Brain Development: The Limbic System and Your Child

Have you ever felt at a loss when your child's emotions run high, wondering how to soothe their turmoil? Join us  as we unravel the mysteries of the limbic system's role in brain development. Our conversation ventures into the heart of emotional regulation, emphasizing why it's essential to connect with our children on a deeper level before jumping to logic and reason. We tackle the 'regulate, relate, reason' approach, acknowledging the temptation to prioritize reasoning and how it often falls short in truly reaching our kids.

As our kids grow into teenagers, the landscape of parenting shifts dramatically. We open up about the social whirlwinds of adolescence, where belonging and peer influence become the forefront of our children's worlds. You'll hear candid tales from my own life as a parent of teens, discovering how coaches and youth pastors have become new beacons of guidance, reflecting the natural transition of influence. We dissect the impulsive nature of the teenage brain and how unconditional support is a lifeline during these transformative years.

Finally, we strike a harmonious note on the surprising power of music in forging connections with our little ones and teens alike. We share heartwarming stories of how music choice during car rides can become an empowering act for our children, inviting us into their emotional landscapes. Explore the rhythm of relationships and brain development, and learn how embracing your child's playlist can lead to open dialogues and deeper understanding. The conversation weaves together the beauty of music, the importance of empathy, and the art of parenting in nurturing our children's emotional growth.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is, and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience and professional training Cal Farley's Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, cal Farley staff development coordinator, joshua Sprock.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Welcome back and thank you for joining us today as we talk about brain-based parenting. Today, we're gonna continue talking about brain development. Specifically, we're gonna discuss the limbic system and the cortex. To do that, I'm again joined today by Katherine Clay.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Hello.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Chloe Hewitt Hi. And Erica Huckes-Barrell Hello. Alright, since we're gonna be talking about the limbic system today, which, spoiler alert is all about emotion, and since at the heart of music is emotion, I thought I'd ask y'all what is your favorite song and why.

Speaker 3: 1:05

My favorite song is Thunderstruck by ACD. What, yes, hardcore? They wanted me to tell them before we started and I said no, I'm making you wait, that was not true.

Speaker 3: 1:16

Here's why. So I am loved to work out and that is a song that I also finish every 5k, and so as I hit like close to my last half mile, I will put that song on. And I love 80s rock when I work out, primarily because my CrossFit coach and when I was lived in town, that's all he listened to, and so I. That is my song and is my happy song of hey, I'm almost done with this race, I'm almost done with this workout.

Speaker 4: 1:39

You and my dad might have the same favorite song, and I don't like that. There you go. I will never be the same after hearing this Mine. I have Probably two favorite songs in both are songs that I first heard as a little kid, and so the first one is Sir Duke by Stevie Wonder. My dad let me listen to that song at one point on a vinyl that he had, so that was a sweet memory. And then I've always loved Fleetwood Mac, but landslide by them is also one of my favorites.

Speaker 5: 2:15

Gosh, I have so many depending on my mood, but I think one that I listen to most often right now is Lady May by Tyler Childers, just because I love his voice and it's so sweet, just a really sweet song. And my fiance and I got engaged my husband and I got engaged and then went to a Tyler Childers concert, so it's sentimental.

Speaker 2: 2:39

My favorite songs in Dreams by Weezer. The bass line is just so rhythmic and it's steady throughout the whole thing and it echoes like dream. Brainwaves is the way he structured the whole thing. It's just so fascinating. But anyway, I love the song and I use it to finish my workouts too.

Speaker 3: 2:56

See, there is something about that.

Speaker 2: 2:58

Yeah, All right, let's kick off today by talking about the limbic system. This is where most of our kids are. I think so when does this area of the brain fully develop, and what functions does it monitor?

Speaker 5: 3:09

So the limbic system is developing from middle to early childhood all the way through adolescence. It can modulate motor regulation, emotional reactivity, sexual behavior, attachment, and it's really influenced by interactions with family and friends.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Well, since the limbic system is the emotional part of the brain, would it make better sense to try and connect the kids and relate to them or communicate them on an emotional level, instead of trying to be logical and rational with them?

Speaker 3: 3:39

Yeah, for sure, and I think honestly I would hate to say that but probably for us adults as well. So a lot of times I know Michelle's talked about this in previous ones we get staff that come to us super dysregulated and not ready to. They think they're ready to have a conversation and then I realize, hey, they're not in a place that they can have a conversation yet. We need to calm down, we need to regulate, connect, talk about other things before we actually dive into the situation and how to solve it.

