Episode 81: How Bariatric Surgery and Nutrition Changed Moira's Life

In this inspiring episode, Moira shares her transformative journey through weight loss, bariatric surgery, and lifestyle changes. Discover practical strategies for sustainable health, the importance of exercise safety, and how combined treatments can empower lasting weight management.

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Transcript

Zoe (00:21)
welcome back

to the Pound of Cure Weight Loss Podcast. We've got a special episode today because we are joined by a patient, Moira. Welcome Moira.

Moira Allen (00:31)
Love you!

Dr. W (00:33)
Bye Moira.

Zoe (00:33)
doing

great. Super excited to chat with you today because you have kind of had this whole trajectory in your journey and you know what we've been talking about lately I found we'll get into that in a minute but I love the conversations that you and I have.

recently about performance nutrition and how to amplify your performance because you've made so much progress. But I'll let you kind of jump in, go back, you know, as far as you need to, but just kind of tell us your story and share with us and the listeners, you know, all about you and your journey so far.

Moira Allen (01:08)
Okay.

Well, I started gaining weight about the age of 30. I was actually very fit up until then and then life just happened and all this stuff and emotionally I just ended up gaining so much weight and every decade I'm like, well, I can't turn 40 and be this heavy. I can't turn 50 and be this heavy and I just kept not losing. And I ended up needing a knee replacement and I went to the doctor and I was too heavy.

And I kind of messed around with that for years and I never quite lost it. And then finally they referred me to you guys ⁓ and I was so excited. And so I didn't wanna do surgery right away. And so I did two years of trying Wigovie and then the ZetBound, but that only took me down 30 pounds and I wasn't surgery ready and my knee was just a mess. And so I ended up doing the gastric bypass last.

February and it was the best thing I ever did. I wish I would have done this all 15 years ago. ⁓ It just really like propelled me into the rate the weight loss and just since then, I mean with the the GOP ones, I lost the 30 pounds and then 50 pounds now with the surgery and I've kind of settled at a spot and I I'm fine with it, but I know I could lose some more but I feel I'm living my best self right now.

I feel like I'm active and maybe my weight isn't the exact where it should be, but I feel good. And I went from a 2X to medium and large clothes and I just feel so, so much better. And I wish I would have done all of this 15 years ago for sure. I feel like I wasted time, but now I'm getting it all back.

Zoe (02:53)
Can you share a little bit more, when you say you feel like you're living your best self, what does that look like for you? What are the things you're doing now?

Moira Allen (03:02)
Well, the things that I'm doing, well, right after I had the weight loss surgery, as soon as I could, I started lifting some weights and doing kettlebell workouts because I was preparing for my knee surgery and it was about six months after I had the gastric bypass. And so I think doing that and doing squats and all these things really helped me prepare for my knee surgery. And it got me back on my bike more and...

our whole family for years and years, we've always been avid bike riders, mountain biking and things like that, which I'm not so much into mountain biking anymore. I'm afraid I'm going to fall now and hurt my new knee. But I mean, we are riding a lot and I'll do baby mountain bike rides. but we ride, you know, I've started actually riding to work, which I do a bigger ride on my way to work. So I've been commuting two days a week and it's only only live about five miles away. But I on the way to work.

Dr. W (03:38)
Me too.

Moira Allen (03:55)
Bypass work. I'll ride about 16 miles out and back and then I have about a four and a half mile ride home So I'm getting some good mileage in during the week ⁓ And our family will do at least one big ride ⁓ You know, maybe 30 miles or something on the weekends and it's just

It's gotten me so much more energized and I sleep better, I perform better at work, I'm more attentive just in general because of the exercise, because I'm eating healthy and things like that. I just feel so much better.

Dr. W (04:29)
Moira, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? You can, how old? Sorry, 57. When did you start this journey? I think it was about two years ago, is that right? Two and a half, three total. And when did you finally say like, oh, this is working?

Moira Allen (04:33)
57.

57.

Three total. Three, yeah.

⁓ When I had the gastric bypass, it really made it feel like I could get to where I needed to be. I just stalled with the GLP-1s and it was frustrating. I I felt great because I lost 30 pounds, but it wasn't, I didn't feel like I was to the point where I was healthy. And ⁓ after having the weight loss surgery, I just feel, I mean, I'm not even taking blood pressure medicine anymore. My cholesterol is down. I don't use a CPAP anymore.

