Is your child displaying defiance or over-compliance? Let's explore this together as we navigate the often misunderstood concept of 'felt safety' in children. Our Vice President of Training and Intervention, Suzanne Wright, along with Senior Chaplain Mike Wilhelm and Sam Serna Assistant Administrator of Residential Programs, delve deep into personal experiences and professional insights on the critical importance of safety when dealing with kids, particularly those in distress.
In a riveting discussion, we dissect the intricate nature of safety and its diverse interpretations, bringing to light the various manifestations of fear in children, and how you as a caregiver can recognize and respond to them effectively. Creating a foundation for a healthier and safer environment doesn't have to be daunting, as we share tactics and real-world examples to help you better comprehend and respond to your child’s needs. Whether it's understanding the nuances of eye contact and physical engagement or recognizing the value of caregiver safety, tune in for an enlightening conversation that might just revolutionize how you approach safety with your children.
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For More Information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch: https://www.calfarley.org/
Is your child displaying defiance or over-compliance? Let's explore this together as we navigate the often misunderstood concept of 'felt safety' in children. Our Vice President of Training and Intervention, Suzanne Wright, along with Senior Chaplain Mike Wilhelm and Sam Serna Assistant Administrator of Residential Programs, delve deep into personal experiences and professional insights on the critical importance of safety when dealing with kids, particularly those in distress.
In a riveting discussion, we dissect the intricate nature of safety and its diverse interpretations, bringing to light the various manifestations of fear in children, and how you as a caregiver can recognize and respond to them effectively. Creating a foundation for a healthier and safer environment doesn't have to be daunting, as we share tactics and real-world examples to help you better comprehend and respond to your child’s needs. Whether it's understanding the nuances of eye contact and physical engagement or recognizing the value of caregiver safety, tune in for an enlightening conversation that might just revolutionize how you approach safety with your children.
To Donate: https://secure.calfarley.org/site/Donation2?3358.donation=form1&df_id=3358&mfc_pref=T
To Apply: https://apply.workable.com/cal-farleys-boys-ranch/j/25E1226091/
For More Information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch: https://www.calfarley.org/
Music: "Shine" -Newsboys CCS License No. 9402
Speaker 1:
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience and professional training Cal Farlies Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, cal Farlies staff development coordinator, joshua Sprock.
Speaker 2:
Welcome everyone and thank you for joining us today as we discuss the core of our model of leadership and service safety. Today I'm joined by Suzanne Wright, our vice president of training and intervention.
Speaker 3:
Good morning Josh.
Speaker 2:
Mike Wilhelm, our senior chaplain. Good morning, josh. And Sam Cernna, the assistant administrator of residential programs. Hi, josh. Alright, today we are going to be talking about safety and, as you know, we do a question of the day every week to kind of get us kicked off. So you guys ready for our hard-hitting, deep question.
Speaker 3:
Yes, fire away.
Speaker 2:
Alright. So today's question of the day is tell us about a time that you think is funny. Maybe now, but you were really, really scared when it happened. I can go first A couple years ago I was going on a jeep trip with my father-in-law and we were up in the mountains of Colorado and I never really thought I was scared of heights and we were driving and all of a sudden I look over the side of the cliff and it is straight down and I don't know how far it was maybe 10,000 million feet but all of a sudden the world started spinning and I went into full panic mode and I curled up in a ball on the floor of my father-in-law's jeep Not really the greatest look you want to have right in front of your father-in-law Well, I have a similar story.
Speaker 4:
I am also afraid of heights and I decided to go hiking in Utah. My friend told me we're going to a cave.
Speaker 4:
I didn't realize the cave was at the top of a mountain that we had to walk. They didn't have rails on the path and I remember walking along that path and as I got higher I was above trees and I just started to crouch and kind of walk almost on my knees and with my hand against the opposite wall. But when traffic would come, when people would walk by me, I would literally curled up into a ball and continue to try to walk and I was so afraid if somebody touched me I was going to just fall off the side of this thing. And looking back now I think it's funny because I actually ended up running down that thing afterwards, so it's really funny.
Speaker 3:
I can't really think of a time that I was scared that I now think is funny. I hate to be scared. I really don't like to be scared. So if I was scared it's still not funny. So ask me again in another five or ten years, and maybe then I could find a humor but not yet.
Speaker 5:
Fair enough. One of my top would be oh, I was in my early 20s and I was penning some cattle up in this pasture that had a lot of timber and we had a wing fence and we had very wild cattle. And I was going after these cattle, full boar, on this horse, looking back at the other ones to see if they had broken from the group, and when I turned around there was oak trees in this particular pasture. I turned around and there is a. I'm ready to crash into an oak tree and be clotheslined and no horse was going full boar. And I remember they talk about your life flashing before your eyes and this was.
