational Coach for women looking to break free from religious, sexual, and societal conditioning. Through her work—via coaching calls, retreats, and her Sensual Feminine Life Series—Jennifer teaches that you deserve to live with pleasure, power, and purpose without shame.

 We talk about:

  • How pleasure deepens our ability to receive and heal
  • Why presence is the true goal of pleasure
  • Releasing shame around sensuality and embodiment
  • The power of unlearning old stories and rewriting your own
  • What it looks like to live in radical self-trust

This is a soulful, grounding conversation for anyone ready to step out of survival mode and into the fullness of who they are.

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Hello, my friends, and welcome to the Shine Your Light Crew podcast, shining our unique light to heal, evolve, and manifest our best life. I'm your host, Karina Duque. Each episode will shine a light on our personal and spiritual growth, sharing our story, inspiring others. And staying motivated on our own evolving journey, and I want you to be a part of these conversations with us. So if this sounds like your cup of tea, hit the subscribe button, sit back and welcome to the Shine Your Like Crew podcast. Come and hang out with me and Jennifer Clark Bakowski today. She's the founder of the Freedom Keys. We're having a juicy conversation about how our personal pleasure is a pathway to healing, to expanding our capacity to receive and to embodying radical self trust. We're talking about how pleasure anchors us in the now moment where all creation happens, releasing shame around sensuality, breaking through religious and cultural programming to reclaim our sensuality and self-trust, and what it looks like to live in radical self-trust. This is for everyone ready to step out of 3D mode and into the fullness of who they are. Welcome, Jen. I remember when we had sat down, I think I had, I had just launched my new website. It was all corporate look, feel, and I remember hearing this question and they said, do you know why your business isn't where you want it to be? I was like, because I can't talk about sex in corporate America. It was empowerment, life coaching for women, basically. Okay. In a nutshell. Right. Uhhuh. But it was going to women in corporate and you know, coaching for them. Mm-hmm. But what I really wanted to do was dive deeper underneath the surface and everyone kept saying, well, you can get there. You know what I mean? Just. Tell them what they need, you know, whatever. And then when you're there, you can give them the, you know, juicy details underneath. And I'm like, but that, I don't want that. Like, I want to bring this to the surface, not have it hidden. That's the whole point. Um, and have, so we're missing a little bit of context, right? Yes. So in the beginning. When I first met you, you were in corporate America. Mm-hmm. You're the mom of four boys. You were married, but you weren't happily married. You were in what you and other people have called a sexless marriage. Right. So for one reason or another, mm-hmm. You weren't completely 100% fulfilled. And during that transition. You, you went through a transformation. Mm-hmm. And, and that's when I met you during that time and you shared what you were going through, and as well as you were making like big moves, you were making major changes and I'm sure it must have been a difficult time as well as an exciting time. Right. Tell us about that. Yeah. So it's interesting to go back to the whole like marriage thing, like, and it's weird because when I first started this journey, I didn't label it as sexless. I was just unhappy. There were so many things about my relationship that just were not fulfilling. And at that point in time, sex wasn't even important to me. Right? It wasn't something that I was seeking. Which I think a lot of women can relate to. There was not this physical or emotional connection with my husband at the time and. I wanted more for my life. I mean, I felt numb and dead, like inside, walking around like a zombie, right? Working my full-time job, having a business on the side, taking care of the four children, all of that. That there was always just this pressure. So you take all of those things on top of each other and you know, it gets to this boiling points of. I can't take it anymore. And I mean, it wasn't until after I started the sexual healing journey that I realized and was calling it a, you know, sexless marriage. But that's, it was more than just that. I mean, it was a lack of connection in general. And what I think ended up happening was I, I realized that. I didn't think that I was beautiful, sexy, and gorgeous. And that's when the journey really began. I mean, I had this dream where I asked God to come into the center of my