Breaking the Blocks
Hi!
Thanks for stopping by! Life is tough, and I think this podcast might offer you some relief. My aim? To inspire you to overcome some of your own blocks through the inspirational, honest, and at times, downright raw conversations with some wonderful guests, not huge celebrities, regular people like you and I. Let’s see how they have overcome the difficulties in their lives and offer you some advice and more importantly hope.
www.breakingtheblocks.com
Instagram @breakingtheblocks
Facebook @breakingtheblocks
YouTube @BreakingTheBlockspodcast
www.craftymonkies.com
www.rachelpierman.com
Breaking the Blocks
The Art of Healing: David's Journey Through Adversity
David Owen Hastings' inspiring journey reveals how he transformed past trauma into a meaningful, creative life. He stresses the importance of embracing our experiences, seeking community support, and using creativity as a healing tool.
• Discussion on David's challenging childhood and family dynamics
• The significance of crafting as a coping mechanism
• Insights into navigating life as a gay man during the AIDS epidemic
• The power of creativity to foster joy and resilience
• The role of community in personal healing and growth
• Reflection on future aspirations and leaving a legacy
Follow David on Instagram @davidowenhastings
www.davidowenhastings.com
Well, hello and welcome back to another episode of Breaking the Blocks. My name is Rachel Pearman. It is lovely to have your company, as always, as we delve into the life of another interesting guest. So a lot of my guests talk about their traumatic childhoods. We all have had many stories that have followed us through life.
Speaker 1:David Owen Hastings, my guest today, had a very difficult start because his mother was bipolar, his father was a psychiatrist but unable to help his mother, and sadly his father died when he was quite young. David also came out as gay during the time of the AIDS epidemic, so you can imagine how difficult that start was, and so perhaps it would explain things if David's life had not turned out as he had wanted, and he had gone down many dark roads, but David didn't. So how did he overcome these blocks and these challenges? How did David's life end up being so positive? How did David choose the lighter side of life rather than heading down those dark pathways?
Speaker 1:This interview is an inspiration, so I hope that you'll watch, I hope you'll listen and I hope that maybe you will find those light pathways for yourself. Let's see how David did it. Ok, so lovely, david. I'm saying lovely. Do you know, david, I say this about all of my guests and actually I've been lucky so far that everybody is lovely, because I always start with my lovely guest today well, what if I turn out to be a bear?
Speaker 1:I'll just edit it. I'll just edit it, cut the lovely out. So I'm sure you will be lovely for my dealing so far. Mr david owen hastings, it is lovely to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining me today here to break some blocks. And, david, you just say to me and and how much do I share on this show? Well, lovely listener, you all know that quite often my guests cry, so let's see if we can make david cry, shall we? No, that's never my aim, it's just a nice little chat, david.
Speaker 2:I'll probably get choked up, guaranteed.
Speaker 1:Bless you Well, you know, but this is a good thing to do in life, I think.
Speaker 1:In fact, I was just talking to a friend of mine about sharing feelings, because I do think that as a collective we are getting better at sharing our feelings. And it is so important because there are people I know who have repressed their feelings. And I've just actually a couple of weeks ago lost my stepfather, who was a man who repressed his feelings all of his life, and that's because of his very, very difficult childhood. He was 92. I think things were very different in the kind of 40s, 50s, growing up, but it is sad to see, and I think our generation, we're really beginning to understand how important it is to share, to talk, to listen and to empathize. Do you agree with that, David?
Speaker 2:listen and to empathize. Do you agree with that, david?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so much so I think that's part of my job is to be an empathetic listener to the people I come across really Well, I mean as a creative as well, which is, of course, what you are. It is really important to be able to connect to people, and I think, in order to work with people, to reach people, you have to understand them, don't you? As a creative person, I don't think that you can kind of sit in your own bubble. I think that you, you have to be empathetic, don't you?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. And you know, letting people talk and listening you, you know, with your heart, so important, I mean we, we have to support each other. That's the. It gets more and more important every day as we go along this path.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. I wanted to get you on the show today because I want to know a little bit more about you, and that's the lovely thing about this show is getting behind the Instagram face. So, david, I know very little about you other than we've just discussed, pre the recording of this, that you live in Washington, and I said which one? Is that the one with the White House? You said no, it's the other one on the West Coast.