Speaker 4: 4:02

Right, and I think too, like at the core of that connection with another person feels very safe, and so safety is an important element to consider when we're talking about connection. And then I think about it with kids like connection before a correction or redirection.

Speaker 4: 4:21

And then even the Bruce Perry stuff that we know about regulate, relate reason, which is the sequence of engagement, and so regulate with a child, some type of regulatory activity connect with them, relate to them, and then the reason piece is when we can actually problem solve or look at why we're meeting or whatever situation we need to explore.

Speaker 2: 4:42

I think that people get that flip though, don't they? They do the reason. I get that with my two year old. I do too, and my five year old.

Speaker 4: 4:50

It's just, it's not. It's. It goes back to like parenting how you were parenting, yeah, and then we just, as a culture, just talk so much yeah. I think that you know, we think that we can connect over language and and I can give you instruction and I can correct you and all these different things, and without having some type of base like relationship or regulatory skills or whatever it may be, that person you're speaking with is not going to be online to what you're talking.

Speaker 3: 5:26

Well, and I think it's even harder with our, with our kid, with our personal kids, right, because I'm like we have the relationship, I know I'm poured into it, so I'm just going to go ahead and go to the reason, right, and so I think it's difficult, but I think a lot of when you think about anger and you think, or frustration, that they're already looking. If they're not thinking clearly, they're already looking at everybody's against them. So if you come in and you're trying to give them the reasoning or the solution, but they aren't calm down enough to hear it, then all they're thinking is you're against me too, instead of hearing what's helpful.

Speaker 4: 5:54

And I think too, that model like to connect and regulate with the kid emphasizes hey, you might be in trouble or there might be an issue here, but how you feel and how we're connected is more important than you messed up in that one way, right, and so if you go the opposite way, which is hey, you did this, then I think the message is I'm just that behavior you saw, rather than I am this person that we have, that I've had a relationship with you for however many years and you know me and you know how to help me calm down, and it's just a different approach.

Speaker 4: 6:24

It's loving and the other approach doesn't always feel so loving. Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 5: 6:30

And I think it really depends on where we're at in our own way, we're at in our own brains too, like if somebody comes to us and they're in their limbic brain, they're in their emotions, something intense happened. Depending on if we're in our cortex, I think a lot of the time the response is to oh well, let me just explain this to you really rationally and walk you through this, which is not because we're not feeling the same feelings that they're feeling, oh yeah. Or also our limbic system can get activated as well. Maybe our kid tells us they did something that scares us for their safety, and so sometimes our response can be like fear that can maybe come out as anger.

Speaker 5: 7:04

And then that's also escalating the situation.

Speaker 3: 7:06

Yeah, I think of a situation recently with one of my staff. He was very frustrated and I could not figure out the route right and he was so dysregulated that I was like, hey, I think we need to talk in a minute, but I think there's more going on that we need to dive into whenever we're calmer. Because his response was you know, he's worked for me for two years and I was like this isn't the right response that I'm used to you, so I knew there was more drive driving it and once we calm down, like an hour later, got to come together, talk about it was. But he was definitely in that part of his brain. He was not, he was only emotions right now.

Speaker 3: 7:39

So I was like we aren't going to get to any of it.

Speaker 2: 7:41

So when you have to address your child about their behavior, would it be better to address the impulse, control and regulation instead of asking questions like what were you thinking? Because they really weren't thinking, were they?

Speaker 4: 7:51

No, no, yes, yes, you know, my daughter the other day struggled big time and I asked her I remember asking her what's going on. What is going on? I just couldn't figure it out because it just came out of nowhere. And then the smarter Catherine showed up and we sat in the rocking chair and then we rock quite a bit, like she wanted to nearly be rocked like a baby, and so we rocked for a long time and then she'd get upset again and we kept rocking and kept rocking and kept rocking, and it took a long time.

Speaker 4: 8:26

But just the pattern of that that rocking, the input that she was getting from me me being able to calm down was able to help her calm down, and then we could finally get to the, to the place where she was able to say something embarrassed her. And so I mean, I had no idea what embarrassed her, but in order to get to any language around what happened, we had to, like, turn down the temperature on her nervous system because she was wildly upset. And that's kind of as you're kind of talking about the approach. You know, I could have all day long said why are you doing this? What are you doing? What is happening? Tell me what happened or whatever, and it would have just created more chaos for her because I was missing a big piece of it.

