Episode 47: Texas at full throttle with TACA's Rich Szecsy

In this episode of Drilling Deeper, Kevin Yanik and Jack Kopanski team up for a deep dive into the nation’s No. 1 aggregate–producing state: Texas.  

Their guest, Rich Szecsy, CEO of Big Town Concrete and chair of the Texas Aggregates & Concrete Association, offers an inside look at the unprecedented growth fueling demand for construction materials across the Lone Star State.

Szecsy explains how Texas’s surging population, robust infrastructure investment and business-friendly climate are creating incredible opportunities and unique challenges for producers. The conversation covers everything from sustainably meeting skyrocketing demand to navigating regulation, workforce development and technology adoption – including automation, AI and digitalization.

With firsthand insight from one of the industry’s most respected voices, this episode captures why Texas is setting the pace for aggregates and concrete production nationwide, and how producers can keep up in one of the fastest-growing construction markets in the world.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you to our show sponsor, Kemper Equipment.

EastRock Solutions is now part of the Kemper Group – and together, they’re raising the bar on parts availability, equipment solutions and turnkey plant design. From the pit to the stockpile, Kemper Group has got your operation covered. 

To learn more, visit kemperequipment.com or call (610)-273-2066.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

For 108 years, Pit & Quarry magazine has been the premier monthly aggregate processing information source. Through multiple platforms, we deliver the very latest in equipment and technology news and information that is critical for safely achieving the highest level of efficiency and profitability. Editors Kevin Yanik and Jack Kopanski cover the market in print, online and through e-newsletters. As respected industry insiders, they moderate the annual Pit & Quarry Roundtable & Conference and speak at industry conferences and meetings.

Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram. Also, follow us on YouTube to see full-length episodes of the podcast, watch our Road to Prosperity videos and see other clips from our travels and events.

Transcript

Kevin Yanik:Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Drilling Deeper. I'm Kevin Yanik Pit & Quarry's editorial director, and today we're going to take a look at what's happening in the great state of Texas. They're the number one crushed stone producing state in the country. And to help us along and do that, we've got with us, Rich Szecsyof Big Town Concrete, he's our special guest. But before we dive in with our content with Rich, let's hear a word from today's sponsor.

Did you know East Rock Solutions is now part of the Kemper Group? And together, they're raising the bar on parts availability, equipment solutions and turnkey plant design from the pit to the stockpile, Kemper Group has got your operation covered. To learn more, visit kemperequipment.com or call 610-273-2066, thanks to Kemper.

Well, that again, was Kemper. Thank you Kemper for being our show sponsor, and let's welcome in Jack Kopanski, Pit & Quarry's managing editor, Jack, what's going on today?

Jack Kopanski:Kevin, it's going well, how's it going with you, man?

KY:Going great. Looking forward to diving into episode 47 almost two years in here at this point. And we're gonna be talking about the Lone Star State. You and I, we're regularly keeping tabs on the numbers that USGS puts out in terms of crushed stone production, sand and gravel production, aggregate production as a whole. And it's no surprise that Texas is number one. Everything's bigger in Texas, as they say. And you know, I know toward the back end, we're gonna get a little bit more into some numbers, and our guest today hails from the great state of Texas, but I know you were kind of digging in beforehand. You want to offer a little perspective on the aggregate production that Texas puts out before we get into today's guest and the fodder that Rich is going to be sharing with our guests today?

JK:Yeah, absolutely. And you kind of teed it up perfectly. Everything's bigger in Texas. It might be the Lone Star State, but there's not a lone rock in Texas. That's probably a terrible play on words, terrible pun, but I gotta at least try. Yeah, we were looking over the totals for crushed stone, sand and gravel, as well as aggregates as a whole. And I mean, just the amount by which Texas surpasses the second and third placing states in aggregates as a whole and crushed stone is just astounding. We'll get into a little more of the details on that after the interview, but I was just looking at it. And you know, the only sort of maybe surprise is that they're about a million and a half tons behind California when it comes to sand and gravel. Every other, or, I guess, the other two metrics, aggregates as a whole, and then crushed stone, they are producing more than the second and third ranked states combined. So it is just astounding what they're doing down there. We were talking a little bit beforehand. I mean, you just look at some of the operations you got down there. You have one of, if not the biggest operation in the state, Balcones, the Cemex quarry. We were talking about when we went to Young Leaders down in San Antonio in 2024, getting to see Vulcan's 1604 Quarry, an incredibly impressive operation there. So, I mean, just really no surprise that that Texas is leading the way. And I know Rich offers a lot of really good insight about what's going on in the state, how they're kind of setting the bar. And yeah, it's funny, we've talked to a lot of people this year about what's going on in the aggregate industry. And I think a common thing we've been hearing is volumes are down, pricing is up, but I guess Texas didn't get the memo about volumes being down, because they are still crushing it. Pun very much intended.

