Breaking the Blocks
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Thanks for stopping by! Life is tough, and I think this podcast might offer you some relief. My aim? To inspire you to overcome some of your own blocks through the inspirational, honest, and at times, downright raw conversations with some wonderful guests, not huge celebrities, regular people like you and I. Let’s see how they have overcome the difficulties in their lives and offer you some advice and more importantly hope.
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Breaking the Blocks
The Art of Letting Go. Dee Bushrod Embraces Change
Ever felt trapped by the roles others expect you to play? Quilter Dee Bushrod of @pixelquilts knows that feeling all too well. Renowned for her intricate pixel quilts, Dee takes us through her emotional journey of overcoming depression, breaking free from people-pleasing habits, and bravely stepping away from a structured religious environment to embrace an authentic self. Listen as she recounts the touching story of attempting to gift a pixel quilt of the Queen during her Platinum Jubilee, a project that was met with an unexpected twist, highlighting the unexpected paths authenticity can lead us down.
Quilting became more than just a craft for Dee—it was a lifeline during times of family transition and personal struggles. A Billie Eilish-themed quilt, created to comfort her daughter, sparked a newfound passion that transformed dark times into moments of beauty and connection. Dee's experience is a testament to how creative expression can lead to self-discovery, illustrating the therapeutic power of embracing imperfections and celebrating authentic joy.
Stepping away from long-held roles and identities is not easy, yet Dee shares how rewriting her narrative led to a liberation from fear and societal expectations. Her journey emphasizes the courage it takes to prioritize self-worth over external validation, fostering meaningful relationships that transcend religious boundaries. Through her story, Dee inspires us to find the courage to be true to ourselves, shedding the masks of people-pleasing to uncover a more fulfilling life—one quilted with love, authenticity, and joy.
Follow Dee on Insta @pixelquilts
Well, hello and welcome back to another episode of Breaking the Blocks. I'm your host, rachel Pearman. Thank you so much for joining me today. So who is our guest today? She is a quilter. She's called Dee Bushrod and you can follow her at Pixel Quilts.
Speaker 1:When I started Breaking the Blocks, what I wanted to do was to share real human stories, stories about the difficult things that we go through in our lives. Why did I want to do that? Because I wanted you to know that you are not alone, but what that meant was that I had to find people who were willing to share their stories, who were willing to be vulnerable and open and honest, and so far, I've had some incredible guests who have shared their life stories. In our chat today, dee tackled quite a few issues. One of the main issues was depression and how to overcome that, or being a people pleaser and how to make sure that you don't fall into that trap, how to find your authentic self, your authentic path, how to be what you want to be. She also talked about leaving the church and how difficult that decision was for her, because it was an organization that she'd been part of for many, many years. Her biggest fear was that she would lose some very special and close people to her who she had known for many, many years. Did she? Did she lose those people? Did she find new people?
Speaker 1:Well, if you have a listen to the podcast, you will find out the answer to that and many more questions that I posed to Dee during the interview. I hope that you find it useful. I hope that you can recognize yourself in some of the issues Dee has faced and I hope that perhaps you'll have the strength to be your authentic self and go down your own path. Sit, relax and enjoy this episode of breaking the blocks. Hello, lovely d. So nice to have you back in the studio again. And we have to say back in the studio again because the first time we attempted this I wasn't quite au fait with everything and you were half hanging off the um the picture so that wasn't I mean.
Speaker 2:That pretty much sums me up, though.
Speaker 1:So half in, half out and for anybody listening they'll go. What does it matter? That's because I do the YouTube channel, as well as the podcast platforms, and anybody watching on YouTube would have only have had half of Dee's head. I mean, literally, I could only see half your head. It was quite distracting.
Speaker 2:There are some benefits to that, honestly.
Speaker 1:Anyway, what's nice about having you back in at this stage now, dee, is the first time I interviewed you was probably about seven months ago now, because I did a lot of interviews in November, december, and actually since then you and I have got to know each other a bit more. We've just worked together on your lovely dress class, your quilted dress class, which was a success and everybody enjoyed it. If anybody wants to download that from the online shop, please go to the website graftedmonkeyscom. You can just get it in there. The one thing, dee, I do want to start with we have to do the Queen story. I know you've done it a thousand million times. Lovely, dee. As I've said in the intro there, fantastic quilter makes these amazing portraits and you decided one day to make a portrait of the Queen. Tell us all about it, dee.
Speaker 2:Well, that actually comes from a place of me being a complete people pleaser, which I'm trying to move past, and when I started making the pixel quilts anytime I'd put one online, people would contact me and say, can you make me one? So I knew I had to kind of protect this, because I wasn't good at saying no. I knew I had to kind of protect. So I took a year out and I did a project where I made one pixel quilt a month of a woman that inspired me. It was 2022, the Queen's Platinum Jubilee, and so for June I made a pixel quilt of her and then I wanted to gift it to her, because all of the pixel quilts I made of the other women I would try and then just send it to them and gift it to them.
Speaker 2:So I went to box it up to send it to the Queen, because I thought that was a thing. And then I went online and on the Buckingham Palace website it said in bold text the Queen does not accept unsolicited gifts. So I was like, well, that kind of figures. Actually, you can't just send a box to Buckingham Palace, can you? So I decided to write her a letter instead and I enclosed pictures of the quilt and then so I sent that off. I did it all in May, well ahead of the Jubilee, and honestly I never expected to hear a thing. And then the July 4th weekend I got a letter back from the palace asking me to go ahead and send the quilt to the Queen. So I did.
Speaker 1:Which is only part of the story, of course. So you sent it there, Fabulous OK. So now the Queen is going to open the quilt, or is she Dee?
Speaker 2:Well, I didn't send it immediately because the local press here in Tulsa clicked on that this crazy English woman had made a quilt of the queen that was going to go to her. So it hung in a quilt shop here for a couple of weeks and then I sent it over to my mum because the palace requested it be sent royal mail. So I had to get it to my mum and then she was going to send it royal mail. Well, I ended up spending a couple of weeks at a quilt shop, a craft shop in my hometown, and so it was finally packaged up and sent and we got you know that it had to be signed for.
Speaker 1:I love the idea of an addressing gown. She comes down to bring in the milk and to sign a package, okay.
Speaker 2:And we know it was signed for the day after she passed.
