Breaking the Blocks
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Thanks for stopping by! Life is tough, and I think this podcast might offer you some relief. My aim? To inspire you to overcome some of your own blocks through the inspirational, honest, and at times, downright raw conversations with some wonderful guests, not huge celebrities, regular people like you and I. Let’s see how they have overcome the difficulties in their lives and offer you some advice and more importantly hope.
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Breaking the Blocks
From Struggle to Strength: Chris Marchini's Inspiring Quilting Journey
What if embracing your true identity could unlock a world of healing and self-discovery? Join us in this heartfelt episode of Breaking the Blocks as we sit down with the remarkable Chris Marchini, an inspiring quilter whose personal journey is nothing short of transformative. Chris courageously opens up about his struggles with severe depression and suicidal tendencies, offering a beacon of hope to those facing similar battles. He shares the intimate details and the profound impact of coming out as gay while married, all during a tumultuous chapter in his life.
Navigating the turbulent waters of his Mormon upbringing, Chris shares the challenges of reconciling his sexuality with religious expectations. His story highlights the societal pressures that led to a marriage bound by norms and the liberation he found in breaking free to live authentically. The conversation delves into the complexities of family dynamics, revealing the emotional and logistical hurdles of separating from a partner and co-parenting, while maintaining authenticity in personal growth. Through Chris's narrative, we explore the profound impact of embracing one's identity and finding freedom in authenticity.
Chris's passion for creativity shines through as he recounts how sewing and quilting became vital components of his healing journey. From a childhood interest in sewing to a flourishing quilting career, Chris's story is a testament to the power of creative expression in overcoming personal hurdles. With insights into building a social media presence and advice for navigating life’s challenges, this episode underscores the importance of focusing on self-preservation and living authentically. Chris’s story is a powerful reminder of the resilience of the human spirit and the transformative power of embracing one’s true identity and passions.
Well, hello and welcome back to another episode of Breaking the Blocks. I'm your host, rachel Pierman. My guest today is quilter Chris Marchini, who has been through many changes in his life, and I think his story is very inspirational because Chris talks about the darkness that he faced when he had to make some very big life decisions. How did he make those decisions? How did he come to them? How did he actually see them through? Well, if you listen to this interview, you'll find out, but you'll also hear about his very dark journey into a severe depression, one which ended in some pretty horrendous suicidal tendencies.
Speaker 1:So some very difficult things to listen to, but also hope and inspiration about how, if you're facing some similar challenges or if you're having a tough time in your life, you can overcome those tough times, you can make positive changes and there is definitely a light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes you just have to search for it. So let's see how Chris found the light, made those changes and is now living a positive life filled with a lot of so, chris, is it? It is marcini, isn't it chris marcini?
Speaker 2:marcini marcini.
Speaker 1:You see, I now it's like the italian sayings, isn't it? It's like you never know whether you say the ch is marcini, chris marcini I've tried to figure out like the logic behind it.
Speaker 2:Um, because sometimes like ch is ka or cha and then cch, sometimes is the ch sound, I don't know, so we'll just start there. So markini actually is not the name I was born with when I married my now ex-wife. I took her name when we got married. So so I was born Chris Smith. Very generic, very boring, so I thought there's enough Smiths in the world. So when we got married, I took her last name and since we have kids together that have the last name of Marquini, I just kept it.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting because most men don't take the name of the wife. I mean, I had a battler with my husband because I wanted him to take my last name and he wouldn't. So I said, well, okay, I'll add your name on, but I'm keeping my own name. Thank you very much, um so, but it is interesting, most men don't and you did. But also, of course, then it's your ex-wife and you've kept the name. But I have to say, no offense, that chris, that Chris Marchini, is a little bit more, should we say, glamorous than Smith. Nothing wrong with Smith, because of course I was going to ask you if you had Italian heritage or anything like that, because it's in the name, so that explains that. Yeah, okay, well, chris, whoever you are, it's lovely to have you with me. It's lovely to have you with me in the Break in the Block studio and you and I are going to be working together making one of your fabulous trucker hats very soon, which is very exciting.
Speaker 1:But I came across you because I was talking to the lovely Dee of Pixel Quilts, who has also been a guest on the show, and she said you know, rachel, you need to talk to Chris. You need to talk to Chris because obviously you are a maker, you are a quilter, you're a creative person, but you've overcome some blocks as well. So she said you are the person to talk to, but I'm not going to put too much pressure on you here, chris. She said you're a wonderful speaker and a rater, so we need to hear your story. And wonderful speaker and a rater, so we need to hear your story. And apparently you're going to tell it in a beautiful way. So why would Dee be saying this about you? Let's start there, chris, and then, of course, we will talk about how the creative side of things has helped you on your journey. But let's start right there, at the beginning. What is Dee talking about? What is the major block that you've overcome that we can discuss?
Speaker 2:So I think I'm very like open about my story, my past, how everything has come to be. I don't know how much I've told everybody. So I'm gay. I came out almost 10 years ago now. At the time I came out, I was married to a woman. We have two children together. At the time I came out, I was married to a woman. We have two children together, and it was kind of a crazy point in my life.
Speaker 2:So I was born in Oregon in like the Portland suburb area, moved to Phoenix. That's where I met my wife and we had kids and we had a family, we had a house, all of that. My job took me to Colorado and within six months, like neither one of us could stand it anymore and it was just eating away at me because she was miserable there, because all of her family is back in Phoenix and I just like I can't do this anymore. And that's when I finally I came out to her. You know our marriage ended. They moved back tooenix. I had to stay in denver to. You know, do my job and things just for a while felt like everything was falling apart. At the time I wasn't quilting yet, but I was sewing. I had a children's clothing line that I was producing. Um, it was children's clothing out of recycled men's t-shirts, and my kids were little, so it was great like they were my little models. They were my inspiration. But then they, you know, moved away. They moved back to phoenix with their mom. So I kind of lost that inspiration. I was still doing it for a while, but I just kind of fell out of love with it. It wasn't the same as it was when I first started it.
