Episode 71: The Protein Myth: Are We Being Scammed by the Food Industry?

In this episode of the Pound of Cure Weight Loss Podcast, Dr. Matthew Weiner and registered dietitian Zoë dive into some of the most talked-about topics in the world of weight loss, nutrition, and healthcare innovation.

They unpack the growing influence of AI in healthcare — including how it powers the Sage AI Dietitian in the Pound of Cure app — and why AI may be the future of accessible, personalized nutrition support. They also break down the "protein obsession" sweeping the food industry and explore why more protein isn’t always better, especially when it’s coming from ultra-processed sources like whey protein bars and shakes.

This episode also tackles:

• The real role of exercise in weight loss vs. maintenance
• Why nutrition science is still a “young” field
• How cultural bias and celebrity opinions distort the conversation around GLP-1 medications like Ozempic
• And what we can all learn from the latest obesity and metabolism studies

Whether you’re post-op, on GLP-1s, or just trying to make smarter nutrition choices, this episode brings nuance, compassion, and clarity to a space often dominated by judgment and diet culture myths.

Download the Pound of Cure App today! Free on the app store.

Transcript

Zoë (00:20)
Hello and welcome back to the Found of Cure Weight Loss Podcast. I am here with my co-host Dr. Weiner, of course. Hey, Dr. Weiner.

Matthew Weiner (00:23)
day.

How are you doing, Zoe?

Zoë (00:30)
I'm good, I'm a little toasty. It's a little hot up here, but I'm doing good.

Matthew Weiner (00:34)
Yeah,

you're in Vegas right now and what is it about 115 degrees 110 degrees?

Zoë (00:41)
107,

107, so get in the close. You know that yesterday, the Phoenix area broke the record for the hottest ever recorded temperature in August at 118.

Matthew Weiner (00:43)
Yeah, that's so bad. Yeah.

Oh my god, 118 is so hot.

Zoë (00:59)
Yeah.

I was out there watering some plants we were getting, we were getting ready to catch a flight and I was out there watering our plants in the back before we leave. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, this is, I'm not ready to break out in a full on sweat right now. Different.

Matthew Weiner (01:15)
I mean,

you know, the dry heat, is a thing. Like, I definitely sweat a lot less here than I did in Michigan. But that's rough.

Zoë (01:23)
Yeah.

we've been seeing a lot of emergence with

AI lately, I've been seeing so much and admittedly, I've been falling for some of the cute like, bunnies jumping on the trampoline caught on the rain camera at night and I sent it to my sister like, my gosh, this is so cute. Like, that's AI. I was like, my gosh, of course.

Matthew Weiner (01:31)
Yeah.

Right, right.

That was a big

video. Supposedly it was the very first viral video completely created by AI that people thought was real.

Zoë (01:58)
well, at least it wasn't just me.

Matthew Weiner (02:00)
No, I mean it was, this was, people talked about this as like a real, like this is a real hair wringer of all of the kind of craziness we might have to deal with. Bunny's jumping on a trampoline, who cares? Like what's the political ramifications of that? But a politician saying something.

that that politician never said going viral and then what's true and what's not, you know, and so a lot of people talked about that and you know, every, I love AI. I'm totally obsessed with it. I am, I'm a super techie and I write computer code and I've really just kind of fallen in deep with AI because I see an amazing potential for it to fix our broken healthcare system. And that's really what we're trying to do with our new smartphone app. ⁓

Zoë (02:22)
That's crazy.

Matthew Weiner (02:51)
and they just released GPT-5. And so this is interesting. So I don't know if you even know this, but the one thing we've been struggling with in terms of the app is we've been concerned because if you are a bariatric surgery patient in the first three months and you can put that into the app.

it will give you advice as if you're like six months or a year out. And that's been a little concerning because obviously we don't want someone who had a sleeve a week ago eating some chicken. And Sage didn't quite know that. And so I upgraded the model to GPT-5. So the way it works with Sage, it's not just chat GPT, we've taken all of our algorithms and books and videos. And really, there's a lot that we've done to kind of shape

and shape it into the pound of cure approach. So if you go on chat GPT and ask questions, you're get very different answers than you would get through Sage. But I just upgraded the model, because we'd given it tons of instructions to teach it how to differentiate between immediate post-op and long-term post-op. ⁓ And then I just upgraded the model and boom, it started answering correctly.

Zoë (04:02)
Really? Okay.