Speaker 3: 9:10

So yeah, I mean, I think that example says it all, yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:14

I think it's so funny that we oftentimes do just what were you thinking and the truth is, kids are in their emotional brain and they're not thinking. It's just you know, if something feels good, then they're going to do it.

Speaker 3: 9:26

And I think, addressing that and talking about that, talking about impulse control, Well, and I think Catherine touched on this a little bit ago but also just acknowledging like hey, I'm still here. So a lot of times our teenagers make a poor decision, feel guilty about it, are unsure if they can tell us if we're going to, how we might respond. Even if we respond well, they're still afraid that this could be a point where their love is conditional right, and so they're constantly trying to assess hey, can I do it? And knew you already said it was a stupid idea. I did it anyways. How? How's this reaction going to go Right?

Speaker 2: 9:59

So I think another thing that our kids brains are doing during this time of development is they're always scanning social situations, determine if they're in or out. Why is this an important dynamic to be aware of with our kids?

Speaker 3: 10:10

This is another one I think is important with kids and adults. I think this is interesting. I still sit on the same side of the room. That I did when I worked in casework and it drove. You know, it drove my boss frustrated for the longest time. He's like when you go to use programs you still sit on that side. That's the casework side and I said I didn't know there was even a side. But I think, because you are looking for that in every, in every aspect of life, I think kids are, we are, and so I really felt like this one was hit.

Speaker 4: 10:39

all that this is also a time in brain development when the peers the outside of the family unit influence is the biggest. And this is where this is the area that we see, kind of like Chloe was saying, the scanning of where where do I fit, where am I safe, yeah, that type of stuff. So I think, just you know, hopefully if the kid has an organized system, brain development system, then the input from the other environments is helpful you know, and it gets.

Speaker 4: 11:13

it gets stored where it needs to be stored. But it is an important time for adolescents to be scanning and looking and seeing where they fit and if they don't fit, and what's safe, what's not safe, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3: 11:24

Yeah, because I just think belonging, that's all I. When we talk about it, it's all belonging piece. And I think of a particular resident that we that sets with us for lunch. For a long time every day he would sit there and finally I was trying to. It was also an interesting dynamic in our group because of the way that one of my friends was responding. I wasn't used to. So I was also gauging like what, how, why are you responding the way you're responding?

Speaker 3: 11:46

And then this poor kid and the kid want to date you with only staff every day. So we finally got to where we told him hey, you can do it twice a week, but not every week, because we wanted him to start getting that. But he was so nervous to scan the social settings and what to do. But now he no longer sits with us. But we went two days down to one day and now he doesn't even. He comes over, says hi to all of us and then goes to his period Like speaking like about primitively right, like if we didn't belong we would die, yeah.

Speaker 4: 12:14

And so I think that still, there's still an instinctual piece of us that I have to group, I have to find a group, and if I don't, I promise I would bet this maybe not right, I would bet that if you were to like scan heart rates for somebody sitting alone or someone by themselves versus heart rates of a group because the group is regulating each other and the person on the outside is not, doesn't have any co -regulation I bet you'd see interesting data there. But it's about safety, right, like. It's about I belong, I'm safe If, if something tragic was going to happen, I have this group to help rather than being isolated.

Speaker 5: 12:49

Sure so and I think a big piece of it too is feedback like peer feedback, like at this age kids are really starting to develop their sense of self and, you know, in earlier ages they look to their parents and their family and that like shapes their whole identity. But when they're able to find a group of peers that they feel safe with, that they feel seen with, then they get to explore their sense of self a little bit further and that's like a healthy attachment piece too, because they're exploring who they're going to be in this world and so there's so much feedback and so much connection and safety. That's going in what can sometimes look a little bit superficial when kids are just trying to, you know, wear something to fit in or do something to fit in.

Speaker 3: 13:29

Well, and I think even about, I thought that that's a great point. So the feedback piece is also hard for them, right, Cause all the teenagers are in their emotional brain and they're saying things that sometimes are not nice, or sometimes they're super nice, right Like. But then you're trying to help the teenager navigate the feedback they're getting from a peer because it might not be great, but then you can't just say, well, I'm going to go talk to that.

