Have you ever pondered the invisible threads that connect us to our loved ones? Today's episode peels back the layers on the profound concept of attachment in parenting, revealing the ways in which our first bonds with caregivers fundamentally shape our future relationships. We're joined by Sam, Katherine, and Mike, who generously share their personal journeys, shedding light on the impact that consistency and quality of care have in laying the groundwork for a life built on trust and connection.
Navigating the maze of modern distractions can be a Herculean task for caregivers striving to forge secure attachments with their children. Mental health challenges, substance abuse, the lure of digital screens, and the disarray brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic have all reshaped the caregiving landscape. We take a hard look at the repercussions of these pressures, uncovering how the need for dual incomes and daycare reliance weave into the intricate tapestry of a child's attachment style. The narrative weaves societal influences with intimate family dynamics, underscoring the collective role we play in a child's development of secure relationships.
In the concluding chapter of our conversation, we journey through the avenues of fostering healthy attachments, especially for children who have weathered adversities that may disrupt their ability to forge close bonds. We emphasize the transformative power of patience, respect, and proximity, and how even the smallest acts of kindness can recalibrate a child's path toward trust. Join us as we explore the delicate balance of nurturing intimate relationships with children, and recognize the ripple effect of community support in the vast ocean of a child's life.
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For More Information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch: https://www.calfarley.org/
Have you ever pondered the invisible threads that connect us to our loved ones? Today's episode peels back the layers on the profound concept of attachment in parenting, revealing the ways in which our first bonds with caregivers fundamentally shape our future relationships. We're joined by Sam, Katherine, and Mike, who generously share their personal journeys, shedding light on the impact that consistency and quality of care have in laying the groundwork for a life built on trust and connection.
Navigating the maze of modern distractions can be a Herculean task for caregivers striving to forge secure attachments with their children. Mental health challenges, substance abuse, the lure of digital screens, and the disarray brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic have all reshaped the caregiving landscape. We take a hard look at the repercussions of these pressures, uncovering how the need for dual incomes and daycare reliance weave into the intricate tapestry of a child's attachment style. The narrative weaves societal influences with intimate family dynamics, underscoring the collective role we play in a child's development of secure relationships.
In the concluding chapter of our conversation, we journey through the avenues of fostering healthy attachments, especially for children who have weathered adversities that may disrupt their ability to forge close bonds. We emphasize the transformative power of patience, respect, and proximity, and how even the smallest acts of kindness can recalibrate a child's path toward trust. Join us as we explore the delicate balance of nurturing intimate relationships with children, and recognize the ripple effect of community support in the vast ocean of a child's life.
To Donate: https://secure.calfarley.org/site/Donation2?3358.donation=form1&df_id=3358&mfc_pref=T
To Apply: https://apply.workable.com/cal-farleys-boys-ranch/j/25E1226091/
For More Information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch: https://www.calfarley.org/
Music: "Shine" -Newsboys CCS License No. 9402
Speaker 1:
Welcome to BrainBase Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience and professional training Cal Farley's Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, cal Farley staff development coordinator, joshua Sprock.
Speaker 2:
Welcome back everyone and thank you for joining us today as we continue this journey talking about BrainBase Parenting. Today we're gonna start a new series on attachment. So today I'm joined by Sam Cernan, who's the assistant administrator of our residential communities here at Boys Ranch. Hello, katherine Clay, who's our clinical supervisor.
Speaker 1:
Hello.
Speaker 2:
And Mike Wilhelm, our senior chaplain, howdy Josh. So before we get into our topic, we always start with our question of the day. Today's topic is attachment, because we know where we come from shapes who we are. I thought it'd be interesting to ask you all about your hometown. Is there anything interesting that your hometown is known for? I'll go ahead and start. I grew up in Casper, wyoming, which is the biggest city in the state of Wyoming, which sounds impressive, but if you combine the five biggest cities in Wyoming together, their population doesn't even equal Amarillo. That's pretty interesting.
Speaker 3:
That is interesting. I grew up in a small town, a small city called Alice, texas, and we're known as the birthplace of the Hanoi music.