Speaker 2:So I stayed in Denver for a little over two years and during that time is when I met my husband. He moved in with me and it's funny, we met in Seattle when I was there on a business trip and he actually grew up in Oregon as well, about an hour and a half south of where I grew up, and so we were both in Denver. Because he moved in with me when I was still in Denver and we were both miserable, like didn't really have any friends, the vibe was just off. So we decided to move back to Oregon just to kind of reset off. So we decided to move back to Oregon just to kind of reset. You know, we would be near my family, near his family, kind of figure things out and then go from there.
Speaker 2:And just during all that, I was trying to maintain my creativity, but we went from like a one bedroom apartment to a smaller one bedroom apartment and it's really hard to be creative in a small space. It's possible, but some hobbies take up a lot of room. You have, like, your sewing machine. You have all of your fabrics, your materials, patterns, so it was getting really challenging and I think that really ate away at my mental health because I didn't have that creative outlet.
Speaker 2:So in 2018, our lease on the apartment renewed and, as it does, rent goes up and in the Portland area, rent is absolutely ridiculous, like how much you pay for how little you get, how much you pay for how little you get. So we decided let's start looking for a house, like a house to buy, and within 20 days we had an offer out on a house, which was insane and things just fell in line. It was crazy. Once we got the creative space established, like I set it up for my clothing business, like doing all of that stuff, but since I wasn't really in love with doing that anymore, like it didn't get used a lot for the first little bit and then I got into quilting and now it's blossomed from there. I keep track and I think I just labeled quilt number 78 in. What is that?
Speaker 1:six years now, so wow, okay, so that's a lot. That's a lot that happened. I have a question for you, chris do you think, because you've had so many, um, difficult times there and ups and downs and twists and turns and problems, as you've said, do you see yourself as a very driven person?
Speaker 2:Yes, I do Like sometimes to a fault.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, have you always had that within you, or is that a skill that you've learned of late?
Speaker 2:I think I've always been that way, like I remember as a kid doing like craft projects, or I had something in my head that I wanted to do or make and I would find a way to make it happen one way or another, like once it was in my head it had to become reality. So I've always been that way, yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's go back to.
Speaker 1:let's go back to the beginning, OK, so because, you know, we've kind of very casually slipped it in there. Well, I got married and I had a wife and I had children, and then I left and I got married to a man. So I've got a friend. At the moment he's 19. He's my daughter's friend and he is definitely telling me. I don't know which way I am going to go yet in terms of whether I'm going to be gay or bisexual. I can't quite decide. How did you feel in your earlier life, chris, because obviously there was a switch in sexuality here. So you know, did you always know that there was a bisexual element to your sexuality, or so like I've deep down inside me known I was gay since I was probably about 10.
Speaker 2:But I so I grew up mormon in the, the mormon latter-day saints faith, whatever, and that's very much frowned upon. I know it's kind of gone back and forth in recent years, which is really weird to me, but it's fine, they can do whatever they want over there. I have nothing to do with them. But growing up, like when I first started thinking like I'm different than the other boys at school, I didn't really feel comfortable asking my parents about like what is this that I'm feeling? And it was just through like really through like gay jokes that I even learned what gay was. And I did know growing up that my mom was very much opposed to it. My mom was very much opposed to it. Every time something was on the news about like pride celebrations or anything like that, she'd have some kind of comment about it. So all I knew was, oh, that's bad. I didn't know like a lot about like sex and sexuality.
Speaker 2:Like I was 10, I was little, I just knew that I was different than the other boys. I liked pretty things, I liked sewing and crafting. I did not like sports, I liked hanging out with girls. But I didn't like feel attracted to girls Like they were just like my friends. I don't think I've ever officially left the Mormon faith. I did tell them off one time when they called me, so maybe they took me off, I don't know.
Speaker 1:When I interviewed Ben Millett, he said that you have to write a letter to them to say I'm now leaving To remove you from the records?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I never did that, but I got really frank and snarky with the last one that called me and they haven't called me since, so maybe they got the hint, I don't know. I also changed my name, so that may have done it. But I stopped going to church when I was probably around 20. I never, looking back, my entire life, never felt comfortable. Going to that church Every Sunday was a fight, because I didn't want to go and I didn't feel these feelings that everyone was talking about, like feeling the Holy Spirit and the presence of God and whatever. Like I just like okay, I don't know what you're talking about, I don't feel that, and so I just kind of stopped going.
Speaker 2:I then, very shortly after, met my wife and she is Christian, not Mormon. So we got married in a Christian church. We were going to church for a while. We kept going. We had our first child, we were still going and I think by the time we had our second child, it was just too taxing on us to go out there every sunday, so we just kind of slowly stopped going to that church and when we moved to colorado, like we never found a new church, so it just stopped altogether at that point. Now I'm like almost anti-rel, anti religious in my current state of being.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people are lately, are I say lately? I think a lot of people in the last three years are definitely going through a kind of I'm going to use the word spiritual awakening, but you know that's what people are likening it to. So people are finding themselves, they're finding their kind of higher selves, they're finding what they want to do in their lives and a lot of people are changing their lives. I know you've said that you're you're anti-religious. So has that come around because of your upbringing and kind of all of the restrictions that were placed upon you, so you want nothing more to do with religion? Is that? Is that what it is?
Speaker 2:I think that has a lot to do with it, um, but I have found for me personally, I'm happier not having a religion lead my life. I feel like I am in charge of my life, my presence in this world, how I relate to others, interact with others, what I do on a day-to-day basis is 100% my own decisions. I don't have some higher being or organization telling me what I can and cannot do with my life, and that has been very freeing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the difficulty has come into society with the polarization, I think, of all the different religions and how you know if you're not in this religion. Sometimes you can be deemed to be wrong and I feel that's a shame because actually I think we're all entitled to follow our own beliefs, our own religions, our own God's spirits, whatever you want to call it. But I can understand if you've been from that background. It's quite polarizing. But I want to take you back to when you said you know you married your wife because in the beginning part of the interview you were saying to me I think I knew since I've been 10, that I was gay. So how did the marriage to your wife come about? Because if you knew you were gay, I mean, what was that? A kind of peer pressure? Was it a parental pressure?
