Episode 64: Pit & Quarry Roundtable & Conference Recap

This episode takes listeners inside the 2026 Pit & Quarry Roundtable & Conference, recorded on-site at LaPlaya Beach & Golf Resort in Naples, Florida. Kevin Yanik and Jack Kopanski recorded this episode at the conclusion of the Roundtable to share key insights from aggregates industry leaders, as well as reflect on the conversations shaping the industry right now.

The two co-hosts reflect on the content shared during the 2026 Roundtable from three event speakers: Evan Bender of the National Stone, Sand & Gravel Association, Bill Doran of Ogletree Deakins and George Reddin of FMI Capital Advisors. This year’s speakers offered updates on highway funding, the Mine Safety & Health Administration and construction markets.

Additionally, Kevin and Jack reflect on a Roundtable panel discussion that covered AI, automation and the future of operations. Episode 64 also features four Roundtable attendees as guests who share their latest industry observations. This episode’s guests include:

• Ross Duff of Duff Quarry (14:08-29:17)
• Kelan Moylan of TCI Manufacturing (29:17-42:07)
• Cody Ladd of Kraemer Mining & Materials (42:42-58:34)
• Michael Speech of Kemper Group (58:34-1:07:49)

The episode wraps with a look at what’s to come on Episode 65 of Drilling Deeper later in April, when a special guest from Haver & Boecker Niagara joins the show.

Drilling Deeper listeners can expect more coverage from the Roundtable in the weeks ahead on pitandquarry.com, as well as in the May edition of Pit & Quarry.

For 108 years, Pit & Quarry magazine has been the premier monthly aggregate processing information source. Through multiple platforms, we deliver the very latest in equipment and technology news and information that is critical for safely achieving the highest level of efficiency and profitability. Editors Kevin Yanik and Jack Kopanski cover the market in print, online and through e-newsletters. As respected industry insiders, they moderate the annual Pit & Quarry Roundtable & Conference and speak at industry conferences and meetings.
 
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram. Also, follow us on YouTube to see full-length episodes of the podcast, watch our Road to Prosperity videos and see other clips from our travels and events.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:06

The 2026 Pit and Quarry Roundtable and Commerce is a wrap. Jack Kapansky and I are here to break it down and share some insights from aggregates industry leaders all today on drilling deeper. Welcome in, everybody. This is episode 64. I'm Kevin Yannick, and we're shooting this episode live from La Playa Beach and Golf Resort in Naples, Florida. It's the site of our annual Pit and Quarry Roundtable event. Jack and I literally just stepped away from all the festivities to shoot this episode, and I guess that's why we're a little dressed up more than usual. I stripped the tie off. You look a little better than me. But I could I couldn't do the tie anymore, Jack.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

I don't I don't blame you. It's coming off as soon as we're done here.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

Yeah. But but I can say it was another exciting rendition of the roundtable. A lot to potentially talk about. We had some we're gonna have some guests playing for you today on the show. We got a manufacturer, a dealer, and a couple producers just to kind of talk about some of the things that we we heard at the round table and during our discussions. But but uh all in all, I mean, just a lot of excitement being down here in Florida. It's it's not bad. I mean, I wish we could show our our listeners what they're what they're missing out here as we're looking at some water and I guess we have water in Lake Erie, but we don't have 85 degrees.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

I was gonna say we don't have well, I mean, we we probably got some boats in Lake Erie, but we know we don't have them, you know, right front and center here like we do now at LaPly. It's a beautiful resort, and you know, we heard a lot of the same from the from this year's attendee. So who knows? Maybe we maybe we find ourselves back here again in a few years.

SPEAKER_05 1:28

Personally, I hope so. And I think a lot of our attendees enjoyed this place as well. So want to thank everybody who was here as part of our annual roundtable. And and uh we had our usual slate of speakers. You know, Pittenquarry is very fortunate. We've got partnerships with Financial Stone Sand and Gravel Association, and we had Evan Bender on hand. Evan offered some updates on the legislative and government affairs front. You know, we're in a highway bill year, it's expiring in September, Jack. So so Evan provided some updates. And I almost feel like there's some some mixed emotions or mixed thoughts on that right now in terms of whether we're gonna see another multi-year bill or not. But but Evan provided a lot of insights to our guests, and we'll be relaying those into the pages of the magazine here in in the weeks and months to come, even. But but uh so thanks to Evan Bender for being here from NSSGA and and similarly on the the mind safety and health administration front, we had Bill Duran with us once again. Bill's with Ogletree Deacons, and he offered some updates on on what's happening at Emsha at the agency there and kind of what's transpiring in terms of their posture with producers and operators and and what's happening with the enforcement out there on the front lines. And he had some interesting trends to share, you know, some reduction in citations and uh shared some numbers, so some things to watch there, as well as there always is at Emsha. So thanks to Bill, to Rand again at Ogletree for being a part. And and same thing with George Redden. I mean, just like NSSJ and Ogletree Deacons, Jack, we're very fortunate to have such a great partnership with FMI Capital Advisors. You know, George provided uh an update on the construction materials front, what's happening out there with markets, and and you know, like George's presentation to me was interesting and and uh just shared a lot of numbers in terms of where we are, talked about data centers a little bit. We talked about everything really construction markets, but uh I guess one thing I took away from George's presentation was just just the the sheer number and and volume of data centers that that are going in nationwide. And uh we talk about a lot on the show. We know there's there's a lot of opportunity there if you're fortunate enough out there to be a producer in a market where there is a data center, there's a data center going up. Um, you know, he mentioned, I don't think I was fully aware of this, that you know, a lot of them are kind of obviously in the south, I guess he talked about Virginia on downward, kind of curling around into this southern part of the U.S. So um, and those are probably some of the the better performing the or the best performing states we've seen right now. But but so thanks to our partners, our speakers here, Evan Bender, Bill Duran, and George Reddent, they really helped make this a special event. And Jack, I mean, anything you you took away from those guys or as part of the discussions that we had later on?

SPEAKER_04 4:00

Yeah, absolutely. I think you mentioned Evan obviously talking about the highway bill, IIJA is coming to an end here in September. And I think it was it was kind of interesting hearing from him where he seemed, you know, if I remember, if I remember his discussion accurately, he seemed pretty optimistic that we were gonna get something done. Maybe not necessarily this year, maybe, you know, maybe we get a continuing resolution this year, push it a year down the line, and then maybe get another one, another multi-year bill following that. And you know, I think George echoed that a little bit, but the one thing that stuck out, and this came up in um in my roundtable room, George was in it, and and someone had kind of mentioned his statement at one point when we were talking about IIJA and just some of the current big picture issues we were facing, is you know, George had a George had a a quote or a turn of phrase to kind of paraphrase where he said he hasn't seen sort of a lack of advocacy for a new highway bill. This, you know, the this much of a lack of push for a new one in a long time. And that kind of struck me where it's like, it seems like you know, this is something that we'd all want. You know, obviously, you know, there the nation's infrastructure it needs needs a lot of work sort of all together. Um so so to hear him say that there just really wasn't a lot of push to get a new one was kind of was kind of interesting and and maybe goes a little bit against what Evan mentioned. But you know, he did also say that, you know, again, we've got till September, but there's still so much left of IIJA that um I think is you know maybe a little bit a a little bit of optimism, at least for the time being. But yeah, I think the next couple, you know, the next several months and next couple years as we navigate what to do with IIJA and if and when we get a new highway bill is gonna be it's gonna be fascinating to follow.

