Often times we focus on the BIG SCARY issues but those hopefully are rare. What we do deal with on a daily basis are the less significant behavior issues, that when handled well we can prevent many larger issues down the road.
Join us as we talk about meeting needs, practicing re-dos, the difference between time outs and time-ins, and how grounding works with less significant behaviors.
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Music:
"Shine" -Newsboys
CCS License No. 9402
Often times we focus on the BIG SCARY issues but those hopefully are rare. What we do deal with on a daily basis are the less significant behavior issues, that when handled well we can prevent many larger issues down the road.
Join us as we talk about meeting needs, practicing re-dos, the difference between time outs and time-ins, and how grounding works with less significant behaviors.
To Donate:
https://secure.calfarley.org/site/Donation2?3358.donation=form1&df_id=3358&mfc_pref=T
To Apply:
https://apply.workable.com/cal-farleys-boys-ranch/j/25E1226091/
For More Information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch:
https://www.calfarley.org/
Music:
"Shine" -Newsboys
CCS License No. 9402
Welcome to BrainBase Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience and professional training Cal Farley's Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, cal Farley staff development coordinator, joshua Sprock.
Speaker 2:Welcome back and thank you for joining us today as we talk about brain-based parenting. Today, we're going to continue talking about discipline. Specifically, we're going to discuss ways to address less significant behaviors. To do that, I'm again joined today by Michelle Mike Hatter Hello. Sam Cerna Hi, and Chloe Hewitt Hi. Welcome everyone. We're going to start how we always start by discussing our question of the day. Today, our topic is how to address less significant behavior. So I want to ask you guys about a time when you got into minor trouble, either at school or home, where you felt like you were wrongly accused. Yeah, I have one for this.
Speaker 4:This is when I was in high school and it was a test time, we were taking exams and the teacher left the room and I turned the clock forward so that we would get out earlier. And it was a joke and the whole class knew it. And she came back in and she got real stressed out because she said, oh, I didn't realize I'd been gone that long, I didn't know I'd left out on Supervisor that long. She kind of got real panicked about it and we had all adjusted our watches too so that if she asked it because she did she asked two or three kids in the class what time it was and we had all adjusted our watches. So I thought it was a huge joke.
Speaker 4:The teacher who now, looking back as an adult, I see she was kind of stressed out and that was probably not the time to be playing a joke on her, but she got really upset with me and she kept me after class and the way she found out was by the dust on the step where I had to step up to get to the clock, I was the only one not wearing cowboy boots, I was wearing tennis shoes and so it was easy to tell that I was the one that had been up there and so she kept me after class. And then she started lecturing me about kind of like criminal behavior and asked me if I'd stolen anything out of her purse or out of her desk. And I was a really good kid and it was just a joke, and so I felt like she way overreacted, although now I can see she was stressed about exams and was not the time to joke.
Speaker 2:She did some real like CSI.
Speaker 4:She was into yes, because everybody was totally quiet. And she went up and looked and there was dust where I had stepped on the counter to get to the clock.
Speaker 2:It's hardcore.
Speaker 4:It was, it was.
Speaker 3:Wild my mind is when I was young I was in kindergarten, I don't remember. I remember just I had a best friend and we were just horse playing and we were actually online to go recess and we just start kind of you know a little kids do kind of slapping your hands together and we're laughing and the principal shows up, who? I never talked to the principal, we're good kids. And he shows up and he says you two were fighting. And we're like no, we weren't, we weren't, and I'm a little guy. And then the teacher comes up and she's sure you all were fighting, you guys get to sit under the tree and you don't get to play. And we kept trying to explain hey, we were just playing, we're best friends.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And nobody would hear you, and so that we got a little consequence out of that thing we got put in the corner.
Speaker 5:Mine. I think I was in like art in eighth grade. It was all junior high and me and my best friend were in shorts and they made us put our fingertips down the fingertip rule and it was a little bit too short and they sent us both to the office. Well, I had never been to the office my entire life and so I immediately, I immediately said whatever? And, like you said, I'm not going to the office. And the teacher was like I'm serious, you're going to the office, so I go to the office. And they called our dads I don't know why, but they called our dads, which made it worse about our shorts, and I cried the entire time until my dad showed up with shorts and I was so embarrassed and it was just over like a half inch too short, but I'll never so. I guess I wasn't wrongly accused, but it felt like very shameful to be sent to the office for a little bit too short of shorts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I had a similar one to Michelle, like it was during test time. It was my first year of high school and I didn't know that they changed during final exams the time you're supposed to show up at school, and so I come to school. What I didn't know is the seniors had been doing senior pranks all night and the security officer was like super, super on edge so.
