058 - Ask Her - Reclaiming Women's Voices from Patriarchal Narratives

In this raw and deeply personal episode of the Shero Café Podcast, Debbie and Deborah talk about patriarchy, self-trust, silence, power, and what happens when women are taught to abandon themselves to keep others comfortable.

Through personal stories, emotional reflection, and honest conversation, they explore:

• how girls are taught to stay agreeable
• why so many women silence themselves
• the emotional cost of people-pleasing
• what community and self-trust can heal
• how small moments of awareness create lasting change

This conversation moves through politics, culture, family systems, trauma, parenting, and personal growth — all centered around one powerful question:

What happens when women begin listening to themselves instead of only outside voices?

This episode is an invitation to notice the patterns, pause long enough to question them, and begin building self-trust one small moment at a time.

Chapter Markers / Timestamps

00:00 – Why Women Are Taught to Stay Small
 02:20 – Growing Up Responsible for Men’s Feelings
 04:15 – Personal Stories of Silence and Harm
 06:15 – Respectability, Religion, and Patriarchy
 09:00 – Learning to Advocate for Yourself
 12:45 – The Emotional Cost of Staying Quiet
 14:00 – Indoctrination Starts Early
 15:20 – How Society Shapes Gender Roles
 18:00 – Voting Against Our Own Interests
 20:00 – Listening to Outside Voices Instead of Yourself
 22:00 – Power, Politics, and Protection Systems
 25:00 – Social Media, Predators, and Protecting Children
 30:00 – Why Self-Trust Changes Everything
 32:00 – Teaching Children Boundaries and Self-Respect
 35:00 – When Family Protects the Wrong People
 38:00 – The Healing Power of Community
 41:00 – Truth-Telling, Honesty, and Respect
 44:00 – Why Awareness Matters
 49:00 – How Self-Trust Is Actually Built
 52:00 – Awareness Is Only Step One
 54:00 – The Small Language Shifts That Matter
 58:00 – Fighting for Women’s Voices
 1:00:00 – One Small Change at a Time
 1:02:00 – Trusting Yourself Through Life’s Challenges
 1:04:00 – Final Reflections and Closing Thoughts

Thank you so much for the likes, love, and comments you leave. Not only does it mean the world to us, it helps other women who need to hear it be able to find it.

#womenempoweringwomen
#youmatter
#makeadifference

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---CONNECT with Deborah Edwards---
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---CONNECT with Debbie Pearson---
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Substack:  https://debpearsonwriter.substack.com
Email: deb@debbiepearson.com 

Transcript

Hypocrisy And Proximity To Power

Deb 0:02

Okay. Yes. Yes. When she said, because I always wondered about that. I was like, there's something weird and wrong about here's Erica Kirk on stage telling women how they should act and be and all this stuff while she's all dolled up. And she's on stage. Like I just I couldn't rectify it in my mind. But it was like, oh, that's that's it. That's that's a hypocrite. Like she's performing hypocritically. Oh so frustrating.

Deborah 0:37

That you're talking about, oh my god, how can they not see? How they cannot see because they are blinded with their proximity to power. These women think that they can they they just blind themselves over that proximity to power because I don't know why. That's the only way they feel like they can have power.

Deb 1:02

I don't understand what you're saying. Say it differently. That's the way the women feel they can have power, yeah.

Deborah 1:10

Okay, oh, okay, okay. You know how in the on the in the like old southern towns, well, my husband is the mayor. Yes, that means, or in the church, I'm the first lady, or you know, and all of that. So that's that proximity to power makes you blind to some of the other things that are gonna be against in your best interest.

Deb 1:34

Yeah, I I do see that. I I see also like if that's the only way I can get power, I'm gonna take it. Because once a lot of there's certain people, once they get that power, they're like, I don't want to give this up. So even if I'm voting against my interest, I'm his wife. I'm like, that's not gonna happen to me. Yeah. And so it's yeah, voting against your own interest. The thing is, it's like maybe, but maybe not, because if you look at what like the courts doing taking away voting rights, your voting right may be taken away, lady. And if your voting right is taken away, then your husband's gonna decide for you. Remember that power you had? That's not gonna be there anymore. So I don't understand how how they don't step back a little bit to pay more attention to what it is that they're doing. Now, there are some women, I would say, like, go ahead, you want to say something?

