Breaking the Blocks
Hi!
Thanks for stopping by! Life is tough, and I think this podcast might offer you some relief. My aim? To inspire you to overcome some of your own blocks through the inspirational, honest, and at times, downright raw conversations with some wonderful guests, not huge celebrities, regular people like you and I. Let’s see how they have overcome the difficulties in their lives and offer you some advice and more importantly hope.
www.breakingtheblocks.com
Instagram @breakingtheblocks
Facebook @breakingtheblocks
YouTube @BreakingTheBlockspodcast
www.craftymonkies.com
www.rachelpierman.com
Breaking the Blocks
Stitching Together Cultural Identities When You Don't Belong Anywhere
Davey Powell shares his journey as a queer traveller, navigating the complexities of growing up in fairgrounds while knowing he was gay from a young age. Through therapy, sobriety, and quilting, he's found a way to unite his traveller heritage with his queer identity to become the authentic person he was always meant to be.
• Growing up between two worlds - never "traveller enough" for the traveller community and too "traveller" for the outside world
• Experiencing violence and fear on the fairgrounds, forcing him to develop a tough exterior that conflicted with his sensitive nature
• Hiding his gay identity from age 8-9 until university, when he finally came out
• Facing rejection from his parents, culminating in his father saying "I've hated you since you were 15"
• Battling severe depression and suicidal thoughts while trying to find his place in the world
• Finding healing through therapy, sobriety, and quilting, which started during a difficult period in Canada
• Creating vibrant quilts that incorporate fairground aesthetics to unite his traveller heritage with his queer identity
• Learning to speak to his inner child and angry teenager to heal from past trauma
• Proudly embracing both his showman/traveller background and his gay identity after years of feeling they couldn't coexist
• Using traditional fairground fonts and sign-painting techniques to reclaim positive aspects of his heritage
This is Breaking the Blocks and I'm your host, rachel Pearman.
Speaker 2:And we ate the curry and at the end of it my dad said I've hated you since you were 15, and we never want to see you again.
Speaker 1:What did your mum say when he said that? Did you look at her? What did she say?
Speaker 2:She was sat crying, she was stuck crying.
Speaker 1:My guest today is Davey Powell. His Instagram account is Daveymakes and he is an artist, a quilter, who was brought up on a fairground. Now, there was a big problem with this in that Davey never felt like he belonged or fitted in. Half of his family weren't travellers, half were. But Davey also knew at a very young age that he was gay and, as he says on his Instagram account, being a queer traveller was very difficult to navigate in those circumstances. This led to Davey suffering from severe depression later in his life and having to overcome some very difficult traumatic memories, including a very dysfunctional relationship with both of his parents.
Speaker 1:But I wanted to reach through the screen and give Davey the biggest hug. I'm so proud of him that he actually managed to get onto the podcast and you'll understand why when you listen but also how he is overcoming all of these challenges, determined not to give in, not to live up to the stereotype of being a traveller, but to bring that joy, that joy from fairgrounds that we've all experienced and that colour, back into the world and somehow enmesh it together with his identity as he is now. It's a really interesting episode as we delve into another human story and learn some lessons along the way. So I hope that you'll sit back and feel inspired by Davy and maybe, in turn, break some of your own blocks. Here we are, lovely Davy, davy Powell.
Speaker 1:So, you're joining me in the studio today, davy, because I think it was one of my Crafty Monkey ladies who saw you on Instagram. And then she said I would love to see Crafty Monkeys and Davy work together. And I don't know if she meant you know you as a quilter, because of course you are a quilter and an artist, or whether she meant for the podcast. But straight away I saw something you had written on your Instagram profile and I thought, hello, okay, there's a story and you know I love a good story Davey.
Speaker 1:You wrote on your Instagram page that, first of all, you are living back up in the Northeast now, aren't you, after being in Canada and London for 19 years. But what I was really interested in was you talking about the fact that you grew up in fairgrounds, wasn't it? That's where you said that you grew up in fairgrounds, but that you'd lost contact with a lot of your community. So this is what we're going to talk about today, because I feel like there are lots of blocks that you've had to overcome in your life. Just tell me in a very brief synopsis, then, just a little bit about where you are today, and then we will start to delve. So where are you right now?
Speaker 2:So right now I'm in my bedroom in the house I share with a very good friend back up in the northeast of England, but I have the Tyne River between where I am now and where I used to be. I'm a baker apprentice. It's my day job, new since I've moved back up north. Well, I studied fashion at uni and then I specialized in latex and then developed an allergy to latex yeah, obviously the universe did not want you going down this road.
Speaker 2:Okay, no no, that came to an end, um, because of the allergy. And then, at the same point, it was when I moved to Canada and then in Vancouver I specialized in sort of survival gear. I was making stuff for the military and the Marines. And then when I moved home I wasn't really sure what to do. I'd done some candle making for a little while and then now, when I've moved back up north, I'm a baker.
Speaker 1:That's quite an amazing story. So do you mind me asking how old you are? Davey, 38 last week, 38, okay, you know it's interesting. You're now going into the baking world as an apprentice, so I'm thinking that you've always been creative, Is that? Have you always been creative from being a very small child?
Speaker 2:I was probably always quite creative, though I think for a long time my creativity was sort of squashed and I feel like I probably hid a lot of my creativity up until probably around 16, after I'd done my GCSEs and I was deciding what to do with my life and I decided that I was going to try out college and I was going to do something creative there and then from then, that's when I started sort of exploring my creativity. But I would say, if I'm honest, it's only taken up until the last couple of years where I've actually believed that I was creative.
Speaker 1:So, even when you were studying fashion design, did you not think then that you were a creative person?
Speaker 2:No, I didn't.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it was. I think because of my upbringing and I think a lot of my time was spent adapting to certain scenarios or groups of people that I was with, that had really sort of lost any sort of sense of self and all of a sudden I was in a university studying fashion and I was like, why am I? Even here? I was surrounded by people who I felt were very creative. One of the first projects that we were given, a lecturer who I'd spent maybe two or three weeks with told me that what I was working on didn't represent who I was as a person, and I was like, well, how do you know who that is? I don't really know who that is. So then, yeah, I feel like for a long time I just didn't really believe that I was creative and just fell into making and creating but you always had a really strong desire to go into it because you went to university to study it so you obviously there was something within you that was like no, I really do want to pursue this.