⁓ And these are, ⁓ my gosh, just amazing things in my life. so this last year has been where I've found myself again.

Dr. W (05:33)
Yeah, but it was, the surgery I think was about a year ago, a little tiny bit more, correct? And then about six months later, you had your knee replacement. And then you probably took about two or three months to recover from that. So you really haven't been kind of moving and grooving for maybe only the last three or four months. Is that pretty accurate?

Zoe (05:38)
Amazing.

Moira Allen (05:44)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yeah, because I mean, I got pretty active a little bit, you know, not so much on the bike rides because it was hurting my knee quite a bit. ⁓ And then I had, you know, I had to wait a couple of months with the knee surgery and then it just propelled, definitely, probably in the last four months.

Dr. W (06:10)
Right, but I think that's

a really important point for somebody out there is that this took you two and a half years to get through. And so, you know, when I meet with patients and as we kind of start and the GLP-1s are great, but they've honestly made the process take a lot longer. You know, I'm not saying we should change anything, but I think it's important to understand that there's just, we have more treatments and each treatment takes time. And so we started with the GLP-1s. You were a...

Moira Allen (06:23)
Yes.

Dr. W (06:39)
reasonable responder, but not a super responder. It didn't get you where you needed to go. We see this quite often and at this point, we've kind of developed an algorithm. Everybody gets GLP-1s from the beginning. We kind of filter out the super responders. If you're a non-responder, we kind of move a little faster to surge you. If you're a partial responder like you, we kind of, know, bob and weave a little bit, see what we can do and, you know, we may or may not end up in the OR.

And I think that whole timeframe is just stretched out, especially when you throw a knee replacement as part of the recovery process. And I think that's an important thing for somebody going through this. And there's two really important points. Number one, you can do it. If you're 80, 90, 100 pounds overweight, starting to lose mobility, your orthopedic surgeon's like, I'm not doing anything, there is an answer.

And it will get you in a much better place, but it's not instant. It's gonna take some time. And quite frankly, if you're out there and this story, if you can relate to this story, the time to start is now. It doesn't mean surgery. It means meds, it means nutrition. Get that process going as soon as possible because it is not a fast thing. ⁓ And I think that your story really tells that very, very well. Why don't we switch gears a little bit and

Moira Allen (07:38)
Yeah.

Dr. W (08:01)
and talk a little bit more about your activity, your new nutritional strategies, some of the things that you and Zoe alluded to earlier. I'd love to hear what you've been doing. I'm a little bit out of date on that, so please fill me in.

Moira Allen (08:12)
Well, you know, my husband and I were going on some really long bike rides and I was like, I would eat just normal, know, maybe like an egg and something, you know, ham or something. And I would end up completely bonking. There was one time we rode a 20 mile ride and we were nowhere where you could get off. It was out in the desert. And I had to end up walking my bike back for the last like three miles. And it would be easier to

if you've ever walked a bike, it's easier to ride it super slow, but I couldn't balance on it. I was so depleted of all my energy and stuff. And it was really hard for me to get used to proper nutrition on such a small stomach, or even on the GLP ones, I was having problems with it. And so, know, Zoe got me on a thing where, you know, have a small amount of maybe oatmeal in the morning to get some carbs in there. And I would drink a little bit of a protein shake with it, maybe not even the whole shake.

And then on our drive, wherever we go, or maybe a half hour before we leave, I'll eat a banana or a half a banana. And then throughout the bike ride, ⁓ in the beginning, I would take the little packs of applesauce, because in the past, years ago, you'd use goo packs, and those were pretty hard on the stomach. they're gross, anyway. So I would take a little bit of applesauce, and we'd stop every half hour. And my husband was so like...

protective of me and so same with my son. They're like, hey, it's been half an hour. Hey, it's been a half an hour and they kind of make me stop even though I'm feeling fine, but it's happened a few times where I feel fine and then I get home and I'm shaky and I'm almost dry heaving and I you know, I'm about to hop in the shower, but I have to go put something in like I have to get a sip of applesauce or something. But now I've taken and I take a banana with me. I'll take a protein bar, but usually the

Dr. W (09:53)
Yeah.