marriage like 10 years ago, and he showed me, I like to call it the sex dream, but it was, there was this beautiful woman in green lingerie dancing for my husband, and I was like. Why is there this sexy woman dancing for my husband? That's wild. And they're like, you know the woman in who, the woman in the dream is? I'm like, yeah, she's a mom on the hockey team. And they're like, no, it's you. I'm like, what? Like that's not me. Like I could never be beautiful, sexy, be in this lingerie. I mean, I didn't have the purse, the shoes, the dress, the glasses, like any of that. I was. I would say the average everyday mom, right, who was going to work doing their job, you know, taking care of the kids, running around at four different sport activities and you know, trying to figure out how do I take time for myself in the midst of it. And it was when this dream showed up and I was like, well, shoot, what is in the way of me believing that I am. This beautiful, sexy, gorgeous woman, and that's when the sexual healing began. I knew that I had been raped and pregnant at 16. I had a miscarriage and then was sexually abused by my grandfather as a little girl. So I, in this program, I kind of started unraveling and healing layers that I didn't even know were there to heal and. I remember I was in San Diego for a retreat and I felt my body for the first time, and it was one of those where I literally took my hands on my body. I mean, it wasn't anything weird, but I was like, oh my God. Like I have a body that I can touch and feel and and live in. And it was at that moment when I said, I need to teach women how to live in their bodies. Because we don't, we put up walls and armor and you name it, whatever kind of protective shield we can. It's like we want that love, affection, tenderness, all of that. But we're afraid. Afraid because we've been hurt, but we've also been hurt from generations that get passed down, that we carry with us. So my journey has really been. Healing not just my own wounds, but like generational wounds in regards to the feminine, so that I can step into like, what does it really mean to be a woman? Mm-hmm. The world today. So what, tell us more. So what I know a juicy thing that you told me that Okay. Stuck with me. You met somebody that kind of helped you open the doors. Tell us about that. How did it start? Oh my gosh. Like are you talking about the 50 Shades guy? Yes. Yes. So eventually you separated, which was probably hard. It was probably one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make in my life because I was raised devout Catholic and you don't get divorced. And it's kind of funny because I actually recorded a podcast on why I didn't want a marriage like my parents. And it's weird because it's like we learn about relationships from our parents, and if we don't know what a good relationship is, like we only know what we know and what we've seen. But I was also taught you stick with it. You make it work. So there was a part of me that kept saying, what's wrong with me? Like, why can I not fix this marriage? Like, what do I need to do differently? How do I need to show up differently? What spiritual lesson do I need to learn? And, and it turned out the spiritual lesson was that I needed to walk away. And I can remember when I was praying every day saying, God, you have to give me multiple signs. Like I, I don't even know what the right answer is. Like, I, I can't, I can't do this. Right. I've got four kids. My, my youngest was, I dunno, six at the time or something like that. I can't remember how old he was. But yeah, so that was a really tough experience to go through and to choose the, the separation route. And, you know, the journey after that to then, you know, finding a man or whatever, like there was part of me that I just, just wanted to have some fun, like, wanted to go out there. My, my libido was increasing. Like I, I wanted to experience that intimacy and yeah, and, and then it was like two weeks later I met this guy and. It was very interesting how the universe delivers what you want, right? This man was into, you know, I'll say darker things, and there were parts of me that were curious and other parts of me scared to death, right? Because. You don't do that, like why would you do that? But I had just taken a course called The Well Fucked Woman by a woman named Kim and Ami, and she talked about like BDSM and how it was spiritual. So there was a part of me that was like, there's a spiritual component here, like I'm curious. Mm-hmm. So I had gone on a couple of dates with this guy and it was, I just felt. Like exciting and shameful all at the same time. Yeah. Like why would I even want to explore anything in this arena? And I don't even know what the heck it is, you know, kind of a deal. And, and I think this is when I