Speaker 2:
That sounds fun.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, I grew up in Knoxville, tennessee, which is one of the bigger cities of Tennessee, and a couple of interesting things were known as a volunteer state. Our city is also known as the Marble City due to its production and distribution of marble. And then Knoxville is also about 20 miles from where the atomic bomb was made Very cool. So there you go.
Speaker 5:
Yeah, I'm from Shannon, illinois, population 800. I graduated with 12 girls and eight boys, and our town is famous for nothing. We were out in the cornfield and it was a great place to grow up but, I, can't think of one darn thing we were famous for no marbles, no atomic bombs, no Tejano music. There you go.
Speaker 4:
Just Mike.
Speaker 5:
Wilhelm, it was a charm childhood, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2:
So oftentimes at Boys Ranch we say that our number one intervention in working with kids is building relationships, and what we're gonna be talking about here today is attachment, which is kind of the science behind why relationships are so powerful. So what is attachment and why is it important to understand how we parent our kids?
Speaker 4:
Attachment is the primary relationship we have with our caregiver and that relationship shapes relationships we have in the future. And so if that's a good experience and it's a healthy experience and a stable experience, the idea is that we will then take those skills into relationships with other people in the future.
Speaker 2:
So how and when is attachment formed then?
Speaker 4:
From very early on, from your very first primary caregiving experience, and even intrauterine experience can impact that. So I think you can think of most of us. We were all babies at one point. And so that very first experience, where your caregiver responded to you whether it was a cry or a dirty diaper or your room was cold or whatever that may be, whatever that external stressor was and your caregiver responded to you in a consistent way, then what you learned from that caregiver is that adults are trustworthy and that adults will show up for you and that adults will meet your needs, and that would form a healthy attachment. And then, if it was opposite your experience is opposite, where you weren't attuned to or attended to in a quick amount of time then you might learn that caregivers are inconsistent or caregivers are unhelpful or harmful, and then that would set a template for what relationships in the future would be like.
Speaker 3:
It's super interesting how impactful that is and how much weight that actually carries. Just knowing that and it's always when I was starting to learn these things sometimes you feel like dang, I didn't even know and how many parents feel that way that they were so ill equipped to raise a kid, or like just being raised in a child in the way that we learned by our parents.
Speaker 3:
And so we in a way think we're doing the right thing, which I'm not saying it impacts anybody completely negatively, like it's all bad because we do what we know to do.
Speaker 5:
But it's very interesting to know that, being there, being available and attuned- Josh, I'm not the expert here, but so, if you don't mind, I'm curious to ask Sam and Catherine, this is with attachment is it only learned, experienced, or is there a component to it that would be inherited?
Speaker 4:
You know I think kind of, as both of you are talking in with your question.
Speaker 4:
I'm thinking about a couple of things.
Speaker 4:
I think if the caregiver has come to this journey of parenting with their own stuff or their own struggles or their own barriers whatever word you want to use I can imagine that that would impact their ability to bond with a newborn.
Speaker 4:
So it's not just that the child is being responded to it is that, but it's more than that it's about. The child is being responded to with a soft tone and with loving eyes and with a rocking back and forth, and it's the somatosensory bath piece that I think is really important and adds to just the showing up for the child. But I know that there are a lot of caregivers that, like like Sam said, might be overwhelmed or might have two or three kids and a newborn or might be in a pandemic like COVID, and that impacts the ability to provide super attuned caregiving or that somatosensory bath that it is a loving experience. It's more than just handing a bottle over or changing a diaper. It's the way that, in the way in which that's done, I think that has an impact, and so I just know, not every caregiver has that ability.
Speaker 5:
So you're saying that far as nature and nurture, that this is primarily a attachment rest primarily on nurture. Is that right, I think?
Speaker 2:
that's right. Yeah, from everything I've heard and read, because I mean, really, if you think about it, what can a baby do to take care of itself?
Speaker 4:
Right.
Speaker 2:
Nothing, so the only way that they get their needs met is through crying. They don't even know that they have needs A lot of times babies don't? They just know something weird is going on.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, discomfort which sets off alarm bells in their brains and the only thing they know to do is to cry, right? So when they cry, that's signals that caregiver to come and meet that need. And I think that kind of leads into my next question is how does that connect to the template of trust for kids? What do you guys think about that?