Speaker 2:I grew up in the American Midwest and where it's quite, you know, conservative and agricultural. I'm from the state of Iowa and our main products they're soybeans, cows and corn, so you can imagine. But at the same time, you know, my parents were relatively, you know, upper middle class, so we had opportunities upper middle class. So we had opportunities and me and my four siblings all got opportunities to express ourselves and that was really great. I'm the youngest of five. My sister is the oldest and she was a professional artist from the time she went to college. She was really one of my main models. But I also got a chance to learn things like knitting and sewing in grade school. We had a program at our elementary school which was like right across the street from our house.
Speaker 2:Growing up I could walk across the street to school and had this program where elderly people came in to teach us crafts and one of the things besides knot tying and wood burning and things like that was knitting. And so I took a knitting lesson and I just immediately was enthralled with knitting and just hooked and then, kind of almost simultaneously, one of my grandmas was visiting us and taught me how to use our family's singer rocketeer sewing machine. She helped me learn how to make pajamas for my GI Joe dolls. I know, I think for a lot of people mostly girls of course making doll clothes are some of the first things they sell. So I was no different. Yeah, I haven't really stopped putting needle and thread together since those very early days.
Speaker 1:Now, you just used the word different there and I was going to ask you as you were saying that. So you're a boy, obviously. Yes, yes you know, starting to be involved in crafts and thankfully, now it's great that more and more men are, you know, becoming part of the quilting, the sewing world, because that's what it should be. We should all just follow our creativity, no matter who we are yeah, regardless of gender.
Speaker 1:Regardless of gender. But for you as a little boy growing up, how accepted was that by your classmates and by people around you?
Speaker 2:that by your classmates and by people around you. Yeah, I, as a method of self-preservation, I had to be very secretive about it and that really sucked. You know it was the you know 60s and 70s in the American Midwest, you know, not the most liberal place, very liberal in terms of helping others and education and things like that, but the social aspects of liberalness were yet to come, of course. So I had to be pretty secretive and I would spirit myself away to the third floor of our house to go sew and never share anything with others. I think I didn't even share sewn things with friends until maybe high school, but my parents were always very supportive. They always encouraged it and that was really lucky. Home was good in many ways and bad in a couple of important ways too.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, I was just about to say you're very lucky that you had that supportive family. But I have to ask you now immediately.
Speaker 2:I know I dropped that bomb, didn't I?
Speaker 1:You did drop that bomb. So what were the bad ways? Because I was about to say wow, you've had such a blessed childhood. This is very unusual for my guest to come on this show, so go on.
Speaker 2:This is kind of the big irony of my family that my mother very much suffered from mental illness her whole life and she had severe depression and anxiety. She had probably borderline bipolar disorder. And the irony is that my dad was a psychiatrist and so I grew up in this two-parent household with one person who was barely functional a lot of the time and the other person who was in this role of automatic caretaker as a profession. But maybe that didn't translate so well to the home life in different ways. So it was challenging, you know, to have a parent whose main job is to care for the kids in the family and have them maybe lying on a couch for a month at a time and barely getting up off that couch. And you know we had a lot of sympathy for her.
Speaker 2:But also it was frustrating as a young person to have this heavy weight, you know, and not be able to have friends come over because your mom was not receiving people at that time, not receiving people at that time, and then my dad sort of slowly distanced himself from that home life in ways, because it was hard for him, because he did that as a job. You know that was his job to help people and that was a lot to ask of one person when I think back on it. So that was tough. You know I had these challenges. Being gay in the Midwest growing up, you know very different. No, I honestly I thought I was the only gay person in my whole state. That's how ignorant I was and isolated. And until I went to college and then having, you know, very dysfunctional home life and um, and having older siblings who were quite older, who had gone on to live their lives, and then, you know, I was here with one other sibling at home and a mother who couldn't function very well. So it was it was tough.
Speaker 1:I think that's very difficult when you've got a father who's a psychiatrist and your mother has mental illness and yet your father is distancing himself. So in a way, I feel like and I don't know if you've ever thought about this- yeah your emotional needs weren't being met because of your mother's own pain.
Speaker 1:So your emotional needs weren't met by your mother. But then your father was also not helping in those emotional needs because he was distancing himself from the situation and not helping. And yet, as you say, that was his profession. So there must have been quite a lot of frustration as well on that it was like can someone please help us? I mean, you've got someone who could help, and they decided not to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so true. And you know I remember. You know thinking why is this happening to us? And it was too. You know there's a lot of shame involved with mental illness, especially then. You know we're talking 50 years ago. Okay, now, so much better, thank goodness. But you know it just wasn't talked about. It was swept under the rug and hushed up and you know very similar to my journey as a gay person and trying to come out to. You know similar things happening too. You know similar things happening. So you know it's amazing that I turned out so healthy.