was starting to figure out like what path am I gonna go down, you know, type of thing. And. I think, I think it was a bondage card of some sort, I think that you pulled. Mm-hmm. Because I was like, okay, what am I gonna do here? But, but here's the thing that I find interesting about and, and I'm not an expert in BDSM, and nor is it my thing, but what I wanna say about it is, I think what ends up happening and why I was maybe attracted to the concept of it is as women, we wanna control everything. Like, and sometimes what we need to do, we need to surrender. Let go and, and I think what intrigued me about that concept was if you are allowing yourself to contextually be in bondage, you are surrendering and you are reprogramming pieces of the psyche that are trying to be in control, but, but you're doing it in a safe and loving container. And, and it's so fascinating to like even think about,'cause this was six years ago, I think it was interesting because we had a couple of meetings together and then I was like, oh my gosh, how are you gonna corrupt me next? And his answer to me was, I, I'm not gonna corrupt you. It actually ended because he wanted me to choose for me. Right. Not to enter into something that wasn't really, really wanted kind of a thing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So it was a very respectful awareness opening, you know, type of thing. So I think that card was interesting that you pulled, because it was like, I could have gone one of two routes, right? Like I could have said, you know what, I wanna explore this more deeply. Mm-hmm. Which I could have. Parts of me wondered, well, what if I did, you know, but that's not the path I chose. We parted ways and then I ended up meeting somebody different a few months later. But what it did was it awakened my body and my sexuality into a different way of being and just opened me up to. The fact that there's so much more to this physical human experience. Like I think that so many women do not necessarily enjoy physical pleasure because we don't know what it is. We have no idea what's possible, so we don't even go there because it's not important to us. Right. And I've had a lover for a different lover after that and, and he kind of helped. Crack me open into it was a combination of him, but then also practices like I'm very big in the jade egg. Do you know what a jade egg is? Okay. So it is my little friend over here. It's like it has its own little, it's a crystal egg. Mm-hmm. So it's basically the crystal that you insert into the vaginal area and you, it's basically you're doing meditations with it. While you are squeezing, releasing, breathing, you know, kind of a thing really. So, yes, and this little tool, I mean, I think has really cleared a lot of pain, tension, trauma that I was holding inside my body. Wow. I remember there was one day I did an activity and I literally. I think I screamed, laughed, peed, cried, all at the same time. You know, and, and it's weird. It's like, it's one of those things you can't predict. It's gonna happen. It just happens, right? And, and I remembered laying there and just. Being in all the feelings. And I remember posting in a, in a group,'cause I was in a, a, I don't wanna say a coaching program, but in a, for the jaded kind of a deal. And the next morning I woke up and there were like a hundred likes and comments on my post because I said, I'm tired of being ashamed of my body. Yeah, I'm tired of worrying if I'm gonna pee on somebody. I'm tired of worrying about if I'm gonna say the right thing when I am intimate with someone. Like I'm tired of not knowing what the fuck I'm doing. I was a 40 something year old woman who hadn't really had a lot of sexual experiences, so I didn't know what to do. I mean, you can read it in a book, but it's different. When you actually experience it and, and do it. So I just, I felt like I was so angry that I didn't experience this part of me when I was in my twenties, right? Like, I didn't explore when I was younger. I didn't test things out, you know, that type of thing that I was just completely clueless. So it was just claiming I'm tired of the shame and the guilt around. My body, my sexuality, all the stuff we've been shamed for. And these women were like, thank you for saying what I could never say. Or, oh my God, I hope I can be like that. I mean, just, I'm like, holy crap. Like these are the conversations we need to have with women. Yes. Right. Like when one woman shares their story, then other women. Can learn from it because no one's talking about this stuff in a, I'll call it a healthy way, and I shouldn't say nobody. A lot of people are not talking about it in a healthy way. Mm-hmm. Right? It's using the body to heal. Yes. And to understand the power that the body has to heal, the pleasure that