Speaker 2:I walk around the corner, walk right into him. He grabs me, throws me up against the locker like grabs me by the and just like screaming at me asking me if I did all this stuff, and I'm like I was here to take a test.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's way worse.
Speaker 2:It was very traumatic because I'm like all of you guys.
Speaker 4:I never been to before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, alright, so today we're going to be talking about how to address less significant behaviors. So would it be safe to say that, when it comes to discipline, we, as parents, deal more with less significant behaviors than we do as serious behaviors?
Speaker 4:Gosh, I would hope so yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean because we're always saying no, stop, don't ask parents, you know. So I would think some, if you can just do that, you are less, less significant yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think that this one's funny because you obviously you see the more serious issues like immediately, and then you're trying to tell yourself not to overreact. But I think I spend more of my time with the less significant behaviors, of trying to rework, talk about tones. I'm like, hey, you said it right, but the way you said it to your sister was not correct.
Speaker 2:So what would you say? The role of curiosity is when it comes to discipline.
Speaker 4:I mean, it sounds like just in all of our stories, if some you know, if someone would have had the ability to listen to us in question instead of assuming, it would have turned out better for everyone involved. So I think curiosity is huge anytime there's any kind of misbehavior, whether it's kids or adults, to try to figure out what was actually going on.
Speaker 3:Well, that's a good point, Cause if you know what happened, if you can find out and be curious and understand why all of us did whatever we were doing that got us in trouble, then, by accident, you know, maybe that adult could have handled us in a more, maybe a more fair manner. You know, instead of being put down and the thing that we got to talking to about, hey, keep your hands to yourselves, and that would have been it, that would have been the end of it, for in my case, right, you know, yeah, it would have been nice To me.
Speaker 3:it would have been nice had the adults been curious about what we're actually doing, versus making the complete assumption.
Speaker 5:I think that's one of my favorite things when you're being curious is asking like hey, the timeline right, getting a timeline from them? When was the last time things were going well? And break it down and allow them to talk all the way through it, because a lot of times when you just ask that simple question, you're going to figure out there was a lot more going on and what was driving that behavior. Feel, sit and listen and be curious about it.
Speaker 3:It also keeps the kid from overreacting, right? If you don't overreact and you ask questions maybe helps them to be a little calmer. Answer the questions. They're less afraid to be truthful. You want them to be able to tell the truth and it's okay, right? So, especially if it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker 5:Also gives them some a sense of power in the conversation. Right, they're guiding the conversation, not just you as the parent, and you're sitting back and trying to listen to them and give them a voice.
Speaker 4:Yeah, also. I mean, I think about as adults too, because most of my conversations are more with adults than kids like Chloe and Samar. And so if I'm not in a place where I can be curious or I think I already have an answer, then the discussion usually doesn't go very well for me. And so if I'm not in that place yet, then I know I'm not ready to have the conversation. And I think about times when people have tried to make me give them a certain answer. How much you push back, even as an adult? How much you push back on that? If I think you want me to say something in particular, and that's not really what it is, there's no way I'm going to say it. And we do that to kids all the time. We try to get them to say a certain thing instead of actually being curious and open to what the answer is.
Speaker 5:Yeah, sometimes trying to give them the answer before they've even answered.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:It's one of those things. I say that too. I had to learn that about myself. When I have a conflict with someone, I want to automatically talk it out, because that's kind of how I was raised. So I have to sit back and say but my husband's the opposite, he needs a day or he needs space, and I need a weight and allow him to have that. But what's beautiful about that is he taught me that. And so now, sometimes, even when I'm upset, I won't want to do it right away. I'll still want to do it recent, because I want to resolve the conflict. I don't like conflict with people, but I do take some time and I'm willing to give people that space, because a lot of times our kids are the same way Right, they might need a minute, they might need to regulate, they might need some time before they're ready to talk about it.
Speaker 4:And I think we miss it again as adults. We know that we might be that way, but we think that kids should have to tell us right then, all the time, all the time.
Speaker 2:So what would you say? The root for most of these less significant behaviors is you know, just go to the basics.
Speaker 5:Can it be that they didn't eat enough? Can it be they aren't? They aren't hydrated? Could it be that somebody just gave them some negative feedback and so then they're going to be snippy with you? I mean, there's so many things for the less significant feedback.
Speaker 3:Gosh, could it be your age? I mean, the little kids are impulsive, yeah.
Speaker 4:And I think too, we realize that when kids are younger like when they're tired or off schedule or something's novel or something like that, and then when they get to be a little bit older, just teenagers or pre-adolescents we don't take those things into consideration, and so I think those things are always impacting us. We just have less awareness and, I think, less patience for it. And I know most of the time for my own kids, their behaviors was more out of anxiety or fear or concern about something, and when I was able to look at it that way, I was able to handle it better than if I just thought they were being rude or disrespectful or whatever.