KY:It is wild when you get into the numbers. I always knew that Texas was tops there. And again, on the back end of this, I think we'll probably share some numbers and percentages in terms of how much more dominant Texas is versus every other state in crushed stone and aggregate production, and still very high in sand and gravel, top two or three, I believe, is what you put it as Jack. But aggregates, like you said at the back end of your comment there last, Jack, it's all very locally driven, state driven, I suppose. Texas doesn't have a state tax, and that helps to fuel and incentivize people to move there, and all that basically translates into demand for construction materials, whether it's aggregates, whether it's asphalt, whether it's concrete. That's what's going to drive it. And Rich kind of gets into it at the top of our interview here today, but nobody's a stranger to the fact that Texas is really seeing an influx of people over the last several years. They're moving from, in many cases the higher tax states to, again, a no tax state there in the state of Texas. Texas incentivizes things from a funding standpoint, in terms of their infrastructure, they're making best use of the federal dollars from the Infrastructure Investment & Jobs Act, that being IIJA. The opportunity there is just going to continue as Rich, again, is going to get into it today. You know, boots on the ground there in Texas.

Rich's company, Big Town Concrete for which he's the CEO, he joined them in 2024. Basically,he oversees the full operation of the company's permanent concrete batch plants and their portable concrete batch plants, so he's more tapped into the ready-mix side. And as he kind of describes, I mean, Texas is the king of concrete. They have five of the biggest cities in the country. You know, you think about the Dallas-Fort Worth market, Houston, San Antonio, and a couple other ones that, we're here in Cleveland, Jack, and I mean it's a sizable market, but some of these Texas cities are just rapidly growing. And I think based on some statistics or anecdotes I've read, they're going to have to be building the next Dallas-Fort Worth in the next decade, plus the next San Antonio over the next 20 years. And that's astounding to think about that, because of the population that's moving toward that region. But if you got the people coming, you gotta have the materials, and that all breeds opportunity at the end of the day. But again, Rich kind of resides more on the concrete side of the industry. He's also the chair at this point in time of the Texas Aggregates & Concrete Association. He just took the helm of the board there earlier this year when they had their summer meeting, and just a lot of activity taking place in Texas at this point.

So within our interview today with Rich, you're going to hear about a few different topics come up. We've got about 30 minutes with Rich here to play here shortly, but we're going to talk about infrastructure and the big boom there, what producers are doing to kind of make preparations for the growth that's coming, and how they're kind of keeping up with the demand. Because, as we talk about all the time, Jack, on the show, it's hard to find people. We gotta have workforce. Sure, we've got AI and automation and digitalization that are helping us to kind of bridge the gap that we can't necessarily fill with people at this point in time, but we still gotta have a workforce there. Fortunately, there's a lot of people moving to Texas, so hopefully we're able to translate some of them into our own workforce. And Rich is going to get into technology and how construction materials producers there, how members of TACA, those producers are making preparations, again, and utilizing that to their best ability.

And again, because Rich lives on the concrete side of the construction materials industry, again, he represents TACA, their aggregates and concrete. But we're going to hear a little bit about sustainability and decarbonization, topics that we've maybe brushed on a little bit here on the show in the past, Jack, but he's going to get a little bit more into the weeds for us and talk about what's happening to kind of prepare for the future, because we're trying to provide more sustainable materials, yet at the same time, we have to grow now. We need materials on the ground now. And so how do we fulfill the needs of today while providing for the needs of the future for 20, 30, years down the road? So Rich is really an interesting guy, wealth of knowledge, somewhat unique, I would say, in terms of the knowledge that he has and the perspective that he offers. So I'm really looking forward to sharing this interview with our readers today, and Jack, thinking back, I don't know if you recall, but Rich was one of the speakers at the Young Leaders meeting in recent years, and I know a lot of people who sat in on that found his talk, his presentation, riveting. I know I did. So hopefully those taking this in today get the same takeaway.

JK:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that was one of those ones where, we see a lot of speakers, but that's definitely one that kind of sticks out of my mind. One, obviously, the knowledge he presents, but sort of the stage presence and the way he presents himself, the way he carries himself, is very impressive. So, very excited to share this interview. Certainly a lot you guys packed into this, into this time you guys had together. So, great conversation, as always, with Rich.

KY:Well, let's hear from the man himself, Rich Szecsy. 

Interview Starts

KY:We've got Rich Szecsy with us today. Rich of Big Town Concrete down in Texas. Great to see you today, Rich.

Rich Szecsy:Hey Kevin, thanks for having me. It's always an honor and pleasure, and happy to help however I can with Pit & Quarry.

KY:We got a few different topics we wanted to dive in with you today. Obviously, you're in one of the fastest growing states in the country, so want to hear what's happening on the infrastructure front there, what's happening in different construction markets. But maybe just to kind of paint the picture of yourself and Big Town Concrete to start, Rich, tell us about some of your operations and your role at the company here in 2025.