SPEAKER_05 5:47

Yeah, I just want to respond to kind of what you were saying about about George's comment about about uh the next highway bill. And yeah, I didn't realize to your point, I mean, there's so much left of IIJA funds to be dispersed. We actually had George in here yesterday, and we were talking about highway funding, kind of where we are with infrastructure. And he mentioned, but he said, don't quote me. He's like, I think there's 40% of that bill still left to be had. So I mean, 40% of a five-year bill, I mean, that's basically two year two years of funding essentially there. So I'm not trying to put words in George's mouth or anybody's mouth, but I guess my my takeaway from that is uh to your point about you know, maybe there not being this big push right now with advocacy. I almost think, well, uh at least we've got good sustained funding for this year, and and some of that is probably gonna bleed into 2027, which is good to have continued sustained infrastructure funding and the confidence that goes along with that for our producers. But um yeah, I was uh asking Evan Bender too, again with NSSGA, um just about the different different variables at play because it's a very different geopolitical environment here as we're sitting on April 1st talking than it was just three months ago. And uh we've got an election coming up here in another seven months. Yeah I know it seems far away, but but the way these bills get get marked up and and then they need to start early. So, you know, Evan did mention too that you know President Trump, you know, wants to have an infra infrastructure bill on his ledger. He didn't get it in term one, and there's opportunity here in term two for that to happen. So it's gonna be interesting just given the political climate. Like, can we get that done? And I guess my my thought, and I think I've shared this on the show before, is I just feel like there's so much converging right now. Um, and then just to layer in that for the 40% quote unquote, you know, idea that there's that much funding remaining from IIJ. If I'm handicapping it, I would say no this year, but yeah, but something's gotta give at some point because again, our infra infrastructure is is lacking. And somebody was in here yesterday talking with me about just the the ASCE, was it the American Society of Civil Engineers? And I think he said it was a D plus grade, it might be a C minus now, but but uh it's not a infrastructure out there here in America. So um so a lot to consider, but all in all, Jack, I guess I would say I know we're talking a little bit more negatively, I suppose, right here, but everybody has a very good attitude, a very pretty optimistic outlook in terms of where we are and and where we go we're going, and uh not really any pessimism. I think people feel good about quarter two here in 2026 as we stand as an industry.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

You know, and I think even looking back six, six, nine months ago, you know, I I talked with some of the industry economists we talked or that we often talk with, and one of the questions I had was, you know, it was it was maybe a year, year and a half out from IIJA expiring, and my quote, you know, I asked him, I was like, do you think do you think anything gets done? And it was, you know, it was around the same time the one big beautiful bill passed, and pretty much across the board it was like, you know, no, I don't think anything gets done. You know, they just they just agreed to a lot of spending. I don't, you know, there was a lot of a lot of kind of flat out pessimism about anything getting done. And you know, hearing from someone like Evan, who is obviously a part of NSSGA and a part of these lobbying and advocacy efforts, and hearing from someone like George, who is really so keyed in on the economics of the industry, hearing that they have a little bit of optimism that again, maybe not this year, you know, maybe it's a maybe it's just sort of a kick the can down the road for a year or two. But the fact that, or I guess the hope that there will be another multi-year infrastructure bill coming in the next year or two is on is frankly a lot more reassuring than the sentiment I was getting at some point last year.

SPEAKER_05 9:25

Yeah. So our speakers, you know, they really talked about the the market environment out there, the safety environment as relates to MSHA and the legislative and government affairs landscape as it pertains to what's happening in Washington related to the aggregates industry, but but we also talked about equipment and technology quite a bit in your roundtable discussion, along with mine, Jack. And we had a panel discussion today. Actually, we just probably finished that about an hour ago. We were fortunate to have uh Thomas Hahn at Turner Staffing Group on that, along with Brian Zapaniak at WD Zapaniak and Tim Theobald at Kramer Mining and Materials, those last two guys being from Minnesota, but but uh a lot of talk about AI automation, a lot of still wondering and you know, I great ideas, uh wanting to see how that can kind of manifest itself into something real. Um, but I do think there's there's real opportunities out there right now to kind of seize the day and and uh and make technology, use technology to make your business that much better.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Yeah, 100%. And obviously, you know, we've talked we've talked, you know, to to our wits' end about autonomous hauling here. And I, you know, I think it was nice to kind of dive into more of an AI look at things with this panel. And um, you know, obviously we got into a little bit about what they saw and what they experienced at Con Expo, kind of what the sol were what they thought of the solutions they saw there. And um I I think sort of the overall sentiment was that there's nothing that's necessarily field ready yet with AI. And I think I think that makes sense, and I think I you know can understand that because it's a very whereas autonomy does slot in very well with something that is repetitive, monotonous, um like hauling, for example. AI, finding a home for that in the actual operation is probably gonna take a little bit more time. But what did stick out was the fact that Tim Theobald talked a lot about how they're using it on the back end. Uh Thomas Hahn talked about how he's using it from a hiring perspective, and Brian Sapaniac kind of talked about using it or or trying to find a home for it where it's not necessarily getting rid of some of those entry-level jobs, where again you're talking, you're talking maybe some lower level work that could be done with AI, but you don't, you know, you don't want to eliminate those again entry-level jobs, those starter positions where people can get that experience, continue to grow throughout your company. So a lot of really strong insights, I thought, you know, from from a from a trio of of just really intelligent guys and certainly appreciate them being open to sitting in on this panel. And uh, you know, I'm just I obviously I being the one running it, I was kind of kind of trying to trying to zone in on them while also focus on, you know, what I'm asked asking next, you know, as someone who was sitting in the sitting in the crowd, what did you glean from from the panel discussion?

SPEAKER_05 12:10

Well, I was gonna say I thought Thomas had a really good observation about Con Expo and the sheer number of software companies that are coming into the industry that had set up shop as with an exhibit at Con Expo and have identified construction and aggregates as a ripe opportunity. I feel like I've said this before on the show too, Jack, but I've seen over the years that models that show what industries are the most progressive with technology and which are the least. And I think mining and aggregates uh is kind of coming up the back end on a lot of those. So um so there's a lot of people that I've identified opportunity on the vendor space, you know, on the service provider software space, that there's there's gains that could be made here with uh with with software. Um I thought that was interesting. Yeah, I thought it was a great panel. Great to have those those participants and always great to hear what's happening on the front lines. Uh sometimes our industry can be a little secretive, so yeah, it's always great to get you know producers out there who are willing to share their experience, what they're doing, and what they would like to see done. Absolutely. We had a few guests join us here at the the round table across our two days here down in South Florida, and we want to share what they had to had to say, and so we're gonna be playing some guest interviews here for you next. We actually had Tim Theobald's colleague at Kramer Mining Materials, Cody Ladd. So we'll get some insights from from Cody. He's the president and CEO of Kramer Mining up in Minnesota. Ross Duff was with us. Ross is with Duff Quarry, he's uh an Ohio producer, he's a veteran of the roundtable, and he's actually gonna be the incoming president later this year of the Ohio Agrites and Industrial Minerals Association. Ross is a great guy, so looking forward to sharing his uh insights with our listeners here today. And we also had a couple guys on the equipment supply side, Jack, join us. We had Kellen Moylan from TCI Manufacturing and Michael Speech, uh first timer to the Pinquarry Roundtable. Michael's with Kemper Group, so we've got a manufacturer and a dealer there. So let's hear some sound from producers, a manufacturer, and a dealer who joined us down here in South Florida. We've got Ross Duff with Duff Quarry.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Your buddy Kevin. Yes, I think uh the fourth or fifth round table we've sat down together with and uh um done a couple video interviews here.

SPEAKER_05 14:19

So great to see you. I feel like our paths always cross, whether it's here at the Pit and Quarry Roundtable. We saw you at Con Expo. I feel bad we didn't get too much time to spend together. I think somebody was in the booth or I was running somewhere, so I'm sorry about that. But it's good to see you here.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yeah, my goodness. I think there was uh what'd they say, 140,000 people at the show this year. Uh I've I've actually been going since I've been 12 years old. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. That was uh it seems like it gets bigger every year. And um It does. You know, you always walk away from that place learning something.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

Did you make it all the way out to some of those far-out lots? I mean how much ground did you cover there?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Honestly, uh the far-out hidden gems are what we look for. You know, the the big known name brands are uh, you know, they they're always cool to see. But the up and coming, the new ideas, that's uh what we've always strived to look for when we go to the show.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Yeah. Well, maybe we'll start with Con Expo. I mean, sure. Kind of unique timing here just because we're at the Pitt and Corey Roundtable and Conference, which was originally gonna be going to be scheduled before Con Expo, but you know, through to get some insights, you know, what people were feeling going into the show, but now we get to hear about your show experience a little bit. You said like you said, I mean, I don't know if that was a record, it probably was 140,000 plus. Um, but uh I I guess did you have a game plan going in, Ross? And and what did you kind of walk away with if you want to you don't have to share too many specifics, but you absolutely have to have a game plan.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

You go in blind to the show, uh you won't get to see what you want to see just because of the sheer volume. But uh, you know, traditionally we we go to the show to learn, uh to be among our peers, uh, and to see up-and-coming technologies, trends in the industries. Uh I mean, this time we saw a lot of AI, a lot of efficiencies. Um, you know, and and I like I say, I've I've gone ever since I've been a been fortunate enough to go ever since I've been a kid with my parents and my late grandparents, uh, ever since I've been 12 years old, and and what a you know a neat opportunity. Um you know, again, taking away from the shows a lot of the automation, heavy equipment's neat. Um, you know, a lot of uh efficiencies as far as uh you know energy in our industry is is huge. And to see a lot of the uh OEM manufacturers coming out with some some equipment that it's gonna save everybody a few dollars. Time and money, yeah. Yeah, and reduce your cost per ton, which essentially is what everybody's out to do.