Speaker 5:
I mean, this was a big tree lamb and I thought I'm gonna die and I just thought I wonder how my life has been and just had this little moment and bam crash into the limb and it happened to be Rotten and hollowed out from the inside from whatever bugs or something and it just smashed it into smithereens. But that was one of the most scared times in that whole moment that I've ever been, so Survived. Right, I'm okay yeah.
Speaker 2:
All right, that's great. So For those of you who listened to our show, last week, we gave you a quick overview of boys ranches model of leadership and service. Starting with today's episode and continuing over the next several weeks, we're gonna cover each part of that model in a greater detail. So let's start with the core of our model, which is safety. So, first thing, I want to ask you guys, what is safety and why is it such an important concept to understand when it comes to helping kids, especially when they're struggling?
Speaker 3:
I think safety is a feeling of peace and calmness and security. Your brain's number one job is to keep you safe. It's not to think, it's not to problem-solve, it is to keep you safe. And so, whether you are aware of this or not, your brain is always working in the background to ensure your safety, and and that's the foundation of our model because until your brain Determines that it's safe, it really can't focus on anything else.
Speaker 4:
You know, I agree, suzanne, and one of the things that people forget is that you know, we're all have fear response when, when we are scared and one of those is is freezing there's flight and there's fight. And so sometimes, when kids are not feeling safe, that's when you're seeing behaviors, you're seeing things that you might not normally see, or they're in this constant state. Some kids very really struggle at school when they're feeling inadequate, because there's all kinds of safety there's there's safety of not being accepted in your groups, so those things. It's why it's important for caregivers to understand that it, just because a kid is acting out, doesn't always mean it's because they want to, is sometimes they are, they are stuck in an unsafe place.
Speaker 3:
I think that's a really good point, sam, and as the podcast goes on, we'll talk about a lot of what you just mentioned in more detail.
Speaker 5:
Yeah, and piggybacking on what Sam said, from a to talk in spiritual terms, what we want for for ourselves and for our loved ones is, as the Bible would call repentance the Greek words metanoia and what it is is. It's a real change of being a, a moral change, an interior change, and there's a big learning aspect to that. And we can't learn when we're scared and we don't. We don't change for the good when we're scared. When we're scared, we go to our default and we're reactionary. So this is huge. So, josh, appreciate the topic today.
Speaker 2:
I so what does it look like when kids feel unsafe?
Speaker 4:
What's kind of like what I said earlier. It can look like many things. I remember I used to be in band and there was times when I didn't practice or I didn't do so well and I was very anxious about the class and performing in front of my peers, and so I remember sometimes the instructor would be upset with me and I would smile and I would. I would just smile because I didn't know what else to do, I didn't know why I was even doing it, and he would get upset with me. He would say why are you laughing? This isn't funny, I'm being serious, and I couldn't do anything but kind of chuckle and keep smiling, which made him matter and matter. So it's one of the things people need to understand is sometimes you go to a default. That's a pacifying behavior, to to try to soothe the people around you when you smile, and they've seen it as threat and disrespect, and so it's important for adults to remember that sometimes kids are doing things. They don't really understand what they're doing.
Speaker 3:
I think that's a great example. I think also, sometimes we see what looks like defiance, right. So, for example, if if I don't feel very confident in my ability to do math and a teacher asked me to go complete a math problem on the board in front of the class, all of my fears and insecurities come out and I want to do anything but be embarrassed in front of my peers. And so I refuse to do that and my intent is to protect myself. But to an adult, to my teacher, that looks like defiance and disobedience, and so I think that that is also a common misunderstanding. When we see a child who's defiant, that they're probably trying to keep themselves safe. And and when we think of safety, it's not just physical safety, right, it's emotional safety, psychological safety, sometimes spiritual safety, and so, again, our brain is doing whatever it can think of in order to keep us safe, but sometimes adults misinterpret that.
Speaker 5:
Yeah, that's. Don't you think that? That's why sometimes I say a kid will run out and that they're not feeling safe, but on the other hand, as an adult, that's feeling safe. In that moment we misread the behavior and we'll assume it's defiance and sometimes it might be defiant. Sometimes it might be that they're feeling unsafe. Or even I found sometimes, when kids will maybe start cussing in an inappropriate setting, that okay, that might be defiance and that's how I will tend to to read it, but mistakenly. When actually, sometimes, if a kid's in a setting that's unfamiliar, they're feeling inadequate, they're not feeling safe, and that might be a reaction in that moment as well, don't you think?
Speaker 3:
I agree with that.
Speaker 4:
For sure. You know I wanted to also talk. A counter to Suzanne's point was sometimes we also see over-compliance, a child just going to go out of their way to be compliant, and adults love that stuff. But sometimes it's very difficult to see what's underneath when they're just being compliant. And again, we like those things because you're getting what you want as an adult, but we're completely missing what's going on. And sometimes you find that when the child finally gets in trouble for some reason, you might get an explosion or you might get a different kind of reaction or a freeze. And you know it's really important to consider those things that everybody's got a different response. Every child's going to have a different response based on their template and their early caregiving.