Speaker 1:So ah yeah, and that is just devastating. I would imagine you know the excitement of receiving that letter to say, yes, she would like to see it, although, as we've said I mean I've heard this story so many times, so if people are listening, thinking you don't sound that, you know, surprised, rachel, I do know this story. To get that letter to say please send it must have been amazing. Um, but then to just know that you know she didn't get to see it in real life, that that I that must be have you sort of let that go now, because it's something you could easily hang on to as a kind of a big, the big disappointment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was crushing to begin with and I felt like a failure. I think that's what came through. It was like I just felt like such a failure and I think that's always the way you have this amazing experience. And then the one downside of it is the thing that you know our brain focuses on, and so I was kind of kicking myself and thinking I should have just got it there. Truth be told, looking at the situation now, even if it had got there a month, six weeks before this date, she was in Scotland. For that whole time she was at Balmoral because that was such a hot English summer that she was up in Scotland anyway. So the chances are that even if it would have got there, I might have deluded myself into thinking oh, I wonder if she saw it. But she probably wouldn't have done like. There's no fairy tale ending on this that I can say well, yeah, the Queen didn't see it, but I just I have no idea.
Speaker 1:The only thing is, though and this is what we've discussed before you and I, dee when you sent the letter saying I would like her to have this quilt, did you send a photograph of it?
Speaker 2:Yes, I sent a lot. There were lots of photos.
Speaker 1:So she would have seen it, because for her to agree to accept that quilt, they wouldn't you know, they're going to show her the photographs, aren't they? They're not just going to go. Oh, this lady's written a letter about a quilt. They're just going to go. And here it is, because it's such a beautiful quilt, it was so fabulous, they would have wanted her. So in a way, yes, she didn't see it in person, but how wonderful that she saw the photographs. They could easily have written back and said, well, thank you so much, but it's not appropriate at this time or whatever they did write back, she did want to see it for her to say, yes, I would love to see this piece of art. I suppose that's what you've got to take on board really. So it is an incredible connection. You did have a connection with the Queen through a quilt the queen through a quilt.
Speaker 2:It's. It's been a learning curve because up until that point, you know, she was obviously the sixth one I'd made that year and up until that point I'd really had to reach the point where me creating these quilts and giving them to people had no, had no strings attached. So, regardless of whether they want it, whether I ever heard anything, whether I did ever get to gift it, I had to have like zero expectations in order to not be heartbroken every time. So by the time the queen rolled around, I feel like I had actually got my head around. You know, I'm doing this because I enjoy it and I love the process, and that's the part I'm focusing on.
Speaker 1:What happens to the quilt is almost none of my business, you know yes, that well, now that's very interesting and that's a very interesting perspective and that kind of leads us in beautifully well into what quilting does for you, because, of course, this podcast breaking the blocks, is about how we overcome blocks in our life through creativity, and we do talk a lot about the blocks of your face, which we will, but you are obviously a quilter, so why do you quilt Dee for you? Is it to overcome, perhaps, some of the things that we're going to talk about? Or is it just something you've done since you were younger and you've continued to do, as a hobby, things since you?
Speaker 2:you've done since you were younger and you've continued to do as a hobby. So no, I I was told at a very early age I think I was about 10 years old and a teacher had set a project, bearing in mind at this time, my mum had a craft shop and she did all manner of different crafts and was excellent and every single one of them you know she's a seamstress she sewed her own wedding dress. So I was coming from this family that the local community knew owned this craft shop and when I was about 10 years old, a teacher had set a project and I did it and she came. I always remember she came over to me and she looked at what I'd done and she looked at me. She said you're just not creative, are you? You're just not a creative person. You, you're just not a creative person. And I kind of thought, well, no, I guess not. And I just kind of owned that, you know, for probably the next 20 years. I just was like, well, I'm not a creative person and it would mean that anytime I'd try something new, ultimately I'd end up frustrated because I was always so quick to give up if it didn't go exactly how I wanted it to.
Speaker 2:So, coming from that, I made my first quilt 18 years ago when I'd just had my son. So I have a daughter who's 20 and then a son who's 18. And I had created him a cowboy bedroom, because obviously, if you're British and you live inber and you have a newborn boy, they're going to be a cowboy. So I'd created him this cowboy bedroom, and I realized that I hadn't gotten him a blanket or anything that matched this room that I'd spent so long on, and so I took parts of all the different fabrics I'd used in this room and made a very simple quilt for him, and I didn't love the process. I thought it was a lot of faffing, honestly, and but the part I did love was the fact that I could get all of these different fabrics and showcase them in one place. So from there, well, if I've made a quilt for my son, I should make one for my daughter, because she was about to go into her big girl bed, and so I let her choose the fabric she wanted and I made.
Speaker 2:That was my second quilt I ever made and again, I did not like the process, like the precision you need, and it just seemed like I was setting myself up for failure, because I was never. I was never going to be able to do it perfectly or as well as anybody else and, honestly, that was 18 years ago and up until I found Pixel Quilts three years ago. Up until I found Pixel Quilts three years ago, any quilt I made and I've made hundreds I did it to get to the end result. I didn't do it because I loved the process, because the process of many of the quilts I did and the tiny pieces and the bias triangles that stretched, the bias triangles that stretched it, I did not enjoy it. It wasn't a process I enjoyed um, but I did it and I got through it because ultimately, I wanted a finished thing that I could then gift or so. I didn't love quilting up until a few years ago. I've made loads, but I it wasn't.
Speaker 2:I didn't love it at all so the change was finding, uh, or founding a pixel quilt when I was designing my first pixel quilt again, it was out of a, it was out of a place of um, it's gonna sound awful, but like darkness really. My daughter we'd moved to America in 2020. We'd just had lockdown, and so we didn't get to, she didn't get to say goodbye, she didn't get to finish school, she didn't get to say goodbye to her friends. We barely had any time that we could spend any time with family because we were still in partial lockdown. And so the whole of 2020 up until when we moved in August was just a horror, really. And then we're moving to Tulsa and then she's having to, you know, go to a brand new school and meet brand new people, and it hit her really, really hard. And the last thing we were supposed to do in England before we left was go to a Billie Eilish concert and we'd bought the tickets for her as a well done on her GCSEs and, of course, with lockdown and everything in the pandemic, it was cancelled and that was the thing that she was absolutely heartbroken about on top of everything else.