Matthew Weiner (04:03)
Just by, like

we had everything, we did everything right when we set up the model, but it just, the LLM couldn't get it. But as soon as they upgraded the model, because it's much smarter and it's able to understand instructions and use tools like searching through the database to find when your surgery was ⁓ much more accurately. So that's exciting. So we kind of upgraded Sage without really having to do any work on our end. ⁓

Zoë (04:26)
That's great.

We were banging our heads against the wall for that.

Matthew Weiner (04:34)
Right, was really frustrating

because we tried everything and it wasn't for us not pointing it out, but now ⁓ it works really well. please, if you're out there, try it out, test it because with LLMs, it's like every time you do it, it's a little different. But give it a shot. If you're post-op in the first three months, ask Sage, just make sure if she tells you to eat chicken two weeks out that you're touching base with Zoe or me or D-Dripping

Zoë (04:43)
Mm-hmm.

first article comes from the New York Times and the title is, Protein is Remaking the Food Economy. How much do you really need?

so this article goes into about how the obsession of high protein has taken over the food industry. I think we've seen this a lot in our grocery stores and all of the snacks and everything else. And so the recommendation that is...

put out by scientists, it's actually about 54 grams for 150 pound person. So this is about one gram of protein for every two, about two and three quarters pound of body weight, which is way less actually than what I generally recommend. And even, I know that you err on the side of lower protein generally, but this is even a little bit lower than what you would say. Yeah.

Matthew Weiner (05:54)
It is, yeah. Yeah, it is.

Zoë (05:57)
⁓ And so, you the article goes into about how the typical American is now overeating protein, men by about 55 % and women by about 35 % or more. But the thing is that I think there's a misconception here, just among the public, is that if you eat more protein, it doesn't get stored as, you know, like extra muscle or extra muscle building components, it gets converted.

to energy and then ultimately stored as fat if you're overeating it consistently.

Matthew Weiner (06:29)
Absolutely. Yeah.

The other piece that this article, I think, does a really nice job with is following the money.

And so, I mean, that's so important when you're looking at any type of dietary recommendation. And when you follow the money, it almost always kind of explains the recommendation, why maybe the science and the recommendation are often, or what the commercial industry is pushing and the science are a little bit skewed. And so, you know,

Zoë (06:41)
Yes.

Matthew Weiner (07:00)
when you make cheese or you make yogurt or there's this byproduct called whey and for decades they threw it away or like would feed it to the animals, the livestock. ⁓ And so, but then they realized, hey, we can take this whey, it's rich in protein and turn it into protein shakes and protein bars. And so they had this thing, they were already thrown away and now they're making money off of it. And they talked about how

They've tripled the profit from whey protein since the, I think, the last early 2000s when whey protein kind of started to take off. So this cheese making byproduct that they used to throw away, was almost like they had to figure out what to do with it. Now they make money off it. If it was someone like someone came by your house and was like, hey, I'll pay you 50 bucks for your garbage. You'd be like, I'll keep it coming. You know, no problem, easy. And that's really what kind of happened there.

Zoë (07:39)
Mm-hmm.

And now we're seeing like,

where you see cheese flavored powder to add on, it's like has the whey protein in there and you get, you know, protein popcorn and protein water and all these different types of things. And that's all using whey isolate mostly.

Matthew Weiner (08:06)
Yeah.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah, and so that really is a lot of where this is coming from. And so first there's the profit opportunity, then they build the marketing program on top of it, and next thing you know, it kind of pervades our culture, our diet culture, and becomes like fact, like hey, we need a ton of protein. And so I think it really did a nice job of explaining that. ⁓ And that's something, know, that's absolutely real. I completely agree with them on this. But now the question, you know, for those

of you who are out there is, I think the two questions are, should I eat more protein? Is 54 grams enough in a day? And should I drink protein shakes? And that's a tough, these are tough questions. What do you think about this?

Zoë (08:58)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you know, there are always as so much in our conversations is so nuanced, there's a lot more questions I'd want to be asking, right? So if somebody has recently had bariatric surgery, or if somebody's on a GLP one, we want to be hired on protein during that kind of acute weight loss phase. However, even if you're no longer in your honeymoon period or losing as much weight,

But now you've gotten really into the gym and lifting weights and your goal is now to build muscle. You definitely need more than 54 grams of protein a day to build muscle. So I think this does boil down to those processed protein sources. And if we're thinking about the whey as that byproduct and that is now being made into all of these different products, can we shift to the focus?

Matthew Weiner (09:35)
Absolutely, yeah.

Yeah.