RS:Yeah, you bet. I'm currently the CEO of Big Town Concrete. We're located in Dallas-Fort Worth, which is the largest concrete construction area in the US. And we're also located in the largest concrete construction market in the United States, from a state standpoint. And so I don't say that to brag at all, it's more just these are statements of facts, and they change the dynamics here quite a bit on how we approach things. And so, yeah, I'm running that here for them in the ready mix market with all the trucks, all the plants and all the competition you can handle. As I like to say, this is the show here in Dallas-Fort Worth.

KY:Yeah, it doesn't get much bigger down there in Texas.

RS:No, it really doesn't.

KY:It seems like every year in Texas, as I've kind of just watched from afar here, I'm based in Cleveland, Ohio, but it seems like there's always activity, especially in those big metro markets. But 2025 here, Rich, I know you're doing more with the Texas Aggregates & Concrete Association, as you're the new chair there. So what's happening in 2025 down there? I guess, how would you describe the current moment for the construction materials industry in the Lone Star State?

RS:Sure. So a couple of things is, let's assume that we're going to chat for 30 minutes here on this podcast. That's, you know, half an hour, and we, in that time period, 20 people, statistically, will move to the state of Texas in the next 30 minutes. That's 40 an hour, that's 1,000 a day, that's 365,000 a year. And with the natural population growth we have internally, you're looking at half a million people per year being added to our population. Now, I'm going to get nerdy with you for two seconds here, is that when it comes to aggregates, when it comes to concrete, when it comes to cement, their consumption tracks in a linear fashion with population. Three absolutes I'm certain of: death, taxes and materials tracks in a linear fashion with population. So for Texas, that means we're at two yards per capita, two cubic yards per capita on concrete. So you're talking a million plus yards per year, additive to our current consumption rate. Do you want to talk aggregates? Say 11, 12 tons per capita. So now all of a sudden, you're talking six and a half million tons being added the current consumption level. And you can do the same thing with cement at 0.6 tons per capita there, and all of a sudden you're at 30,000 to 40,000 tons of cement. These are staggering numbers. This means, dynamically, you have to have plants, trucks, quarries. And most important of all, and truly, the bottom line there is you got to have people. You've got to have people.

On the other side of that, you also have to have the political will and recognition that people are moving here, which means they're going to keep eating. I equate Texas to the 15-year-old boy. It eats all the time. It never stops. It never shuts down. We can work 12 months out of the year here, and we do. All of that requires everything from practical regulation to political will to economic growth and support to people. I mean, it's probably the most dynamic time I've ever experienced in 30 years of doing this. It truly is, and we haven't even scratched the surface on the other stuff regarding technology, sustainability.

But I will tell you, I can't not have this conversation with you without talking about how proud I am of our industry and its approach to safety. 30 years ago, when I started in this, ballcaps were considered PPE, because it kept the sun out of your eyes and it kept things from hitting you in the head, was that was the bill of a ballcap. We have revolutionized the way we approach safety in this industry. I could not be more proud of how our industry has embraced it and is leading in comparison to many other industries. To me, again, with all of the changes and everything else, we don't forget our foundations, pun fully intended, about the importance of safety and protecting our people. Most dynamic time I've ever seen in 30 years, and next year, Kevin, will be more dynamic than this year.

KY:Yeah, that snowball is just going to continue, if there is such a thing as a snowball in Texas. But Rich, you talked about the population growth and the migration and kind of what's coming, what's happening. Texas as a state is supporting that. I suppose they could see what's coming and turn a blind eye and not want to support infrastructure within the state, but they've got a robust program, they're very progressive, it seems like, on the infrastructure funding front. Plus you've got good, solid funding federally at this point in time. So I guess, how would you characterize the ability to do projects, the support you're getting from state and federal government right now? And I guess, how does that help fuel further demand for materials, that funding?

RS:Yeah, so great question, and I think a lot of it, I'm going to go back to the simple thing of population, right? So if you've got a population, you have taxpayers. If you have taxpayers, you have voters. And to move all of these people around the state, to get them where they need to go, whether it's a school, church, grocery store or their jobs, you have to have the infrastructure. And I think we've recognized that for decades. I think that's cultural in Texas, that goes all the way back to the 50s when Johnson was both president and he said, "You have to have a statewide infrastructure system that is constantly evolving." And we are. The I-35 corridor in Texas is the longest construction project in the history of the world. I mean by both length and duration, because it's still growing and it's still under construction. It just has never stopped since it's been built. So I don't think we're going to see an end to that. I don't think it's a difficult argument to make, whereas everybody's kind of like, "Hey, we need funding. We need funding." We understand that if you want to perpetuate and keep the Texas miracle going and growing, you have to have infrastructure.

And the one thing I would say is that we also, you've mentioned federal and state, municipal has also done a great job of at the local level. So it's a combination of municipal, state and federal working together. And as crazy as this may sound in our current political climate, infrastructure is agnostic politically. There is not an argument to make there that this is a red versus blue argument, purple versus green argument. Infrastructure is critical for everybody, so nobody really argues the need for it, and nobody wants orange barrel disease on a road. Don't let your roads catch orange barrel disease. Get them open, get those lane miles done and let's move on. Otherwise you cannot keep the, as we like to call it, the Texas miracle going.

