Breaking the Blocks
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Thanks for stopping by! Life is tough, and I think this podcast might offer you some relief. My aim? To inspire you to overcome some of your own blocks through the inspirational, honest, and at times, downright raw conversations with some wonderful guests, not huge celebrities, regular people like you and I. Let’s see how they have overcome the difficulties in their lives and offer you some advice and more importantly hope.
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Breaking the Blocks
Rediscovering Self in the Whirlwind of Literary Success with Matt Eicheldinger
In this insightful episode, we engage with author Matt Eicheldinger, who returns to discuss the complexities of navigating success after achieving his dreams. With reflections on imposter syndrome, the joys of connecting with readers, and the importance of community, Matt emphasizes the significance of staying genuine through every stage of the creative journey.
• Matt shares his experiences since becoming a bestselling author
• He discusses ongoing struggles with imposter syndrome
• Finding fulfillment in interactions with young readers
• The challenges of isolation in a writer's career
• Importance of maintaining mental health and balance
• Matt's future aspirations beyond middle-grade literature
• The value of community and connection for creative growth
• Emphasizing authenticity in the journey of an artist
Well, hello and welcome back to another episode of Breaking the Blocks. I'm your host, rachel Pearman. It is lovely to have you company. So who is our guest today? Well, if you are a regular viewer of Breaking the Blocks, you'll have already met this guest before, because he was actually here, season one, episode seven.
Speaker 1:If you haven't listened to that episode, it doesn't matter, because this story is a story in itself, the story of an author who is still overcoming blocks. But if you do know the first episode, you might think well, hang on, matt got his dream. It took him 15 years to publish his book, but he did get a big publisher. He did get a big agent. He is living the dream.
Speaker 1:But what happens when you have got your dreams? Then you have to overcome the block of. Perhaps somebody might take that dream away, perhaps you might feel like an imposter, perhaps you might get writer's block. How do you write? How do you do it by yourself every single day, when suddenly you don't have all those school kids around you who were your inspiration? These are the questions that I asked Matt, and more. That's why I wanted to get him back, because in life we are constantly evolving, we're constantly facing challenges. Things don't just end when we overcome one issue. So how do we continue to strive in our lives and get the best for ourselves? So let's have a listen to what Matt had to say. I think you'll enjoy it. Well, here we are again, the wonderful Mr Matt Eicheldinger. I know how to say that. It's been actually my brain from last year, because I've seen so much of you on social media everywhere, matt. But the wonderful Matt is joining me in the studio for the second time. I feel like I need to hear applause.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to be here, though it's fun for me, so I'm glad you got me back. Yes, I'm so glad be here, though it's fun for me, so I'm glad you had me back.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, I'm so glad that you've come back, matt, and I have to say you are the only guest that has made a return to the Breaking the Block studio.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll take it.
Speaker 1:Always, always getting firsts. You are, you know, in terms of like taking forever to publish a book and then suddenly like how many? Now it five.
Speaker 2:I mean it's like yeah, it's a lot, it's. It just keeps coming, thankfully yeah, it just keeps coming.
Speaker 1:Well, no, it is lovely to have you here, matt, and uh, for anybody who is just thinking, hang on, when, what, how?
Speaker 1:Well, there is an episode it was one of the first episodes of breaking the blocks and anybody can go back and check that out.
Speaker 1:Season one uh, to hear matt's story about how he did indeed take 15 years to get published on the one book, not several books along the way, it was one book that he battled with and then, amazingly, after all of that strife, didn't give in and got the book published. And now a huge success which we will talk about in this podcast the book published and now a huge success which we will talk about in this podcast. So I am really fascinated to hear now about your journey in the last year, matt, and the reason I've got you back is because, yes, you did break a very big block in getting your book published, but then you've got to break that next block because it's like the second album syndrome. It's like, can you beat the success and do you have imposter syndrome and actually now are you terrified of losing what you've achieved. So these are all the questions, and more, that I think we need to discuss in this show today.
Speaker 2:I'm really excited for the focus too, and, for those of you who hadn't watched the first episode, when you reached out to me, that was only like my second or third podcast ever, but I was getting so many inquiries and you did such a fabulous job saying what exactly you wanted to talk about. So it's really cool, just as a guest, from a guest perspective, to come on and have like an itinerary of what we're going to focus on, and so I was excited to like dive into something new. It's not just like a. This isn't just like a what's going on with Matt update. This will get into some like nitty gritties of like what it, what it's like to have imposter syndrome I think that's what we're talking about and then all the things that happen in between, all that fear that looms over your head. So I'm excited to be here and get into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean, I would have just had you back on to have a chat and a ginger biscuit, quite frankly, but I think it was something that you wrote, you know, a few months after the success started hitting and I thought, oh, I think you talked about being anxious or nervous or something, and I thought, yes, yes, we need to get you back on to talk about that anxiety. So here we are. Let me just begin with a statement on your website. Let's begin there, because when I went onto your website, I read this and I wondered if, when you read this on your own website, you still have to kind of blink and think is this for real? Is this, is this?
Speaker 1:Have I just come across the right Matt Eichelding, or is this the other one? Because it says his first middle grade book, the first in the Matt Sprout series, was an instant USA Today and New York Times bestseller right In his first week of publication. In the same year, his first adult book, sticky Notes Memorable Lessons from Ordinary Moments, was an immediate US Today bestseller, and he is set to release five more books in the next two years. Okay, let's talk about this, because I mean, you know just USA Today, new York Times, then another book and then another five. How does this feel for you, matt?
Speaker 2:It feels pretty validating is what I'll say just because of I took so long to publish my first book, so to to have some like titles to go along with some of my books feels really good. But really the the part that feels the best is when I get to do school visits and tell kids about that journey. That's really fulfilling and I didn't really. When I thought about becoming an author I knew that I would do school visits but I didn't really understand how it would make me feel while I'm there. So that's been a really enjoyable part, but yeah, I still. When I look at some of those titles next to my books, the first thing I think is I can't believe anyone reads what I write. That's still very bizarre to me.
Speaker 1:Well, they do in their droves, and people absolutely love what you write. You really have captured the imaginations and it is just this wonderful voice that you found this. You know that's what they say about writers, don't they? That you have to find your voice, and you have found your voice, and that voice just resonates with so many. So it's fantastic. I mean, I think when we spoke, the book was just on the verge of coming out, as I recall, or it might have just come out. So when you got to the top of that bestseller list, when you got the USA Today accolades or the New York Times accolades, how did that feel? Because that's quite a leap, I mean to get the book published, just because you were even saying to me. I remember you saying, oh it's, I'm gonna go and stand by the shelves and if it goes into the bargain bin, I'm just gonna grab them all myself and take them. I mean you were still thinking along those lines yes, we were.
Speaker 2:We were talking about the dollar bins. I remember that. Yeah, to jump to what I think a lot of authors aspire to get and just have it all of a sudden, that was pretty surreal. But immediately, as a provider, my first thought was like what does this mean for me in my future, like you know, does that mean I can write whatever I want and people just buy it? Does that mean I get more money upfront from people who want to publish my books, like I? I wanted like quantifiable numbers and statistics, and what I learned really quick is that doesn't exist.
Speaker 2:When you become a USA Today or New York Times bestseller, it's still very unpredictable and, yes, that title is very helpful. But I'm still trying to grapple with what does this mean for my future? And I think the reality of being an author is you never get to know. You just will never get to know because you're in an entertainment business, and that's really what I've been struggling with the last year is how do you manage the unknown after you've reached, basically the pinnacle of what my dream was then where are you going? What's your direction? What's your North Star? And it's been an interesting year, to say the least.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and we'll come to that a little bit later on in terms of those fears and those anxieties, but let's just focus on the positive for a second, in terms of some of the amazing experiences you've had in the last year. So can you give me an experience that was really outstanding for you, like a memorable experience of something that, yeah, was just a wonderful moment for you?