SPEAKER_05 16:33

Right. Again, we're here at the Pitt and Cory Roundtable and Conference where at La Playa beach and golf resort in Naples and and uh you know, coming off Conn Expo, it was a high energy show. I mean, seems like you're pretty upbeat, you're smiling these days. You know, there's a lot of activity taking place in Ohio where where Duff Corey resides and and serves. So I I guess how would you kind of characterize your mood here in 2026, Ross? And it's been interesting to start. Again, the roundtable has moved from January to March-April timeframe, and the world's different than it was just a few months ago. So I guess what's your what's your mood out there as an aggregate producer?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Well, we're based in the Midwest. Uh, we're in Ohio, Northwest Ohio. Uh weather has played a factor this year. Uh, it's been been particularly brutal winter. Uh, as far as 2025 goes, um it was uh relatively unremarkable year as far as any challenges we're seeing the equipment manufacturers catch up, your parts availability is getting back to normal. Uh I mean there were a couple years there where uh it was a little rough.

SPEAKER_05 17:31

I see.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, yeah, and you you had to uh beg, borrow, and steal to get parts or get equipment and uh you know lean on your your peers in the industry that uh in relationships we've made over the years to get what we need to do our job. Um where we're at, we're starting to see a lot of data centers, uh a lot of solar fields, a lot of heavy commercial. Um you know, they use a lot of aggregate, that's great. Uh we've also got the Intel project, um, which we you know through our aggregate association, we saw the demand for the aggregate, and and that allowed us to plan ahead uh to procure another processing plant a couple years prior, uh, which we've since got on the ground or you know, got up and running, and that's that's been great. Um we actually found that at the uh Conag Show, um CDE. We ended up reasoning all of our plants.

SPEAKER_05 18:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

And um that's been a good move for us uh getting into the back end of the sand and gravel business. Um but yeah, we're still seeing a lot of heavy commercial. Uh some government, we're you know, we're we're with the rest of the folks in the industry, kind of curious what happens after September. Nationally. Nationally, correct. Yeah, in Ohio, um again, it's it's pretty unremarkable. Nothing nothing wild one way or the other.

SPEAKER_05 18:48

Yeah. You mentioned uh the association, I assume you're talking about the Ohio Aggregates and Industrial Minerals Association, and you know you're gonna be the incoming OAIMA president here, I guess at the end of the year, and you guys are you're kind of already part of a bill, or you get to be part of on the front lines, I don't know, the front lines, secondary lines of getting this underground mining build.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

So uh yes, in Ohio we are uh introducing some legislation while we um uh an underground mining, it's SB 181 through the Ohio Aggregates and Industrial Minerals Association. Uh it's just some level-headed um uh uh laws that uh not only protect our industry but protect the individuals working in the industry and the neighboring um uh property owners and so forth. Just some level-headed legislation working proactively with uh you know our our current senators and current state reps um versus a reactionary bill, which is never good for any industry. And uh that's been eye-opening. It's it's been uh pretty interesting going to the State House.

SPEAKER_05 19:48

Ross, when you think about the year ahead, you know, we're kind of at the the end of the first quarter here, already looking into the second quarter, April 1. Um I guess maybe describe your your excitement level. You talked about all those uh like those non-residential projects, like the Intel project in Ohio, you know, data centers, you mentioned solar field projects as well. I mean, I feel like that that's kind of really kind of changing the the non-residential construction game right now. And a lot of that's driving it. And Ohio is very fortunate to be part of that and have those those opportunities. Um so that seems to be a very healthy segment of the industry. Um I guess what else in 2026, the months ahead, are you expecting to kind of drive business going forward? And I guess I if I can get a comment on the residential front too. I mean, as as we're building some of these other things, you got to have residential, and that's been kind of a you know, a wait and wonder segment for a while. So I don't know, just your assessment on some of the different construction markets a little more deeply.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Uh some of our companies are outside of mining and and do dabble a little bit in residential construction. And we have had some pockets of demand. Um but Ohio's still got a pretty soft residential market. Um the the price points haven't uh come up to to be able to support a lot of new developments, but I'm looking at the area with horse blinders on, you know, just just my little portion of Ohio. Uh we do have some construction, but not at the volume uh that you know requires the amount of aggregates that a you know a commercial data center factory. And we're also very blessed to have Honda in our backyard. I think I've got about six or seven plants within a 45-minute radius of our mine site, and they use a lot of our product.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

So that's been great. Um you know, they they've had a lot of changes with whether they're putting in a battery plant or not putting in a battery plant, we're not quite sure. But um, you know, they're still pouring concrete and still laying stone.

SPEAKER_05 21:39

So some of those projects, Ross, um, whether it's Honda, Intel, some of the other ones on that that that commercial front, industrial front, however you want to describe it, are those like supplemental the way you're approaching them, or is is that helping to drive business right now? I mean, I suppose you could argue in a way, you know, right now, some of those are like big bonus projects. Like they're they're helping to really uplift a lot of producers and keep things motoring forward. Um so those are gonna be some long-term projects here for for a few years on some of those, but uh I guess your approach or your thought on you know, is that a driver or is that more supplemental?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Uh well it's absolutely a driver. Uh and that's due to the fact that there's only so much aggregate produce production in a given area. You know, if you don't, you've got to truck it in, and that adds to the price per ton exponentially. So um as long as there's that demand, whether I'm supplying it or my competition is, the demand is still there, whether it's from uh the large projects or the you know the smaller projects, and I'm fine with taking either one. You know, selling selling aggregate, selling aggregate. Right, right. And and we're we're glad to take business however it comes.

SPEAKER_05 22:44

You mentioned uh the highway funding and the national bill. And you know, I guess I wonder how that kind of comes into different states, different regions, different parts. Um we're gonna be talking about that at the Pit and Query Roundtable here quite a bit over the next couple of days, but um and I'm not sure how much you know depth you've knowledge of you you have on that, but but just your feeling on on uh kind of where we are, because you mentioned September 30th, I believe. And you know, that's obviously when the the IIJ is going to be expire, and you know, it's important that we that we kind of address that. You probably want to have some confidence with the multi-year bill. So um I guess where are you right now in terms of um our ability to kind of get get that next one through? And do you have a feeling on whether we're going to or not?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Well, I I hope what we don't need is a stopgap. We need a multi-year bill. Our our industry does not uh or does well when it it can plan ahead over a multi-year or longer period. Because let's face it, to bring a new large volume processing plan online to permit, that doesn't happen overnight. And if the legislature could give us a multi-year uh framework to work off of, to plan around, uh that ultimately get our cost per ton down, get the taxpayers uh more value for their dollar, and frankly, it would make our infrastructure that much better.

SPEAKER_05 24:01

You mentioned that that plant you put in, the CDE one just a year or two ago, maybe even less at this point, but you you know, you discovered that plant in 2023, you know, that was a year when we were kind of we're kind of in the middle of that that highway bill. Maybe I'm leading you here and I don't want to do that, but but having that bill in place, you know, knowing that there's gonna be you know so many dollars put forth to kind of support the foundation of your business, did that help you make a decision?

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Oh, it absolutely did. Yeah. And and you know, I'm I'm really proud of that that plant we put together. The the quality we're we're of material we're producing uh has led to us actually being on allocation. I can take no more orders this year for that plant. Wow. And that's that's fantastic. Um and again, you know, I I found them at Conag. Uh I don't want to say I I knew of them, but I didn't know about them. And you know, meeting the the boots on the ground, the guys building the plant helped us. But but back to your original question, you know, if if I know more jobs are coming, uh we'd we'd position ourselves to be able to supply the demands of you know the industry of the government. Um but you know, we're to react within a couple months or you know, a bill that a again is a stopgap, uh you might be a little more reluctant to take that that you know large risk that you would otherwise on a multi-year bill.