Deborah 2:34

Well, that's because they've been groomed and indoctrined, indoctrinated since the, you know, since the beginning of time, because this one woman says, We the in the video, we were not allowed to wear sleeveless shirts because of the way that we had to protect these boys from raping us.

Deb 2:52

Right. It was all look, I was raised in that same very typical Southern mine was Catholic, but Republican, uh whatever that energy is, uh, and maybe it's not Republican, but I don't, it seems like it is. But it's also this very Christian or Catholic upbringing, where um, you know, we're gonna have to include the the video that we watched. So I'll include that link in our uh description. Because we keep referring to her, and I don't even know her name. I I was it's just I was listening. And she talked about um how women uh are no one ever says you're responsible for men's feelings, you're responsible for you know how a man's gonna act or react. And but you know, I was taught that 100 million percent. And I mean, my mom would say things like, Well, Deb, you know, you know, like there would be this uh well, you just it's you just have to like take it, take it, you know. I mean, I remember well, we've kind of referred to this before in a different podcast, but it was like when I was molested by the man down the street, and I finally was able to tell my mom about it, her response was well, don't say anything to his wife because we don't want to cause trouble in their marriage. And I was like, but what about me? Yeah, I didn't matter. That's that's where Dev Don't Matter comes from a lot. It was like nothing that happened to me in my life mattered, other people mattered, yeah, and especially men mattered, and in fact, if if we after my dad died, I remember some people came to our house. I I uh either I was living back at my mom's house to help take care of her, or I happened to be there, and it was like it might have even been like my sister and her male companion. So they weren't uh technically married. I don't really care, you know, but to be we're talking about that southern thing. They weren't married, they were living together, which again is fine. But he was coming, my mom wanted to put him at the head of the table, and I'm like, why? And she goes, Well, Debbie's the man. I go, This isn't his house. You know, I said, put yourself at the head of the table, or at least put me at the head of the table, because we this is your house, like you own it, you can decide. But I said, You're not putting him at the head of the table. Like you're not now. That was me and my mom's relationship. It was very contentious because she would do these things that perpetuated the patriarchy with zero, zero cognition about what that was actually doing, but she was being a good girl. Oh, yeah. She was being a good girl. Yeah. And my whole life I was taught it's your job to make sure that you support the man. Well, Deb, what what is he supposed to think? I don't why do I care what he thinks? What is he supposed to do? Well, if women didn't go to a bar or dress that way, then she wouldn't have gotten raped. I'm like, I don't know how that became the the norm, but how normal is it to hear those things? Yeah.

Deborah 6:44

So and you know, and then you think about in these cultures where women are covered up from head to toe, and they still get raped.

Deb 6:54

So it's not even true, you know that's true, that's true, and then she gets blamed for it. Yeah, it's her responsibility. I've I've seen on rare, rare, rare occasions, basically like there's a screen almost in front of the face, so you cannot see the person. And they are literally covered from head to toe, even gloves on their hands in the in the I saw it in the grocery store. Okay, yeah. And at first I was like, I want to see your face. Like that, I feel it's almost unsafe because I don't know you, I don't know who you are. Uh do you have a gun under there? Like, what's happening in the space over here? But that was her culture, her religion. So I wanted to respect that. And of course, she wasn't, she wasn't doing anything but trying to shop. But it was like if something excuse me, if something happened to that woman, such as she did, she got raped. I can tell you from my little bit of experience watching her that everything about this woman was don't look at me. I'm invisible, you do you over there. I'm just trying to survive here. Like it was a very um not a uh what am I trying to say? She was definitely not trying to exert any power over, and um no threat at all. So I I just I uh first of all, I can't even imagine living that way. Okay, cannot even imagine.

Deborah 8:41

So I'm like, I'm so grateful that my husband's not like that. Yeah, well, you wouldn't have married him. Oh no, he he can be. Okay, he can be, but the the cool thing about it, because you know,

How Girls Learn To Self-Silence

Deborah 8:55

he is a man that grew up in America, but the cool thing about him is he'll say, you know how that sounded kind of like an order? You don't have to do that. I'm like, I know I don't have to do that shit. You know, have you ever thought, heard of me if something really matters to me, you know, shutting my mouth? And he's like, No. I know you'll say something.