Speaker 2:So the first thing I think of is, shortly after it hit shelves and became a New York Times bestseller. I was taking screenshots of basically anything that had my name on it on the internet because I wanted to just capture the moment. But I got this picture from a parent who hadn't followed me on Instagram, who didn't know anything about me. It was just an email through my website with a picture and it was just a quick note to say, hey, my kid doesn't read. We found your book in a store. They've read it two or three times. When's your next book coming out?
Speaker 2:And that to me, was like a very real moment of okay, it really is good enough to be here because it's someone's favorite book. But I tell everyone that every kid has a favorite book, and it doesn't have to be yours. And you might write a book that sells 100,000 copies or 10 copies, but within that 10 to 1,000, 100,000, it's going to be someone's favorite book, and when a kid tells you that, it's really moving. So to hear from someone who doesn't know me as a person at all tell me that that book is someone's favorite, that was pretty cool and it was pretty emotional too.
Speaker 1:It's a double whammy that I think, because one is it's great to have that kind of compliment about your work, that it's meant something to someone, and that is the best feeling when you know you've affected someone. But I think for you as well, matt, the fact that it's a child who is reading and enjoying reading, because, as we've talked about, in this world today with digital things and playing with devices and been addicted to games, et cetera, to go back to reading is fantastic, and so for you to bring that into the world and into a child's life amazing.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah, it's a, it's a. Really it's a positive space to be in most of the time. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that was a really memorable moment. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that was a really memorable moment. Was there a moment in last year that has given you a different perspective on anything? Was there any moment you found yourself going, whoa, okay. Well, I didn't think of that that industry. So when we met, I was still very new to the industry. My book had either just hit shelves or was about to, and this past year I just feel like a sponge. I just keep learning more and more about the industry.
Speaker 2:Have written one maybe really popular book or one that resonated with a lot of people. That doesn't mean you get to write another one. So I have met Newberry Award winners, caldecott winners who have not done another book, and that's really unsettling for me, as I look forward is to know that these people, who have reached the absolute in my opinion, one of the absolute best titles of a given work, can't find another book deal. What that has forced me to do is really treat this as it's temporary, right, and because I'm treating it as it's temporary, it makes it really special because I'm anticipating it being over. So I'm just trying to cherish and do all that I can with the time that I have, because I could be done two years from now. I just don't know but that was a reality check for me too is just because I have a New York Times bestselling book, that doesn't mean this is what I get to do forever.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're a very humble person anyway, but I would imagine that that's very grounding for you as well and that does actually keep you humble when you have that attitude, and maybe that will actually help you to succeed. Because maybe if people do let it go to their head in a way, maybe they take the foot off the gas and they think it's all just going to keep rolling in, and that's when actually things stop.
Speaker 2:It could be. I am really starting to cherish the idea of people who really understand me and understand my work, and not so much about growth Like it's really tempting to chase growth on social media, and there's a lot of things that I could do that would help with growth and get me maybe more well-known. Um, but that also comes at the sacrifice of being genuine to who you are and what you want your kids to see when they're growing of what their dad was doing online. So, um, I do think coming at it from a genuine way might be the way to make this longer, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about social media for a second, because, you know, when I approached you, I can't remember how many followers you were on, but I want to say it was something like I don't know, was it 100,000, 150,000?, was it higher than that? I don't't know. But you're now on, like what? 345 000 on instagram.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. Collectively I think I'm over half a million yeah, it's crazy. But yeah, at the time, I think we, I think I was in the middle of like a growth period, so it was coming at me fast yeah has your social media changed then?
Speaker 1:has it? Because obviously, as you've grown, there's twofold to that question. So have the interactions changed on social media towards you in your continued success.
Speaker 2:Not really. I think what's changed is I get a lot of people now who follow me who don't know my backstory and I wish I could tell them all, because I think, if you come is I get a lot of people now who follow me who don't know my backstory and I wish I could tell them all, because I think if you come to my platform now, what you see is a guy who tells stories and a guy who has a decent number of followers and oh yeah, he's gotten book deals. And what I want to scream all the time is you don't know where I started. I really want you to know where I started so you can understand the process that it took me to get here, and that's why I'm really thankful Like there's a lot of people who joined me right at the beginning and I really do feel like we've traveled together.
Speaker 2:And I haven't even found an adequate way to say thank you to my followers, because I've seen videos like that and it can come off really cheesy, but I really need to understand. I need people to understand like, hey, if it wasn't for you showing up and like listening to stories and buying my books, I would not get to continue doing what I'm doing. If I was back in the classroom, I would stop social media. I would not continue social media. So that relationship has been a little bit different as I've grown. The comments have been generally positive, but I've still been shocked when I get these random negative comments sent through my website or through a direct message. That's a little unsettling sometimes, but overall most of it's positive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did see a comment the other day and I responded to it, because someone said something about kids not liking these cheesy stories and these cheesy phrases.
Speaker 2:Someone had commented that the stories that I tell are too cheesy, or the things that I tell are are too cheap, or the things that I say to kids are too cheesy and would never work in real life, and so that was the first time I've actually responded to a comment publicly and I blurred out their name and I wasn't arguing with them. I just said you know, not all kids hear things like that when they grow up, and so, yeah, you may have heard them, and so then they do sound cheesy. If they've been told, if you've been told, you matter every single day, maybe it starts to lose its value, but some kids never hear that. But yeah, those those negative comments are few and far between.
Speaker 1:I've got a question for you which is a bit sort of left field, but I noticed as well when you started to get your success, there were a few comments on your social media feeds where people were saying oh, you're not going to stop teaching though, are you? You are going to keep teaching because we need teachers like you in the classroom. And I was like but you know, people change and people grow, and he's had this dream and now he's fulfilling his dream. But there was a bit of something there. How did that make you feel?
Speaker 2:You are the first person to address that, and so I want to be delicate in how I respond to, because I am. They are compliments, right. Like people are saying, you must be a good teacher. Please go back to the classroom. Our kids need you, and I'm.
Speaker 2:I agree that good teachers are needed in the classroom, but it's hard because if you don't know my journey, you don't know how long I've worked to do this, and so I don't. I usually don't respond to people to tell them the whole backstory, but what I wish people knew is that teaching is very difficult and I think all teachers could benefit from a break, like I've wondered too, when I go back to the classroom because I think I will at some point will I be a better teacher? I think I might be. I think I might be a better teacher when I go back because I've had a break to remember who I am, to be with my own family, to explore creatively things that I've wanted to make.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's hard when you see messages sometimes that say you know, I hope you go back next year, you shouldn't be doing this or that you should be with the students because they need you, and that makes it feel like I have some moral obligation to go back, when the obligation, first and foremost, is to my family and to myself, and the reality of being a teacher for me was I was not coming home my best self and I was not the best husband and the best father. And so to have the opportunity to put my kids on the bus, stay home with them when they're sick, go on walks with my wife, these are things I cherish greatly and would be very hard to give up and go back to teaching. But, that being said, I am planning to return at some point. I'm just saying that there's been so many benefits to my personal life while being outside the classroom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I'm going to be a bit of a cheeky little elf here now, a little imp. Now, Matt, I'm going to say are you really thinking about going back? Or is that your ego protecting you and saying, if this doesn't work out, we can go back? So let's say we're going to go back.
Speaker 2:No, you can be cheeky and ask that question. I'm pretty transparent. No, my plan. I fully anticipate that at some point I'll need to go back.
Speaker 2:Right now I'm still kind of in the peak of signing book deals. Like I'm always shocked when they say, yes, let's do another book. I'm like, are you kidding me? Okay, and so, um. So there's.
Speaker 2:You know, there's that aspect of Matt. I'm writing these books. But I also started to do like keynote events and like go talk at universities and colleges to first year kids and that feels like the classroom cause I am teaching. And so one of the things I've thought about doing when I go back to the classroom is maybe I'm not in the same grade, maybe I'm at a college level and I'm doing I'm a professor Eicheldeger teaching first year college kids who want to go into the education field. So there's a lot of different avenues that I have yet to explore and I'll start to explore them more when I start to see the light at the end of the tunnel for being an author and when I say that I mean doing it full time. I think if I were to go back to the classroom in any capacity, I would still try and write, but right now there's no way I could be teaching and doing what I'm doing now. I would not have the capacity or the time to do it.
