Breaking the Blocks
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Thanks for stopping by! Life is tough, and I think this podcast might offer you some relief. My aim? To inspire you to overcome some of your own blocks through the inspirational, honest, and at times, downright raw conversations with some wonderful guests, not huge celebrities, regular people like you and I. Let’s see how they have overcome the difficulties in their lives and offer you some advice and more importantly hope.
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Breaking the Blocks
Finding Your Voice as a Full-Time Carer Requires Immense Inner Strength
Resilience emerges as the central theme when textile artist Caz Holmes shares her journey as a full-time carer for her husband following his debilitating stroke. She offers profound insights into finding balance between caring for others and maintaining your own identity through creativity and connection.
• Caz balances her renowned artistic career with caring for her husband Derek after his stroke in 2021
• The stroke left Derek with left-side weakness, limited vision, and spatial awareness challenges
• Creativity serves as healing for both carer and patient, providing focus and purpose
• Maintaining your identity is crucial when transitioning from life partner to caregiver
• Small moments of respite are essential for carers – walks, garden time, coffee with friends
• Finding ways to collaborate despite limitations helps preserve dignity for both individuals
• Caz identifies her "triangle of needs": challenge, connection to creativity, and connection to others
• The UK has approximately 5 million unpaid carers providing essential support
• Human connection is being eroded in our increasingly technology-focused society
• Speaking up about what you need as a carer is vital for maintaining your wellbeing
• Caz's motto "to do different" encourages finding alternative approaches to life's challenges
Contact Caz through Instagram to see her work and connect with her community of makers @casholmestextiles
Welcome back to another episode of Breaking the Blocks. I'm your host, Rachel Pearman.
Speaker 2:Have we really absolutely learned anything, or is it we're just taking for granted what we're given, and we should be asking the right questions.
Speaker 1:My guest today is a lady called Kaz Holmes. She is an absolutely incredible artist. I think one of the key learnings from today's episode is resilience. How do we find that resilience? Where do we find that inner strength when something comes into our life that is completely unexpected and knocks us sideways? But also, how do we make sure that, as well as giving to the other person when you're a carer, you give back to yourself? Where do you find that voice to stand up and say well, actually, this is what I need as well. And what is it like being a carer? What is it like when your husband of 40 plus years has a debilitating stroke and suddenly the dynamic of your relationship changes?
Speaker 1:That's one of the themes we'll discuss in today's show, as well as creativity and learning how that can really help you to come to terms with the issues that I've just mentioned and also find peace within yourself. So sit back. I hope that you'll enjoy the episode today and maybe learn a thing or two to overcome a block that you may have in your life. Okay, so my lovely guest in the studio today is a lady called Kaz Holmes. You may have heard of her because she is a renowned, I think we're okay to say that renowned, worldwide known textile artist, the lovely Kaz, joins me. So hello Kaz, nice to have you here in my studio.
Speaker 2:Lovely to join you. I think I might prefer the word infamous.
Speaker 1:Infamous yes, the infamous artist. I must explain how I met you, kaz, because actually it was through your wonderful work, because I went to the Knit and Stitch show. I think it's been renamed now, hasn't it? They've made it a bit more trendy. So I went there and I walked into a booth with your absolutely beautiful work. And it was very funny because I said to the lady sat there I really love your work. Oh, it's not, I'm not Cass, I'm not her, I'm just sat in her booth for a while and I said please can you get her to contact me because I would love to work with Kaz. And I did. I found your work just so beautiful.
Speaker 2:It just took me to another place, which is the best thing you know to happen when you look at someone's art it's wonderful I think you're talking about the shipping forecast and, yes, it was either vicky or one of one of the many people who supported me, because I also am a have a dual role. I'm a carer as well and I had a team of supporters who would be there from 10 o'clock in the morning to answer questions. So that's something I've learned to accept in my new role that people want to work with me and under those terms, I look for positive, positive collaboration so that I can still do some of my work. But that constantly is challenging and changing, as you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, which is what we're going to talk about on the show today. Yes, but yes, they did a very good job because they did pass on your details and we did talk and we're actually doing a class together in a couple of weeks on the Crested Monkeys platform, which is wonderful. But then I said to you, kaz, how about coming on the podcast? Are there any sort of blocks that you've had to overcome in your life? And straight away you said well, I'm actually a full-time carer for my husband and this is something that I've not talked about on this show today, but I think it's a really, really important issue because I think there are so many carers.
Speaker 1:My mother actually went through a very difficult time in the last year. She's in her eighties and she had to care for her husband who was dying of terminal cancer and was at home in that time, and I saw how exhausting it was for her, both mentally and physically. And, yes, she did get some carers that came in and, you know, made sure that the patient, as they called him, had some water and some food and then they would leave. But it's such a huge job and I think that it's not talked about enough and I don't think the responsibility and the difficulties that come with it is really appreciated. So, cass, that's what we're going to talk about today. But where do I find you at the moment? Then just give a little bit of a background to people who may not have come across you. So obviously you're this wonderful artist. You actually have a studio at home and where are you based at the moment? In the country.
