Breaking the Blocks
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Thanks for stopping by! Life is tough, and I think this podcast might offer you some relief. My aim? To inspire you to overcome some of your own blocks through the inspirational, honest, and at times, downright raw conversations with some wonderful guests, not huge celebrities, regular people like you and I. Let’s see how they have overcome the difficulties in their lives and offer you some advice and more importantly hope.
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Breaking the Blocks
Grief and Growth: Josh's Journey Beyond Loss
A poignant exploration of grief and healing unfolds as Josh Dunn shares his transformational journey following the loss of his mother. He discusses how creativity, particularly quilting, became a source of connection and solace in his life. The episode dives deep into personal stories and valuable lessons learned through navigating grief and toxic relationships.
• Josh talks about his close relationship with his mom and the impact of her passing
• The role of therapy in understanding and processing grief
• How creativity, specifically quilting, became a medium for healing
• Stories about making masks from his mother's fabric during the pandemic
• Insights on toxic relationships and personal growth post-grief
• Awareness on colorectal cancer and the importance of early detection
• Josh’s aspirations for creating a quilt that memorializes his mother
• Discussing the healing journey and lessons learned through loss
• Final reflections on love, memory, and embracing life amidst grief
If you enjoyed this episode, please like or comment on our podcast page to help spread the message.
You can follow Josh on Instagram @liftingandstitching
Well, hello, lovely listener, it is time for another episode of Breaking the Blocks. I'm your host, rachel Pearman. It is lovely to have your company Now. Do you know?
Speaker 1:When I started this podcast, my intention was that I wanted to share people's life stories, because I knew that myself and my friends and the people that I come into contact with all had a story. We all had something that had happened to us that perhaps had made us very wary of how we proceeded in the future with our relationships, had hurt us, had made us put up walls or unnecessary boundaries. Maybe our childhood sort of affected us and that meant that we continued in relationships that perhaps we shouldn't, because of our trauma bonds and our toxic behaviours, or maybe we had just gone through life until one day we lost someone. And that's the subject for today's podcast Grief, all-encompassing grief, and how we come through it, how we navigate it, particularly when it's the loss of someone really, really dear to us, like your mum. And that's exactly what happened to my guest today, josh Dunn. But I think you'll find this story one of hope, one of courage, one of love and how, as the Queen once said, grief is the price we pay for love, and Josh and his mother shared the most amazing love. So let's listen to what Josh has to say about what happened to his mum and how he overcame tremendous grief. He overcame tremendous grief.
Speaker 1:Hello, lovely Josh, hello Rachel. Well, hello, josh, don of Lifting and Stitching and I've just realized I know why you call yourself lifting and stitching in this moment Because of the weightlifting, right? Yeah, I only just got that in this moment. Because of the weight lifting, right? Yeah, I only just got that in this second. Anyway, hello, lovely josh. It is so nice to have you in the studio and thank you for anybody who's watching this. You will see that josh has coordinated beautifully with me by wearing blue.
Speaker 1:10 out of 10 straight away for the guest here and breaking the blocks today, josh yes, we are giving the blue, we're giving giving it.
Speaker 1:We're both Democrats, even though I'm not American. Anyway, it is so nice to have you in the studio and, josh, I found out about you through one of my other guests, ian Garland, and he said you have to interview Josh, you have to interview him, he's such a great guy. And then he said and you've got a wonderful story and I've read a little bit about your story and you do have a really touching story. I had a bit of a tear, so it is a very moving story but very uplifting. So we will come to all of that in today's episode. But let's start at the very beginning. Josh, so lifting and stitching, this is because you are into your weightlifting. But I have to say, on your Instagram profile I've written down a list of the things that you've written about yourself.
Speaker 2:Oh, I feel so researched.
Speaker 1:I know You've been researched. I thought this just made me laugh out loud when I was reading these things because I thought, wow, that's quite diverse.
Speaker 2:Quilter, weightlifter, quilter weightlifter, vegan cat daddy, husband into astronomy, librarian genealogy and a communicator. Yeah, oh yeah. All the just a bunch of random things in one big pot, right but which of those is the most important to you?
Speaker 1:let's start there vegan weightlifting quilting.
Speaker 2:yes, those are the are the most important, not in that exact order. I just found that that sounds the best in that string.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the quilting and the fitness part. Those really are the biggest part of my life. The vegan part came into my life about four years ago. I was I don't want to say I was dragged into it, I just kind of fell into it. My husband's vegan and he's been a vegan for like eight years, so when we first started seeing each other, I was cooking two separate meals and it was just like I'm doing double the work right now. This is not sustainable in all aspects of sustainability. So I tried it myself, was like okay, I can get behind this, and eventually found I was actually feeling better with a vegan diet. And I've stayed on the vegan diet for four years now. I feel powered by plants and powerful because of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. So you're nice and healthy, and then obviously you're into the weight lifting as well. So is that just like a regular fitness routine that you have?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, I started fitness getting back into it kind of like right at the height of the pandemic. But all the gyms were closed so I really started just by doing walking. I was about 50 pounds overweight at the time, really packed on a lot of weight through work, bad diet. Packed on a lot of weight through work, bad diet, bad, I would say, bad balance in life at the time.
Speaker 2:And the walking helped. I would go out every morning for an hour just before the sun was really crusting and once the gym started opening up I'd mask up and get into the gym, sort of adding little by little. So that way I felt empowered. Now I go, gosh, every like four to five days a week to the gym and lift iron, and I'm not looking to get swollen, juicy or anything, I'm just looking to feel good and feel strong. But it's also a great way to navigate through the stressors that I deal with in my personal life and professional life. It's just a great time for myself and my husband goes with me, so it's nice to have an accountability partner that keeps me honest on the schedule too.
Speaker 1:So was there a trigger for you then when you because you mentioned there that you were feeling out of balance and things, and I you know, I've been there myself, but usually there is some sort of trigger that will make you suddenly go right, that's it, I'm going to start working out. I mean, obviously I know you said with your husband it was like oh, I'm cooking so many meals. Did it all coincide together, the kind of vegan and the working out and the life balance, et cetera, or was it just a general sort of drip, drip, drip?