Deb 9:18

So right, but that's the thing, Tabor. You somehow came and into yourself. I don't know how else to say it, but you can't, you you, you chose to to, I'm gonna try to say it different. You chose to validate yourself, you chose to stand up for yourself, advocate for yourself, you chose to be a thinking, feeling, compassionate, but also self-contained, uh if I'm saying the right word, woman or person who is not willing to take the the orders or allow the control of you by anyone else, including this other human being that you actually chose to spend your life with, right? Right, right. And doing that is a big deal because there's not a lot, there are definitely women that do that, but there's not a lot of women that are willing to be that proactive, or at least not ones I've met or been. I see more now, but not growing up and not for many, many, many years. And you know, I I was in the military as a civilian for you know six years. You saw strong women, but it was always still, always still that little bit of underneath. If there was a companion piece right next to her, two master sergeants standing next to each other. The woman may have outranked the guy, but there was still deference to the guy, to the man.

Deborah 10:53

Oh, yeah, and I see that in a lot of situations. One of, you know, like um one of the things that uh I don't was it Patrick? I think it was Patrick. Patrick was working for this woman, I think, on construction, and he would go with her to make bids, and they would talk to him, you know, although she was the owner of the company, and Patrick kept saying, you know, she's the owner of the company, you know, you need to be talking to him. She's like, No, that's okay, you know, let him talk to you, you know. And so she'll get them back, you know, kind of worked that. But um, and I've even seen that in my life where I've been the boss and they have talked to the only male on my staff as if they were the ones that are, you know, that was the that they needed to talk to.

Deb 11:47

So it makes me wonder like, like, I wasn't taught to be subservient. I mean, I was taught, not told. Well, I was told, let me see if I can say I was definitely told to be subservient to men, but I was definitely taught to be, even if that word wasn't used, you know, it was in in what you did, you know, what you were instructed to do. It was like, Deb, go go get everybody, you know, some water or something, because that was in the kitchen. It was like, well, why don't you tell my brother to do that? Why is it always the girls? Well, you know, Deb. Guys doesn't know. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yes. That was that was I was definitely the difficult child. I only knew that what she wanted me to do just felt wrong. Yeah. And so I couldn't just acquiesce to it. Um when we think about like the emotional what it costs women emotionally, when we silence our voice, when we oh gosh, women that apologize and apologize and apologize, um, the ones that are not willing to speak up just because they want to avoid conflict. You know, it's like that that being silent costs us so much. You know, what is something else?

Deborah 13:17

Well, I mean, the thing that I it is so complex, this thing. Yes. You know, I mean, and and right now we're talking about women. But you know, we're talking about I I mean, I have seen this same kind of it's almost like uh it's just so complex.

Deb 13:43

Say more when you mean what do you mean? I mean, I get it, but share a little bit more when you said it's just so complex. What is it that you mean when you say that?

Deborah 13:54

Well, I mean that there are so many things our indoctrination, indoctrination that began from the time we were a little girl and we had to play with Barbies, and other people had to pay, you know. I'm lucky enough that I didn't grow up with brothers. So we got to, and I was grew up with a mother and a father that really wanted us to come into our power a little bit. I mean, my dad taught me how to change my oil, change tire, do all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Right.

Deborah 14:23

But there were still clear indoctrinations, right? So there's not only the indoctrination in that, but there's the identity that society and the system puts on a woman that shows up everywhere, shows up in commercials, shows up in, you know, everywhere in our jobs, in our systems, and all of that. And you know, and and as women, we still have hopes and aspirations. We see all of those boundaries that are set up, all of those walls that are set up for us. I see when I go into the doctor's office and my husband comes with me to an appointment that the doctor's talking to him instead of to me. So it's real complex because it happens in so many different ways in our lives every day. Um that and but that it's hard to just say this is it.