Speaker 2:I think when we come from a tragic or challenging background, you know how does that form us. And you know some people really blossom, actually because they've been at the bottom, they've seen the hard stuff and lived it, and it's what you do with it. I read a lot of romance novels as a escape. I really love them. There's a whole genre of romance novels with gay protagonists in them and I was just reading this one yesterday and do you mind if I share this little quote out of this romance novel.
Speaker 2:Maybe this will resonate with some of your listeners. This is the author, annabeth Albert, and she writes a lot of male romance novels. She says one of her characters says in this book everyone has a tragic backstory in some way. What sets people apart is what they do with the tragedies that define them. Some stuff them down, some try to make amends or find other personal motivations, and a few will try to use the bad stuff as inspiration to advocate for changes that might prevent future tragedies. That resonated with me because I feel like I've done something similar, not really planned, but as an adult I evolved my graphic design business I was a graphic designer for 40 years into working with nonprofits, and a lot of those nonprofits were mental health providers or you know, supporting people with chronic illness or, you know, people who are survivors of abuse, things like that. So it's kind of interesting how my life has sort of followed this path of long-term healing, maybe by serving other people, and, yeah, I feel pretty lucky that I've been able to do that.
Speaker 1:But when you were younger, David, how did you cope with what was going on around you? Because obviously now I think a lot of us have been on kind of spiritual awakenings and we're understanding about trauma now and we're understanding how it affects us and we're learning so much and, as you say, I think we meet people who are mirrors so that we can see what's happening and we get put in this situation so we can learn and grow.
Speaker 1:But at the time when you were that little boy, how did you cope with what was going on around you? Did you just lose yourself in your crafts? Do you think that's where the passion for that came from? How did you manage?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. You know the crafts were a haven. You know, to be able to escape, we had this. I mentioned the third floor. We had this fairly large house because at one time we did have five children in one home, and so I'd escape to that third floor and make things and just be in my happy place.
Speaker 2:And my dad, besides being a psychiatrist, he was a creative person too. He took photos of railroads and trains, in particular steam trains, as they were disappearing. So from the time he was a teenager until he passed away, he died quite young. He was avidly taking photos and he was quite widely published with his photography.
Speaker 2:Most of our family vacations, when it was just my next older brother and I left at home, were car trips where we would travel around Canada and the US tracking down these trains that my dad wanted to photograph that were going out of service, and so lots of road trips, of lots of driving over big expanses of the Midwest. So a coping mechanism for me was knitting, to escape into this meditative knitting and also a little bit of a self-preservation, because if my dad was following a timetable and knew that there was a train that was going to cross this very picturesque bridge or some such, where he wanted to get a shot. He would drive quite fast and it would freak me out a bit because I'm not so comfortable being a passenger, so I would knit faster and faster to calm me down. Knitting has always been a sort of a escape place for me, or a calming, calming place it sounded like you.
Speaker 1:It sounds definitely like you needed something to to help you be calm. Did your mother eventually get some medication and help and did that situation change? Or I mean, is your mom still alive?
Speaker 2:No she, she passed about five years ago now. Okay, um, she lived a really good long life, 95 years. And um, and no she, you know her. Her treatments were, um, I would say, moderately helpful and you know, no, no one treatment is perfect. And she went through a lot of hospitalization, a lot of medication, a lot of talk, therapy and, you know, she was just never super happy. I took from that her unhappiness, you know, and the fact that my dad passed fairly young in life to really appreciate every single day, you know, find something good. In challenging situations, you know, I tend to be that person who is really trying to see. You know, how, what is this? What is the brighter side of this thing that's happening right now? Um, how can we get through this? And maybe that's a gift, you know, maybe they gave me a gift by being who they are yeah, yeah, oh, I believe that.
Speaker 1:I believe that people's treatment of us and behaviors, particularly if they're hurtful, they are gifts. That's how you I was talking to emily watts about that, actually, and she was saying the buddhist quote is that something about? I'm paraphrasing, but you know that the people who treat us the worst, they are the jewel in the crown. You know they are the jewels in our lives because they help us to see what we need to see and change about ourselves, and you can only, when you go through pain and suffering, learn and grow. We don't learn anything when everything is going great. We only learn when things are going wrong for us. Are you always able to find the good in situations, though, david, or do you have dark days?
Speaker 2:I definitely have dark days too and I tend to spiral on things I can't change. It really affects me strongly when somebody finds fault with me and I've let them down in some way or what have you, and I do go to extraordinary lengths to try to repair that. Yeah, that's the wanting to please people is. It's a blessing and a curse, really. So your brain can, you can spiral on things that you know, interactions that happened when somebody was upset or what have you. It's in the past and I know that intellectually.