Speaker 1:But maybe it was more about finding your creative flair and your creative self and your sense of self. As you say, you knew that maybe you had the talent and that it was within you, but you just didn't really know what it was all about.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, definitely so. At college it was the first time I really had a sort of uh lecturer or a teacher who believed in me, so that was sort of like a really positive experience. When I was 16 and then I feel like, as I got progressed into university and I didn't have that lecture around me, as soon as other people would question me, I was like freaking out, like why am I here? This isn't correct, this is the wrong thing.
Speaker 1:Did you finish your university education I?
Speaker 1:did, yeah, okay that's good, that's good, but you stuck with it. Your fears didn't overcome you too much then. Okay, so let's talk about your childhood then, leading up to that, because obviously you've said there you really didn't know who you were at this point. So this takes us back to the beginning then that something has happened in the beginning. I mean, I know a lot of us don't know who we are by the time we sort of hit universities, but at the time maybe we do think we know who we are, but you definitely felt like I don't know who I am. So what was your childhood like, growing up then? Because I am intrigued by you saying you know that you grew up around fairgrounds. So, yeah, what was your family set up? What was your life like?
Speaker 2:I grew up in a fairground in the northeast on a traveler site which was attached to a full-time fairground and it was. There was maybe six or seven families, if I think, who was living in the same site as mine, and my dad comes from a long line of travelers. My mom married into the fairgrounds, which at that time was very, very rare, because traveler people they're very sort of they marry within the community and so to have someone from the outside come in wasn't the norm. So yeah, so I grew up in a trailer on the fairground. I had people coming and going. Other families would come and go as the season changed, but, um, I would stay there because I had my fairground side and my non-fairground side, my non-traveller side, so I was sort of flipping between the two constantly.
Speaker 2:I was kind of like an outsider in an already outsider's world. I was never traveller enough for the travellers and too traveller for the non-travellers, so it was always a very strange place to be in. My mum wasn't accepted for a long time by the Traveller community. Me, as her child, was also not fully accepted. My accent was regional, whereas a lot of them move around, so they've got their own unique accent, so I was always too Geordie or too Northern to sound like a Traveller. I also didn't dress, or never wanted to dress, the way I should have dressed. It sounds strange to say, but like there was kind of a uniform and it was like you've got to. If you're a boy, you've got to wear jeans, anything that looked non-traveler, like tracksuit bottoms or anything outside of jeans and a shirt basically Any self-expression was kind of not allowed. So yeah, it was a strange time.
Speaker 2:I love the Traveller side and growing up on the fairground is incredible. You know being a kid and you can run around and go on as many rides as you want and you know everyone and everyone's looking out for you. But then on the other side, the non-traveller side, was kind of more relaxed. It was where I could sort of explore my creativity. It was where I would spend time with my cousins on that side and I felt like I could be a little more free. It didn't matter what I sounded like, it didn't matter what I was dressing like and I could sort of like explore who I was a little bit more.
Speaker 2:My mom's mom, my grandma she was actually my favorite person in the whole world, a gay child and their grandma is just like a match made in heaven. She would sew. When I was younger I would spend a lot of time there, more and more time as I got older. I actually became a teenager that would sleep at my grandma's sort of three or four times a week. I was desperate to move in there.
Speaker 2:She had a sewing machine and she would chug away on it. But that would be something that I would kind of love to watch. And then, when no one was looking, I would kind of sneak out a sewing machine. Or if I was home when no one was there there, I would sort of get the sewing machine out and have a little play around. And she was probably my inspiration into starting sewing. And then when I was at uni, she actually she passed away. She had motor neurons disease and so was shutting down quite quickly. I asked her if I could drop out of uni to be a full-time carer, but she didn't allow it because she wanted me to finish, which I'm pleased I did now. But I would have sort of liked that time with her instead of living away. But yeah, I'm very grateful for the time we had together and all the things she's inspired me with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it always comes from somewhere, doesn't it? There's always somebody in our family. I think when you're a creative person, it's just someone who has been there for you. Did you tell your grandma that you were gay?
Speaker 2:No, I didn't have time to, and actually that's something which was used against me. When I came out to my mom, she said she said something along the lines of she asked if my grandma knew, because I think she knew we were very close and I think she probably assumed I would have told her first. Um, but when she asked and I said no, my mom's reaction was I'm glad, because she would have been upset with you, which I know deep down was not the case. And I've had conversations with my granddad, who's still alive, and he said that he was always very proud and she wouldn't have cared and she always knew I was different and all these things that made you feel amazing.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so nice that you're still able to have that conversation with your granddad. I was going to say I'm sure that she would have been, she would have been, she would have been so proud of you. I think so. So your mom would take you outside the travel experience to a regular house with your cousins who were living regular lives, et cetera, et cetera. So that's what you mean when you say you were able to have non-traveler experience. What is it like as a traveler going into the outside world?
Speaker 2:The showman world. For me, and like through my experience, it's all the sort of designer brands who can present as having the most money. Who's got the nicest, the cleanest trailer, the biggest trailer, who's got the most expensive ride, the most expensive cars. So like money focus, which didn't really work for me very well because I also grew quite poor.
Speaker 1:So that is a dichotomy for me. I don't. I don't know how to say it, because I want to say I feel like there's a rebellious thing there in terms of rebelling against society's norms, but I do understand that it's also belonging to part of a community. It's your family that you travel with and you stay within that community. With sections of society like that that I wonder if that's to do with a fear of regular society. It's interesting that there's a kind of rebellious thing against society but they then want to have the biggest and the best and the brand names.
Speaker 2:It's a real dichotomy for me there but I think what you just said, actually with the fear thing, that rings quite true. Growing up there was a lot of violence on the fairgrounds. So like you would pull into a town, the town people might not necessarily like that you're there and there would often be quite a lot of violence towards us. And especially growing up where I was a lot of my childhood I feel like I felt scared because we would be attacked quite often by the rest of the town. Now I believe, where the traveler site that I grew up has been fenced off so actually outsiders can't get in, but when I was growing up that was that that fence didn't exist so any people would often come in cause huge, huge fights and from a very young age I was just exposed to like a lot of violence because of that and felt very afraid.