Moira Allen (09:58)
the whole fruits have been working a little bit better for me. And it gives me the sugar, the ⁓ potassium and everything to get through it and get back in good shape and not feel so wiped out. Cause then I'm, I'm shocked for the rest of the day almost.

It's hard to rebuild that.

Dr. W (10:16)
Zoe, we see

this a lot where, and we have a lot of patients, I've got a post gastric bypass patient who did a full Ironman triathlon. And on one hand, we're hearing with Moira that you're so much more sensitive to and really have to be a lot more attentive to your nutrition ⁓ while you're doing these activities. But on the other hand, there was no way you were gonna be doing these activities at all.

Zoe (10:19)
Mm-hmm.

Moira Allen (10:24)
Ow!

No.

Dr. W (10:44)
two and a half years ago, right? So, you know, it's a give and take there. You're able to do these amazing things, but you have a lot more requirements. So Zoe, I don't know if there's anybody on the planet who's more qualified than you to kind of address this, but when we're mixing GLP-1s, bariatric surgery, and then performance nutrition, what does that look like?

Zoe (11:06)
Yeah, well I love that Moira told us a little bit about how you you tried the goose that's kind of what we're thinking about like ⁓ You know the cyclist community or endurance athletes in general, you know those Very sugary, you know targeted to endurance athletes. You're getting the sugar some of them half caffeine you you know likely have some electrolytes in there as well, but

After bariatric surgery, your stomach cannot handle that sugar, because that is added sugar right there. That's what it is to get the glucose into your system, into your blood, so that your cells can use that glucose for energy to push through that activity. However, we need to do a little bit of trial and error.

with each individual to see what works for your body and especially as somebody who's had bariatric surgery, going more towards that whole food approach is, I want to say nine times out of 10 going to be the way to do it. And so, you know, like you said, Moira, like the little applesauce pouches or those, you know,

no sugar added, but you're getting the natural sugars. But I like those because they're easy to eat. You can squeeze them. You can keep them in your pouch. They're easily digestible. Yes, you're getting some fiber in there, but it's not going to be as fibrous as if you're crunching on an apple. And then, you know, same thing with the banana on your way there. Again, trying to time your nutrition around your performance, around that ⁓ exercise. So for example,

Moira Allen (12:21)
Yes.

Zoe (12:47)
if you're going to be out riding for two hours, we want to make sure and you've had bariatric surgery, right? So that even more.

makes it important that we have those small frequent feedings throughout the day and making sure that your blood sugar doesn't get too low. But if you're only fueling with protein, your body is not going to get the energy that it needs to successfully complete that exercise in helping you feel good. So like you mentioned, having something with both carbohydrates and protein as a nice solid breakfast. Now, of course, this depends on what time

you are actually going to go out and do that ride or that workout because, you know, it's March and we're in Arizona. We've had the hottest March, you know, in a long time. potentially you know we're not waiting to the middle of the day, but you know, maybe more so in more temperate climates or whatever. But if you have that time, we want to have a good breakfast beforehand, you know, potentially wait two hours and to really get that digested.

Moira Allen (13:34)
Haha!

Zoe (13:56)
Then 30 to 60 minutes or even a little bit less, like if you're on your drive there, having a small amount of those easily digestible carbohydrates, that's where that half a banana comes in or one of those, you know, fruit puree pouches. And then while you are on your ride, you have to figure out what works for you for more than 30 minutes.

For some people that can maybe is every 45 minutes, but I would rather you do a small amount more frequently to keep your blood glucose levels stable and avoid those big dips that are harder to recover from. And then afterwards making sure we are replenishing not just those carbohydrates, but also getting some protein in to help with muscle protein synthesis and electrolytes to really help rehydrate as well as the plain water of course.

Dr. W (14:44)
I think another piece that especially gastric bypass patients have to deal with that, you know, even, and we'll see this with GLP-1s too, and we'll see it little bit with sleeve patients, but it's reactive hypoglycemia. And especially in that first year or two, you know, the problem with the commercial products, as Zoe mentioned, is that they're high in sugar. And if you're an endurance athlete and you're running 26 miles, then consuming sugar along the way is not a

I think there's other strategies too, but that's a reasonable approach. The problem is, is if you've had a gastric bypass and you consume some processed sugary food, it's gonna spike your blood sugar and then it's gonna bottom out. And I almost wonder if maybe that's some of the symptoms that Moira was describing when she was walking her bike is that she had really low blood glucose. And so like Zoe talked about, the perfect ⁓ choices there are some protein.