Speaker 1:And you strike me very much as a person who wants to put their heart and soul into things. You know, when you were teaching, your heart and soul was in it, but you also knew that you had this dream that you wanted to do, which you've now achieved. So I think you will go where you need to go, when you need to go. I think you'll find that within yourself and you'll go. Now it's time. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like every part of the step has very the decisions have been pretty clear when I needed to make a decision. I'm very thankful for that, too is I haven't really had to sit and mull over choices. They've just kind of been very, very clear. So let's hope that continues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will. Yeah, Well, let's go back to the stage where your book has been published. You've got the New York Times accolades, it's all gone well, and then now you have to start working on the next book. Did those feelings start to come in, those fearful feelings, those anxiety-ridden feelings of, oh my, what have I done? I am now on the fastest train that I wanted to get on. How do I stop this train? But I don't want to stop this train. When did that start to kick in for you?
Speaker 2:Honestly, it's every time I open up my computer to type. I have to battle it in some way, shape or form, and some days it's stronger than others. But the first time I felt it was so, when the first book released and became a New York Times bestseller, I was in the middle of writing the the second Matt Sprouts book, and I hadn't written another book since I was. I hadn't written a book since I was 21. Cause that's when I wrote Matt Sprouts. So the first thing was, oh, can I actually write another book? And so I did, and it was kind of hectic and a little messy because I didn't really understand my writing process, nor did I even remember really how I did it when I was 21. And so, writing the second Matt Sprouts book, and then, as well as sticky notes, a lot of it was just trying to figure out my own process, my process.
Speaker 2:That's when I felt like I was doing something I shouldn't be doing. I'm like, oh, other authors would have figured this out by now. But over the past year I've really started to understand what it's like to be a writer and how I write and how other people write and we're different and that's okay, and so, yeah. The first moment I felt it, though, was writing that second book, but again, every single time I open up a computer, you are met with all those thoughts of well, someone like this. Is this the right word, the right sentence? Am I? Should I have not done this book deal Like it's? It's just, it's constant.
Speaker 1:And so how have you personally got over those fears then? Because you know that is known as writer's block. You know, which is probably what made me name this podcast I just thought of writer's block breaking the blocks so you're a perfect person to talk to. How do you overcome that block? Because that is terrifying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thankfully I've been able to continue writing while I'm thinking about that stuff, so it's never prevented me from being productive. However, something that I've had to really limit myself on doing is I'm in this weird space of still learning the industry and I want to learn from other authors. But also when I go look at what other authors are doing, I get extremely jealous and I start to think of what they're doing and their successes, and why am I not in that publication or why is my book not being recognized for that? And so I kind of have had to cease research. So I don't look for other authors as much as I used to, and that forces me just to be in my own head, and that's okay, I can deal with me.
Speaker 2:It's when I can't deal with the what other people are doing is where my mind starts to spiral. So it kind of goes back to being genuine in who you are. I feel like if I'm doing this in the way that I want to do it and I'm not trying to replicate what other people are doing, then at the end of the day, when this is over you know, next year, two years from now, whenever it is I can look back and go oh, I was doing the best that I knew how to do, and that's the most I can ask of myself. So that's how I battle it.
Speaker 1:Matt, this is twice. Now you said when this is over in two years? No, stop saying this, You're manifesting it. Stop saying it. Why are you saying this to yourself? Because to me that seems like when I went to drama school and I would go. Well, if this doesn't work out, I can go and do something or other. Because inside I was frightened that it wasn't going to work out, that I wasn't going to be an actor. So it's having that plan B, but you are a writer.
Speaker 2:I am, I haven't even introduced myself that much as an author but I think one of the reasons I say two years and that's an arbitrary number, like it's not tied to anything I could say three or four, but I think the reason that comes out is it feels like less pressure. I think if I were to say I'm going to do this forever, it feels like my foot has to be on the gas and I have to be constantly producing and making and creating and pitching. And when I say two years or four years, then it feels like, okay, I can just relax because I know that feels like a reasonable timeline that I can comprehend and I can know how much I can do in that time. And so, yeah, could I, would I like to do this forever? Yes, but I can't. I can't see very far, and so saying two to four years is just an easy way for me to comprehend what's happening.
Speaker 1:Do you know? That reminds me and I think this is this is actually a really good way to look at it for you but that reminds me of people in like AA, alcoholics Anonymous and things like that, when they say you don't, say I will never drink again, you say I won't drink today, and then tomorrow you say I won't drink that day. And it's a similar kind of feeling, isn't it? Because if they say I won't drink forever, it's too big, it's too frightening, because they've had this addiction and it's like I can't achieve that because I, so the best thing to do is to break it into tiny days, into into tiny sections. Which is today, and in a way, you're doing the same thing. You're saying, hey, if it lasts a couple of years, because, as you've just said, yeah, the idea of I might have to do this forever and then I have to come up with all this material forever and how will I fight, then it becomes too frightening.
Speaker 2:That's a really good point that is, I've never had my journey compared to alcoholics but I, but I understand exactly. I you know, for lack of a better metaphor, that that works pretty well with the idea of dealing with what you can deal with today exactly because some of those things whether you're battling addiction or chasing a dream even that day can feel heavy, and so if you can deal with that single day, it makes the next day maybe a little bit easier or better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's how you break that block. So I want to pick up on something you said, which was, um, that when you look at other writers, or you were looking at other writers and you were getting jealous of where they were, so where where were they? That you wanted to be, because you're doing pretty well, thank, you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. Well, first of all, every author I've met has been so fabulous. Um, there's an uh author named Jarrettrett who I put out on social media hey, any of you authors, if you want to help me navigate this, reach out. And I had a National Book of the Year finalist, reach out to me. And he's got a long, successful career and we've met multiple times and he's given me so much advice. And we've met multiple times and he's given me so much advice.
Speaker 2:And I think what I get jealous of most when I view other authors is they know things that I don't. So I'll see them attend a conference and I go how did I not know about that conference? Why wasn't I told about that one? Or I'll see them doing an event that wasn't on my radar or I wasn't invited to. And so it's not so much that I'm jealous of their successes or their own journey, because everyone's journey is so different.
Speaker 2:What I am jealous of is being in the know. I want to know it all, and that's really hard when you are starting out is there's like I feel like there's this start where you learn so much right away, like everything you're absorbing, absorbing, and then you kind of plateau and you have to do your own research to find out these other things. And I'm lucky I have other people that help me, like my agent helps me. My publisher has been great at teaching me things along the way. But I still feel that if I'm not asking the right question then I miss out on stuff. And so if I do this 10 years from now, I'm sure all these questions that I have will be answered and I'll attend those conferences and I'll know how to plan ahead. But that's what I get jealous of the most is being in the know.
Speaker 1:But I guess that just comes with time, doesn't it? It's just, you can't learn everything in one go. It is about time. But I wonder if for you, matt, it took you so long to get to where you wanted to be, that I wonder if maybe that's part of the impatience, because it's like, well, now I'm here. Now I don't want to go through another 15 year journey, you know, now I just want to. I want to be here now, I want to know everything now.
Speaker 2:Yeah maybe it could be. I think part of it too is, you know, I'm in an entertainment industry and so marketing is a is everything right? Marketing, marketing is everything, and I'm lucky to have my own platform and kind of create my own brand. Um, but you have to be mindful about the constant evolution of it all. So like an easy example is when Tik TOK disappeared from the United States for 12 hours or whatever that was.