Speaker 2:I would say there was a big catalyst. The biggest part was the death of my mom. I was having a very hard time coping. She and I were I mean, if you could describe the closest best friends between a son and his mother you would find two pictures myself and my mom in that textbook. We talked all the time, thick as thieves, we had inside jokes, outside jokes the cleverest connection and when she died in November 2019, that was about I would say that was about five months before I started like really getting active again and trying to get my physical body back into movement, because I felt so emotionally paralyzed by that loss.
Speaker 2:I needed to do something to physically work through that. It was a tough time, it was a very tough time, and I remember feeling numb and scared through those first few months after she passed and therapy was helping, but I it's therapy's just a part of the equation. So I had to do something else that worked through it, with some kind of reward at the end of it morning walks, fitness, that had an immediate like what's that instant reward system? That gratification at the end of it that I felt like I accomplished something. Today, you know and it was during the pandemic too. We were all locked away from people, so I felt so incredibly alone from friends and family already, and even my co workers and I'm navigating this heavy loss that just happened moments or months ago, which felt like moments ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, were you married at the time.
Speaker 2:No, I was very single. I was fresh out of an abusive relationship that ended six. It was about six or seven months prior to mom's passing. I just want to say her name too, denise. She was known as Niecy by the grandkids, but Dee Dee by friends. Denise is my mom. So, um, but I was like still recovering or taking a heavy exhale that I finally survived a very toxic relationship and I was in a better place from that. But I was also finding that I was very alone and then, like, my mom was really much there for me but I was also there for her too, so we were both kind of really relying on each other while she was fighting cancer and while I was fighting or coming through this traumatic experience of a horrible relationship that really devastated me.
Speaker 1:This sounds like it was a very, very dark time in your life. I mean, you've got three things going on there. You've got the toxic relationship, you've got the death of your mum and then you've got COVID which, as you say, was incredibly isolating. I mean, my goodness me. So yeah, I can understand that would be a trigger point. Let me talk about your lovely mum then. So this very close relationship you had with her, just interestingly, was she a single parent? Was it just the two of you growing up together, or was your dad around? Did you have siblings?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we my dad was around my mom and dad were married for 27 years. Their marriage ended I would say I think it was 2012. In 2012, I was about 21 at the time I think the math ain't math and I'm not great at that but she went on and remarried a couple years later. But throughout my entire infancy and childhood, adolescent years, teen years, she was there, but they lived separately in the home. So mom had her own like living room set up and her own bedroom set up, so you could tell that there was a physical separation inside the house, but mom and dad were still very present and I would say co-parenting before we really knew what the co-parenting term was at the time. And then she moved out in 20, I have to laugh about it, but she moved out on Independence Day of 2012. I always thought that was so rebel. It was so rebel, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you had this. You formed this very close friendship when you were younger, and then it continued through, did your? She died. It was colon cancer, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, diagnosed and she kind of saw and felt the symptoms very early on into the year, the year of 2018. Um, by august 2018, we started seeing something was not right and she was just I wouldn't say complaining, but she was identifying that there was some symptoms going on. We were really encouraging her to have the conversation with her doctor. The sad part is she suffered from very heavy forms of anxiety, social anxiety, but what we call white coat anxiety, which is like the fear of going to a doctor's office and talking to a physician. I got a call December of 2018 from her saying Josh, I need to go to the ER, I'm not okay, and I mad rushed to Durham. It was about a 30-minute drive. It felt like the longest 30 minutes driving to her to get her. I took her to the ER, which was hours of waiting.
Speaker 2:After they did some scans and they found a tumor in her colon. It was in her transverse colon and it had metastasized already to her liver. They had seen and spotted lesions pretty much taking up the entire real estate of her liver. And you know someone that's very familiar with the way body organs and stuff work. They would say well, the liver. You can actually operate on a liver and possibly it'll regrow back too. But the lesions were so expansive and taking up all of it that at the point there was no point for that. It would have to go to chemo. So it was December 2018, when we got the official diagnosis that was stage I think it was called stage 3b colon cancer.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously, as soon as you say it's gone to the liver, people kind of go well, you know it's game over, really. But did they give you any hope? Or did they say, no, this is going to be a terminal cancer yeah, and not at the ER, it was at the oncology.
Speaker 2:So they referred her to oncology and what the term that we got was ER gave diagnosis, oncology gave prognosis and the moment we saw prognosis we knew it was not a matter of if it was about when my sister was at that appointment with her. She remembered saying they gave her six months to five years, and I just remember thinking that window is so long and I just can't imagine for I'm an empathetic person I can't imagine what it's like to be in mom's shoes right now, having to think I could be facing my transition from this physical life right now, in six months or even five years from now, and having to suffer the pain through it as well along the way, on top of the side effects through chemotherapy on top of it too, which are just as equally as brutal as the condition it's trying to treat, just as equally as brutal as the condition it's trying to treat.
Speaker 1:That's a really interesting perspective that you had there, because most people, when you hear that diagnosis six months to five years, would be thinking, oh okay, so great, we've got this person for maybe five years, whereas you were almost thinking the opposite. You were kind of thinking in a way I know it sounds awful, but do you think you were thinking I hope actually it's more like the six months period, because I don't want my mom to suffer, which is so selfless of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was. I had a little bit of two. It started actually more like long term because I, when I heard long like the longevity that she could possibly be facing this fight, I thought I have time with her. Still, I cause my family, I'm I'm the baby baby as she called me, that was my nickname, but there's four of us and I'm the baby of the four and she's been, she's been with them for their marriages, for grandchildren. And then my twin brother had just gotten married, just literally before she was diagnosed with cancer.
Speaker 2:So I'm like maybe, just maybe, in these five years I can give her one more marriage to see her last child marry off and meet someone special. So that's how it started. I thought, give us those five years, please. And then I started to see how hard the cancer and the chemo was assaulting her body and it became like, okay, I have to step away from this selfish desire for her to stay in my life, in physical life, and acknowledge that she's suffering and she just needs some peace of mind. So, please, I I got comfortable with the idea that she's going to have to go when her body says it's time. Um, and we did actually get a little more than the six months we got about. I think it was 10 months total. Um, just a little bit more, but not a full five years, yeah yeah, 10 months is not very long, though, is it too?