Speaker 5:Well, I mean. Another thing that I think is their routine is off. Like I know, if it is a holiday or a busy day for me and we've got eight things that day, my kids are probably going to have more behaviors because it's different than our normal routine. And so, even and I think that goes for all kids, regardless of if they're toddlers or high schoolers we all love routine and consistency. So at the moment that it's not that way, you're going to see a behavior out of an adult or a kid and you just have to walk in knowing, hey, this might not go well and I might have to try again, or we might have to change it up, or I might have to leave early.
Speaker 4:Man, if COVID taught us anything, it was that when we don't have a routine, we don't know what to do which way is up. That's why it was so miserable for so long with COVID and to all kind of figured out new routines, because, man, that really is discombobulating for you.
Speaker 2:So one thing we often say is the reason a child is misbehaving is because they're trying to get a need met, but they're trying to get it met in an inappropriate way. Why is that an important concept to understand?
Speaker 4:I think it goes back to what we were saying before about, you know, punishment versus discipline. If I wanted a kid to stop doing something and I implement some kind of punishment that has nothing to do with whatever is causing the issue, that I'm just wasting my time and the you know behavior is going to continue. And so looking at what's underneath that so we can meet the need, so it changes the behavior.
Speaker 3:What's funny is some adults want to punish because they think the behavior is going to continue, to do nothing about it, versus address, just address it, ask, figure, be curious and ask yourself why would this? Why would my child snap at me? If that's not typical, what would be driving that? You know we do terrible job, assuming we're trying to give kids adult traits Like even some adults can't just have a conversation after some kind of conflict and to try to talk it out and we're expecting kids not to snap at us sometimes, right, and it's just.
Speaker 3:It's kind of a weird thing. Why would we expect a young person to be able just to know what to do when most of adults can't do that themselves?
Speaker 4:And to do better than us, right yeah?
Speaker 3:Yeah, for you know it, for for me to just do something on command. I have some thoughts about it yeah. Right, and I assume a five or six to seven or eight 12 year old they have thoughts about it. Yeah, why am I making me do this? I don't understand Maybe they don't get why you're asking them to do what to do. Why can't you wear those shorts, right? Yeah, you know, it's just so crazy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and we'll yell at them to not yell at us Right Don't be disrespectful by yelling right.
Speaker 3:We're doing it, modeling the whole reverse thing. That's exactly right. They don't listen to me anyway, I guess we'll just right.
Speaker 2:So let's dig into talking about meeting needs. First let's talk about sleep. What behaviors might you expect if a child is not getting proper amounts of sleep?
Speaker 3:What would you expect out of ourselves?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm not typically in a good mood when I am not sleeping Right, and so I mean lack of attention sleeping in class is probably a big one.
Speaker 4:Yeah. You're going to be more short-tempered for sure, if you don't yeah, easily frustrated.
Speaker 2:So what are some ways we can help a child if we feel the root is lack of sleep?
Speaker 4:I really think this is a big, big reason why kids struggle so much today is that most and most adults too most kids and adults don't get enough sleep, and so, just like we were talking about, I think, routine is such a huge, important way for us to help settle down and to be able to sleep at night, and most of us are running so much and have such busy, conflicting schedules that it's hard to have a good routine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as adults, we have to be the people who set routine for the kids. My mom put us to bed at 10 o'clock. That was routine all as far as I can remember, and it's still kind of the marker for me for life, right, and so we can do way more intentional things turning that out on the lights in the house, making sure they're not on devices right before bed, making sure they're eating proper, they're hydrated, all these things.
Speaker 3:So that they can get a good night's rest, maybe not giving bad news before bedtime, or whatever.
Speaker 5:Well, I think being creative. So I mean, weirdly, I don't put my daughter and my son to bed the same way, because my daughter's I said that in the last one, my son is not a physical touch, but my daughter is, and so my daughter knows she gets 10 minutes of snuggles before bed and my son is going to want three books picked out. He wants to pick his three books, he wants to read those three books, and so it's just knowing what needs each of them need and that's what in trying to meet it. And so a lot of times you're not going to know, but you can kind of experiment a little bit. We say that all the time like try and figure out which one works the best, and then maybe a little bit of a experiment and maybe allowing them some power in it.
Speaker 5:I get tired of reading the runaway pee, but my son picks that book five nights out of the week, and so just allowing him the power that he used to pick his books also helps.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think too. We sometimes think like letting kids watch something or, you know, on devices will help, and what we know is a lot of times if they're watching a movie or they're doing something with a video, it keeps them up longer. And so listening to things especially if somebody's reading to you or listening to music or something relaxing like that it really helps kids more than actually you know.