Speaker 3:
The answer kind of makes sense. I mean, and that if I'm not, if I don't believe a person's going to come help me when I'm asking whether I can understand that at the time or not it would probably be that I wouldn't trust people to come help me. So I try to figure out how to do things myself.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, I agree with that. I think each cry is an opportunity to build trust. Or each wine or whatever noise the baby's making is an opportunity to build trust. And time after time after time of responding to that child is building a very strong pathway to I can trust you, the world is safe, the world will help me, or my caregiver will help me, and that becomes just kind of ingrained, or you know and I'm asking questions again is probably the, not the expert at the table, but it would sound to me like that.
Speaker 5:
So you're saying the parent being attuned, being present, is going to be critical for that child to develop healthy attachment style Absolutely. So what I'm thinking about is sitting in a waiting room with a doctor's office and seeing parents with children, and the parents are dialed into electronics and eye contact is not what it was 30 years ago. Physical touch, verbal engagement Do you see that as detrimental, something that's compromised now and that maybe attachment style is suffering because of that?
Speaker 4:
Well, and I think it goes back to whether, for me, whether whatever the distraction is, if it's mental health, if it's substance abuse, if it's an electronic, if it's an overwhelmed caregiver or a stay at home mom who also has kids at home, or whatever it may be, any distraction in the caregiving that makes it a disrupted, a disruptive experience will impact attachment, you know, because it's it's that attention, that attunement that I see you, you're important. I mean it even goes back to you were talking about, like that early experience, like the caregivers, all these, all these things will bond a child. The caregivers sent, the caregivers tone, the caregivers rhythm, the caregivers own stress, response stuff, all that stuff is going to be formed very soon there, at the very beginning of their that bond, that mother and child bond, and so, yes, kind of what you're saying, if there's a distraction there, then I would imagine yes, so it's it's easy to go negative on on parents that are too caught up into electronics.
Speaker 5:
But, in all fairness, any parent that's under resourced and stressed. This is going to be impact, it's going to be compromising attachment with the, with the child.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, and I think I keep thinking back to just COVID. I know I've mentioned it a couple of times, but I had how old was my daughter Two-ish maybe during COVID, and my sister had some her older kids, and I just know a lot of people were trying to care, give work from home and educate all at the same time, and I'm sure most of us here can kind of relate to that. And then I think that gave me the opportunity to do not a great job at work, not a great job caregiving and not a great job taking care of myself in my home, and that in itself had nothing to do with anything except for COVID and how strapped everybody was, and so I think about that with moms and babies during that time. There's plenty of people that had, you know, covid babies quote unquote and how different that was, what kind of experience that was when they were trying to manage all that stuff. You know, like the rest of us, but with an infant.
Speaker 2:
I think one of the things we're going to talk about over the next couple of weeks is the different styles of attachment Secure attachment, avoidant attachment, ambivalent and disorganized and I think your question, mike, on that is going to really come full circle when we start talking about that. So I'm glad you brought that up, because things like technology will have a huge impact on attachment.
Speaker 3:
I'd like to mention something else I think maybe impactful and I'm not sure if it's for this particular podcast, but as we're talking about early caregiving, society is so busy and families got to go to work and both parents work, so some of the times, right after moms have babies, they have to go to daycare, and so we're also counting on those caregivers to do these things.
Speaker 5:
And.
Speaker 3:
I don't know. I didn't actually experience that myself, but I wonder how that also influences someone. So it's not all on the parents you know, because we have multiple caregivers helping very young children and also helping to create some kind of attachment style. Again, I might be out of bounds of the talk.
Speaker 2:
I just thought that's important to talk about. I think traditionally, families and family groups have all lived very, very close together and family units kind of supported one another in those areas where they didn't have to subcontract that out. But in our more modern society I think that's kind of changed. And you don't have your cousins, your aunts, uncles, grandma, grandpa, as close as a lot of times maybe you used to be able to. So I think that is going to impact our societal attachment.