Speaker 2:But letting it go is hard. So one of my coping mechanisms for that is a gratitude list and it seems a very simple thing to do. Maybe some other guests have talked about this, but just before you go to sleep, jot down a few things that were good, you know, and it's really healing to then be able to kind of scan back through and say, oh, yeah, I think there were some good things recently. Yeah, and I did it for like half a year and you know you can't worry about being repetitive and saying that you're grateful for your dog every time, because why not?
Speaker 1:when you say that you, if you worry about letting people down or you know, that kind of gets to you and you're not worth, you're not worthy of having you know, friendships and and love. And it's that because that's usually where people pleasing comes from. It's coming from being a child and not receiving the love that we deserved and the love that we needed. So is that where it's coming from within you, that anxiety, the love that we needed? So is that where it's coming from within you, that anxiety?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that, and my sexuality too, because you know I as growing up non, you know, non straight. And then, you know, coming to the quilting community, it was a little bit daunting too in a way, because it's predominantly women. Some people are totally welcoming, some people don't like that, you know they're. I've I've heard some things said that are awfully hurtful and, um, you know, things like always it's only getting attention because of his gender. Basically is what they're saying, and I'd rather have people notice the thing that I've made that perhaps they liked, and then they learn more about me, the quilting community in particular.
Speaker 2:I just want to say this is such a loving, welcoming, supportive thing and crafting in general, right, and I was in the professional art world for 25 years showing work in galleries and stuff. It's quite competitive and has lovely people too, but it's nothing to compare with people who are crafting for the love of making, without profit, and yeah, and so I'm very, very, very thankful to be a part of this wonderful group of people who are so welcoming and mutually supportive. People are so happy to be together, just in general, and make things and they're finding joy and even if they're learning something new and challenging, they're finding a joyful moment doing that, and we're so lucky to be in this group of people who do that together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I do agree. I read something actually on your. You did a lovely piece where you said here are the thoughts going through your mind, but you said somewhere about that you really believe that crafting and uh had a huge effect on the soul and it was for the soul which is kind of what you were just saying there yeah yeah, so what? What is, what is it for you? How does it kind of tap into your soul?
Speaker 1:gosh big question that is a big question. I don't even know where that came from. The words just came out. That's my higher self speaking to your higher self.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm tap dancing over here, take your time. Thinking. How do I answer that?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, so here's where my life's at right now with my creative being. I find so much joy in encouraging others. That's definitely building my soul, you know, encouraging others on their journey. But then I also get time to do things that are just for me and just because I want to make them. And when I'm in that zone of making something and it's just for pleasure and maybe it has some kind of a prompt, a word or something that I'm working towards, that is just really soul building. We are all artists and being able to finally say that I am an artist is such an empowering thing.
Speaker 2:And I can look back to a specific point in my adult life when I finally was able to say this and it's about 26 years ago now and I was feeling very kind of strung out and aimless at the end of that last job where I was an employee and so I worked with.
Speaker 2:At the time, working with a life coach was very popular. You'd work with this person who was kind of like a counselor, who encouraged your journey and helped you find your way. And I found this great person, this wonderful woman, who I very much clicked with, and she helped me see that I had some blocks, about being able to say I was an artist because I wasn't at that time yet showing professionally in galleries. I didn't have a degree. She helped me get the confidence to pursue graphic design to support myself and that was feeding my soul and to focus on nonprofits, which was where my heart was leading me to do and then at the same time, concurrently, to make my own art and make enough to show and sell and proclaim I'm an artist. It was extremely empowering to me and ever since then and as I started to teach other people and teach crafts and the things that I do, I try to keep in mind that not everybody had that kind of supportive you know, cheerleader basically. So I try to be that person for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I think we're all artists in our own lives, aren't we? We're all creating our own lives every single day. Everything we do, we're creating something we're painting, our own pictures.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's. I think it's fantastic that we're able to say that now, whereas, like you say, 20 years ago you probably would have thought you had to be Andy Warhol or something to be an artist. You know, you had to be up there with the echelons, and now it's like, no, we're all creatives, we're all artists. I look at you, david, from what I'm seeing in front of me. First of all, a while ago you said you'd been doing?
Speaker 2:did you say you'd been? What did you? You've been doing this for 40 years. Something for you said 40. Yeah, I was. I was a practicing graphic designer for 40 years until last spring, right?
Speaker 1:well, that freaks me out, because may I ask how old you are, david?
Speaker 2:I'm 61 now.