Speaker 1:and the thing is as well. I find there was another lady who's a regular quilter here with us, like crafty monkeys, and her husband of 25 years sadly got diagnosed with cancer and was given a similar diagnosis. I think it was more like, um, you know, 10 months to two years, and he actually only lasted four months. And the thing is that I think in the first couple of months they started to try and plan all these things they were going to do in that 10 months, at least. You know, look, in the summer we can go, and in the Christmas time we can go, we'll give you 10 months. But actually he got so sick and I think that's the thing. When you hear that diagnosis, a lot of people think, well, we can cram all these things into those months. But actually those months are just filled with pain and with suffering because that person is terminally ill, and I've just seen my stepfather go through it with cancer and died in January. It is a horrible, horrible death, because it just basically eats you alive, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:So your poor mom.
Speaker 1:Did you manage to do anything, though together. That was really a memory that you hold on to in that period.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's two. It kind of goes a little bit with what you were just sharing with me and the first was my twin brother. So I have a twin brother that's 25 minutes older than me and he and I. She called the two of us to come over there to help her move some furniture around her house and we were just hanging out with her and being just complete goofballs. When Kyle and I are together, we have this sense of humor that ascends verbal language, it's more physical and we interact with the objects in the room. And she was just howling in laughter and taking so many pictures and just relishing in what she called us her bookend babies. She would just relish in that moment. I felt that I still picture it in my head. I don't remember what the jokes were or what we were interacting with, but I remember the most how she felt and how we felt and it was just this moment of immense, deep joy and I think about it all the time. The second piece and it's a little somber, but it was kind of like a bookmark moment.
Speaker 2:Mom was very secretive toward the latter stage of her fight against the cancer. I don't think she wanted us to know how severe it was she. It had metastasized further into her lymph nodes, our lymph node system I can't remember the actual terminology for it, but once it gets to that point it's pretty darn close. And she hid that detail from us until we actually found the notes from the doctor after she had passed. But I got a call in September of 2019.
Speaker 2:This was about a month before she had to go to the hospital from my cousin, hoping that she's going to be around until Christmas to do a big Christmas thing together. But I don't think she's got the time. She's not telling you something. She's hiding this information from you. So I think you need to do something sooner rather than later. And I bless my cousin for sharing that, because we did a big family gathering of just her kids and their spouses and all the grandbabies, and we made intentional time on October I think it was October 9th and it felt like Christmas and it had. There was no gifts. It wasn't about a big dinner, it was about big love and being with her and I just I remember seeing her smiling so much and holding all her babies, her children. It was a beautiful memory. It happened literally three or four days before she had to go to the hospital for her last hospital visit.
Speaker 1:That really is beautiful, that's fantastic, and how lovely for you all to be able to come together and to give that to her as well, and so healing for all of you.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely Every single one of us walked away with a healing, healing moment of joy together, just in that time.
Speaker 1:So she went to the hospital and then were you actually with her when she passed.
Speaker 2:I wasn't. She went to hospital. She was there for about a week and they were just trying to get her pain management under control. And once they got her to a place where it was managed, then I had the conversation with her doctors about transferring her to hospice and palliative care. I asked them you know what are the options, where can we have her get the best care that she needs? And they gave me two. And there was one hospice home literally 10 minutes from my house, and I immediately threw my hand up and said that's the one. She's going there, she's close to me, I need to be close to her.
Speaker 2:And she was there for two weeks up to the day of her passing, which was November 5th. But I was with her every day and night, sleeping on a cot by her bedside. This didn't happen until she was unconscious, though my brothers were visiting her one night when she was still kind of here too. And there's this little thing, there's this thing about the transition, where someone gets that last surge of energy. It was a brief moment one evening where Kyle and my oldest brother, brent, walked in and saw her actually up out of the bed. She was doing these leg stretches, she was making jokes with them. I was like what, oh my gosh? I got so excited. And the next day I was like this is my moment, I can have that moment with her.
Speaker 2:She was unconscious. She had gone unconscious the next day. I was like this is my moment. I can have that moment with her. She was unconscious.
Speaker 2:She had gone unconscious the next day and she was out for about three days and I started staying on a cot, day and night, waiting for her to have another moment. She finally did. She came to one night on that third day it was about 1 am in the morning. I got on her bedside, I sat on her bed and she brought her hand up, held my face and I'll never forget what she said. She just said I love you more. She used to say that to me at the end of every phone call and I just said Mom, thank you, thank you. You were the best mom, the best mom I could have ever asked for. And she just smiled and that was the last memory I had with her.
Speaker 2:She went unconscious again after that and then she passed on November 5th, which was about three or four days later, and we knew it was coming, because that night or that day before she passed, I was with my sister in her room and we were just looking out the window. It was just like it was a cloudy, gray day, but you could feel there was this weight. It was like this weight of the environment outside, the environment inside. That was a weight of quiet and still. And I just looked, ashley looked at me, my sister. She looked at me and said I think this is going to be the day I really do. And I just nodded in agreement, like are we ready? Like can we handle this? And that night at 1am we got the call from the palliative care center saying that she had passed home again.
Speaker 1:I mean how lovely to have that moment with her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't think I was gonna get it and I got it and I'm so glad she got it too she needed to be thanked, rachel.
Speaker 2:She was a great mom. I couldn't have asked for a greater mom. She knew how to raise a gay son. It's no different than raising any child. You just love them. You love them unconditionally. You don't treat them any differently. You just identify that they are so, so special and so equal to all the siblings that you have to any other individual. You just love them a little bit more because the world is going to be cruel to them, and she knew that from day one that she saw that spark in me, I got. I was very lucky to have such a wonderful, wonderful mother.
Speaker 1:What an amazing, amazing lady yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I, I, I knew who she was as an adult, as a mom, as being a lover of all colors of the rainbow and people and life. But it was further verified at her celebration of life when a high school friend of hers came up to me. His name was I don't remember his first name, but I remember his last name because it was true love. I thought it was so lovely, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he came up to me. He was like your mom and I were best friends in high school and she was the only one that treated me like a real human being and he identified two as gay in high school and she was the only one that treated me like a real human being and he identified, too, as gay. So I knew instantly this isn't something that mom just became to be. She was born and brought up in this world with a spirit of love and compassion and kindness for people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, she sounds like an amazing lady yeah, that's why I honor her so much now, yeah, well let's talk about this because, yeah, you, there are so many, there are so many things I want to say, and it's like which order to say them in. There are so many questions. When she had gone and there was that initial period, I'm sure that you were thrown into a very, very dark place, a very, very dark place. For anybody who is going through that very dark place right now, what can you say to someone? Because I just think your grief and the way you're talking about her is so profound, that loss. And here we are, many years down the road, and I can still feel that it is so ingrained, still and very much alive within you. So, in those initial dark days, how did you manage? Because I would think it would have been incredibly difficult for you.