And then also ⁓ like a softer, easier to digest fruit. Tennis players, the big thing with tennis players is bananas. And I think bananas are like a perfect endurance athletes ⁓ food choice because it's got the fiber, it's not gonna cause reactive hypoglycemia, but it's got enough sugar and carbohydrates that it's gonna fuel you and help you keep your blood sugar stable. Another thing that really works well for

gastric bypass patients and really all patients for blood sugar stability is beans or legumes. And things like dried peas, dried chickpeas, something along those lines as a snack that you could pack would also make a great choice because the carbohydrate that's in these, in beans and legumes is a straight chain, not a branched chain. So the enzymes can't break it down because it breaks it down from the ends. And so there's only two ends to a straight chain, but a branched chain can have hundreds of ends.

⁓ And so beans or dried chickpeas or things like that are really important to keep the blood sugar stable and prevent that reactive hypoglycemia that bariatric patients are really susceptible to. But I love that you're doing this stuff. That's the coolest part. You're going on a 30 mile ride when probably three years ago the idea of going a few miles was just overwhelming.

Moira Allen (16:55)
Yeah.

Totally overwhelming, definitely. And you know, one of the other things, I like the idea of the peas because I do munch on dried peas at work and I should take them on a ride when we stop, you know, at a halfway point because every now and then I'll pack, I'll get like a real high grain piece of bread and I'll put ⁓ like some no sugar peanut butter on that and I'll have that at like the halfway point and

Dr. W (17:05)
Yeah.

Moira Allen (17:29)
So like we did this ride a couple of weeks ago and it was like a charity ride type of thing. And when we got to the very end, at the one end, we all had a half a peanut butter sandwich and then rode back and it was just enough to get us back and it was amazing, yeah.

Zoe (17:44)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. W (17:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. You said something else too that I thought was really, really important and I related to it because I've made the exact same decision. So a couple of years ago, I got into mountain biking here in Arizona. I literally could ride out of my driveway and do this amazing ride that people would travel to be able to take. then one day I was kind of going down and cruising and I flipped over my handlebars.

Moira Allen (18:12)
done that. I've done that.

Dr. W (18:13)
Managed to get my feet down.

I mean I wiped out like it was a wipeout It was not like a kind of a fall. It was a total wipeout and at 53 You don't you know, you don't bounce the way you do in your 20s and 30s Thankfully, I wasn't injured But that was the last aggressive bike ride I ever took I said that was a sign you're done You can't be breaking your arms or your legs or anything. And so

Moira Allen (18:21)
Yeah.

Dr. W (18:40)
You also have made a very similar decision to not get injured. And I think that is so important with exercise. Injury is your number one enemy. And I truly have seen more people gain weight from exercise than lose it. And sometimes people look at me like I'm crazy. Like, what are you saying? You shouldn't exercise? Of course you should exercise. I love exercise. Exercise is critical.

Moira Allen (18:43)
Yeah.

Dr. W (19:09)
ever, especially as you get older, exercise is a pretty crappy way to lose weight. ⁓ It helps with your heart, with your mood, with your mobility, prevents dementia, prevents cancer, heart attack. I mean, it helps you in a million ways, but exercising to lose weight typically results in over-exercising, which then causes injury, which then causes weight gain. And that story I have heard.

over and over and I swear I hear that story once a week in the office. And I think that is a really, really important thing. I love bike riding, especially kind of, you know, not crazy bike riding like you're doing. It's beautiful, you're out there, you're with your family. I mean, it is good on every level. And you're also very, very unlikely to hurt anything. It's good for your knee, it's good for everything. You know, your muscles may be sore, but your joints probably aren't when you're done. And that's also really important to be mindful of.

Moira Allen (19:41)
Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. W (20:07)
that muscle soreness is good, joint soreness is bad. ⁓ And so I think that's also really important. When you choose these activities, don't get hurt, because as soon as you get hurt, you just took years off of your ability to do that, you know? So.

Moira Allen (20:24)
Yeah,

the recouping at my age is way too, you know, recovery would be too long, you know.

Dr. W (20:30)
Yeah. All right, so Zoe, I just lost 50 pounds. I've been pretty sedentary for a while as a result of my weight. How do I start?