the body can actually experience. But we focus so much more on pain. Than pleasure. And it's been such a, a man's world. Mm-hmm. You know, so if the woman wants to go down that route, it's immediately seen as like, ooh, lust. And you're right. There's so much healing that needs to be done. Yeah. Around our body, our sexuality, our feminine power. It's like one of the greatest gifts and powers we've been given with our body. Is, I mean, greatest is pleasure. I, I mean, I use the word pleasure and people look at me like I've got four heads. Right? But like, it's a naughty word, right? It's like it's you can't have pleasure. Sorry. No. Right. Right. And if I say I'm a pleasure coach, people are like, I don't need that. But the truth of the matter, we all do. I don't, have you ever read Mama Gina's book, pussy or Reclamation? No. Okay. I'm listening. So I would be, I would recommend that to every woman. What's great about it is she wrote it for all the women who will never read it because of the name. Right. So there's so much charge around the P word. Mm-hmm. And. The book is fabulous. One of these days I actually said for season two of my podcast, I wanted to take her book and break it out piece by piece, and I will, it's just a matter of deciding when is the right time to do that. Um, sometime, maybe later this year. What, what's the name of your podcast? Oh, the name of my podcast is called The Central Feminine Life. Cool. Yes. So what's interesting though is I've actually studied with Mama Gina. The this past year and became certified as a pleasure coach and everything there is teaching women how to use your body to heal. So it is, how can you get out of your head and get into your body, and there's the combination of using your body for healing. And processing those, you know, negative beliefs and things like that, that are, are showing up and how you can cleanse the energy through moving your body, uh, doing any embodiment practice, you know, kind of a thing. And also doing more of what I'll call turnon within the body. So there's a body clearing, but then a body turnon kind of a thing. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So it's. Using the body to heal, but then don't just stay there. Right? Raise that vibration. You know, people talk about gratitude being, you know, the highest level of vibration. Well, pleasure is right there with it because when you are experiencing pleasure, you're not thinking. Yeah, but you're, you're in present moments, right? Right. That's the whole point. Like you want to be in present moment and when you're experiencing pleasure, like there's always more bliss that you can feel. That's what's super cool about it. Like there's an end to pain pleasure's unlimited. Hmm. So there are new layers of pleasure that you can continue to feel experience along the way. And what I have seen is you can grow through pain or pleasure. Mm-hmm. So and so many of us choose to grow through pain. Right? Yeah. And, and it doesn't mean that you're only gonna grow through pleasure. It, it's a balance. But most of us hit our. Storms and we grow from the pain. Yeah. But as you've seen from my journey as well too, I grow when I experience pleasure. Like when I started ballroom dancing and I did a dance competition, was it two or three years ago, I did a dance competition for a weekend, and when I came off that, that weekend, it was like a retreat, right? You think about a retreat, you go deep, right? Yeah. But this was the body feeling, the depth, but not having the conversation about it type of thing. And I came out of that weekend and was like, holy crap. Like I could feel my body healing and releasing and claiming new things, but it's because I was in pleasure. Yeah, right. Like I wasn't even thinking, oh, I'm healing this weekend. Right. No, it wasn't until after it was all said and done and I was like, ho, holy crap. Wait, I, I need to give myself a day. I, I remember I even had to cancel my fireside chat'cause I was doing those monthly, I, I literally couldn't function. I'm like, you know what? I have to honor me and say, you know what, I'm gonna skip today. Mm-hmm. And that's leading by example and saying, look, I'm listening to what my body needs right now. We all hear our bodies know the truth, but we don't listen. Right? We're so disconnected from the body that we don't allow ourselves to fully listen to what she's trying to tell us, which is why I think so many of us have health issues because mm-hmm. The emotions that are unexpressed get held in the body. Yeah. And turned into some kind of physical pain. Yes. And, and the opposite of pain is pleasure. So think you wanna keep focusing on pain or PO pleasure. Right. Like, I think the awareness is trickling in more to more and more people. That we don't have to grow and learn