Speaker 2:It was. I mean, I identified that there was some bad behavior starting, you know the not taking care of myself. Identified that there was some bad behavior starting, you know the not taking care of myself, over consuming on food I'm not going to be afraid to admit, I was over consuming on wine and alcohol at the time to really just kind of muscle through and I identified that this isn't healthy and this isn't what mom was going to want for her, her baby baby was going to want for her baby baby. So I sought therapy immediately. That was the first thing I did, and he was specifically an expert in grief counseling and grief counseling for LGBTQ people. It was so important to find someone that I can identify with or who can identify with me in return. I felt like I needed that because I was having such a hard time, even with all the conversations I was having with friends and family, and it was helpful to talk about it. But it wasn't providing tools. It wasn't providing a pathway or a way to holistically handle what was going on. So I started meeting with a therapist and it was so helpful to learn about two special tools that he gave me. He told me about this.
Speaker 2:You may have heard about this, rachel, but it was a grief process called the inverted bell curve or U-shape of grief and it's essentially like you start with the immediate sudden shock at one platform or one plateau and then you get into this area of where you're processing the grief and it comes with these suppressed emotions of deep sadness, deep grief. But this U-shaped grief isn't perfectly smooth. It's bumpy along the way and you come out onto another plateau. It's not the same plateau you were on before. It's a new one where you're walking hand in hand with a grief going forward.
Speaker 2:I had to find a new relationship with this grief, to identify it that it wasn't there to interrupt me as a human being. It was there to help me as a human being and to identify that mom hasn't departed me at all. I just had to find a new way to connect with her. So that grieving process, identifying that U-shape, that bell curve, really helped me visualize. I'm a big visualizer. It helped me visualize how I can navigate this path and work through the grief and not around it yeah, and that's a really important thing to do.
Speaker 1:I've just said this in a post on Instagram that I did that. I've had a really bad couple of months. I mean a really bad couple of months. I mean a really bad couple of months, but what was really essential for me was to sit in it and feel all those emotions and, as you've just said there, it's about feeling and processing and working your way through it, not round it, not past it. It's about working your way through it and feeling all of those things, which is really important.
Speaker 2:It's huge. It's as equally paramount as the gravity and weight of the actual, the grief itself, to do it so healthily in a way, to grieve it in a healthy way. I'll recommend a very helpful podcast, especially. This is great for folks that might be familiar here in America. But are you familiar with Anderson Cooper?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he does a great podcast called all there is and he brings on, you know, folks from the entertainment industry news and has deep conversations about their journey in grief. He's had three seasons already. It's helpful. It takes away the loneliness that comes with grief. A lot of us and I'm not sure if you've been there, but you probably feel that you're alone sometimes in the grief and it's not. The one thing that the last few years I've realized is that we all have to have a relationship with grief. We're just not talking about it and that's why it's lonely at times.
Speaker 1:And I don't think it's just grief, I think it can be also just depression. And I mean, I'm surrounded by people, you know, and I sat with my daughter in a coffee shop last Friday and you know she said how are you? And I just burst into tears and she's only 20. And she sat next to me and, uh, you know, she said you have such amazing people around you and they love you. And she said a really lovely thing to me as well. I'm just going to share it with you because it was when you said about your mum. She because she said a similar thing to me, you know, when she'd just gone off to university, and she said I could not have asked for a better start in my life, you know, than what you've given me, because you've given me this amazing kind of strength.
Speaker 1:But this specific moment when I said I'm just in such a dark place, maddy, right now I'm in such a dark place, and she said I'm in such a dark place and she said you know, mom, she said because of you, I've learned to be this little torch in people's lives and shed a nice shine, little lights on them and I am able to help them with their feelings. She said but you, you're this massive light beam. And she said you throw light into people's lives. And she said everybody in my life, all my friends, some of who have gone, who were toxic and nightmares. She said you gave something to every single one of those people. And she said and you have to remember that that's who you are. Now, that is an amazing thing to hear, josh. Yeah, but even that, I couldn't still get out of that darkness, even though someone is saying something so wonderful and you know that you're loved. And she said to me we're not talking about leaving this planet here right now, are we? You're not there, are you? And I said no, but I'm in such a dark space.
Speaker 1:But it's so important to talk about these things and to work through the emotions, and I've been sat and I've been working through it. Today actually is a bit of a turning point for me. Today I feel like I'm coming out of that place again now. But it's really you have to, you have to sit with it. You can't, as you were saying, with the alcohol, you can't numb it. You can't, you know, because if you just do all that and we've all done it, we've all done it you know old on it, you know my, my thing. I used to sit, and you know, pour the big glass of wine out because we want to numb it. We want to run from these emotions, but they'll just come back tenfold yeah, I mean those behaviors.
Speaker 2:What they do is they suppress it and once you take some of the pressure off of it, it's just going to bubble right back up again.
Speaker 1:You're not running away from it, you're just keeping it at bay you got your counseling, which is an amazing, I think an absolutely amazing thing to do. But then we're going to talk now about the quilting, because this is what was so wonderful was that you were now able to start connecting with your mum again through this. So tell us what actually happened there and how long was it before you? Because you started. You found her quilts, didn't you? And her work. So when was that? When were you able to go into her room where those quilts were and start to kind of think about your mum in that way again?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I, as her executor she gave me the duty of that was to manage her belongings and estate and things like that was to manage her belongings and estate and things like that, and in doing so I stumbled upon all her unfinished projects and her quilts that she made. She was a quilter, but she was a Renaissance woman, let me just go there. She was a quilter, she did embroidery, she was a baker, a soap maker. I mean, she did all the things. She was an incredible artist too. She could draw the most realistic portraits. There is a picture that my mom drew of my cat hanging on the wall upstairs that she would draw during her chemotherapy treatments and it looks like a realistic portrait of her. And she played piano like a concert pianist that you've never heard before. She just never made it to a stage because she just was so nervous. But I would hear it and that's all that mattered. But her cool projects.