Speaker 2:I'm based in Maidstone and Kent. My background is I trained in fine art painting at the University of Creative Arts. Back then it was known as Maidstone College of Art. I worked throughout my life in education, care and support, so I provided workshops in many different settings, including secure units at the local hospital. I'm a trained youth worker. I work with mental health charities. That was a path I chose to go because I enjoyed working with people, but I like to work with people from different types of backgrounds and different levels of ability, as well as create my own work. So I've done that throughout my life. So you perhaps could say that some aspects of what's involved for me now, which is completely different when you're a carer. I had some empathy or understanding of what I've been preparing for it, but it doesn't make it any easier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting though, isn't it? I do find life absolutely fascinating, how we seem to end up where we should be, or there are links in our life. All the way through our life there are signposts, and sometimes we don't see these signposts as a kind of a place that we're going to end up later in our life, but you've ended up being a carer, and yet you chose always to have this aspect of your teaching within the kind of mental health industries, within the wellness area, as you've said. There's just people there that you've been working with, so where do you think all that came from in the beginning, then?
Speaker 2:well, I have romany heritage, so I think the idea of working differently in the community, um having different avenues to education as being perhaps subliminally always there. Um, dad, when I met with him from work, he was a painter and decorator. I'd often meet up with him on the stay at sixth form longer, and then meet up with him on the way home, and he would always be talking about looking at features of the buildings etc. So looking around me and drawing things in has always been part of my creative learning experience outside of the framework of formal education. And then, when I was on a degree course at Maidstone, I did some voluntary work at the hospital and found that I enjoyed that process and there's something about the value that you can give to both the person but also creativity as part of everyday practice, and I think that I came attuned to that very early on.
Speaker 2:I don't think I could have put it in the same words. I wasn't necessarily had the language or the knowledge. You know the signposts, as you say. At the time All I knew was I could see the benefit. One of my first projects was on an elderly care unit at the local hospital to give an activity, and it was. I wouldn't ever say it was easy. I was trialing things out, seeing what worked and what didn't work. So my education is not necessarily in this area. It's not necessarily followed any formal structure. It's learning from the people I work with and the teams that I'm involved with.
Speaker 1:What do you get out of it? When you're working with people, kaz, and you see their creativity blossoming within them and you see that kind of joy that we know creativity brings what, what do you?
Speaker 2:feel I had um, a student, louise I won't give you a second name who came to my classes for a number of years and she had physical health problems and some um and underneath that, often physical health and your mental well-being go together. So when we say people have a mental health problem, it it's a synergy between the two. It's hard to remain positive when you're in pain. But she said when she was in the class and I she had stuff to do at home. Being able to focus on something positive reduced her pain, physically, tangibly reduced it. There's tangible things. People have something else to focus on, so it draws that attention away from the brain. With Derek as well, for example, he finds it hard to do things spatially because he's lost a lot of his facial awareness and visual.
Speaker 2:I always seek an opportunity to learn, or it might be just it's inbuilt into me. What can I do to make best of this situation? So a lot of my work started to evolve about the communication we had with each other and what I was learning and things he said. And I'm beginning to work in the garden. I'm doing all the work in the garden. So he's the backstreet gardener because he has so much knowledge to give. So I'm valuing that and it's helping me to not just be a worker but to recognise that it's healing me to be able to work in the garden. So you know, working in the garden is creative, cooking is creative. So all of these things we do with our hands that engage us with the world outside is part of that creative process.
Speaker 2:And then I question why has it worked for me? What is it helped me? Because carers need healing as well. It's a huge, huge job but, importantly, how can it help both of us? Because we're both stroke survivors. He's a stroke survivor. You have to be tenacious to survive this and it it's not easy, but just try to do what you can. I mean I should be running around going worry, worry, worry, and I am probably churning up inside at the moment, but doing some familiar things helps to keep that calm in. That's what I've learned from myself. Engaging with something positive for me helps me to control all the other stuff that's going on.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk about Derek, because obviously you've mentioned him there. So this is your husband for me. Helps me to control all the other stuff that's going on. Well, let's talk about Derek, because obviously you've mentioned him there. So this is your husband, for who you are now the full-time carer. How long have you and Derek been together? I'm sensing that it's many, many, many many, many years. Wow Okay, 44 years.
Speaker 2:He's my life partner, so we're not stuck together by anything else other than we get on with each other most of the time.
Speaker 1:Yes, so you said he had a stroke. So this is what's caused the reason that you are now a carer. So when was Derek's stroke?
Speaker 2:Kaz 2021, september the 5th, the day virtually the day my book Embroidering the Everyday came out. I was due to do some follow up with that, some promotion and everything. Literally. You had a celebration and challenge in one hand. You know that feels. That's actually felt a constant in my life, but particularly in the last five years. You know the moments of challenge in teaching is a challenge, but it's a positive challenge. It's hard and rewarding. Caring is a primary challenge. I had to relearn a lot of things, but there's also celebration and it's it's like constantly balancing those scales.
Speaker 2:So ever since that day you know again, you say about signposting. There I have a celebration of that book coming out of a hard work, valuing the everyday things we have as things that I've learned that I needed to do, as everybody else did, during the pandemic, and that taught me a lot of things about how we see the world, even more you even more differently, but at the same time trying to cope with a rapidly changing situation on my doorstep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to talk about Deg in a second, but, as always with this podcast, we never know where it's going to go and it's just gone somewhere that I want to just ask you where does that positive attitude come from? Because you've said it's followed you through your life, this kind of celebratory and I was just about to say to you isn't that just life? So often we have something that comes in and we go yay, and then bang, we're sort of left field, something happens. But how have you developed this kind of positive attitude? Because I know you said you're churning up inside but you are still trying to remain positive. I know your creativity has helped you, but where do you think it's come from, cass? Has it always been innate from you? From when you were little, were you always a kind of glass half full person?