Speaker 2:That was an eye, that was an eye opener. Um, I don't utilize TikTok that much, I post to it less, but even that was like okay, well, matt, let's imagine if all social media goes away, then what are you doing, like, how do you set yourself apart? And so that's what you look at when, when you're viewing other authors is what are you doing differently? That's that's marketing. That I could maybe do as well, that that I can still do in a genuine way. So it's it's. It's like you said, though it does take a lot of time. It just takes a lot of time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And and what's really interesting that you're talking about is as well no-transcript. Can't people just look at it and go goo, goo. No, you've got to sell that baby, you've got to show it off to the world and you're like oh, that's a, that's a lot of, that's a lot of push chair activity. So yeah, this is a whole other side you don't think about, isn't it? As a writer, it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am a small business owner. The only difference is I don't really have a storefront and as I've navigated all that comes with being a small business like taxes and all that stuff I have such a greater respect for people who have to do this all the time those brick and mortar stores or mom and pop stores that have been doing this a while. It's like, wow, you are really grinding away at doing this. But yeah, being a small business owner is strange because I think people assume that I sit with like a scarf and a pipe and write the next great novel in my leatherback chair, when in reality I probably write 25% of my workday. It's about 25%.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you, matt. So you said earlier now you're getting used to what it's like as the life of a writer. So I was going to ask you what is it like now in the life of being a writer? So what's your day like?
Speaker 2:Sure, well, I'll tell you first that this is my experience and other people work very differently. So my kind of rough schedule is I wake up, help kids get ready for school and then from about seven until 11, I write maybe seven to 10 o'clock, so maybe three hours, three or four hours, or I'm illustrating one of the two and then I typically answer emails. I get anywhere from 20 to 30 inquiries a day that ask me about doing an author visit or a keynote, and then of those I have to respond to all of them. I have to create quotes for all of them. I have to think about to who's it's from. So like if a nonprofit is asking me to give a keynote but then a Fortune 500 company is, I have to keep that in mind. Or like schools that I know are in impoverished areas, like it's, it's confusing to like know what your worth is and and pitch your worth to somebody else. Um, so I do.
Speaker 2:I answered those emails for a little bit. I'll eat lunch and then I go through Instagram and social media. I try and respond to people, I try and engage. I have to post content, so I'll record a story outside. If it's not too cold, it depends on what's going on outside too. If the sun is too bright, I can't record outside. If someone's ripping through a tree with a chainsaw, I can't record. And then I come back inside and I see what's left for the day, if I didn't finish enough chapters or if I still have emails. So I joke by saying when people say, what do you, what do you do each day, I say I open up my computer and I see what's there. That's that's kind of what I have to do with, with the looming idea of oh yeah, I have to write a book and there's a deadline for it, but I think being a teacher has helped.
Speaker 1:I've had to make thousands of decisions in a given hour with kids, so managing all this stuff isn't overwhelming me. I just feel clunky. I don't quite have the rhythm yet it's coming, but I'm enjoying learningbins. The other day, talking about what makes people successful, and he said doing the reps. Someone told her doing the reps, you just run away there when you're doing that, and I think it's so true. If you imagine going to the gym, if you don't go on a regular basis, you're not going to get the results. And when you go on a regular basis as well, you might pull something because your body is not used to it. But if you go, go no, you won't go to a gym every day. But if you do something like with your writing or your discipline, and you do it every day, every day, every day, every day, that's what brings success. It's just reps, and that's what this point was saying to her. It's not about being the best or lucky, or I mean, it's just the reps. You just keep doing the work until it pays off.
Speaker 1:so that's that's what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I would say too, like, um, it's hard to because, um, in writing, sometimes I'll sit down and I'll write maybe two chapters that day and I'll go, wow, crushed it I've. I've wrote a lot of words, but then the next day I'll work for the same amount of time but maybe only write four pages, and so when you look at what I've produced, it seems very different. Um, but it requires the same amount of energy. Does that make sense? And for a while, when I started, I thought that those days where I only wrote four pages were failure days. It was like, oh, I'm not keeping up with what I did, I'm not going to finish in time. But you start to understand, like, oh, that's just part of the creative process, and it's not that I'm necessarily blocked as much as I am maybe going through the yarn of it. All right, I'm trying to pick my different yarns or all the different things I need to craft that page or that sentence, and that can just take a while.
Speaker 1:Well, once again, you just kind of asked the question I was going to ask, but you might. I don't know if there's anything you want to add to it, cause I was just going to say, I was just going to say to you do you have bad days? But I, I guess I'd take it a layer deeper. So it's not a case of not being able to write as many pages. Do you actually have a bad day sometimes, where you just have to go? You know what. I'm going to close the lid and I can't do this today.
Speaker 2:Yep, I do, and that's that's weird. The first reason it's strange to do is because my spouse is at work all day, and so it's strange for me that she comes home and she would say what'd you do today? And I would go absolutely nothing. It almost feels like a failure to say that out loud to the person you love. Um, but even she's starting to understand, like, oh, that can be part of the process. So, yeah, I've had bad days.
Speaker 2:There's days where, um, maybe I, I, I didn't get the things that I wanted, or I worked really hard and things fell through, cause the other reality is, too, is I've pitched books that haven't been rejected, but they didn't go where I thought they were going to go, and they required more time and and, and that's tough too. And so, on those days where I get frustrated, I'm having a bad day, I step away from everything. I close my computer, there's no social media. That day, I take the dog and we go outside. I have to leave the house. There's no staying here, cause if I stay here, eventually I'll open up my phone or the computer gets opened back up, and then I spiral, and so I just leave, and I'm starting to cherish those days sometimes, even though they're bad, more than the ones where I feel in the zone, and I think the reason I cherish them is because I understand the luxury of being able to do that, and not everyone gets to do that.
Speaker 2:Not everyone who works a five-day-a-week job gets the opportunity to just go. You know what? I'm just not going to show up for work today, I'm just going to go do something else and I hope that everyone in their career or whatever they're doing, at some point gets the flexibility to do it, because I got to tell you like, from a mental health standpoint, being able to just deal with a bad day and with no other responsibilities is pretty fantastic, just to take care of you. But I understand that that is a luxury and so, again, I don't know how long I get to do this, but I cherish the moments that I get to kind of just be with me.
Speaker 1:When you spiral? Because you said that, if you're in the house and start to spiral, where do you go? How far do you go down when you spiral? Because you said there, if you're in the house, you start to spiral. Where do you go? How far do you go down when you spiral? What are the thoughts that start happening in your head?
Speaker 2:oh, I'm trying to think like. I'm trying to think of, like what's the worst thought?
Speaker 1:yeah, how do we go here? How far do we go down?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, um. I think one of the one of my biggest fears is is not being understood or um, and and I don't just mean like with literature and like people reading my book and being like I don't get it, I think it just it's with everyone I work with. So that would be my agent, that would be my publisher, it would be me pitching a project and then them going like, no, we don't, we don't understand you anymore. Cause I think when, when, that, when that happens, when my agent and my publisher, whoever I'm working with, don't understand who I am anymore, that's when it's over. It's not that I can't write good, it's that they don't understand me anymore. And I haven't gotten close to that, but I've thought that before is that as soon as, as soon as they can't see me for who I am, then this is over. The other things that are kind of bottom of the barrel there do deal with just rejection of ideas, but that's also part of the process of being an author here. An easy illustration of this is so far I have not had to write the entire book in order to pitch it. Most authors have to write the entire novel and then they give it to their agent or publisher. So far, my relationship with my publisher is I show enough of the book to where they understand the idea and then I can talk through it. And that's been enough because they trust me, they know I can produce work and I meet deadlines.
Speaker 2:But there was an instance where I wanted to do something with a different voice and so I did a different type of project and I wanted to pitch it the same way. And this time my agent said we need to write probably close to half of that book before we show them. I was like that's fine, so I wrote half the book and then my agent showed somebody else in the industry and that person said this book is not good at all, like, don't pitch this, you need to rewrite completely. I was like, oh geez, Well, that took me like months. I don't have months to do this again, but we, we pitched it anyways and, uh, they liked it so much I got a three book deal, and so that's the.