Speaker 2:I saw this, this stash of fabric, the stash of whips, works in progress that never made it through, some of which are also her grandmother's work from like the fifties, and I just grabbed it all. I just took it all in. I had no idea what I was going to do with it, but I remembered it because I could remember as a child watching her make quilts. She had this giant hoop and she would put the quilt sandwich inside this lap hoop, scooch that thing over to her when she's sitting in her little. It was like a wingback chair. It was blue and I would sit underneath this hoop of a quilt and watch her hand quilt these quilts. She didn't stand the piecing, she hated doing the piecing of the quilt, but she loved to hand quilt and you could tell by the meticulous stitches of those, those stitches on that, those projects that she made.
Speaker 2:So I grabbed all these things up, brought them to the house and and I think it was about April or May of 2020, there was like an extreme mask shortage, like face mask shortage, because everybody was buying them up and I thought, well, mom was a person of service and she always would do things for her community when her community needs something most. So I took her fabric and made face masks and I made about I think it was 215 masks and gave them out to post offices, police, I mean, you name it teachers, some of my coworkers that couldn't find any, and they all have fabric from her stash now from those early days of those masks and I found that I was enjoying this. What can I do beyond the face mask? So I started making quilt blocks like traditional quilt blocks.
Speaker 1:Had you ever quilted before? Had you ever done it?
Speaker 2:No, I had no idea. Yeah, I mean, I made like a little small mini, a very small little mini quilt when I was a kid on her sewing machine, but it was atrocious and I was like this is not for me. I never went back to it, but, yeah, I was like I got to do this. I was like this is not for me. I never went back to it, but, yeah, I was like I gotta do this. I feel like I feel like this is something I could do to stay close to her and still feel the fabrics that she, too, felt with her own fingers, to still feel like I'm having a conversation as I work through each stitch and each block. And, um, I had all these scraps left over from the face mask. So I started making just nine patch blocks with the scraps that were left behind of it and getting comfortable with quarter inch seams and you know all the making sure your points match, which none of mine did at first. But it was so therapeutic and it felt like she was sitting with me the whole time and she was.
Speaker 2:I had a picture of her. There's this. I still have it. Actually there's a picture of her when she was like in her teens or twenties, sitting with her mom and her grandmother and one of her sisters at this quilt on a loom, and they were all working on the quilt together. So she sits there with, was sitting there with me and still sits with me to this day there as I work on my projects. That's where it began and you know it was all traditional stuff in the start, but now it's like it just it's blossomed into an art form and expression and a journey with her along the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and did you actually finish her quilts off? Because, as you said, she left all, so did you finish them?
Speaker 2:I did so. There was one in particular. I didn't, though, because I wanted it so badly then because I wanted to cuddle in it, but I didn't want to ruin it. I knew I was like I'm going to ruin this, but I need this quilt now. So I actually had taken the quilt top to a longarm quilter. She reviewed it and assessed it with me, patched up some of the little imperfections that were starting to tear away a little bit, and she finished off the quilt sandwich for me. And then I had another quilter show me how to do the binding on it from my local quilt shop. So there was a lot of love poured into that quilt.
Speaker 2:Mom. You know I had the intention to get it done. I wish I could say I did something to it, but I did put a label on it. So I did have a part in that. And yeah, and that sucker immediately was on my bed for gosh the winter months of 2020. I always felt like she was right there.
Speaker 2:But then she had other quilts too that she never finished Like. There was one that she started to finish from her grandmother a trip around the world, that what we called Mama. We called her Mama. She had pieced all these colorful blocks together by hand and I could tell those were hand stitches. And then mom started working on it by machine because of the stitches were very tight and even, and so when it came to me unfinished, I didn't have any of the leftover fabric from it, so I just squared it up and then I did the backing, the quilt work on it and the binding, so that generational piece. While I may not get a like a cuddle factor with it, so small, it's something we did together. Yeah, that's my favorite piece that the three of us worked on yeah, yeah, it's so lovely and you know what?
Speaker 1:I'm sure it wasn't just a photograph that was there. I'm sure that she was with there, there with you the whole time. I'm sure she was.
Speaker 2:Rachel. I always feel like she's right there, Like whenever I'm working on those projects or I'm at my sewing machine. I really feel like I, like I said, I'm a visualizer, I can visualize. She's got her hands on my shoulders when I'm working on these projects and it's. It's comforting, it's joyful, it feels it doesn't feel lonely. You know quilters will often tell you that it's comforting, it's joyful, it feels it doesn't feel lonely. You know quilters will often tell you that it's a lonely hobby at times. I don't feel lonely because I know she's right there with me with each stitch and each project.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I firmly believe in the afterlife and in us being sent signs that people are with us. My dad, when he left my mother, there was a song. Well, she left him, actually, she left him, and then it was all whether they were going to get back together or not, and he sent her a record, a track, and it was if you leave me now, by, I don't know, is it tense, is it? No, I can't remember the band. If you leave me now, you take away the biggest part of me, though anyway. So I remember this.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was like eight at the time and, uh, you know, that was a very important moment in, you know, because she was divorcing him and he gave her this song, and you don't hear that song very much on the radio at all. Anyway, the other day I went into the kitchen, as I said, down, down, down, and I stood there in the kitchen and I literally had my head in my hands like this, and I was like I don't know how I'm gonna get out of this, and the radio was playing, and on the radio had been beyonce, I mean goodness knows what, and then suddenly that track came on the radio oh wow, don't you love that?
Speaker 1:I love it because, in that moment I stood there and I said hello, dad, and I know that he was in that kitchen going come on, kid, come on, because that that's how he knew to get through to me. I mean, my dad and I always sort of talked about, we always loved music. He introduced me to like kate bush and the carpenters. You know we, we loved music together. That was our thing. So that was how he was communicating in that moment. I firmly believe it, because why was that track on amidst beyonce and rihanna? Well, I mean, what playlist was that? So I firmly believe so. I think that she's there with you the whole time. I think she's here with us now actually, oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:She's probably wondering why I'm not in my sewing room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I bet she's enjoying the British accent. I bet she's kind of going oh, this is interesting, yeah, she's fancy. So now you have. So you, I mean the quilting has become quite a big thing in your life now, hasn't it? And you were just at quilt con with your wonderful quilt was called the red giant. That's right, isn't it?