Speaker 5: 13:47

Right.

Speaker 2: 13:47

You can't.

Speaker 3: 13:48

And even now I try not to do that. I, you know it's trying to give my kids power, to feel like they can go and have conversations and they can learn that. But that's a hard piece. They don't know how to navigate that feedback from their peers, especially if it's negative.

Speaker 2: 14:02

So I struggle with this. I have three teenage daughters and, believe it or not, they don't want to hear from me anymore, and it is all their peers. Except for one area I found they are willing to listen to adults, and it's their coaches and their youth pastor. And it's so frustrating because I'd be like tell them the same thing. You know that all all week that you have to do this, this, this, you have to do this, this, this and they're just roll their eyes, whatever you know. And then all of a sudden they'll come home from school and they're saying you'll never guess what coach Sanders said today, and it's exact same thing that I've been telling them for like weeks and it's like the first time they've ever heard it, it's so frustrating, but I've learned to kind of use it, so now I'll like text their coaches and stuff and be like hey, would you mind talking to my girls about X, y, z, so it's so interesting.

Speaker 2: 14:48

But I think the reason they do it, though, is coaches and like youth passers, things like that they're. They're kind of gateways to belonging.

Speaker 1: 14:55

Yeah, yes.

Speaker 2: 14:56

If they're, if they please their coach, then they make the team. If they please the youth pastor, then they're more accepted in their church group. So being mindful of that, I think is it's a good resource to utilize to be in communication with those people.

Speaker 3: 15:09

I think it's okay, Josh. When we get in our cortex, we call our parents all the time, so it comes back around.

Speaker 2: 15:16

Okay, there's some hope there's hope. So as I was preparing for this topic, it struck me that there's a correlation between how music, our music taste and preferences, really developed during this time when our limbic system is developing. I'm guessing you guys would probably all agree that music just felt different during our teenage years.

Speaker 5: 15:33

Yeah, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:34

Yeah, I think. I mean, we love music our entire life, but you just never feel it the same way as you do in your teenage years so if this is true for us, I think we could safely assume it's true for our kids too. So, with all that in mind, what are some ways you think it would recommend to use music as a way to connect with the kids you're, you're with?

Speaker 3: 15:52

So I feel like I jumped ahead on this one because I talked about it a little bit in the previous one that a lot of times when I'll take a kid for a drive I'll let them pick out the music. But currently I use it even with my two and five year old. They rotate what song comes on, and so my five year old, my son, picks a song, then my daughter picks a song and then we go back and forth on the way to town because we have a 40 minute drive and then sometimes mom gets to pick. So I think it's really a way to connect but it gives them some power because I think you know teenagers really want that. I also have done some workouts and runs with teens and that's really. I also let them pick it so that they have some power in it. And sometimes we get to talk about, like, introducing them to some of my music because they might not.

Speaker 3: 16:30

And then we get to we both learn, right.

Speaker 4: 16:33

I was gonna say I do the same with my kids, where we alternate songs and the like I said earlier.

Speaker 4: 16:39

My Spotify is completely trash now because of what my kids have me listen to. But I notice a difference between what my daughter picks, which is very emotional music, like very emotional music, and then my son picks, like you know, the wheels on the bus or whatever, and so it's just interesting because it it reflects her personality and it reflects his at the time. And then I think about the use of music with kids that I've worked with and I feel like I've used it in so many different ways, like I've had a couple of kids beg to put a song on in the car and they wouldn't talk. They were not. I could tell something was going on. But they beg to put a song on in the car and it was a really emotional song but the lyrics, the kid, the lyrics were really heavy and the kids stopped the music and started to talk about what event had happened and it was completely the like you were saying. It was kind of a gateway.

Speaker 4: 17:33

It was a gateway to this conversation and then another piece is that sometimes I think the music kids put on or want us to listen to and I think they know that we're probably going to do that we might be offended by it or that the language might be strong or the content might be harsh or whatever, and I there's a lot of times unless it's outrageous, but there's a lot of times where I let that stuff just slide by and try to get to the, the content of the lyrics rather than the actual lyrics, because I think that's very easy to shut it down right, like a kid is coming to you, basically opening their heart, and their heart has a couple of cuss words in it. The song has a couple of cuss words in it yeah, some ugly stuff. And we're like nope, can't, can't do that, stop, stop, stop, that's inappropriate or whatever. And I think there's still room for boundaries around it. I do, but I also think that sometimes we miss a lot by putting up a boundary too fast, and so I, when when I've had kids come to session, or in the car or whatever it, whatever it may be, I just kind of let it go, and if it gets outrageous then we'll move on, but I just then.

