Why This Generation Stopped Believing and How We Can Change That

We begin a new series on faith formation exploring three critical conditions for spiritual development in a disenchanted generation: encounters with nature, the power of community, and the role of fathers. Recent research reveals spirituality provides remarkable protective factors against life's most serious challenges.

• Children who are spiritually engaged are 80% less likely to become addicted to drugs or alcohol
• Spiritual engagement correlates with 60% less likelihood of experiencing major depression
• Those spiritually engaged are 82% less likely to commit suicide
• Today's generation has become disenchanted with faith due to cultural shifts, church hurts, and hypocrisy
• Nature experiences provide "signals of transcendence" that awaken us to something greater
• Community counteracts isolation and provides diverse spiritual perspectives
• Intergenerational relationships are crucial for spiritual development
• Fathers provide children's earliest template for understanding God
• Single parents can intentionally create community with positive spiritual role models
• Digital technology and indoor lifestyles have disrupted natural spiritual pathways

Join us next week as we continue this discussion and explore the steps in the spiritual journey that lead to faith formation.

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Transcript

Introduction to Faith Formation Series

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is, and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience and professional training Cal Farley's Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, cal Farley's Staff Development Coordinator, joshua Sprock.

Speaker 3 0:30

Hello and welcome. Today we're going to start a new series on faith formation. To do that today, I'm joined by Chloe Hewitt, Youth Programs Administrator.

Speaker 2 0:37

Cole Smith. I work in the Transitional.

Speaker 5 0:39

Living Program Mike Wilhelm. I'm Director of Faith-Based Outreach.

Speaker 6 0:42

Suzanne Wright. I'm the Vice President of Training and Intervention.

Speaker 3 0:46

All right. So for our question of the day, we're going to do something a little bit different. I'm going to give you guys a quiz, a pop quiz you guys excited yeah. To do it, though. I'm going to read the question Suzanne, chloe and Cole you're going to answer, and then Mike, if you can tell them they got the answer right or not. Sound fair, all right. So question one true or false? The most recent MRI studies show that the human brain is hardwired for spirituality. What do you guys think, true or false?

Speaker 1 1:15

True True, I think it's true.

Speaker 5 1:17

Correct answer Drum roll, please, all right. Correct answer is true.

Speaker 3 1:23

Nice. All right, well done, good way to start, all right. Number two the human capacity for spirituality is third innate and two-thirds environmental. What do you guys think True or false?

Speaker 2 1:33

I'm going to stick with true.

Speaker 6 1:34

I'm going to go true. I'm a little concerned that it's flipped, that it's actually two-thirds innate and one-third environment. But due to peer pressure, I'm going to agree and say true with y'all.

Speaker 5 1:45

All right, what do you think? Okay, correct answer is true. Okay, suzanne, good thing you followed the peer pressure in the room.

Speaker 2 1:52

That's positive peer culture right there.

Speaker 3 1:55

Positive peer culture at work. All right. Question three true or false? People who are spiritually engaged are 80% less likely to become addicted to drugs and alcohol. True, true, true.

Speaker 4 2:06

I'm going to say true, but I kind of wonder if it's higher. You think it's a trick question, I do. I think it's higher than 80, so let's see.

Speaker 5 2:13

Okay, Listeners, what you cannot see right now is Mrs Hewitt is giving me this eye of distrust, like she thinks we're going to try to pull something on her Correct answer is true and probably should qualify that. I think Dr Miller's work would say that children spiritually engaged, compounded with the spiritual engagement of their parent, and that the two work in concert together but give thema protective factor against addiction to drugs or alcohol of 80%. So in this type of work, which you all know, those are crazy numbers you just don't ever see. And in fact they just checked and double-checked and triple-checked because at first they thought it couldn't be possible. But that's held up. So 80% less likely. There you go All right Question.

Speaker 3 2:59

four people who are spiritually engaged are 60% less likely to experience major depression.

Speaker 2 3:05

True. I'm going to say true and just stick with the pattern.

Speaker 4 3:09

I'll go true too.

Speaker 5 3:09

Survey says Chloe, you still look so unsure.

Speaker 4 3:13

I am yeah.

Speaker 5 3:15

You seem anxious over there I don't like losing. Correct answer is true and just to be clear, yeah, 60% less likely. Those spiritually engaged 60% less likely to experience major depression, and Dr Miller would say that's not to say that would not experience just those slumps, more mild slumps of depression, but 60% less likely to have that big, major deal breaker event. That seems to set the trip cord in such a way that then it becomes more of a recurring thing and there's a 60% less likely factor for those spiritually engaged.

Speaker 3 3:53

There you go All right, you guys are doing really good Four for four. Last question See if you can get a perfect score. People who are spiritually engaged are 82% less likely to commit suicide True.

Speaker 2 4:03

True.

Speaker 3 4:04

True, did they pass 100%?

The Protective Power of Faith Quiz

Speaker 5 4:06

Yeah, they did pass. Yeah, and probably to be even most accurate, children spiritually engaged with a spiritually engaged parent, that together that gives them a protective factor 82% less likely to commit suicide. That's a wow, isn't?

Speaker 1 4:23

it. It is a wow yeah less likely to commit suicide.

