Tonka Talk Community and Connection
Welcome to Tonka Talk, the podcast that explores community and connection around Lake Minnetonka.
Nestled near the serene shores of Lake Minnetonka in the Twin Cities, our show is your guide to discovering the inspiring stories of individuals and groups who are crafting vibrant, meaningful community and connection in this picturesque setting.
From lakeside gatherings to community events, from stories of local heroes to heartwarming tales of collaboration, we dive into the ways people are coming together to create a strong sense of belonging.
Whether you're a longtime resident, a newcomer to the area, or simply interested in the power of community, Tonka Talk has something for you.
Do you know of someone creating community and connection in a unique or big way? Share it with us. We would love to hear from you.
Learn more and connect with us at https://www.tonkatalk.com
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Tonka Talk Community and Connection
Harnessing Improv to Forge Stronger Connections in a Disconnected World
Ever wondered how the pros turn social anxiety into a magnetic presence? Lori Crever, author, actress, and speaker, joins Tonka Talk to reveal the powerful synergy between mentorship and improv, as laid out in her riveting book "Protégé Power."
We weave through the art of creating positive connections that can weather any storm. Her wisdom isn't just theory; it's a lifeline for anyone looking to thrive in their personal and professional networks.
These tales aren't just relatable—they're your guide to navigating those tricky moments with grace and safeguarding the sanctity of personal boundaries.
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Hello and welcome to Tonka Talk. Welcome to one of our lives which is also going to be a podcast episode. I'm Natalie Webster and on Tonka Talk we share the ways people create community and connection, find their way in the world. And today my guest is a woman who who, if we had to list out really everything that she did, we would honestly just be here all day. She's an author, she's an actress and she's a speaker, and her name is Laurie Creaver.
Speaker 2:Welcome, Laurie. It's great to come back. Natalie, I'm so excited to talk with you today.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we're talking about a very I think, a really interesting topic. So if you are joining us on the live, feel free to jump into the comments and share any comments or questions that you have, and if you have any questions for Laurie, we'll work on getting to that. Now Laurie does. Let's just let's start with just one part. Let's start with. You're an author. She wrote a book called Protégé Power. Can you, can you kind of tell people what the book was basically about?
Speaker 2:Protégé Power is a career development book about the immense value having a good mentor can bring to your life, to your happiness, your mental health and your career success. And I'm excited to talk today, natalie, you and I, about positive networks, positive connections, because so often in our career, if we're looking to make a job change or looking to find a mentor, someone to be a sounding board and a helper and a guide, what precedes that is having a good network, a good network of people that are positive and honest and really affirm and support you that is that's very true.
Speaker 1:That's very true. What I find very interesting about your work, you know, with mentoring and the topic we're talking about, it's there's a little bit of a plot twist here. People, a little bit of a plot twist. Hello, kelly Mills from Cuba. Wow, that's really. I just geek out when people jump into our live chat from other other places. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2:It's wonderful, muy bonita.
Speaker 1:You do improv work.
Speaker 2:Yes, I am a late bloomer. On topic of improvisation, I had done scripted theater in a regular place, on and off, since I was five years old, but it really wasn't until I was 41 years old that I embraced and started to study and then perform improvisation and I like to say, taking an improvisation class it's like taking your imagination to the gym. And, natalie, many people don't believe this about me, but on the Myers-Briggs assessment, I show up as a big old I, which is what For introvert? What? Well, I know, like many people involved with theater and performing arts, I can manifest a very seemingly extroverted personality. But on Myers-Briggs, if you show up as introvert, what that means is that you recharge your battery from a long time.
Speaker 2:And so from this, I definitely had throughout my life and I think some of the viewers or listeners might relate to this a lot of social anxiety. And I was working in international banking, pretty sophisticated area, and I would get deployed constantly to go to business lunches and business social events and I would have such sweaty palms and anxiety because I would think I'm going to blurt out the wrong thing or I'm going to say something that's going to demonstrate I'm not very bright after all and people around me are going to wonder who admitted hurt to the ranks of international banking. Don't those people have good education and smarts and good vocabulary, right? Well, how this ties into improvisation is after I started studying improvisation, within a year and a half or two I began to notice complete 180. Really, yeah, social situations. I no longer had that anxiety because improvisation you work your social muscles, as it were, on being able to be present and remain present no matter what someone grows at you.