KY:Rich, you described 2025 as the biggest moment you've seen. 2026 is going to be bigger, and that's just going to continue. So as a producer, and you know, you're in a unique seat there as the chair of the Texas Aggregates & Concrete Association this year, so you're talking with your fellow producers in the state. How do you how do you guys keep up regularly with this demand? Because you know more is coming. You know you got to make more investment. You talked about the workforce, and that's a challenge industrywide. I can't imagine it's not a challenge in Texas, although you got population coming in there, so maybe that helps versus some other states. But as a producer, Rich, I guess how do you keep up knowing that this demand is going to continue to be there?

RS:So, as a producer and a business operator, one of the things that we like is predictability for consistency. We can manage around almost anything. I think of it as something as simple as I'm delivering concrete to a job site, and something happens, whether there's an accident on the highway, whether there's a problem with the plant or a pump breaks down there. As long as somebody knows that, they can manage around that. The same thing is true when it comes to our industry regarding regulation. Regulation is not something that we are afraid of, what we're afraid of, and is problematic, is unpredictable regulation or those kind of things. And so practical, predictable regulation is a key part. That's also why TACA is critical to doing that, and it's also making sure that policy makers, whether they're state or local understand that that demand is not going to stop.

It's kind of like – I'm going to date myself here – when we used to have newspapers. People used to describe things that were above the fold as really important, or below the fold as you never noticed it. Our industry, which you know and the listeners know, is foundational to everything. We are the foundation of a community, period. But nobody notices us because we're below the fold. So I think that's the other key part, is making sure that policy makers, regulators understand how critical we are to those other things. I was in a meeting the other day, and I was with some policy makers, and one of their things was, "We need more skilled labor jobs." Has anybody looked at us? We're an entire industry of skilled labor jobs that pay very well. There are careers here. There are career paths here. We would love to continue to be a resource for skilled labor jobs for you. But that group at the other end of the table said, "We don't like you in our community." And I said, "How do we reconcile that? Because you need us in your community to build it. You want the skilled labor jobs that we provide. So let's come up with a practical approach to it."

So long way around to the part of your question about how, as a business operator, do we approach things, I think it's A. It's recognizing what the demand is going to be,forecasting and making sure we have the resources available to support that internally, asset-wise, human capital-wise, financial. The other part is making sure the community understands, from a regulatory and policy standpoint, we have to work together. Consistently and constantly informing and educating people about that. It's the, "We don't want your your things here, but we need all these new schools, churches, hospitals and stadiums." How do we do those things without the other? So again, long way around, but all of this is intertwined. And the one thing I'll leave this question with is, as businesses, as business leaders, we cannot leave the engagement with our community to others. We have to be elbow deep in that engagement, whether it is advocating, educating or just communicating what we do, but don't leave it to somebody else. That's going to be kind of my stump speech, is, business leaders in our industry have to be engaged in their community.

KY:Rich, you talked about kind of the tone and tenor of regulation that that is beneficial to the aggregates industry, to construction materials producers. So in terms of regulation in Texas, or policy, legislatively, I suppose, what's happening? What's developing these days? Something that to watch, something that's actually been pro-industry that TACA is kind of top of mind at this moment in time.

RS:Yeah, I think there's a couple of things there that we haven't seen before. So I'm going to start with a big one, and work backwards. 10 years ago, we never would have a policy or regulatory discussion that used the phrase low carbon. We just didn't. It wasn't part of the lexicon, it wasn't part of the … Oddly enough, the carbon issue still existed then, too, but it just wasn't part of the conversation. Now, that is. I will tell you, as a practitioner, we're still not 100 percent sure what it means. I don't think the people who are trying to advocate for it know what it means yet, but we know it's a critical part of policy and regulatory development. So that's kind of one leg. The second one is, we're an industry that depends on natural resources. You can't just kind of go, "Oh, hey, can you go over there and take the aggregates from that part of the ground?" The answer is, "No, we can't." We all know that, practically. The aggregates are where the aggregates are because the good Lord put them there. So, that's where we have to go get them. So now all of a sudden, we have to advocate and educate both policy makers and community members, "Hey, this is where the materials are. We can coexist. We can work together in a practical way so that we can use these natural resources for the betterment of the community and be partners with the community when we do it." You cannot regulate your way out of that. We have to have practical, predictable regulation.