Deb 15:19

Oh, yeah. I mean, look, I remember, I don't know if I read an article or I can't remember how I got the knowledge because it was a quite a while ago, but I remember consuming this information where it talked about there was an experiment done in a hospital when babies were born, and what they did was they put uh pink hats on little boys and blue hats on little girls and watched how these babies were treated differently. It was like if the person didn't know, because you know they have like volunteers that will rock the baby or whatever, and it was like if the person didn't know if it was a boy or a girl, they did the experiment, and inevitably the little boys were treated rougher and with less gentleness than little girl babies, pink-hatted babies. Let me say it that way. Blue-hatted babies were treated not rough, but rougher than pink-hatted babies, and it didn't matter if it was a boy or a girl. And then even if they went and changed the diaper, it was like the the pink-hatted babies were still treated more gently. It's like color-coded, color-coded, right? And oh, it was just I was just like that. That's a that's that's deep in that's you know, is that part of our DNA somehow? Like the color pink. I mean, there's well, colors have a lot of meaning.

Deborah 16:47

I think it is just what has been indoctrinated, it's just what it's the meaning that we've given to it from the time that we were um babies in the crib, you know, we saw that oh, I got on a pink hat, and that guy over there's got on a blue hat, you know. That um, I think that it's all nature, uh nurture versus nature. I and I can't remember, you know, which one it would be, but it would be that part, you know, the devil and the angel thing, you know, which one is gonna win, the one that you feed. Yeah. And so I feel like this is kind of another example of that same thing, where everything around us is feeding. If you're a girl, you're a girl, you're a girl, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Deb 17:39

And we wonder why a woman can't become president yet. Right.

Deborah 17:44

And and you and you know, uh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't wonder, I know right it is the deep patriarchy, and you know, and I often wonder, you know, it especially in this political situation that we're in, why do people still consistently vote against their um self-interest, right? And it's and and it's because I thought, well, and part of it is, part of it is, but it's not just this. Like, how is a black person going to be MAGA? You know, and it's clearly,

Family Loyalty Over Women’s Safety

Deborah 18:20

you know, and I think it is because I I thought, well, they just hate themselves. That's it. They don't want it. Oh, I see. Yeah, because there are blacks for Trump. Yeah, blacks for Trump, Latinos for Trump, women for Trump, and MAGA clearly wants to do away with all of their rights. Old people for Trump, MAGA clearly wants to do, and I shouldn't say this, but how are they still able to put blinders on to that? And it's part of the group think, you know, a lot of people think the closer you are to uh um to uh to power, the more safe you are, and you know, and I'm I'm seeing all of these things on uh social media where these people were like, you know, these Latino people are getting deported, and they're like, but I voted for you. That's not supposed to happen to me. Yeah, other people.

Deb 19:19

Yeah, it's exhausting that people can't. I I say it, you can't think outside of your backyard. It's like having you called it blinders, and it's so true. It's like there's nothing but me. I'm just here, and it's like there are other people in your city, your state, your country, like there are other people and in the world. Of course, we're talking about politics, so just of course refers to the country. But I don't understand how human beings cannot see beyond just those that they can like touch.

Deborah 19:54

Because that's the only thing that they can see, they don't take the time. I mean, you know how I'm always saying create space, create time to just be still and listen to yourself, because they are still the only voice that they hear is outside of themselves because they don't take the time to listen. And so then what voice is gonna be heard? The one that's closest to you? What voice did we hear as little kids, mom and dad, and the other little kids in the neighborhood? Are we you know what I'm saying? We didn't hear the news, we didn't hear, you know, what what what voice are we hearing if the only news that we watch is CNN? We're gonna hear CNN, you know, and it's it's it's um if you advocate your really your entire being to outside sources, you know, that thing that they say if you believe anything, you know, if you don't have believe in anything, you'll fall for everything.

Deb 21:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Deborah 21:02

That's a good one. You know, that that's kind of the thing.

Deb 21:06

Well, it was like I was like, well, bottom line, like going underneath this, how did this get not that I want to go to the origin, like I don't know, like we're not gonna ever figure that out. But the way that it's perpetuated, like I remember when when when Trump said he was running, but he said, I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose a vote or something similar to that. And I remember thinking, because my thinking is he's one person. I don't realize he's one person in this, what somebody described an eight armed octopus. Are you familiar with that phrase?

Deborah 21:50

I'm not familiar with that phrase. I mean, I can imagine what that means. Um, you know, and then and well, Andrew, yeah.