SPEAKER_05 25:24

Aaron Powell And we had a couple stopgaps, not not too long ago. I mean, prior to IAJA and I don't know if you can rem remember that that time period, but maybe take me back if you recall, Ross. I mean, what what was your your mindset at that point? How did that impact your ability to to move forward on a project? Or were you just more of a kind of wait and see until you got that that firm clear signal?

SPEAKER_01 25:44

To be honest, uh what drove mine was the uh uh Department of Defense getting behind Intel and giving it a I guess it's Department of War now.

SPEAKER_05 25:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Uh giving it a Homeland Security designation. So once I knew that government money was behind the project, it was gonna go. So that's where I knew we'd have the demand, and that's that's honestly what put me over the edge to purchase the plant. But uh the highway bill. I I you know, I trying to think of the most politically correct way to put it. We we weren't sure what to think.

SPEAKER_05 26:16

Aaron Powell Ross, we're kind of at an interesting time here as an industry, as a nation, really. I mean, inflation is still part of the picture, and you know, we were talking offline a little bit about energy and kind of where we are as a nation. You know, costs are going up. As a producer, how is that manifesting into real-world pain at this point?

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Well, I mean, with geopolitical tensions, uh everybody's looking at the rising energy costs. Um you know, diesel fuel is what it is. We're in Ohio where we've got a lot of uh data centers which are great for aggregate demand, maybe not so much for your electric bill. And uh, you know, when you're producing aggregates, you're looking at your cost per ton. And uh what we're watching in Ohio is we just passed a bill where we're allowing behind-the-meter generation. Now that can be a diesel generator, it can be a you know, natural gas generator. Um I'm really excited for SMRs, the small modular reactors that hopefully we'll see in our lifetime on the mine site. Um and and you know, I'm seeing a lot of uh equipment manufacturers uh coming out with hybrids or talks about it or some of the efficiencies. And I'd look for someday for uh, you know, who whomever the the heavy equipment manufacturer takes the medium-sized loaders or the medium-sized trucks makes them 100% electric drive line, it gets rid of the mechanical drive line, puts a proverbial diesel generator on it. I can see aggregate manufacturers running their plant on their generation and then charging their equipment at night. I I really see that coming in our industry.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

Yeah, so interestingly, Ross, I mean, maybe just where we are, and if we're gonna continue to feel geopolitical pain here for for weeks or months or or longer to come, I mean, is that gonna force manufacturers, you know, producers like you to kind of have those conversations and talk to the OEMs about hey, uh how you're making equipment and how you can make me a little bit more efficient and how how we can save money at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Well, I mean, at the end of the day, we want to be efficient, we want to, you know, save money, but we also want to insulate ourselves from those outside factors. You know, at the end of the day, we just want to break rock, make a little money, and go home. And uh if technology allows us to do that and manufacturers uh come up with the the equipment to do what we need to do, um I I see that being the future in the next hopefully sooner than later, but maybe the next decade or so.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

Well Ross, maybe just to capture a final thought from you on 2026 and what's ahead. I mean, what what what else are you watching? What else you know maybe maybe make keeps you up at night these days? It sounds like things are mostly positive. You're always uh you know looking for the next thing, it seems like, which is great, you know, trying to push push the needle further a little bit, but but uh any final thoughts as you look to the the months to come here in 2026?

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Oh we're we're uh you know we're very blessed to have the business that we do in Ohio. Um you know, as long as diesel fuel stays uh down to earth, uh we look forward to having a great year. Um and again, very lucky to be able to do what we do. And I I'm pretty optimistic uh for 2026. I think we're gonna have a great year.

SPEAKER_05 29:14

Well, Ross, we appreciate you being here at the Binquiry Roundtable. Well, thank you for having me. You've got Kellen Moylan from TCI Manufacturing. Kellen, it hasn't been too long. I just saw you at Con Expo, but how are you doing these days?

SPEAKER_00 29:23

That's right. That's right. Good to see you, Kevin. Appreciate you guys hosting and putting this event on again. Uh it was great to see you at Con Expo and another fun event here in Florida.

SPEAKER_05 29:33

Yeah, a lot of fun in March. I mean, it's kind of hard to believe that we're already looking at you know spring production across the country at this point. You know, second quarter is already gonna be getting underway, but but maybe just to start with with Con Expo, Kellen. I mean, I got the chance to visit with you and I think it was the middle of the show, and there's just there was a lot of activity. And Con Expo for us, and probably for you too, it's just kind of a barometer of, well, how's the industry doing? I mean, are people out there interested in wanting to talk to us about projects? So um, so I guess what what was what was your takeaway at the end of the day, you know, coming out of that five-day show? It seemed like there were a lot of a lot of high-energy people there, you know, ready to do do some business. What did you guys see?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Yeah, I think so, Kevin. I think there's always a discussion on uh metrics on the show and how many people are coming there, and that's the metric of success. And, you know, sometimes you never know if you're getting the right numbers or not from a show like that. But we, I guess, would peel it down to were we having the right conversations with the right types of customers for us? And the answer was yes. I think the show was down uh in overall attendance. I think some companies did trim a little bit on who they were sending out to these shows, but it seemed to be um who they were sending were uh folks that were very interested in having conversations about, in our world, capital improvement projects. And to us, that's always a metric for success. If we're having good conversations at a show like this about real life things and not just talking about some pie in the sky, what's happening, how's the weather types of things. Uh, we we saw the needle moving in a very positive and confident way in in Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_05 31:12

Yeah, in a way it kind of gives you a forecast or some in some insight, some intel on on what's gonna happen for TCI, you know, in the months to come. And again, you know, coming off 2025, it seemed like we just had a producer in here, we were talking, and you know, said 2025 was kind of more of the same. I mean, it was good, and I think the industry kind of continues to show its resiliency despite some headwinds that just continue to pop up, some go away, but others pop up. Um But I guess just assessing kind of where we are here in 2026, Callan, how do you characterize the state of the aggregate industry right now? And you know, you just mentioned Con Expo a little bit. I mean, does that give you a little bit more enthusiasm for where things maybe going?

SPEAKER_00 31:49

I don't know if it gives us more enthusiasm. We had a lot of enthusiasm coming into Connexpo. I think there were some reassurances that uh that we found from from Connexpo and and uh um the again going back to metrics, our greatest metric that of consumer confidence in our industry is what is our backlog. And that's it's distilling it around a little, distilling it down a little simply. But if we've got a strong, healthy backlog that's balanced across the country and in different sand and gravel, crush stone, monpa, uh, fortune 500, uh a little bit of everything that we've got in our backlog, to me, that speaks to a really healthy industry. And ultimately that's that's great news for everybody. And we we kind of got that vibe from Con Expo. And that's what we're seeing and anticipating in 2026 is is uh with with a lot that's going on out there in the world uh that potentially could be a headwind or a distraction or or something that could be legitimately concerning, uh the the foundation and the basics and the core principles are there that America does want to still continue to grow its infrastructure and and that uh material producers are are a vital part to our country's success.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

When you talk about the tangible projects that that people are coming to the booth at Con Expo asking about or just kind of connecting with you and other means for um I I guess what sorts of projects are we talking about at this stage? I mean, I feel like some of the buzzwords we hear about these days are efficiency, you know, more technology, automation. Um But I guess what are some of the buzzwords that TCI is kind of playing into that customers are coming to TCI and you guys as an an OEM are trying to be the solution provider on?

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Yeah, that's a good question. I I think uh what always amazes me is after we go through a few good years of seeing some large capital improvement, green field projects, things like that, that uh you'd almost think, okay, we've got that pretty well pinned down. We're caught up now. But it's much like infrastructure in the sense that uh we can deploy a lot of capital and a lot of resources and rebuilding bridges and interstates, highways. Um but you still look around and you say, how is that thing still standing there? We still have a long ways to go. And we see the same thing in the producer world where we're surprised every week at a at an invitation from a customer to go out and see a site and to see just how uh behind or dilapidated or unsafe potentially uh some of these sites are. And and uh there's a lot of of opportunity for producers to to get uh leaner and meaner, of course, but sometimes it's still just uh there's just old bones out there in our industry that that uh need to be refreshed. And when they're being refreshed, they're talking about how can instead of just building this back, how can we build it better? And that's a lot of times where where we're called in.

SPEAKER_05 34:49

Yeah. You're talking about your backlog, you kind of mentioned the demographic and the dynamic that's at play there. And it sounds like it's pretty balanced, but there's a little bit of everybody that's that's kind of wanting to do something these days. I guess in terms of maybe what's hesitating them right now to move forward. I mean, is there any hesitancy or or or what are the pain points or the concerns that they have that that they're you know waiting to see some relief on a solution, you know, in the business environment or elsewhere to kind of ultimately go forward with the project?