Speaker 1:So, as a child, did you feel a sense of shame for being a traveller? Did you ever feel that? Because, as a child, if you didn't understand things, you would maybe think, well, why are these people attacking us? Did you feel like, well, we must be the bad people here. Or were you told, no, we're the good guys, it's the outside that is the bad. So how did that work?
Speaker 2:the outside, that is the bad. So how did that work? I think I was told um that the outside was bad. We were the good guys and it was definitely like felt like there was a huge divide, and I think that's why my mom coming in to the fairground was such a huge, huge thing, because it was like, well, why are we letting this person in to our world?
Speaker 1:I think it's very difficult for you to have grown up in that world when, as you say, just by being from your mother, your mother's child, you know you weren't accepted, which is very difficult, very difficult, because as an innocent child you're like well, I don't understand. What have I wrong? So that would affect you on a on a big basis, which we'll come to later. So did you go to school? Is there schooling within a traveler community? Did you have your own schooling within, or was school not a factor?
Speaker 2:so I went to a regular school when I was grown up. We didn't actually move from our fairgrounds so I could attend school all year round. I think my sister, who's four years older than me, was the first person in my family to finish school on the Traveller side.
Speaker 1:And is that because it's not encouraged to finish school? Or is it encouraged to get a basic level of education and then you go into the traveler world and you know, you work on the fairground or you do whatever. Or is it just that maybe, as you grow older, you feel like you're losing your identity by continuing with school, so you leave and you want to stay in your community. What, why is that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think for a lot of people their plan is planned for them. They grow up as a kid, you learn how to build up machines, build up rides, you learn how to do all of the stuff that you're going to do with an adult, and then eventually your parents stuff gets past their rides or their arcades or their hookah duck, gets passed on to you. So you just then you travel to the same town on the same weekend every year. So it's kind of laid out for you in a way, whereas because I didn't have any rides, my future wasn't as laid out as everyone else's. So I had that option to carry on in education or not and be part of the travel world, and I chose to go down the education route.
Speaker 1:Was your mum and dad. Were they encouraging of your education? Did they say to you should keep going as long as you can. Or were they kind of going you can do whatever. Or were they saying, no, we want you to stay in the community, don't finish your education. What was their feeling about that?
Speaker 2:They definitely wanted me to finish school. I don't feel like they necessarily had any ideas for what they wanted me to do or what I wanted to do. Education didn't really seem that important.
Speaker 1:Is your sister still part of the Traveller world, or has she gone on to do something else as well?
Speaker 2:No, she's gone on, she's actually a teacher.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Okay, so as a child you'd grown up with this, well, I wouldn't say just the threat of violence. I mean, there was a lot of violence around you. May I ask, was there actually any physical violence for you as a child?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was a lot. I remember being in some Simpsons pyjamas as a kid and out in the middle of the night fighting to protect my home, and I was probably around 12, 13,. But everyone would be out my sister, my mum, all my cousins, all the other families would be out and it would be like a humongous well, I always described them as like a riot. It was, yeah, it was very intense.
Speaker 1:So how did you feel Davy as that, as that child, because you are a child at 12 or 13, you know how did you feel as a child in that situation, Because you know a lot of kids. Obviously they stay in that situation and maybe that becomes their norm I was talking to one of my guests recently.
Speaker 1:She had been very badly abused as a child and I said how did you feel about it as a child? She said I thought it was normal. I thought this is what happened. It was only when she started talking about it as an adult. Now you obviously you knew there was a difference between travellers and non-travellers, but how did you feel as a child? Did you feel really messed up by this? Were you angry as a child? Did you have this intense rage or anxiety? What did you feel as that child?
Speaker 2:I felt probably a lot of anger. I'd probably describe myself as an angry child. To me, the outside of the fairgrounds sort of my family outside of the fairgrounds I felt different. I feel like I could be soft and empathetic in myself. Inside the fairgrounds, I felt like I had to be hard. I had to be hard, I had to be tough, I had to I don't know be manly. I guess was what I felt as a kid. I had to prove myself as a man by being aggressive, because I felt like that's what I was shown men were. So when I was, when I was in that world, I feel like the anger was there. And when I was outside of the, I feel like the anger was there. And when I was outside of the world, I was kind of more gentle and safer.
Speaker 1:I totally get that and no wonder, when you went further through your education, that you didn't know who you were. Because how could you have this split world, this split life? What were teachers like towards you at school? I know you said that you hadn't had people who particularly were encouraging like towards you at school. I know you said that you hadn't had people who particularly were encouraging, but did you feel a prejudice against you from teachers in the school?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I feel like I just don't think they really necessarily cared if I was there or not. I think because so many of my relatives were either part-time there or sometimes not there, or others just had fully just disappeared. There was never any like no checks to see where any of us were. I know my sister. She had a very. She had a very difficult school situation to do with being a traveler. I don't think the schooling system necessarily cares for us that much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's a shame because you're setting up children to fail then, aren't you? Because it's this lack of encouragement, this lack of care, this lack of interest because of where you've come from. But you are still that child inside, particularly you, because you had a half relatively normal experience within society's norms. And look at where you are now. You know you are this creative person who's fighting for his life and to be the best person that you can, and so it's a shame that you weren't given that as a child. Something else I want to ask you about within your childhood as well. So you had this kind of split personality, you had this split life. Now, the other thing, of course, now davy, is that you identify on your page as, as you say, queer showman, so being gay. So when did these feelings start coming for you as well? Because, I would imagine, is that a very difficult thing to be in the traveler community, or is being gay accepted by the traveler community?
Speaker 2:it is definitely not accepted although I don't know now because I've been out of it for 19 years and so I don't really know my personal experiences I'm not accepted. I was not accepted and yeah, I feel like I. I realized I was gay fairly early, around sort of eight or nine, ten maybe, and from that point on I feel like I had to play a character. That character again was an aggressive male probably. It felt like if it comes out that I'm gay, at least I'll still be seen as a man. I know that's that sounds like ridiculous, but to me a man was aggressive and feared and all these things. So I was like at least if I'm gay I can be a big scary gay yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Were you aware of anybody else in that community who was also hiding their sexuality?