Speaker 2:No matter what. So I didn't have that nervousness anymore. So that's how improv I find is very useful for connections, networking and, I think, any profession any profession.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right, and hello Sue Irwin in the chat there Having. It's so funny because knowing you and I've known her for a while. But I totally get it because I do the same thing, where for me to recharge I really need to be alone or just with my Tony, and often in a windowless room, or in fact I used to have when I used to live in a town home. I had a walk-in closet and I had it set up with a chair in there so that I could go into the closet and shut the door and the lights were more dim and that was how I kind of recharged. And now I don't have room in my closet but I'll close the blinds out. I just need some time to recharge that way. So I guess I'm with you. I feel that way too in terms of energy and the same thing. Sometimes people don't believe me. They're like well, we can be socially extroverted and interested in other people and aggressively enthusiastic.
Speaker 2:We are assertively enthusiastic, Exactly assertively. Hang on to your socks.
Speaker 1:But be able to recharge that way. How do you find that in the, whether it's in working in the corporate world or doing a speaking engagement, or with the way improv plays into this? I feel like all of these experiences you've been able to, this topic of strengthening positive connections and getting rid of toxicity. As an artist, as an author, I feel that there must, because I've seen this where you're almost like sometimes a little bit of a magnet for that nasty energy and that toxic behavior. How does this all come together to like, how do you deal with it?
Speaker 2:That is so powerful, absolutely. I sometimes just could fall off my seat with how blindside did I get, with people just giving you harsh, unsolicited guidance that is super, not in line in any way with who you are. It is stressful. It is stressful. I try to follow the wisdom from Gandhi of be the change that you would like to see in the world. This is something else I take from improv. One of the principles of improvisation I'm sure several of you are aware of this is to say yes, yes, and but preceding that would be that you actually have your antenna up for something about the other human being to affirm that you would like to affirm. So I go into social situations and dialogue with others, listening for and having my antenna up for what is the good stuff about this person to amplify, to acknowledge, to affirm, and then I do expect that. That's how people handle conversation, you know, from their end, with me as well, right, yeah, because you're not going in there.
Speaker 1:And if you get some type of you know negative response or maybe it's somebody that you're working with in the office place, right, or maybe sometimes it's somebody in your family, or even it'd be somebody in your friend group that just brings that negative attitude. And there's a difference between, hey, I'm struggling right now, I'm having a bad day I will even admit, not every day is all rainbows and unicorns, what, as much as I would like for it to be, it is just not always, not always that way, but something I've definitely learned this is why I think your book and everything out really resonates with me is because that is exactly it. Right, if you can, we get what we focus on. And sometimes I mean, some people are just no matter what you do, it's just a rotten egg. You just can't get rid of the smell.
Speaker 1:That's right and then that's time to you know diplomatically, but, you know, distance yourself from that person or that situation but, being an improv, you're saying these are skills that help you in your career path, because what you're doing is you're going out and doing speaking engagement and you're dealing with people, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you're saying yes, you're finding what is good and positive and something to amplify and strengthen, Like you're saying. Natalie, you know we continue to find that we get more of what we put energy into. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And here's. You know we are doing this live during a time of year where many of us are going to be spending more and more time with family and extended family. And here's the delicacy and forgive me if it seems ironic, because I write and speak about mentoring. We talked about this before, natalie about installing a mental speed bump when you're listening to someone and you think, oh, oh, oh, I could fix them. I can fix this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Put that speed, bump in and really pause before you offer advice that's not been requested of you. Cool, here is the risk when we offer unsolicited advice and think about this. If this has happened to you, it can easily react on us receiving it as wow, this person is only listening to me through a lens of my deficiencies, yeah, and it feels awful. Yeah, so far different. If someone comes to you or someone pulls you aside at a family function because of this, that or the other expertise or experience you have and says I'm so glad you're here. Would you mind could I talk to you for a moment? I have a situation like Natalie, with you.
Speaker 2:You do real estate. Maybe someone pulls you aside and says I've got a question about this property or how to stage a house, or then weigh in. Obviously they've explicitly asked you to, but unless they've asked you to do, you think you've got something fabulous to offer. You can certainly always say hearing what you're saying. I have some thoughts on this. Would you like to hear them? First? It's just going into their house. Give them the chance to say no, right, because sometimes we just want to vent, we just want to be heard, and that is a positive connection, someone that hears us, listens without judgment, accepts us and just give us that nice, hearty acknowledgement that we've been heard.
