Power & the Model of Leadership and Service

Ever wondered how power dynamics influence your parenting style and your child's development? Dive into an insightful conversation with our guests Michelle Maikoetter, Suzanne Wright, and Mike Wilhelm as we navigate the often complex seas of power, control, and ego in parenting. We aim to shed light on the positive and negative implications of power, the role fear plays in control, and how self-control is key to fostering healthy relationships. More significantly, we unravel the impact of power differentials on a child's moral compass and the dangers of fostering compliance rooted in fear.

We draw from our personal experiences to share insights on patiently teaching our children valuable skills and allowing them to learn from their inevitable mishaps. The importance of staying calm and respectful when dealing with children in crisis is underscored. Listen in for some practical advice on how to navigate these dynamics effectively, and gain an understanding of the merits of long-term empowerment, adult self-awareness, and fostering robust, healthy bonds with children. We promise you, this is an episode you wouldn't want to miss!

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:02

Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience and professional training Cal Farlies Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, cal Farlies staff development coordinator, joshua Sprott.

Speaker 2 0:36

Welcome back everyone and thank you again for joining us as we power through the next part of our Model of Leadership and Service. You guessed it we're talking about power today. I'm again joined by Michelle Micetter, our Chief Programs Officer. Hello, suzanne Wright, our Vice President of Training and Intervention.

Speaker 1 0:51

Good afternoon.

Speaker 2 0:52

And Mike Wilhelm, our Senior Chaplain. Howdy Again. We're going to start by doing our question of the day. Are you guys ready for today's thought provoking question?

Speaker 5 1:00

Yes.

Speaker 2 1:01

Bring it on. Alright. Today's question is if you could have any super power, what would it be? And, more importantly, would you use your power for good and be a hero, or would you use it for evil and be a villain? So I'm a huge Superman fan. He's like my favorite favorite. I love that he can fly, and I think I mean you guys may remember the other day when I talked about I was scared of heights, so this might come as a surprise, but I would love to fly. I'd like to say I'd be a hero. I'm not really sure what you can do heroically flying. Maybe I'd save some cats from trees or something like that.

Speaker 4 1:35

I think I might like for my super power to be able to be in two places at once. It might be that I could accomplish more, or maybe I could carve more relaxation or enjoyment.

Speaker 2 1:53

Might be a good way for you to establish a good alibi too.

Speaker 4 1:56

Oh well, I haven't thought of that. Now you make me sound like a villain.

Speaker 5 2:01

What about Michelle?

Speaker 3 2:03

I mean it's hard to pick one better than flying.

Speaker 5 2:05

I don't want to be redundant but yeah, flying is probably.

Speaker 3 2:08

I don't want to be like, I don't want invisibility capabilities, but I would like to be able to fly. And then I always think I would like to be a villain, because I feel like when you do, when you experience the opposite, hopefully of yourself, it helps you be a more balanced person, and so it would come back to something good, I would hope.

Speaker 2 2:29

A redemption art?

Speaker 4 2:29

Yes, you're really just the only honest person.

Speaker 5 2:33

So you and Josh are not afraid of heights, evidently.

Speaker 3 2:37

I don't know if we can fly.

Speaker 5 2:38

I mean, it looks really cool to fly, but I mean, you're really up there.

Speaker 3 2:41

But if you could fly, and then you wound yeah.

Speaker 2 2:43

That's what I do. Just like two inches off the ground. Just give a long low.

Speaker 5 2:48

Well, I used to watch all the super Marvel movies with my grandson, so I've looked at all the different powers and I just would like the power that they all have. They never get tired. Oh yeah, I mean like whatever it is they're doing is like they keep going and going after it, and it's like they never get tired and I'd be good with that, yeah.

Speaker 2 3:11

So would you be here?

Speaker 5 3:12

I'd use it for, unlike Michelle, I would use it for good. Yes, sure.

Speaker 2 3:19

So today we're talking about power as part of the model, leadership and service. So what do we mean when we're talking about power?

Speaker 3 3:25

You know, when I think about power, I think about the ability to be in control of yourself, and I strive to be the same person regardless of where I am, who I'm, with what I'm doing. So I'm a consistent version of myself, I guess, and so I feel like power is your ability to take in the surroundings whatever is going on at that time and be who you are.