SPEAKER_00 35:16

I think it's uh I think it's market dependent, Kevin. I think uh if if if you're in a segment right now of the country that has some of these data centers that are coming in, uh you don't have time to wait. You need to get rolling right now because it's a lot of aggregate in in these centers. And and time will tell what that looks like uh three, four, five years from now. But over the next couple of years, certainly uh that that's that's a very hot, high demand market. As far as those that are in maybe more uh tepid markets, um I think you know, intr interest rates, foreign wars, gas prices, you know, those things are always gonna be floating out there. And and uh, you know, it it to a degree it depends on how much you you you pay attention to it and how much it does it really uh impact your local market. Yeah. Uh I think that's the ultimate driver of of whether folks are making a decision or not. I think what what uh producers and manufacturers alike want to see in in making strategic long-term decisions is some sort of stability or consistency, confidence uh long-term. That's what produces the best decision making.

SPEAKER_05 36:30

You kind of touched on the geopolitical environment, so maybe I'll pr press a little bit, and we're still kind of early in some of the events that are transpiring in the world. But are you getting any feedback these days, you know, the last two, three weeks in terms of what how that ultimately manifests itself into real-world decision making or not not decision making, or is it still kind of just just all systems go at this point for for your customers?

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Aaron Powell We're seeing all systems go uh as largely the feedback. I think it's a discussion topic that uh, you know, I I think any any human being with a pulse has some concerns at at what's going on. Nobody likes to see conflicts and and uh uh anything that's that's uh gonna potentially bring human safety into the equation. That's that's something that's gonna get brought up. But as far as what we're doing and what we're hearing from our customers, it's uh what's the mission need to be for the next five to ten to twenty to thirty years. And um, you know, fingers crossed, all of these conflicts we're talking about now and all these situations are are are temporary. Uh hopefully. I'm not a prog prognosticator and I'm a bit of a knucklehead when it comes to geopolitical things, but uh if we look at history, almost all of these have a beginning and an end, and hopefully all those ends come very very quickly, and uh we can just get back to the mission of trying to serve the infrastructure market better.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

Kellen, maybe just to swing back to some of the the projects you you were talking about a little bit, um you mentioned how there there's a lot of opportun there's a lot of opportunity out there that that's you know ripe for the taking, you know, plants that just may maybe are getting a little aged or or uh need to be updated, mod modernized, I suppose, you know, over the last 30 years. So that's part of the part of the opportunity there on the plant and operations front. But then, you know, just thinking more downstream in terms of the the demand center or that where the materials demand is going to be. I mean, I th originally I thought you were going to talk about the roads and bridges and kind of where we are as a state of a nation there, but you're not wrong about that the plants kind of having their own state that's in somewhat similar camp is to our roads and bridges and infrastructure, but but uh so opportunity on on the plant side to kind of up upgrade, you know, probably across the country. That's not necessarily not an opportunity for for every every state or region, but I guess in terms of what you see, you know, with roads and bridges, and you know, we had some guests in here already talking about you know infrastructure and highway funding and kind of 2026 being an interesting year on that front. Um just the idea of having that multi-year federal transportation bill in place to kind of move forward and do the capital projects you're talking about. So what are your conversations like on that front? I mean, maybe it's still preliminary, but how important is it to kind of have that multi-year bill in place that we're gonna be expiring on here in the next several months?

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Yeah, I think it's I think it's it's very important. I think uh it it most of our customers have done a good job of diversifying where they are getting revenue streams from, is where the infrastructure package is a leg on the stool. If you rely on that and you're you have a two-legged stool and you remove one of those legs or a three-legged stool and you remove one of those legs, you're falling down. But if you have a six or an eight-legged stool, one leg isn't as critical. But for the industry and what we were just talking about, with overall confidence in what we're doing and strategic decision making, the infrastructure bill I think is is very important. It's it's given everybody, most in our industry, a nice boost over the last, what's it been, four or five years now? Um I think it it we are it sure doesn't look like we're we're set up to do the same kind of bill. It might be a little bit lesser of a bill compared to what it was, but just anything that gets us um it it maintains momentum for the industry, I think is important. I think the other th the other critical piece besides the infrastructure, just the funding itself is what can we do as an industry to mitigate or reduce the permitting time that it takes, specifically for greenfield projects. We talked about dilapidated um uh sites that that just need a facelift. But there's a lot of greenfield sites that are that are gonna help producers get into some key markets and and uh be able to serve those markets better. If that process is held up by unnecessary permitting delays, I think that's something we'll that we could really all lean into as an industry and and and try to trim that down so that we're still jumping all the hurdles we need to, but how do we compress that timeline where producers can really realize a return uh more quickly?

SPEAKER_05 41:08

Sure. Kill on we kind of cover a lot of ground here, touch on a lot of different topics and subtopics, but anything else that that you're watching ahead as 2026 continues to to go forward?

SPEAKER_00 41:20

We're we're incredibly optimistic as a as a company. We're uh we're thrilled uh just year after year just to be a part of this industry. It's it's an amazing industry that we are in, and uh I think there's there's nothing but great times ahead as as long as we again continue to focus on those core principles. I think what we're seeing in the industry overall is is that uh uh our customers are looking for more partnerships than they are more vendors. And in essence, they want fewer problems. And if we can continue to collaborate as an industry, uh we're gonna get more done.

SPEAKER_05 41:58

Well, Kellen's always great to see you. Thanks for joining us here at the roundtable and enjoy your time in Florida. Yes, sir. Thanks, Kevin. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

And now a word from our sponsor. Geosonics Vibrotech has been leading the seismic industry since 1949. They are the original innovator and trusted standard for seismic monitoring in the aggregate industry. As pioneers in remote technology, they provide vibration, noise, dust, geotechnical, and environmental data you depend on. Stay connected, compliant, and informed with Geosonics Vibrotech. Visit www.geosonicsvirotech.com. Thank you to Geosonics and Vibrotech for sponsoring this episode.

SPEAKER_05 42:37

We've got Cody Laddin here from Kramer Mining Materials. Cody, great to see you again. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Really good, man. Really good. It's it's great being back down here again. And yeah, thanks for having me. You picked a great location. I'm certainly uh dressed a little bit warm for it.

SPEAKER_05 42:51

But I know I saw you walking around with a coat on. I'm like, it's 85 degrees out there, and I've got this. I don't know. Trying to maintain the look a little bit, but but uh yeah, I mean, a lot's happening out in the world. I mean, yeah, as it relates to the aggregates industry. I mean, we talked about Connexo offline a little bit, and we'll probably talk about your experience and what you saw there. But it seems like it's exciting times for the most part. Um, you know, we're gonna talk about the round table a little bit, you know, some of the topics that we chalked up tomorrow during our discussions, but but maybe you can kind of give us a preview in terms of some of the conversations we're gonna be having because we got producers, suppliers, and and others on site to kind of share what what they're seeing that hear about their observations. So so what have you been seeing since the last time we talked? I mean, what's taking center stage? What do you what are you watching?

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Yeah, it it's a good question. I mean, it you know, there's certainly center stage is a lot of sort of uh, you know, uh concern about really where where the economy's gonna go. I would say, you know, but a lot of economic uncertainty. I think that's just kind of where we're at in America right now. I think that's specific to you know aggregates or into construction materials. But it it's an interesting one. I mean, normally, you know, aggregate folks are really quick to get a crystal ball. You know, almost every owner I know or you know, chief executive I know is really quick to tell you what the next two years. Are going to look like. This has been an interesting time in my 20 years because it's a time where folks are like, man, I don't know. Right? Could be really good, could be really bad. But um, I mean, I I live through the global financial crisis and aggregate. It's not, it's not like that. You know, it's it's not, you know, really kind of dreary and dark conversations. It's more of, yeah, who knows?