Speaker 2:my dad had, um, a nickname for me, mile a minute, cass. I mean, I'm, my birth name is Carol, but I've been called Cass for a long time and I was always, he said, out of all my children, I never worried about what you were doing or were up to, because you would always be looking and doing and you know you'd be out drawing in the garden or playing or look. You were just inquisitive all the time. You wanted to just find out and you always did that. You would talk to granddad walking along the riverside at Norwich and ask him about you, always engaged with people. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:I really don't know and I also fostered that and I really so enjoy valuing watching people grow but yet go through the challenge. I mean one of the things when I'm teaching I make it clear that I never use the words easy as a description of my workshops, because I don't find creativity easy. I find it incredibly challenging, but the rewards of actually achieving something and being pushed, and I think artists, if they want to be successful, have to be tenacious. I want students to find that inner creativity. So, whilst it's not easy, I want to try to make it accessible so that, yes, it is going to be difficult sometimes because if it wasn't, you're not going to achieve your, the creative dialogue you need to have with your work. You know you can go and learn to make something, but does it mean anything? So the making a meaning needs to come together. You know the looking at things a little bit differently, finding out why you, finding out why you want to do. It's more important than how yes, what.
Speaker 1:Why do you want to do it? Cass, yeah, what's the meaning for you in your work? What's what, what? Where do you find meaning?
Speaker 2:I find meaning in that. It's a. It's like we're talking, so it's a language. It's about engaging with people. So for me, the visual it's visual literacy. I have the right to express what I feel and what I interpret the world around me, and it's about trying. I have the right to express what I feel and what I interpret the world around me and it's about trying to be honest about that. So it's a reflection on the world and that people could come to it and take their own stories from the work.
Speaker 2:Why you want to make I suppose I never stopped making. I didn't have it pushed out of me as a child and I just kept. That was how I made sense of the world and I think that is where I'm driven is that there are so many ways to engage with the world and I want to keep that maintained in an era of technology. Technology is great because it's allowing me to teach and continue to do things, but I want to have it in its place. That fits my view of the world, and I'm'm also one as a lay person, but I have had involvement with education.
Speaker 2:I believe one of the most important things computers we have is this one, the one in our brain and through studying in Japan, I became much more aware of some of those things I didn't have a word for, but they certainly gave me access to rethinking A word called kankako, and that's the connection between hand, eye and mind, and that's a powerful thing as part of our human condition and this is how we've always engaged with the world around us, because we need to. We need to know what berries are safe to eat or how historically we hunted for food, and that way of connecting is being eroded and I think losing that connection makes us unhappier inside, even if we're not aware of it. Being passive takes away our authenticity and ownership of how we can work with each other. There is another word which, forgive me, that's a carer's brain. Words sometimes need to come through. It takes hard. It's harder for me to do that.
Speaker 1:How do you think we're losing that connection? Because I'm fascinated by this now. I mean, I would love to go to Japan. Strangely enough, my husband and I the other night literally said we would love to go to Japan. And strangely enough, my husband and I the other night literally said we would love to go to Japan and I'd like to go for the kind of mindfulness aspect and the kind of spirituality as you've just sort of hinted there about. But the whole hand, what was it? Hand, mouth, mind. So how are we losing that, do you think, in this world? I mean, obviously I have lots of ideas, but I'm just asking you to understand.
Speaker 2:I mean, I can only say and this is my viewpoint, it's not, you know, I've read things. But and it's theoretically the opposing thumb finger and being able to make things helps to develop our brain. So if we're not doing that so much, there's a very practical thing. Young people, I'm finding, unless they're doing practical things with their hand I've seen it in working in schools, I've seen it in working in schools. One of my colleagues who used to work in a bank and volunteers said that's like by becoming visually bankrupt. So it's a lovely terminology. But I don't think it's just young people, I think it's generally.
Speaker 2:We don't slow down enough, we don't take time and recognize it takes time to do something. Well, you know, computer, like AI, is everything so fast. But have we really absolutely learned anything? Or is it we're just taking for granted what we're given? This is, this is, this is I mean these words coming fresh out of my mouth.
Speaker 2:So for some people, oh well, I'm content that you can. That's where we should be. We should be contentious, we should be challenging things and we should be asking the right questions. So I think that connection between hand, eye and mind helps us to develop our faculties in a much more um, sincere way, that we are reasoning then develops. All of those things are giving us power rather than passive and always receptive of things. So I like watching a tv program like anyone else, and I can be drawn by cat videos on youtube like anybody else on certain days. But I I can't do all the time. I need to be out there, I need to go for my walks, but I don't think enough people, I think for some people don't say I should, I'm not going to say you should be doing that, but they've lost that in their lives and I think, I believe that that's sad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you. I absolutely agree with you and I think sometimes as well. Cass, it's interesting when you were saying about some people might contest what you're saying and I think, like you, that's a good thing. That's discussion, that's difference in opinions, and I think in this world now we're becoming a little bit, there's a like fear-based thing going on that people are frightened to raise their hands and go. Well, I disagree with that, because then they'll be attacked. You know the people are saying no, no, we're not listening anymore, we're just shouting each other.
Speaker 2:If you look at like and I don't want to go down a route that feels at the moment right for this conversation, but that lack of cohesive thinking, having your own authenticity, being able to make some. Actually I need to question that. I think our educational system isn't actually helping that system isn't actually helping that and I strongly believe that it leads to exploitation. We can see that happening around us. It's frightening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 2:Manipulation. Manipulation you can lead to manipulation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how are you on yourself, kaz, in terms of are you harsh on yourself and your perfectionism, or are you very forgiving of your own faults and your mistakes that you make? How are you as a person?