Speaker 5 3:47

Boy, that I appreciate. This is a hard question and it looks like a very simple question, but the when you take the bait, you assume that it's exerting power over others. It seems like that's what we tend to think that it's about, but self-control being able to control yourself, I'd say was the greatest power.

Speaker 4 4:09

Yes, I think that we want kids to have that self-control because it leads to them being successful, productive citizens right that if I can control myself, I can live freely in our society, I can follow the rules of society, I can build relationships with other people. And people that aren't able to exhibit that internal self-control tend to struggle much more throughout their lives.

Speaker 3 4:39

And with relationships right. So is the difference between being reactive in different situations and relationships or being intentional with your choices and what you're able to do.

Speaker 2 4:48

So in my experience, power is the hardest part of the model of leadership and service for adults to help kids with. Why do you think that that is?

Speaker 4 4:56

I think it's very hard for adults to share power with children. We talked about this in a previous episode, that especially when children misbehave, we want to exert control to make them behave, and so, especially as kids get older and they have more independence, we need to start building a relationship with them where we can share that power and then help them develop and learn to use it responsibly.

Speaker 5 5:28

Yeah, it seems like as we grow as adults at least it's been my experience pride and ego it all grows. And a child, those that are dependent on you we will tend to take offense and have a great need to be a thwart, tarry in and exert control over our children especially. But we kind of feel frustrated Even towards others in our lives besides our children. But there's this need to control people. That comes from pride or comes from our ego?

Speaker 3 6:02

Yeah, Does fear play into that at all, yeah. I think it definitely does and I Think that's one thing that I notice. You know, it seems like we notice it in other people, but to to notice it in myself. When I'm trying to be more controlling with other people, it's usually because I'm feeling out of control and I'm worried about something and scared about something and trying to prevent something from happening.

Speaker 2 6:25

I know with my own kids when I feel like I'm afraid that I don't have the answers or it is gonna get out of control. That's when I try and over control situations and it never turns out the way that I I want it to.

Speaker 4 6:37

I think all parents would agree. We've all been there, yeah.

Speaker 2 6:41

So what about power differential? What does power differential mean?

Speaker 3 6:45

You know, I think Talk more about feeling like who has the power. So it could be an authority figure, it could be an adult over a child, it could be different situations, the age of a person, the title of a person, that kind of thing, and so in any given relationship there are power differentials. We don't often talk about that, but they greatly influence how we feel about the interactions, how much they affect us, how concerned we are based on those power differentials.

Speaker 2 7:13

So as parents, we typically are the ones with the larger power. Differential right we're. We exert that power. Why is this concept important to understand when working with kids when they're in crisis?

Speaker 4 7:26

Well, I think it's easy for us to again grab that control and we have all the power and then they feel more powerless, or they feel they have less power and that they it also erodes their confidence in their selves. Because then if, if I'm on the losing side of that power differential and you have all the power and you're always Correct, then I don't feel confident in myself to make my own decisions, or I don't feel like my decisions are good or worthy, or maybe that they meet your expectations.

Understanding Power Dynamics in Child Development

Speaker 3 8:03

So then you have to constantly ask for what you should do, how it should be done in reassurance. Yeah, because you don't trust that you can do it yourself. True.

Speaker 5 8:11

And don't you think that it delays character formation in a child, moral development? If we're operating out of that need for power, exerting power over the child, well, they're probably generating a fear response. So then any kind of compliance that you get is not gonna be based out of a child learning to do the right thing because they want to do the right thing, it's because right now I have to do the right thing, I'm sensing fear and I need to do the right thing to be okay right now. So it seems to me like it really gets in the way of character development and moral formation, wouldn't you say yeah?

Speaker 4 8:49

I agree, and I think there's a difference between short and long-term goals for children, right? So for a lot of parents, the short-term goal is compliance. In the moment, right, I want you to behave. But when we look at that long-term goal children are, you know, they're gonna grow up and be adults for much longer in their life than they were children, and so as we prepare them for adulthood, sometimes our goals look very different. Right, compliance means I want you to obey all of my rules while you're under my roof, but my long-term goal is for that child to make good decisions independent of me for the rest of their life, you know, and that's a much longer time period than the short amount of time that they're under my roof.

Speaker 2 9:37

So it seems like it comes down to safety in a lot of ways, like we want kids to feel safer and maybe minimize that power differential. So what are some ways that you guys would advise people to decrease your power differential when working with kids, especially when they're in a state of crisis?