Speaker 2:being engaged on a device or some electronics All right next, let's talk about proper nutrition, diet and hydration. What behaviors might you expect if you feel like this is the root of your child's behavior?
Speaker 4:I mean, I think everyone here has seen me act like a five-year-old when I have not eaten on a regular schedule and my husband will contest that. For sure that I get very. Again. We think they kind of talked about very irritable, impatient and very childish. I get very. I get very childish when I haven't eaten for long amounts of time and I think all of us are dehydrated 98% of the time adults and children so not not able to function at your best when those things are going on.
Speaker 3:I think it also makes you low energy and sleepy too. You're not taking care of your, not the nutrients you need.
Speaker 5:This one is really a favorite one for me because, you know, there was about four months my son was like acting way up at daycare and I could not figure out, and so when we had our meeting I asked he's always been a finicky eater and so I said, hey, how is he eating for you? Because he was just eating the food that they had. And he said, oh, he never eats. And I was like, oh, I didn't know that. And so I said, Well, how about I start packing his lunch and let's see if that helps? And lo and behold, it started helping. And then, on days that they had something that he would like, they would let him have it, and so, but really, we saw a huge change in his behavior at school when I started packing his lunch and he was eating a full lunch.
Speaker 4:And I think kids just you know we especially when we're kids and I as well we all want the sweet stuff, we all want the high carb stuff, and they're not really thinking about protein and other things that have sustaining, you know, energy and so, and if we're not paying attention, that's that kind of stuff is happening all the time. Our kids are hungry, all the time. They have a lot of sugar but they don't have a lot of other. You know things, and so I think this is a big one too.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and just the education around it, right? So the most important one is just meeting that protein. If you can meet that protein like that they're eating a good amount of protein then you're gonna. That's the most healthy thing for them and that's what I, you know, trying to get them that protein is helpful. Yeah, and a lot of kids don't want to eat protein.
Speaker 2:No, Alright, so let's talk about physical exercise. What behaviors would you expect to see if this is the root of the behavior?
Speaker 3:Maybe they have a lot of energy, maybe because they're not really expending a lot of energy, so a lot of restlessness. Fidgeting, I'm just assuming.
Speaker 5:You could have some depressive behaviors too, where they're isolating to the room a lot. They don't. They're wanting to take naps a lot they're. You know you could have some of that too, where they're kind of reclusive because they aren't. They have lower energy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think what you see is you know you have energy when you don't need to have it and you don't have it when you need to have it. You know when it's out of balance, like that.
Speaker 2:It's kind of funny. My oldest daughters are pretty athletic and they like to be active all the time and I can tell when they haven't had any physical exercise, because they get me like yeah, that's how that energy comes out.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's how it comes out so.
Speaker 2:I'm like, alright, we gotta go for a walk, we're running or something it's funny that you say that.
Speaker 5:So I had a co-worker who also loved to work out like I do, and so he used to tell me oh, I can tell you haven't worked out in a couple of days and so the way, michelle was talking about. Food is the way I am if I don't get to work out. I was laughing about that when you said that.
Speaker 2:So what are some ways you would suggest to help families or to encourage families to be more active?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, you can just take walks. I mean, it walks on an easy, short thing you can do, and you can do it together and along with that you can have a nice conversation. You can talk about your day. Maybe get some things out we needed to talk about or talk about nothing.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I know a lot of times my kids want to go to the park and so my caveat is that, okay, we can walk down to the park and so then they get that as well, as they can run it out at the park and swing or do whatever. So I think walks do wonders. In any time of any type of exercise, you can just walk and that's super helpful.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I need to. That's really my favorite. We have a front yard swing to, which I love, but yeah, walking is really my favorite.
Speaker 2:I think just finding out what your kids like to do too, and stretching yourself sometimes to do some things that they like to do, that maybe you know I don't like doing all the things my daughters like doing all the time, but taking a little chance and doing that shows them that I'm willing to do it too. Yeah, All right. Next I'm going to shift gears a bit and talk about islands of competence. What is an island of competence and how does that fit into discipline?
Speaker 4:This is one of those things that I think is often misunderstood in the way we think about punishment, and so often we'll take something that a kid is successful at, does well Maybe it's a sport, maybe it's, you know, a club they belong to and we will take it away from them to get them to perform better in other areas. And what we believe is that if you have an area of success that you can build off of, what are you being? Why are you being successful in that area? And then what do we take from that to put into these areas that you're struggling in? Rather than taking it away and using it as a carrot, we use it as an island of competence to build upon so you can move into other areas of success.