and evolve through pain. Yeah. Like it, it pain, whether it's. Physical, spiritual, or mental. Is a part of our existence. Mm-hmm. You know, it's gonna be there, but it doesn't have to be the only way that we can experience growth. Yes. And happiness, evolution, healing. Mm-hmm. It can be through pleasure too. And I think more and more people are realizing that and embracing that idea. Like, so when you were having that realization of like, wow, this is through pleasure, that I'm evolving, that I'm healing. What were some of the physical mm-hmm. Changes or, or experiences that you felt that you experienced because you tapped into something that you hadn't tapped into before. Yeah. It was something that was kind of dormant. And as you were talking about before, like ancestrally, it could have been dormant for thousands of years or hundreds of years. Right, that you're carrying that. Correct. Yeah. So now all of a sudden you're tapping into it, turning it on, nudging it, and what happens? It is hard to describe, but it's a feeling of more aliveness and not just, oh, I'm happy today. Right. And it's hard to describe if you haven't experienced it. Mm-hmm. This is actually a really good question, like for me to even like try to say to women, because I think part of the challenge is they're like, okay, well how do I even get a taste of it? Like you, you first have to want a, a taste of it. It it's like this bliss, this overwhelming ecstasy sound, and I've never done ecstasy, but like I am, I'm imagining that like if someone had actually done like a, a love drug or whatever, right? It's, it's that kind of high. Mm-hmm. Feeling. In the body and last night I was actually at a a co-ed event, which I've never been at a co-ed dance event. It's always been just women sacred healing. And what's amazing is when you can experience. And be in the energy of just moving your body. Dancing is so fun, blissful. Oh, you're just letting go of so many peoples. It's weird. Like I, I'm trying to figure out how to describe, it's almost like a high of Yeah. Being on a drug, but, but it's being high on life, right? It is. It's that life force energy. When that life force energy is on, you're shining your lights. Yeah. And you're magnetic. Like say, all of us, we all wanna shine our lights. Right. Everybody wants to be the best version of themself, but mm-hmm. We don't have our lights on. When you're tapped into that pleasure, that, that sexual energy, and it's not about sex, it's the energy that is within it. You are connected with life. You, it's like you're high on life is the easiest way to describe it, and you can create that anywhere. You can create it in your bedroom. You can create it in your kitchen, you know, like whatever. Like it doesn't have to be in a sacred ceremony, but because we don't know how to do it right, and it doesn't have to be the apex of an orgasm. Not at all. Right. Right. Like I think that's what we initially think. Like, well I have to be like in a state of orgasm. Mm-hmm. 24 7 to be in a bliss. No, that's one way to feel it. Yes. And to tap into it. Mm-hmm. Right. But as you're saying, there are many ways and as if you are afraid of that mm-hmm. Tapping into that, it might be worth exploring.'cause obviously there's something absolutely there. Well, and I love how you mentioned that,'cause Thank you for saying that.'cause pleasure is not just about orgasm and it's a component, but it's not the whole thing. And when Mama Gina taught us, she basically said, I want you to experience pleasure for pleasure's sake. It's not about coming to orgasm. Mm-hmm. If you experience orgasm. While you are experiencing pleasure, great. But I want you to focus on not having the orgasm. Mm-hmm. Because I think what happens is women, we're in our heads all the time. Right. We're overthinking. And then when you have the goal of, okay, gotta have the orgasm, well, it gets in the way. Mm-hmm. Of. Actually having the experience that you want to have. So releasing that expectation, releasing that goal, being in present moment, it's a whole sensory pleasure experience. What it actually does is two things. One, it reprograms the brain. It reprograms the cellular memory of the body, and it helps to re-pattern the stress cycles. So what's interesting and people are like, oh, pleasure. Well, you wanna reduce stress and anxiety, have a pleasure practice because what you do is you retrain that memory to experience pleasure. Mm-hmm. As a, and, and it's the nervous system that now is knows how to be in pleasure mode and go, okay, wait a minute. No, no, no. I don't need to be in this stress. It's the elongate the pleasure, be in the present, create that juiciness, you know, kind of thing. And it is profound. Yeah. And I'm sure that it opens up like this gift box. For all these other issues