Speaker 3 9:53

Yeah, I think we forget sometimes. I think we forget how powerful we look to children and so sometimes we don't, because they're mad. They might be mad, they might be yelling, they might be very physical in how they're displaying their you know, their fear, and so we think we have to be loud, we have to be big, we have to do these things and we don't realize how threatening we seem to them. And so to be mindful of our presence and how we can be calming or we can make it worse and to be aware of space, how close you are, how far away you are Sometimes that can be calming. To be closer to a child Sometimes that can be more threatening to a child. And then to lower ourselves we're not quite as big to make ourselves smaller, for our voices to be less loud, to be softer, to be slower in our actions and our words, to try to slow down the whole situation, Because anytime you're scared or feel under threat, everything is exaggerated already, and so the more we can calm down, the more the situation can calm down.

Speaker 2 10:57

Yeah, I'm six foot three and I don't really think about that very often. And I remember when I used to process with kids, it was weird that they wouldn't wanna talk to me initially and they'd like back up for me and back up for me, and then, once someone kind of pointed out how I was kind of towering over them, I would just go in, kind of sit down in a chair and make sure that I was lower than they were when we were processing and it was amazing, just that subtle difference would allow them to open up and talk to me a lot more.

Speaker 4 11:25

I think one of the most important things you can do is to give a child choice Right. As an adult, I don't want you to make all my choices for me. You know I start to feel restricted and threatened if you dictate everything to me, and so I want to have a choice and I want to have voice. And kids are the same way right. The needs that kids have are the same as adults, and so whenever you are in a conversation with a child, if you can give choice, you will probably have a better outcome. Again, if you engage them in the problem solving rather than dictating the solution to them.

Speaker 5 12:04

But you had mentioned both, Michelle and Suzanne, about self-awareness in one way or another and found that to be so important.

Speaker 5 12:11

And I can think about times that I have really blown it with a kid and where not only am I not aware of a power differential, but I take the bait and I get into a power struggle. And one of my earlier years here at Boys Ranch I remember there was a young man who didn't meet the behavior qualifications that week to play in the praise band by the system we had in place and that's a whole another discussion if the system was any good or not, which I don't think it was and he comes in and he was already frustrated, anticipating that he didn't meet the behavior qualifications to play that week. And he came in and grabbed his guitar and was gonna and I stopped him and I said, hey, you're not going to play tonight. And he started to get frustrated and things started to escalate and I was getting hijacked and I said, well, I did the real preacherly thing. I said, hey, I'm gonna pray with you. And then his voice was even louder. He says I don't want to pray.

Speaker 3 13:26

Then I was really offended.

Speaker 5 13:29

How dare this child tell the senior chaplain that he doesn't want to pray? And then does it with an elevated voice, even though mine's even over top of his now. So it just went poorly the whole thing. And so there's an easy. It's easy to get drawn into a power struggle and there's nothing good comes from it. Nothing good comes from it, and I'm embarrassed to tell stories like that.

Speaker 4 13:58

Well, it will not help your relationship with the child, but it never again. Nothing good comes from it, but usually it can damage your relationship.

Speaker 2 14:09

That's one of the things I think about. We as the adults have so much power. We can win any battle. But when we win the battle, sometimes we lose the war because that relationship is just completely destroyed.

Speaker 5 14:19

Yeah, good idea, but to have that self-awareness and to realize, oh, I'm about to get hijacked here. That's a huge breakthrough to be able to start to be aware of that as it's coming on, and then just to take a couple of deep breaths and think and to pray Lord, help me not to blow it right now, Because it's so tempting to take the bait and be offended and get really principled about oh, I'm the adult and you're the kid, and I'm right and you're wrong, and how dare you challenge me? And it just nothing good comes from that.

Speaker 4 15:00

No, but I think we could each give examples professionally where we've been pulled into that, and probably personally as well.

Speaker 2 15:06

Yeah, so we believe that the underlying root of anger and aggression is a sense of fear or a feeling of a lack of power. So if we understand that anger and aggression stem from lack of power, what can we do to help kids be less angry and aggressive?