SPEAKER_05 44:21

You know, it it's we just don't know. Yeah. Waiting on some answers to some big questions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:26

Yeah. That was kind of my feeling going into Con Expo, which was just a few weeks ago, Cody. You know, I felt like, man, I maybe for the first time or one of the first few times in my career, because I've been in the industry for, I guess, 14 years in April. Yeah. And uh feel like I usually have a beat on it, but I almost felt a little lost. Like maybe there were some elements coming into the equation that I just that we hadn't seen before, and there are enough of them that started to put some doubt into my mind. Um, but went to Con Expo, you know, just talking to guys, you know, that kind of helps me build a picture on where we are. And it still seems like there's there's a lot of optimism and a lot of energy. Guys are bullish. Um, but they're they're watching. I mean, they're keeping tabs on things, and I think people aren't necessarily trying to panic. Is that a fair assessment? And and where am I wrong, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 45:09

No, I think it's a fair assessment. I you know, I think a lot of what you get kind of you know caught up into um, you know, is you kind of get caught up into like the regular economy or into like, you know, really the fact that we're all kind of like told that aggregates and mining is is cyclical. And and I do think from an economic standpoint it's cyclical. However, um, you know, data goes back on volumes through um I'm gonna get this acronym wrong. What is it? USGS. I mean that goes back to the 1900s. Uh volumes have only dipped in aggregates two times. One was during ROTC, which is post-Cold War, that was a crisis. Right. And the second time was during the global financial crisis, and then dipped one a year.

unknown 45:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

And that's aggregate volumes overall throughout the US. So at the end of the day, I mean, when we have data like that over 100 years supporting consistent growth of aggregates, I mean, unless we have a legitimate economic crisis come up, and frankly, we did really well during COVID, I'm I'm not too concerned, you know. I I just think it's again kind of, you know, folks kind of getting quick to bring out the crystal balls and sort of make a quick prediction. But you know, I try to focus just more on the market and what's out there. Sure.

SPEAKER_05 46:07

So to your point on the volumes, Cody, maybe just because I'm in the news business, you know, Pitt and Cory, we keep tabs of those USGS outputs, the quarterly statistics, volumes on Crushstone, Sand and Gravel. And you know, maybe I was making too big a deal out of it because it had been a while, and then we had six quarters in a row there at a point where of of declines, and they weren't massive. I mean, we're talking about single-digit quarter over quarter declines or quarterly declines. And uh now we've seen two quarterly quarters in a row of USGS putting out there that the volumes are getting back up there. So um yeah, I mean, it still seems like there's business to be had. I mean, there's growth being achieved in different ways. You know, we're talking about pricing and and just stricter business management, cost management. I feel like that's the narrative we see in a lot of those public producer reports, and that's what they're talking about. Um, you know, in your area of the of the industry, you know, you're kind of a different sort of producer in terms of model, but you know, is that sort of what you're trying to practice these days as well? You mean more like uh like pricing excellence or yeah, you know, just being a little bit tighter, trying to achieve more efficiencies. I feel like just whether it's on the operational front or or anywhere in your operation, I feel like efficiency. I know it sounds simple and plain and maybe silly because we should always be striving to be efficient or the most efficient, but I feel like I hear that more and more producers trying to pursue that.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

I mean, my take on that, it it's a great question. My take on efficiency is um we spent a lot of time in this industry. Um, and frankly, I'm second generation. I was frankly you know raised in this environment because my household was just basically a you know component of the industry. Um we spent a lot of time with not a whole lot of folks solving a lot of problems. Right. So you're kind of consistently in this world where you're just you're just always putting out fires. And I think that's one thing I got you know pretty good at kind of being raised by an aggregates professional was you know, look, you're gonna have eight fires, but you need to pick out which one is you know the most immediate and the most urgent, which one's gonna burn your house down, right? So I think we're so caught up in that, you know, when things are good, especially when we have any kind of residential incline or any kind of like manufacturing incline like we've had with data centers. I think we get so wrapped up in that that we we miss out. We don't have the manpower or the bandwidth to work on operational efficiency. So I think when things tune down a little bit, it lets us really kind of probably get to a really healthy point because it's really hard to work on your operational efficiency when you're running two shifts, you know, and and you're doing everything you can to keep material on the ground. That's a really hard time to revamp your efficiency.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

Yeah. That's kind of where we've been for a while as an industry. You're right. Yeah. Um, I mean, you mentioned a couple of construction markets there, you know, talk about the data centers and residential. Um, I know all aggregates are kind of local or regional at least. Um what are you seeing? You know, if you want to share some insights in terms of your own markets or just nationally, um, you know, there's a lot of excitement there on the data center front. There's a lot of you know activity there, a lot of demand for aggregates supporting that. Um, and I think residential, you know, you touched on briefly, but that's just kind of the wild card we're waiting and seeing there still. But but uh still I don't think we have any immediate answers coming either.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

No, uh you know, I think the industry has shifted a little bit, at least in my time in it, from being, you know, either I don't want to say residentially driven, but residentially focused, right? Um that was kind of like whenever you put together year-ended reports, whenever you kind of put together your management notes, you would talk a lot about residential growth. Housing starts was usually the top of your first slide was housing starts. Doesn't matter if you had a good year or bad year, you're gonna talk about housing starts. I think the reality of the industry is that we've pulled more towards you know really infrastructure. And I think it was that's really a demand-based criteria. I mean, I I checked, you know, so I'd sound smart during this podcast, but uh you know, the ASCE has us at I think a D plus right now as of 2025. I mean, I I I think the last uh well, the first interview I've ever done with you, I think I said D, D minus. We we haven't really made a lot of improvements.

SPEAKER_05 49:41

Hey, we're getting a little better now. No, I know.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Yeah. But that's demand, right? So infrastructure demand is is for me, I think that's where at least our our focus is shifting a good bit. When residential's not there and frankly just you know forcing us to run the plan as much as we possibly can, and demand is overwhelming. Um, we're very reactionary, but when we get back to more of like, you know, really kind of the you know, the bread and butter, the the the foundation or the infrastructure, if you will, of aggregates. I do think it's infrastructure. You know, I think that's that's that's the key demand point. That's consistently going up. I uh George Redden had a really, really great presentation last year at the Pitt and Corey round table where he laid out how often uh we did uh how the federal government put together um you know infrastructure spending programs. And since 1991, there's only been a two-year gap. That's that's it. Yeah. Right. So and they've all gone it, they've all gone up, right? Because the demand's high, so the supply is the money coming up.

SPEAKER_05 50:33

It has to, yeah. Inflation's been been rampant. So the next one better be ramp, you know, reflective of some of that as well. But yeah, but uh no, I think you're right about infrastructure, and you know, maybe I'll kind of move us into the highway funding front a little bit. We're gonna be talking about IIJA kind of looking back and looking ahead because we're coming up on a September 30th expiration deadline for that five-year multi-year service transportation infrastructure bill. So um, you know, you talked about infrastructure kind of coming more to the forefront and us really focusing on that as an industry. And I think that's really kind of carried the day here for the last five years with IIJA, but we're kind of at this interesting moment in our politics and in our history. And are we gonna have another one of those George Redden moments that you mentioned? Yeah, yeah. Or are we gonna have another IIJA coming behind that? And if we do, are we gonna have what kind of money is gonna be behind it?

SPEAKER_02 51:22

I I I think it's you know, I wouldn't say almost certain, but I mean that that's what the trend says. I think we've been through six infrastructure bills since the since '91. Sounds about right. It it it's interesting because they're all like some different variation of ICE T. Yeah. I C T E A I S C All acronyms, yeah. Being a southern ICT hit, you know, hits for me. Yeah. But um, no, I I at the end of the day, if the demands there, if the ASCE is saying that we're currently at a C, or I'm sorry, at a D plus, and I think bridges are at a C, roads are at a D plus. Well, that's you know, then really the onus is on the government at that point to solve that problem, right? And they're not gonna solve that problem with less spending, right? Especially with the inflationary costs that have gone up in construction materials, they're gonna have to solve it with more spending. So I I I feel pretty confident in infrastructure. I'd bet on that way before I bet on a residential recovery. I'd you know, I don't have a crystal ball that can tell you when we're gonna have a residential recovery.

SPEAKER_05 52:10

Oh yeah. Are you are you confident we're gonna have some sort of new bill come forward in in September or ahead of September in that deadline?

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Or you know, I the one data point that I'll go back to is um, you know, it feels like Trump has pushed uh legislative bills like on a very aggressive pace. So I would normally say, well, that takes a lot of time. So if we're not hearing about it now, that's gonna be a next year deal. Um I do think when you kind of go back, and it's it's not the best data point, but it is an effective one. But if you kind of go back to tariffs, I mean they push out legislation or you know, really their bill. Um, or I guess really it's not necessarily their bill, but their uh their notice very quickly. You know, they had math together for they had everything kind of calculated pretty quickly. Um I just more or less see him as somebody that's gonna hurry up and get to the solution and kind of think through all the variables. And frankly, on an infrastructure bill, I I I I I I could see him putting something like that together very quickly. Sure.