Speaker 2:no, not really, and actually to this day I don't necessarily know if I've met a gay traveller. For me, I feel like as a kid I thought I was the first ever one and I thought I was the only one, and I believe that it was my purpose in life to be openly gay and the traveller, and then hopefully gay people younger than me, would be able to follow. So it was a lot of pressure to put on myself as a child.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but how amazing to have that foresight for yourself. How amazing to have that in your mind. Most of us only start thinking that later in life. But well, maybe this is my purpose, but you were thinking that as a much younger person, okay, so when did you actually leave your community? When did you step away from it?
Speaker 2:well, I moved to Nottingham for university when I was 19. That was when I also came out to the people who I was surrounded with, the friends that I made in Nottingham. So that's when I was 19. That was when I also came out to the people who I was surrounded with, the friends that I made in Nottingham. So that's when I started living like my openly gay life. So then coming home became less frequent because when I come home it was like everything had to be removed. I had to remove my piercings, I had to hide my tattoos, these things were frowned upon. I wouldn't have dyed hair, my dress sense would sort of dull and I'd just be at home. And I remember having these feelings of. It was before I even realized what anxiety was, but I was just like every time at home I was like this is the last time I'm gonna have a heart attack. This is it's bringing on. It was so stressful.
Speaker 1:So going home became less frequent and then eventually kind of stopped and you didn't tell your parents that you were gay.
Speaker 2:I come out to my mum when I was 21. I'd met someone and her reaction was not great. She vomited and then didn't speak to me for weeks.
Speaker 1:And it came as a complete surprise to her. You don't think that she had any inkling at all.
Speaker 2:It came as a complete surprise. Apparently I guess I played it straight far too well. Yeah, my survival techniques were too good to get through it all. She didn't receive it very well, which was a surprise to me, because we'd grown up, we were very close and I felt like if anyone understands it would be her, because she'd also married into or was dating someone from a community that she had to fight for. So I thought at least she would understand, but for me I feel like by that point she'd probably been contaminated a little bit too much by my dad's beliefs or the fairgrounds beliefs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that must have been so disappointing for you, Davey. It must have been quite heartbreaking because, as you say, growing up close to her, she'd been through, in a way, an experience like you were asking her to understand now and she was not understanding of it. That must have been very difficult for you.
Speaker 1:This is a question for you whether her vomiting and that extreme reaction was that about you being gay? Or was that about you being gay in a way? Oh no, we're in the traveler community. This cannot happen, you know or was it just? Oh, I've got a son who's gay and I can't cope with it it's funny.
Speaker 2:I've never thought about that way. I always just assumed she was so repulsed by me that the vomiting happened. But now, when I reflect on the conversation, what followed me, saying that I was gay, was a long list of the men on the fairground and what's such and such going to think. What's this person going to think? What's this? What's your dad going to think? What are they going to think of your dad? So I think actually, yeah, maybe the stress of the full situation was was what was getting to her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe. And what about your dad? Did you tell your dad, or?
Speaker 2:did you let your mom tell your dad, I let my mom tell my dad, I think me and him. But I really really had a sort of rocky relationship from a from a very young age they were still together they are still together.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, he was just never that kind to me. Well, from being a teenager, I was never good enough. I was never the person who he wanted to be. A lot of traveler boys kind of become carbon copies of their dad. They're all sort of named after their dad.
Speaker 2:So for the first 19 years of my life I was Little David and I wasn't allowed to have a nickname. I wasn't allowed to be called Davey. I wasn't allowed to. I was always referred to as Little David and to me that was just like. I was like, but I'm David, and to me that was just like but I'm not little you, I'm me, and I needed to be that.
Speaker 2:I mean, I wasn't allowed to go to family events because of the way I was dressed, because it wasn't the way he wanted me to look. Wherever there was a travelling fairground, we would rent spaces and we'd call them dancers and that's where you would go to hang out in an only traveller space. There was a traveling fairground, we would rent spaces and there would be like we'd call them dances and that's where you would go to hang out in an only traveler space and where you would meet your potential partners. And I had never, really ever, wanted to go, because I knew I was never going to meet anyone who was on my page, but I was always forced to, and then I was made to dress the way he wanted me to dress, and it was just all very stressful.
Speaker 2:So when I became a teenager I think that's when I started rebelling and a lot of people on the fairground feared my dad because he was one of the oldest ones there and he was probably one of the most aggressive. But I always was strong enough to stand up to him and I think he didn't like that because he I was. I feel like I was too powerful for him in a way. So, yeah, so I didn't tell him that I was gay. My mom did, but by that point our relationship was I'd see him when I'd go home, but I don't even think I've ever had his phone number. I don't think we've ever spoke outside of being face-to-face, and if we did it would end in a huge explosion. So it was easier just to not see him.
Speaker 1:Was your dad ever physically violent with you?
Speaker 2:On a couple of occasions, very rarely More of a sort of emotional abuser than physical abuser. Yeah, he was physical to people around outside of our family but inside the family he wasn't. On the odd occasion he was, but, um, it was mostly emotional abuse. He was emotionally abusive to my mom and me. My sister kind of got away with it a little bit more because, I don't know, maybe she preferred her, she listened a little bit more, I guess in the beginning.
Speaker 1:I wonder what happened to him as a child to get him to the place that he ended up being in. I wonder what happened to him.
Speaker 2:He's the eldest of two brothers and he lost his mum when he was 17 and his dad when he was 18. I mean the fairgrounds, I feel like it's. It's probably got better now, but historically was probably very violent and, yeah, very male dominated and yeah yeah, there's a lot of pent-up rage in there, isn't there?
Speaker 1:probably about losing his parents young, and anger and, as you say, the the learned behavior from all the people before him and witnessing violence and witnessing that kind of aggression. So you mentioned that. Obviously you told your mother she she couldn't cope with it and your father you haven't got that relationship. So you mentioned that you didn't go back home anymore. So are you in contact with your parents now at all, or did that relationship just eventually at some point come to a total end?