Speaker 2:So when we moved, she was in a really dark place and she was really struggling, and that that is a mother. That's really hard, and so I was trying to get her help. And in the meantime I said to her why don't we design like a banner for the Billie Eilish concert? Because as soon as she releases the tickets, we're going to get new tickets. You know, let's design a banner and it will be something that we can hold up, maybe like just for a split second. She'll look in our direction, and so it was a project that I dreamed up to give me some distraction from everything that was happening. And then it was a project also focused on her. What she didn't realize at the time is that I wanted to do something that meant I was next to her bedroom all of the time without her knowing, and my sewing room is right next to her bedroom, because that's how much I needed to kind of keep an eye on her at the time.
Speaker 2:So, from from, like this place of just darkness, this project grew and it was ultimately the image that Billie Eilish uses on her on the album, on the album cover, and I would just sit and work in my room and listen out for her and pay attention, and you know she up and would hear the Billie Eilish music go on or the Post Malone music. Ok, she's up. And it gave me a distraction and it was the first quilt I'd ever done that. When I looked at it, I stepped back. And I looked at it when it was done, I thought that I love it. Oh, I thought that I love it. Oh, my gosh, I love it. And it was the first quilt I had ever done that. It just I enjoyed the whole process, from start to finish, so from design right through to, you know, dragging my husband out downtown to get some photos of it. Every part of it I enjoyed, which is why I ended up going on and doing another one, and now I think I'm about 50 into them.
Speaker 1:But isn't it amazing how something so positive came out of darkness and that is often the way, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I feel like sometimes we are sent these periods of darkness to kind of find ourselves, or find something within ourselves, and that's what you found, as you say, something that would help you to be close to your daughter, but also, you know, to help you in the process as well.
Speaker 1:I want to go back to when you said at the beginning that you've always been a people pleaser.
Speaker 1:We're talking about making those portrait quills, and so that comes from being a people pleaser and also about making those portrait quills, and so that comes from a people pleaser and also the person who said to you that you weren't creative, and then you mentioned that whenever you made anything, you just felt like it wasn't good enough and so you weren't enjoying the process. So I wonder if, yes, obviously you founded pixel qu and it's a different way of working and you're making these quilts in a different way, you're not just following someone else's pattern, but I do wonder if also as well, there's been some shift in you in the last three years, that you are finding your creativity and that's helping you as a person as well. I do wonder if actually you didn't enjoy creating and making because you felt like a real people pleaser. You weren't good enough. Somebody told you weren't good enough. Maybe you were putting it on yourself and telling yourself I'm not good enough and all those things, and maybe you were in a dark space. What do you think?
Speaker 2:I think the timing coincided with a major shift in my life, which was that I had been in the church for 15 years and I stepped away. I stepped aside and I stepped away from it, and I think at that time, I just experienced such a change in myself in terms of trying to discover okay, so who am I? Because I feel like for the last 20 years, I have tried to be everything to everybody else. So you know, starting with family, teachers, and then you know my own family that I created. I was a mum first, I was a wife first and I really didn't know. I didn't know who Dee was, honestly, and the trouble was, what I was realizing is that the D who I was for everybody else. I was so deeply unhappy, I was so kind of unfulfilled in myself and so having to take a step back and say, ok, well, let's just strip all of these labels away from you and let's just see who you are you, and let's just see who you are.
Speaker 2:And I always remember, when we moved back to America, I left, we lived here before we left, and we were here for nine years and I left in 2014. And I left as a good Christian, mother and wife and I came back as this person who, just you know, left her faith and really didn't know her place in this world, and I didn't know how that was going to translate to any of the friendships that I'd made over here that I was coming back to, because ultimately I was coming back a completely different person. And I remember just being completely torn up about that and not knowing, but knowing I cannot wear a mask anymore. I cannot wear a mask. I can't pretend to be something that I'm not. And I remember making a video on TikTok. Tiktok has been very therapeutic, but I remember making this video and this video basically was me for the first time, when somebody said to me what church do you go to? I said I don't go to church. And I just said I don't go to church anymore and I just I didn't rush to fill any of the space, I just let there be this awkward space. And so I made a, I just made a small video on it, on TikTok, and I spoke to my daughter and I said I've just made this video, will you watch it? I think I need to take it down and she watched it and she got back to me and she said until you start telling the truth of who you are, you're going to keep bringing into your life who you're not. So the people that will cross your path is going to be who you're not. So the people that will cross your path is going to be who you're not.
Speaker 2:And that is something that stayed with me ever since, and I think what I've ended up kind of unpicking it and boiling it down to now, that is that, above everything else, is I have to be authentic. I have to be authentic Like this this is who I am. And you know what, if I'm not for you, that's okay. And I've got a and I've found peace with that. Not everybody likes me and I don't have to make everybody like me and actually if you don't like me, I don't have to try and change your mind or convince you of who I am. It's like that's where I've had to find my peace and it was just funny that in this period that was so hard for my daughter and the change and everything for her, she was still the one that was holding my hand and walking me through going.
Speaker 2:You know what?
Speaker 2:It's okay. You are telling me, it's okay to be exactly who I am, but you're not living it and that was kind of the wake-up call I needed. So I think me finding Pixel Quartz was me just being authentic and doing something that I loved. Because I loved it and not because of the outcome and not because I knew I was gifting it to this person and it would make them happy. I started doing something that was just to make me happy and I think now actually that is the only thing that's evident in my work, because if you get up close to it, you'll see wonky seams and you'll see evident in my work, because if you get up close to it, you'll see wonky seams and you'll see, you know, unmatched lines and things. But I think the only thing that does come through is the absolute joy and passion I have in making these things yeah, I'm taking it all in what you've said because I want to sift through it there was a guy called Gary Brecker, I believe, and he studied vibrations from people for like 15 years.
Speaker 2:And he did this study where he got a Faraday cage, which is where you get no electromagnetic interference, and he would put people in the. So guess what the highest vibration from people was? In what state would you think that the highest vibration would come?
Speaker 1:the highest vibration, I think, would be joy and authenticity when you, when you are completely happy in yourself that is, I mean I.
Speaker 2:I thought, well, the highest vibration for me would be love, or it's going to be hate and authenticity. When people were being authentic to who they were, it was 400 times higher than love. It was 400 times higher than hate. And I think when I read that study I thought you know that physically you can tell that from somebody, like sometimes if their words aren't aligning with their actions, and you just kind of get a little feeling. That study confirms to me. You know. You know when something is just not quite adding up and on the flip side of that, you also know when somebody is just being a thousand percent authentic as well.
Speaker 1:You know yeah, that's amazing, isn't it? And I do, I. I mean, I I've, you know, read a lot about this as well, about, you know, vibrations that we put out there, and I really do. I mean, it is scientific, isn't it? When we draw things into our lives, and your daughter was so spot on what? Spot on what she said, that if you keep being not yourself, you'll keep drawing things that aren't yourself. And, um, the thing is, it's finding yourself.