Speaker 5 4:24

That's a wow, isn't it? In fact, Dr Miller would say if you told, if you told, if you advertise that you had a purple pill, that would help your child be 80% less likely to become addicted to drugs and alcohol, 82% less likely to commit suicide, 60% less likely to have severe recurring depression. Well, you'd probably line up in the rain and wait for days in line to be able to purchase a pill like depression. Well, you'd probably line up in the rain and wait for days in line to be able to purchase a pill like that, wouldn't you? And so the findings are in that, yeah, if we fortify the spiritual core of the kids, there's a great protective factor involved with some of those negative outcomes. Thanks, Josh Good quiz.

Speaker 3 5:00

Yeah, it's a fun way to start the day of the pop quiz. All right, so let's jump into it. So have you ever wondered why some people seem to have strong, unshakable faith, while others struggle to even believe that God is real? Today we're going to start a series we are calling Faith-Forming Essentials for a Disenchanted Generation. Today, we're going to be talking about the three of the most critical conditions encounters with nature, the power of community and the role of fathers. And if you're feeling disenchanted or disconnected from God, there's a good chance one of these conditions might be missing in your life or the lives of your kids. So let's start with maybe asking why do you think this generation has become so disenchanted with faith and the church? Chloe?

Speaker 5 5:36

this is not a quiz anymore, okay. So just your test anxiety. Just put it to rest, okay.

Speaker 4 5:42

You know I think so I've got thoughts, mike, but I'm also very intrigued to hear yours. I think we've seen a shift in our culture in a lot of ways. I think that, unfortunately, our divorce hate is at an all-time high, and then we have instant gratification that's promoted in our culture, whether that's social media or even TV, or even with everything microwaves our phones at our fingertips, even TV, or even with everything microwaves our phones at our fingertips. So I think some of that has caused us to struggle, valuing church as a whole, and I think that even our pastor at our church was recently telling us that a regular attender now is someone that goes every six to eight weeks instead of someone that goes every week from when we were kids, and so I think that resonated with me as a culture and where we're shifting, and so that's my thoughts on some of it.

Speaker 6 6:28

I think a lot of people have been hurt in some way in the context of church, whether they felt manipulated or left out, or they didn't receive love and care when they went through a difficult situation, and so the place that you would expect that you would find belonging and care and concern and love and support to help you through a problem instead let you down, and I think a lot of people have left churches because of situations like that.

Speaker 2 6:55

So I'm going to throw out one of my theories that especially the Christian faith has always flourished when it has been on the margins or outside seats of power, and I think especially in Western American church right now, the Christian faith is kind of, at least nominally, in all of the seats of power, and I mean has been for generations now, and so the promises and that the younger generations are hoping to see fulfilled or expected, now it feels like, okay, the Christian faith has been in the seats of power for the history of our country. Why are we in this position and not looking any more like the teachings of Jesus whenever we've had our hands on the reins for the history of kind of the?

Speaker 6 7:39

American experiment. That's really insightful, Cole. That's a deep thought.

Speaker 2 7:43

Yeah, and I don't know that there's research that backs that up, but it certainly could be a question of people who have been claiming the Christian faith have been in charge for the last 250 years.

Speaker 6 7:54

And how's that worked out for us? Yeah.

Speaker 2 7:56

And why don't we look any more like the kingdom of God that Jesus is talking about?

Speaker 3 8:00

And I wonder how many of those people who are in charge or in the seats of power that you talked about are actually, in name only, christians and I think that's a hard thing for the world to believe is people who say they're one thing, but their lives and actions and everything says something completely different.

Speaker 2 8:15

Yeah, I think that's why it's so hard when in our country, in our context, where Christianity is not on the margins and it is an easy thing to proclaim it's almost an expected thing to proclaim and a lot of you know we're in the Bible Belt here, so it's very comfortable and easy to say I'm a Christian, I go to church, without that affecting too much of the rest of your life.

Speaker 5 8:36

Yeah, no, it's a good point, but I think then, even bigger than that, there's been a divorce in thought that's really baked into institutions, our secular institutions, if you will, education that has an anti-religion bias. So kids are trying to navigate that and it's I mean not to get too super technical but it's an extreme material, reductionist view of things. Okay, if I can't see it and measure it, then it must not be real. Okay, so you have that in play.

Speaker 5 9:08

And then meanwhile, as far as religion goes, like Cole said, there's hypocrisy and a power of the gospel which is really unconditional. Love and practice and forgiveness and especially being with those on the margins will probably drop the ball there. So those two things together and even Josh, the question the margins will probably drop the ball there. So those two things together and even, josh, the question you asked why is the generation disenchanted with faith and the church? That's a good distinction, because we're talking really about two things. We're talking about faith or spirituality and religion, and they support each other or they work off each other, but they're two separate things each other or they work off each other, but they're two separate things. And so I think even that question is kind of good to think about personal faith and how I'm experiencing God, or if God feels real to me, and then how that's supported in community, with traditions and things through others, through religion, through the church, if you will.

Speaker 3 10:00

What about the cultural obsession with self-love? How does that hinder spiritual formation?