Speaker 2:I definitely felt pressure to get married, have kids, have a family, be normal. So we met at a bar. I was my friend's like not chaperone, but I was her ride to the bar because she was meeting up with one of her friends from high school and my ex-wife was the friend's ride to the bar. So it was just kind of a twist of fate. We met and we got along really well, Like we were up all night chatting and it was just like you know, she was like my best friend for a bit there and so naturally, the way I was raised and all the pressure from society and my mom and and family and all of that is like okay, this means this is the one, so we're going to get married, we're going to have a family, Like that's just the way things go. So I proposed, I think, within six months of meeting her and we got married about six months later, Very quick. You know, looking back on these things you're like that was absolutely insane of me to do that, but that's just the way it went.
Speaker 2:Like in the Mormon church it's not uncommon for like women to be married at 19 and men at 21, usually because at 19, they go on their mission trip. They come back two years later and like instantly get married and instantly start having children and, looking back, like that is so, so young. I was 22, I think, when we got married and looking back now I'm like I was just a baby. That is so young, I agree, I agree. So, yeah, it was just. It was pressure from everyone to just this is what you do, this is the way it works, and everything just kind of fell in line. I'm like OK, so she must be the one we're going to get married. We had a kid, bought a house, had another kid yeah, All crazy.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, chris, because the way you're talking about the Mormon religion. I just went to Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to host my American retreat and we had an Amish day out and we did have an Amish lady cook for us at the end of the day and we went to see some quilts and it was a lovely day in terms of bonding for all the quilters to sort of you know meet before they entered the retreat. But I did find it quite a strange notion. What came through to me and I wonder if it's a similar thing with the Mormon religions and once again I'm not putting down anybody who has their faith and they believe in it and they live their lives and they're very happy. That is a glorious thing. To be happy in this world is glorious.
Speaker 1:But for me I wonder if there is a fear element and I wonder if it's the same with the Mormons, because I know obviously Mormons and Amish are different in terms of the Amish communities are very much. We stay in our community, we don't have electricity because we don't want to be connected to the outside world. So for me I feel like that's a fear factor. It's like if we stay together we're safe, but actually if you're confining yourself like that. I'm not sure that you are safe because, well, you're not. You're not expressing yourself, are? You're not seeing the world, and the world is a fabulous place. So I think you are restricting yourself. You're not seeing the world and the world is a fabulous place. So I think you are restricting yourself.
Speaker 1:But it's interesting that I almost feel like there's a kind of fear-based feeling around the Amish faith. They're almost frightened of the outside world, frightened that it will change them. It will change their beliefs, their patterns, their thoughts, their societies. Do you feel the same about the Mormon church? I mean, obviously, with Mormons you're allowed to travel I presume you are and mix with different people, but do you feel that there's a similar thing with the Mormon faith?
Speaker 2:I think there is to an extent. It's not as extreme, I think, as the Amish are. I think as like the Amish are, but I do think like cause you're supposed to like marry within the church, so like you would marry another Mormon person and you know you raise your family in the Mormon church. They're very family oriented.
Speaker 1:How does that go, Chris, if you meet someone who's not the Mormon faith?
Speaker 2:my sister actually did that. So she met a man who was not Mormon so they got married. But they didn't get married in the temple, which is like the big goal of being Mormon. So he converted for her, went through all of this process and I think it was two years after they actually got married that they went to the temple together and they did um. They call it a ceiling when you move on to the next existence, you are a family unit and you're together forever.
Speaker 1:So they're very family oriented you start to come to the decision. Maybe, as you said, it was quite crazy what you've done, but so many people do it. Um, you know, certain people do marry young and then realize they're too young. But you had not only married young, you had married someone who, as you said, was your best friend, but you had you. You knew kind of inside that you were gay. So how did you start to face that?
Speaker 1:Because you know, obviously this is breaking the blocks, and one of the blocks we have is being truthful with ourselves. And in order to be truthful with ourselves, that often means we have to leave people behind or situations behind, which is incredibly painful and difficult and very much like when I interviewed Ben. For you, chris, I'm thinking it's your best friend. I don't know how that situation was by that point, but you're leaving that person. The religion you know, the children are involved. So it's a very, very dark time, I would imagine. So how did you begin to navigate that time from your first thoughts, which were I'm not happy, I'm not happy.
Speaker 2:So like it really started eating away at me when she was pregnant with our second child, which was about four years into our marriage, and I just kind of suppressed it. You know, we had our, our routine, we had our daily routines. I would go to work, she stayed home with the kids we had at the time. If we were going to church, we went to church on Sunday, we'd have family dinners and do all this stuff. So there was a lot to keep me busy and distracted from that part of me, distracted from that part of me. And, um, the.
Speaker 2:The breaking point was really, I think, when we moved to colorado, because that changed everything. We didn't have our normal routine. We didn't have our circle of friends nearby that we'd just go hang out with. I didn't have those things to occupy my time and she became more and more depressed because we didn't have that. So she was home all day with the kids with nothing to do, because we didn't know what activities were around us. We didn't have friends to just go hang out with. So we were in our little three-bedroom condo just kind of stuck, staring at each other, and the more miserable she got, the more guilty I felt, because I always like in my head I was like, okay, well, you know, we'll maybe wait till the kids are like graduated and then I'll come out.
Speaker 2:Or you know something like I going to be someone who's like 60 years old and finally coming out? Because I hear a lot of those stories like they came out way late in life and then you miss all of those experiences that you get being your true, authentic self at a younger age. So it just kept eating away at me she, miserable and it was on january 6th of 2015 that it, just, like it, came to a boiling point. It was too much, I could not stand it anymore and I wrote a letter and I read it to her at night and it was like it was terrible. It was a horrible experience.