Speaker 1:So, Kelly says, a friend always smiled and said hi, how are you? To his enemies? Very disconcerting for them, Absolutely. I am a big believer and, Laura, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and we will also say hello, Aloha ladies, Aloha from Oregon. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Tell me this do you find with and I'm kind of like I'm fascinated with the improv part of this too and how it plays into having these skills, because, as someone who has, because of my background and the way I grew up, often struggled with social situations and feeling like I'm just saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing, but then also coming to learn that there's no wrong thing, I think to say, really, if you're being conscious of what you're saying, of the other person, right and is what you're talking about, you can bring up a topic that maybe is unsolicited.
Speaker 1:But I think you're right when it comes to if I walk into somebody's house and I'm like you know what, you should really move these things around here, and maybe they're not even selling their home, but I'm like because to sell your house and I'm coming up with all these solutions and they're like what are you talking about? I'm not even trying to sell my home? I wouldn't do that. Yet We'll go to family gatherings or other social things and there's always that person, at least one who does exactly that, where it's just they feel like it's open season on all of your faults and the way sometimes it's communicated. You still single. You still single.
Speaker 2:How about this? If anybody out there has a death wish right now, go to a family function and offer unsolicited parenting advice? That is going to just. I've never, ever seen that go well.
Speaker 1:Not a welcome thing. No, there's certain things you don't talk about. I mean house. I'm so loving this talk and it's full for communication, thank you, thank you. That is very, that's very true. You find that is this something that came easy to you when you got into improv and you're using these improv skills in regular relationships. You're using them in business. Talk some more about some of those tips. Like you said, not sharing unsolicited advice is a very good one. Oh, it did not come well at all.
Speaker 2:It did not come well at all. I mean full disclosure, no. And I well remember when I started studying improv, I had just been promoted in my corporate job to be a manager and so be a boss, and in my mind, just how I was raised as the boss. This is so old fashioned, but it made me think all right, that means I know everything. How fortunate you would be to be a direct report of mine and improv just completely.
Speaker 2:You know, it was like being thrown into a blender or something. I mean it just turned all that on its side because they want you to be approaching your group setting as like status lists and have the notion that each person with whom you're interacting and working has an infinite capacity for wisdom, imagination, bright ideas. And so I had to become what I believe is a more contemporary version of a manager, which is someone who's more of a listener than a talker and really seeks to draw out the intelligence and bright thinking and hard work of others, more so than being, you know, kind of the dominating force. That feels a little like last century.
Speaker 1:Russian being a manager? It really does. And Kelly says too true, the worst one when first married. So when are you going to get pregnant?
Speaker 2:Yeah, stick to your own, lane, right Row your own canoe.
Speaker 1:So how would you say then, what advice? Because we are talking about that time of year where we're getting together more and where it's just a busy time, whether it's with friends and other people. What advice would you give and whether it was an improv tool or wherever it came from on, if I were meeting up at a family event and I'm just like Laurie, so you changed jobs again, you just, you know, just going down that like nitpicky, like you said, seeing you through the lens of deficiency. So how do you?
Speaker 2:actually handle that In that setting. I think it might be wise but folks see what you think of this to deftly shift the topic away from such deep personal things to maybe something like a lot of us, in the climate that we're in, natalie, because it's very cold in the winter, we plan a getaway during winter months to somewhere warm. So maybe you want to just shift the topic to hey, cousin Bill, did I hear right that you are planning to go to Cabo San Lucas in February? Tell me about that. Like, just shift it to something that's very positive, neutral, you know, get the attention off you, because that just doesn't feel good. It's so unexpected to be suddenly thrust under a microscope and, frankly, it's none of cousin's business. That's my opinion.