Speaker 1:I think isn't it, because I've certainly gone through that process, um, of trying on many different suits, really, and it wasn't a case of trying to be somebody I wasn't. It was like I couldn't quite work out who I was, and also that fear of not being accepted for who you really are. It's like when I started Crafty Monkeys, I really wanted to do mindfulness, but I started it probably from the wrong way and it wasn't accepted. People were just like don't want to do any of that. So then I had this kind of fear inside. Oh, oh, no, this is not for me then. No, I shouldn't be doing. No, okay, okay, okay, okay. Well, let's just stick to sewing. Okay, let's just stick to sewing, you know. But now somehow it's kind of come back around because it kept knocking on the shoulder and going no, there is something in this and that's why I love doing this podcast, because you know, we're able to talk about these things and people are enjoying it. So, yeah, I completely agree with you vibrationally and I think you draw in the same, the right people to you, people to you. It's like you and I met, you know, on the internet. We met a great time and then we would be having these conversations and you know, you did your dress class, as I've said, and you were very nervous about it, but you obviously felt, right, I've got, I want to do this, and I was like, well, here's the platform to do it. And it was a great success.
Speaker 1:So how do we find? I mean you, as you've said, you were in a dark place and and yet, looking from the outside, you have everything. So you've got the marriage, you've got the children, you're the wife, the mother, lovely home, move to america, brand new adventure. You know so and I'm saying this in inverted commas for anybody who can't see me on screen right now you know you should be fulfilled, but so often, you know, many of us have all these things and what I'm beginning to realize is that material things really mean very little. I mean, obviously I know we're in a very privileged position because we have running water and food and a roof over our head and there is a lot of the population at the moment who don't, for you know war, cetera. So I know we are very fortunate.
Speaker 1:I've not been flipping and saying, well, all of this means nothing. It means a lot, but in terms of you know, the nice cars and the handbags and the clothes and the flash holidays, it means absolutely nothing. I've realized this. Yeah, it's about finding what fulfills you when you are deeply unfulfilled, how do you find what fulfills you? I mean, strangely for you, dee, you returned to the quilting even though it hadn't fulfilled you. You know it frustrated you, but yet somehow you went back to it and then you did start to find yourself. So I know it's a difficult question, but you know how did you do it? Was there a shift? Can you remember any point that you sort of got through that darkness? Because it's very difficult.
Speaker 2:I think, um, knowing that I hadn't really enjoyed quilting up until that point, but I did enjoy the end result, and the end result was for my daughter. So it kind of was like, well, you just get through it and you do it. And then there was the shift and I realized, you know, actually, I really I really like this and I feel like I'm doing something that I enjoy and there's something at the end of it that I enjoy. But also, I mean, I, over the years, I've tried my hands at various different things that I've just tried. So it could have been painting or it could have been sewing bags or it could have been so many other things that I have. You know, I've I've tried as well, and I think that has been the process of like, okay, so what, what? What is it that I love? What is it that I want to do? What is it that I want to do for me?
Speaker 2:I think the big thing for me, when it came to making especially like traditional quilts, was I was scared of rejection because I'm not the most accurate piecer. You know, I've realized that I do this for my mental health and my joy, and how that manifests is that, yes, sometimes there might be the odd wonky seam and that I'm okay with that. But I don't think I think that was. I was thinking I'm not on the same level as other quilters. But when you start putting your stuff out there, like on social media, you've got to face the very real fact that you're going to get rejection and you're going to get people criticizing you. And I think what I've had to learn is that you, you kind of have to do it scared, you have to do it in the in the face of rejection anyway. And most recently there have been companies that I've been speaking to or that have approached me about working with them, and I've been super to, or that have approached me about working with them and I've been super excited, and then it hasn't happened and there has been that you know that rejection.
Speaker 2:And I have really had to change my mindset of like once, once there is a yes, then there is a path and it's there and it's clear. But once there's clear, but once there's a no, that path might close, but every other path in the world just opened up Suddenly. You're not just on one path, you're on every other path, has just opened up as a possibility, and so that, for me, has been a mindset, which I think all of this journey is. It's a mindset, and once you're able to shift that mindset and I'm still not there I mean, you know, a big brand kind of turned me down recently and it took me a few days to bounce back from that. But it's taken me a few days and soon it will be, you know, a day, and then it will be a few hours, as opposed to what it used to be, which would be a few weeks or a month, you know. And so it's this whole journey really, I've realized, is based on my mindset and changing my mindset and not having somebody dictate anymore where my value is.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, can we, on that note, can we talk about the church for a second there then, Because that's a beautiful point to come back to it, because you've said there about having not having other people dictate what your value is. And I wanted to talk to you about the church because you have said you are no longer a practicing member of the church. Now, it's interesting because I was talking to Trudy Wood a few days ago and she was saying that you know she was in a very dark place and very depressed, but actually it was finding the church for her and finding religion or faith maybe faith more that has helped her to come out of it. Now, perhaps that was because she was, during COVID times, very isolated. You know she's not married, you know her children are all grown up and moved away, so she felt very alone and so for her, that sense of community, I think, has helped her.
Speaker 1:But so for you, the community, the church, that didn't work for you. So at what point did you realise it wasn't working for you? Was this something you had always been brought up around as a child? Are your family very religious? How did it happen? The whole church association and then the disassociation? What happened there?
Speaker 2:So no, I wasn't brought up Christian. My family, you know, they believe there are many different paths and there's not any one path, and that's how I was raised. It was when I just had my daughter. So I was young. When I had her I was like 26 and Jason was traveling a lot and so I was on my own. And I realized now, looking back, there was probably some degree of like postpartum depression, because I just had this crippling fear that something was going to happen to her, just this awful fear that something was going to happen to her. And at that time in my life the people that came around me were people from church and I would like to say I joined completely through love and that I was loved into the church. But there was a big part of it that was fear for me, because not only was I now concerned with trying to be the best mum I could be for Maddie, but I was also concerned with the fact that I wasn't a Christian and is my baby going to go to hell if anything happens to her? So it was just a very confusing time.