Speaker 4 10:24

in Christ, and so you know we are saved by Him and we need Him. But our culture is saying that you can kind of take care of yourself and be the best version of yourself without needing Him, and I think that's a battle that we face.

Speaker 5 10:30

Yeah, I don't know how to wrap my head around that. I'm probably just starting to show my age, but you know to hear interviews of celebrities and different things and I need to do me or things like that that are said and I don't know what to make of that. Because there is to love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind, strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. There is this thing about a love of self. That's a good thing, respecting being created by God, and that's sacred and self-care, and not self-loathing and neglecting yourself. On the other hand, that focusing on me doing me.

Speaker 5 11:07

I don't know if I want to have me doing me but me doing me isn't always such a great idea, and sometimes maybe that's narcissistic and gets me stuck in patterns that aren't loving towards others, so I don't know what you guys think about that. Yeah, so the old guy just threw that out there.

Speaker 3 11:23

Well, we're reading through the Bible right now, doing the chronological one, and one of the things we're reading has been talking about idols and idolatry, and I think a lot of it is that I mean we should love ourselves because we are created in the image of God. I think that's good, but I think it's the order in which we put things. I think that cultural obsession with self-love is we put ourselves above our place, where God should be the number one, not ourselves. I wonder what do you guys think about that?

Speaker 4 11:47

Yeah, and I mean I even think it says putting you know, you put God and then you put others and then yourself. So I think it's even that order too right. It's not necessary. But we are selfish beings. I mean, we still want what we want and I think it goes into the instant gratification. We want it and we want it quick, and that's kind of and so really just keeping that in check.

Speaker 2 12:04

I think it also works really closely with kind of the individualistic nature of American society, western society that's a lot more individualistic as opposed to communal, that most of human history has been a very communal experience and that focus on me doesn't respect the interdependence that we all have with each other and that extends to our dependence and our relationship with God. I had a professor at college who's always one of my favorite quotes he ever said was the original sin that we see in the Bible is trying to be the source of our own security. And I think in our modern context we see that with the rise of needing to control and the rise of anxiety and all of the other things that we're kind of experiencing in our individual, hyper individual, anti-communal or anti-community world is we want to be the source of our own security, we take care of things for us, we've got it all under control and the world and the earth is just too big and our experience is just too big for us to have it under control.

Speaker 5 13:04

I love what you just said, cole, and that just plays huge as far as listeners thinking about faith formation in their kids, how important community is. And yeah, we are living in a world that shifted and it really has infected the thought in the church, where it's become my working out, my salvation, is super into. It's all about me as an individual and it is quite a neglect of community. And the extreme that you described, cole I just read this the other day Cynicism as far as meaning that a low trust level of other people.

Speaker 5 13:39

Not only is that bad for our spiritual growth, it's bad for our health. The higher levels of cynicism lead to shorter lifespans. And cynicism as far as not trusting others. So what you just said just shows in God's economy and His wisdom, why it is so important that we really have one another. So obsession with an individual approach to life and to God and to neighbor just doesn't seem to match the pattern of the Bible. Neighbor just doesn't seem to match the pattern of the Bible and it doesn't seem to line up even with our biology, does it?

Speaker 3 14:10

So how does spiritual formation happen? Is it spontaneous or are there conditions that help lead kids to a relationship with Christ?

Speaker 4 14:16

Well, I think what Wilhelm just said is the community is so important, right? And Suzanne's talked about this a little bit in previous podcasts, about how she had people in her kids' lives that could pour into them, right, and Suzanne's talked about this a little bit in previous podcasts, about how she had people in her kids' lives that could pour into them, right, and I think about that so much as a young mom like that. We're in two groups. We have a group within our church, but then we also have a group outside of that that we started before our kids were born that were all believers. So I feel very blessed that my kids will be raised with other kids and be in both community groups that can pour into them. So I think that, but also a personal relationship with Christ, I think you have to have both.

Speaker 6 14:49

I think, as parents, you have to be very intentional to set that culture in your home. I knew a mother once who said well, we're not going to talk to our kids at all about God or Jesus, and when they're old enough they can decide on their own. And I thought, wow, you're really missing the opportunity, because that void is going to be filled by a lot of worldly things and it would be hard later in life to step in and share the love of God when that void's been filled by things that are very ungodly. So I think it's parents who are walking the walk and talking the talk and, you know, surrounding their children with a love of the Lord from birth forward.

Speaker 4 15:28

I have a short story, but it reminds me that my kids remember their faith already at ages three and six, below my mind. But last Friday we had horrible wind in the area and so my daughter looked at me early on in the day, the first wind gust, and said Mom, will you pray for us and pray for Dad, because he's a firefighter and so he was on shift and was working wrecks. And I just thought how profound is that. And then all day she would say God, I know you can stop this wind. And so it just made me realize that I was thankful for our church, our community, but also that at three she already could verbalize that in a storm.

Speaker 3 16:02

I think we underestimate the importance and power we as parents play on what our kids believe and things just don't magically happen. They're paying attention to us and if we don't give them, aren't prepared to give them answers, then I think they'll seek them other places, but they primarily want to come to us first.