Speaker 2:I accept, I've always accepted that making mistakes, no matter how hard that is, and I'm not just talking about my creative things. You learn from those mistakes, you know, in order to fail. We know that our adage. But everything, everything is potential for learning.
Speaker 1:Let's go back to when Derek had his stroke. What is Derek's condition? What was he left with after his stroke?
Speaker 2:He had a right side stroke that left him left side weakness. He had a right side stroke that left him left side weakness and he had a small effect in fact on another part of the brain. So he's lost the use of his left arm. He has weakness in his left leg so he walks with a quad stick, but his brain has compensated to a certain degree. So one of the strangest results of periphery vision going he might only see all the numbers on one side of the clock or half of the food on one side, because he's lost half his vision in both eyes, not in one eye.
Speaker 2:I have virtually no vision in my left eye. He also in the early stages your brain fills in so he knew he was hallucinating in hospital. So if he was tired doesn't happen so much now he'd fill in the gaps. Andspoken he told them I'm seeing things and he said they were really interested because it is a known syndrome but a lot of patients don't like to talk about it because they think they're going mad so I know I'm not that, you know.
Speaker 2:He said, I know it's not real, but can you tell me why? Um, he couldn't communicate verbally for a few days but that came back. So he's, he is able communicate very effectively. He has left side neglect which, particularly in the early days, and sometimes it happens his brain forgets. His left side isn't working, so he has to be reminded when he's out or he can walk a few paces and he does look to remember. But that's where the risk factor comes in If he forget, forgets he can do something and thinks that he can stand without using a stick, but he's had two falls in four years that have needed to be hospitalized. So I think that's saying something and a lot. He broke his hip a year later. That's a risk factor when somebody's mobile with a stroke, but I was well. I'd rather he was mobile than in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1:So that obviously is a lot to deal with. What was Derek's occupation? Was he working at that time or was he retired? I met him at art school he did odd jobs.
Speaker 2:He's a builder, decorator. He turned his hand to anything. Our whole house is a reflection on our lives, so I'm known for my use of found materials. This whole studio. Everything in it is found Old cupboards, built shelves. I did a little. Anybody wants to find it on Instagram you can see what was his work. Shed is now in my studio, which he converted, so this must have been incredibly difficult.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's always difficult, no matter who you are, to have a catastrophic stroke like that. It's always difficult, no matter who you are. To have a catastrophic stroke like that is very difficult. But it must have been so difficult for the two of you because, as you've just said, that you know such a hands-on person always making and doing, and the one thing he can't do anymore is to make and do to the extent that he did so you know, I helped him pre-pot his love, his bonsai you.
Speaker 2:But he needs assistance because some things are not safe or he can't manage them with one hand I mean I had my arm in plaster this time last year and looking after him. Simple things like lighting the cooker, so he'd press the button and I would turn it. Or opening a can I had to bring it to his table. I'd operate the key and he would clamp it because I didn't have two hands. So we're a good partnership. That's why I said care with stroke survivors. We worked out how to do some things together when I only had one arm as well. People said, well, you got a pair of arms. I said, no, we haven't. We've both got two right arms. Yes, that's not a pair. That's not a pair. No way are they a pair?
Speaker 1:How was it in the first few months? Because I would imagine that there would have been a lot of. Obviously there's shock. I would imagine in a way there's a grieving of the previous life that you had.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And frustration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, regret, I think Small regrets. You know, I've learned to do things differently and I, you know I don't say what regret is the right word I've been very fortunate. I've led a full life, so that's carrying me through this time. I've been to places. I met some incredible people, had wonderful experience. Some people don't have that, so I count myself fortunate and I'm still having those experiences, but all but differently.
Speaker 2:I think the biggest shock was that I, derek, is a homebody and this space is a lovely space to be in and I've always been one. And I think that's the Romany thing that I like being out in different environments, working with people. It's always about being with people in different environments. You know, holidays don't do it for me, although when I'm traveling I like to go somewhere different for a day and learn. I wouldn't want to be laying on a beach, it's not me and I like being with people when I'm doing that because it's their space and they can tell me so much more than I can learn. So I'd be here and I'd get what I call itchy feet.
Speaker 2:So there was always a balance between me being away for the weekend or being away. If I went to Australia, I'd be away for over a month to cut down on mileage. You know all of that. So I'd be away for a long time and I always said when I'm at home I get to a point where I just want to be away for a few days, and when I'm away for a long time I'm itching to get home. And coming home meant I came home to this space where Derek was and that was the strangest thing when he was in hospital for three and a half months and I was catching the train and cycling because I don't drive, cycling to see him at their cottage hospital, being here on my own. I've never, you know, I've come home and he's always been here. So that was really challenging, you know I did.
Speaker 2:It was autumn, so I had his garden. That kept me occupied and at that time it was just work to keep a frustrated and often angry mind at rest. Work, work, work. Because that was the way I managed, because I was used to always being busy, but it was work without thinking.
Speaker 2:I couldn't focus, and the first, the only things I focused on was hand stitching words that we'd had in conversation. When his words start to come back about the garden, you know, um, and people may have seen that piece of work called Derek's Garden and the very first thing was him telling me where the WD-40 was, because I would say I always talked to him all the time in those first week or so before his speech started to come back. I'm in the garden and I can't get that back gate open, the padlock's stiff and I don't know where you've put the WD-40. And this clear voice said it's in the cupboard above the toilet, where it always is. And I just went and they were the first words I stitched, so these little conversations about the garden. I just stitched on bits of cloth, not knowing what I was going to do with them, and then I made them into a piece of work that hangs beside his bed which is called Derek's Garden.