Speaker 2:It came to an end when I moved back from Canada, so this was about three and a half years ago. I was living there with my ex-partner my ex now and one of the reasons we moved back is because I was going through a depression and it just seemed safer to get me home, to around people, my friends again. I felt very lonely there. It was during COVID, so it was like it was hard to connect with anyone. It was all a bit strange.
Speaker 1:Why did you choose Canada?
Speaker 2:We were in the US, in Yosemite, and we picked up two hitchhikers. They kind of convinced us to quit our jobs and move somewhere. Then, when we got home from that trip, because of our age, canada was one of the only places which would allow us to get a visa. So that was it. And then, yeah, the trip was amazing. We drove across the country, kind of stopping off here and there for three to six months, and then ended in Vancouver where we decided that's where we'd settle and that's when, like COVID hit. But where we decided that's where we'd settle and that's when, like COVID hit. And that's when the sort of fun of the traveling had ended and life started becoming a bit more serious. It was like we need to settle down and get a proper job again, we need to find an apartment, is this where we're going to stay? And it all sort of became a little bit too much.
Speaker 1:Okay, we'll come to that in a second. Let's go back to your mom. So you came back, so you were in Canada for three years. Did you say, yeah, yeah, so you came back from Canada, and what?
Speaker 2:happened? Yeah, I came back from Canada very depressed. I thought maybe I should see my parents. Maybe that's what I need, Maybe we can reconnect and I can tell them what's been going on in the last 19 years of my life so had you not had contact with them in the 19 years?
Speaker 1:she didn't like the fact that you were gay. And then you said it took about eight weeks for her to kind of start coming to terms with it somehow. So I'm guessing then that you were able to start coming to terms with it somehow. So I'm guessing then that you were able to um, continue a relationship with her. But it was very strained and it was just by my phone, by phone contact by phone on time.
Speaker 2:I would come home and I would see them and then we'd speak on the phone maybe every four or five months. They really had nothing to do with any of my adult life. I don't think I've been through two bouts of depression where I've been suicidal they're unaware of I've been through. I've had two very important relationships where they've not met the person. They just know very little. I feel like if I ever asked them what I've done for a living, they would both have no idea. So when I came back from Canada I thought I would come up north. I was staying with a friend the friend that I'm actually living with now go over and see my parents. And I went and we went for a curry and we ate the curry and at the end of it my dad said I've hated you since you were 15 and we never want to see you again. So three and a half years ago was the last time I seen them. When they said that to me, yeah, what?
Speaker 1:oh, my heart breaks for you. What did your mum say when he said that? Did you look at her? What did she say?
Speaker 2:She was sat crying, but after that I just put some money on the table to pay for dinner and I walked out.
Speaker 1:You didn't question it, you just looked at him.
Speaker 2:I felt for so many years that this person hated me. You can tell when someone hates you by the way they look at you. The look that my dad would give me was just pure disgust, and it was disgust from a young age and I remember just every time he looked at me it was that it would be painful. I could see the hatred out like for years and years and years. So hearing it it was hard but it wasn't a shock no, but still very hard.
Speaker 1:And to see your mum, who obviously is conflicted, I mean the fact that she was crying. I mean, in a way, I hope that that gives you this is going to sound strange, but I hope that gives you some comfort that your mum was crying, because at least that shows Davy that she wasn't sitting there with her arms folded going yeah, that's right, I hate you too. She was obviously completely torn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I know it's a difficult position for her and, who knows, one day maybe we could reconnect. I think, I don't know. But yeah, I know it's not easy for her, but, um, it's not easy for you. No, she had a child she needed to protect. I don't know.
Speaker 1:And she still has a relationship with your sister.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but my sister's now in Qatar teaching, oh OK.
Speaker 1:Does your sister want anything to do with your mum and dad, even though they were kinder to her? How does she feel about it?
Speaker 2:She doesn't really say much on the topic. She kind of, when I've tried to have conversations with her, she kind of just sweeps it under the rug.
Speaker 1:She, she's kind of got my parents back in a way, feel like more than mine okay, I, so I can completely understand where your your depression, as you say, your two very serious, serious bouts of depression have come from, and I would imagine it's that. Is it a daily struggle for you, davey, in your life?
Speaker 2:Less. So now For the last two years I've had, like I've got an amazing therapist which I still see now and it's the best thing I've ever done and I love her. So a little shout out to Kelly, if possible go Kelly, go Kelly.
Speaker 1:yeah no, um, I was gonna ask you actually if you were seeing a therapist, and I'm so glad that you said yes.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad you said yes yeah, I know it's been one of the best things I've ever done. When I came back I I was probably like I was drinking a lot and it was kind of beginning to creep earlier in the day, and so now I'm sober and I decided to stop drinking and start therapy at the same time. So the two years I've been in therapy, I've been like not drinking, which has also been incredible.
Speaker 1:I just want to pick something up, davey, about your suicidal tendencies, and obviously you've talked about that. You've gone there and I've been there myself, and I really do mean I've been there myself many, many years ago. I don't think I wanted to die, I think I wanted the pain I was experiencing in that point, something that had just happened to me, stop. Is that how you feel when you've gone into your dark places?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. I think the pain can be so, so debilitating it can be. You just want it to end and I think ultimately, I knew deep down that I wanted to survive and I didn't know how I was going to do that or what I was going to do to get there. But I think, deep down, committing suicide or harming myself was not the answer to what I needed to do.
Speaker 1:How close did you get to it, David? Because I interviewed one of my lovely guests and he said that he was laying on a sofa and he really didn't think he was going to see the end of the day.
Speaker 1:It was in such a dark place. But he knew he didn't want to die. But he was in so much pain and he thought how do I stop myself from going to do what I'm about to do? And he said, and he just thought I have to lay on this sofa all day until it passes, and hopefully it will.
Speaker 2:And he did.
Speaker 1:He laid on that sofa and he did not get off it for several hours. How have you climbed out of that dark space?