Speaker 2:Looking back on it, I did not handle it well at all, but there's not really, I think, a good way to handle it and there's certainly no handbook on how to address these topics. Since coming out, I have met a lot of men that were in a heterosexual marriage, had kids and came out very similar to me. So it's not as uncommon as I thought it was, but it's still one of those things like how, how do you, how do you do this? So I just kind of like ripped off the band-aid. I'm like you know'm gay. I want to pursue that part of my life, and I told her that I felt like she and the kids should move back to Phoenix to be closer to family so that they would have a support system. And so the big thing I think I did wrong in the whole situation was kind of dictating what I thought she should do, instead of letting her make those decisions and coming up with that.
Speaker 1:If you're telling her to move away with the children as well. Maybe there was something in there that she thought oh so not only do you not want to be married to me anymore, but you don't want me around anymore at all, and you don't want the children around. Maybe there was, even though that wasn't what you were meaning that could have been taken that way.
Speaker 2:I had been stewing on this for for many, many years. So in my head, like I'd processed a lot of these emotions, I had processed the grief, the loss of family, all of that and this was all brand new to her. Like in an instant her life changed and I failed to recognize that. So, like looking back on it, there's definitely things I think I should have done differently during that whole process. But in the moment, like I had no idea what to do, I did not know how to approach it, which is why I wrote the letter, cause I knew if I didn't, I would chicken out. I wouldn't like I'd start a conversation, it'd probably get really weird and then I would backtrack and just try it again later. We'd already planned a trip back to Phoenix just to visit. So we ended up as a family flying back to Phoenix. We were staying with her parents and then I came back to Colorado alone Like they just stayed there, and then, like a week later I drove her car down just packed with as much of their stuff as I could fit.
Speaker 2:It was terrible. I had to move like three times in a month because I had to move all of their stuff from Colorado to Arizona, all of my stuff to the new apartment and to a storage unit because I was downsizing and it was. It was very stressful, very, very stressful. So during all of that, like I actually met my husband, the, on January 31. So like within a month I had met, because I already had this business trip to Seattle planned. So like everything happened very quickly. It was a long-distance relationship. So it was nice that it was a long-distance relationship because there wasn't a whole lot of pressure, because you know, we were a thousand miles apart and he would do his thing and I would do my thing while we were apart. But like I felt very alone in colorado I was doing all this stuff like pretty heavy stuff, like moving, and just I mean, even existing alone can be heavy. Yeah, it got really dark for a bit as I was alone, moving, didn't really have anyone to talk to about this, because, like, who could relate to me in this situation that I can talk to and lean on and try and get support from?
Speaker 2:So it was about a year after we separated that I was probably at my lowest and I actually did contemplate suicide for a minute and that was. I mean, that day was really low, like I was pretty much paralyzed on my couch, like I couldn't move because I knew if I got up to do anything it would snowball and that would be the end of it. So I literally sat on the couch all day, just not even watching TV. I just sat there all day. And that's another kind of breaking point.
Speaker 2:I decided like I need to make some changes in my life. So the following day I called my boss and told him that I needed to step down from my current position. I was a manager of project managers. It was a very stressful job and that's what had moved me to Colorado in the first place. And I told him like I cannot do this anymore, like this is too much stress on me with everything else going on in my life. So I stepped down. We made some changes. That was definitely a good thing.
Speaker 2:I'm actually still with the same company. I've been with them for 17 years. But shortly after that I actually got a layoff letter that I was losing my job completely. And that's when we moved back to Oregon Because I'm like, hey, I'm losing my job, so I don't need to stay here anymore, let's up and move and then I got a new position with the company in Oregon. So that was nice. But that's when I really started looking at my life and how things were going and really starting to, I think, take control of it. And what do I want, what do I want for me, what do I want out of this life, and started making that stuff happen.
Speaker 1:What saved you, Chris, on that sofa that day? I know you said if you'd got up it would have snowballed, but you didn't get up, so something stopped you from getting up and it going the wrong way. What was it that saved you in that moment?
Speaker 2:I'm not entirely sure. At that point my now husband was living with me. He had moved in from, like moved from seattle to denver, but he was away at work all day. I it must have been a weekend, I think it was a sunday, because the following day was monday and that's when I went in to talk to my boss.
Speaker 2:Um, so, like I don't know, there was something in my head that said just do not move until he gets home. So I, like I just sat there all day crying on and off, but like so many thoughts going through my head of like how I would do it, what I needed to do it, like all all of these terrible looming thoughts, a lot of darkness, and I'm just, you know, obviously I'm glad nothing happened, but it was thoughts and feelings I had never experienced before, like I've had a lot of tough times and depression and stuff up to that point, but never like the thoughts of suicide. So it was very scary and I never want to go through that again. So it just yeah, I don't know what stopped me from getting up. It was just, I don't know, a voice in the back of my head.
Speaker 1:you know, just don't do it, just just stay put for now, so yeah, I think I think a lot of people, um, don't realize actually that when you get to that point and I've been there when you just reach your lowest of lowest and it's very, very dark, uh, for me, when I was there at that point, this was many, many years ago, I was actually in therapy at the time and it was the therapy was bringing out all sorts of, you know, deflected memories and things, and and then something happened in my life and it just felt like the end. Um, it's not that you, uh, don't want go on living, it's that you want the pain to stop. That was what it was for me. It was I just want this pain to be over. I can't take this pain anymore. It's not so much I don't want to live anymore, it's I can't cope with the pain.
Speaker 1:What was your pain stemming from? Because it's interesting, chris you had this new relationship with someone you obviously love, because you're with him now. So you had the new relationship, and so for a lot of people, that would have been, I don't want to say, the rebound, but it would have given you, you know, laughter and joy and love and and distract you from your pain. So what was the pain? That was so, so dark.
Speaker 2:So what was the pain? That was so, so dark. I think it had a lot to do with, like, the loss of my previous relationship still, like that was still looming, um, missing my kids, you know, and then getting into thoughts of like how I've, you know, messed up my ex-wife's life and I've messed up the kid's life and now, like all of this stuff has snowballed and it's all my fault, like it was my a hundred percent my fault and that was a lot to to process and to deal with. And I think, like when I first came out, like I knew this was going to change everything, but I think stuff didn't fall into place, like I had already you, you know played out the scenario in my head. Like things were different, they moved back home but they weren't like instantly happy and it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows and they were having a difficult time and it just I felt really bad because this was my fault. So I think I felt like I couldn't make it better. So what's the point in me being here?