Speaker 2:The reality of the industry is it's subjective. One person's going to like what you do and then it's also going to be someone doesn't like what you do, and I'm not even saying that. I disagree with what that original person said I value everyone's opinion that looks at my work because it makes you a better writer. But I get stuck in that fear, too, of what are they going to say, like just what's the basic outcome and how much work is that going to create for me?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing. Amazing, isn't it, that one person could have such a visceral reaction to it and then the opposite. You get a three book deal.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's like yep, and so then you then you wonder okay, when this reaches the reader, what side of that fence are they going to be on? Are they going to mostly be on the side that they like it, or most on the side they don't? Will this be an I told you so moment? But that's where you have to pause and you have to go back to. Okay, if I'm doing this in a genuine way, and this is who I am, my audience is out there and they will find it. It might just take a little while, and that's been my motto kind of the whole time is, everyone has an audience and you just. It just takes a little bit of time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember you saying that at the beginning of our interview and the first time and I really took that on board with you know everything I've been doing in the last year there was a moment when I thought, ooh, maybe I should try this and see if I can grow the account. And then it felt so inauthentic and I thought, no, and that's another thing Mel Robbins said recently is you have to stop questioning yourself. You have to stop, you know, stop looking at your phone and going. Shall I post that? What would I say? But what would people think? But what if someone says, no, you have to go, I'm going to post that because I like it. And if you lose people, as she says, let them go then because they weren't supposed to be in your energy in the first place, yeah, so yeah, I think it is about being been genuine, which you know you are.
Speaker 2:I want to just ask you another question, which is a big one.
Speaker 1:They've all been kind of big, but I'm ready well, I know, um, you know what you get with me, matt. You know you don't get simple questions and I don't, and most of these I know. I wrote some questions down for you, but these are not. These are coming out of my head. But okay, when you said just then, I worry that I'll get to a point where my agent or my publisher don't understand me and don't get me and don't know who I am. So my question is who are you? What do you need people to understand about you and where you're coming?
Speaker 2:from. I think I'm still kind of figuring that out. I think what I've discovered over the last year and a half is I really want people to know that I'm trying to put good into the world. There is a component of I need to make a living right, like I need to make money to support what I do, but the vast majority of what I'm trying to push forward is for the good and the betterment of people, and so you know, yes, I write middle grade literature, but there's lessons embedded in there for kids, lessons about opportunity and growth and kindness and compassion.
Speaker 2:My book Sticky Notes is that even more so. It's magnified, and so when I am thinking of other projects, I want them to reflect those core values that I'm pushing forward. So I think if someone were to meet with me and I was showcasing them a book and they were really focused on not those things, or they didn't see those things in the book, then I'd have to question oh, is my writing not reflecting that anymore, or are they just not seeing me for who I am? And where's that miscommunication coming from? Um? But I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't see that happening with um, my agent or my publisher, because they have vocalized who I am in our conversations and they understand what I'm trying to do. And so you know, if those relationships end up fizzling out which again I don't think they will that's okay too, because you have to. It's it's entertainment industry and you have to keep pivoting sometimes. But you know, my wish and my hope is that I work with the same agent for my whole career and I work with the same publisher or same couple publishers, and just be like an in-house author and I can be a reliable, you know, steadfast author who produces books that are for the good of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is a fantastic thing to do and I think perhaps guarantees more success because it's coming from a genuine place. I think if I think I said this before in our previous interview that if you're just seeking out the money, yeah, you might get that money, but it will dry up eventually because I think people see in in authenticity. Um, you have to be doing it for it on a deeper purpose. There has to be some deeper purpose or deeper level for what you're doing, which you definitely are.
Speaker 2:Not too long ago, on one of the harder days, I was thinking about, you know, how much money do I need to have to feel, okay, like what, what is that amount? What's that salary? And I couldn't come up with a number. I couldn't. I just kept lowering it. I was like, let's start, let's start high.
Speaker 2:If I had a million dollar salary every year, my books raked in a million dollars, Would I be happy? Yeah, I would be happy with that. And then I kept trimming it down and trimming it down and trimming it down and I just never landed on a number and that, to me, said so much and I was like, okay, well, I could, I could be happy if I'm making this amount, but I'd also be happy if I was making this amount. And so I've thought about that a lot as my books go out into the world and I look at the statistics of how much they make or how many books I've sold, it's I'm getting to do what I want to do and I'm fortunate enough to make enough money to continue doing it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:How have your family then adapted to it? Because one of the things that you were concerned about in our first interview you said, you know, we talked about your books and where they could take you and the success. And I think one of your children said, oh, does that mean you're going to make it a movie from the book? And you know, and you said, I am really concerned because I don't want my kids to suddenly see me as, oh, you know, dad's now an author and he's world famous and we're going to have, you know, all this amazing lifestyle. So how have you kind of navigated that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question. That's another big part of this past year, I would say I'm more well known locally, so in Minnesota I want them to see that what I'm doing is something they can do too right. But not too long ago my wife and I had to have a conversation because my kids had vocalized to her that they didn't like it when we were out in public at one of their events and people just wanted to talk to me about book stuff. Are out in public at one of their events and people just wanted to talk to me about book stuff, and so what happens sometimes is when I go somewhere where my kids are whether it's out to dinner or maybe to one of their sporting events is people want to hear about what's going on with the books, because there's not a lot of people who get to do what I do. Right, like being an author is not as easy to get access to and therefore there's a lot of mystery behind it and I think people like learning about it and it's friends, it's strangers and I want to give people that time. But oftentimes it starts to overshadow what my kids are doing. I've had to be very mindful about where we are and who should be the focus of the moment, and how can I take any focus that's on me and put it back to who it's supposed to be?
Speaker 2:Um, so that's been kind of my, my guiding light for a lot of what I do on social media as well. Um, I don't want my kids to be exposed to other people, so they don't. They're not on Instagram. My wife and my kids have never been on social media. Um, that's something that they have requested and that's something that I was doing beforehand either, because I know there's a lot of influencers and content creators who who use their family members and to each their own. Um, my approach is when my kids are, you know, 15 years from now, what will my kids think of the stuff that's online about them and so? So those are kind of the two things with families. I've just been very mindful of everyone's privacy and very mindful of making sure that they get recognition when they should be getting recognized.
Speaker 1:Are your children interested in a writing career? Now they're seeing what's happening. Have they shown any signs of any kind of or any kind of creative pursuit?
Speaker 2:um, they haven't verbalized anything about becoming an author and I'm glad because I want them to see what I'm doing, but I also don't want to impress it upon them. So, like I have one kid who's really into music and I have another who's really into cheer and like dance, and so I'm glad to see that they're continuing to do those things. But I do involve them in the process so they get to learn. Like they help me make the covers. Sometimes I let them doodle so they can have a little moment in the book of like oh, I made that star and so I try and and showcase it.
Speaker 2:But really what? What I want my job to be and maybe this this goes back to a comment that I I used to like and now I don't is when people come up to me and they're like oh, here comes the New York times bestseller, here comes the big famous author is like I understand that it's coming from like a comedic standpoint, right, I like it's a cute kind of funny quip. But I want my job to just be a job, like I just want to write and write books and I'm not chasing a certain amount of money. All I'm chasing is like longevity, like how long do I get to do this? And so I tell my kids often like my youngest, like you said, thought we were going to be millionaires, and I said, dad's not trying to be one, dad's just trying to do what he thinks he's meant to do. And if I make the same or less than teaching, and that supports us, great, great Cause I'm doing what I think I'm supposed to do right now.
Speaker 2:And so we have a lot of those conversations as well. As you know, dad has a desk. Now this is my office because this is my job, but that's another conversation that we've had in our family is, because I work from home, work is always here, so it's really easy for me to slip back into work and so, like, if my kids are maybe sitting down to eat lunch, usually the thing that I default to first is oh great, that's a half hour for me to do something that I couldn't do the other day, and those have been hard conversations to have. This is a I have a lot of things to do and I do them all by myself, so unless I'm doing them, they don't get done. Um, but I need to be better at at lessening the scope of my time there needs to be more when my kids are not here and less when my kids are here, and that's an ever-evolving you know chore I shouldn't say chore task.