Speaker 5 16:18

And to your question about is that faith formation? How does it happen? Spontaneous? Are there conditions? And I mean, I guess I'd humbly offer this up One it's all God's grace, okay. Without His grace faith wouldn't be possible. Are there those wow poof moments that God breaks through that are just supernatural? Unexpected? Well, I sure think so, yes. Natural unexpected? Well, I sure think so, yes. But on the other hand, are there conditions? When we go back to the quiz about one-third and eight two-thirds, socialized community is very responsible for providing optimum conditions, because faith does grow in ideal conditions, and so there's a responsibility on our part as parents and advocates to provide those conditions, and so there's a responsibility on our part as parents and advocates to provide those conditions. So you got two things in play.

Speaker 3 17:08

So how do you think encounters with nature can impact our spiritual lives?

Speaker 6 17:12

Whenever I see nature, I'm always struck by wow, look what the Lord created, and it's evidence of His love for me. Just this morning, as I drove into work and I watched the sunrise, I'm always just struck by that, you know. So when I don't spend a lot of time out in nature right, We've talked on here before I'm not a camper. I don't want to be in that kind of nature right In a tent or anything, but anytime you're outside and you see a sunrise or a sunset, or mountains or a body of water especially because those are lacking, you know in this part of the country where we live.

Speaker 6 17:44

But those things, truly, always, just, are a reminder to me that God created nature for our enjoyment and for our pleasure.

Why Today's Generation is Disenchanted with Faith

Speaker 4 17:54

I think of. Anytime I go outside I feel like it calms me and centers me. But I've also watched that as a mom that at times when there is pure chaos in my house, getting them outside, it does the same for them, and so that does remind me of Christ. Right, like that I'm calmer and I feel better outside.

Speaker 2 18:11

I feel like nature moves at a different speed than the rest of our life. It's not a thousand things pulling for our attention, it's not quickly moving from one thing to the next. Nature seems to have a pace that is relaxing to it and I think a big part of you know spiritual formation and growth is the attention that you give to it, and nature doesn't seem to divide our attention like technology, all the things inside that are loud and don't force you to come to your own thoughts.

Speaker 2 18:38

It's very hard to listen when surrounded by all the things that we surround ourselves with, but nature kind of allows your attention to kind of, I guess, go at a spiritual speed.

Speaker 5 18:48

This listeners might be interested to know. We're actually grieving on our campus. Today we got our campus community with a few hundred people staff and kids and all organization email came out. Turbo the pig died today and a 14-year-old favorite celebrity on our campus. Turbo used to take long naps and let the baby goats crawl up on him and he is a favorite with the kids and things like that make this place here special.

Speaker 5 19:17

And troubling. Or concern about where we're at right now as a culture is what we're living very separated from our natural habitat and from creation. Even kids that live in rural towns if you track them through the day and try to log how many hours they might have been on the grass under the sun, around the trees, and it'd be very, very, very small. They're in artificial settings all through the day. And then, on top of that, we're living in a digital world for a few hours a day.

Speaker 5 19:50

And back to Cole, your point, that digital world, as astonishing as it is and as much as it is a benefit to humanity, and there's lots of upside to it.

Speaker 5 20:01

The stuff the algorithms do what they're supposed to do and there's not much mystery to it, although with me it's always an adventure, as IT would probably vouch for that. But nature is different and there was a fellow named Peter Berger that did some work and disenchanted generation as we live in a world that just seems very, we think, is so predictable and controllable and has lost its wonder to get out and experience things like you mentioned, chloe, and to be outdoors or that campfire or whatever he would call those signals of transcendence. You could study in the classroom what everything that Michael Faraday said about combustion and a flame and whatnot, and reduce it to particles and motion and formulas and know it upside and down. But to go sit by a campfire, then there's suddenly, there's a different knowing that you could never have gotten out of a book, and it really does lift you beyond just the stuff and awakens us to more.

Speaker 3 21:01

Can you think of a time when nature helped you feel closer to God?

Speaker 4 21:04

So for me it's not necessarily, it is a time, but it's anytime I'm in the mountains. I grew up going to a church camp in New Mexico, in Las Vegas. New Mexico, and it still, to this day, is my favorite place on earth, and so anytime I'm in the mountains I went to family camp. Every year I went to church camp. It's where I was baptized, was in a river there, and so I just feel when I am in the mountains I am closer, and I feel that way now and I'm very excited because we're taking our kids there this summer and I just, it's just, there's no place like it.

Speaker 2 21:30

Yeah, and cell phone service conveniently doesn't work in a lot of places in the mountains. I feel like, as I was coming out of high school and college right around when cell phones people were becoming smartphones in that time period, going to places where it didn't work was really conducive to some spiritual experiences.

Speaker 3 21:48

So in what ways can we encourage young people to connect more with nature, especially as many of them live in urbanized settings or often indoors, connected with technology?

Speaker 4 21:56

I think us as parents are just really encouraged them to get outside every day. But I think that that also is role modeled right, Like I can't ask them to go outside without going outside with them. No matter what age they are, they still want to be close to you or want you in some proximity, but also they are going to watch how I interact. So if I'm spending time outside each day and show that value, that will be important to them. But I also think we have to limit it, because they're going to want to be on their phones and do those things.