Speaker 1:That's lovely. That's a lovely story. Now you mentioned that you know angry, so I presume you meant that Derek was the angry one.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe you both were Angry and frustrated, trying. It's like it's a flight or fright. I think many people when we went in the pandemic. I don't know how it felt for you, but that first two or three weeks I felt I was trying so much to manage something that I couldn't have management over. People were telling me could they rebook me? And I said I don't know, and having all of what my I mean we didn't have any financial support at that time You'd got all of your earnings just sucked out from under you.
Speaker 2:It was if you, if anybody, felt that that's what I was going through again, but probably twice as much because I was on my own. I felt very I had I've. I had good friends and and you know they would, particularly when Derek came home if I they hadn't taken my washing sometimes, because that was the steepest. You got to a point where things felt a bit normal for the period of time in hospital. The first two weeks was tough, a week or two, but then it became a normal thing to do. When he came back home again, that first month was just a nightmare.
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking, though, kaz. Obviously you strike me as a person who is very much action orientated. I mean, we said very early on in the interview that you've always been this person who is wanted to find out things and do things and learn new things and go places, and that's continuing. And here, with Derek, in this situation. You know, as you just said, there you were alone. You know you felt very alone, and you know you're having to keep doing things and coming up with solutions. Yeah, got to be too much for you, kaz, and if it has got to be too much for you, what's actually happened and what we've done about it? Because I worry a little bit for you that I mean, my question was going to be do you ever stop? Because I feel like you're on a hamster wheel and you're keeping it going. You're keeping it going, you're keeping it going, but it's got to stop at some point, kaz, because otherwise you're just going to burn yourself out.
Speaker 2:So my ways of stopping are like having that. Small things like going for a walk every day, walking in the park, being quiet, doing nothing, meeting with friends for coffee these small things you have to accept. Caregivers are on a hamster wheel, so they have to snatch those moments. I know what I need to do if I absolutely need support. If I can't manage Derek, I don't know how that will work because I'm also mindful of what Derek needs, and you don't know until it happens how you are going to manage.
Speaker 2:I've learned to accept the quiet times. People say you could just take a break and go on a holiday rather than go and do a workshop with people. But when I'm away with people, that's because I am in the quiet. I have to provide a quiet environment. The gardening is my quiet. That's not the hamster wheel.
Speaker 2:Now Instead of me being a worker in the garden yes, I work, but the garden's given me an awful lot back. I can't I, you know, have little things like when I finished with you today, I'll be making my cup of coffee in a little thingy on the stove with a bit of cream, sitting in the garden with a book in the sunshine, have it. So these are the small things. So I do I. That's slowing down and again, if we're in a workshop with young, with people, a day or two days, it's hard to build in that reflective time.
Speaker 2:I'm certain you're aware of that longer ones you can. You get that quietening down. There are periods where they do, but I always say when you go back I want you to put those away and not look at them. You can go through the techniques so you see if you can remember it, but just don't look at the work. I do. That Work rests for a while. I don't just keep going at it. I'll put it away and do something else. That is the as I said the old fashioned word $64 question. It's probably the $600 million question at the moment. I don't think anybody really stops. I like watching Derek Moans because I sit and stitch in the evening and I like watching QI, so I do watch telly. But they're the small pieces of quietness. I don't get the impression you stop very much at all either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right. No, you're absolutely right. I mean, I love what you were saying about the coffee and I've got a little coffee machine, so I will also go and make a coffee. But I've been thinking that today I'm going to go for a walk in the woods.
Speaker 1:It was a bad day for me. I just felt very, very heavy. I don't know why, and instead of taking myself out and doing something good for myself which I could have done because I'm self-employed and I could have done the work today I persisted on editing yesterday and then I made myself feel worse. So today I thought no, I'm going to do a lovely podcast with you, because I really enjoy the podcast. So I want to do a lovely podcast with you, and then I'm going to go for that walk and it is essential. So I'm. But I'm glad to hear that, kaz, because I think that's one of the problems of being a carer, isn't it? You feel so. You are so needed by the other person you want to give your support. Obviously, you loved it very, very much, but you need to have time for yourself as well, and it's that really fine balance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and time for myself is also retaining that connection I have to my creative world. So I'm doing this and I do this. I'm doing far less. It smokes and mirrors. When people see anything online on Instagram etc. It's just that little blip. I'm here, this is what's happening.
Speaker 2:I don't I'm not over revealing. Sometimes I'm in the podcast, but I don't want to be talking about all of the negative things that go on. I have friends I can talk to if I have a hard time. Nobody really wants to hear that. But I also think as a maker, it's about being pragmatic and saying to people this is how I manage and this is in my life and people I choose to engage with my project partners. I call them because they want to engage with me and accept that things might change at any minute, because in reality, it can happen to anyone. There's a triangle to what I need. I'm not talking about what Derek needs. This is about what I need as part of being a carer. I need challenge, I need connection to my creativity and I need connection to others and that creative, intellectual challenge being with other people because I spend more time on my own now, retaining that. At the moment. I'm not saying it won't change, but I can't ever seem wanting to lose that connection with people through teaching. I do less of it. I really enjoy doing it. I enjoy watching, but also I want to keep those skills alive in me because I think that makes what I do livable, viable and the person that I am.