And then the third part about that is, I'll go back to the last stump speech I was making, which was engagement. The people who don't like us, and Kevin, there are people who don't like us. They have people engaged. Who do you want to describe or create the narrative? The people who don't like us, or us as practitioners that are involved in it? So to me, those are the three legs of the stool for good policy and good regulation is you have to have the engagement, you have to recognize what the trends are, and then you have to understand that there's a balance there. And by that, I mean, do not let perfect be the enemy of good enough. And that, I think, is one of the big challenges that we've always had for when it comes to policy and regulation. So to me, all of those things are tied together, and they do not happen overnight, you cannot flip a switch and hope to get a result. This takes time, this takes strategy, and this is years in the making and development, and that's why organizations like TACA, that's why vehicles like Pit & Quarry to communicate out are so critically helpful and important to making that happen. Long way around, but I think I may have hit the target there on that one.

KY:Absolutely. Rich, just to stay kind of in this topic area, you kind of touched on the environment and decarbonization as something that we weren't really talking about as an industry 10 years ago. So, when you kind of bring that into the Big Town Concrete universe as a construction materials producer, what does that mean? What does that transition look like? And it's still ongoing, you kind of mentioned, we still don't really fully know what form that's going to take, but what steps can you say you have taken today since this kind of conversation has emerged, and then what's next that you're preparing for as an individual company?

RS:Yeah, great question. So I'll take it down to a very ground and base level for us when we have a customer who asks that question. So I'm an engineer, which means I like to work backwards from the answer. Tell me what you want the answer to be, and I'll figure that out. And once those, when somebody says, decarbonize this mix design or reduce the carbon on this project, well, decarbonize isn't a measurable term. Reduce isn't a measurable term. What do you want the target to be? It's kind of the old joke about the three engineers who were asked the last question in the interview, "Hey, what's one plus one?" First engineer says, "Two." Second engineer comes in and says, "What's one plus one?" Well, it's two. Third engineer comes in and they ask him, "What's one plus one?" And he pauses and he says, "What would you like it to be?" Right? And so that's the way I look at these carbon issues or decarbonization, low carbon, reduced carbon, embodied carbon, what do you want the answer to be? And let's work backwards from that.

This is not a trend, either. This is how we're going to be making things, building things, our communities going forward. The interesting part about it is, not only do we need to define what the answer could be or should be, but we also have to understand that in our industry, as a materials industry, anytime a specification is created that mandates, prohibits, reduces, sets limits on, there are values that are placed on that that the person who owns this project has to understand. We haven't gotten to that point yet. I'll give you a great practical example. I grew up in San Antonio, Texas, and droughts were common there of "Hey, we're in drought condition, five, four, three, two, one. It was years later when I learned that the droughts, even though we were in certain conditions, weren't that severe, because they were still watering golf courses. It's kind of like, hey, when we get serious about decarbonizing – and I use that term loosely – and somebody says, "This is not an issue of value for me, this is an issue of reducing the carbon." Now we've turned a corner. I think I've said that the right way that keeps us all honest.

KY:Rich, maybe to take it just one more step further, too, I mean, just to discuss the reality of it, where we are, because we're talking about potentially a big transition. I think it's interesting, and it's practical you're talking about, "Where do you want me to be at the end of the day? Show me what your finish line looks like and we'll see if we can get there." But in terms of making things doable in real world practicality, Texas, there's so much demand. So we want materials now, but we want them a certain way. I guess, how are we striking the balance here in 2025? Is it doable? Are there compromises being made in balancing environmental stewardship?

RS:There are, and I think it's a combination of things. One is affordability. Kevin, if you told me, hey, you'd like me to build you an elevator to the moon. I can do that, right now, today. I can build that. I just need you to write a pretty big check. But we're going to get you an elevator to the moon. And so when you see people that are saying, "Hey, we want these results," there's a certain value that is assigned to that. And what is the value? And then the other one is, I truly appreciate you going back to this, which is the efficiency. Some people might use the word speed. Hey, I have 40 people per hour, 365,000 people per year, moving to the state of Texas. That is not a time delay where we're like "Hey, let's think about building a road. Hey, let's think about building homes." No, you need to be building those right now today, which means I need the aggregates today, the cement today. I have to put trucks on the road full of concrete today. So how do we balance that?

Again, I go back to some of the earlier points, and probably the most important is people. It doesn't matter how much aggregate we need, it doesn't matter how much so that we need or concrete that we need. If I don't have a person in the truck, it doesn't matter how much you need. If I don't have a person in the quarry working, it doesn't matter how much you need. So our industry, one of the challenges, oddly, no matter how much technology we have on one end of the spectrum, we still have to have the people on the other end. This goes back to everything from what I would call skilled labor jobs and compensating people appropriately for them. In my company, that's what the way we approach it, and keeping them safe. Nobody wants to go to work somewhere where it's unsafe. They just don't. So those are things that we have to continue to promote is, this is a career in an industry that has a career path that it teaches you things, and at the same point in time is, we're safer than we've ever been, so this is a great place to be. And for a certain group of people, myself included, I get to drive through a community that I've built. We all kind of think that that's cool, it's nerdy, it's geeky, but I could point to that building and go, "I built that. That road 200,000 people go across every day, that bridge that half a million people drive across, I built that." Whether it's the person who hauled the aggregate, whether it's the person who drove the ready-mix truck, whether it's the person in the back office who sold it, whether it's the person who did the mix designs, they can all point to that bridge, that structure, that thing, and go, "I built that." That, to me, is cool, and we need to continue to do a good job of teaching and telling people that.