Speaker 2 22:20

But I think signing them up for activities that are outdoor too, or vacationing outdoors, all those things- yeah, it's much easier for me to get my kids to engage in anything outside if I invite them to come do it with me, as opposed to tell them to go play outside while I'm doing something else. I mean, it's nine day. If I say, hey, you want to go jump on the trampoline, oh, I want to watch screens, I'm tired. If I say I'm going to go jump on the trampoline, suddenly there's a line of kids to jump on the trampoline and then I might get hurt by the end of it.

Speaker 6 22:48

It's because you're so much fun, Cole.

Speaker 2 22:49

Yeah, that's what I'm known for is the fun.

Speaker 5 22:53

I like this question, josh, because the I don't know. I've looked at the statistics I'm sure you all have too on screen time and how much screen time is like maximum advisable screen time for kids now, and it seems like they're running about two hours over on average the last statistics that I've seen. So, unfortunately, it seems like most people. Then, if they start to be annoyed or concerned about kids on the screens too much, well, what do you do? Well, you gripe at the kids, right, and then, in probably worst cases, you gripe at them as you're on your phone, right, and so you're a hypocrite griping at your kid. This is just the perfect setup for the best. I mean, I've always heard. Instead, our job is, if they're stuck into their phones, we'll show them something better. Yeah, and, like Cole, like you said, it's come alongside and come with, and so it's something better and there's tons of possibilities, right. So, yeah, take advantage of that.

Speaker 6 23:53

You know, our brains are wired for reward and we've talked about this on this podcast before and the most rewarding thing to your brain is a positive relationship with another human being. But in the absence of positive relationship, your brain will seek reward wherever it can find it, and so that could be, you know, drugs, sex, alcohol, vandalism, you know whatever that is. But also our brains get little dopamine hits from our phones, you know. And so, to take the place you can't just take a phone away Just like Mike said, it needs to be replaced with relationship, and not a relationship that is constantly barking and griping and complaining at you, but a relationship that's rewarding to you. And, just like Cole said, it's no wonder that kids want to spend time with a loving parent who's willing to engage in activity with them, rather than you guys. Go outside, you know, and the parent locks the door and the kids aren't allowed, you know, allowed in until dinnertime, I mean. So that relationship can take the place of a lot of this technology, other things that we think are negative.

Speaker 3 24:56

It's kind of interesting. I'm getting ready to finish my time as direct care of my kids. They're getting ready to graduate and my wife and I were talking just the other day about some of our memories with our kids and all of them were camping trips outside, playing, watching soccer games. I don't think once we said our our favorite memories were playing on the switch or we or whatever, or playing games on computers. It was all outdoor, nature type things. So in the short term I think we we connect with those technology things just because it gets us through something, but in the long run it's those, those nature. I think that really are the lasting core memories that I really look back on and value.

Speaker 5 25:33

Yeah, and I couldn't stress enough how this is all a precursor to be the kind of person that is able to believe that immersion in nature. So I know if you're a parent listening and concerned about where your kid's at with the whole God thing. Usually what we'll try to do is just jump in and lecture or maybe browbeat them with the Bible and hit them with a heavy dose of religion. I just don't think you could overstress how important it is just the habitat that we're in, how we experience our day, how closely we would live and experience with and experience nature that is awakening us to, where belief resonates with us and seems, yeah, I could see that that's possible. So, yeah, I couldn't encourage it highly enough.

Speaker 3 26:21

So in what ways does being part of a community help deepen our spiritual growth?

Speaker 6 26:25

You know, I think it's one thing for children to hear about faith from their family, but it's a completely different thing for a community of believers to share the same message with your children. I know there were times, you know, when my kids were growing up and I would try to share a moment, or you know some bits of wisdom, and I got an eye roll and then they would hear the same thing from an aunt or another member of church and that mom, you're not going to believe what so-and-so said, I'm like it's the same thing I've been saying, right?

Speaker 6 26:57

But it's one thing to know that your parents believe, but it's another thing to be immersed in a community of believers, and I just think it's really powerful.

Speaker 4 27:06

Yeah, I mean I think there's nothing like I think we're meant for community.

Speaker 4 27:09

I mean it feels good, I also think in every aspect of my life, watching my daughter. We did a series on Joseph at church and there's a variety of people that teach and the kids I teach one Sunday, but she can recite all of Joseph's life to you right now and it's the funniest thing to sit there and watch her tell you all about it and she's obsessed with Joseph right now and so but that's because she went on Sundays and went on Wednesdays and they reviewed it, and so it's just interesting. She's getting a community through her group and so but I think even for me as a mom, like I'm sitting there having community with other moms and when I'm like, hey, I'm struggling with this, I'm getting ideas from them as other believers in Christ, and telling me, hey, this is what we're doing right now and that's what I've seen and I'll pray for you. So that community to me is when I'm still seeking advice. I'm seeking advice from other people that are like-minded, and so I think that's important too.