Speaker 2:I can be annoying, I know that. I think some students probably find me totally annoying, but I'm not saying. I only do what I'm doing because it's the only way I know how to do. I try to do it with care without hurting people. But we're human and we're all going to make mistakes. We're all going to say something that one day might not sit well with someone else, but the best thing we can do is talk about things and find a way of talking. So there are days I want to throw plates at the wall, scream. I mean I literally.
Speaker 2:Uh. One very simple story when early days derrick came home. When derrick's, I learned how to get him in bed because he wasn't so he could walk. But some days he had weak days. I learned these things and one carer came in and I'm certain that she meant well, but people get in that routine. So one. One carer came in and I'm certain that she meant well, but people get in that routine. So one carer came in and it was nine o'clock in the evening and he was in bed by then. And I'd got him into bed and her first words were with me, not how are you? What can I do? Oh, he's in bed. What am I going to do now? And I just looked at her. I was in utter disbelief.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, the enablement officer was somebody I knew previously, but I wasn't even in my head at the moment. I said I don't know, but you're here for 30 minutes, so I'm going for a walk. This was November. I'm going for a walk around the block because I need a walk. I hadn't been out of the house. That was the toughest thing those first four weeks. I barely was out of house. And I go, I'm an outdoor person and I'm going out for a walk.
Speaker 2:And I left her and walked out of that door, walked and I only went out for 10 minutes to get some fresh air and realized I was still in my slippers, came back and I said I apologize for being direct. I said if I didn't get out of the house. Then I said and I don't know. You're here, you're looking after Derek, I said. But if you come and he's already in bed, he's in bed Because you know they've got my paperwork to do. They were there to support me as much as Derek and I just did what I felt I needed to do at that time and then think well, actually you were a bit abrupt. I apologized to her. I phoned the enablement team person who sometimes came around the out and explained to Cass that's absolutely fine, no problem with that. She said, in fact, your lunchtime, when they come around, you go for a walk.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're incredibly strong and resilient. I mean, you know, one thing that's coming through to me, cass, is because it would be very easy to say, oh, the reason that you like, you know, going off and working with people and teaching, and you know, is because you're running away. You know you're running away, you always have to be with other people, and I genuinely do not believe that of you. I genuinely believe that, as you've said, you are just this inquisitive person who is constantly searching and wanting to learn but also give back, I think, and have that human connection.
Speaker 2:And also it's not about running away, it's recognizing what can I do that's viable. I know that that might not happen for long. Derek's brother's older than him, so he flies over to give support. My mother has dementia, my sister lives in Norfolk and her husband's got Alzheimer's, so we talk to each other via phone and I know my well-being is cited within my creativity and it's also good for Derek to see you know. It's a positive thing for him to see you know I can be up here and I can hear things. It's good for Derek to not have me in his presence all the time. He needs a break from me.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's. I mean that's. Yeah, that's very important as well because in a way, that gives him some of his independence back as well, because so much of his independence has been taken away from him.
Speaker 2:So it's about how do we manage the next stage and the next stage or the next change for all, for me and him. How did I manage the change with my arm in plaster, with no support?
Speaker 2:yeah if I hadn't called upon friends who helped with changing the beds and doing the wash you know that immediate attention, that the physical things were what I needed help with or cooking crossroads came and gave me some extra support as well. So they've been brilliant. They're a brilliant charity crossroads, because they know I'm a lone caregiver. But there is that thing about accepting those changes and maybe preparing for them. But being able to be with other people and him to see me still doing is good for him. But fundamentally I'm his partner. I'm his life partner first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's one of the really difficult transitions when it's your partner who is needing the full-time care which is so often the way because, as you say, you're his life partner and then suddenly you become his carer, and then there's a line that gets very blurred, isn't there and, as you say, he's going through moments of frustration and anger, and then that gets put onto you and then suddenly you're like well, I didn't sign up for this and that's not what our relationship used to be like.
Speaker 2:And he does have moments of frustration and anger, but generally speaking his mental health has been really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, one of the biggest lessons I've learned in life, kaz, is to go with the flow of life. Yeah, you have to accept it. You have to accept it. All this stuff is going to happen and if you are trying to stream, to swim up the river the wrong way, it's just going to exhaust you and it's going to be so difficult. You have to accept with what life gives you and you have to go with the flow, and that's something I feel that you do very, very well.
Speaker 2:And I recognize my own values as well.
Speaker 2:So, whilst I'm doing far less in teaching and, for example, I've had exhibition up in Scotland and people they hung it and I was on zoom so there are ways of using the tools I've evolved in the technology in the last, we all learned in the pandemic to manage. Okay, yes, I'd loved to have been there in person, but we ran a whole community project and got funding from it through this media and I took part in them. So there are other ways of managing and my, my feeling is is if people are willing to do that with me, then I'm willing to work with them and I'm not going to put myself through stress if, if it can only be done in a certain way. So it's about people meeting me more than halfway, if you like. It's that little bit of let's see if we can do things differently, and I think that is what caregiving is and that's what creativity is. It's about not sticking to the patterns. It's about looking and engaging creatively and intellectually with what is possible, rather than it's always been.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also as well, kaz. One thing that's really coming through from this interview and I think this is such an important skill for anybody in any situation in their life is to stand up for what they want and tell people what they want and need, absolutely Like you did in that room that day. I'm going for a walk, I need this. You could have just sat there and let all those feelings inside just bubble away, but you didn't. You said this is what I need and from what I'm hearing from you, this is what you are constantly saying in your life and you're asking other people in your classes to find out what they need.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was. I was I interviewed by we Care UK and I actually went to the Houses of Parliament in December. I don't get carer's allowance because my earnings still take me over that minimum. If you earn less than a hundred and something like120 a week, you can claim a carer's allowance of £85. But with some people getting an uplift in their income, if they're doing a small part-time job they might be working in the local co-op. They might have gone over by 50p a pound a week. They get hold of the carer's allowance removed but they didn't know that, so they're being fined thousands or the money taken away. You have to be providing more than 36 hours minimum of care a week to get £85. So I don't want the stress of going through that.