Deb 22:00

Well, you know, they talk they talk about how the bil billionaire class is a very small group of people. There's not that many, right? They all know each other because there's like, I mean, there was a time when there was like 23 of them, and now there's like maybe a few hundred, but it's like a billionaire. Oh my God. Just as a side note, somebody described the difference between one million and one billion. And they did it like this. They said, one million dollars is like 11 days. One billion dollars in comparison is like 39 years. Wow. I mean, when you look at it from, you know, you can almost carry all of the millions on, you know, your all your fingers in one toe. And then billions is like 39 years. I mean, it is staggering to me. Okay. Yeah. That's how much money a person has, right? I mean, for me, I'm a minute, maybe. You know, comparatively half a minute. I don't know. Anyway, but seriously, it's like, but this something began to get put together in a way that these billionaires, these high-power people, I'm not talking about just the United States right now, but it was like there's an arm of this octopus that's like the drug industry. There's another arm that's like political, another arm that's that's the sex trafficking industry. There's another arm that's something else, something else. And they all do what they do in their own arms. And then if something happens, then they all protect each other. Because if they don't, they may lose their power or their arm of the octopus. And if that happens, then they've lost you know their power in the world, and they can't stand the thought of that. So they're like at all costs. The one that I think about the most what's his name on the Supreme Court, black man, Clarence Thomas. Oh my god, yeah. He votes against his own people all the time. And I'm saying black people, black and brown people, including voting for this uh the voting rights act that just got slashed. And just what you're talking about, his proximity to power is way more important to him than any other human being, period. Right, much less any other same color human being. Like I'm just blown away because it's like, what's next? Biracial marriage? I mean, he's in a biracial marriage. It's like, dude, do you not see what you're doing? Like, how do you not? But you know what? They've got him hook line and sinker, bought and sold, whatever the phrases are. So, what do we do about it, or what is what do we where are what is our recourse? How can we begin to help mothers, grandmothers? Oh, I'm just gonna throw this other thing before I even finish it. Um I was I I watched another YouTube video. I'll be happy to put that in the description as well. And it was uh high-ranking individuals in meta, Facebook Meta, who were like when they started seeing what was happening and they left, they're like, can't do it anymore. And then they participated. I don't know if they did the participating, but were part of the experiment or whatever of this predatory behavior of meta uh uh of Facebook people on Facebook that you know it's like your kids go upstairs to go to bed and you think they're safe because they're in your home. But if they're on their phone, there are predators coming into their bedroom on the phone asking for naked pictures, asking if they're wanting to have, you know, intercourse or whatever, like however they they do the that connection. And the FBI or whatever group ended up doing a sting operation and pretended to be, I don't know if it was a 12 or 14-year-old girl, and went back and forth with this guy for some length of time until the you know, I'm not ready yet. And then he would ask her, like, well, do you have hair down there? I mean, just very direct questioning. And you know, would you ever be care comfortable if I, you know, put mine and then there's an emoji of the eggplant inside of you? And then this agent acting as this, I'll just say preteen, was like, oh no, I don't know. But as there the predator's grooming and keeps going and going and pushing until they kind of start, and then eventually um the agent, which was the pretend preteen, agreed to meet the man at the hotel. And then that's when you know the whatever police department, whatever, swooped in to get him. And then he was only in jail for a few years, you know, like and what he's gonna come out in a few years and go do it again. Yeah. And when these um high-ranking officials that were

Everyday Deference To Men

Deb 28:05

in Meta and left became whistleblowers because one of them had a 14-year-old daughter, or maybe it was just a teenager, and realized this stuff was going on and wrote to Mark Zuckerberg. And basically the end responses are like, eh, well, you know, we uh we put warning signs out and we do this and that, and it was just kind of laissez-faire, and didn't really care. And so now I'm like, oh so Facebook is a sex trafficking operation or contributing to it, and the rest of us that are on Facebook are are playing on it. But if somebody like how many people, how many men have tried to talk to you going, hello, beautiful, or your your gorgeous smile just stunned my heart? And yeah, I used to respond. I mean, when it first started happening, because I wasn't used to anything like that, and all it's like it seems like almost all of a sudden it started happening. And I just remember like going, you know, you're disgusting, get away, but then I'm I'm responding, but I'm so angry, like I know that person flying, right? And I'm like, you know, how dare you, you know. But how many women and girls fall for it? How many are not realizing or in their room and they get no attention from people that should be giving them attention? And now there's you know, they're feeling comfortable, but this person's giving them attention and pain, you know, oh it's it's quite painful. So I started this with what can we help moms, grandmothers, you know, talk about and and recognize so that maybe we can help thwart some of this, you know.