Speaker 5:
That's a great example. We'll call that a good kid, won't we? Because we like to label kids. But then, as soon as that kid is starting to feel safe and then some of that stuff starts to come out, we start to wonder what's going wrong the kids going backwards, when actually that might be progress. Is that what you're saying, sam? Yeah, I believe so.
Speaker 2:
So I've also heard the concept of felt safety. Can you explain to me what that is and why it's so important, and how that's different to just being safe?
Speaker 3:
So felt safety is a concept that we talk about often on our campus. It's one thing for me to interact with a brand new resident and say welcome, you're safe. Right now I may feel confident that that child will be cared for and safe in our environment. But that child doesn't know me, they don't know our schedule, they don't know our routine, they don't know the staff or the other kids. And so felt safety means that safety doesn't count until the child can identify that he or she feels safe, and that's a process. For some children that may be fairly quickly, a matter of weeks. For other children, that may take months or years, depending on their past experiences and relationships with adults, as well as their ability to form relationships here on our campus.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, well said and you want a good example of health. Safety is sometimes we get children who are often don't want to go to bed at night and we have a hard time at night. You know the staff knows the child is safe. Child feels unsafe and I remember we, my wife and I, had to sometimes spend an hour or so trying to help a young lady feel okay with being in her room and it's her first night in a new place and we know she's safe and there's no way to convince her that she is. She felt unsafe in that this new roommate is here, this new place. It's dark, Probably some sounds at night. I'm not out there at night, but I imagine there's creaking in the. It's a whole new place and so that's what a good example of feeling safe or not feeling safe when you actually are you know that with what you just said, sam, there was a years ago we had a.
Speaker 5:
There was a resident here who came from quite a ways, quite a ways away and was had a hard time here, had a great deal of struggle and was difficult for staff to connect with, difficult to connect with other peers, had a very unfortunate background, one of the things that when I tried to connect with this this friend was really creeped out by our chapel bells and we used to have the chapel bells.
Speaker 5:
They'd play every hour and did it was just part of the sounds on the campus and we just while we're used to it, most of us, it's a comforting and nostalgic and this why do you have those, sir? And I finally figured out, thanks to probably our training room here, that that really was. That was a reminder, one that he was not at home and it was tapping into the felt safety thing, did not feel safe and it was creepy to this child. So we rode our bikes up one day and I said tell you what, come on. And we went in the back and I showed him where the bells were and the computer that ran them and said we're going to unplug these. And we unplugged them and we became kind of closer friends through that. But I learned a lot through that friend and through our training room around this.
Speaker 3:
You know, mike, that is a great example of being curious about the need expressed by the behavior, which is something that we will talk about over and over again, I'm sure, on our podcast. But we always want to be when we see behavior or we hear a statement like, hey, those bells are creepy, for us to be curious about. You know, what experiences has that child had that lead that child to that conclusion? Right, but be curious and then try to make that need and what is simple, profound thing that you did right, we can easily unplug those bells and they're not so important to us that it overrides ensuring that a child feels safe and that that happens frequently. Right, as adults, we make a decision oh, it's not that big a thing, or he'll get used to it. But instead you took him seriously, you were curious and then you, you met that need and that is a wonderful, wonderful story. Thank you for sharing that well.
Speaker 5:
I would like to say as a pioneer in that, but I would be one that would fall into the camp of most adults are gonna be okay, he needs to get over it. We'd either blow it off or maybe even be critical of him for complaining and not taking seriously. But I would be right in with that camp had I not really been taught by young friends like him and our training room here yeah, and also.
Speaker 4:
So another part of the question you had there, josh, was why is it important? It's important because if people do not feel safe, they can't learn, they can't grow, they almost get stuck in their state, and so, again, we talked about behaviors and all all those things that come along with not feeling safe.
Speaker 4:
It's important because a person can grow in a state of fear they can't grow, and so if they're not, if they don't feel safe, it doesn't matter. If they're actually safe, you are there, will always be in this perpetual state and I believe fail safety can be fixed, maybe with time or if, like y'all said. I think that was a great example of being curious and looking at how can I help them feel better, feel safer. So I just wanted to make sure we answered the second part of your question so what are some ways we can?
Speaker 2:
our listeners can facilitate a feeling of felt safety with their kids.