Speaker 1:And you probably would welcome talking about. I know in my experience often you know, people are more than happy to talk about what they have going on and what they have coming up, and you're right, that's a great tool to kind of deflect that. When are you going to get pregnant? Or you know those things that maybe you're not, you know, you're just not that interested in talking about.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, too, in certain family situations or with friend groups, there is a history there and sometimes I think certain people let's call them like you know maybe where that toxicity comes from just want to go right into those topics and just poke the bear about it. And so you're saying, being able to kind of like it seemed like it's a skill that could be practiced to just move on to something else versus giving them the reaction that maybe they even want. Because I think, I feel that people who are truly we all have bad days, we all sometimes say stuff we absolutely regret in a moment of anger or whatever, but then you have the true toxic people who just have that toxic energy and their golden life seems to be to try and muddle up yours as much as possible.
Speaker 1:And is being able to put some separation there. Can you give more examples of how you do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I already gave one suggested topic to switch to. If you, you know, need like a little bit of time before you can just get out of their space. Other topics, super easy, would be movies, or sometimes I will change the topic to has anybody seen anything worthwhile lately on Netflix or Amazon Prime? Once again, get them talking, get yourself off the hot seat, off of being interrogated and people will commonly have that or hobbies See the theme here. These are all subjects that are innocuous. They're not going for the jugular on anyone, and you know. But let's face it, you know, if you really felt like you were at your wit's end, you need to lay down some sass. Yes, I was trying to get that personal with me. I might say hang on, I'm just going to go to my bag and get the results of my latest colonoscopy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll be right back.
Speaker 2:I mean, and just try to like get them to see like dude or do that Like this is so intensely personal, Can you just back off? Yeah, I see once a year. But thank you, Natalie, I do think pretty much all of us have some assortment of characters like that in our extended family or in your neighborhood. I'm just from some people that like neighbors, that just like open your door and come in and just like put themselves on very intimate terms with you and hey, if you've agreed to that and that's just part of the social contract in your immediate neighborhood, that's cool. But I think a lot of us have boundaries. It's not too much to ask Can I maintain a boundary? That would be another funny thing to say too. If it's not too much to ask, would it be all right if I maintained a boundary? That would be so funny to someone. But I was like giving them a dose of their own medicine. I don't know.
Speaker 1:It would be. I like that way of handling it because, instead of getting it into it with them and having an argument or a discussion about again through this lens of your deficiencies, it changes the subject and then it doesn't mow your water, it's you have. I've come to learn that really, boundaries are more about just that. It doesn't even need to be. I mean, you do boundaries, how you do boundaries For me. I find, just by putting in there, without even saying like that's a boundary for me, it probably helps that I don't have a lot of boundaries. It's in terms of what I want to communicate about or what I'm willing to communicate about. There's so much, but there are some things definitely that's like okay.
Speaker 1:I've also learned that it's good to have those boundaries. It's good to like it's okay for me to have parts of my life that are off limits from whoever I decide that, who those people are. So Kelly says do you think some of this lack of boundaries is a result of the world of Facebook, et cetera? People share too much. Ooh, kelly, let's get into that, let's get into that. What do you think about that? Oh, that is powerful.
Speaker 2:I completely agree with that observation. It gets to be overkill too much T M I right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I'm guilty of a lot of it in real life, but I will stop short of posting a photo of a rash, or here's where I ripped my toenail off.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad that you got out of that habit.
Speaker 1:Now I just text it to people Look at this rash. What do you think that is? I know.
Speaker 2:I can remember one time a human resources person in my prior corporate job this was so beautiful how she worded this I had been producing a monthly newsletter and it was about business topics or product developments for our division of a few thousand people and then we had, by popular demand, a people corner. So every edition of the newsletter we would do a spotlight to learn a little bit about one of our colleagues and what the background is. And someone had shared part of her personal story was that her first marriage. It was sadly a domestic abuse situation and so she was sharing it. To say that I consider to be one of the greatest triumphs of my life that I got out of that marriage with my two boys and I'm now happily remarried On Planet Lory.
Speaker 2:As the editor of the newsletter, I thought that was human and lovely. My HR partner asked me to take that part of her story out and when I queried it she said we respect that this person would like to communicate this aspect of their story. At the same time, we need to respect that some of our readers don't want to hear this part of her story in a work setting. I thought that was a really beautiful way to phrase it because it's not invalidating the person with a sincere desire and willingness to communicate openly. But also, is everyone's catchers-mit open to receive that ball when you throw it at them? And not everybody's are, and that's all right.