Deborah 30:06

Debbie, this is what we do. This is what you and I do. Um, you, you know, we're talking about how we are in our lives and how we have, but we have intentionally, intentionally developed the skills. We have taken the time to understand these things, and what we do is we teach women that to trust themselves and to not abandon themselves. So it is very clear to me, and this is why we do what we do, at least this is why I do what I do, and I know you, it's why you do what you do. When a woman with deep self-trust is much less likely to abandon herself for acceptance, and that applies politically, rationally, professionally, spiritually, socially, ever since I was a little kid. And if a man was being just, you know, weird or whatever, or something was happening. I was the weird person that says, Y'all are smoking. Well, I don't smoke, you know. I'm not gonna smoke. I'm not that's not something I want to do. But then there is another woman who would have said, Oh, everybody else is smoking. I guess I'll smoke too. You know, so that's what we teach women to take the time to develop those skills, to develop that self-trust and that um care for their your own voice and your own um sovereignty that allows you to um operate outside of those paradigms. Absolutely.

Deb 31:52

It's in in teaching yourself will help you teach your kids. Um you know, girls are taught to be agreeable, don't upset people. But there are uh times when we need that they that the that the little girl uh does not need to be agreeable, and it's okay to upset people. I I remember I forget it was with my son, and it was a teacher he had or something, and it was like the teacher was being disrespectful to him. And I remember feeling, or maybe it was the doctor, I don't remember, but I said, you do not need to be respectful to anybody who's being disrespectful to you. Now you can't start out that way, you must start out being respectful, but if they don't show respect, you're not gonna get any negative from me for not being for uh for I forget how I said it, but it was like he would not get in trouble if he was disrespectful, if that other person was disrespectful first. That was how I felt because I had I I can't tell you how many people, I can tell you th three men off the top of my head right now that were being disrespectful sexually with me, but because they were men, or because it was my grandfather, or it was because it was the man down the street, my mom and dad knew him, or my uncle, and he was part of the family, it was like I had to be respectful to him no matter what. That is the most painful lesson, and and that's not a good lesson, that's a bad lesson. But I learned very early on that men are authority figures, and you better be respectful to them because I would get a spanking, I would get a beating.

Deborah 33:55

Yeah, yeah, and you know, this is bringing to my and this is very personal too, you know, because uh I you know it it it it just tells you the difference in um how your community or whatever is. When I told my parents about the man that was that molested me, I was more worried that they'd kill him. Well, I was super worried that they would kill him. I made them promise me that they wouldn't kill them because I said, you know what? If you're in jail, where am I? I need you, and all of that, right? And then I at a young age, probably in my early 20s, said, you know what, I'm not going there because it was a relative. I'm not going with you on these trips anymore if he's gonna be there, because I don't want to see them, and they honored that, but they still went on trips, he was gonna be there.

Deb 35:01

Yeah, they did. Uh oh, I know the feeling. I know the feeling because that happened for me as well. It was like, well, if you don't want to come, that's fine, but we're going. It what was it? I told them about particular uncle. I went to go to his house to pick something up. Um, it was my aunt uncle. And when I got there, the aunt was in the back of the house and he was in the front of the house, and he opened the door and he was like, and went to give me a kiss. Hello. Now I've been with around that man since I was me and his daughter grew up together. So I'm looking for a big old hug, right? No, tongue in the mouth. And I had to turn my face. Got the tongue hit my cheek. Thank God that was it. And about that point, because she had heard the doorbell, she comes in and I like push him away and I run over to her really fast. It was so disgusting. When I got home, I told, I was like, here's what I went to go get. And I said, he tried to stick his tongue in my mouth. And my dad's like, What do you mean? Tried to. I said, Well, I turned my head and you know, it it got my cheek, like it didn't go in. And he goes, Well, then he didn't do it. And two days later, they went out to eat dinner with him. And I was just living Oh my God. It was like, you know, I told my my parents about my grandfather, and my grandfather had passed away by the time I was able to remember it, allow it to come to the surface. And my dad's response in front of the therapist, because he was sitting in the therapist's office with me, was basically, he's not here to defend himself, so you can't blame him for anything. Oh my god. And the therapist is like, but Mr. You know, uh Debbie's dad, like, do you do you not understand that your daughter's trying to say something bad happened to her? And he like got mad at her and he was like, What am I supposed to do? Quit work and follow her around everywhere. I don't have time for that. And uh she allowed the session to get to the point where she said, Well, thank you for coming in. And he left. And I swear she looked at me, she goes, Oh, Debbie, I'm so sorry. And at that point, I was like, it must be really bad. If that's her response. But can you imagine? I mean, that was that was the I'll just say the disrespect, because that's what it feels like. It was just such disrespect for the individual who is this person sitting right here, right now. And I I that's why I told