KY:Rich, let's bring it home with the topic of people again, and workforce. I think at the top of the call here, we talked about just workforce as an industry challenge, one we've been experiencing for many years now. Take us inside the state of Texas and what that experience is like. I find it interesting, with population going there at the rate you're describing, maybe that's an opportunity. Whether it's TACA or other organizations, promoting the value of our industry and the value of the jobs in the industry. So there's opportunities there, obviously. But on the flip side of that, I wanted to ask too, when there's workforce issues, are there there's shortcomings or gaps, how are you guys getting around that? What role, if any, is automation playing here in '25? Digitalization, we hear about AI quite a bit, I don't know how much that's getting in there, autonomy. Throwing a lot at you here, but maybe take what you want and find a path forward on that topic.

RS:So yeah, let's talk about the people. So one of the great things that we're blessed with in Texas is almost everybody, and by that I mean your major vendors, national, international and privately held all recognize the fact that people are at the core of this. Training is a key part for everybody. It doesn't matter whether I'm at Big Town, I'll train you. I have a training program, an aggressive one. So does somebody who's a global company that works just down the street, they have a training program. We train people in this industry. In some cases, I may even want somebody who's never been in this industry. Please come to me. Let me teach you. Let me unwork that … You don't have no bad habits.

KY:Yeah, you're a blank canvas.

RS:Right. What a wonderful opportunity. And we've, as an industry, we've gone down to the high school level and said, "Hey, there is a career path here for you as a skilled laborer where you can make $100,000 within a couple of years of being out of high school." That's unheard of in some other places. Given our state conditions with no state income tax and these kind of things, this is a wonderful place, and the population migration is showing that. So training is a big part of that.

The automation is an interesting thing, because you still dig holes with shovels, you still need people to perform those activities. Now, there are a lot of technical and what I'm going to call automation, digital things, added to trucks, GPS being one of them. And I know that's an older technology, but can you imagine, when we used to work in this industry, without GPS? A truck would leave the facility and we hoped it arrived where it was supposed to, when it was supposed to. And then, even then when it got there, we didn't know until it got back to the plant or facility. Can you imagine when we did that, that we were somehow … So my point is that, yeah, we have some of those things, but the driver still had to perform almost the same actions. Still had to be safe, still had to be qualified, still had to be certified, still had to be licensed. So some things haven't changed, is the need for that. The automation and the AI is interesting. I think we're still at the first generation there. I think we're not really sure what this is going to do for us. I have very strong opinions about that regarding liabilities, shared data, all these things that are still kind of out there in the ether that we're still working through. The one thing I can tell you is that today, right now as we're speaking, is the worst the technology for artificial intelligence will be. Tomorrow, it gets better. So that is one thing I'm very optimistic about. I can't tell you what it will be.

Here's the analogy that I'll give. And you may not be old enough to remember this, but at some point in time, we would reach into our wallets and we would take out a credit card, and we'd go to a brick wall, and we'd stick the credit card into that brick wall, type in a bunch of numbers into a keypad, and money came out of the wall. That was sorcery to us. That was just impossible. You had to go to a bank with a passbook and have somebody discharge cash to you by filling out your passbook. Then I could go to a brick wall and money came out of it? Now we don't even do that anymore. So imagine what will be next. And the answer is, I can't imagine, because I don't know. Because if you would have told me when I was 18 years old, when I went to college, there was a brick wall that money came out of, I would have told you that sorcery. So going back to my earlier point is, even though I have some criticisms of certain technologies, I am 100 percent convinced today is the worst those technologies will be. They will be better tomorrow.

KY:Well, Rich. We covered a lot of ground here. I really appreciate the time and the opportunity to sit down and talk the trade with you. Anything else you want to leave our listeners with?

RS:Yeah, the one thing, first and foremost is thanks to Pit & Quarry for having me. You guys truly are an industry leading publication, and I want to thank you for giving me a platform to be able to communicate a couple of these things on behalf of the Texas Aggregates & Concrete Association. And the other one is, again, I can't leave this without continuing to promote the direction that our industry has gone with safety. There is no greater improvement than I seen in 30 years than how we have changed the culture of our industry and kept our people safe going forward. So again, thanks Kevin. Really appreciate it, and look forward to coming back anytime you need me.

Interview Ends

KY:Again, that was Rich Szecsy of Big Town Concrete. Rich, thanks again for getting together. Great to visit with you. And you know, Jack, just thinking about some of the things that Rich shared with us today, because he offered a lot, I kind of come back to just infrastructure again, and the population growth, the migration into Texas, and how that creates so much opportunity for construction materials producers down there, and how they're making a lot of preparations, and they're trying to keep up with regulatory and legislative demands out there. But at the end of the day, Jack, when you kind of dig into some of the numbers and what's happening in Texas, it's really astounding. I know you looked into this a little bit before the the mics turned on here during today's show, but just thinking about how they represent the nation as a whole, in terms of crushed stone, in terms of sand and gravel, and in terms of aggregates. It really is kind of mind boggling how much output Texas is doing. Do you want to get into some of the numbers that you dug up for us here today?