Speaker 1:We're saying that's all right. Yeah, that time and place, because that's the other thing that I have come to learn is it's not always, maybe, what I'm talking about, or because I've had the tables turn where I'm the one being interviewed and it's for, maybe, a community newspaper, something not related to some things, and it's more kept to the community, just right, in my community, where I live and whatnot, and I have been guilty of throwing out something like, well, because of this is this and this is why I do this. It's sometimes a bit overwhelming for them because I have just like again, I have a willingness to communicate about quite a lot and not recognizing that, okay, this is not the venue for that. This specific publication, it's more just like the fluff and the good stuff and, to your point, that's just not what their audience is looking for. Whereas a different publication or maybe on a different podcast, it would be extremely relevant to have the freedom to go ahead and talk about those things in a completely free way, because people know if I'm tuning into whether it's this other podcast or other YouTube channel. You know what it is. And with social media, this, and it's hard for me to say like, oh, people just overshare it because I have been so. I have been guilty of it at times, but it desensitizes us in a way to those boundaries and one of my struggles has been not is in going. Okay, I'm okay with talking about this, it's fine, I'm not embarrassed to buy it or I found it fascinating and I want to hear more about what you think about this. But not always stopping and thinking or recognizing does the person I'm talking to. Are they okay with it? Is it a boundary for them to talk about these things?
Speaker 1:The topic that maybe I'm interested in, because I am not fabulous at the small talk and it's part of why I love getting together with very small groups of people, you know, one on one, maybe, like there's three of us, and I do love. I love where I can meet a lot of different people and going to things. But I'll get a little anxious because all the things I think I shouldn't ask about are all the things that are in my head. I'll go to a fundraiser, something just as for in fact it's happened not that long ago and I walk in and I'm like, okay, don't talk about this, don't talk about that. And then I'm like that's all I want to talk about. It's all I can think about. Anyone want to talk about aliens and it's not. It's just not, it's not.
Speaker 1:Helpful as well, it's finding that, you know, finding that balance and, for me, recognizing that just because I'm okay having the conversation, the person I have cornered at a party or at gathering might not be okay talking about that topic and living where we live, we live in, we live in Minnesota, we're in the Midwest, the social contracts and the etiquette is different, and when I first moved to Minnesota, the question I would get very often was are you from the East Coast? Oh, because you were direct or bold, because I was directed, not recognizing that. Okay, there's like sometimes you got to warm people up a little bit. Sptv fan. I think it's more about growing up in family or community where some people were regularly crossing boundaries. That's a good point too. Right, where you come from and how your family was. What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:I think that is very true. I grew up with something of a dichotomy, I think that my father was a career carpenter and foreman and outdoorsy and my mom was a surgical nurse oh wow. And our mom was pretty boundaryless and we learned from an early age to not ask her at the dinner table what she did at work that day, because she would tell us in literal, gory detail which, as kids, we thought that was sort of cool, you know, learning about open heart surgery and what that looked like or entailed.
Speaker 1:But maybe not over macaroni and cheese.
Speaker 2:I mean, but our dad would have to like excuse himself and just you know he would get a gag reflex going. So yes, I think over the years I began to appreciate privately different family members. They would pull my mom aside at events and she was very generous about it and they might pose, you know, some body issue or just something. You know that was a lot more personal.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was a private way. And then we look at this rash and very comfortable talking with her, like I say, she was generous about it, but it wouldn't be something that we would ever, you know, know about. It could be kept, kept privately. So I think that's probably a good way to address. It is, if someone needs or is seeking something that you've got intimate knowledge of, then pull them aside.
Speaker 2:I have a cousin who's a doctor and it just happened over the summer I actually was working for a healthcare company and just something that was just gnawing at me. I was so glad when he was in town and so I just said to him at one point during the party I'm like no pressure and not right now, but at some point could we go down to the fire circle just the two of us, because I have to ask you something in your doctorness. Just a query I have like help me to get my head around this. Then, sure enough, a little later on he's like hey is now a good time and we had a wonderful, just more intimate type talk, private. Nobody else needed to hear about it, whatnot? I was so glad that I could get that interaction with him and just have him weigh in. That's the way to address it too, and hopefully if you are that person at a family function, it's a compliment. I'm sure he was very glad to lend a near and tell me his thoughts. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that, and what I find so fascinating about your story again, is how the different things that you've done with writing a book, with being an actress, with being a speaker, being in the corporate world in so many different ways it really sounds like each of these experiences have helped to guide you. I love how you use improv in your personal life. What a fun thing for people to be able to take an improv class. Is that how it started? You took a class.