Speaker 1:This is not possible yeah, someone has got your birth certificate wrong, because it's's not Now you know. So I'm going to talk to you about this because, well, there's lots of things I want to say, but first of all, I think you have the most amazing young soul about you, this young spirit. Do you think, David, there is anything in you that is still trying to reclaim a lost childhood?
Speaker 2:Maybe so, Maybe so, Rachel. You know I frequently say when people compliment my appearance I'll say you know, I feel 27 inside still and that's sort of where I felt like I was at my peak of everything coming together, the physical and the mental and everything, the possibilities of the world and such. So I just embrace that and if that helps me appear younger, that's great, that's icing on the cake, I guess. I mean I see a lot of people, you know, I go to a, I'm a Christian, I go to a church locally here. Everyone is a good, you know, 10 plus years older than I for the most part. So they always call me that young man and such. And it's just kind of, maybe that's life-giving too, to be around people who are quite, quite a bit older than me and it's a reminder that you know you're only as old as maybe your body feels old, of course, but, um, maybe you're only as old as what you're telling yourself up here yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I put a post out recently that said act your energy, not your age.
Speaker 2:You know it's your, your energy.
Speaker 1:That's what you're giving out. I'm astounded that you're 61. I would have put you in your early 40s, seriously.
Speaker 2:Likewise, I would say 42. I would say 42 for you. Oh, maybe I should downgrade that 38.
Speaker 1:22. No, that is amazing. But I do wonder if, because I feel, when I'm talking to you, that this is like a little boy, I feel like this giddy little, lovely boy, and I do wonder if, like you say, there is part of you that is kind of going backwards now and reclaiming your childhood. Well, let's talk about your love of romance novels. So, because I find that interesting as well, do you have a longtime partner?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I'm married, and my husband and I've been together 18 plus years now.
Speaker 1:Oh, fantastic, okay yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we met later in life. I had a previous spouse and that did not work so well as many people have.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing I introduced my daughter the other day to Tootsie. You remember Tootsie?
Speaker 2:with Justin.
Speaker 1:Hoffman and I said to her it's one of my favorite films, madhu, you have to watch it. And the first five minutes she was like what is this? Because of course it's quite dated. And then she loved it. She loved it. We both sat there laughing and she said oh, it's a great film.
Speaker 1:And at the end I said you know something, hollywood and america ruined my love life. And she said what do you mean? And I said because I I kind of wanted that romantic thing in every relationship I had. I wanted, you know, dustin hoffman to be standing on the corner of the street longingly looking at me as I'm getting out of my taxi because he'd just fallen madly in love with me, which he does in the corner of the street, longingly looking at me as I'm getting out of my taxi because he'd just fallen madly in love with me, which he does in the film. Of course, not particularly Justin Hoffman, but the character.
Speaker 1:I kind of went through my life in this kind of romantic dream bubble and of course nothing ever lived up to it, because you don't have scriptwriters writing your life for you. It's that romantic view of life that can sometimes lead you astray, and it's interesting. You had a very difficult childhood and you love your romance novels. How do you feel about that? Do you feel like can it just be a form of escape for you, or do you think it has kind of skewered your view on life in any way?
Speaker 2:I see that, as you know, my guilty pleasure. Whereas some people might grab a box of chocolate or whatever, it's something I can count on. You know, there's always a happily ever after. There's the arc of the storyline where there's the they don't want to really get together and then they do and they totally bond and then something terrible happens and challenges their relationship and they fix it and they're. That is very pleasing to me and um, and maybe it's not very realistic, but I see it for what it is, which is just a bit of fun and escape okay.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk about something else, because you mentioned it way back when, um, you said that you know, obviously it was difficult for you growing up as a child. And then you said and then the other difficult thing that happened for you was obviously, as you said, you know, not being straight, being gay and coming out. You said yeah so what? What was that experience like, and were your parents fully accepting?
Speaker 2:my dad died when he was just 62, which I'm going to be 62 this year, so another good example of why I live every single day to the fullest. Things coincided a lot of big things, and I know this is again another dark part of our history. But AIDS reared its head just as I was becoming a young adult and leaving home, and I think it saved my life to the timing of my going to college, finding a gay community. If I'd been a couple years younger, maybe I wouldn't be here because I wouldn't have had the safety information that I got when I arrived at college. So this is where it's going to make me cry, probably.
Speaker 2:I basically became an active adult in the time of AIDS and very, very much formed me as a person and my dad passing right at that same time.
Speaker 2:I came out to my mom just a couple of years after my dad died because I didn't want to add more to her plate, but she was very accepting and struggled with her belief system but still loved me no matter what.