Speaker 2:Most people who get carer's allowance end up not working because they can't work. So there might be borderline where people might retain a few hours a week, which is good for them, for their independence and well-being. But if you're self-employed you can't even enter that debate and I went up to talk about what it was like for me, what the difficulties are as a self-employed person being a primary carer, and it's also hit at a time that we don't have enough carers, there's recession, there's the migration issues. You don't have to look at the hospital. I was up there and Germany did a wonderful advert. They had a wonderful creative advert, if you took away the migrant new migrants and people of a different ethnic background who are relatively new to the country who?
Speaker 2:may now be British citizens away from the health care provision. It would be seriously denuded probably two in ten. Yeah, would be what would you know? So I'm very proud that we were a welcoming nation and had have you know, as in the care profession, yeah, and we just don't have enough carers. We have not enough carers provide the support they need. So I'm not saying it's a fault of the carers, it's the infrastructure that's not there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that needs to change. So what are you hoping will happen in the future for carers? Then what do you think carers need? I mean obviously financial assistance, because that's outrageous that you go 50p over and you lose your entire carer's allowance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not, I say it's not means tested, but that's means tested by another. Yes, I think one is what we do is valued. I consider there are 5 million unpaid I think 5 million unpaid carers in the UK. The cost that's equivalent cost to the NHS, so that we feel valued and that we are people that do all kinds of other things as well. We're not just carers. That listening to us and supporting us will also support the economy, which is what the government is really interested in, but it will also support the well-being of the nation yes it's not just me.
Speaker 2:We need to look at people as people and support people to do things. You know, I've seen the erosion of the youth service, so that's the add-up to that. I think I mean I could go and I don't want to get over political, but it's just about a fairness that doesn't seem to exist at the moment.
Speaker 1:No, we are losing. I think we're losing empathy. I think we're losing people skills.
Speaker 2:They're the bonds that tie us together. Yes, it's about adaptation and change. We're losing that because we don't talk to each other. We don't recognize the value in ourselves as human beings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, and we do need to do that. We need to keep talking, as we say, we need to keep putting our uh hands up and saying what we need as people, um, and communicating and working together, but we are losing it. We are absolutely losing it. It's just simple things for me because, like I in in my supermarket, you know, obviously.
Speaker 1:You know, there was a period at the moment, my husband is back home because of some illness, but he was working away and my daughter moved away and suddenly, from me having this full house, I was on my own every day, all day, for five days until the husband came back for a couple of days and then he was gone again and it was a big, you know, it was a big transition for me. It was like whoa, where's where have all the people gone? You know, and although I'm working for myself and, yes, I might do a podcast, but it wasn't every day and there were some days when I was sitting here on my own all day and I got a real taste of what it's very lonely, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It's very lonely.
Speaker 1:And so some my relief factors would be and I know that this is something that apparently a 78-year-old person would say, but this is how I felt as a much younger person I would actually look forward to going into Sainsbury's or I'm not choosing Sainsbury's because it's Sainsbury's, I'm choosing because it's my local supermarket. But I would go into my local supermarket and there were some ladies that over the years have been here 20 years. They would recognize me and would have a little hello. They've all gone and now we've got these self-serve checkouts and I just find little things like that are eroding our society, because I would go in and I would have a conversation oh, how's your daughter going? I remember she used to come in. She was always so well-dressed as a five-year-old and now she's at university.
Speaker 2:And we would have these little chats for 10-15 minutes, which would just lighten my day. Yeah, and that they're the ties that bind us together. And also on the fundamental practical level, we took our young people in the youth club with goggles on into a supermarket, weighted weights around their wrists and gloves on, and made them go shopping to teach them a little bit of empathy when they're behind an older person in the queue trying to get their money out, get their food. You know how hard that is. When I had my arm in plaster, someone did come and assist me because it was really hard at the self-service. So I think you need both. You still still need more checkouts. Some people want that interaction. Some people require it because physically it's they're slow, slow down. I mean simple things like operating those machines. Everyone is different. If you are, eyesight is going or if you are beginning to lose some of your cognition, that becomes so much harder. Yeah, so you know, having that balance again, which is a theme that we've been talking about the whole way through this interview.
Speaker 1:It's finding that balance again, which is a theme that we've been talking about the whole way through this interview. It's finding that balance. I mean, yes, I don't mind those checkout things. I can go and do those checkout things, and there are days when I want to go in, I want to get my mozzarella, I want to get out, but it's important to have people as well Going into some self-serve places.
Speaker 2:I'm not a McDonald's person, but going into into somewhere you order on the screen and then go to the counter. I'm thinking so much quicker for me just to go to the counter.
Speaker 1:Yes you're saving you time, but but you're wasting my time exactly, and that's the same with the supermarkets.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, sorry. I'm going to put in a proviso here. I'm sorry. When I'm talking, I tend to reveal and be honest about what I am feeling. These are my thoughts, these are my feelings about how I interpret the world. You are free to choose to interpret the world how you wish, but unless I talk about how I feel and what's important, as we've just had this conversation this is what the world is about In a safe place, I know it might be going out and other people here and they'll disagree. You're welcome to disagree with some of the things I'm saying, but have the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, it's been a wonderful conversation with you today, Kaz. I have to say is there anything else that you would want people to know about you, kaz, because, as you say, you keep a lot of things private. Is there anything else you would like to say I?