Speaker 3:
I think one of one of the easiest things to do is to have a conversation with your child and ask them if there are areas where they feel unsafe. I think a lot of times we assume and we don't ask, and so you may have a child who's misbehaving in school and it's easy to see that as disobedience or willful defiance. But I would be very curious to know if, if there was something happening that that made the child feel unsafe and again, it may simply be their perception they may be safe in school, but but asking that question and being willing to hear the answer and help them find a solution is really important, you know one of the things that adults forget also is, especially when you're dealing with younger children is that we are bigger than them.
Speaker 4:
So one of the things I always like to do is get on the child's level, sit with them side by side, or, if they're a small child, maybe I would sit on the floor maybe, or let them stand somewhere where I helped him feel like I'm at a level where they can converse with me, versus towering over children because adults are louder. We're just bigger and for little kids, especially young children we are. We can be scary and imposing and not even mean to be.
Speaker 2:
Sam, you reminded me of something. What about eye contact? Can that cause kids to feel unsafe? Because I know that's really important for some people to meet. They they think kids need to have maintain eye contact with them well, for sure.
Speaker 4:
I mean eye contact means a lot of things and depending on what you read. But culturally, eye contact can sometimes be, it can be threatening. Sometimes eye contact means you're, you're opening the challenge. Some of that's biological, but some of it is also. There's a way to have soft eye contact, a way to make meaningful eye contact a short, short looks into the eyes and then looking down and away or up and around, so that way somebody's not completely held in your days. I hope that answers the question.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I think it's also a good idea, just like Sam said, to be on their level. But sometimes it's easier for children to communicate with us side by side rather than face to face, you know, especially if there's a desk in between, and so having that conversation side by side takes some of the pressure off, and even if you could walk and talk with that child, if you could be outside a lot of times, that atmosphere is much easier for a child to confide in you than again in office across from a desk oh that, amen.
Speaker 5:
I learned my first two or three years here. I learned that very thing. What you just said, suzanne, is that the kids that would come into my office, that those were difficult conversations, oftentimes spent more so, even for the boys, I think. But but If we were to go on a bike ride and ride over to two and a half miles under the Jenna by the time we got to the 385 bridge they were jabber boxes, but it won probably. Just the physical motion probably activates some of some of our talktiveness, but. But then, like Sam said, it had the the right amount of being able to check in with some eye contact, but not threatening, and too much for a newer kid. So that side by side thing really is helpful, isn't it? Yes? Or ride horses with the kids is another thing.
Speaker 2:
All right. Last question what about caregivers? How important is it for caregivers to feel a sense of safety or felt safety?
Speaker 3:
One of the important things about our model of leadership and service is that we point out each of those components are just as important for us as adults and caregivers and staff and parents as they are for the children that we care for. So if I don't feel safe, it would be really hard for me to help a child feel safe, and so I need to maybe engage in some self care activities. I need to work on my relationships. I need to find a way for myself to feel safe before I can extend that to the residents that I interact with, or even my own personal children.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, well said. I mean there's not. There's a lot to be said about an adult feeling safe to and trying to care. We only have so much energy in our life and if I'm worried about just keeping the lights on at home, how can I give everything I can to help a young child, or any child, be okay? I mean, if you're just worried or you're working two jobs or just trying to make ends meet, I'm not sure that's always safe. And then you also worry about your children. You worry about at least safe at home. Sometimes you got to leave older children at home to care for younger children even, and you worry about especially depending on the neighborhood you live in, or or anything like that. So it's very important for a caregiver to feel safe. Much to my previous point, just like kids cannot grow in an unsafe environment is very difficult for adults to do the same. It's all. It's all true across the board.
Speaker 5:
Yeah, the self awareness piece that you mentioned is is huge and, and, josh, something that I've noticed from being out here that adults that aren't like Sam says are just carrying the weight of the world and if we lose self awareness so much of the time we're going to be toxic with the child and no matter how we choose our words, they can still they can smell it.
Speaker 5:
Okay, yeah, right, If we're hijacked, if we're anxious, whatever it is that they sense it, no matter how carefully we choose our words. But another piece and this is coming from a pastor's perspective is I have seen harm that's done through some really frightening images of God that might be transmitted explicitly or implicitly to children and those things can really harm a child where you're never feeling safe If God is wrathful and is a cosmic cop who's always watching and you are never safe in a scheme like that. So I hope listeners could. It's always good for all of us. Can you to draw close to God and see that is the center piece of the portrait of God and Jesus Christ and what God's really like.
Speaker 2:
Well, Mike, Sam, Suzanne, feel really safe in here with you guys today. So thank you all for joining us today. I hope you felt safe with us this week and remember you might have to load out your frontal load today. Just make sure you get them back.
Speaker 1:
Thank you for listening to brain based parenting. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you would like more information about Cal Farlies, boys Ranch are interested in employment, would like information about placing your child, or would like to help us help Children by donating to our mission, please visit Cal Farlieorg. You can find us on all social media platforms by searching for Cal Farlies. Thank you for spending your time with us and have a blessed day.