Speaker 2:I became a Christian and then that within six months of me becoming a Christian, we got the call to move to America for my husband's job for a year and we landed in what they call the buckle of the Bible belt. So I went and basically, at that point the first thing you do is you land and then you you find your church home and that's what I did and out of that have come some friendships that you know to this day I still consider to be like my closest friends, but they are the closest friends that I can say, have known me as a Christian for over a decade and have have been good friends to me there. But also when I've come back and I'm not, you know, someone who goes to church anymore they still love me and they still they're not trying to change my mind. They're still walking by my side and being a support. Walking by my side and being a support, and that has I mean honestly that has shown me everything that is said about Jesus's love and everything. These are the people that have shown me that, the ones that haven't turned their back on me, the ones that don't say that, haven't said to my face I think you're on a dark path now. You know it's been the ones that have been by my side, going what are you, what's, what are you going through right now? Talk to me about it and we walk through it. They're not afraid that I'm going to drag them down with me. They, they just they. They're just my friends and I'm their friend, and just like I don't try and convince them of anything, they don't with me and we're just doing life together. You know, and that, to me, has been hugely impactful.
Speaker 2:I was not anticipating that. I found that when I stepped away from the church in England, I lost everybody, anyone that was remotely attached to the church. They didn't want to know, and so I was completely expecting that when we moved over here as well, and that just hasn't been the case. And now I can tell you that these friends and I that have this friendship that is based on complete authenticity, it's such a deep friendship, such a deep friendship I know that I could tell them anything and they're me, and we'd walk through it together. Regardless of that, our faiths don't align anymore, and I could actually say now I'm not a religious person anymore, but I am more faith filled now than I ever have been, and I tell you what.
Speaker 1:I'm also happier now than I ever have been, yeah, and that's good to see, that's good to see. But I think it comes as well from your mindset, dee, because I mean, there are so many pieces of the puzzle here that kind of fall into place, don't they? And when you said earlier about your mindset changing and I loved that what you said about the paths, that if one path is closed, that means a whole load of just opened up, which is fantastic way to look at it, would have just opened up, which is a fantastic way to look at it. And if you're on a path that is the wrong path for you, you're just going to find dead ends, aren't you? Because it's not the right place for you, and so it's just going to be a dark journey. So, as you say, when you become authentic, you will then meet authentic people who will love you for yourself. You know it's interesting. The other day I read what is the word opposite love? What's the opposite of love?
Speaker 2:isn't it like complete disinterest?
Speaker 1:I read I mean, you know this is only someone's opinion, but I read that the opposite of love is fear. Now, we think about that. I think that's so true because you said earlier on, you mentioned the word fear and afraid three times I think so far. And it's really interesting because, just in terms of, let's talk about you, you did the class for me, right? That's something that you wanted to do. You loved doing it. You got a lot out of it. You loved doing it. You got a lot out of it.
Speaker 1:But if you were fearful of it and you chose fear instead of that love, well then you've just chosen the opposite, haven't you Chosen the opposite direction? So I think you can equate it to so many things. And if you had stayed in the church and stayed on that path because of the fear of losing people, you wouldn't have experienced the love that you have experienced from all of these fantastic, genuine friends, because you're being your authentic self. And it's likewise, if you're frightened of doing something because of the consequences or because of what you think might happen, particularly if it's in love, of what you think might happen, particularly if it's in love, um, then you're holding yourself back from that love from that genuine affection, that genuine friendship, that genuine relationship, that genuine person. If you are living your life in fear, you are definitely not going to get true love. You might be some the.
Speaker 2:The point in time when the switch came because I've been wearing a mask my whole life and being what people needed me to be and actually doing that in a church setting was was easy, because there are so many rules, there are so many parameters and there are so many right things you do and wrong things you do that actually putting that mask on and doing that for over a decade, you know was it just followed along with who I was. And I think the point came where the fear of losing the people because I dropped my mask and because I was finally at the point that I was fearful that I was going to completely lose myself, that that is the point where I said I need to take a breath here, I need to take a step back. Something in me is deeply unhappy and has been deeply unhappy for a long time, and I need to figure this out. And I didn't't know what it was. I didn't know what. I didn't know if the church was a part of it. I just know I needed to step away in order to really try and figure this out. That was at the point that I know I started scaring people because I know all of a sudden.
Speaker 2:You know, for my entire existence, especially my entire existence in a church setting, I had been a people pleaser. What do you need from me? It was never about me, it was always, ever about you. It was about the church. It was like what could I do for you? Be kind of stepping away from that and just saying to people do you know what I am? I'm, I'm not happy and I haven't been happy in a long time, and I need to figure this out right now.
Speaker 2:I didn't know if I was going to lose my marriage. I didn't know if I was going to lose Jason's family, everything that was based on or had something to do with religion. I had to be ready to let that go in order to finally find out who I was completely, and I didn't know. I wasn't going to go back. I the only thing I knew at the time is that I need a break from this. I didn't know if I was going to move back to America and decide, okay, okay, well, I'm ready. I think I'm ready. Let's try and find a church that I can fit into, but it just it. It's not. It's not where I am now.
Speaker 1:I think when you know, you know, and I think maybe what you were telling yourself was you were giving yourself that safety blanket. You know, well, I can go back, I can go back, but I just need some space. But I think that we know that that safety blanket is is going to be sent down, the charity shot and you ain't going to see it again.
Speaker 2:The thing that this has shown me is that I've finally been able to identify when I'm picking my mask back up. So if I'm picking my mask back up and having to go back into a situation where I'm having to hide me, then that's the situation that is not a safe place for me and that's the situation that I need to not be in. So I will never choose to be in those situations again that I need to not be in. So I will never choose to be in those situations again. I will never choose to be in those rooms again, because if me is not enough just as this, just as I am then this is not the place for me, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's a beautiful thing. I just want to go back to something you said about you know, scaring people, and I think that what happens when you start to change in yourself and, as you say, it takes such bravery and courage I mean, you remind me a bit of when I was talking to Ben Millett, of course and he left the Mormon church still took a huge amount of bravery and courage for him to take that final step and say I can't live this mask, under this mask anymore. And the same for you, dee. You were very brave and courageous in giving yourself that time. And yes, it will scare people, because I think when you start to do that, it does then make someone else question. They might look and go, ooh, do I need to be looking at me? Or it starts to rock their foundations a little bit, and some people are just not ready, or never will be, to look at themselves and change and do the work, because it is hard work.