Speaker 5 27:58

You know, with this, stress enough the importance of a healthy community of believers, a healthy church. I'm going to also say and this might surprise some but boy, a toxic religious setting could actually be a big faith setback. Those that seem to. Maybe the religious setting is a sanction way to be angry, people not loving people there's plenty of that around. I think that's a big hazard. I think that religion should support the spiritual growth of a kid. But a toxic setting is going to be harmful. And on the other hand, there are unbelievers who practice unconditional love. That actually will enrich your child's spiritual growth and they will benefit from those relationships. So to have a number of relationships, religious or non-religious, in a child's life that practice unconditional love, that see the value in the individual based on who they are, not what they do, and that communicate eye contact, voice to voice and practice forgiveness the more of those relationships a child has, the easier it is for them to believe in God. There's definitely connections that way. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 2 29:13

Cole, yeah, I mean absolutely. You know we live 45 minutes away from the church, that we've gone to all of my kids' life and so a lot of Sunday mornings are chores to go. Get them to go, be involved and participate because it means getting up earlier and going and sitting in the car, but it's always the easiest way to get them going is to remind them who they're getting to see, who consistently pour into them each time they're there.

Speaker 2 29:37

And it's. Sometimes it's their teachers, but it's not necessarily even their teachers, not the ones providing the lesson. It's the ones who give them high fives and ask them how they're doing, and check in with them every Sunday and have us over at their house. It's all of those people that, hey, I know it's not your favorite, I know it's a long drive, I know we're getting up on a Sunday and going to do something instead of coming to rest, but you get to see these people and okay, you're right and like they can get excited about going to see those people.

Speaker 4 30:11

I think it's kind of that old phrase that you know people don't remember what you do, they remember how you made them feel, and so I think that that goes in line with exactly what you were talking about, that we just remember how we felt around them.

Speaker 3 30:15

So why do you think isolation is so detrimental to spiritual development, and what are the dangers of trying to do faith on your own?

Speaker 6 30:21

I read a statement that said don't believe everything you think Right. And so don't believe everything you think Right. And so you know, sometimes we have negative thoughts or we misperceive things and you can really get in your head and swirl that into something that it's not. When you're isolated and so you know we've talked about the benefits of community and isolation is just it can be really negative. And trying to do faith on your own was never God's plan right. He created us in His image to be in community, in relationship with other people. And again, just like Chloe said, you know, when you're struggling with one of your kids, you may think, oh, I'm a bad parent, or this kid is worse than everybody else's kid, you know. And then you talk to other humans who are all struggling in the same way and you find out you're not alone and it alleviates some of that guilt and it gives you hope.

Speaker 6 31:18

I used to have a friend that would say this I'd be frustrated with my oldest child and my friend would say it's just a stage, and you know what she was right every single time. It was always just a stage and we always got through it. And you know what she was right every single time. It was always just a stage and we always got through it. And I told her one time, the first time this isn't just a stage, I'm sending this kid to live with you and guess what?

Speaker 4 31:37

I never had to do that. Yeah, I mean, I think what you said was beautiful. I think God is relational he intended on that and I think that we should be in relation with others and with God, and so I love church because you're around other people, but I also love worship. Worship with others is my favorite thing in the entire world on Sundays, but one of my favorite things to do on Sundays also. My husband's schedule is various, and so sometimes we're at church together, sometimes we're not, but my favorite thing to do if we're in church together is be like hey, what do you think, what are your thoughts? Because he's so insightful Even today before I've talked to him about a lot of these questions because I love his perception on things, and so it gets me thinking more or thought provokes me, and I think that's great when you can do that with others.

Speaker 5 32:15

Yeah, this isolation. Like you said, chloe, god created us as social beings. I mean, that's just crystal clear and there's okay. We need to put to rest the idea that a toxic religious setting is a good thing. Okay, that's always going to be a bad thing. And there's just plenty of that out there that would portray God as having anger issues and punitive, and then people are labeled and it almost seems like a sanctioned way to hate. There's a lot of that around, so let's put that aside, but there's a temptation to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Nature's Role in Spiritual Development

Speaker 5 32:54

Religion plays a very important role. I saw I think it was a Barna poll, but it talked about the spiritual but not religious category of people. Okay, and people that believe in God and they're doing their spirituality thing, but kind of doing it in isolation. I guess, on one hand, it might be a positive that there's a lot of folks that maybe not at church but they're spiritual and that's good, and there's work you could do individually. I don't discount that at all. However, the poll also showed the amount of time during the week that people thought about God. Well, those that were doing the Lone Ranger thing huge drop off from those that were engaged in community. So I just could never recommend the going it alone thing for lots of reasons. I was just thinking. Dietrich Bonhoeffer said we kind of need both of the things. We need some withdrawal time to reflect and to be alone with God. But then for the sake of re-engagement in community, he says let him who cannot be alone beware of community, let him who is not in community beware of being alone.

Speaker 4 33:57

I also think about mentorship here, right Like we're meant to mentor others and we're meant to have a mentor, and I really think of 2 Timothy with that. That Paul pushed into Timothy mentored him and then really wrote, and so I think that's very interesting in this piece that you should mentor younger kids, younger people, and then also look for a mentor that's older and wiser, that can feed into you as well.

Speaker 3 34:19

When I think of this isolation piece, so, when it comes to community, what are some practical ways to build deeper, more meaningful spiritual relationships?