to surface and be, it does seen, you know, the self-worth issue would be a big one that pops up like my body is not worthy of. Being in a relationship with somebody. Sure. Your body issues, your self-worth issues. Mm-hmm. Your programming, your childhood programming of what's yes, quote unquote good, what's quote unquote bad, and all of these things kind of rise up almost like when you're cooking a soup and, and the. The phone. Sure. You wanna scoop it out and, and it's seen and it's like, oh, I didn't even realize that that was bubbling underneath the surface. Yeah. So what a cleanse. That alone to take a moment and, and without judgment be like, oh yeah, I know that this is an issue that needs attention and love, and, and that's an issue. And maybe there's some surprises in there for everyone as well. Yeah, I, I feel like it's a different form of meditation. I think that a lot of times, I mean, we know meditation is important, but sometimes people struggle because they can't steal the body. Right. It's like the, the body is, is sitting there, but the mind is racing and it's like, yeah, okay. But if you can involve the body, right. Invite the body into the meditation mm-hmm. Then it, I think it makes it easier. So like, one of the modalities I teach is a, a called chakra dance. And I like to say that it's like meditation on steroids because it's a meditation, but you're moving.'cause you're moving your body while you're experiencing this. This meditative words or visualization, you know, as a part of it. So it can be easier for the person to be engaged and not go, you know, well that was kind of boring because we're including the body. The same thing with like breath work. Or, or pleasure of just literally physically touching the, like even touching your hands. Mm-hmm. Like you can actually raise your vibration and stimulate pleasure literally by doing this. Mm-hmm. Now. Not doing it like, oh, I'm taking a shower. You know what I mean? It's like right when you take a shower and you wash yourself. Okay. But you can take a shower and, and really be in your body. Right, right. That's what I mean with this. Like it's when you can really feel into it and you allow yourself to be present, spirit speaks and brings things to the surface. Maybe in the moment, maybe not in the moment, maybe it's an hour later. Mm-hmm. But. Imagine a life when, when you are in pleasure and something comes up to heal, right? It's like Spirit is directly speaking to us because we're open to receive. So I think what what's interesting about pleasure is it expands our capacity to receive more. Mm-hmm. So if you can elongate the. The timeframe that you're experiencing. Pleasure. And it's not just a wham bam, thank you ma'am. Five 10 minute ordeal, right? Mm-hmm. You're then programming your energy fields to continue to be open, not just for pleasure, but to receive whatever you want. Yeah. Coming to you. Wow, that's amazing. And tell us how. You've grown creatively. Yeah. Abundance wise financially.'cause I know that you, you've grown and Yeah. In so many ways, right? Yes. So, well, here's the thing. When you open up that sacral chakra, you open up your creative energy. Mm-hmm. Right? So the creativity comes in all different ways. I mean, one of the first things was my book series. So I wrote six books. What, what? It was too much for one Uhhuh, right? So the series is called The Sensual Feminine Life, but the first book is The Good Girl, which is about healing the conditioning around what it means to be a woman. The second book is called The Inquisitive, and it's about desire and pleasure. The third book is The Goddess, and it is Tools for Loving Your Body. The fourth is the bombshell, and it's about tuning into that feminine energy, like what does feminine energy really mean? How do you dive deeper into it? The fifth is the vixen, and it's about letting go of control and surrendering, and then the last one is the Queen, and it's really a combination of claiming your self worth, your self value, and pulling it all together and like living that fullest life. That you desire, so. Mm-hmm. What's interesting is all of these books, they have experiences of my own life in it, right? Because it's like, this is the journey that, that I took. Now, not all my stories are in there, but like, you know, there are pieces of that journey because people need to hear, right? Just like we were talking at the beginning. If it's something is unknown, people need to hear the stories of how you can tap into that and that it's more than just, I enjoy sex and orgasm. Right. It's, I have a podcast that I put out there, so it's about healing and feeling good, you know, at the same time. Mm-hmm. And then of course, I started my podcast a year and a half ago. And just the, the new creative ideas that come to the