Speaker 1:Let me just ask you a couple of questions. Actually, you know your Instagram stories that you were saying that you do there. I mean, I have noticed that I think you're not doing one every day. Now are you Kind of switching it up a little bit? Are you changing that because you're this is not negative? Are you changing that because you're this is not negative? Are you kind of running out of ideas for stories, or is it you just wanted to kind of change it up, but are you running out of those ideas now Because, I mean, the books that you kept are only you know how many stories are in there.
Speaker 2:You've been doing this a long time. I'm not running out of stories. I have thousands of stories. I'm just running out of time and so you know some of it deals with a lot of a lot of it right now just deals with the timing of the day. So, like right now, it's winter in Minnesota and I have less daylight, and so in the middle of the day, if I try and record, it's busy here and it's loud, there's trucks and there's cars coming by and.
Speaker 2:I can't. I just can't record outside, I can't record inside because I just don't like the feel of it and the lighting's weird and my eyes look like I have huge bags on and it's just like a. It's just not a great setting to record and so I usually can only record in the morning or in the evening. I try not to record in the evening anymore because my family's home Going back to what I was talking about of when I should work and when I shouldn't, but I also wanted to start to, like I said, do this how I want to do it.
Speaker 2:I wanted to start to write some poetry and post that and start to showcase some of my art a little bit. Stories will always be the foundation of my social media for as long as I have it, but posting every day is draining, and the more you are on social media, the more tempting it is to chase trends that would help you grow, and so part of it's for me is I don't want to be on Instagram every day, I just don't. I would rather be writing or doing something creative. But I still like telling stories and I still like seeing people's responses and knowing that it's helping some people. I just can't do it every day.
Speaker 1:So your inspiration for your future books and things, and where is that coming from? Because I know you've said you've got lots of stories. So is it still all of those stories? Do you still have plenty of places to go? I know you mentioned there about poetry, but are you kind of drawing anything from your new life, as it were?
Speaker 2:When I became an author and had to start writing. You know, the stories about kids was easy because I have thousands of them. The Matt Sprouts books are easy because I think of myself as a 12 year old and I just get flooded with memories from childhood and I embed them in the books. Um, I now have a three book trilogy coming out that has nothing to do with me or the stories I've kept, and that came purely out of nowhere. We were camping one day and it was pouring rain and this book idea just came to my head and I had a little pad of paper and I wrote the summary for three books. I stayed up for like three hours and just scribbled them on this tiny notebook and that's really where inspiration. And I had a little pad of paper and I wrote the summary for three books. I stayed up for like three hours and just scribbled them on this tiny notebook and that's really where inspiration comes from.
Speaker 2:It's, it's. It's seemingly coming from nowhere and I think the reason is I've been so restricted in how I use my energy that now that I have the time to let my brain relax, I do get all these ideas. Not all of them translate into work or into books, but things just flood in and I've heard that from musicians too and they're like, oh, a song just came to me and I'm like that's corny, that didn't happen. Like it really. I think it's really true. I think if you are in a space where you're relaxed, then you get these ideas and then you kind of mold them and shape them and see what they're becoming. It's almost like chiseling away at, like a woodworking piece, right, you don't really know where you're going, but all of a sudden it starts to take form. You're like, oh, I see it now. I'd say that's kind of where the inspiration is coming from, just those quiet moments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I agree. When I've been on holidays and things like that, when you're supposed to be winding now, not thinking about work, suddenly you start thinking about work because you get these ideas in your head. So, yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, so that's, you know, but that's I think that's why you're able to carry on and you're getting these ideas, because you're so grounded and you know you're you're still very much with your family and having these conversations and so, yeah, relaxing and relaxing into the process. I think so.
Speaker 1:Obviously you, you know, took you so long, took you so long to get there, which is not it's not a negative thing because you know you've learned so much along that journey and it's set you up to where you are now. But it took you a long time and there are people who you know got deals straight away, have done incredibly well, are still doing well. It took you a long time, yes, you're doing well, but do you ever then have imposter syndrome? Do you ever sit and go? Actually, was this a fluke? Is it continuing to be a fluke? Am I actually that good Because it took me so long to get here? And there are some people who do it in like a year. Does that ever come across your mind?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes I wonder if this year has just been a spike and then it's going away Right, if this year has just been a spike and then it's going away right, almost like a viral video. It'll stick around for a little while and then everyone forgets about it. I've wondered that sometimes if I, if you know, paired with my social media group or my social media growth and the way the book came out, was that just like good timing? And now this is over and I fight that some days. But it's really like the comments I get from people that are really encouraging to know that people didn't just buy a book because they like me or something. People bought a book because they enjoy reading and it doesn't have to be my book, and so I don't fight imposter syndrome much.
Speaker 2:I feel like I've. I feel like I've done my time, that 15-year journey, like I put in the work already, so I feel like I was ready for this moment. It's more so about the fear of this being over before I'm ready for it to be over, like I've said a couple of times, like you know, two or three years from now. But if, like a week from now, I learned, oh, we're not doing any more book deals, we're done that, it would be shock, right, and so that that lives in my head, a little bit of of it ending before I'm ready for it to be over, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I know something that would happen if you got that call you wouldn't give in and you wouldn't say maybe, maybe it would have to be a, it would have to be a conversation with more than just myself, because this is hard work too. You know, every job is hard, um, and in different ways. But um, yeah, it would have to be a conversation.
Speaker 1:I would.
Speaker 2:I would definitely not give up for a little bit, but I don't know if I'd push for another 15 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what is the growth that you feel as a human being that has happened to you in the last year? Because obviously, the 15 years were so many lessons, so many lessons keeping going and keeping the faith and keeping inspiration flowing and believing in yourself and and learning how other people have supported you many different lessons, which we talked about in the first podcast. So what has the last year taught you? Not in terms of like writing and learning how to find out about conferences, but about you as a human being. How has matt changed in this last year?
Speaker 2:if you have changed uh, that's a good question. I think my answer is um, I don't think I've changed that much, but I kind of rediscovered who I am. Does that make sense? Yes, I remember that guy. That's the guy who used to be silly and you know, my wife and I've actually joked about that a few times maybe not always joked, but there's been some walks where she's like this is, I missed this, I missed this version of you, you know, and that's those are hard moments to swallow too, cause you're so thankful, you're like, oh good, but at the same time you're like how long was I gone? You know, because it doesn't. It's not just like a switch, it's like a little bit each day, a little bit each day, and I don't think I, you know, and my wife would attest I'm not like dramatically different than I was five years ago, but there's elements to me that I remember missing, and so that's been cool to just be me and have less stressors than I had before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so those elements that we're missing is just the silliness, is it just?
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, there's a couple things. So I think one of the bigger ones is I was elevated often. I was, I was elevated often and so, like I give all of my patients and I would give all of my understanding and all of that to my students and parents at school, and then I'd come home and my threshold was so low for anything. So if a kid was upset or if a kid had a problem, or even if my wife wanted to talk through something, it's like I couldn't match it. I just couldn't get there, and so I was easily irritated. I would get easily distracted, because I was always thinking about what I needed to do the next day, because in teaching, if I don't plan what happens tomorrow, my day is going to be absolutely miserable. It's going to be miserable and the kids aren't going to learn but selfishly, I'm going to be miserable. And so I was constantly thinking about what I had to do the next day so that my day and the day for the students would be okay.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, silliness comes back to. When you have less to think about is I'm lighter. I think about my family, not as a whole as much, but individual needs. So what do each of my family members need as opposed to okay, we all need to eat dinner at six. There's like well, what else needs to happen with each family member who might need a snuggle? Things that I couldn't recognize before because I was too worried about me and I don't want to paint a picture of like I was this stressed out version of Matt that couldn't function, like I was okay, um, but it's noticeably different.