Speaker 1:But I think what you've said there, what was fantastic when you have done that work, is that you know when you're being inauthentic. And that's the really shocking thing, isn't it? Because that happened to me, that I have slipped back on occasion into the old Rachel, maybe just see how it feels. Sometimes it feels horrible and I sit there and go. Who don't like this version and you want to get out of it again. But that can be quite unsettling as well. I think that's the thing, dee. When you stepped out of that mask-wearing Dee, you weren't just leaving people behind and this is one of the hardest things when you have to heal and do the work. You were actually leaving the old d behind as well, and that's quite difficult because you do have to leave a version that you've been carrying around of yourself for so long behind. You have to go.
Speaker 2:This is where we part ways now, and it's very hard it's finding a whole new way of being, because, ultimately, that deed my husband had been married to at that point for like 13 years or something, which is why I had I didn't have a huge expectation that that, you know, I'm like I don't know what's going to happen to the marriage, because the submissive homemaker that I had been for all of that time which is kind of crazy, because that's not who he married this, you know, this wild girl who hadn't been brought up in faith is who he fell for, and then I became something completely different, but I had been that person for over a decade, and so there was a part of me that I had no idea whether, you know, he would want to hang around, like he has FYI, next month it will be 22 years, but it's been hard on him as well, because I'm not that person anymore.
Speaker 2:I'm not the person that was in America 10 years ago or that, you know, went home with him in 2014. So it you have to be ready to lose everything, I think, but I was so, so deeply unhappy and I think what started to impact me is like, what am I showing my children right now? You know this mother, that's like trying to tick all the boxes, but she's not doing it with any joy. I'm not showing them. This is how you live. I'm like, this is how you get through each day and I just I just thought that there's. There's more than this, you know, and that's how I ended up, at the point where I was willing to lose everything because I knew I couldn't live another day meeting everybody else's expectations and just completely letting myself down down.
Speaker 1:You know, jim Carrey, in one of the Instagram things that I saw once, said that depression and I know you and I have talked about how we both suffered from depression Depression is the body's way of saying and swear alert coming people swear alert. But in his really said depression is the body's way of saying I'm not wearing this mask anymore, and I think he's so right. I think you get to that point where you're lost, you're empty, you're going on empty, you're fake, you can't function, you are depressed and I think that is the body's way of going. What are we doing here? It's like your higher soul is saying to you what are we doing here? Why are we in these places? Why are we with these people? What are we doing?
Speaker 1:And you sink further and further until eventually, as we know, depression can lead to people having complete breakdowns and worse than that. So you have to. It's like you're falling down a black tunnel and you're scratching at the walls, trying to catch the wall somehow to climb up, and thankfully, you did, dee, thankfully, you got a fingernail on that wall and you were like no, you know, and I think that's the words we have to say to ourself, no, or as jim perry says you know you do. You have to go no more if that means disappointing and I'm saying in inverted commas other people. They are not you and it is not their life. It's your life and you have to make those decisions for yourself Because, as you said, dee in the end with your children, and if it had led to the breakup of your marriage, it would have been incredibly sad. But you would have been your authentic self, your husband. If he felt he couldn't be with you as you were now, he would find someone who was more suited to him. You would find someone who was more suited to you.
Speaker 1:It happens. People grow, they change. There's nothing worse, I think. I mean I come from a broken home and I think that people say I'm going to stay in the marriage for the children. I know it's admirable and it's noble, but actually is it more damaging to the children? Because they talking about vibrations again.
Speaker 1:They hear the arguments, they feel the tension, they see the looks that the mom and dad give each other. You know, when the shopping is brought in, what are you looking for? They pick up on these little things all the time and then they'll end up having relationships based on the relationship they grew up with and they'll go into relationships with those values or that's my belief and that's my experience, because that's what happened to me. So I think that you know when you find yourself you may have to in inverted commas disappoint other people, but actually it's your life. You have to do what you need to do. You will find your tribe and in the end, your family may well come around to accepting what you've done and that it was the best case scenario for everyone well, I think.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes it's hard for people to see, like on the outside, I live in an amazing house in Tulsa because Tulsa is so cheap and you know they do see my life and I have this, you know, big sewing room and think of just how lucky no, there's nothing cool about me how lucky I am.
Speaker 1:No, no, a pool A pool. I said, Dee, you have a. How lucky I am. And actually a pool a pool. I said you know who Post Malone is? That's cool. I did not know who Post Malone was. I just saw a man with lots of tattoos. I was like who is that?
Speaker 2:I'll take that. But the reality of this is that you know, since 2018, me and my husband have fought for this marriage. It's not been like we've both had to go into counselling. We've both had to, for years and years, put the pieces back together. You know, try and figure out how did we get to this place? This hasn't been a case of me going oh, that's it. I'm just going to leave the church now and you know, we've just moved back to America and skipped down the road.
Speaker 2:This is like this has been a choice that we've made, that we're going to fight for this and we're going to stay and we're going to fight. And that's what people don't see. You know, I think people like to look and go oh, you've got such a blessed life and I do, and I just know it. There's not a part of any day now that I don't think I am so lucky. I'm so lucky having my husband. I'm so lucky with the children that we have. I am so lucky living in this place. I don't take any of that for granted, because at one point, I didn't think I was going to have it anymore. But ultimately, we made the choice to fight for this and you know, we're still fighting to this day to make sure that this is the path we're on and this is the path that both of us are still willing to be on, you know yeah, but that's once again by being honest, as you said.
Speaker 1:You're doing counselling by being honest with yourself and with each other. That's not by just putting a mask on or putting a sticking plaster on and going hope it's just, all is fine, because it won't work. You know, sticking plasters don't work. They come off eventually. Can I just ask you as well, though, dee, where did the you know? You said earlier that you always felt all of your life that you had to people please. You had to do the right thing, you had to do what everybody else wanted. Where did that come from then?
Speaker 2:I think, from just a basic level. I think we're both Gen Xers, so we were the generation that you know. Mum and dad were both working and you know, you, you, you I hate to say it because it's not completely true, but you kind of raise yourself a lot of the time and you get to learn what, what is dangerous and what will make life easier, and I think just going along with what other people needed from me was easier at the time, and so I think I think that's probably where it started. But you know there's so much unpacking you have to do to get to the place where you fully grasp okay.
Speaker 2:Well, how did I end up here? And I think it was just the perfect storm of being like a shy child, intensely sensitive, being able to pick up on other people's moods, and so by that, you know, by that I would, then, if I could sense there was an issue, then it was my job to try and fix it. But I'm surprised I didn't find religion sooner, honestly, because it answered, it gave me an easy solution for so long on how to, exactly how to be that I'm. I'm baffled that I didn't find it before I was 26, honestly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was the easy solution that you thought you could be through it?