Speaker 2:So that's, I think, kind of where a lot of that had stemmed from at that point, plus the stress of my job. But I had to keep my job because I needed to support them. I was paying child support because at the time we separated she was a stay-at-home mom, because it was cheaper for her to stay at home than it was to pay for daycare for two kids. But now she needed to go back to work. So trying to figure that out and all of this stuff, but I still had to work, so I can support them, and it just it all kind of snowballed out of that. Yeah well, a question, I was going to work so I can support them, and it just it all kind of snowballed out of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, a question I was going to ask you from earlier was when you actually read the letter to her, what was her? I mean? Obviously I can imagine, as you said, her life changed in that moment. So she was devastated. But did she say I always knew, or had had an inkling, or had it ever been discussed before?
Speaker 2:I don't think we had ever discussed it before and I don't think it was that night. But later on she did tell me she had a feeling. She even said when we were first dating, our very first official date, she thought it was just like friends. Because this guy is clearly gay, because even when I was like pretending to be straight I wasn't good at it I was very and I still am very flamboyant, very like a loud presence, and that's just always who I've been. So you know, I didn't like try to to like butch up and be all like manly and and whatever. Uh, when we were together I was just me. So even when I well, when I came out, a lot of people were like duh, like everybody knew. So it was still difficult for her, I think, to accept what that meant by way of our relationship, like me coming out and being gay and living as me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think if you were to have read a letter and said I've had an affair with a woman and I'm, my sexuality is very plain for me to see and all to see and I can't change it, and that's that's the way I feel, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I've been trying to change it for 10 years.
Speaker 1:So you, so you. You know you didn't get up off the sofa, thank goodness. And then you started, obviously one foot in front of the next, and started to take care of yourself. As you said, something inside of you said okay, I have to start making these changes for myself, and I think that's the. That's one of the. It's one of the big key things is to start to protect ourselves, and that's what you were doing. You know, protecting yourself from being on, that's what you were doing. You're protecting yourself from being on that sofa again and making changes. How did you claw your way back? Did you ever slip back into that sofa moment again, or were you able to really start to make progress from that point and, if so, what helped you to make that progress?
Speaker 2:I've never been at that low a point since. From that moment, you know, I, you know talked to my boss. I changed my position to a much less stressful position Still stressful, but less stressful, you know, I talked to my doctor about getting antidepressant medication. That has definitely helped. And then just, I think, taking ownership and like learning what I can and can't change about me and about the world around me, because some things are just the way they are. They may suck, but you need to find a way to cope with them and work with them, because you can't change them, and if you spend all your energy trying to change something that isn't going to change, you'll have no energy left for anything else. So that's kind of what changed, in my mind anyway. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What is the relationship like with your family? I mean, do you and your wife have a good relationship now? Your ex-wife, do you have a good relationship now?
Speaker 2:We do. We don't talk a whole lot, but we have the kids together, so we have to communicate. I'd like to say that we co-parent, but she does, like 99% of the parenting. Because we are so far apart, I can't just go pick up the kids because they're misbehaving and discipline them or whatever misbehaving. And you know, discipline them or whatever, um, they are like. Our oldest will be 18 in february, which is bonkers. I cannot believe it.
Speaker 2:But, um, you know, we've been separated since 2015, so it's been almost 10 years and the kids have grown up a lot in those 10 years. You know there have been some challenges and schooling and everything. But I have a like I FaceTime with them every Tuesday and just kind of catch up what's going on, and then she'll you know she's in the background as we're FaceTiming so she'll like blurt out if they did something or there's something they were supposed to talk to me about or she had a question about, about, like, an upcoming trip or a school function or something like that. So we're definitely at a better place now than we were nine, ten years ago. Um, so it's, it's working out okay, but it's it's long distance. You know we're far apart from each other. So I think it changes the dynamic a little bit and what about your parents?
Speaker 1:how did they react to the news when it happened?
Speaker 2:so my ex-wife actually took care of my coming out for me I don't think intentionally, but the following day after I came out she I don't think intentionally, but the following day after I came out. I don't know if she called my mom or my mom called her, but that's where all my family lives to like officially come out and kind of tell them what's going on. They already knew and at that point I had not talked to my father in probably like 12 years. It's been a strange relationship with him and all of my siblings, um, but he was invited to dinner, like the dinner, my coming out dinner. My oldest sister invite, asked me if he could come. I'm like, yeah, that's, that's fine. Like I could at that point care less what he thinks about it because I haven't talked to him in 12 years. Uh, so I, you know, officially came out. It was, it wasn super awkward. It wasn't as awkward as I thought it would be. They all seemed fairly accepting.
Speaker 2:Um half of my siblings are still, I think half well, two of them. So there's six kids in my family. Two of them are still active Mormon, one is Catholic, one is like non-denominational christian. And then my youngest brother, he's um autistic, like diagnosed in the 90s kind of autistic and, um, I don't know where on the spectrum he would fall today, but he was diagnosed as mild to moderate autistic. He does not process things the same way as everyone else, so he just just kind of does whatever I think at this point in his life. He's also fairly anti-religious, but I don't talk to him a whole lot because conversations get very frustrating with him sometimes.
Speaker 2:So it was an interesting dinner for sure, and if they had something to say, no one said anything for sure. And if they had something to say, no one said anything. Since then the family's I don't want to say fallen apart, but we've definitely split. We don't not all talk to each other like we used to, but it's not because of me coming out, that's more politically motivated with all the stuff happening in the United States and religion in general. So I really only talked to two of my sisters at this point, the Catholic one and the Christian one.
Speaker 1:So Right, and and do you? And what about your mom?
Speaker 2:I haven't spoken with her in a while. She did text me happy birthday this year because my birthday is the day before her birthday, so it's kind of hard to forget. But that was it. It was just a happy birthday. But last year I didn't get a happy birthday text, and I don't think the year before either.