Speaker 1:It's interesting you say that about finding yourself, cause I read this about um. You know, when people go on spiritual journeys and enlightenment and somebody said exactly that it's not that you grow into someone else is that you discover who you always were before life got in the way. So you rediscover who you were at your sole core level before everything started to change you and your behavioral issues change you. So that's really interesting that you say that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that can be scary too, though, when you're trying to let that happen. And oftentimes I think I already talked about this I like when it's silent, because then I can start to hear me. But when you can hear yourself, that's when you can hear everything else, all the imposter syndrome, thoughts, everything else. But if you can fight through that for a little bit, then there's like this dissonance that happens, where all those thoughts just kind of fade away and you're left with the hum in your own ears and it's just you and there's clarity and there's a path forward. Um, but getting to that point can feel worthless sometimes, cause you're like see, I'm not, nothing's happening, all I'm thinking about is the same stuff I thought about. It's like no, you just need longer and repetition, like you talked about, and, like I said, I'm lucky to have had the chance to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and getting rid of those distractions. You sit and think, right, I need to now center myself and I need to. And then you just something inside of you goes have you checked the instagram thing? Have you checked? And then it's, but that's a distraction because you're, I think, because your, your higher self is kind of going oh, you're listening now, are you? Should we talk some serious stuff? And you're not so sure I want to listen to that Because, as you say, you know that can be, that can be quite frightening, kind of finding yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from a creative standpoint too. I had an author tell me once he goes. You know, if you are stuck in a cycle of questioning what you're doing and whether it's worth something or not, he goes, spend a day creating things that you will then throw out and there's no way you can get them back. You need to create without the purpose of creating for someone else. So go draw, he goes, but don't draw where it can be saved, draw on paper pencil and then, when you're done, burn it. Don't take a picture. There's no way you can get it back, he goes. If it's a good enough idea, it'll come back on it in its own way, but you need to be okay with creating things that are just for you and it just being part of the process and not constantly thinking about who's going to see it, how can I leverage it? Just go create and destroy, which is hard, I think, for a lot of creative people, and I've done that a couple times. Not the burning part, but delete. Um, but that's, although maybe burning would be more satisfactory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on some days, uh, but yeah, that's, uh, that's, although maybe burning would be more satisfactory on some days, uh, but yeah, that's uh, that's an interesting uh task to try and do is create without the purpose of creating for others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is interesting actually, but I wonder if that would help to get you, as you say, into that relaxed state, that relaxed flow, when the real idea would then pop in, the big idea would pop in.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yep, yeah, that's state that relaxed flow, when the real idea would then pop in. The big idea would pop in. Yes, yes, yep yeah, that's, that's really good yeah, that's a good point too creating for the purpose of knowing.
Speaker 1:Something bigger is coming, and I'm just kind of waiting for it yeah yeah so what bigger thing would you like to know is coming, matt, what's, what's the next thing for you to be striving for, if there is anything?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, well, like logistically, there's a book coming out this summer, there's one in september and then I this three book trilogy that's coming out is 2026 through 2027. But something that I'm working towards now is, like you know, there's Matt, the middle grade author. Is Matt allowed to go outside middle grade? Do I have a voice somewhere else? And so what I'm experimenting with is like early reader books, so books for kids who are just learning to read. You know big pictures, you know not as much uh, word count, and that's been fun too, mostly because I can finish them in like a day or two, so I can create a whole book in a day, and that feels very good as a creator to like push something out. Um, so that's kind of what I'm working on now is is what other avenues can this author do?
Speaker 2:The other thing that I'm like wondering about too, is how much more public speaking I can do. Um, I've done quite a bit of it. Um, already this year I've booked a lot of keynotes and I'm getting better at it. So I have like a standard keynote that I give. That's kind of based on sticky notes. I'd say the core of it is small moments matter, and then I use my stories to prove it.
Speaker 2:Basically, and I would like to do that more, but I'd like to do it more with kids who are learning to become teachers. I think they really need to be presented with situations that they are not ready for, because they won't be ready when they step in the classroom, cause there's a lot of things that happen that no class could teach you. But it would be good to talk through in a setting with your peers before you're thrust into that moment. For example, if you're sitting in a school setting and you're with a kid and that kid tells you a secret and it's a secret that their parents don't know, and it doesn't necessarily deal with anyone being in harm's way or anything like that, but it's a secret Nonetheless. What's your role as a teacher in that moment? Does it depend on the secret? Does it depend on when they told you? So those are good things to talk through, because it's going to happen, and I think I could see myself working a little bit with college aid students at some point.
Speaker 1:I think that's a fantastic idea. I really do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's terrific, and I could see you doing that and that, once again, it's a lot of putting a lot of good out into the world. Yeah, that's a really, really good idea. Yeah, just as you say there with that secret, because it will happen You're dealing with human beings, so you're going to be put into situations that you're not trained for. In a way, it's like anyway, it's like doctors, isn't it? You know they give them all, they learn all the books and then they go there. You are there's an er, have fun in there real patient.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I may have asked you this in the first podcast, but it's interesting that you're kind of circling back around, because what I was going to say was from you being in a teacher and being constantly around uh, parents and children and other teachers to then being thrust into isolation, where I know you have your family, they come back from school, but you're now suddenly on your own with a computer in front of you. Now, this is something that I found incredibly hard to adjust to from going from a TV studio to then being on my own in this house with a computer. How have you found that? Because you're kind of now stepping back out of it again and doing your keynote speeches, et cetera. But how did you deal with that transition? Because I find it so hard to get motivated. Sometimes I sit here and I go ooh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So I'd say my first year when I was doing this, when we first met, I was too busy to be lonely, like truly. It felt like every day just like never ended, you know, and I was happy to be doing it. This is the first year where I have felt isolation and loneliness because I'm alone. So like when my agent wants to schedule a call, I'm like, yeah, I get to talk to a human today. Or when we get to do a podcast like this, it's so enjoyable to me to meet with people, because it took me a full year to understand, being away from kids, what that would do for me.
Speaker 2:And for a while I noticed, just like this absence and I couldn't really peg what it was, and then I finally identified it as oh, I miss the energy that I got from kids, like I miss them, but I also just miss their energy, and anyone who's worked with kids in any capacity knows what that means. I miss their humor, I miss their laughs, I miss their smiles. I even miss the days that were hard for them, because all of that is just human emotion and you feed off of that as a, as an educator. Is that that's what you're there to do. So for a while this year I actually thought I had ADHD because I wasn't making all these decisions and it was less busy, so I was very easily distracted. I had a hard time maintaining a task for very long, but then I learned that part of that was just me learning my process for writing. It wasn't that I was easily distracted, it was I just didn't have a formula yet to work with.
Speaker 2:But that isolation piece is strange. When I originally thought 15 years ago of being an author and what that would mean, no part of me thought about being by myself. No part of me understood that piece. Being by myself, no part of me understood that piece. So that's why I've made an effort to reach out to other authors that live in my area and say let's go to lunch or let's, can I buy you coffee and hear your journey. And that's good too, because it gets me out of the house. But it gets me learning about other people's stories and that's what I enjoy the most. But yeah, that isolation piece is tough some days, especially during the cold months of minnesota.
Speaker 1:yeah, this is really good to hear this kind of stuff, though, because I think people just think then you've got it made, you're having a wonderful, glorious life and everything is fine. But these are all things are really important to hear that actually, you struggle with isolation, you struggle with loneliness, you struggle with, you know, having to to do the job. Sometimes you have to go out and ground yourself because you start spiraling. You start spiraling. Where are you going? Imposter syndrome. These are really important things and conversations.