Speaker 4 15:20

Anytime we are faced with behavior that puzzles us or frustrates us, the first thing we have to do is to be curious about what's motivating that behavior, and, as you said, very often it is fear or a lack of power, feeling powerless. And we respond very differently to people who are fearful or who feel powerless than we do people who are angry.

Speaker 3 15:47

Yes, right, typically anger draws an angry response, and so if we're curious and we look below the surface of the water to see what really is motivating that anger, we'll respond differently to the core causes of that you know what, and I love the idea that anger is a self-protection mechanism yes, and so then, if you look at it as it's a way to protect yourself, and when people are being angry it's an attempt to keep themselves safe, and so it is hard for us, you know, with younger children who are crying or throwing a tantrum, we can have a little bit more patience. But then when you have a teenager or someone a little bit older who's angry and cussing and yelling, we don't see. Typically, we don't look behind that to see what's really going on and to treat that not met, not meet that with anger, but with calm and safety.

Palm Sunday's Power, Teach Independence

Speaker 5 16:39

And so I do think that's a hard one. This week is Palm Sundays. This Sunday, I think there's such a powerful message and a pattern in Palm Sunday that really speaks a word to this, and that is Jesus. At this point is a marked man going into Jerusalem, doesn't look particularly safe. He comes in on the donkey. That in itself is a bit of a political statement. So he's coming in. It's no secret. When he's coming into town he could have run, which I think the disciples were wishing he would do, or he could have come in with force, or he could have come in with flattery, but he came in in truth and love. And I always think, lord, help me be that to the child today, to say what needs to be said in love and to not have to fight, to not have to flee, to not have to flatter.

Speaker 3 17:38

Yeah, you know, I think that changes everything If you go into a discussion or a conversation with anyone with a kid, with an adult where you are open to the possibility of where the discussion can go, instead of going in thinking you're going to tell them something or get them to a certain answer or get them to a certain insight. But it clears the way to have an alternate discussion and it usually goes somewhere you would never have expected it to and if you would have tried to control it or steer it, you wouldn't have gotten to where you needed to go.

Speaker 2 18:09

So here's a question for you guys that I really struggle with. You know, in the short run, sometimes it feels like we're helping kids by doing things for them. But in the long run, how does doing things for them rob them of their power?

Speaker 4 18:23

This made me think of my oldest child, when she was learning to tie her shoes, and it was so frustrating because it took so much longer. You know, we'd try to get ready to leave the house and she'd be tying her shoes and I think, oh, I could just do that for her and we could get on the road, you know. And then I had to remind myself if she never learns to tie those shoes on her own, do I want to be tying those?

Speaker 4 18:47

shoes when she's, you know, 12 or 15 or you know, and I'm proud to say that at 27 years old she can tie her shoes, you know.

Speaker 3 18:56

But Good job, Suzanne.

Speaker 4 19:00

Yeah, but that was a hardship for me, you know, when she was little was it's so much faster if I could just do this myself, or I could do it better, right? But again, it's the difference between looking at that short term goal and the long term goal. If your short term goal is just get it done so we can get on to the next event, but the long term goal is how do I want my child to function as an adult, then you realize that helping them learn to do it themselves is vitally important.

Speaker 3 19:33

And I think about we are so rushed as a society right, we're always moving, trying to get to the next thing, and I think so much of that has been lost, like not to take the time to teach my daughter how to put gas in the car, because I just need to get gas in the car and get going, you know, and so there's so many things if you're not actually thinking about what's the end game.

Speaker 3 19:52

what do we want to accomplish here? That you will do it yourself? Take control of it, get it moving faster and not realize you're missing those opportunities?

Speaker 4 20:00

Yeah.

Speaker 5 20:01

And allow for the messiness of the mistakes that can and will happen right.

Speaker 2 20:08

Yes, Well, thank you Suzanne, Michelle and Mike for joining us today. And thank you guys all out there and the audience for joining us. I hope you feel empowered to tackle everything that comes your way this week and remember you might have to loan out your frontal lobes today. Just make sure you remember to hit the bell.

Speaker 1 20:24

Thank you for listening to Brain-Based Parenting. We hope you enjoyed this show. If you would like more information about Cal Farlies Boys Ranch are interested in employment, would like information about placing your child, or would like to help us help children by donating to our mission, please visit CalFarliesorg. You can find us on all social media platforms by searching for Cal Farlies. Thank you for spending your time with us and have a blessed day.