Speaker 1:So and how does all this sit with you then, chris? Are you very, are you sort of philosophical about it and you're like, well, this is the way it has to be, or does it still hurt?
Speaker 2:it. It's not like being blood relatives does not matter to me, like I don't care if you know we were born from the same two parents. If I don't like you, I don't like you. End of story. Um. Or if we weren't blood relatives but I love you, you are my sibling, or whatever like that's. You know, family is what you make of it. I I've never thought the whole. You know, blood is thicker than water, blah, blah. That kind of stuff. Like if I need to cut ties with someone, I cut ties with someone. I don't care if we're related or not.
Speaker 1:I do what's best for me yeah, yeah, what, um, what scars do you think you've been left with from all of this? What sort of battle wounds do you think you have?
Speaker 2:I think I've healed from most of them. Like, obviously there's a lot of religious trauma which I think has led to me being as anti-religious as I am I'm not as extreme as my husband is Um, I'm more just like whatever you do you, I will not have any of that in my life. Um, and and so I think for scars left, I don't really know, because I think I've kind of addressed them for the most part when I decided that, you know, I am my own person, I make my own decisions for my life, I will do what I want to do. So there's not a lot of like residual issues from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know, when you just said that if I want to cut someone out of my life, I will do, and then earlier you talked about your wife and how difficult it was and the kind of guilt for the way you handled it. So do you handle things differently now, although you are still very strong minded and you are very much doing things for yourself, which is what we all have to do but do you handle things in a different way? Do you think there's a different level of compassion now?
Speaker 2:I think so. Well, I think it also depends on like, why I would be cutting someone from my life. Like with my wife, I wanted to still be friends after everything fell apart. I mean one we have the children together, but also like we were really good friends prior to getting married. So that was one like if, if the our relationship was different and was like I just can't stand you anymore, I'm going to cut you out of my life, that would have been different than I want to change our relationship, but keep you in my life. So when I cut someone out, it's like you're gone, chop gone.
Speaker 2:I think I do process things differently. If I had a friend who we fell out of friendship and they blocked me on social media for like out of the blue, for whatever, I think I'd be like okay, whatever. Versus you know, 10 years ago, I'd be like what did I do wrong? And I'd be very like paranoid about like did they learn something about me or what did I do wrong or did I say something wrong, and just very like self-conscious about that. And these days I'm more like whatever. If you don't like me, you don't like me.
Speaker 1:There's plenty of people who do like me, so we'll just go hang out with them that's something I'm definitely learning in my life is believing that you are in the right place at the right time, and all the things that are happening for you should be happening for you to either teach you a lesson or to help you progress. If, on your path, you get rejected, it's because you need to be redirected in another direction. So I think you have to, as you say, if your friend did that to you, you have to go, okay. Well then, and it's that whole thing as well of not gripping onto people or things, because the more that you grip onto things, they'll slip through your hands anyway. There's no point in if somebody wants to go, let them go, you know, because you can't as you said, you can't control other people, you can only control yourself, right?
Speaker 1:So what are what lessons do you think that you've learned, taking forward now into your life? What are the sort of biggest lessons? I suppose, really, you've just said there it's about changing yourself, not other people. Is there anything else?
Speaker 2:no, I think that's really it, like that's what I kind of live my life by is, you know, it sounds selfish, but like focusing on yourself and the things you can change and what's best for you. And when I say what's best for you, it's, you know, me and my direct, like my husband, my children, like we are, you know, a family unit. So what's going to work best for us? Yeah, just keeping that in mind and kind of using that to guide my life.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk about your creativity, because if anybody looks at your account I mean what I do like it's interesting talking to you now, chris, because the one thing that does come across from your account is you are straight talking. What you see is what you get. But what has that creativity done for you? Because just going back to that time when you're on the sofa in your darkest time, I know obviously you had spatial issues, didn't you? And so I've not been able to, I suppose. Do you think that affected your mental health as well in a big way? Do you think we should not take that for granted, that you weren't able to create?
Speaker 2:so there was another problem yes, so I've been creative my entire life. Like as far back as I can remember, I was drawing something or cutting up paper and gluing it back together like I was doing something creative, like with my hands doing something. I've always been that way. I'm sure I have a touch of adhd. I just have that excess energy and that's how I would kind of, you know, dispel it or, like you know, put it out there. So when I'm not able to be creative in some way and making something physically like with my hands, that energy just kind of gets pent up inside me and it's new emotions and new things that I need to process, in addition to the day-to-day stresses of being a human being on this earth at this moment. So I do find that if I go like several days without, you know, being in my sewing room and being creative, I just I feel off, I feel like I can't do anything.
Speaker 2:Um, so I find it is very important that at that time, when I was at my lowest, I don't think I even had my sewing machine set up. I know in that apartment at some point I set up my sewing machine in the living room, which it was a small living room, so that was kind of a big deal. Um and the same, when we moved back to oregon, like I had a desk with my well, I don't know if I had my sewing machine, I think I did have it set up at some point. But shortly after we moved to oregon my husband proposed and then we started planning for the wedding. And at our wedding we didn't have any fresh flowers. I made all of the flowers out of paper.
Speaker 2:So, I spent seven months making paper flowers for every table, which they turned out gorgeous. It was super fun, but that was something to be creative and be tactile and working with my hands, so it was messy still, but it was something to keep me busy and to do, so it helped a lot.
Speaker 1:That strikes me as well as a very important part of your creativity, is that you want to see the joy in other people from what you do. That's what I get when I watch your account and I see what you do. You really want people to experience this creativity for themselves, but also this joy as well. You're kind of, I think, you like to spread that joy. So by doing those paper flowers, yes, it was great for you, but you knew that people would look at them and be like, wow, you know they're beautiful and and you know it's it's that is that that's important for you, I would imagine. Is it, chris?