JK:Yeah, absolutely. And I think just before we touch on that, you had mentioned it at the start of this episode, and I just pulled up an article we had on pitandquarry.com from June 23rd, so about a month ago, following TACA's annual meeting, and Rich kind of mentioned at the same time, and this really stuck out to me at the time. You mentioned it again, and kind of refreshed my memory. He said, in addressing the boom that Texas is seeing, he said, "In just two decades, Texas will grow by nearly seven million people, from 31.8 million in 2025 to more than 38. 6 million in 2045." And this is where what you were talking about comes in. He says, "To meet that demand, we will need to essentially build the equivalent of Texas's five largest cities, Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Austin and Fort Worth, all over again." That's insane, like, that's crazy to think about that you basically have to double what you already have, which is a massive base, to accommodate all this growth. So it's just astounding and it's certainly going to be an exciting coming several years for Texas here. And very exciting that Rich is at the helm.

But yeah, like we were talking about at the start of the episode, Texas's contributions to the aggregate industry are staggering. If we look at aggregates as a whole, they produced in 2024, according to USGS, 286 million tons of aggregates out of the 2.38 billion tons total that were produced. That's 12 percent. So you got 50 states in the union. Let's just imagine it's divided equally. I know we're not getting hundreds of millions of tons from a Rhode Island or somewhere. Let's say it's divided equally. That's, that's two percent per state. They're doing six times that. It's, again, like you almost run out of ways to talk about how big it is, their contribution to the industry. You look at the second and third highest performing states, California and Florida. California came in in 2024 at 136 million tons. Florida came in number three, at 113 million tons, 5.7 percent and 4.7 percent respectively. If you add up California's and Florida's aggregates totals, that's 249 million tons. That still comes in 37 million tons lower than what Texas did.

KY:It's astounding, right?

JK:Two states combined are not doing what Texas is doing alone. And then you look at it again in crushed stone, it's more of the same. Texas, 192 million tons of crushed stone in 2024, 13 percent of the total. Number two performing state, Florida, 88.1 million, that's six percent. Pennsylvania, another 87.6 million, about six percent again, coming in about the same as Florida, about half a million less than Florida. You combine those, that's 175.7 million, that is about 17 million less than Texas. So it's just, I mean, we've kind of talked it to death at this point almost, but it's just like, you can't look at some of these numbers and not just be astounded and incredibly impressed by the operations that are down there, the people that make these operations go. People like Rich heading up TACA and working in the concrete realm as well. So it's just, everything's bigger in Texas, like we said, and that certainly applies to production as well.

KY:Just thinking about the numbers, Jack, and not to say that other states are doing it wrong, but Texas seems to get it. I mean, you and I semi regularly on the show, we're talking about the value the industry provides, the need for aggregates. If we're going to have a vibrant economy, you gotta have infrastructure, you gotta have roads and bridges and highways to support that, to support your network of goods moving from A to B and elsewhere. And Texas just gets it. When you see the population moving there, that means people see opportunity. When you see businesses moving from other states into Texas, they see opportunity. Not to say that Texas is doing every single thing right legislatively or regulatorily, because we're continuously fighting that battle.

That's why we go to state capitals as an industry, and we're lobbying for issues year in and year out. But I would argue they facilitate the need and the demand for aggregates more regularly, possibly, than any other state, because of those numbers you see, and because of the growth projections that you mentioned earlier off the Pit & Quarry article based on Rich Szecsy's comments at the mid year meeting down there in Texas. I think every other state, the 49 other states, wish that that they had the kind of the framework they could operate within their state, based on what Texas is doing. It probably is a model to follow. Again, astounding when you think about those numbers. You didn't even mention sand and gravel, and I know we think of Texas, we think of it as a crushed stone state first and foremost. But I believe they were second in terms of sand and gravel output, am I wrong on that?

JK:Yeah, they came in second in sand and gravel output. They had 93.7 million, about 10.4 percent of the total sand and gravel produced last year, and California came in, what would that be, about 1.6 million higher, at 95.3 million tons, 10.5 percent. So slightly outperformed by California, but right on their heels. And if you look at the sand and gravel numbers, it's sort of like those two, and then there's a large gap once you get to number three and everyone else. So those two are definitely up there. And then obviously, you know, Texas is hanging around.

KY:Well, again, really want to thank Rich Szecsy for for getting together, offering perspective on what's happening in the Lone Star State. There's obviously a lot, there's a lot more to come. We're going to be keeping an eye on that as a magazine, Jack. And offline, when I had Rich after our interview, I just mentioned we'd love to have have you back. Just a wealth of knowledge, again, and we are going to be putting out an article into the magazine based on some of the content I gathered from from Rich Szecsy there at Big Town Concrete. So again, thank you, Rich. Really enjoyed the visit, and we'll look forward to the next time with you.