Speaker 4:
Well, and even thinking about like caregiver ratio related to what you're talking about, josh, would be like, I don't know, five adults to one child, because you're talking about a mother, a father, an aunt and uncle, a grandmother or whoever, and now it is, yes, one caregiver, multiple kids. You know whether that's in a daycare setting or a school setting or you know in your own home. It's just, we're just not living in the same way that we used to. That might be more helpful for attachment and early caregiving.
Speaker 5:
Can I follow up and ask Catherine another question, Josh?
Speaker 4:
Yes, please.
Speaker 5:
So attachment formation primary caregiver is going to be. The major player in this Is that right, yes. Mother would be where things would start. Father's going to be close second in that. But then also extended family community is also those, those positive relationships and that feedback that child's getting. Yes, that's also helping develop attachment. So it's not just all pinned on primary caregivers. So wherever that primary caregiver might be stressed under, resource people stepping in.
Speaker 4:
It might be jumping ahead, josh, but this is going to be really important, yeah, because, like, think about now, like if, if I'm struggling, or I've got something to do or I'm trying to work, or if and I'm living in a community and let's say, sam says, hey, let me help you out there and helps me in a caregiving capacity with my own kids, and that relieves my own stress, my own, you know, distraction or whatever it may be, and that's the community sense of the kind of like what you're referencing. Yeah, I mean it's it's a relief for me as a caregiver to live in a community, or an aid to me, I guess.
Speaker 2:
So one of the things I've also heard people talk about and this will play into some of the future recordings we'll do is that kids who have good, healthy attachment typically have, they say, 30 plus positive adult interactions a day, and a positive and adult interaction can be anything from like a stranger smiling at them to you know care, a caregiver giving them soothing attention, but a kid who has unhealthy attachment they typically only have maybe like six positive adult interactions a day.
Speaker 2:
So that kind of speaks to your question, mike, that you know it does take the community, everyone pitching in and pouring into that kid to help them with their attachment.
Speaker 4:
Can I share something that I just thought of, as you were saying that, yes, I agree.
Speaker 4:
And there's also another piece to this that is interesting to me, because when you grow up let's just take the example of the attached, securely attached child who has 30 plus positive interactions a day they're also walking through this world differently.
Speaker 4:
They're walking through this world thinking and knowing and having a sense of truth in them that the world's safe and loving and wonderful and Mike is going to smile at me, sam's a nice guy and Josh is friendly, versus the kid who's had adverse experiences, who has potentially like more disorganized attachment, is going to walk through the world skeptical of you, afraid of Sam, and thinking you're up to something or whatever, and so they will elicit into the environment cues that might actually recreate what that belief, right? So if I look at you, mike, and I know you're, and I think or I sense that you are not safe, I'm going to put my head down and walk away from you. That's not going to invite you to say hi to me, right? I'm saying with you, josh. And so that in itself goes all the way back to secure attachment or insecure attachment or whatever it may be that we're going to elicit from the world what we believe of it.
Speaker 2:
I think that's a really important point, that zero to three, when our attachment is being formed, really does shape the lens on how we see the world in a disproportionate way. I mean your attachment style can change all throughout your life, but it really is set more in that time period zero to three than any other time in your life. So that kind of transitions? Maybe to the last question how can we promote healthy relationships in children who have experienced trauma and why is this so important in their recovery and well being?
Speaker 4:
So to answer the question about how we can promote healthy relationships in children who have experienced trauma, and then why is this so important for their recovery and well being?
Speaker 4:
I, as you were saying that I was thinking about Dr Bruce Perry speaking about how to interact with kids who might have a sensitized system or a system that's a little bit weary, of intimacy or closeness or relationship, and there's a couple of things that I always try to do with those types of kids is to be respectful and give space to those kids and use proximity as a tool.
Speaker 4:
So, even if that proximity is not close to them, or if it is close to them, I think you just have to know the child and then also giving choices and power when power can be given, and I think also you have to just kind of be understanding that they come from a hard space or they have some struggle with relationship and be really curious about that. And I think, as we do these small, what seem like small things over time and what we would hopefully see or likely see is just little shifts in their ability to tolerate intimacy or connection or relationships or their interest in getting close to someone, and I think we can't expect that to happen overnight, because their adversities or their struggles in their relationships or whatever got us here, didn't happen overnight. And it's a long journey, but slowly but surely, I think, with those types of tips, I think that it can be done.