Speaker 2:it is, yeah, and like with the paper flowers, they went home with our guests. Like we're like take whatever you want, because I don't want to pack it all home. So like I'll see pictures still today, nine, seven years later, we just had our seven year anniversary and you know, like in the back I'm like, oh, look, there's like a vase of paper flowers that I made. Like they're still here. We have a couple in our living room and yeah it's, it's fun, yeah the joy.
Speaker 1:I have to ask, I have to ask you what did you wear, chris, for your wedding? I have to know, because I I imagine I can be completely wrong, but I imagine you wearing um, like a really flamboyant, like bright pink suit or something, or something with pattern or something. I don't know. What do you wear?
Speaker 2:our outfits were pretty boring for the day. So we had he was in like a gray suit that had like these blue. It was very faint, like very understated um, and then my suit was black. I had on a purple bow tie, like a purple plaid bow tie, and he had on a yellow plaid bow tie because my favorite color is yellow, his favorite color is purple. So we wore each other's colors. Um, I had on my converse because that's pretty much all I wear and so like that was pretty like subdued, so yeah, yeah, well, that surprises me.
Speaker 1:I would have absolutely seen you in. But I love the little Dickie Bow thing, the little, that's really cute. That's really cute. And yeah, nice yellow Yellow is also my favorite color. I love yellow, fabulous. And yeah, nice yellow yellow is also my favorite color. I love yellow, um, fabulous. So how do you think your creativity has changed over the years, chris? Because obviously you've gone through a huge amount of changes and you've worked on yourself, and so how do you think? Has it become more free-flowing? Are you open to more ideas? How has your creativity changed?
Speaker 2:So over the years and I heard someone say this several years ago about like their ADHD experience, but like how people collect things they collected hobbies. I'm very much that way. You know, over the years I've done paper crafting, scrapbooking, card making. I had a vinyl cutter for a while and did like vinyl signs. I've done painting, sewing, like clothing construction and now quilting, like I've just I've done it all and if I find something interesting I will just jump both feet in to that.
Speaker 2:Like powder coating, which is like mostly, mostly in the automotive industry. I was on a kick for that for a bit and I um powder coated all of the doorknobs in our house to match it. Just, it gets crazy like I will just like, oh, that's so fascinating, I need to learn it and do it. And then I'll usually be like, okay, I've learned it, I it, I've done it, I'm bored with it. Now I move on. But I have found through all of the years I always come back to sewing. Like sewing really is like the heart of my like creative process. I learned to sew when I was probably like eight years old. My mom taught me and you know I was making clothes for like my cabbage patch kid and making stuffed animals, and then I started making dolls and clothes for me and clothes for my kids and now quilts.
Speaker 1:So, like it always comes back to sewing, yeah, I think there's a dichotomy with you, chris, because it sounds like creativity for you is definitely a meditative thing. You know you need it, you have to be focused, you have your hands. It helps you with the flow in your life. It's definitely, yes, it's a thing, it's a process and you need it about. Oh and how do I do that? And I'll try this and how do I do that. So that's quite a dichotomy from being in the flow and meditative to now almost like spiking. I need to do this, I want to do this, I want to do this. So is this something that you recognize in yourself, that you constantly need challenges? Do you find you get bored with things, or is it just that you've got this inquisitive mind?
Speaker 2:definitely the inquisitive mind. I've always always been that way, like interested in things and wanting to learn new things. But then I also do want to challenge myself, because if I become bored in something, I just get bored and walk away like that's how UFOs happen unfinished objects unfinished projects I have, I think two right now and one I may disabandon completely, but one I do need to finish.
Speaker 2:But if I get bored I just move on to the next thing.
Speaker 2:So when I'm doing my quilts I usually will do one quilt, start to finish before I start the next quilt, because then if I start the next quilt I'm going to be distracted from the first one and it's never going to get finished.
Speaker 2:So adding in that pattern writing, I think adds in that bit of challenge that yes, I'm making a fun quilt and I am enjoying making the quilt, but then as I'm making it I'm like, oh, I need to remember to write this bit down to include in the pattern, like this little tidbit or instructions or whatever. So my mind is always kind of turning in that direction, like how do I translate this onto paper for someone? And I'm thinking that as I'm sewing it mind active while I'm still going through that you know repetitive process of like chain stitching pieces or just thinking about how things are going to go together, picking fabrics, that sort of thing. So I do find it very meditative because I just love creating and having something physical at the end, like to show for all this work I've put in, but then that challenge of writing it down keeps me going, yeah.
Speaker 1:Hmm, I have a question for you, something that's just struck me. So when you okay? So you are a person, chris, who is definitely motivated to keep doing things. You're challenging yourself, you're trying new things, you're making new things, you're writing new things. You're going, going, going, going. Do you ever have moments of absolute silence and nothing?
Speaker 2:Not really.
Speaker 1:Now, is there any part of you that doesn't want to have that moment of silence and nothing, because when you had those moments of silence and kind of nothing that was darkness. Is there any fear for you in going back to that period, or do you think it's just that you want to keep busy?
Speaker 2:maybe, like I've never thought about that before, like maybe deep down that is something, but like it kind of drives my husband crazy, I'll be like you know, go, go, go, and then I'll go to take a break. So I'll, you know, sit down next to him on the couch or watching tv, whatever, and like within 30 seconds I'm up and doing something else. Like I just I can't sit still for too long. Um, I have learned to get better at that. Like it's okay to take a break and sit down and hang out with my husband or my kids or or whatever. Um, but I just like because I get bored so easily if I'm just sitting there, I'm just like, okay, like there's so much other stuff I could be doing right now, so I just get up and go do it that's a good answer, though, because the problem with always being on the go is you're trying to distract yourself from some inner pain, but I don't sense that with you.
Speaker 1:I think I see you as a little boy. Actually, it's like you know, you're just this kid inside who just wants to keep exploring and keep going, and I don't know, maybe your little inner self is trying to make up some lost years, you know, when you weren't yourself, when you weren't being fully inquisitive into everything you wanted to do, and so maybe now there's part of you that goes well. Now we are, now we're going to do whatever we want to do.