Speaker 4: 18:37

There's a lot of opportunity to ask questions like what piece of that song did you identify with?

Speaker 4: 18:43

That piece, right, there was really emotional.

Speaker 4: 18:46

One song a kid had listened to was something about like some trauma with his mom, and he was able to compare the two right. And I just think it's an interesting time because we are in the emotional brain right, like most of the time at this age, and they're trying to connect emotion with words, emotion with words, emotion with words, and they found this conduit to nest to essentially do that and so that. And then the last piece is I think we can't forget that music has regulatory capacities too, like it's not just relational or emotional capacities, that the beats per minute of music and I'm sure there's some research out there about, you know, 60 to 80 beats per minute and what that produces in a person heart rates and all those things and then higher frequencies of music or more beats per minute or whatever but that the regulatory capacity of that rhythmic and repetition, I think is something that we can't negate when talking about music so what are some interventions you would recommend to help kids limbic systems organize and develop in a more healthy way?

Speaker 4: 19:41

connect before I don't know if correct is the right word or redirect, but you know, I think that connection, meeting them in an interest that they also have, showing interest in their activity, showing up to their activities and work on that relationship stuff first before you think that you could have influence over a child, I think is really important, you know. And then I think that being cautious of, because here we have, at boys range, we have a kids that have some big sensitivities to relationships and so you know, if you are the type of person that comes on really strong and that relationship is too quick, I think it can be alarming to kids. And so I think also being aware of a kids relational history and how to approach them, whether it's, you know, slowly and giving them a lot of power and what, watching your proximity or your distance towards their distance between you and them, those types of things, but still dosing relationship, even if it looks different, you know, based off of their relational history. So doses of a relationship.

Speaker 3: 20:47

Yeah, I mean, I was gonna all those things and I think, as at times they're frustrated or upset, you might see them go, move down in their brain and so at that point they might need you to help regulate, yes, and so they might actually need you to. You're gonna start using some of the interventions you might do with a younger kid because that's what they need at the time. So, to keep that in mind, that just because they are 14, they might be in their lower brain and they need, they need you to help and so, side by side, regulating, say hey, and a lot of times that looks like hey, I need to go on a walk, and and putting it on you too, because it would just true, because I think watching teenagers be upset it's also hard for us, yeah, or even our own children, and so really taking it on, hey, would you like to go with me? Or offering different activities, because sometimes it's not my favorite activity and that's what my kid picks, and so I just try to go with it.

Speaker 5: 21:35

You know it's so interesting. I feel like as we get into the higher parts of the brain, the more everything kind of weaves together, like we're talking about the limbic system but we're also talking about, you know, proximity, and we're talking about rhythm and we're talking about connection, and so what I really love always especially when I speak to Families is just the things that come naturally, where we weave all of these things together, where we're connecting, where we're. You know what feels good to us is going for a walk, so we're gonna say, hey, let's go for a walk and let's talk about this, or, like the deepest conversations always come in long drives, and it's just these things that occur naturally, where all these like really Complex things are intertwining so beautifully to create an opportunity for connection and bonding.

Speaker 2: 22:19

Are there some, maybe possible, well-intentioned strategies parents use, maybe that they learn from their own parents that actually disrupt or shut down Healthy development of this part of the brain?

Speaker 3: 22:29

Yeah, one one that comes to mind for me and is isolation. So, like I think teenagers will say, I'm just gonna go to my room and isolate for hours and you think, okay, whatever they're dealing with it, they can deal with it, they're older, they don't need me as much. But really that's not the case. They actually do need to process through it, they need to talk through it, they need to connect. But I think that's kind of like an older thing, because I think my parents did that a lot. They thought, oh, she's fine, she doesn't need to talk about it, she doesn't want me around, right, because we give those vibes off as teenagers, right, and so I think that's one that came strong to mind when I think Of this question.

Speaker 5: 23:03

Yeah, I also think like minimization.