Speaker 2:I think, sam, there's a girl you and I used to work with that this really really worked well with. I mean, she was struggling big time and we couldn't figure out how to help her at all. And we're like getting to the point where we're like we may have to release this girl because, I mean, nothing's, nothing's working. And I remember the case worker called her dad and was kind of telling her, telling the dad, what was going on with her, and he's like, yeah, I know she's tough, she's just too smart for her own good and I don't know that just like click something with that case worker and we ended up getting her involved in some rocket club stuff. And I know you started having a lot of more intellectual type discussions with her and it was just amazing, she got into rocket club and she took off. Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:It really did help her. Right it did. And it did Because when I found out that she was in, she told me herself I like science, I like things, I like those things too. So we just made intentional things. We just talk about how things worked or whatever it was. I don't even remember all of it, but I do remember. And then I do remember her getting into that rocket club and it just kept her engaged and she was good at it and I think giving her some success in her life was what kind of helped her shine.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we, you know, recently we had a boy that was really, really, really struggling. We were worried about him and how it was going to look and he's really plugged into football and I feel, like you just saw it overnight flip, like we could see the change in him and he just feels confident and it really is helping and it's really neat to watch.
Speaker 3:And the best part of all that, too, is especially with these clubs. Right, it's a whole collection of people that all like the same thing, so then, that also increases their, their ability to communicate with others, relationships with others and make another adult. That's involved in leading those things which leads to, maybe, more conversation, which leads to more safety, which leads to more islands of competency. It's really an awesome thing how much it expands them.
Speaker 5:Well, and I think you can look at that, even if a coworker you're struggling with, or spouse, or anybody friend, and you're like, okay, well, what do they do? Well, and what do they do? What is it that they bring to the table, and starting to look at it from that angle instead of always looking at it in the negative, it definitely helps. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Michelle, you said something I think is really important too the part where you know traditionally we like to the kid has something as a carrot. We like to hit him where it hurts when they mess up Like that girl I was talking about with Sam. She still had some issues and I remember in team meetings people are like let's take Rocket Club away from her. But if you take everything away, you know it's that old, I can't remember the song. It's something like freedom is just another word for having nothing left to lose, that once they have nothing left to lose, then they have nothing left to lose and they can do whatever they want. So it kind of would be a double-edged sword to take everything away from them like that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, that's literally one of my favorite things that Jackson says my boss, he says all the time don't ever let a kid get down to nothing. And it's my favorite thing he tells us because it's very true they have to have something that they feel successful and that they feel good at.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had a kid when I was a young house parent I'm within my first year I had a kid literally tell me that, literally say I've had everything taken away, there's nothing you can do. Yeah. So you know really him and I just became really great. We had a really great relationship because we just talked. I would tell them old army stories and he was all into that stuff and I love this kid and I never had to ever try to take anything away because he just wanted to do what I asked or help me out and be with me at all times.
Speaker 3:He grew up to be a guy and joined the army himself or the military himself. It's really powerful how much not taking things away is right. Instead, relate to them and find a different way to do it.
Speaker 4:Connect yeah, connect yeah. It goes back to what we were talking about before, about, you know. Instead of trying to make them feel worse, right To punish them, to make take something away that they care about, which often leads you to having nothing left right.
Speaker 4:That's how you get to those places where they've taken all the doors off and removing everything out of the room to where there's nothing left right, and if it was working you would have had, you know, you could have stopped early, early on, and so that's what the path that it leads you down. But then if you look at connection and the difference that connection makes, it just reframes all of it. For you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was thinking that there's a legal limit to taking things away or adults crazy. There's a legal limit. There's no limit on love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, that's right. That's where the connection factor into discipline.
Speaker 4:I mean, I think that's the whole point, right Is that we're supposed to be teaching and we're supposed to be modeling, and there's so many things that kids are supposed to just absorb that we don't directly say. And I think the more you can directly say something to help get a point across, like one time I was asking a kid he had misunderstood something a coach had said and I said how do you know whether or not you misunderstand someone? And he was like I don't know. And I said you ask him. And he was just like what do you mean? You ask him, you know. And so there's things like that that we just want kids just to figure out, sometimes without directly telling them. And so I think being conscious and intentional with instruction about how to do things is super helpful.
Speaker 5:And I think you can always end it with the phrase like do you need me to go with you? Would you like me to go with you? Because I think a lot of that too is there's a fear, right, like it's hard and they might not know how quite to do it. So you know, my son always likes to come to me and say hey, such and such just push me. And I'm like okay, and did you say anything? And he's like no, I came in and told you and I said okay, well, how about you go talk to him? And then we role play it. And then he goes and does it right, so trying to get him. But I'm like do you want me to go with you to talk to him? Because they kind of just need help, like they don't know and they're learning to navigate it.