table of, okay, here's what to do next. But what I think it's done a lot too, is expanded my capacity to receive and what I claim, right? Mm-hmm. So I didn't set out to be a ballroom dancer. Like you didn't know me as I wasn't dancing when I met you, you know? And then ballroom dancing just showed up in my life. Mm-hmm. And. That was a way to be in my body. Yeah. And it taught me a little bit of a different dance with men because I think one of the things that is not talked about enough in the healing world is how men and women need each other in the healing journey. That like, I can't tell you how many people said to me, oh, you don't need a man, Jen. You just don't need one. Well, yes, I'm a very strong independent woman and I don't need one. But as a human, I do. Mm-hmm. Right. Like as humans, men and women need each other because we need that balance of, that, that energy to help us step into the queen of our life. Yeah. When, when we show up as the queen, he can show up as the king and And vice versa. Yes. Beautiful. Mm-hmm. I think that that has really. I've been gifted with the opportunity to, you know, have connections with men on the dance floor, like in ballroom dance, because that helped the, the masculine feminine polarity. Yeah. And the, the men I have dated as well too, so, you know, it's sometimes I'm like, well, you know what, I don't have that man yet right in my life, but. I'm so much fucking happier than many of the women out there mm-hmm. Who have a man, but they're not enjoying them. Right. You know, it's like there's a part of me that, that has held myself back, you know, a, a tape in my head, like, yeah, but I have to have the relationship right before people will go, oh, Jen's finally there. Right. She's learned all these things. Now she's got the relationship and it's like. But that's not what it's about. It, it's the healing journey through the experience of loving ourself. Um, Leila Martin, one of my mentors, has said something like, unconditional love can only come from you. You will never receive unconditional love from anyone else. And some of the moms, I out there might go, no, no, no, no. I unconditionally love my child. We don't, okay. We have expectations. We have needs, we have desire. You know what I mean? I want you to clean your room, like little things like that. But we feel like we have this unconditional love, but we, we, we don't because we don't really know what love is because we haven't been taught. Ourselves, how to fully love who we are and to show up as this full piece of us. Like mm-hmm. The divorcing wasn't wrong and there wasn't anything to save. I don't like using the word save marriages, that there wasn't a marriage to save because there wasn't that fullness or union. From the beginning. Mm-hmm. It was two people who got together, um, for the Yeah, and, and for the reasons at the time, which seems perfectly, like that's the path, like that's the normal path, and that's what the community expects. And then enlightenment happens. Well, when I look back, I married my husband because he didn't want me for sex. Right. Like I was trying to protect myself from the date rape as a teenager. Ah. So when as I went back and did the healing work, like I fell in love with him because he didn't want me for that. But that wasn't me. Right. I was a shell. So again, the decision made at the time, you know, and again, I wouldn't have my children and all of that, like if I mm-hmm. Didn't make those decisions. So I'm not regretting, it's fascinating when I go back and I look at why did I make some of the decisions I made, and I think it's hard for us to really open up and be truthful with ourselves on. Why we made some of the decisions we did in the past and how we can learn and grow from them and know that, okay, I made that decision back then and that's okay, but making this decision now doesn't mean that I'm wrong. It takes two people to make a relationship work, and both people have to want to work together. So. You can do the healing work, you're gonna grow and evolve, and your partner can choose to grow with you. Mm-hmm. Or choose to grow away that that's still their choice. Right. Right. You can't force them to do that. Mm-hmm. And, and I think it's probably one of the scariest things in, in saying yes to this work, because there is no guarantee. You don't know what your partner is going to. Do or not, we all need to grow and heal. There's no human out there that doesn't need to grow. And our relationships are our greatest teachers. And if we allowed them to be, we could tap into so much more growth. But most of the time we get frustrated at our partners because they're not fulfilling our needs or whatever it is. But if we looked at those triggers and we used them as opportunities. For growth. Mm-hmm. It would help both