Zoë (09:52)
Okay, yeah, maybe we do want more protein or not, who knows, depending on where you're at with your journey and your goals. However, can we shift that focus away from these processed, enriched whey products and more towards the whole foods, maybe less animal

leaner whole food protein sources.

Matthew Weiner (10:12)
Yeah, I think also it's really important to realize that we are omnivores. And if you think about humans, you have humans who eat a diet of almost exclusively protein and fat.

like the Eskimos, the Intuits. ⁓ And they basically live on fish, really. That's a huge component of their diet. There's almost no plant food, very little carbohydrate in their diet. And they're able to live a fairly disease-free life with reasonable health. And then we have other people who exist almost entirely on carbohydrates. In Africa, there's a bunch of civilizations who live on yams and root vegetables is the primary source of calories.

human beings are able to take carbohydrates and convert them into protein, just like they can take protein and convert into carbohydrates and carbohydrates can be turned into fat. ⁓ And so we're able to make different nutrients out of different types of food. ⁓ And so it's, know, even if you don't get, eat 54 grams of protein, you still may, by converting carbohydrates to protein, be able to get enough protein to build muscle and do all those things. And I think

Zoë (11:23)
Mm.

Matthew Weiner (11:24)
We're selling ourselves short by thinking like if we don't eat it, we're not going to get it. if we can't manipulate it, but our bodies are so sophisticated. Now there's a I know exactly what you're thinking. Well, what about essential amino acids, right? Where these are amino acids that you sub an amino acids are the building blocks of protein. And I forget, you know, do you remember how many there are 11 or something like the nine in nine essentially? Yeah. So so ⁓ these essential amino

Zoë (11:47)
Nine, I believe there are nine essential.

Matthew Weiner (11:54)
acids, these are amino acids that you have to eat and if you don't eat them you're going to be deficient in them. And I don't know, I think it's just we don't know the pathway.

We think probably can still be created, but we just don't. That's my theory is that maybe essential amino acids aren't as essential as we've been taught and led to believe. That's a theory. I'm not, know, and I think if we're injecting them intravenously, which is where a lot of these studies came from with TPN, that maybe that it they are essential. But if we eat them, there's through the liver and different

Processing where we are able to make them so I am not sure I fully buy that whole idea that if you don't eat the protein You're not going to be able to get it. That's my two cents ⁓ But it's a complicated topic and I certainly understand it and we do have we sell protein shakes in our office So, I mean, of course we do believe that there is a role for them ⁓ But I think it's really important just to understand this whole piece and Zoe, you know I know you I think you're a little more liberal you with your use of protein

Zoë (12:46)
Mm.

Matthew Weiner (13:07)
shakes and maybe I am but at the same time I kind of I get it I have my thoughts about it but I I also see the other side of that discussion really I don't think we know the answer.

Zoë (13:19)
Well, and that's exactly what I was going to say. Nutrition sciences and research, it's such a young field. And it's also very hard to do high quality scientific studies with nutrition and humans, Because especially for thinking about maybe double blind and having our control group and you can't, you know, everyone has to eat. We need to, and humans are so...

You know, you can't lock them into a room and do everything that you need to do. So that's why nutrition science

young, it's a new science, but also it's very hard to get very concrete evidence with these studies.

Matthew Weiner (13:56)
Yeah, it's the term I

use is blunt. You know, when you have met you're doing a ⁓ randomized double ⁓ randomized double blinded control trial.

on a medication, you can control that. This group gets the medication, this group does not. It's a sharp distinction. But how are you going to take a thousand people and give 500 people this exact diet and make sure that's all they eat and they never break the rules and the other 500, this, mean, when you look at some of these studies, like the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, they were like in the 40s before institutional review boards who determined whether studies were

Zoë (14:26)
Mm-hmm.

Matthew Weiner (14:39)
ethical or not existed. And the landmark nutritional studies literally are like from 1920 to 1950 because you had to do unethical things in order to get anything even remotely scientific. And so that we just we don't know a lot about nutrition for that reason.

Zoë (14:58)
Yeah.

Add in the anecdotal part of, and we actually discussed this on our last podcast on the Q &A segment, ⁓ often times if people are eating what might be considered, according to this article, adequate protein, but maybe by our means lower on the protein end, and they work towards increasing their protein even just a bit to maybe that 80 gram mark or whatever it is.

they tend to feel more satisfied and less hungry and less cravings and that sort of thing. So that doesn't necessarily is the case for everybody. And again, it might be that increase of fiber, it might be some other things going on. But if we're thinking about like, what can help you be successful as well. And if that's what makes you feel like you're more satisfied, then I think that's also something to consider.