Speaker 2:I mean in a similar way. There's been days, days, multiple days where I've not left the bed because I knew if I would, something bad would happen. And it does always pass, and it's important to know that it will always pass. But it doesn't sort of take away how painful it is in that moment.
Speaker 1:For me it was just very similar Don't move say that when you're suffering with depression and when you're suffering very dark moods, you should move, you should get up, you should go out, you should go for a walk and I think, if you, I think there are levels, so I think if you are feeling in a unhappy place, if you're feeling a bit stuck, if you are in a dark place, then, yes, move, go outside, go for a walk, ground yourself.
Speaker 1:But I think if you are at the point where you think I'm on the verge of harming myself here, maybe you do have to just stay in that spot to stop yourself from getting up to go and do whatever it is you've got to do. I would say call someone as well.
Speaker 1:I would say make yourself pick up that phone and call someone and tell them Don't just go, oh go, oh hey, how are you? Well, I'm all right, I mean we do that, don't we? How are you? I'm fine. How are you? I'm fine, even though I will be on the pieces, so I would suggest that you pick up the phone and call someone and go. I'm on the verge of doing something really bad here yeah, I definitely think so.
Speaker 2:there's a stage where getting out in nature and going through a walk, like you said, is super helpful, but I think, beyond that stage, where it's a desperate situation, going for a walk wasn't going to help me personally, going for a walk would have led to something probably just disastrous.
Speaker 1:um, yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to assess it, don't you? But you're on the right track with your therapy, so that's hopefully you won't get to such a dark space again, and if you do, you'll have the tools to climb out of it. And that's what therapy does, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:it gives you the tools to get outside, okay absolutely did you find in your adult relationships, davey from all of this trauma? Did you suppress your emotions and your affections and you were quite avoidant? Or were you the opposite end of the spectrum, where you were anxiously attached because of all the rejection that you suffered as a child? I'm just intrigued because in a lot of these situations I know there are many, many, many complex traumas out there and complex personality disorders, but I'm just wondering what your coping mechanisms were. Obviously I know you've said there about the alcohol, but how have you coped?
Speaker 2:I think within my relationships I was probably I feel like I was probably a child sort of sort of, and looking for a partner who would look after me and care for me and do all the things that I couldn't do codependent, yeah, but also I feel like I probably resented them for that, because I was like I can do this, but I also can't, so can you do it?
Speaker 1:so I feel like I was probably quite hard to be with yeah, because a lot of people who are codependent and have had the rejection and the abuse that you've had, then have that um, what's it called? You're overly independent. It's like then you, you want to push people away to you know, because that obviously when you get close to someone, then that kicks the fear in, because the fear of that person leaving and then. So then you push people away because then you're safe and then as soon as they go, you go. But I want you back and it's a very complex trauma case. But, as you say you have to.
Speaker 1:I really believe you have to have therapy for these things. You cannot deal with these issues yourself because you have to peel all those layers back of the onion, don't you? Absolutely. You cannot deal with these issues yourself because you have to peel all those layers back of the onion, don't you absolutely what? What do you think was your primary with your therapist? When I don't want to delve into your therapy, it's a personal thing but in terms of your learning and coming to terms now with things davy, what do you feel is the primary thing that you are learning about yourself? What do you think you've been living with? Is it anger, is it fear. I mean, is it just all of it? What? What are you learning about yourself?
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm having to kind of unlearn coping mechanisms which allowed me to survive as a child, which aren't relevant now as an adult. So things like isolating myself when things get tough is something I think I've done as a child and it's something that I would do as an adult, but really all I wanted to be was around people who loved me and around my community. That I have now. So, yeah, a lot of it's, I think, unlearning coping mechanisms and relearning new ones and just accepting myself and sort of.
Speaker 1:I'm hugging myself.
Speaker 2:I'm like this is something I would never have done. I'm just like you know, just yeah, just feel, just love yourself and be kind to yourself. And I'm learning that there's so many different parts of me that was in pain and that's okay and the pain will end, and just just be there for yourself.
Speaker 1:Really and learning to let people in and trust people, I would imagine because you must have had absolutely zero trust and faith in anyone growing up in that environment and, as you said, I didn't miss it when you said your mother yes, there are lots of things up against her, but she had a child that she couldn't have protected, because that's what parents should do. They should protect their children.
Speaker 2:And that was so difficult for you to come to terms with that you weren't protected no, no, I wasn't. And I understand now and I sort of can forgive her for that. I think there was a lot of the time when, growing up, I had to sort of look out for her. When my dad would be putting her down, it was always me that was picking up the pieces and I think sort of that's something that I sort of had to come to terms with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Do you know, I read something the other day, a quote, and it was. I can't I'm going to misquote it, but it was something about our healing journeys are not about becoming a new version of ourself or a different person. Our healing journeys are about uncovering who we always should have been, and I can feel that's the same with you, davey.
Speaker 1:I think that, for whatever reason, you were born into this world and you had this amazing fighting spirit and this wonderful little boy inside, luckily. Luckily, because you had a link to the outside world. You had enough of that to keep that alive, because I think that spark could have been easily burned out if you hadn't had that outer world experience. But, for whatever reason, it was in there and then the years of abuse and disrespect and harshness covered all that up and that's when the rage and the coping mechanisms took over. How do you work with your other coping mechanisms in terms of if you feel the fear rising in you? If you've got that feeling of you're with someone, and then the fear starts rising of what if this person rejects me? How do you cope with that feeling of you're with someone and then the fear starts rising of what if this person rejects me? How do you cope with that then? What's your therapist teaching you?
Speaker 2:well, I think I'll go into sort of what I was experiencing before this chat. I was very scared. I felt like I was going to ruin everything. The podcast was going to be rubbish, I would come across stupid, I wouldn't know what I was talking about, and these are all feelings I would have as a younger person. I just spent some time looking in the mirror telling myself that I love myself. I've done some breathing exercises, just took the time to sort of make sure that every part of me felt safe. I spoke to my inner child and told them that I love them and told them that I'm here for them and I'm here to protect them and there's nothing that's going to harm them. I spoke to my angry teenager and I was like I've got your back. You know we've been through a lot, you back, you know we've been through a lot. And so, yeah, I just go internal and just make sure everyone's okay.