Speaker 5: 23:06

Mm-hmm and I think you know, I think parents are always doing the best that they can do with what they have and so thinking, like you know, I like, for example, I'm thinking of my parents, of like I know, my mom was very much a oh, I don't want to overreact, because I don't want my daughter to overreact, and I appreciate that and I think that that helps and sometimes, and I also think it's helpful and it comes with the like regulate, relate, reason of being like, yeah, that that is really hard or yeah.

Speaker 5: 23:34

That must have really hurt and even for something like I'm thinking, even like kids at this age, like breakups. I know sometimes we see quick relationships or or young relationships and we are older and we kind of have that bigger view of like, okay, well, this prop, this is a good chance. It's not gonna be here forever, so like let's just, you know it's okay, we can move on and just really being able to sit in that with them and acknowledge like this is your whole world right now and this does really feel really hard, yeah right, just taking the person seriously.

Speaker 4: 24:08

It's like the biggest thing, right.

Speaker 3: 24:09

I'm laughing because my two-year-old I thought this was like a joke that people like talk about. I did not think it was a real thing. So my two year old, one day, her Nutri-Grain bar broken half before she had gotten to eat it yet and had a full on meltdown. And I in the whole time I'm like, take her seriously, take her seriously. But then I'm like this debate of like natural consequence, because you broke your Nutri-Grain bar and you're going to have to just process through it, or do I give you a new one, because this is really hitting you hard that it's broken in half. And so I, the whole time I had to repeat over and over and over take her seriously, do not minimize, do all the things. Um, and yeah, it lasted 15 minutes. Yeah, I, if you're wondering, I let her deal with the the broken Nutri-Grain bar.

Speaker 4: 24:50

So in that bit, yeah, it was fine.

Speaker 2: 24:55

I reminded of what you've all said earlier. Is that what's helpful for maybe some isn't helpful for? Others and it's all kind of just a guessing game, at times just trial and error.

Speaker 3: 25:05

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:06

And I think also Eric, I think you said it as two it's acknowledging that we do are doing the best that we can as parents, and just as long as we're willing to learn and learn from our mistakes and just keep those lines of communication open with the kids.

Speaker 4: 25:19

You know, as you're talking, I'm thinking of one thing that I think is really powerful, that I think my parents wouldn't have done in probably all of us in here maybe the repair rupture stuff that can happen between a parent and child. And I remember I've had people or I've read about parent advice about like don't let your kid know that you're wrong, they have to know you're in charge, they have to know that you are the parent and if you apologize or admit fault then you are kind of like cutting your legs off from underneath you and there's just so much power and in modeling remorse and practicing that rupture repair that I think is incredibly powerful for our kids to watch us do.

Speaker 3: 26:03

Yeah, I mean, I think that was a big one that me and my husband had to talk about, because he is kind of like I'm the adult, I'm right, and so we worked a lot on hey, queuing each other Like hey, when we probably didn't handle it great, like saying, hey, I think you need to go back and have a conversation.

Speaker 1: 26:18

Yeah, and he does the same.

Speaker 3: 26:19

For me it was one of those things that because I'm probably not the calmest when I need to do it, and so when we both come down going back and saying hey, yeah, mommy or daddy didn't handle that well, and I need to say I'm sorry and mommy wasn't feeling calm when she talked to you, all of the things, just being transparent about how you handle it.

Speaker 5: 26:36

I think that's a good point of saying when you're calm, then you go and do that. Yeah, because you might know that you need to do that, but if you're still hijacked, it's not going to come out the way that you intend it to. Then you would if you were calm.

Speaker 4: 26:47

Well, the child needs to be. That's what I was about to say too.

Speaker 3: 26:50

So I even think that, like if my mom or dad had come to me and they were calm and I wasn't calm, I was hurtful with my words. I was very direct, and so I am sure they probably were like I don't know if I want to go back.

Speaker 4: 27:02

Maybe they tried it and they were like no, yeah, yeah, yeah, poor parents.

Speaker 2: 27:06

Well, thanks again for spending some time with us developing your brains. Until next time you might have to loan out your front of lobes today. Just make sure you remember to get them back.

Speaker 1: 27:15

Thank you for listening to Brain Based Parenting. We hope you enjoyed this show. If you would like more information about Cal Folly's Boys Ranch, are interested in employment, would like information about placing your child, or would like to help us help children by donating to our mission, please visit CalFollyorg. You can find us on all social media platforms by searching for Cal Folly's. Thank you for spending your time with us and have a blessed day.