Matthew Weiner (15:33)
You know.

I think what you're getting at, is think right on the money, that nutrition is much more of a behavioral science than a physical science, even though there is clearly the non-behavioral component behind it. What really matters is the behaviors and how the food works. Where protein shakes, is it perfect for, in my mind, is that a great choice? Protein shakes aren't gonna make you score well on your calories.

ratio but like I worked with a guy and he was working with dangerous chemicals during the day and he was concerned about eating because he was like coated in these chemicals and he'd be ingesting the okay I get it like that's and and so a protein shake kind of seems like a perfect lunch for this guy rather than grabbing fast food on the way home because he's starving and so where is a protein shake

Zoë (16:44)
Yeah.

Matthew Weiner (16:51)
perfect? No, but it's a lot better and that's something that's really I think a very fundamental policy, ⁓ fundamental value in our Pound and Cure program is not perfect but better. That's what we want.

Zoë (17:05)
I always like

to say there's so much on a spectrum. There's not going to be perfect, but if we can make these little over here is maybe perfect and over here is, you know, whatever, can we make these little shifts towards the spectrum of better? And that's going to ultimately get us where we need to be. And that's making small changes. One other thought I wanted your thoughts on here with this Dr. Weiner is I don't know the name of the study, but the one where they give the two groups of people the chocolate milkshake and they tell one group,

Matthew Weiner (17:13)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Zoë (17:35)
that this is a chocolate milkshake and they tell the other group that this is nutritional protein shake and they actually metabolize it differently based on what they think it is. What are your thoughts on that?

Matthew Weiner (17:47)
I don't know about this

study. Where's this study? This is fascinating.

Zoë (17:52)
Yeah, I think that just kind of goes back to the it's more behavioral and our mindset and our thoughts around

Matthew Weiner (18:00)
I believe, I mean, I totally like that's kind of crazy, but it really, think again,

connects the behavioral to the metabolic science behind it, which I also believe is true. So.

Zoë (18:12)
Mind over milkshakes.

Mindsets, not just nutrients, determine ghrelin response. during the, let's see, result, the mindset of indulgence produced a dramatically steeper decline in ghrelin after consuming the shake, whereas the mindset of sensibility produced a relatively flat ghrelin response. Participants' satiety was consistent with what they believed they were consuming rather than the actual nutritional value of what they consumed.

Matthew Weiner (18:42)
fascinating. Yeah, please, I gotta look at that study. That is a great study ⁓ and I think really that's real. There's so much that you can take from that. so.

Zoë (18:43)
I'll send you the link.

Yeah, absolutely.

All right, good conversation there with that article. So good find on that

Matthew Weiner (19:01)
morning I read the article like, this would be a good one. This would be a good one.

Zoë (19:04)
You're like, sense, sense, sense.

Awesome. All right, next article comes to us from the Washington Post. What causes obesity? A major study is upending common wisdom.

Matthew Weiner (19:17)
So in this study, they used a radio labeled compound that is a very accurate way of measuring people's metabolism.

and they looked across 34 countries. So this was a cross-cultural study and they looked at the metabolism in all of these different cultures. They looked at it in Americans. They looked at it in hunter-gatherers and they tried to determine what the level of calorie expenditure was throughout the day. And I think if you're a Set Point disciple, you know what the answer to this is going to be. And when I read the study, I'm like, well, I know

what they're gonna find, they're gonna find that there's no difference. That the people who spend all day roaming around and walk 20, 30,000 steps will...

not will burn the same number of calories as the person is sitting on their butt all day because you're you basically burn the amount of calories that you eat. If you look just at strict calories, strict thermodynamics that if you you know and for me I more or less over the last 10 years I weigh about the same right. I haven't gained much or lost much weight in the last 10 years. Had some times I went up and down but over 10

10 years, you weigh me 10 years ago, you weigh me now, pretty close. So what that means, let's say I I 2,000 calories, so 2,000 calories times 365 days times 10 years is an incredible, millions and millions and millions of calories. And somehow, I was able to balance the number of calories I took in

versus the number of calories I burned exactly down to the last crumb because if you eat 10 extra calories a day over a year, that's 3,650 calories, that's a pound. 3,500 ish, right? You can argue about the number of calories in a pound, about 3,500. So over 10 years, that's 10 pounds. So if you haven't gained 10 pounds in 10 years,

then you have down to less than 10 calories you've balanced what you've eaten and what you've burned. And so that only works if there's some type of feedback loop controlling it. There's no way we're consciously able to do that. ⁓ But what the consensus of this study, which is I think something we'll all agree on, is that how much you move doesn't affect your calorie expenditure. But at the same time, the hunter gatherers were all thin and the sedentary people were all overweight.

even though they burn the same number of calories. And what it really comes down to is ultra processed foods. And I mean, I think it's like no duh, right? I get that one. ⁓ What was your take from this study, Zoe?