Speaker 5:
Now I appreciate this whole subject because one thing I'm not the expert, but one thing I do notice from the work that I do as a chaplain, and it's well documented through research, is that as attachments go, so a faith formation goes and attachment with God, and it's probably something that all of us would say, well, yeah, of course we've noticed that, but the research actually substantiates that believers are commonly securely attached children of believers. So for listeners that may be, taking care of a child, especially children that come from hard places, is, I think, dr Purvis maybe would say those children will tend to have probably some challenges with attachment.
Speaker 5:
And someone who's trying to raise a child from a hard place that has a and if you have a strong investment in your religious tradition, you might notice that things don't go so well with that child's faith formation, and that stands to reason. So the good news is there are things to do to help. So whatever we can do and what Sam and Catherine suggested to help with healthy, secure attachment, that will help with this whole healthy faith formation with children. And, on the other hand, if we hit the panic button and push hard, in that child.
Speaker 5:
Rather than think about attachment, we push hard with religion on that child. We're actually going to. That will actually be a setback and we'll probably be talking about that more on the next podcast.
Speaker 3:
Yes, yeah, you both said some really good, positive things and I think those things in our link right been that in that. One thing Catherine said is that you meet them where they're at right and sometimes it's hard for us to know. We want people to like us instinctively. We want, you know, in a kid I remember what Catherine just saying like sometimes a young person will ignore you and it looks so intentional and it makes you feel bad and you know the and it's kind of you have to do the counter of what you're feeling. You know, sometimes I'm feeling, hey, uh, well, that kid obviously doesn't want to talk to me, I'll avoid them, but all we're doing is just feeding that insecurity that they have or that negative attachment, but also I got to be respectful.
Speaker 3:
You know, um, oftentimes I used to deal with kids in crisis and I go in in the hottest situations and they're upset and I'm trying to connect with them in some way, and sometimes it was simply that I had to just respect their space, tell them I'm here, um, I'm available If you need to speak to me. I'm just trying to help calm this situation down and make sure you're safe and, and you know, and they have no clue who I am, and so I think, like all that is trying to, uh, if you push too hard, you might just push them away, and I think it's so. Um, I guess, the more we study these things and the more we understand those things, we learn not to take those things personal, and that's the hardest thing for a caregiver, especially in these group settings that we all work in, uh, being a caregiver it can be um hard in that sense, and that they sometimes trigger our, our stuff in our trauma as well.
Speaker 5:
Yes, it's true, sam Seems like brief and count intentional encounters, with warm eye contact and calling the child by name, for those of us who aren't the immediate caregivers. But it seems like those, over time, those investments, rather than trying to do it all at once. Uh, but it seems like that's where things go back.
Speaker 4:
I mean to come full circle. It goes back to what Josh was asking at the beginning about building trust. And how does the primary caregiver do that with a, with a baby? And then, speaking or referencing what you're saying, these doses of trust, these doses of opportunity for you to know I'm going to show up, or that I'm, you know, I'm trustworthy or I'm safe, or whatever it may be, it's these doses or these I guess doses is the right word and then eventually you know I've worked with kids that I don't get there until three, four or five years later. But you get there, you know, and you do shift and change their trajectory with relationships for sure, slow and steady.
Speaker 5:
It seems like it has to move from being unknown, being a stranger, to being familiar.
Speaker 4:
Yes, it's respectful.
Speaker 5:
And to finally, perhaps, being a safe person or some trust start to merge. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
All right. Thank you, guys for all your insight today, and thank you all out there for joining us on this journey. I hope you'll come back next week when we really dive into the core of this and we talk about secure attachment. So until then, remember you might have to loan out your frontal lobes today. Just make sure you get them back.
Speaker 1:
Thank you for listening to brain based parenting. We hope you enjoyed this show. If you would like more information about Cal Folly's boys ranch, our interested in employment, would like information about placing your child, or would like to help us help children by donating to our mission, please visit CalFollyorg. You can find us on all social media platforms by searching for Cal Folly's. Thank you for spending your time with us and have a blessed day.