Speaker 3:And that's fair. They adult. You know we actually have to know why. Why are we saying no, or why are we putting this boundary or this limit in place? Because you know, having these this five and six year old in my house, they ask me why all the time. Why? And you know, sometimes I'm gonna because that's what we're supposed to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know why I mean so it got me to think about.
Speaker 3:I have to be prepared to answer because they're more likely to do what. I ask If I tell them why. You know, okay, get into the edge of the sidewalk, that gets us too close to the street and there's cars and they don't see you and you have to answer and it takes more time and you figure they know it because you said it already three times.
Speaker 3:But sometimes you know, sometimes you just have to retrain because, right, we know that instruction and training requires a repetition and patience, and adults wear low on patience sometimes, and that's true for any age person You're trying to teach something, maybe a new concept. You would think that a 15 year old would know thing, but that's not always true, especially if you weren't always their caregiver.
Speaker 5:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's funny. It reminds me of a story Like there was this one kid out here. He graduated and about a week after graduation he called his house parents up and it's like I'm at a gas station, my car's out of gas and I don't know what to do. Right. Like I just assume that everyone knows how to do things, but unless someone's taught you how to do it, you don't know, right, yeah?
Speaker 4:We had the same thing. I had a kid when I worked at a different residential facility and he had been out there for six years and he went to college and he went to the cafeteria and it was closed and he didn't know what to do because for six years of his life every meal had been served at a dining hall or a cafeteria, and so it's the same kind of thing. He called his coach and said I don't know what to do, and the coach picked him up and took him to go get groceries. But you know, one of the things we've worked on, you know, as organizations raising kids, is to teach them some of those more parental kind of things. And if they were in a typical home, they would pick gas in a car, they would buy groceries and all these kinds of things. And we've gotten better at that, but we're still, you know, not as proficient as a regular family would be teaching them.
Speaker 5:I think about that every time we go out for like a town trip or take kids somewhere, I'm like, okay, let's go ahead and talk about expectations, or a lot of times, if I'm doing something, I'll kind of walk them through it, because they haven't ever the ATM or the gas, so like let them help because it's all different and it's new for them.
Speaker 2:Next, I wanna talk about daily learning opportunities. What are daily learning opportunities and how do you use your proximity, playful redirection and redos as part of this?
Speaker 4:So I think it goes right along with what we were talking about, that not just us doing things, but explaining why we're doing things, how to do things, so that kids can learn from us. And then proximity is such a huge thing for kids, for animals I feel like I have a dog that has a broken leg, that's been in recovery, and I have to go out with her every time she goes outside, and so the only way I can keep her from running off or chasing a raccoon or something is if I just stay close to her. If I stay close to her, she'll stay close to me, but if I let her go out by herself she'll take off, and so much. We're the same way. If we just keep people close to us, you can intervene quickly and you can take care of things before they escalate.
Speaker 4:And I love playful redirection just to say, hey, I know you didn't just do that, or you didn't just say that or you didn't just. You know, always, my daughter, I know you didn't just put that dirty dish in the sink instead of in the dishwasher. And then I love Redoos, because a redo is just a chance to do it over right. We all need do overs all the time, and so, instead of lecturing someone about the way to do something, to give them the opportunity to actually practice doing it, the right way, it's going to teach them a lot more than you know talking about it or lecturing about it.
Speaker 2:I love Redoos too. Like so often, we tell kids what not to do and we forget to teach them what to do.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know kid comes up and says something disrespectful to you, like whoa. Let's try that again.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But this time ask me with respect. Yeah, if they ask you. With respect, it's all good right.
Speaker 5:I feel like that is the one I use the most with our kids, especially any of the kids we have that are lower on the social skills, because a lot of times they don't know that they genuinely thought they were asking it correctly and so a lot of times you might even you'll say, hey, let's try that again, and then if they do it, they still might not quite get it, and y'all talk about different ways, give them the phrases for the next time, because they just haven't really been taught that or they've been around and you know a lot of our, a lot of our kids that have like older grandparents. That is their family that's been, they've been with a lot of times. They talk like them. They'll be real gruff and they say it very, very direct because that's the way they've been communicated with, and so just teaching them that there is a softer way to say it is really beneficial with Redoos too, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I wanted to expand on proximity a little bit, you know, because proximity is an opportunity, right, proximity is how you know what's actually happening, you can see and that's how you get the opportunity to redirect or to teach something. You know, one of the things that we've talked about this in a lot of our other podcasts with.