Zoë (22:08)
Mm-hmm.

But

you know, it kind of got my wheels turning a bit because I'm thinking about if you if you, I was just talking to somebody who's on vacation, right? And she was eating a lot of extra food on vacation. And then coming back, she didn't get back to her workout routine right away. She had more sedentary day, but she wasn't feeling very hungry. So she didn't eat as much. And so I think that speaks to how adaptable and smart our metabolisms are. Now that is kind of contradictory to the idea that

Matthew Weiner (22:40)
that.

Zoë (22:45)
know, the sedentary people in this study were overweight versus the hunter-gatherers. you know, that doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't eating as much, but it's maybe they don't feel as much hunger because their body isn't moving as much, but what they are eating is ultra-processed you know, very calorically dense.

Matthew Weiner (23:04)
Right, right. And I think it really, and this is something we talk about a lot too. And I always say that exercise is a great form of weight loss if you're a woman under 30 or a man under 40. ⁓ I think in that age group, exercise, you can lose weight. Now, weight maintenance is a different story. Exercise is amazing for weight maintenance, but for weight loss, exercise is rough. ⁓

And as you get older, you get hurt a lot. And when you get hurt...

then you gain weight. And so that, you know, these are important things to consider. so movement and exercise is a strategy for weight loss. And I'll sometimes see that I'm a 65 year old person comes in and like, well, I really can't exercise. So guess I can't lose weight. No, actually you totally can still lose weight. ⁓ It makes it a little harder, but we're just not gonna be able to use exercise as the method. So.

Zoë (24:01)
And that's

what we talk about too, is that nutrition drives the majority of weight loss, whereas exercise drives, you know, a good amount of that weight maintenance.

Matthew Weiner (24:10)
Yeah. I think the take home message here is exactly that. It's that if you want to work on your weight, put the emphasis, put your energy into nutrition. We only have so much energy. And if you're like, I'm putting 50 % into working out and 50 % into nutrition, would, I'd focus and we do that. Like when someone comes in, yeah, 90, 10, when someone comes in the office, you know,

Zoë (24:33)
80-20!

Matthew Weiner (24:39)
The first step, I don't think I've started someone with exercise as the means of weight loss, unless maybe they're like 20 years old or something, right? But exercise is never the first step in my mind for weight loss. It's certainly something we bring in and for weight maintenance, it is just priceless. mean, priceless. So.

Zoë (25:02)
Yeah.

And I, when I'm working with people, I like to kind of do it a little bit concurrently. If someone's not exercising at all and they are able to, we'll obviously focus on the nutrition side of things for the weight loss. But if we can start in increasing steps or going for a walk each day or just adding in some of that movement, not necessarily for the weight loss driving factor, but for the habit of

Matthew Weiner (25:27)
Yeah.

Zoë (25:28)
moving your body on a daily basis so that we can really lean on it for that weight maintenance and not try to form a new habit when we're no longer getting the positive feedback of the weight loss.

Matthew Weiner (25:38)
Yeah, I think for the stress release and the emotional eating component, it's particularly useful in that group.

Zoë (25:42)
The sleep. Yeah, absolutely. So many studies on the mental health benefits, but we've

done that. We've talked about that on another episode for sure.

Matthew Weiner (25:51)
Yeah,

the article refers to, they talk about total energy is constrained and they call it the constrained energy expenditure model. We call it the set point model, but it's essentially that your body's regulating your metabolism.

And it makes total and complete sense. We're cavemen and cavemen starve to death. And if you couldn't down regulate your metabolism when you, when food was, was scarce, you weren't going to make it very long. And so we've gotten as a species, very good at surviving on very few calories. ⁓ which is why it's so hard to lose weight is because we were actually trying to be able to survive.

Zoë (26:28)
Exactly.

Matthew Weiner (26:33)
not eating much ⁓ without losing too much weight. So our body was designed to prevent weight loss and now we're struggling with weight gain and kind of encumbered by that restriction.

Zoë (26:34)
Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. Our last article to discuss is actually from People Magazine. ⁓ this maybe it's just only online. Yeah. So Sean and Catherine Lowe say the osempic craze is triggering and hard to watch. There is a healthier route. First of all, I don't even know who these people are.