of us grow as humans. Yeah. As opposed to, you know, I am woman. Hear me roar. I, I, I don't like the I am woman. Hear me ro mentality. There is the component of being honest and stepping up for your truth, but there's also the component of, we are all healing in this. Together and a wise healer of mine said something about like, when having deep conversations, it's, I speak my truth with love and I hear his truth with love. Mm-hmm. Right. So it's both people have feelings, they're not right or wrong, they just are, but it's having that container. Where you can have that type of conversation. And most of us don't have that. It's, we don't get what we want and it's, yeah. You know, let me move on. And I've even had coaches say to me, that's not going the way that it should go. Just cut it off. Just, you know what I mean? Like, be a bitch. I'm like, it doesn't feel right. I, I get it. And is that the best answer for the healing of the planet? Because this is more than just me and my healing. This is actually even healing for me, saying this out loud at the moment right now. Because yes, if I focus just on me and what I wanted, I might do one thing. But if I focus on me and what is in the best interest of everyone involved in the healing of the planet, it's a different. Conversation. That's a big, beautiful thought. Mm-hmm. When taking, when making your next decision. Ooh. That was, that was kind of powerful. So this has been fascinating. There is so much to. Dig into, so someone beginning, you've been on the journey for a little while, so someone just starting out, what can they do? Where can they find you? What's like the first step someone can take? The first step to be honest, is you can go to listen to my podcast. I mean, because nobody knows you're listening, so if you're listening, you just put your headphones in and and hear the topics that I think are really important for us to talk about in this area. I also have a, a private Facebook group called The Central Feminine Life, and in there I open things up to talk a little bit deeper if people want to hear more conversation type of thing. And I would say like, those are the two biggest ways. The other is I do free consultations with women that if you're curious, schedule a call with me and I'll share with you, you know, I don't wanna say whatever I can, but understand what you're going through. I, I think it's. People, you're either gonna hear from this podcast, right? Or they're gonna hear from my podcast that say, you know what? There's something in this woman's energy that's calling to me, right? If there's some kind of pull or connection, listen to it like it is our body. It is spirit calling us that there is something here for you. If you're actually listening to this right now, there's something here for you and take the next step. Mel. Robin says Five seconds. It takes five seconds. In the first five seconds, we know the answer. After five seconds, our monkey mind gets in the way. Mm-hmm. So if you're hearing this and you're like, oh, I wanna learn more, take an action right now, go listen to the podcast. Go join my group, you can sign up, you know, for my email list, that type of thing. Mm-hmm. Because if you wait, you are gonna talk yourself out of it. Right. And you're gonna go, you know what, I really shouldn't be talking about Pleasure. I really shouldn't be thinking about that. Oh gosh. You know what happens if, if I actually get divorced? So if you felt something, take the first action and it doesn't cost you any money, and then you can be in that energy and then when you're ready to say yes, that you wanna take a program, you wanna do more, you wanna join my next event, that type of thing. Mm-hmm. You can then hear about like the next things that are available. That's wonderful. Yes. And all of your links will be in the show notes, so you can check them out there. This has been such a pleasure. It's such a pleasure to talk with you on these mm-hmm. Amazing, powerful topics that we all need to hear, and I think our minds and spirits are now open to take this next step mm-hmm. In our human journey. Yes. And so grateful to you as a pioneer. Thank you so much for having me. It, it's been an honor. Thank you for being part of the Shine Your Light Crew podcast. If this conversation moved you, inspired you, or made you think differently, I'd love for you to follow the show, rate it and leave a review. It truly helps us grow and reach more people who are ready to shine. And if you're not already part of our crew, come join us. You can connect with us on Instagram at Shine Your Light Crew, and subscribe to my writing@carinaduque.substack.com where I share more on personal evolution, creativity, and living your best life. I'm Karina Duque. Until next time, keep shining your light. Take care here.