Speaker 2:Yes, I went to a Lunch and Learn. This is a good reminder in your work life or in your community. If you ever have a chance to go to a Lunch and Learn and just get a little nugget of something, it can really reap huge benefits. Because it was a Lunch and Learn with the Brave New Workshop Theater, which is a long, long time comedy institution in the Twin Cities and very well known around the United States. They were demonstrating how improv principles could be used in a business setting. Wow, I thought, dang, this is cool. It's like they're taking over corporate America with theatrical principles. Sign me up. Do you remember what some of them were? Well, just the willingness to say yes to your partner and the willingness to embrace whatever shows up. Because commonly, if you've been to an improv show or watched the TV program who's lying is it anyway? Improvisers get suggestions from the audience. That really demonstrates we truly don't know what's coming. It's just like a family gathering.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very similar, yes, metaphorically, like your typical family gathering. And the other thing about improvisation, I would say is that it helps you to foster a quality that I can only characterize as hospitality, in that when you are hosting and you have a viewpoint of providing hospitality, you are kind, you are patient, you are looking to create ease and comfort for the other person, and so that's something that we can bring to our networking and connections. Is, how can I make things easy? I was doing a book signing in Alabama one time and this gentleman stood in line older gentleman and I don't know if this was right or wrong, but when he is his turn to come and talk to me and have me sign a book, he grabbed my hands and he started talking to me about. I am like you.
Speaker 2:I also worked in a large corporation in financial services and, in fact, I am a subject in a Netflix TV series right now about criminality because I ended up going to federal prison for financial fraud. So I did time in prison and the improviser in me, natalie, as he's holding my hands, I looked at him and I said, haven't we all? I just wanted him to feel completely at ease and, just like I am honoring what you are willing to share with me. And then, of course, we talked further and I clarified I'm really to date. The day is young. I have not spent time myself as a convicted felon white collar crime in a federal prison, so you can relate to what he was saying. I wanted to practice good hospitality and I just wanted him to know because it was so vulnerable. I was just trying to convey to him as a human being you're not alone, I'm under way. I haven't done time in prison myself, but I can employ my imagination and I could say like, maybe metaphorically, we've all been in different prisons of our own. Maybe that's really what was going on, but we became great friends.
Speaker 2:He's amazing and, yes, he is prominently featured in a Netflix series and he's written books. I mean, his name is Aaron Beam, the great, great, lovely part of his story. His sentence was three months and he was in kind of like a country club type person, but he's written a couple of books with professors on business ethics and he has devoted his life and he speaks for free. He goes all over the country to university business schools to talk about how truly in the real world, challenging it can be If you are in a crucible of like such enormous stress. He was the CFO at a publicly held company, so they were getting so much pressure from Wall Street investors to keep upping their numbers, and the then CEO convinced him that they should fudge their numbers to appease Wall Street. And so it's just. It's a beautiful story and a story of protection.
Speaker 1:That is an interesting story and I love the way that you handled that and helped him feel acknowledged. It was just so beautiful. I probably would have said, did you make a shang? Like what was your experience like? Because I would be genuinely like, oh yeah, the food. Like, talk about this, tell me about your prison time. Like I want to know. I'm here for all of it. Do they have gluten free options? Yeah, no, I didn't. I'm sorry. The yard Did you have to pick like a group of people to align yourself with? I love this, lori, and people can pick up your book Protege Power on your website. For sure, protegepowercom. I'll have a link to that in the show note. You can learn more, too, about Lori and the different things that she does and how she brings all of these worlds together and, I believe, has a ton of fun doing it. So thank you so much for being here and sharing. It's just. I think we just need more of these different ways to manage and work through these situations, but without just blowing up and losing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, most of us have done that and see how well that turns out. So, natalie, it has been a complete pleasure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a pleasure. She will be back. Thank you for catching us in the live and if you're catching us on the podcast, thank you too. If you haven't already, please like this video and subscribe to the channel, otherwise I will talk to you later.