Speaker 2:That's probably true, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's good. So what is left for you to do then? Chris, I never liked this kind of five-year plan thing. I mean I've never. I don't have a five-minute plan. I mean I don't know what I'm going to do when I finish talking to you. But what, if you know? If I could say to you right now I will give you a dream of yours in a few years whenever that may be, is there anything that you would like to achieve in your life?
Speaker 2:my biggest goal right now?
Speaker 2:Because, like, things have changed so much in the last two years in regards to, like my, my creativity because it was spring of 2020 when I was making my poison apple quilt that I got like noticed on TikTok and like my following started growing really quickly.
Speaker 2:And then Instagram is almost caught up with that, and Facebook and YouTube, like my social presence has exploded over the last two years and that has led to like ambassadorships with AccuQuilt and Sewing Parts Online and the Grace Company. Like all of these opportunities that are coming my way that I never would have dreamed about two years ago. So trying to make like a five-year plan is like I don't know if like I would be like okay, well, if I continue on this trajectory, like these super lofty goals, but if I kind of flatten out, which is fine too, like so it's hard to like pinpoint where I'm going to be in five years, but my biggest goal is to be able to replace my like my nine to five day job income with something in the quilting crafting industry. So like not having to do my normal corporate job and being able to do this full time. That's really my big goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I can see that happening. What do you think it is that has made you so popular on all those social media platforms, Because I know a lot of people would love to have that. You know that explosion in their accounts and then have those opportunities. So what is it? Why do you think your explosion happened?
Speaker 2:I get asked that like I will have other creators ask me like how do you do it? And and all this. I'm like I honestly have no idea. I will flat out tell people like I don't know what I'm doing, like I just make a video and I post it. I hope for the best. Um, it was the poison apple quilt that got me noticed on Tik TOK and so I kind of like rode that wave for a bit, cause I seriously overnight, went from like 500 followers to 10,000 followers.
Speaker 2:Like my phone would not stop buzzing Cause it was just like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding like a new follower. It was insane. And then for Instagram it was my randomly generated quilt when I would roll the dice to pick the block pattern and all of the fabrics for the block that started building my following there.
Speaker 1:So I think a lot of it is just consistently posting and being authentic, like being you, like don't try and make up some persona. So well, you just mentioned there about being authentic, so I was just going to ask you, chris, for anybody who is listening to this right now and maybe they are going through a struggle in their life or they're wanting to change their lives, change their relationships or whatever, and they're facing some dark times, what advice would you give to them? As a person who has gone through it all? What kind of words of comfort or wisdom would you say to those people?
Speaker 2:So and I know this is probably another cliche but it does get better. But I think it does only get better if you make it get better. So it's really, you know, focus on yourself and what do you need in the moment. It may not be what everyone else wants for you, but you know, at the end of the day, we all have to have that bit of self-preservation, like how do I maintain myself? And, you know, keep myself on this planet and keep myself alive and happy, like we all want to be happy. So you know, focus on that, and just one day at a time.
Speaker 2:You know, maybe don't try and make yourself a five-year plan. Just like today, I'm going to do this, don't even worry about tomorrow. Like today, this is what I want to do, so I'm going to go do that. Then, when you wake up tomorrow, do the same thing Today, I want. Go do that. Then, when you wake up tomorrow, do the same thing. Today, I want to do this. And then, from there, as that starts to be like, okay, I've got my daily down, so now maybe let's do like a three day. Like today, it's this, tomorrow is this, the day after, that's that. And, you know, slowly expand that out to where it's manageable for you in your current situation.
Speaker 1:Just do something today, don't worry about tomorrow and don't think I've got to change my life tomorrow and it's all going to happen tomorrow. Just go. What can I do today? And, as you said, you wrote a letter. That was the first step.
Speaker 1:It was a big step, but you made that step. That day you didn't know what was going to happen. You didn't know where you're going to be a year later. But day you didn't know what was going to happen. You didn't know where you're going to be a year later. But it's about making that first step and, as you say, very important. To hold on to that change of any type is difficult. I mean, even if we just move house, if we are married with children, and we move house, you sit in that house thinking I want to go back to my old house.
Speaker 2:Why did I do this? Why did I move here? First thing, you think, is I want to go back to my old house.
Speaker 1:Why did I do this? Why did I move here? First thing you think is I want to go back, but it's because it's new, it's different. So I think any change in life is difficult, so you just have to hang on in there and, as you say, believe things will get better. Yeah Well, chris, it's been an absolute pleasure and thank you so much for being so honest and um and so vulnerable. Yeah, and um, and d was right.
Speaker 2:She said he'll give you a good story and you did give me a good story.
Speaker 1:oh, I love you. Yeah, she's great. I love d she's. She's such a lovely lady and very talented. Um yes, yeah, you did um and it's and it's. I think what's fantastic about the podcast and interviewing people like you is that it's great to know that other people have been through exceptionally dark times and they have come through them and now someone can look at you and see your life is filled with colour. Yes, you will have problems and issues we all do but you're here, you're on this planet and you're thriving, you're learning, and that's fantastic for anybody who is going through a dark time, and we will all go through a dark time.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so thank you for sharing your story. It's been fabulous. You're very welcome. Thank you Just before you go, lovely listener, can I ask you a favour If you have a friend who you think would enjoy listening to this podcast, would you mind please telling them about it?
Speaker 1:It helps me to spread the word and, you never know, they might get a life lesson out of it or, at the very least, just have a lovely 40 minutes of relaxing time for themselves. The second thing to say is that if you have enjoyed this, it would really help me if you would give me a little quick like or a comment, especially if you're listening on one of the podcast platforms. It just means that when anybody lands on the page, they can see that people have reviewed it, they've liked it, enjoyed it and got something out of it. So if you wouldn't mind leaving me a review, that would be amazing. And the final thing to say is that if you are a business and you're thinking how do I get my message out there, well, you could do it on this podcast. All you have to do is reach out to me, rachel, at breakingtheblockscom. The details are below in the box. Thank you so much to everybody for listening and enjoying and saying the lovely things that you're saying.