Speaker 5 34:27

Try to find ways to experience intergenerational relationships, and all of you in the room here are raising or have raised small children and you know the magic of those kids having those silver-haired friends right, unfortunately. Just think about if we're not intentional. Someone mentioned the word intent. Suzanne, you mentioned intentional earlier.

Speaker 2 34:52

If we're not intentional.

Speaker 5 34:53

the way that our life tends to happen is we're age segregated throughout the day most of the time, and even our churches can be that way. So I would make a big case for, hey, let's find ways to have intergenerational things happening for the sake of the kids, for all of our sake. So maybe you've got some ideas of how that's best has happened for y'all.

Speaker 6 35:14

I agree that sometimes in churches we are segregated by age. Right, all the young singles have a class together and the young couples with little kids have a class together, and I feel like I, and my family as well, have always benefited from opportunities where it was a mixed group right, there were some young singles with some young married, with some middle-aged, with some grandparents. You know, just because you're getting to hear things from a different perspective and a different vantage point, and I think you have to again intentionally create some of that. If you just wait around for it to happen, it may not, so you have got to seek out relationships and opportunities. I feel like I've always gravitated towards women who were maybe 10 to 15 years older than me because they had so much wisdom and experience right, and so they've already been through whatever I'm in the middle of now, and it was always really helpful as a parent, as a young wife, just as a working mom, it was helpful to have those perspectives.

Speaker 3 36:14

One of the ways I've found to build community with my family is not to just be a consumer at church, but also to get out and serve. I think some of the most powerful relationships I've built with people has been participating in volunteer activities in our church or helping with Vacation, bible School or all those different things, and intentionally bringing my kids alongside me with them and showing them the importance of that service and what value that is to other people has been a really good way to get connected to one another.

Speaker 4 36:41

Yeah, I think that's so valuable. I volunteered at RVBS last summer and I was. It was really neat because they had a lady who was probably in her late fifties and was, and she would do the lesson for the kids, and so my job was I had the pre-K to five like 18 of them by myself, and that was the four and five year olds. So, and so it was. But what was neat about it is that because she was a teacher, she could tell a lesson like I had never seen anybody in my life do, and she could get them all to listen, and so I loved listening to the lesson just as much as the kids did. And so they had different people that were volunteering and we were all different ages and different seasons of life. But one of my kids' favorite persons at our church is a lady and she is a greeter, but she also teaches in the back on the third Sundays and my kids adore her and she pours into my kids and doesn't. So it's just the neatest thing.

Speaker 5 37:31

We're all different ages so we used to some with the youth group we worked with. We used to take them out and do home visits occasionally where we visited senior saints in town. Okay, one of the things that the kids did is that we had that, they had an interview sheet and they interviewed their friend. It was just magic because you know what was your first job, how did you meet your wife, what was dating like, and the kids were just enthralled with their senior friends, just love to tell the stories, and so those were very meaningful nights and real special relationships formed and it does ultimately lead to, I think, the kids feel safer, they start to have more meaningful friendships and connections that cross different generations and it's just good for their overall development, spiritual and otherwise. But those are some fun nights that we did interviewing senior saints.

Speaker 3 38:25

So the next section we're going to look at is the importance of fathers. So what do you think is the role of fathers in spiritual growth?

Speaker 4 38:31

I think it's huge. You know, I was telling my husband this morning that I feel like they have such a big role because they are the leaders of the house and the role models and they provide the spiritual guidance for the kids. And I models and they provide the spiritual guidance for the kids and I think and not that it's not our job as moms, that's not what I mean but I think that they really do have a big weight on their shoulders and we do too in a different aspect. But yeah, I think they are very much the leaders of the household and so I think they have a huge role on the healthy development of the kids as well. It's not necessarily just spiritually, but all around. Their role is so vital in our kids' lives.

Speaker 6 39:00

You know we talk about God as our Father and so there's so many references to God, the Father, in the Bible and for children who don't have an active participating father in the home or who've had a negative relationship with a father that can impact their view of God. They may not see God as a loving, caring father if their physical father hasn't also portrayed those traits, and I think sometimes that confusing and it's a stumbling block for kiddos and adults.

Speaker 5 39:30

You child care experts in the room could help me through this. But that mother attachment is primary, as that child is grown in the womb and heartbeat and all that that. Those connections are so deep and innate from conception forward. And then the first. You know normally and I know life happens sometimes in just different, unexpected ways or unfortunate ways but you know, if mom and dad are together, well, that father will be maybe the first, biggest, most significant new person to be introduced to, to start to form connection.

Speaker 2 40:05

Am I right on that Really.

Speaker 5 40:07

I know that our Christian faith speaks of God in patriarchal language and male terms and you know, doesn't mean God is biologically that way, but that's how our Bible speaks of God. But I think for good reason. I think some get really nervous about the patriarchal language, some even want to do away with that. God really is that who has given us life and birth and at the same time you know our natural surroundings are most familiar to us and then we're introduced to God in a very similar way, like as a father. So I think the language is good, but for those very reasons that father piece can be a deal breaker with kids.