Speaker 2:realise. One of the things I've learnt to do is, whilst my creative skills are really important, they are feeding into what I'm able to do as a caregiver and they're becoming what's the word I'm looking for. There's a synergy between them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know there always is. My work is all what has always been about the world I live in. So this is the world and and how has that changed? I started to make pieces about our connection between our inner and outer world, my understanding of Derek's brain and how he perceived things and how he still connects tangibly to the world around him, but how my world has shifted and how I'm looking at things on a more intimate level. My world has shifted and how I'm looking at things on a more intimate level?
Speaker 1:And what about anybody who comes across Kaz as a person, not just as an artist, but as a person? Is there anything that you would like people to know about you, Kaz, or appreciate about you?
Speaker 2:I like a walk. I enjoy sitting down and having a chat over coffee. It's always coffee when I'm out because, unless it's a friend at a house where they can make the tea, because tea is social. Um, I've got more open about people coming around to chat and be in my studio, but that's on an invitation basis because of direct so sort of twice. So I I do a lot of work more locally, some some of it voluntary, because that enables me to use some of my skills back into the community and that connection is really important. But that is valuing that locality as well. I can be very annoying at times with my passion. I know that I need to learn to shut up. Sometimes Anybody can buy me a bar of chocolate, as long as it's dark.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm the same. It's got to be dark chocolate, 70% cocoa, solid minimum. And I love your little coffee thing, because what are they called those? Because it's like I've got one Cafetier. It's like the silver thing, though, isn't it? It's like you, you put it, you put it in, then you fill it with water, it's got a little thing, and it bubbles up into the top of it, doesn't it love those?
Speaker 2:I'm not a coffee snob. I just like my coffee the way.
Speaker 1:I like to have good, strong coffee well, have you been to bar italia in soho ever?
Speaker 1:yeah, uh yeah, used to go. I used to love Baratai at the end of the night. Well, it has been a pleasure, kaz. And you know something I'm glad that I've met you before we were doing our class in a couple of weeks, because whenever people listen to this podcast, the class may have already gone.
Speaker 1:But you did scare me a bit when I first met you. I mean, I wanted to work with you because I loved your work, and then we were going through all the logistics and you were like I do this, I do this, I do that, and I was like this lady is scaring me. And I don't get scared very often, but I still. There was something I really liked about you and, as I say, I adore what you do. But actually getting to know you now and hearing where that kind of comes from, I think you're right. I think it is passion, I think it is wanting the best for other people, but for yourself, and that's really important and this is a great skill that I think hopefully if people have listened to this show today to take on board.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to remember to pull it back so I don't scare people.
Speaker 1:As a final sign off, kaz, I've just forgotten to ask you the magic question. So, before we go, final question is do you have a motto in life that has kept you going, or that you've always remembered, or that you say to yourself or to your students?
Speaker 2:from my local county where I grew up and one from the Winston Churchill Trust which I have. On my 20th I got a fellowship in its 25th year. So the Churchill Fellowship is with opportunity comes responsibility.
Speaker 2:Very true I was given the opportunity and it's opened up so many doors I can pin it back to somebody having faith, as a 25 year old sitting in front want to be scared. You tried talking completely without anything in front of you, to a panel of 12 members who represent the Churchill Fellowship, after arriving late because there was a bomb scare and you you had to explain you weren't going to be there on time and and and and the. Still I managed to persuade them I was worth sending away. Probably, probably they wanted to send me away, but worth sending away to Japan. And then the second one, which the University of East Anglia has adopted, which is the Norfolk saying to do different.
Speaker 1:To do different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the University of East Anglia says to do differently which. I think is a wonderful way and I think I've left my lead, my life, by that is don't just see what's there, find out, you know, accept there may be other ways of doing things, to do different. I think that's a wonderful motto yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:And it absolutely sums you up, kaz. It really does. You're constantly searching for different ways to do things, and I love your vigor and your passion, particularly when you take on board what you've been through, with this very difficult thing that happened to the two of you to you and Derek and you're still going through it, and yet you're still working your way through it and you're going with the flow and you're going with the challenges, and you're not fighting it. You're saying it is what it is and we have to work with it, and that's it's an admirable quality, and I think that that has added to your other admirable qualities, kaz. I think it has. I think, in a way, you know, we're sent these things to test us, but also to help us grow, and that is so precious. Well, you're precious, but not in a bad way.
Speaker 2:No, no, scary sometimes.
Speaker 1:Scary sometimes no precious Scary sometimes. A little bit scary, but now you're a lot less scary and I'm looking forward to our class. So, yeah, but thank you so much, kaz, for spending the time with me today, because I know your time is very valuable, so I really do appreciate your time. You can now go get your wonderful coffee with your cream and get your roofer back on the roof so he can carry on.
Speaker 1:He's fitting me in at the beginning or the end of the day, so it's not a big job, no, and I'm going to go for a little walk in the woods and ground myself and then carry on. So thank you so much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Take care then. Lovely to speak with you, rachel. Bye-bye, thank you. See you soon.
Speaker 1:Just before you go, lovely listener, can I ask you a favour If you have a friend who you think would enjoy listening to this podcast, would you mind please telling them about it?
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