Zoe (20:31)
you.

Well, if you've been here before, you know I'm the queen of baby steps. So, you know, I want to first know, where are we starting? Are starting completely sedentary, not doing anything? My first step is start with walking. I was talking with somebody earlier today who is not able to walk. So we set a goal around following along with a YouTube video for 10 minutes a day of seated.

Dr. W (20:45)
You

Zoe (21:08)
arm exercises, you don't even need any hand weights, just getting your blood flowing in that way. But if you're able to walk, walking is the easiest, most accessible way to get started. And I don't expect you to go from a thousand steps a day to 10,000 steps a day, but can we just make it the goal to, every day I'm going to...

walk a couple laps around the backyard potentially if that's really where we're starting and then build up from there and then you know hopefully then we are able to maybe go for a walk most mornings or you know whatever in the day that it works for you or if you don't have the time because a lot of people struggle with having that time to dedicate

can we do, we've talked about it before on the show, what I like to call movement sprinkles, where maybe it's two or five minutes a day, but you have three of them sprinkled in throughout the day. So you go and you pace around your office if you're on a phone call, or you take the long way around to get the other bathroom on the other end of the hospital type of thing, or another patient that we have took the... ⁓

the garbage can out of her office. So now every time she has to throw something away, she has to get up and and go take it somewhere else. So movement sprinkles are something I think everybody should be implementing anyway, because it's a good way to just kind of increase that non-exercise activity thermogenesis, also called NEET, just the your daily kind of activity. ⁓ But then if you have a really solid walking or biking or something along those lines ⁓ in terms of the aerobic exercise, Moira, I wanted to ask you more about your

strength

training, but that would be my next step is can we add in some resistance training? And that doesn't mean you have to go to the gym and spend an hour lifting free weights the whole time. And in fact, if you are just getting started, I would recommend starting with body weight, starting with bands or resistance bands or free weights at home, following along with a YouTube video. If you're able to get a personal trainer or leverage one of those free introductory personal training sessions that most gyms have, not necessarily to get a really hard workout.

Moira Allen (22:49)
.

Zoe (23:17)
but to ask the questions of how do I use this equipment? How do I have proper form? Can you make sure I'm doing this safely? Because just like Dr. Weiner was mentioning, doing the exercise safely and what in accordance to what your body can handle so that you can progress in a safe way without being injured, that's more important than, you know, busting your butt for an hour and feeling really sore and then not being able to walk for the next couple days, which I've also had many conversations with patients about.

Moira Allen (23:47)
you

Zoe (23:47)
that.

Dr. W (23:49)
for sure. All right, well what's next for you Moira?

Moira Allen (23:54)
I'm just going to keep on going how I'm doing. you know, if I end up losing some more weight, I'm going to be happy with that. where I'm at now, I feel like I've not that I'm just quitting, but I feel good at this way because I want to really work on building some more muscle and just getting healthier all together. So it's not necessarily about the weight number.

but I just want to be even healthier than I've gotten over this last year. And I take advantage of... ⁓

Dr. W (24:24)
Are you still taking?

Go ahead, keep going.

Moira Allen (24:28)
I take advantage of my, you if I'm on a call at work where I'm just listening to something, I will get out my weights and I'll do my arm weights. I'll do some kettlebell swings. I have a stair stepper under my desk and I can step on my stair stepper and you know, and everybody supports me at my office and they're like, yeah, you're borrows my weights and it's gotten addicting to all of us, you know. Yeah.

Dr. W (24:38)
You

Zoe (24:40)
Yes!

That's great.

Dr. W (24:52)
That's awesome.

Sounds like you're Zoe's disciple there. Those are all the things Zoe really talks about. ⁓ Are you taking GLP-1s?

Zoe (24:56)
Ha ha ha!

Moira Allen (25:01)
Yes, ⁓ still on the Zip Bound.

Dr. W (25:04)
So long as that's fun, what dose are you taking?

Moira Allen (25:06)
the 12.5 I think.