Speaker 5 40:49

If that father piece has, for unfortunate reasons, has really been messed up, I think you would find your category of atheism is very heavily leans towards males. Of the males that are atheists, paul Witts has done the numbers and he would suggest that 90% have had failed fathers. And when he says failed fathers, that might be a father who's abusive or absent, awol, or by unfortunate reasons, maybe when the boy was young a father died of cancer. Well, that's not the dad's fault but nonetheless that failed experience through the child's eyes starts to make the whole God piece, creates dissonance. So that healthy male plays a very big role, especially if you believe the work that Paul Witts did. It plays a huge role in the spiritual development of the children.

Speaker 3 41:41

So what other challenges then would there be of faith development in a world where fatherlessness is so prevalent?

Speaker 4 41:47

You know, I also think that there's a direct correlation between the father's attendance to church and his relationship with Christ, into how active the children are in the church or even how their relationship looks. Kind of like what Mike was saying it very much. There's a big correlation in that. So that can be a challenge too, because they've recently you know we were talking about this in our small group recently that there's even more so of a correlation with the fathers than the mothers. So even if I attend regularly and it's very important to me, if my husband doesn't or whatever reason, if it's a single mom, that there is a correlation doesn't mean that that will necessarily always be true, but they have seen that there's a correlation there.

Speaker 3 42:21

So what would you recommend like for single moms out there where a father isn't present?

Speaker 6 42:25

I think, in the same way we discussed earlier, that you have to intentionally create that community for your children. You know you have to build relationship with strong, faithful men. If that's someone in your church, if that's your brother or an uncle or you know someone else, that could be a positive influence and leader in that child's life. One of the things I think is so negative is that a lot of children with single parents see a whole lot of people traipse through their lives, right, so it may be a single mom and there's a boyfriend and another boyfriend and another boyfriend, and that can have a really detrimental impact on the child. It would be the same for a single father who has girlfriend after girlfriend and so, rather than providing these short relationships that never fully developed and aren't meaningful, if you could intentionally create those relationships again. If that's an uncle, if that's a positive male figure in the church, if that's a baseball coach, you know, but somebody that provides some long-term relationship and stability and longevity for your child Basically my testimony.

Speaker 3 43:30

My dad passed away when I was very young and my mom went to the deacons of our church and just asked that somehow the men of the church could come into our lives and my brothers and I do some intentional things with us. My brothers and I never some intentional things with us. My brothers and I never knew that. She did that, like just all of a sudden these people started showing up and taking us fishing, taking us swimming, going to movies and things like that, and I think that really did make a huge impact on our templates and beliefs about the men of the church and men in general and just how they love and they would always share how they love God and things like that and poured that into us. So that's real powerful for me for sure.

Speaker 4 44:01

It's so cool.

Speaker 6 44:02

It's just your mother's a very wise woman, very wise.

Speaker 4 44:06

I was going to say similar to Suzanne, like so, not a single mom, but my husband is at work half the month and so I think about that all the time in our community groups that there are the husbands of the other wives and so I go, but sometimes it is uncomfortable. So I would also encourage that that I understand what it's like to go and sit in a church pew by myself or go to our groups all the time by myself. It can be some saddening because sometimes I'm not always with my spouse in those events. But what I do think is valuable is that there's other men that are also pouring into my kids' life, and not that my husband is around and he's always there when he's off. But it is important that they continue to have other relationships because, kind of like what Suzanne was saying, they might choose to go to one of them instead of one of us, but they have opportunities to have other people to do that too.

Speaker 3 44:48

I think something for men to do, as well as not just put it on the moms, is to be observant and look for the people who because I think that's pretty vulnerable for someone to just reach out and just hope that someone will do that.

Speaker 5 45:06

But if you're intentionally looking for people who need extra help and support and reaching out, being the one to initiate it, I think that would go a long way as well. Yeah, this all just shows once again the importance of community and I just love your story, Josh. And there's a man life, life happens, sometimes in a severe way and they're just I know there'd be a number of listeners that you know there might maybe a single parent, a mother raising children, and I think there's a great message of hope here and not of guilt and condemnation. There's just lots of opportunities around if we're open to it and getting connected to make sure there's healthy males in our children's lives. So I think there's, and I think it's also a challenge to the fathers who are listening how the stakes are high.

The Power of Community in Faith Formation

Speaker 5 45:46

And fathers, your role is so important because you use the word template, Josh, but I think it's pretty much verified that our earliest pictures of God really do come much from our closest human relationships, and the father piece plays especially strong in that. So if I'm blowing it and I'm hot-tempered and don't have much patience or I don't have much time for my children, that is going to really have a negative effect on their spiritual development, how they're able to picture God, or for me just to be absent, so to be loving and present, attuned and forgiving and listening. Those fathers, we have a big, big role to play in this.

Speaker 3 46:27

Thank you so much for joining us today and faithfully listening each week. I hope that this is a bright spot in your day. Come back next week. As we continue this discussion, we'll talk about the steps in the spiritual journey that lead to faith formation. So until next time, remember you might have to loan out your frontal lobe. Stay, just make sure you remember to get them back.

Speaker 1 46:43

Thank you for listening to Brain Based Parenting. We hope you enjoyed this show. If you would like more information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch, are interested in employment, would like information about placing your child, or would like to help us help children by donating to our mission, please visit calfarleyorg. You can find us on all social media platforms by searching for Calfarley's. Thank you for spending your time with us and have a blessed day.