JK:Absolutely.

KY:Well, what else is happening at Pit & Quarry at this point? Really want to just remind everybody, if you haven't consumed our last episode, we had a great guest, Steve Fuller from the Steve Fuller Company. He's a safety consultant, and he really offered some of his best experiences on the safety front, in terms of what he's seeing, what he's seeing change culturally, in terms of safety within our industry and out. So we'd encourage you to check out episode 46, which again, features Steve Fuller as our special guest. And we're hoping to have another producer on next time around. We haven't locked anything in at this point, but our next episode is going to drop on Tuesday, August 26. So we encourage you, if you're regularly following our podcast, we'll likely have another producer for you, just don't have any definitive information at this time.

Did want to say too, Jack, because usually we've got somebody in the pipeline with the show, somebody's approaching us, wanting to talk aggregates or wanting to talk to trade. We don't really put PSAs out there, but anybody wanting to share their expertise, or if you got a good guest in mind, reach out to Jack, reach out to me. We're always looking for good content, not just for Drilling Deeper, but for Pit & Quarry magazine.

JK:Yeah, certainly. We definitely love hearing from our readers and listeners, no matter what it's about, but especially if you or someone you know might be interested or might be a good possible guest to have on Drilling Deeper moving forward. Please, certainly, like Kevin said, feel free to reach out to either one of us. I'm at jkopanski@northcoastmedia.net and Kevin's at kyanik@northcoastmedia.net. We'd certainly love to hear whatever you have to say. So please, yeah, feel free to reach out.

KY:Yeah, if the show's great, if it's not, if Jack's great, if he's not, if I'm not, send it along.

JK:About to say, if it's positive feedback, send it to me. If it's negative, send it to Kevin.

KY:There we go.

JK:Perfect.

KY:We can work with that. Beyond the podcast, we've got the magazine, obviously, going out every month as well. So we're into the month of August at this point. We've got our special washing coverage this month in that edition. So you've got a case study on Koenig Materials and some other washing and classifying related content to consume, along with our regular tech, business and safety content. And Jack, we're already on to September, which is kind of wild at this point, but you know, as editors of the magazine, we're regularly working four to six weeks ahead, I'd say, and September is a Pit & Quarry month again. We've got a conveying and material handling pull out supplement to appear in that, so something you can look forward to in the coming weeks. And Jack, I know you're working on Portable Plants, and you've got your Buyer's Guide in the works for our sister publication on Pit & Quarry, that, again, being Portable Plants.

JK:Yeah, obviously the Buyer's Guide is always a bit of a bit of a project, maybe more so in Pit & Quarry. But it's always interesting putting that together. We've got a great team that helps us with that. And speaking outside of the Buyer's Guide for Portable Plants September, if you do receive it, if you're interested in receiving it, if you don't know what the hell it is and you want to learn more about it, I encourage you to check it out. We're going to have a lot of good original content in in the September issue, some visits that I have been a part of the last couple weeks. Kevin has some good stories that he's put together, as well as just some economic updates, some safety updates. So, trying to sort of get a good a good gauge of the industry and what's going on here about midway through the year for our September issue. So yeah, definitely check out Portable Plants magazine, or visit portableplants.com to learn more.

KY:Last thing I was going to mention, and I mentioned it a couple times here on the show before, Jack, but the Pit & Quarry University Handbook's in the works. That's going to be mailing out this November. It's a big project. It's something Pit & Quarry does every seven to ten years or so, and 2025 again, is another Pit & Quarry University Handbook year. If you don't get a copy of the handbook, we're going to have that online, so be sure to check out pitandquarry.com come November, because we're going to have our latest edition of that handbook, which is basically how to operate and run a pit or a quarry, Jack. So, we have our last edition from 2014 online. You can find that, again, on our website and and something to look forward to before the end of the year at this point.

JK:And we've been uploading excerpts from the coming handbook onto the website now. So if you go to the Pit & Quarry University site, I think you'll be able to sort of see the 2014 version, as well as some excerpts that we've posted already from the 2025 version so far.

KY:That's right, that's right. Those are there for you to take in right now as well. Well again, I want to thank Rich Szecsy of Big Town Concrete for being our Drilling Deeper guest here today. Also want to thank our show sponsor. 

Did you know East Rock Solutions is now part of the Kemper Group? And together, they're raising the bar on parts availability, equipment solutions and turnkey plant design. From the pit to the stockpile, Kemper Group has got your operation covered. To learn more, visit kemperequipment.com or call 610-273-2066, thanks to Kemper. 

Well, thanks again to Kemper. Want to thank Rich Szecsy again, and Jack, thanks again for joining me for episode 47.

JK:Thank you, Kevin. Looking forward to the next one.

KY:See you then.

JK:See you.