Speaker 1:that's it um, which I absolutely adored, um, just your use of color and it's it's very up my street what you did there and the you know the striping, and I thought it was clever how the black went into the red and the circle in the middle and all that.
Speaker 1:I loved it and and you got that to quilt con. And now, if anybody is listening and thinking, oh well, anybody can put a quilt into a thing, no, I saw so many huge quarters saying I'm a reject, I'm a quilt con reject. I didn't get in and you got yours in. They exhibited your quilt oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's okay. The shock was wild. I could not believe it got in. It's a tough competition to get into. You know there was, I think. When I got my letter they confirmed there was like 2300 quilts submitted, yeah, and only 460 got through. So it's like what 25 acceptance rate? Wild, absolutely wild. Yeah the fact and, rachel, this was my first ever quilt to ever be in a show, never had a show quilt before so I just my mind blew. I was like are you sure you want the red giant in your show?
Speaker 1:It's fantastic. It's a great corner.
Speaker 2:I loved it. It was such a fun journey. You know, I love the stars, I love space science, I love, you know, just the 80s retro effect with it too. I'm a little bit of an 80s buff. I only came into it recently because my husband's a big fan of the 80s, but the idea struck me when I was watching Stranger Things, which is on Netflix.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it is so 80s-esque nostalgia. Yeah, and there was a scene that had that color palette. Now the quilt Red Giant was created for specifically a challenge the Ruby and Bee fabric challenge. Ruby and Bee is the solid line for windom fabrics and, um, the keynote speaker selects up to, or select six fabrics and you can use three or all six, but no less than three. And I'm like, okay, if I'm gonna do this, don't overwhelm myself, let me just do three. And there was a scene in Stranger Things that had those three colors the poppy, the stormy and the slate. Like there it is. That's my palette.
Speaker 2:And you know I was thinking about the whole stars, the whole thing about how stars are born and how they die. A red giant is a dying star. Our star right now is dying. It's just right now in its yellow phase. We have a little bit more of a smaller solar star than some other super massive stars that are out there, but when I think it's like in 5.4 billion years from now, our star will go into a red phase where it's shedding, it's growing and it's shedding NASA as it does. So that was the concept behind it and to me I think it's just a beautiful honor to say thank you, star, for giving us years of of a habitat, a space in this vast, vast universe of billions of stars like you and um, here's your, here's your flowers. Thank you so much for it. That's so nice, absolutely terrifying it was so cool.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's well deserved, definitely well deserved thank you, so I'm sure your mom would have been so proud of you.
Speaker 2:well, she, she is. She's up there, but if she was, next to you.
Speaker 1:She would have been like there's my boy.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you, I waited. When I got in Thursday I did not go immediately to my quilt. So I'll be very transparent. I did not make that quilt alone. I designed and pieced it, but the quilting was done by a fabulous longarm quilter named Lacey Messerly of Messy Quilts.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I waited for her to get in. Her flight didn't get into like 1.30 on Thursday, so I was like I'm waiting for you, I promise I'm not going over there. She was like, oh no, go see your quilt. I'm like, no, no, no, we did this together, this is our moment together, and when I walked with Lacey I know mom was walking with us, I could feel her, I visualized her. She was there. She probably had a smartphone, that celestial cloud that she exists in taking pictures, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a great full circle moment. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Like I say, the fact that you know you got into the quilting because of her and then there you are at quilt con, I mean that would have blown her mind, absolutely blown her mind. So what do you think you learned from your mom then? What? What lessons has she given you? I mean, you're clearly so compassionate and empathic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are many lessons she's given to me. The biggest I have to thank her for from very early days to who I am today in my shoes, is empathy. Empathy is a beautiful, beautiful quality to hold in your spirit and in your soul. She taught this by all kinds of lessons beyond just verbal and experiential. But every Christmas she made baked goods for all of our folks back at home, like post office, libraries, sheriffs and police offices. She would make these giant trays of goodies and she insisted we go with her to deliver them. Sheriffs and police offices she would make these giant trays of goodies and she insisted we go with her to deliver them and thank them for their service every Christmas time. That is where the threads of empathy were taught at a very young age and we carried that through our lives. I thank her for my sense of service because of that, showing gratitude and appreciation to folks that do good deeds. I do that now. Today I like to make charity quilts and raise funds for the hospice home that took great care of her and assisted her through her time of transition. And I thank her for my creativity.
Speaker 2:She taught me creativity. She taught me creativity. She taught me how powerful it is. It's not just about what you can learn in school, which she always insisted. Education is important, but your creativity is also important too. To exercise and love, just absolute love. There's nothing wrong with it. No one's hurt by love.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to ask you something, because at the very beginning of this interview, you mentioned that you had been in a toxic relationship which imploded around the time of your mom's death. Yeah, that's quite interesting, because I think we all have toxic relationships and I think that they are there to teach us lessons so that we can grow and hopefully improve our selves and our lives, but they are very difficult. So I'm interested, because I'm interested if you feel like you were a different person before your mom's death and after your mom's death 100%, 100%.
Speaker 2:You know, I think before my mom died I kind of had this like unrealistic I don't know if I would call it unrealistic, but maybe almost like this, I have to say, a doormat kind of personality.
Speaker 2:I kind of just took things a lot before she passed away and I didn't really stand up for myself a lot and I was just a little I just kind of let things happen and didn't really take initiative for myself.
Speaker 2:When she was still here too, in hospice or in hospital, rather, she said to me that the one thing she regretted in her life was not standing up for herself sooner and coming through the grief knowing how hard that was and then carrying these lessons that she, or these stories that she carried and gave to me, I knew I had to change something when I came around to that new plateau, that I had to create something new for myself, be with myself for some time, carry this grief, carry this new sense of identity that I was coming into, and it will, in turn, bring about the kind of reality that is so much more healthier and sustainable for my own self going forward, and it did. I think it was great lessons that I I carried forward from that you know. I'm not saying that everything's sunshine and rainbows. We all have challenges that kind of pop up and you know break a little, you know momentum in your block if you will, but I've learned how to manage them and navigate them better because, of what I had to go through.
Speaker 2:I hate that the relationship I was in prior to my marriage was so toxic and it took so long for us to get to a resolution, and I can't. I mean, the empathic side of me is knowing that he too was dealing with some trauma that was causing him to behave as he was in the relationship. But I'm just glad that we got to a place where we both recognized it was time to close it, end it and move away from one another before it's very difficult, though, isn't it?