Speaker 1:I love that. I absolutely love it and I totally get you, because I visualize the little seven-year-old Rachel and I and I can see myself in my big glasses carrying a dog that I called Christy. It was a fake dog. I remember having this dog all the time with me and I didn't have any brothers or sisters and I talked to that little seven-year-old Rachel and there are times when I know that I'm letting myself down or I start slipping back into the emotions that go with the bad behaviors and I now it's really weird because little Rachel pops up and I can see her and I go, she's kind of saying don't let.
Speaker 1:Don't let me down, but not in a judgmental way. She's going, you know, and I want to protect her. So that's what I do. I say, okay, I'm not going to let you down, I'm not going to let us down, we're going to be okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know it's amazing. It's amazing what you can do whereby just just protecting these, these parts of you.
Speaker 1:it's so important and it sounds weird for anybody who hasn't done it, but I, I, I think it's such a brilliant exercise if you are listening and you have this trauma, you have these deep feelings of anger or resentment, whatever it is. Talk to that inner person.
Speaker 2:Get a picture of yourself. If you can find a picture of yourself, because that picture?
Speaker 1:I've seen that picture of me black and white picture on a little doorstep if you can get a picture of yourself, stick it on your fridge or whatever, and if ever you feel like, you say, davey, if you're an alcoholic, you know, talk to that little person and you know.
Speaker 1:Obviously you need therapy, you need counseling, but talk to that inner child and protect that inner child. Be the parent you didn't have. Don't slip into those behaviors. It's a fantastic thing. I'm so pleased that you're you're doing that. So are you? Are you? Are you feeling in a much better place now than davy? Are you really coming to terms with things.
Speaker 2:I know you said you had a momentary panic and and don't worry, everybody has the same um but are you, are you feeling in in?
Speaker 1:life when you're not going on the podcast much better about your life, or are there still very dark times for you?
Speaker 2:I'm feeling a lot better I am. There's still some dark times. I feel like I'm probably the truest version of myself that I've been in my adult life. I feel like the two parts of me that I've been fighting for so long my queerness and my traveler side are now connected. I don't have to choose to be one or the other. I can be both. I think, growing up, I felt like one side of me had to die for the other one to survive in a way, and it was, it was always going to be the traveler side, because I was never going to not be me and be gay and be who I am. So so, yeah, I feel like they're both living in harmony in harmony as as I speak, but there's definitely some darkness yeah, yeah, but you're on that, you're definitely on the road.
Speaker 1:You're on the road because, as you say, you're in therapy and you're, you're so self-aware and I think that is the first stage of recovery, isn't it? It's just, it's a. It's that putting your hand up in the aa meeting and saying, hello, I'm rachel and I'm an alcoholic, I'm not by way. I haven't been an alcoholic, Not that there's any shame to it. I'm just saying that's not my problem in case people think, oh Rachel, I didn't know about that, you know.
Speaker 1:I'm many other things, but luckily I have never succumbed to the alcohol. I saw the effect it had on both of my parents as a young person because, you know, I I did. I saw the effect. Uh, they weren't alcoholics, but they definitely used alcohol to numb their pain that they'd gone through after the divorce and I saw it and didn't like it. So, uh, luckily I haven't gone down that route.
Speaker 1:It's a very difficult route to go through, but it is that first stage of putting your hand up going yes, I am a drug addict, I am an alcoholic, I am, uh, an, an abusive person, I am a, you know, a physically violent, whatever it is. It's that self-awareness, isn't it? And it's also admitting it to yourself and acknowledging that shame that you feel within yourself as well, because I think if you're not ashamed of any of that, you'll never. You'll just keep doing it, just keep doing it. You'll just keep doing it, just keep doing it. I think there has to be shame with those addictions, which is what leads you to saying I have a problem and I need to sort this out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, definitely. Something had to give for me. It was getting to a point where I was like, if I don't stop this, it's going to get worse, and I can't allow it to get worse because that's not who I want to be.
Speaker 1:And it's going to ruin your life, davey, exactly life you'll end up either jumping off a bridge yourself or you will just keep hurting lots of people in your life who are trying to help you, and it's just things that get deteriorate yeah, definitely, definitely so let's, let's talk about the quilting then, because people automatically so whenever I say that I'm, I work with quilters.
Speaker 1:It's changing now, but certainly five years ago people said, oh, is that a lot of sorts of grandmas then and do little blocks on their knees, you know which? Obviously traditional quilting still out there and still lots of older people doing it, and that's wonderful. Everybody, all communities, sexes, races, religions, people that are coming into this, uh, art form. So where did it start for you, the quilting? How did you get into it?
Speaker 2:so it happened in canada. Basically I I was signed off work with depression, so I had a lot of time, didn't really know what to do, and then I was like I'm just going to try and make a quilt. I had a brief Google about it and learned about the half square triangle and I was like, right, I just need something repetitive that I can just sit and do and just not really think much about it. So that's when it happened. And then since then, then it's progressed. Now it's sort of the way I present myself through my artwork. It's allowed me to sort of reconnect with my traveller side and it's allowed yeah, it's, it's allowed my queerness and my traveller side to to live together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and is that through the sort of flamboyance of your work? Is that through the, it's allowed my queerness and my travel side to live together? Yeah, and is that through the sort of flamboyance of your work? Is that?
Speaker 2:through the bold colours that you're using. Yeah, I feel like for me, colour is very important. I've always well, when I was younger, I would always dress in very bright colours. I would always sort of in my 20s, I'd always have my hair a bright color. The fairground is bright, you know. I want my quilts to have that same sensory overload as the fairground does, and so I've used traditional fairground fonts as the text for the text that I use, which I'm also currently learning how to do traditional sign painting, because it's something I feel like another step into the, the traveler world, the showman world, where I can sort of express myself and use something of my heritage to express myself.
Speaker 1:I love that, davey. I mean you know your dad, your mom and dad are missing out on such a lot. You know they're missing out on such a lot with you. Because how fantastic that you know travelers have got a very bad reputation. A very bad reputation, as you say. You know, put towns, people that sounds very 1800s but put those towns folks together with those travelers. It's like there's a musical that I was in a drama school. It was something about oh, we got trouble, oh, we got big, big, big, big trouble. And it's like I know people come to town, whatever, but you know they, they have got a very bad reputation and what you're doing is you're using the positive elements from that traveler community, as you say. I mean, we all, you know we all love a fairground. You know we don't like the travelers, do we?