Speaker 2:So yeah, aeon Mom, you know it was challenging to grow up and be sexually active in the 80s and 90s when so many people were getting sick and dying. I moved to Seattle as a young person, joined the Seattle Men's Chorus, which is a gay chorus, part of the big international gay choral movement, part of the big international gay choral movement, and so there was a good 12 years there or so, when we were losing people, you know, maybe every week we would have an announcement where somebody died and that was really really tough. And shoot, here it comes. However, the survivors, me included, are people who you know have been to war, right, and we've had that experience, the trauma, and we're trying to, you know, move forward and live our best lives. And yet another life challenge, right, that formed me as a person who could choose to go dark and, you know, go down that dark path or find the light and go that direction, and thankfully I've had enough wherewithal to be healthy, be, um, healthy and mentally healthy too, I'm going to say something to you now.
Speaker 2:David, yeah, please do, please do.
Speaker 1:That you. You laugh an awful lot and you giggle and you're very, but do you think some of that is to cover some pain?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know you open yourself up and it can be hurtful, so yeah, Does it scare you, though, to drop the smile and to sit in the pain, because I feel like we'll be talking.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know there are some times you've laughed at things and it's like there's a lot of past pain there.
Speaker 2:It's almost too much. Right, I've been through that dark time. I don't mean to laugh it off and be glib, by any means. These are very serious things and for me, I've gone through those very dark periods, periods, you know, lost so many people. These are things that really shape us and you know I did go through my dark. You know expressing my emotion periods for many of those experiences. For me, I want to look at the bright side and what did I take away from that? How did that shape me and how can I support others?
Speaker 1:It was a very dark period. It was like the flu, you know, but in terms of like it was spreading as easily as the flu, but yet people were just. I mean, in a way I suppose it's like Corona. Corona hit us, didn't it? Covid hit us and it was like bang. But the difficulty was with the AIDS and the whole HIV AIDS epidemic was there was huge anger and bitterness and resentment. They called it the gay plague, didn't they in the 80s? And there was huge blame. And, as you say, being a homosexual in the 80s was a very different time. People didn't have sympathy. That's what I'm saying. I think lots of people didn't have sympathy. It was like, well, you brought it upon yourselves because you're all just out there being promiscuous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a lot of us in the gay community have had a little PTSD from COVID Such a similar thing, yes, and handled way differently in the world and so a little anger and resentment about that and jealousy.
Speaker 1:The COVID disease spread across the world and was killing people, and so everybody went let's get a cure, let's get a vaccine. Whatever people think about the vaccines or not, they were created and it was all created very quickly. But, as you say, with the hiv epidemic, with the aids epidemic, you guys were just all left. It was like, well, that's your fault, we're not doing anything. And yet it was killing people across the world, as you say, thousands and thousands of people on a daily basis, and you were just left hung out to dry. Anybody with hiv was left hung out to dry until celebrities started stepping in, like elizabeth taylor it just show you.
Speaker 1:Shows you how strong society's uh moralistic feelings can cause people to behave really badly yeah, it's very true, it's very true, and I say it's great that things are changing. But are are they changing, david? I think they're changing on the surface to some extent.
Speaker 2:Let's not go too much into what's happening for us Americans right now. I know, I know that we as individuals have still have power right. We have power to influence and to perhaps model for others, who who may not think about the way they're behaving or treating others. And you know, by our, by our example, perhaps we can be a good influence, and slowly, you know, ripple effect change things you can only do what you can do and be the best person you can be and try and spread that word. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You said something on your Instagram Um okay, Fear is a powerful thing, but love is stronger. It always will be. So what are your fears, David? Is there anything that frightens you?
Speaker 2:Is there anything that frightens you? That's the really this. I call it a pandemic of fear and selfishness-centered behavior and thinking where. Forget your next door neighbor. You know what is it? What's in it for me? You know what do I get? I need my things. Whatever that is, fill in the blank and screw everybody else. Really, that's really concerning to me as a human, seeing how we don't seem to be evolving. Really, I have this very positive outlook, as you commented on, and I have trust that human nature is genuinely good oh my gosh, I'm getting so philosophical here but generally good. So how can we bring that goodness into daily lives and our interactions with others? And again, like I was saying about how that can ripple outwards and be a good thing in the world Turning that fear, like having a hard conversation with somebody who talks in a totally different way than you or thinks in a different way than you do. A one-on-one conversation seems really scary, and I don't mean confronting somebody, I just mean talking. That can be very healing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I think that can be very healing. Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I think, and I and just to say on the british thing, yeah, I think, uh, I felt like we were turning a corner and now I fear that we're turning back around the corner it seems like walls are becoming more important to people yes, then then open openness you know,
Speaker 1:yeah and uh, but I think, as you, said, we have to kind of try and reverse it, even just on an individual basis. We just have to keep talking, don't we?