Matthew Weiner (26:55)
I didn't know people were still in magazines. I I guess probably online only. Yeah, online only, yeah.

Yeah.

So I had to read, but they're from the Bachelor. I'm sure a lot of people, Sean, so I guess they're married, apparently. It sounds like a very successful Bachelor connection. You know what I find triggering, Zoe? The word triggering. I find that word very triggering. ⁓ So I'm sorry that Sean and Catherine Lowe

Zoë (27:16)
Okay.

Yeah, I literally... Why do you...

Matthew Weiner (27:39)
have to endure people who live a real life and have to actually go to work and raise children, maybe without as much money and resources and don't have access to private chefs and whole foods, grocery stores and struggle to make it personal trainers and four hours a day to commit to their health routine. I think if everybody out there had that much time, I agree that we would

Zoë (27:56)
personal trainers and nannies and.

Matthew Weiner (28:09)
⁓ that we would ⁓ see a lot less obesity and maybe would not use Ozempic. ⁓ But it's a little triggering to me that these people don't understand how the rest of the world lives. And ⁓ I know.

Zoë (28:23)
It's so tone deaf.

Matthew Weiner (28:25)
I know. you know, the truth is, is if you are living that life, if you are like, you know, have financial struggles or work a job and raise kids and, you know, family and football practice and or baseball and sports and cheer and all of the things that raising kids and have no time and are eating on the run and, you know, wondering how you're going to be able to save for retirement and you can't put those four hours a day into your

personal care, Ozempic is a really good option in that situation.

Zoë (28:59)
Yeah,

I just don't know why they needed to say anything. One quote here is especially triggering to me, is that she warned that society is often prone to taking the easy route. Here's the thing, you talk with patients all the time, I talk with patients every time.

Matthew Weiner (29:03)
I really...

Zoë (29:24)
They're not, this is not the easy way out. It's not for a lack of them trying.

Matthew Weiner (29:29)
No, no, absolutely. I would argue that being on The Bachelor is the easy route.

Zoë (29:36)
Yeah.

Matthew Weiner (29:38)
You know

getting married and basically being an Instagram type influencer and getting product stuff and you know having it all mailed to you that actually sounds quite easy to me and And so I just I think that what we're really you and I are both really bothered by is when naturally thin people judge people who are not naturally thin and who live a different life and You know until you've walked a day

Zoë (29:49)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Matthew Weiner (30:07)
in someone else's shoes, you really should hold your judgment. And it's just a very human thing and social media and the news and everything really, you know, we're so quick to judge. watch someone, look at this one, let me watch 30 seconds of someone behaving at their very worst and let me judge that person as a terrible, awful human being and, you know, let them feel the shame of those 30 seconds of misbehavior. When we've all had 30 seconds,

of misbehavior and we all do things that maybe we wish we didn't and wish we were stronger about. And I think it's just so important that we reserve our judgment for others. Here we are judging Sean and Catherine Lowe, but we're judging them for their lack of, you know, not judging others. So I don't know. But yeah, this stuff is out there. It continues to be out there. It's less, I think, but.

Zoë (30:56)
Yeah.

Yeah,

well, because it's so many people are on the GLP one. so like, why it's so normalized, which is a good thing. like, why would there? Why would we want to be having so many strong negative opinions? You know, if it's helping so many people.

Matthew Weiner (31:18)
Yeah.

These things,

know, people come into my office and they say, well, you know, and I talk to them like, man, this is a perfect candidate for, for a GLP-1. Like this is exactly like, oh my God, it would make the things that they're struggling with. They won't have to struggle with them. It'll work so well. They'll, they'll improve their blood pressure, you know, so many benefits. And then they'll be like, I just don't want to do those, you know, those ozempic shots because I heard so many bad things. Um, and, know, these medications are the closest thing that I've seen in my entire career and probably ever will.

to a miracle drug. And there's so much good that can come out of them and so much happiness and quality of life that they can bring that we need to keep the judgment out of this so that people who are suffering can feel some relief of their suffering without feeling like they're less of a human being or their success is less honor, you know.

is less valuable, is less important, is less earned. ⁓ We need to let people succeed and let them be proud of themselves without judging them.

Zoë (32:27)
Mm-hmm.

The world would be so much better if we were all just lifting each other up than trying to tear down. I think it's a good note to end today's podcast on.

Matthew Weiner (32:43)
Absolutely, for sure.

Alright we will see you guys next time.