Speaker 1:because when I find that toxic relationships, you're so entwined together because your trauma is bringing you together, and when it's trauma that's bringing you together, it's pain that's keeping you together and then the idea of losing that. It's a very strange. It's a very strange dynamic, and we're talking here about it can be friendships, it can be work colleagues, it can be romantic relationships, but if it is pain and trauma that's brought you together, it's so difficult to get out of that trauma-based relationship.
Speaker 2:You have to heal that trauma within yourself, but you know I was untangling that trauma with him so that way I can get out of the crap, the grasp of that toxicity. But I think unconsciously he was too. I don't think he realized he was also untangling that trauma and identified that he also needed a change. He just probably didn't realize he needed the change as well. And you know that's probably a graceful way of acknowledging the dissolution of that relationship. But I'm glad it happened because I'm sure today he's in a better place and, you know, has a better, better surrounding around him because of what the two of us went through together.
Speaker 1:Where do you think your trauma came from, though? Because it's interesting, you know, you had such a great relationship with your mom and, it sounds like, with your entire family, and you've got this twin brother. So where did your trauma come from, though? Because, as you said, I mean, I presume in that relationship you were overgiving and he probably wasn't giving enough I presume that's what was happening there and he probably wasn't giving enough.
Speaker 2:I presume that's what was happening there. Yeah yeah, I think a lot of it probably came from just seeing what an unhealthy relationship looked like growing up. I mentioned earlier that mom and dad were separated inside the home.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We, as infants, saw this. Growing up. We had to experience this from young toddlership into our teen years and our very young adult lives before she finally left. And it's not to put fault on her, it's just I know that she was lacking a resource to get out until it was finally time to do so. She admitted that, you know, when I was having conversation with her in hospital that she wished she had changed some of the way she handled her relationships because she doesn't feel like she was able to find the ability to stand strongly on her own earlier than she should have, and she knew that she had impacted or created some kind of negative effect from that behavior. And I think that's where a lot of my trouble from my past relationship was founded in.
Speaker 1:I really do yeah, I mean your mom has taught you so much in so many different areas of your life.
Speaker 1:In a way, it's like your mother was your. I've said this before to nicole leth, whose father, sadly um, committed suicide when she was 17. But I said he he used to take her to a meetings when she was 17. But I said he used to take her to AA meetings when she was younger and he showed her the kind of painful side of life. And I said to her I wondered if it was because he always knew he was going to leave this world early. And she said yes, she believed that. And I said, in a way, he was like a soulmate for you, though, because he kind of taught her all these things about her life and then she's able to go on and and progress as she has, and I feel like your mom really was a guiding light in so many. She's affected so many areas of your life, hasn't she? Your creative and artistic life, um, your empathic life, but then you know, coming through that trauma-based relationship and standing up for yourself, and all in one period of time as well yeah, yeah, she persevered.
Speaker 2:I mean, I hate to, you know, I know she suffered. You know, just, she didn't just suffer inside illness, she suffered inside choices of you know, a relationship that was failing inside the house and she did as best as she could for as long as she could until it was time to go. You know, she stayed. She said it herself. She stayed to be there for us, to protect us, to be the mom that we deserved and that needed, that we needed, rather, and there's also a sense of guilt that comes into that kind of message too. Right, like I feel almost in this. I don't feel this anymore, but at the time that she shared that, I felt like, wow, you know, I feel so bad.
Speaker 2:She stayed so long in this really unhealthy marriage to be there with us. You know how selfless, how incredibly selfless of a mother to do something like that. And you know, when she left, in 2011, 2012, I can't remember the exact year, but she got to finally do all the things she wanted to do, 2012. I can't remember the exact year, but she got to finally do all the things she wanted to do. She got to start traveling a little bit. She didn't like get on an on an airplane but um, she went to. She would go to the beach more often. She started doing things like getting back into her own small business work again that she couldn't do back at home. So it was nice to see her take time again for herself. It was a really empowering vision to see.
Speaker 1:Let's just raise some awareness as well about your mum's illness, because obviously you're wearing your blue sweatshirt today, because you said that this month is a particular Cancer Awareness Month, so let's talk about that, and if anybody else out there is suffering from any symptoms, it would be good to try and get them, to encourage them to talk to their doctor. So what would you like to say on that, josh?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the month of March is colorectal cancer awareness month. I know that colon cancer is rising. I think a lot of folks know that colon cancer diagnoses are rising. That's because awareness is increasing. It's getting out. People are getting tested. The thing I want to encourage people now and I know my mom would say the same thing get tested sooner, rather than you think.
Speaker 2:There are so many resources out there. The first resource is a conversation with family to learn your history, your medical history. The second conversation is a conversation with your doctor. Talk to your physician about what you've learned through those family histories and what you can do next to be preventative. The best and most powerful way to detect and get cured from colon cancer is early detection. That's the most important step and then from there, if you feel a little like, oh, where do I start? There are resources. My favorite one is the Colorectal Cancer Alliance. It's a website. It's a 5013C organization here in the United States, but they have a whole ton of resources and toolkits that you can leverage to figure out where do you start and how do you navigate. There's plenty of resources out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as you say, early detection is the key, isn't it? So that's the main thing, yeah, so a couple of things before we go, then, josh, yeah. As you say early detection is the key, isn't it? So that's the main thing. So a couple of things before we go, then, josh, yeah, what lessons do you think you still have to learn in this lifetime? Because you've learned so many and you've had a pretty tough four or five years, so where do you still see yourself learning and moving on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to admit, I think that I still live in a space where sometimes I get a little reactionary or impatient. I do have a lot of impatience. My mama was not a very impatient person, she was more of a patient individual. So what I would like to still practice and learn in my life is the act of patience. It's a very intentional process. It requires mindfulness. It's a journey. It's a very nice journey to take once you get there. I'm getting there. It's just taking a little bit.
Speaker 1:You're impatient there, I'm getting there. I want to get there now. I'm so impatient.
Speaker 1:I'm so impatient to get patient ironic right, yeah, yeah yeah so, yeah, but the great thing is, though, josh, that you're aware of it. You're aware of what you want to improve, you're aware of wanting to learn that patience and that's the first stage, isn't it in anything? That's the first step in anything awareness of the cancer, awareness of the mental health issue. It's about awareness. As soon as you've got that awareness, then you can start doing something about it yeah, it's very powerful.