Speaker 3:Mike especially, you know, because technology and we're not trying to harp on technology here but if you're staring at your phone and your kids is doing whatever, I mean, how can you teach? Right, you got to be there. So proximity is not just physical proximity, it's also paying attention, your awareness, because then that's what gives you the opportunity to to do what you need to do. And I like playful redirection, I like how you guys said hey, just rephrase your stuff. But one thing I do use every day because I take care of these my grandkids in the morning, because my dad works, and so I have a routine.
Speaker 3:We are strict on our routine. It's not necessarily time, but tasks. So when we get up, we get dressed. How do we do it? We've already taught that. Yay, so you know, now it's brushing your teeth. Now they're getting to where they can start doing their own teeth, right, and so, okay, when we're done, how do we do this? Teaching them how to open the faucet, Teaching them where to put the air. One new thing every day. And it's not like about redirection or behavior, it's just about instruction, we're just talking about it, even those little things.
Speaker 3:No, we don't put it here, we put it here you know, and it just creates every day is the same for us, Like no day is ever different. Then we go to the table and then we do the next thing, and so now it's a whole lot less, and I think that's that's true for everything, Even if we're dealing with less significant behaviors. Well, the more you've they've already gotten accustomed to how I'm going to redirect. Oh go, grandpa's going to tell me how to do this again. And then you got the opportunity and it just opens it up because now we have a relationship about it. So when I have to redirect on something else, now I know how to get. They know that they need to pay attention, and when I'm telling them that I'm going to be calm about it and just explain it. Unless I have things they're rocking into the street. I'm not doing that.
Speaker 4:That's right, that's right All right.
Speaker 2:Tell me next a little bit about natural consequences. What are natural consequences?
Speaker 4:So we confuse this one a lot too. We confuse natural consequences, which are things that would occur without any interference at all, with logical consequences, which is when we apply something to make it help someone learn. And so a natural consequence, you know, one of the ones that we always talk about is for you, where, if you don't wear a coat and it's cold outside, the natural consequence of that is that you're going to be cold. Right, we didn't have to do anything for you to feel cold. You didn't wear a jacket and you're not cold. And so natural consequences are a good way to learn. But often we don't feel like that's enough, which is why we start to apply logical consequences. But I think natural consequences can teach us probably most of what we need to know.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about timeouts, because I think this is pretty common discipline technique people do. What's the difference between a timeout and a time in, and why is that difference important?
Speaker 4:I think this is another one that, depending on the developmental and chronological age of the kid or a person, what's important is there's times we send kids out for a timeout when they need help calming down, and so we separate them from us, from the adult who should be the one to help regulate them or calm them down when they don't have the abilities to do so.
Speaker 4:So we might have a kid who's getting upset and we say go to your room. They go to the room and then they tear the room up and then we wonder why it didn't work. And often it's because they don't have the skills to calm themselves down and they need their caregiver or the adult next to them to be that calming agent. But sometimes you do need a space, right, you need a little bit of space, emotional space, physical space from one another so that you can calm down. So I think this one gets confusing to people, because sometimes you do need a timeout, which means you're separated from other people because that's how you calm down, and sometimes you need a time in where someone helps you actually calm down so that you can be successful.
Speaker 5:Yeah, like bringing them, bringing them closer, but also knowing when you need the timeout.
Speaker 5:So there has been times, apparently, that I'm like I am not in a space that I can be calm, so I'm going to timeout for me and so a lot of times I saying to them hey, I need to take a, I can't do this to right now, I'm going to be right back, mommy has to go do, and it's me taking deep breaths and then coming back because I don't want.
Speaker 5:But I laugh because a lot of times my son will go to his room and it's I've never sent him to it, but he wants to go play with toys and then he will come back and we will talk, and so it's always makes me laugh because it's his like little timeout he does for himself and it works. But you know, in recognizing it, there have been times, even with our kids here, that I've said, hey, I'm just, I'm going to go ahead and walk away because I'm frustrated and being vulnerable and owning like, hey, that, because that's modeling it for him right Like they're seeing hey, this adult decided to walk away instead of get heated or getting a power struggle with me.
Speaker 5:So they can see it. And it's also modeling that behavior for how they know how to react to others.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think we used to think that too right, that we were the adults so we couldn't show that we didn't know what we were doing or that we were getting upset or whatever, and instead of realizing there's more power in that and modeling what you want them to do, instead of acting different than what you want them to do. Yeah, and you know, both are good. Timeouts and time ends are good if you use them at the right time, you know, in the way that's helpful to that person.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about grounding. I'm guessing there's a difference on how you handle grounding when it comes to less significant behavior as opposed to more significant behaviors.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think you know, to me grounding is for more significant behaviors. I think that less significant behaviors can typically, if you're, you know, in close proximity, if you address things quickly, if you are curious about it, you're going to be able to address those less significant behaviors, usually just through conversation and modeling and intentional teaching. And I think for more significant behaviors, grounding would be. You know, there has to be a reason why you feel like this kid needs to not be able to participate in something in order for you to ground, and that might be because they've been harmful you know they might want to hurt somebody or they've been threatening something that you're concerned about, but there has to be more significant behavior for that to be appropriate, I think.