Dr. W (25:08)
Okay, yeah, and so the combination of GLP-1s and bariatric surgery is just, it is so powerful. ⁓ And I said this many, many times, you can say some negative things about GLP-1s, and to some degree they're true. And you can say some negative things about bariatric surgery, and they're true. Weight regain obviously is a big problem with bariatric surgery. But when you put the two together,

There are very few negative things that you can say about it because we just don't see the weight regain. see, actually, the GLP ones are more comfortable, particularly after a gastric bypass because some of the symptoms like heartburn and gastroparesis that we see in patients with a normal anatomy stomach ⁓ are really minimized after a gastric bypass because it just isn't a large stomach for the food to sit in.

and acid reflux is essentially non-existent after a gastric bypass. And so the kind of the most common side effects are substantially minimized. And it's almost like these two treatments are so perfect together. And they result in patients not only being able to maintain the weight loss for a really long time, but feeling comfortable, feeling in control of their weight. And that for me is the

Moira Allen (26:04)
. .

Dr. W (26:33)
probably the single most important thing. When I see a new patient, if there is one commonality that I see over and over again, it's that people feel that their weight is out of control. They're going up and they can't do anything about it. And it's impacting their health, it's impacting their lifestyle, it's impacting their ability to participate in activities they want to do.

And it's a really devastating feeling. I think Moira, when we first met, that's kind of where you were. And your story really tells it. You feel in control of your weight right now. Is that true?

Moira Allen (27:02)
100%.

100%.

Dr. W (27:15)
Yeah, you are not getting on the scale being like, my God, am I heavier? no, what's gonna happen? I'm sure you get on the scale and I'm sure you have your tiny little moments, but for the most part, your weight is not a primary focus. You even said, I'm not even worried about my weight. I'm worried about a lot of other stuff now. And that to me is such a victory. It's so freeing from something that prob-

Moira Allen (27:35)
Yeah.

That's 100 %

what it is. It's freeing.

Dr. W (27:42)
Yeah, you know, the amount of time you were spending thinking, worrying, dealing with your weight before and the amount of time now, you're spending that time out on a bike, right? You know, you're spending that time doing your barbells. So that really, you know, that's to me such an important message is that treatment is possible, you know? And with the combination, it's possible for everybody. People come in my office, 500 pounds.

Moira Allen (27:53)
Yeah, I love it.

Dr. W (28:11)
And they say, I wanna be 220. And I say, all right, great, no problem. Let me show you how. Yeah.

Zoe (28:16)
Yeah.

And I just want to interject that the combination of treatments combined with, you know, how Moira takes the combination of treatment and implements the lifestyle, the nutrition and the exercise, because it can be a perfect combination of treatment. But if you're not also putting in the effort on that side, you're not going to get the perfect result.

Dr. W (28:41)
Yeah, I think that you're 100 % right, Zoe. There are three, three things Moira has done that have resulted in her success. And they all work together with each other. And that's really the cool thing is that the meds and the surgery help the nutrition. It's the nutrition, the meds, the surgery. That is the magic of it all. ⁓ And in fact, a little plug on our app, our app is in beta testing currently. Go lowly.

Moira Allen (28:57)
.

Dr. W (29:08)
.ai, G-O-L-O-L-I .ai for if you want to be a beta tester. You can sign up there and we anticipate probably sometime in April a full release. ⁓ And it is a dramatically different and improved app. We just added exercise logging. So as you were talking about how to get started and ⁓ starting with walking and so you can now add your exercise log to it.

And the really cool thing is the AI knows everything about it. So it knows your exercise, it knows your fluid intake, it knows your food intake, and it can help, it knows your medications, it knows your weight, and it takes all that information and is guided by our program principles and helps you create plans and then even keeps you accountable and uses AI to coach you along. So we're really excited about what this app can do. And we kind of look at it like it's taken our program and

put it into the palm of your hand. please check it out ⁓ and we'll keep you updated as we get closer to our official launch.

Zoe (30:16)
Yeah, absolutely. Moira, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your very inspiring story. I think a lot of people, if they don't relate to where you're at right now, can at least relate to maybe where you were three years ago and feel so much hope and excitement for the future because of what you've been able to accomplish.

Moira Allen (30:18)
you.

Yes, I hope so. Thank you and thank you for everything. Your whole office is just amazing and I

Dr. W (30:39)
Congratulations, Myra, you really deserve this.

Moira Allen (30:46)
I couldn't have done it without every one of you.

Dr. W (30:50)
We're happy to help and I think watching your success, that's why we do it.

Moira Allen (30:54)
Yay.

Dr. W (30:56)
All right, well

Zoe (30:57)
Absolutely.