Speaker 1:We don't like the travelers but we love the fairgrounds, we love the flashing lights and the waltzes and you know I remember as a teenager, you know, going to those fairgrounds and being spun around by those boys on the waltzes and you know we all, we all like the bright lights of the fairground and you know the hooker duck and all this stuff. But yet we're so negative about the people who are doing that for us. And I'm sure there were people who write things and you know who would listen to this and go, ah, but da-da-da, we're not discussing that. What I'm saying is a bit of a dichotomy going on there. But you're bringing out, you're showing to the world that color, that vibrancy, that fun, that joy that we all get from a fairground and that's a big positive message. But also, as well, as you say, davey, you are a gay person who was a traveler, who is from a traveler background, will always have the traveler within them and that's something not accepted in that world and you're combining this world together and I think that's absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 2:I really do yeah, I mean, ultimately, I'm so proud of both of them. I'm so proud to be a showman, traveler, traveler. I'm so proud of being gay. So for me it's just like and for a long time I would not have been able to say that. So to be able to say that and to be able to present my work and be like this is it, this is me. Have a look, it's bright, it's in your face, it's going to make you smile, possibly make you sick, I don't know. But yeah, it's me and that's it, and it's my history and it's allowing me to sort of put stuff out there and who knows what the future will be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you just have to keep quilting, just keep quilting and keep quilting, keep going. I have a question for you, the davy, though, because you said I'm really proud of my well now, what did you just say? Oh, whatever, you just said. A question popped into my head, because you said I'm proud of this, I'm proud of that, but are you proud of you now, davey? Are you proud of yourself? Not what you do, not what you make, not how you bring things together. Are you proud of you?
Speaker 2:right, I'm uh, I would say yes, if I'm honest. I did moments where I'm probably not, but ultimately I am, I'm strong and I'm resilient and I am proud and I've fought for this and I've been to the pits, I've been to the trenches and I've fought through it and I've got to where I am. So, yeah, I am, I'm really proud you should be.
Speaker 1:You absolutely should be david. I think you are an awesome human being. As I say, I looked at you on, you know, instagram I. I just looked at you and thought, okay, yeah, I didn't think twice. I was like I have to get you on this podcast because I knew there was a story there. But I have to say your story is even more incredible, really, with everything you've been through and, as you say, where you've got to right now, you are indeed a fighter. Well, literally not anymore, thank goodness.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I know you were.
Speaker 1:But you know you're an emotional fighter and that's brilliant to see. I'm proud of you. I barely know you, but I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you for sitting here on this podcast, because she could have easily said no, and lots of people don't know Davy. Lots of people do say no that I write to, and you didn't. You went yeah, I'd love to do that, and that's amazing when we hear your story and how you just had to torch yourself in the mirror. So, on a final note, then Dav David is there. I always ask this of my interviewees and I think more so with you. It's important. Is there a motto that you have in your life to keep you going? Because obviously you've had to keep going and you've had many, many dark days. You still have dark days ahead, as you've said. So is there something that you say to yourself? Uh, it could be. You know it doesn't have to be motto in terms of it rhymes and it's a phrase, but is there anything?
Speaker 2:just in those dark moments, you say I think um, you kind of just got to look at my quilts to answer that. I think all the, all the sayings from the fairgrounds that I use don't be shy, hold on tight, try your luck they're all. They all have different meanings now they're all things, they're all messages that I use to get through my hardships. And I just kept on picturing my don't be shy quilt today, this morning, just just when I was like, because that's one of my things that I've had to struggle with I've struggled with is shyness, and so, yeah, everything on my quilt is my motto.
Speaker 1:Well, I encourage everybody to go and look at your mottos and your quilts. It's just Daveymakes, isn't it? That's your Instagram handle.
Speaker 1:It is yes dot makes, isn't it? That's your Instagram handle? It is yes, and of course, I'll put all the details in the description. If people are watching this on YouTube, it'll be there underneath, or if they're listening to the podcast, it'll be in the transcript. And, as I say, if you don't want to read any of that, it's Davie D-A-V-E-Y dot makes. So make sure you go and have a look at Davie's wonderful pieces.
Speaker 1:And I have to say, davey, if I knew Hugh Jackman, um, or had a Hollywood contact or five million quid, I would now play us out with the this is me from the greatest show, because you are the greatest showman and this is you and what a fabulous human being you are. And please, please, please, david, on those dark days that I know you will go through, because we all go through them um, on those dark days, please just remember what I'm saying to you right now. I know that I don't know you and you know, but that's the point. I don't know you, but in this last hour that we've spoken, I can tell you are a terrific human being, because you have told me lots of things and been honest with me and experiences you've been through and you are fantastic. So, please, please, remember that and read your motto if you have a dark day, and just keep going. Just keep going.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 1:um, yeah, I feel like it took me a moment to warm up, but I feel like this has been great, and so thank you so much for reaching out yeah, you are very welcome and I would love to have you back on in, say, a year's time, davie, and let's see where your journey has taken you, because I tell you what you are going somewhere you are. You were put on this planet to do something you really were. So I am intrigued as to where your journey takes you and, you know, maybe one day I'll come and see you up north and we'll go for a waltzer ride, because you know how to spin those waltzers. Thank you so much, davey. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:Just before you go, lovely listener, can I ask you. Thank you enjoyed this. It would really help me if you would give me a little quick like or a comment, especially if you're listening on one of the podcast platforms. It just means that when anybody lands on the page, they can see that people have reviewed it, they've liked it, enjoyed it and got something out of it. So if you wouldn't mind leaving me a review, that would be amazing. And the final thing to say is that if you are a business and you're thinking how do I get my message out there, well, you could do it on this podcast. All you have to do is reach out to me, rachel at breakingtheblockscom. The details are below in the box. Thank you so much to everybody for listening and enjoying and saying the lovely things that you're saying.