Speaker 2:You just you tick the boxes. So okay, well, don't drink anymore. So you should probably give up smoking. So you know, it was just like you had somewhere to go on a Sunday that you had to tick that box. And especially when we moved from England to America the first time, my whole world became the church, because I wasn't allowed to work over here. I didn't have a work visa.
Speaker 2:So suddenly WorkD, who had always been probably the thing that anchored me because at work I could somewhat be myself, I didn't have that anymore and so everything kind of, especially here in Tulsa, everything for me revolved around the church. So they were my friends, were in the church, my social time was in the church and from things that were being said within the circles I was in, I knew well that behavior is looked down upon, you know, or people don't like it when you do that. So it was kind of like a quite clear set of rules that it you know. For the longest time I thought well, this is. I guess this is kind of easy to follow, because at least I have a blueprint. Now you know, and this is all subconscious, this is not a conscious thing either, um, so yeah, it made it easy. It made it like for the people pleaser in me.
Speaker 1:It made it a very easy path to take but the wrong path, and that's the thing we do take. We take the easy paths, don't we? Until we, as I say, until we get darker and darker and darker and full of despair and then get depressed, we will keep taking easy paths because that's what human beings will do.
Speaker 1:Take the easy paths. Who wants to take a difficult path? Who wants to do anything that's hard? No, we want to take the easy path until we know it's time to take the hard path. And then we do, and then, when we're on it, we have to really stick to it. Well, you mentioned to me a few days ago d that you were talking to a friend of yours who is sadly suffering from terminal cancer and you said that she had said something to you that was very profound and you wouldn't tell me it was because she said I want to save it for our tour. So what is this? What tell me about this?
Speaker 2:oh, I feel like I'm really gonna mess this up. So a couple of weeks ago I went to Chicago for a quilt thing. It was kind of last minute and as I was getting off the plane, I that just floored me and had me shaking, and it's not really something I can go into, but let's just put it this way. It had me in a place where I was like, oh my gosh, I don't, I shouldn't be here, I just want to go home. And so I had to kind of feel like I had to wear a mask that day because I was seeing all of these industry people. But there was one lady I bumped into called Dara, and she's a life coach for quilters. There was another lady, teresa, actually, that I ended up chatting to as well and I told them look, this is what's just happened and I don't know what to do. And Dara said to me so how are you feeling about that? And I said to her I just want to go home. I just want to go home and I just want to do all the normal things that I usually do for my family, like I just want to, that's what I want to do. And she said, well, of course you do because that's your safe place, and I thought you know what that's so completely spot on. And I thought you know what that's so completely spot on.
Speaker 2:And then a couple of days ago I was having a hard time with being so far away from my best friend of 35 years who is going through this journey of metastatic breast cancer, and I just ended up sending her a message saying I feel so useless.
Speaker 2:I feel like if I was there at least I could try and do something like feed you or something. And she responded back to me and she said I just need you to be normal. And I think at that moment the correlation between the two incidents and the fact that all I wanted to do was get back to my normal and all she needed from me was just be normal, be you that it's kind of struck me how big that is. The safety of like being completely authentic and completely who you are is so safe. It's a place where you feel at your safest because you've got your safest people around you. And I haven't entirely worked that thought through to its natural conclusion, but I think there, I think what it's opened up to me is that there is this unexpected joy. I think people can find in normal that I didn't ever know really was there, but it completely is that's so true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you have. You have just worked that through now, because that statement at the end that's what it is. It's finding the joy in being normal, and when we say normal, we mean our most relaxed, authentic beings, being ourselves, being normal, not being this exuberant person we feel we should be, or this person who should be quieter than we feel we should be because people are judging us, or whatever it is. It's to be our authentic self and that's where the joy lays. That's where the joy lays. That's where the joy lay. Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. And how lovely for her that she's got you as a friend and she can say that to you. I just need you to be normal. That's very, yeah, that's very poignant.
Speaker 2:I got to go home and see her last month. She's having some quite aggressive treatment at the moment, so I got to go home and then take her to a few of these treatments. And I think, looking back now, because when you're in this situation, it's just like you're just treading water, you know, because you're tired, you're jet lagged the reason you're there is absolutely horrific. You try not to focus on that. You just tread water and you just try and be in the moment. And I can look back at some of those times now that I was taking her to these awful appointments. And actually there were these moments of sheer joy, of like being that age where we'd go to a garden center together and have lunch and be really excited because we were at the garden centre, you know, or finding something funny that had happened to her, would have really impacted me. And now they are so special to me, these normal little moments in time that I know will. I will cherish, absolutely cherish, and the realization that I was there for this hideous reason of cancer.
Speaker 2:But the cancer wasn't the reason I was there. I was there for her. I was there because we've been best friends for 35 years and we've stuck around because we actually like each other. You know, that's why I was there and yeah, it was. It was. I guess Glennon Doyle, you know, says Things can be brutal and they can be beautiful and they're called brutal and I think that was that kind of summed up that trip. For me it was like these beautiful moments but this brutal reason, you know.
Speaker 1:We're kind of back to where we started at the beginning of the chat, dee, because we said that out of darkness can come this profound learning and profound joy, which is what you did with your daughter, making sure you stayed next to her and making that quilt, and then having that experience together with billy eilish, um, and then we've come full circle at the end, where you just said there, yeah, I love that brutal and beautiful is. Did you say it's brutiful?
Speaker 2:yeah brutiful.
Speaker 1:That's what glenn and that's yeah brutiful yeah, and that's so true because that's you know, yeah, and and and that is also a really great way to look at things as well, and you were talking about mindset earlier. I think that's the way we have to look at our life and things that have gone terribly in inverted commas, again wrong, because I'm not sure anything does go wrong I think everything actually goes right for us. I think we have these moments of brutality, we have these dark moments, we have these incredibly sad moments, but actually they're all there to teach us. People come into our lives. They will hurt us like hell for us to learn, for us to find ourselves, for us to think how did I get myself into that in the first place? Why did I stay so long? We learn about ourselves and the opposite. Why did I do that to that person? Why did I hurt that person like that? What was I running from to do that? These are all things that we, you know. It's whether we take on the learning and some people don't, and then other people, like you, do.
Speaker 1:So well done to you, dee. I'm very proud of you. That sounds really condescending, but I am, I am, I am proud. I'm proud of anybody who goes. I'm proud of anybody who goes on a a healing journey and and just says enough, enough of this. I have to do something, and you did. You've done great things, so what does the uh? What does the future hold for this new D? Apart from you with your over the knee boots and your short skirts? That's got you another 12 Instagram followers. That's all I'll say.