Speaker 2:I think, uh, creative people do better in in group situations, or at least with some form of support. This would be my sort of a takeaway. I would recommend for folks If you didn't have like a consistent group, make one happen. You know, find a way to share with other creative folks.
Speaker 1:I think that in order to be a great artist, you have to experience life and people, because you bring that into your work.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:What do you bring into your work, then, david, from, because I, as you know, I've already, as we've talked about you know you're very empathic, you know you obviously connect with a lot of people, you like connecting with people, so does that actually filter into your creative work?
Speaker 2:you know, a lot of my work is just about creating um for myself, this sense of peace and harmony.
Speaker 2:I love artwork of all kinds that kind of invites you to like, lean in and appreciate the details. Maybe you get this sort of calming sense by looking at this piece of art. Or makes you think of something sense by looking at this piece of art, or makes you think of something, some kind of emotional, like peacefulness that's exuded from it, and so that's often one thing that I strive for when I'm making something, creating that kind of peaceful sense. So you'll often see in my work maybe it's subtle, maybe not, but this sort of dichotomy of a lot of negative space, a lot of calm areas with little bright shots of energy somehow, and I think this is very reflective of life. You know we have these lives that can be sort of, you know, average a lot of the time, but then we have these little highlights happening and um, anyway, that's, that's something. And then structure too, because structure for me means um, peace and order I wonder if once again, that links back to.
Speaker 1:I'm just fascinated by childhoods. I wonder if that links back to your childhood and actually that's one thing you didn't have was peace and calm oh, absolutely yes. So I wonder, if that once again is is you trying to reclaim that for yourself?
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, making a space where I can, I can have things orderly and calm and peaceful and there's no outside influence happening like a crazy mom or you know. I say that flippantly. I should shouldn't be disrespectful that way, but um well, it's your mom, it's your mom, it's your, it's my mom. Yeah, I can say. I can say you're using your words.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry, mom yeah, she was a lovely person.
Speaker 2:I don't want to. I want to leave people with a feeling that all was terrible.
Speaker 1:It's very, very lovely supportive person when she was feeling good and if she was bipolar, that's a very difficult thing to deal with, because it's very, very lovely supportive person when she was feeling good. And if she was bipolar, that's a very difficult thing to deal with because it's that once again, it's that mood swing, isn't it? So you know, when someone is is hyper, and then the next thing they're completely withdrawn, it's once again as a child. That's so difficult to deal with, because how do you navigate which emotion you're being presented with and and and who is your mom going to be the next day?
Speaker 1:yeah yeah, that's very difficult. Did you ever feel drawn because of that to when you were younger, to relationships that were um, with people who were avoidant of their emotions, who would withdraw and run and chase? So that kind of run, a chase, a dynamic?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. I don't think so yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know how you've navigated this. How have you navigated your life so well? Come on, David. What's the secret? My life?
Speaker 2:is. It's not extraordinary. This is the human. You know nature, right. Nothing is like perfect. Yeah, this is the human. You know nature, right. Nothing is like perfect. Yeah, I think. I just sort of I don't know if there was a turning point or anything, but I think all the life experience I've had has shown me that, you know, all we have is today, right now, like the second, and then this second. Right, this is it, and what you do with this is up to you. You're, you have, you know, as much as your health allows. You are in control of what's happening for you and you can make choices to make things, make things better, you know. So I'm going to choose to be supportive and positive whenever I can, and both with myself and with others, and, you know, be gentle in the world, and hopefully that will affect others in a positive way too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think it's inspirational. I think you're inspirational, david, because there are so many dark alleys that you could have gone down and never returned from. Yeah. So what would the? This is a tricky question. What would the adult David now say to his younger self then?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I love this question.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what would you say to the younger you then? Oh yeah, I love this question. Okay, so what would the? What would you say to the younger you who was at that point?
Speaker 2:oh gosh scared I'd say try all the things. Try all the things, don't be afraid to try all the things. You know I, I think I was a little more careful in growing up because, you know, probably saved my life too. But I'm talking about just anything. Um, don't be timid about life. And um, you know, worse that can happen is you'll maybe get a bump or you'll fail, but that's all, it's all life is. And then, um, what else? Yeah, don't be afraid to show people what you're making, even if your inner critic has said it's not up to snuff. You know, show it to others.