SPEAKER_05 53:03

So let's switch gears a little bit and talk about what's happening on the equipment and technology front, Cody. You know, you talked about operational efficiency and how maybe there's more time or there's opportunity for producers to go about and pursue that. We touched on con Expo, Con Ag. I mean, I know you had some had some team members out there looking for things, and sure you don't want to put everything out there for the entire industry, you know, nationwide to know what you guys guys are doing and zeroing in on. But but I guess what what's trending, what's of interest, um, where are the loose ends that can be can be buttoned up on the operations front here in 2026?

SPEAKER_02 53:34

Yeah, for us it's been kind of going back to procurement and then um really bringing in uh really you know, really our our our our best um operations folks that we can. And and frankly, it's been it's been benchmarking, it's been a big one for us. Like we brought in uh team Tim Theobald, I think he's on your panel uh tomorrow or the next day. I mean, he's phenomenal. He's a second generation aggregate guy, spent you know, 20 plus years at Vulcan, and then um you know did quarry audits for Heidelberg. Um so bringing in like that level of expertise and just kind of saying, all right, you know, take a totally different look at what we're doing here and what can we do better, right? Um that was that was huge for us. Just just really kind of doing that. And then we we we took a trip to Luxstone, I think, late in the year last year, looked at some of their quarries and just had some friendly benchmarking and you know, kind of you know, sat down afterwards, had really, really good kind of post-mortem discussions on like let's get creative, what can we apply, what can we do differently. And um, you know, just having really, really honest conversations with yourselves after kind of looking at best and practice examples and after kind of bringing on either consultants or employees that know best practices.

SPEAKER_05 54:34

Sure. Cody, I know mergers and acquisitions are near and dear to your heart, so I wanted to just ask you about that. I feel I feel like you're you're almost like a student of the art of the MA in a way, just because we've had conversations and you do have very interesting insights. And you know, we saw some sizable deals transpire in 2025, and you know, Rogers Group, for example, this year has already made a big deal, um, or a pretty good sized deal. And and I I guess what are you watching on on that front? Because I know it's again near and dear to your heart.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

No, I mean, I I think probably the best thing I could say that might be that might be different for some of your you know, some of your readers and listeners to hear is you know, I know it feels like we're fully consolidated, there's no more deals left. But if you were to ask uh, you know, like Bain, you know, who actually does analysis on on different segments, or like an equity analyst, like how consolidated is the agarist industry? We're not consolidated, we're considered fragmented from that perspective. From like a professional viewing industry perspective, where you know, I think Vulcan and Martin are both somewhere around uh between 10 to 15 percent of the you know total agri production. That's not a consolidated uh market by any means. I mean, you get into like medical devices, you have four, you know, four companies that run the whole industry, right? That's consolidated.

SPEAKER_05 55:40

Sure, that's in perspective there, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

So there are plenty of, you know, there's plenty of deals out there. Um and the beauty of that is is you know, the pure aggregate companies like Vulcan and Martin, their their trading multiples keep going higher and higher, their valuations are higher, which means technically they can pay more. Right. So you get a lot of owners that will kind of hold out for like a magic number. Um, you know, we're in Naples. I mean, YoungQuist was one of those, you know, companies, and and Martin bought them, I believe, two years ago. Um my first job was at YoungQuist. But that was a group that we all just you know always kind of heard, well, there's a magic number. We'll see if anyone ever hits it. Well, Martin hit it, you know, two years ago. So we'll keep seeing that ceiling go up, and then more and more and more of those companies that will never sell, right? Well, you know, there'll be a number that uh that that maybe gets them to kind of change their mind a little bit. Yeah but but overall, I mean we're we're certainly not a consolidated industry yet. There's still plenty of room to go. And then frankly, uh when you kind of go down the MA path, the next you know strategy of growth is once you fully consolidate, you go upstream or downstream. It's like the the MA doesn't stop there.

SPEAKER_05 56:37

Right, right. Right. You go where you can, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:40

Yeah. So well I'm asking you for your takes on a lot of different things across the industry. What's happening at Kramer mining mining these days that's that's of note? I mean any interesting going on, any projects? What's the year ahead look like?

SPEAKER_02 56:51

Yeah, we're it it's been great. You know, we initially came on and um, you know, the board directors hired me with a task of of going out there and kind of growing by acquisition right away. And um, you know, we actually had a board member uh you know pass away at a young age. We just didn't expect it. And it kind of you know brought us all back to the strategy board a little bit, and we said, all right, well, you know, we really have a great platform here to kind of have a case study. So, you know, I I had a sales background, you know, you know, very little short period in operations, but mostly a sales background before I got into MA. And um, so I brought a best, you know, several like kind of best practices into the sales side. We work with a consultant to kind of come up with some you know really in-house pricing tools that we use. And then um, you know, then the next step in the process is really kind of finding like, you know, let's say Tim and and really supercharging the operations and the operational excellence side, and then you know, somebody that you know really well, Colin Orton, is now actually our full-time CFO. So we brought in him and we kind of just built out a really strong team of folks that really knew their independent areas, and um, and really we built up a case study. We we all went to work in our independent areas and we came out of it with really, really great results. So the next step for us, and we're pretty far along this process. I'm hoping we'll have an announcement this year for us to really, you know, uh partner up with like a financial growth partner and then go out there and do acquisitions. And the better part about that is instead of saying, well, you should invest in us and our team, trust us, we all have you know really great backgrounds, it's like, well, no, just look at the results, you know, and we can go do more of that and we can kind of supercharge those things with with more capital kind of coming into business.

SPEAKER_05 58:16

So you have to keep us posted on on how that all that evolves this year, Cody. I look forward to hearing more from you and really appreciate getting together and sharing your your perspective as as always. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

I appreciate you having me.

SPEAKER_05 58:27

Good to see you. Yeah, good seeing you too. Well, hey, we've got Michael Speech here from Kemper Group. Michael, the first time I'm meeting you. It's great to great to see you and visit with you.

SPEAKER_03 58:34

Yeah, happy to be here. I've uh I've long watched these podcasts from afar, and I'm glad to be able to contribute today. So thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_05 58:41

For sure. Well, interesting times, as always, for the aggregates industry. I mean, you know, you mentioned you've been with Kemper for for a bit now and with the industry for for I guess six years.

SPEAKER_03 58:50

So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:51

So you've kind of got a beat on things. I mean, we were originally going to visit the Pitting Courtney Roundtable in January, and even since then, some things have changed in the world. But at the same end of the day, I mean, it seems like people are are very confident and optimistic about where the industry is and where the industry is headed. So I guess from your seat, Mike, at at Kemper, what are you hearing? What are you seeing? And I guess what's the mood out there these days?

SPEAKER_03 59:12

I'd resonate the sentiment that there's a lot of optimism. You know, we've we set some challenging goals going into the year, and uh fortunate to say through the first quarter, we've we've executed upon what we've wanted, and producers are giving us strong feedback, and we've got some opportunities to showcase our abilities and compete for those opportunities. So it's been fun and uh quarters change rapidly, and we'll see what the following uh quarters have to bring for us up.