Speaker 2:Awareness is very powerful yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then my other question is for your mum, as a legacy going forward is there anything that you would like to do as a legacy for her? It could be anything. It could just be something within yourself and your personality, or it could be something that's related to the quilting industry, or whatever. Is there anything that you would like to do that would be? You would go yep, that's for you mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, my gosh, there's so many things I've thought about this. I've done a few things already, but what I would really love, love, love, love to do is to make a quilt. I saw some quilts at quilt con that had. They were like storybook style. They had blocks that had different memories using like applique or improv piecing. So I want to try to make a quilt with her memories, the things that she experienced in life, like a piano, soap making, baked goods, having four kids. I want to make a quilt that storybooks that her life and have that in my quilt stash. So I saw, saw, I thought that I was like because I went to film school and what I learned in film school was like storyboarding, and so I'm like if I can take that storyboarding foundation I learned in college and bring it into a quilt like this, I can have something really powerful for my mom.
Speaker 2:I can remember her life for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that would be lovely. Yeah, and then that would be lovely, yeah, and then can you enter it at the Festival of Quilts in Birmingham and then I can interview about it in Birmingham. That would be great.
Speaker 2:I would love that. I want to be there so bad. I want to be there so bad that would be great.
Speaker 1:And on a final note, then, I mean I always ask my guests if they have a motto for life, my guests if they have a motto for life. But I'd like to ask you, well, if you have one. But I would love to know if your mom ever used to say I mean, I know I love it when she said I love you more, but was there anything that she used to say to you as a motto?
Speaker 2:That was the resounding one Every time. It was I love you more. That was the message. She even had a bracelet made for me with the engravement of it saying I love you more. Oh, that's, it's there. I. That's the motto from her. Um gosh, I think. For mine it would have to be a quote from Maya Angelou, and I'm probably going to do a horrible job at verbatim, so I will go with the paraphrase version Okay, it's. You may not remember what someone says and you may not remember what they did, but you always remember how they made you feel that is. I live that quote every day. It's my favorite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so true. Well, today you have made me feel, I mean, I love you more now, josh I love you, rachel.
Speaker 2:I love you more. No, I love you more.
Speaker 1:No, I love you more I would say I want to move to the states. I can be your best friend, but I think maybe moving to the states is not a good idea, right?
Speaker 2:now. No, let me come to you, take me to Scotland, take me to Ireland. I want to see it all Do you know what?
Speaker 1:I've never been to Ireland, so let's go there together and experience it together.
Speaker 2:It sounds good, I'm going to go ahead and schedule this.
Speaker 1:Yes, schedule it, I'm going to get my diary in September. Yeah, no, honestly, seriously, it has been lovely to meet you and Ian was right when he said that you had you know that I should talk to you and that you had a lovely story. But he just said you're a great, all-round person. I mean it's amazing, isn't it, when you open yourself up to the world and you take your head out of your smartphone and you look at people I mean I've met, you know, from Ian coming on a class and I just there was something about him. I mean, obviously he was the only guy in that class, along with Leo, and so I was kind of drawn to them, because I love it when guys are in the class. But they had something about them. They were so smiley, they were so happy, they were so excited to be there. So then, obviously, I just asked Ian to come on the show. Then he talked about you and Leo and Becca. So I've interviewed all of you now and it's just been fantastic to sort of see those tentacles go out into the world.
Speaker 1:And that's what you have to do, I think in this world you have to keep being open. And, yeah, being open and being positive and knowing open and uh, yeah, been been open and been positive and and knowing someone said to me something the other day that the now I'm paraphrasing badly, but the the meaning behind the word despair is believing that tomorrow is going to be as bad as today, and actually there's always hope that tomorrow will not be like today. Tomorrow there can be change and I think that's so true. I think wherever you are in your grieving journey, you know, in a toxic relationship, wherever you are in this world, there is a chance for change. You can change things and you can change things within yourself and there can be brighter days and that's what we have to hang on to. And today, like I say, I've been starting to come out of my dark area and and you've given me a lovely, a lovely conversation today. That's brightened my day. So thank you very much josh, you're so welcome.
Speaker 2:You're so very welcome. Thank you, yeah. I have to say, though, change is gonna feel weird and sometimes not on the time schedule that you want it to be, but change is still positive. No matter the size and no matter how long it's going to take, it's still moving forward.
Speaker 1:And have that patience. You have to trust in the universe. I think it's divine timing. As you say, sometimes you're not ready to get the things that you want because you'll mess up the opportunities, so you have to kind of. You know, it's like John Candy said, like a twig on the shoulders of a mighty stream. You just have to flow through life. But, as you say, I think you're absolutely right. I think sometimes change comes and we're not ready for it or we don't want it, because it's much easier to stay in our comfort zones and sometimes you have to step outside, like your mom did step outside that comfort zone to to bring better times, and that that can be the result. But yeah, it can be scary.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, yeah, very good well, thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. And what I'm going to say now at the end of this podcast is, if you're okay with this, I would love to put some of the pictures of your mum on our YouTube version. So if anybody has listened to this podcast right now and they're thinking, oh, I'd love to see her head over to YouTube, and in the early stages of the interview, I've put some pictures up there as we're talking about her, so we can see what she actually looks like.
Speaker 2:And I know that just the two, I know just the two pictures I want to give you. Yeah, perfect, that's so sweet, thank you.
Speaker 1:I want to see her.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, thank you, my love thank you, rachel, have a lovely day you too.
Speaker 1:See you in Ireland. Yeah, see you there. Helps me to spread the word and, you never know, they might get a life lesson out of it or, at the very least, just have a lovely 40 minutes of relaxing time for themselves. The second thing to say is that, if you have enjoyed this, it would really help me if you would give me a little quick like or a comment, especially if you're listening on one of the podcast platforms. It just means that when anybody lands on the page, they can see that people have reviewed it, they've liked it, enjoyed it and got something out of it. So if you wouldn't mind leaving me a review, that would be amazing. And the final thing to say is that if you are a business and you're thinking, how do I get my message out there? Well, you could do it on this podcast. All you have to do is reach out to me, rachel at breakingtheblockscom. The details are below in the box. So much to everybody for listening and enjoying and saying the lovely things that you're saying.