Speaker 1:So, on a final note then, david, what would you like to see for yourself in the future? Then, with all these lessons you've learned, and as you just said there, you'd say to the younger you, you know, be less timid, so where would you like to see the next 10, 15 years of your life going?
Speaker 2:yeah, oh, I believe me, I this is a question I've been really thinking about a lot because, right, I'm kind of in. I call it my fourth chapter um of life, at least I think I am. Hope you, you know, inshallah, I'm going to have, I'm going to have another decade or two here with, with everyone, um, you know what do I want that to look like? And right now I'm really enjoying this, this um, uh persona I've been able to share with people and encourage others on their creative paths. I'm going to, I'm going to keep doing that, and but start to that, but start to think about what do I want to leave as a legacy to in terms of my work, my body of work, and make sure I have enough time to make the things that just give me pleasure and with no other motivation than that. And, yeah, so those are. And then, you know, being with my husband and having good quality of life with him is very important too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I had the best spouse in the world, by the way. I'm just going to say no you don't.
Speaker 1:I've got him, I've got him.
Speaker 2:My, my Brian, is very supportive. He's always been, and um always encouraged me to, that I can do whatever I set my mind to and gives me space to create, and without jealousy of the time away from him, and that's. That's what a good, good spouse does.
Speaker 1:Well, you sound equally matched the two of you, because I think that's what you do, I think.
Speaker 1:you make people feel good and your smile is just effervescent and you know, you are such a genuinely lovely person and, as I say, I can say this because I contacted you and said you know, would you work with me? And you know you've said yes and you're looking forward to doing this project. And you know, you know, and I will, I will say to anybody listening right now you know that this is not about money. This project because it's it's really isn't, and david was like for me, this is about working as a collaboration and helping people to find their inner artists, and I could really see that within you. That that was the challenge for you, that's what you want to do, and I thought that was lovely what you said when we were arranging it. So I'm super excited about working with you. But, yeah, I think, I think we just all need to see your smile every day. So everybody go to your Instagram account, david, and just check out your smiley face every day. Put more smiles on there, please. Every story. I want a smiley face, um, but no, seriously, you, you are you what you've come through a lot which I had no idea about, um, and I think that that is an inspiration to people because, yeah, as you say, choose the best option for you. Choose wisely, choose to be positive, choose to do good things.
Speaker 1:And I'll leave you with a phrase that I heard, because it reminds me of something you said a little while ago.
Speaker 1:It was a fitness expert who was in I don't know if you've got it in the america's program called dragon's den is where business people sit and invest in companies, people do a pitch and there's a chap called Joe Weeks who is a huge, huge fitness guru over here, but very, very inspirational, because he came from a family that was very underprivileged I think there was a lot of drug abuse in the family, certainly very bad nutrition and he's now built this empire, all based on health and fitness but mental wellbeing as well. And he's now built this empire all based on health and fitness, but mental well-being as well, and he's only in his 30s. It's amazing, but he said that he remembered his dad, gave him a piece of advice and he said you must always go for everything in life, which is what you were saying, david, about not being timid. But he said if you're going to miss the bus, at least be running for it, and I thought that was a great phrase. We're not always guaranteed to get that bus, but as long as you're running for it.
Speaker 1:That's better than just standing back and hoping that it stops for you.
Speaker 2:So yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 1:Well, let's keep running for the bus together. Thank you so much Awesome. Thank you, Rachel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what a delight, thank you for the session.
Speaker 1:I feel like I had a little chat therapy here with Rachel. A little therapy and I didn't charge you. Perfect, Thank you.
Speaker 2:You're welcome, thank you.
Speaker 1:Just before you go, lovely listener, can I ask you a a favor.
Speaker 1:If you have a friend who you think would enjoy listening to this podcast, would you mind please telling them about it?
Speaker 1:It helps me to spread the word and you never know, they might get a life lesson out of it or, at the very least, just have a lovely 40 minutes of relaxing time for themselves. The second thing to say is that, if you have enjoyed this, it would really help me if you would give me a little quick like or a comment, especially if you're listening on one of the podcast platforms. It just means that when anybody lands on the page, they can see that people have reviewed it. They've liked it, enjoyed it and got something out of it. So if you wouldn't mind leaving me a review, that would be amazing. And the final thing to say is that if you are a business and you're thinking how do I get my message out there, well, you could do it on this podcast. All you have to do is reach out to me, rachel, at breakingtheblockscom. The details are below in the box. Thank you so much to everybody for listening and enjoying and saying the lovely things that you're saying.