Speaker 2:This is why I like doing this podcast yes, and you're, you can allow yourself to have that bad day. You don't need to fight it either. You don't need to to like course correct and it all of a sudden be a chipper day Like you're allowed to have a bad day, and I do think bad days help reset you in the longterm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:Grab a weighted blanket binge some shows. If you need to. I would suggest going for a walk like you did. That's what I do, but you know, take care of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, take care of you. Yeah, I think also as well. I will say not that we're going to get into politics or anything, but I do think there is a collective, a very collective low energy at the moment, because I think of you, kind of look around the world and go where's empathy, where's compassion, where's understanding, when is this, where are we going in this world at the moment, right now? Because you know, and if you are an empath or if you do have any of those traits, I think you've been quite difficult at the moment in a place to be in this world. So I think, particularly if anybody's listening at this moment and feeling particularly down, really don't beat yourself up, because I think there's a collective energy in the world of a lot of people who are quite depressed.
Speaker 2:I would agree with you, yeah.
Speaker 1:I want to ask you what you would and this usually comes at the end of interview, but I think it's slightly different for you in that I would ask you what you would tell the Matt who was struggling for all those years. Now, in the first podcast I asked you this question, but now you've had an extra year on the journey and you've got the success and everything has gone well. Can you think of anything else you would tell that Matt on that big 15 year journey?
Speaker 2:Oh, there's a couple of things you know I've said before. Like your audience is out there, you just need to wait. But that's really hard to listen to. When you're in the middle of trying to chase a dream. It's really hard to know that you just have to wait. It's a really. It's almost like a slap in the face when you're grinding and you're working away and someone goes it'll come, You're like, but it's not.
Speaker 2:Like I've been trying for a while, I think because of the stage I'm in now. I would tell Matt family first, Family first. And when your family is taken care of and you get to relax and be who you are, then the best work that you can create will be put forward. And when you put your best work forward, that's literally all you can do. Is that? And I think part of that 15-year journey was me? There were moments where I was frantic about it, right, Like just blinders on and only looking one way. And I do think that is needed at points of a journey where you do have to just ignore stuff and really push, have to just ignore stuff and really push. But I think there are more moments when you need to look at everything else, everything else that's happening around you, be thankful for it and kind of reset, Because, like I said, I think when you can be a little bit more relaxed and be who you are, then your best work is put forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and isn't it ironic that when you are, as you say, frantically trying to get this dream, in a way, you're walking further away from it, because you're yeah, you're so frantic, that you're not then finding that true creative thing. So there's a big lesson there. Isn't there that in life I think you have to accept everything is happening for a reason and you're actually where you need to be right now, because if you imagine where you want to be, you're probably not ready for it yeah, absolutely, I've thought about that with my journey too.
Speaker 2:Like had matt's book, I just used third person to myself. Good grief.
Speaker 1:You really are a New York.
Speaker 2:Times bestseller. Oh boy, oh boy, what's happening to me? No, I often wonder if I would have been 22. I wrote the book when I was 21. If I would have been 22 or 23 and my book got picked up and it became an instant New York Times bestseller, could I have handled that at that moment? And my answer is definitely not, definitely not. I would have not been ready mentally. I would have not been ready to make decisions of different job opportunities. I would have not been ready. And so that's the other thing to think about is maybe it's okay to wait a little bit longer. Maybe it'll be better for you later. I know that's easy to say being in the space I'm in now, but complete transparency. There's no way I would have handled it well. I would have probably dropped the ball in many places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I feel the same that if I'd come out of drama school and got a big movie and gone into that world, I would have been a mess by now. I would have certainly been divorced. I would have been a car crash. I just know it. I wouldn't have coped and I don't think I and I know I know now I would not want fame. I, I could not cope with the, the stuff that gets thrown at you by the press and the social media and everything. I couldn't cope with it. No, thank you. So do you have? You may have given me a motto in your previous interview, matt, I can't remember, but do you have a new motto? Is there anything that's come to mind or any little mantra that you give to yourself?
Speaker 2:I'll give you the one that I give to my students.
Speaker 2:I shouldn't say they're my students, but when I do school visits, the message that I leave them with is you're going to get a lot of feedback in your life when you're chasing a goal, and feedback can be helpful because it can help refine the way in which you approach your goal or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Oftentimes you'll be told no, and the thing about the word no is no can be feedback, but is also an opinion, and so one of the hardest jobs is to navigate what is feedback and what are things that you don't need to listen to, and so what I tell kids is if you have a goal or you have a dream and you have it all planned out, you know what you need to do, but you more so importantly feel it in your heart and your soul. If you can truly feel like that's what you're supposed to do, then it's okay to ignore the nose and ignore some of the feedback, because you have to chase what you think is right. So that would be my new. My new motto for listeners today is no is an opinion. It's an opinion.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and also you can add on no, not yet.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, growth mindset, not yet, not yet.
Speaker 1:Not yet. It's not no, forever. It's no, not yet. Yeah, is there anything you would like to say right now from your book as a further bit of advice or something that you've written? Then you go. Yeah, let me say that.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So in this scene, matt Sprouts has been chasing this goal for a long time, and he's in the moment where he could achieve the goal or he could do the right thing, okay, so it's a breaking point for the character, yeah, and he's on a stage, just to give you some context. And so here's the quote Um, I once read that all the world's a stage, probably bigger than the one I was left sitting on, though, but I guess, at the end of the day, whatever stage I'm on, I want people to know I made the right choice. It's just too bad. The right choice hurts my heart so much. No one warned me about that.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, and that's yeah. That's so true. No one does warn you about it, but these are the things that you have to go through.
Speaker 2:Yeah it, but these are the things that you have to go through. Yeah, yeah, they're the growing moments that are hardest, when the right choice hurts you so much, but you know it's the right thing to do exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:Your soul tells you yeah yeah and and I think as well that when you've gone through your life and you've learned these lessons, sometimes you want to stay somewhere or you want to go back, but you absolutely know that you can't. It's very much like in wicked, when the green witch says, when she says, I always forget her name is elfabub, isn't it elfabub? Yes, and she says in in that song, um, defying gravity, and she says, um, I I've something inside has changed. I I can't go back to what I want now. I I've changed. And that's very difficult sometimes.
Speaker 1:Well, matt, I'm pleased to say you haven't changed in terms of you haven't uh, become, you know, less humble and uh, full of yourself, even though you did talk in third person for a moment. You caught yourself. You caught yourself but you haven't. Seriously, you're still the same lovely, wonderful, knowledgeable, just giving person that you were when I first met you. But I do think there is a more confident, relaxed air about you. I mean you were kind of confident and relaxed, but there's something more knowing about you now, I think in this interview, which is great. But I think one thing you need to work on is a book tour in England with me on it.
Speaker 2:I would, man. I just need to be invited as soon as I'm invited, and then we could go not do an interview and just have coffee along the sand would be amazing this sounds good to me.
Speaker 1:We need to get this, we need to get this out there. No, it's been an absolute joy. So, you know, thank you so much and and, of course, I wish you, you know continued success. But you don't need my wishes, um, you've done it, you know, you have done it and, as you say, even if this is a little ride that goes somewhere else that you weren't expecting, you will be fine on that journey. You will be fine, you will find new places to go and you'll just keep shining your light in the world, and that's a wonderful thing to behold oh, thank you, I appreciate it and thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2:The best part about being in the space I'm in is I get to have conversations with some amazing people, so thank you, you are welcome and let's do it again in another year. Or less than I like coming on. So yeah, let's do it again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's do it again. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Just before you go, lovely listener, can I ask you a favour If you have a friend who you think would enjoy listening to this podcast, would you mind please telling them about it?
Speaker 1:It helps me to spread the word and, you never know, they might get a life lesson out of it or, at the very least, just have a lovely 40 minutes of relaxing time for themselves. The second thing to say is that if you have enjoyed this, it would really help me if you would give me a little quick like or a comment, especially if you're listening on one of the podcast platforms. It just means that when anybody lands on the page, they can see that people have reviewed it, they've liked it, enjoyed it and got something out of it. So if you wouldn't mind leaving me a review, that would be amazing. And the final thing to say is that if you are a business and you're thinking how do I get my message out there? Well, you could do it on this podcast. All you have to do is reach out to me, rachel, at breakingtheblockscom. The details are below in the box. Thank you so much to everybody for listening and enjoying and saying the lovely things that you're saying.