SPEAKER_05 59:38

Yeah. No, it's kind of wild. We're already looking ahead, second quarter here, spring production season, things are ramp up nationwide, especially in the north here, where you know things were it was cold in certain parts and a long winter for everybody. But uh you kind of mentioned the first quarter a little bit, and we've got three months under our belt at this stage. I mean, what what surprised you did anything surprise you, or is it just kind of more of the same of the aggregate industry kind of exuding strength?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

Yeah, so I'd say uh I'm more of a pessimist or cautious optimist. So going into the year with challenging goals, uh uh what I would say is that we've I was surprised to see the confidence that came out of producers and suppliers, manufacturers alike. Uh it's obviously great for all of us involved and uh it's up to all of us to keep it going.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:21

What are some of the maybe that's some of the pain points or or I guess we were at Con Expo recently, you know, you I'm sure you're regularly engaging your customers. I guess I guess what's maybe holding them back at this stage when they're thinking about their next project?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

For me and us at ConExpo, what we saw was a lot of people who are are getting ready to take that next step, whether that's efficiencies, it's capex, it's uh it's maintenance improvements, what have you. So the show for us seemed to serve as means of these producers getting an opportunity to see it all uh at one show and take it back offline with their teams and see what see what's right for them uh moving forward and engage the likes of ourselves when they're ready.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:01

Mike, did you guys have expectations going to Con Expo? You know, thinking, okay, it's gonna be uh you know a good show, an okay show. And then I guess what was your takeaway as you guys were there? I don't know if you're there the entire five-day show, but but uh a lot of a lot of energy coming out of it. Um even for me, I was kind of a little unsure of where we were as industry kind of going into it. I just wanted to kind of get my finger on the pulse of where we are, and con expo is always a good barometer of that, but but just your expectations going in and and kind of how you felt going out. Did things change a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:29

Um I think going into it, we we brought a bunch of people to the show. We the manufacturers we represent, we're all over the place, so we wanted to make sure we engaged them along the way. And uh what I'd say is kind of exposed the optimism exuded by manufacturers who've spent a long time developing their latest products, their innovative products. Uh, and I think that resonated with us a lot from the sense that that it gave us something to get really excited about. Uh that paired with producer optimism heading into the rest of the year, I think set us up for a good stage. Uh, but going into it, uh, it's a fun show. It's it's a lot. Uh there's a lot to see. There's a lot of uh people that we work with that that attend and it's hard to see all of them. So that can be uh kind of a defeating task of an Outlook sometimes. But I I'd say it was it was really successful. Uh probably just got a little bit wrapped up with the follow-up before heading down here. So yeah. Yeah. I'd say it was strong.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:29

How about you know, Connexpo obviously is kind of the latest wave, introduces the next generation of equipment and technology. I feel like as a magazine here at Pitt and Quarry, we're talking about technology all the time. We're gonna be talking about it at the round table and it's never going to stop. I mean, it's it's that's kind of what what's really changing about the industry is the technology. I mean, but maybe just to put a question to you, you know, at Kemper, how how is I guess I wonder your perspective on how as a dealer, how producers are seizing what's available or not, or is there some hesitancy to kind of go after what's showing up at Con Expo these days or or not? Um I guess do you have a feeling or a take on it?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

I'd say it could be overwhelming at times, like the the magnitude of how much new and innovative products there are to see. I I I would say it's a lot. It's a lot for us. It's got to be a lot for them as they look to weigh their decisions on how they want to move forward. Uh, but the innovation is abundant. It was really exciting to see. I saw a couple products that were, you know, taken back offline and worked with the team to start to build them into our portfolio of offerings. And uh, but yeah, I I would say that the opportunity for for anybody, the show, at least Con Ag can be quite overwhelming for how much there is to see and get into.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:38

Yeah. From a technology standpoint, I I suppose maybe I'm generalizing when I say, well, maybe some producers are hesitant to get in. Um, because there's a lot there, like you said. But as a dealer, you know, the industry is changing too. How challenging is it for dealers to kind of keep up or you know, a Kemper to kind of keep up with with such a rapidly changing landscape?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Aaron Powell Well, I mentioned for producers it's a lot to to sink your teeth into. And for us as a dealer, it certainly is as well. You know, who we choose to partner with along the way, especially in the field of technology, where uh I think there's no shortage of manufacturers who have their own versions of technology, a lot of monitoring systems out there, and uh some further along than others. But what I'd say is a lot of them don't talk, and so that's challenging for us as a dealer uh in doing our due diligence to make sure that whatever monitoring type system or new technology we introduced uh to our producers is that it comprehensively covers as much as it can. Uh, but I'd say the good news with some of these monitoring systems we've been looking at and implementing is that they're low cost. Uh it's something that'll help get the necessary feedback from ourselves, the producer level, bring it back to them to where they can take it offline and and further develop their own product for the better of the industry.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:54

Mike, if I can press you a little bit, you know, if you don't want to answer, it's fine, not a problem. But if I can press you a little bit, you know, just wondering in terms of like capital projects out there, you know, it's it's springtime. I mean, everyone's trying to get get up and and running uh at this stage in the more northern climates. I guess what's the activity level like right now from your seat at Kemper?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:13

Uh it's it's controlled chaos. We're we're fortunate to have a good backlog going into the year to carry us through the rest of the year, arguably. Uh we're our team is working diligently on new projects by the day. Uh, but it it's controlled chaos. You know, we've got our hands full and that's a good problem to have, and we're thankful for it all. Uh, but it's I I'd say it's it's a it resonates the optimism that's out there. And what I'd also say is that you know our team has has heated the call of meeting producers' expectations to where we've earned that works.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:44

Yeah. And maybe just to kind of put a final question too. You know, you mentioned before we turned the camera on just about you've been in the industry for six years. I mean, yeah, I feel like it's it's been an interesting six years for sure. I mean, you've kind of come in since since the COVID time, really. Absolutely. Just I'm curious, you know, from your seat is some Who didn't have that pre-COVID perspective on the industry? You know, how has the industry fared in your time? I mean, how has how has it evolved?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:07

Any thoughts or Yeah, I mean, I suppose for myself, I mean, I probably couldn't have joined at a more tumultuous time. And I suppose tumultuous times are seemingly all I've known since joining the industry. And that's probably for the betterment of myself as a leader at Kemper. Uh but it's it's been a really challenging opportunity, and I've been fortunate to work with some great producers who, you know, were able to give me an opportunity to showcase my abilities and expand upon them with them, with others. And uh it's I've been well received to the industry, and I'm I'm thankful to give back to it as much as I possibly can. So, but certainly an interesting six years.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:44

Yeah. Well, Mike, I appreciate you spending some time with us, sharing some insights, and it's great to meet me. I hope you have a great uh great time with us here in Florida.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:52

Yeah, thanks for having us. And I'm again, I'm glad to contribute after being a uh a bystander for so long.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:58

Well, thanks again to Cody Ladd, Ross Duff, Kellen Moylan, and Michael Speech. It was great to have those guys here with us at the La Playa Beach and Golf Resort in Naples. We also had a whole slew of other folks join me in the uh one of the conference rooms here. So we're hoping to put some other sounds out there for you in the the weeks and months to come on on Drilling Deeper and well some shorter cuts that our digital media specialist, Mason Copy, will be cutting for Pit and Quarry online consumption. So thanks again to our guests, and thanks to everybody who joined us here at LaPly to share their exclusive thoughts and insights with with Pit and Quarry this week. So, what's next on Drilling Deeper? Jack Kapanski sat down with one of our supplier partners at Con Expo Conag, Haver and Boker Niagara. Jack, give us a little preview of what's to come on the show.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:45

Yeah, I had a really good conversation with uh Karen Thompson, president of Haver and Boker Niagara. We talked about how producers can elevate uh screening efficiency, reduce downtime, and make more informed decisions on their operation. Uh, we talked about modern diagnostic tools such as vibration analysis and condition monitoring, as well as long-proven advantages of eccentric screening technology. Uh, we also focused on practical insights, real operational challenges, and actionable takeaways. Um, and to to sort of give a clear understanding of how smarter screening maintenance can design, or how smarter screen maintenance and design uh can improve overall productivity. So uh, you know, we we we we got into a lot of different uh a lot of different topics and uh Karen Karen's always a great guest. She's a she's a real pro, so uh you're not gonna want to miss that episode with Karen Thompson coming in a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:37

We'll look forward to that, Jack. And it's somewhat sad here. We're gonna go back to Cleveland, although I think it's it's sun is shining today. It might be 70 degrees this week, but it's always hard to leave the 85 degrees and the sunshine here in Florida. But it is. But we'll have another Pit and Quarry Roundtable and conference to come in 2027. We don't have the details on that just yet, but any producers interested, certainly encourage you to check out our dedicated website, pit and quarryroundtable.com. That'll kind of get you to more detail on what this round table is all about if you're not familiar. And and again, just want to thank everybody who made the 2026 edition possible. And it was a great event. We had great producers, suppliers, and and uh speakers this year, just made for another great event. And yeah, I'm super super excited to kind of unpack the rest of the content that we captured and share with our listeners out there in the weeks ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:22

Yeah, and shout out to Mason behind the camera for filming all these interviews. Mason, first round table. Well done. Hopefully, uh hopefully we didn't scare you off for uh for the 2027 edition. But yeah, no, like you said, just thanks to everyone who who attended and who and who made this a really special event. Looking forward to next year. Well, that was episode 64, everybody. We'll see you in another couple weeks. See ya.