Speaker 5:Yeah, a lot of times I think of like shoplifting for this one, like okay, so maybe next time when we go, you either not going to go to the store or you're going to stand right next to me, like putting more parameters around it, right? And so I would think of a more significant behavior too. I, when it comes to grounding, yeah.
Speaker 3:And everybody's interpretation of grounding is different. Yeah, I don't you know, my mom's grounding was just I just can't leave the house.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that was for significant behavior. If I went somewhere without permission, I mean she can't trust me to walk the neighborhood, Okay. So, you're going to stay inside, but I didn't get everything taken away. I could still watch TV, I could still, you know, and I think it's all like having the consequence fit the crime, kind of thing. You know that that made sense to me. She explained to me I can't trust you to be out there, sammy. You went to a football game without my permission.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I thought my neighbor mom was going to tell you you know what I mean. I still didn't ask it doesn't matter, so I get it. So being grounded is all right, but other people's grounding is a whole different thing. You lose the whole world, and I don't know that that's completely appropriate either.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, Kind of like what we talked about earlier not taking everything. So I would like, similar to you, when I was grounded I couldn't leave and then I wouldn't. I also got TV taken away, but I would read or I would hang out with my parents or I could watch what they were watching. I just could not get my show at the time, so it was never like a complete isolation. Cause that's what I think you also have to remember is to bring them in closer at times that you do implement a grounding or things like that, that when the closer you can bring them in in times like that, the better that you're still getting that connection and they, they want to do better inherently so.
Speaker 3:That's it, you know, and that's what I, that's what I'd appreciate about my mom, about that Grounding being grounded is not fun.
Speaker 3:It wasn't fun not going outside and playing basketball with my friends. But you know my mom explained to me why it was important, that you know she had to go to work and I had to help with my brothers and stuff. But I did, I was a good kid, I did not listen. At the same time, I'm grounded right, so I knew I couldn't go outside, but she also my friends come over and so I wasn't completely cut off from the world. I didn't feel like I was just completely punished and I understood why, and I was probably like 14 or something. So I get it and I think that's what the parents got to think about. Is what? What does grounded mean to you and how long is it or how? You know, and you know she even let me off early for good behavior.
Speaker 1:So that might did too yeah.
Speaker 2:One thing one of my former supervisors told us when we were house parents was that for less significant behavior he always gave the example of like a kid doesn't clean their room. So what he would tell us to do is, well, just tell them until they clean their room, then they're grounded. Once they clean their room, they can have their privileges back. And he said that puts them in the position of power and control. And one things we know anger and aggression. The root of those are a lot of times fear and lack of power. So that way, kids in control, when they get their privileges back, if they go clean their room to win, win. You get what you want, the kid gets what they want and it's it keeps from getting into those power struggles, I think.
Speaker 4:Yeah, especially. I think that's way better than a timed consequence. You know, like you didn't clean your room so you're grounded for three days, instead of saying you know, once you clean your room you can go do whatever you know. And then I think that piece about bringing you know being relational, so you might restrict him from going out with their friends or driving or whatever you restrict him from, but then they're still a part of the family activities and they're still with you instead of being isolated.
Speaker 2:Do you think that there's maybe a downside to grounding being everything you do like a kid? Every time they do something, they get grounded for three weeks or something like that. I know. I know lots of parents that I feel like their kids are always grounded. Yeah.
Speaker 4:I do think so. I mean, just like we talked about earlier, was that you know it's create a hopelessness where, no matter what I do, I'm never going to win, I'm never going to get out of being grounded, I'm always going to screw up. And so what's the use in trying? And it doesn't really take a lot for us to get to that point. You know, once you just feel like you're a failure or I can't, I've tried and it doesn't work, there's not a lot that you're going to keep trying for. So I do think it gets you again into that situation where you're taking everything away and there's nothing left because it's not working.
Speaker 2:All right, Thank you for spending some time with us today and come back next week when we're going to discuss discipline and more serious behaviors. So until then, remember you might have to loan out your front of lobes today. Just make sure you remember to get them back.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to Brain Based Parenting. We hope you enjoyed this show. If you would like more information about Cal Folly's Boys Ranch, our interested in employment would like information about placing your child, or would like to help us help children by donating to our mission, please visit CalFollyorg. You can find us on all social media platforms by searching for Cal Folly's. Thank you for spending your time with us and have a blessed day.