Speaker 2:Deep me saying that I mean not people watching you I mean me saying that I've been working on a website for two years so I'm getting ready to launch that, hopefully this summer it's. This has been another lesson in like I could go for the next two years tinkering with this thing and being scared to put it out there, but I know I've just got to press, go and and see what happens. So that's kind of my main, my main focus at the moment. But just oh my gosh, I think the main part of this journey so far for me has been meeting the other people and just enjoying these other people, these other friendships that I've met that are just becoming so special to me, you know. So that has been like the biggest gift in this whole journey so far.
Speaker 1:Honestly and that's lovely as well to hear. So it's not about riches and, and I will say as well, about your website that you're launching. You know, a fantastic thing about it is the website is going to be including software that can help people to make a pixel quilt, like you have, of people's faces, so they'll be able to put in their mom's face and program it and then get all the little pieces and make a quilt, and it's the software to be able to do that, and that's fantastic that you're giving that. You know there could be so many people who go, no, I want to keep that, and it's the software to be able to do that, and that's fantastic that you're giving that. You know there can be so many people who go no, I want to keep that to myself. It's fantastic that you're you know you're putting that out there.
Speaker 1:It's like you can make these as well, and who knows, somebody might having a terribly dark time and then they just think, right, I'm going to make that quilt of my dog or whatever it is, you know, and that's brilliant. So hopefully that will all come to fruition very soon. I mean, you've given us so many great statements, but do you have a motto to live by? Now, is there a motto out there, something that on a dark day there's a phrase and you remember, I'm sure you remember Jim Carrey's now.
Speaker 2:I think mine changes depending on where I am, but I think the thing that I focus on at the moment because I can get very wrapped up in the details is that the best is the enemy of the good, and sometimes good enough is good enough, you know, and when we strive for the best and perfection, we are striving for a level that will just bring in so much stress. And every single one of my quilts there is some kind of flaw in them. They are never the best, but they're good. So the best is the enemy of the good.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that D and actually, you know, what I will say to you is I'm going to be. I'm going to remind you now of a Bob Marley and a quote that he said allegedly allegedly, it's probably. Somebody just wrote it on Instagram and said he said it, but apparently he did. And somebody said to him what is a perfect woman? And he said there isn't a perfect woman, there isn't a perfect person. And he said look at the moon. The moon is filled with craters and yet it's the most beautiful thing to look at.
Speaker 1:It's not perfect, it doesn't got a a perfect surface, and it's the same thing that your quilts have got flaws in them. Every single thing in the world has got flaws in them. People have flaws, people. You know it's. We're all constantly evolving and changing and learning and moving, and that's what makes this world beautiful. If it was perfect, we wouldn't learn a damn thing. If everything was perfect and rosy and we're all happy, we wouldn't learn a damn thing. If everything was perfect and rosy and we're all happy, we wouldn't learn a thing. We'd sit there going well, this is lovely, isn't it? Oh, we'd never learn anything. Sometimes you've got to sit in a really, really uncomfortable position with lots of flaws, so that you can start looking at it all and going, whoa, there's a few too many here. What can I learn from this? That's perfection.
Speaker 2:If you've got somebody or something in front of you that has something imperfect about it, then you know that. You know there's a degree of authenticity there as well.
Speaker 1:So yes, and you know, I had a midwife who came to me um 18 years ago when my daughter was a little baby and she was stuck to the booth because I did the old breastfeeding for a year I I don't know how I did that and this midwife came and I'm not kidding, I had, you know, my hair was like over my face, stuck to it probably. I had Jake's brown dressing gown on. We had no carpets. We'd just moved here. The house was a complete cesspit.
Speaker 1:And she walked in and I was so embarrassed and I sat down with her and said I'm so sorry and she said no, and she said I really worry when I go into a house with a new mom and a baby, everything is perfect. Then I know there are major problems and she said but to see you in this state, it means that you are focusing on that baby and that's good, and I always remember that. And she said anything that looks shiny, anything that's too shiny, there's something going on underneath. So yeah, that's my motto, yeah, well, thank you so much, dee, and I do think this interview has been better than the first one, mostly because I can see your face.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah.
Speaker 1:But second, I think, as I say, we've known each other a bit more now, but I would encourage anybody to go and look at your Instagram, which, of course, I've said in the beginning bit. But I would say to anybody to go and watch your Instagram because it is like watching a continual therapy session, because you're always posting these TikToks and funny things and sad things and then you'll put your comments and say this is me and my brain, and sometimes I do worry for you. What should I go? Really, that person's very distracted right now, but it's funny. It's funny and you're funny and that is what is so fabulous about you.
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes you'll do these stories where you start talking really straight laced, and then you'll say something which you realize and you're taking the absolute mickey and it's fantastic to see. And that is what life is about. It's comedy, it's joy, it's love, it's not fear, and you've got all that fear and went nope, putting you in a box, mate. So that's brilliant. So well done, d, and thank you, and I'm and I'm glad that, um, we've vibrated towards each other. I, I am.
Speaker 2:There you go. We've attracted each other. We have.
Speaker 1:We want to be together Okay.
Speaker 2:Any Brits, probably that are not our age, won't understand that. That was an advert, wasn't it? No, they weren't, it was an advert we want to be together.
Speaker 1:And actually I don't think they did in that advert, didn't they? I think the wife was kind of looking to say I don't want to be with you, mate, but he was like Birmingham accent. All right, my love. Thank you so much, until we speak the next time all righty, see you soon.
Speaker 2:See you soon, bye just before you go.
Speaker 1:lovely listener, can I ask you a favour If you have a friend who you think would enjoy listening to this podcast, would you mind please telling them about it?
Speaker 1:It helps me to spread the word and you never know, they might get a life lesson out of it or, at the very least, just have a lovely 40 minutes of relaxing time for themselves. The second thing to say is that, if you have enjoyed this, it would really help me if you would give me a little quick like or a comment, especially if you're listening on one of the podcast platforms. It just means that when anybody lands on the page, they can see that people have reviewed it. They've liked it, enjoyed it and got something out of it. So if you wouldn't mind leaving me a review, that would be amazing. And the final thing to say is that if you are a business and you're thinking how do I get my message out there, well, you could do it on this podcast. All you have to do is reach out to me, rachel, at breakingtheblockscom. The details are below in the box. Thank you so much to everybody for listening and enjoying and saying the lovely things that you're saying.