Voting Against Self-Interest And Blinders

Deb 37:40

my son, like, somebody doesn't respect you, you do not need to respect them. Like it came from that energy. But yeah, he appreciated because he's a good kid, he's a even keel and all that kind of stuff. And it's not in his nature to just be a jerk. But he's he told me later on, he goes, just having you having my back, giving me that permission, just made everything so much easier.

Deborah 38:04

And I was like, Yeah, and you know, and I knew all the time that my parents had my back, and I know that even though they went down there without me, they confronted him. Oh, okay. So, you know, they're not gonna give up, and I would not, I would not ask them to give up their fam, the rest of their family, of course, but um, so even then I knew they had my back, and that that that creates I'm just equating that difference in how our experiences were to community. Yes, if you have a Shiro tribe or whatever, I don't want to say tribe, I know that's not politically correct, but that's what I want a community, yes, community that has your back, you're you're gonna be able to um to demand a certain level of respect. You're gonna be able to um trust yourself and trust that anything that you do is going to be support not anything that you do, but you're gonna be fine. Yeah, you're gonna be in a community that's going to support you in whatever that is, like me and my mom, right? My mom, if if if it was anybody outside of us, if I was wrong, she would be like, when we were talking to the other person, we get she goes, girl, you know you was wrong.

Deb 39:45

You know, she would be fussing at the other person, and then she took your side.

Deborah 39:51

Wow. And then when we got home, then she would say, You know what? This is what you should have done. This is what you should have, you know.

Deb 40:01

It so she protected you and then later on helped you understand a better way.

Deborah 40:07

Yes.

Deb 40:07

Oh, wow.

Deborah 40:09

And so that is what I feel like a community um does, you know. Um now I'm probably the other way, you know. I no, I think I'm pretty much that way. If somebody says, you know, okay, Deb said such and such and such and blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm not gonna go, yeah, girl, but I'm not, I'm not gonna go, yeah, Deb is this and this and this. I may be quiet, yeah, because you know, or you know, it'll be a little bit different, but I'm not gonna be against you. You can know that I'm not gonna be against you.

Deb 40:46

Oh, yeah, I definitely trust that.

Deborah 40:49

And so that's the importance of women trusting themselves so that they are less likely to abandon themselves.

Deb 41:02

Exactly. And it's it's like whatever we teach our younger ones, we're we're actually talking to ourselves as well, right? Boys or girls, if it's for the greater good, right? So if we teach our girls that their worth comes from being easy to handle, we're giving them the wrong message, right? Their worth comes from being agreeable when it's appropriate, but also not being agreeable when that's appropriate. If upsetting somebody means you telling the truth and they're lying, then I say we have to do that. We have to okay, so for me, we've got to get to a place where people tell the truth because I can understand that there are different ways and energies to tell the truth. You can blast somebody, and I'm not talking about that, you know, like I'm talking about uh being compassionate and kind, but also telling the truth. Like, do you like my dress? Like, girl, that looks like you know, like we don't have to be mean about it, but do you like my dress? Like, well, no, I don't really like the way it fits you. You know, that's being truthful and honest. And I don't know when it became I don't want to use the word kosher because it's Jewish, but it's the one that comes to my mouth when it became politically polite, if you would that's the wrong phrase too, and in a bad way. But it's like, when did it become the norm, the the supposed to to lie to make somebody else feel good so that they felt good? Like we've damaged ourselves. We've created an a space like our media today doesn't tell the truth. They slant it according to either what they're told or what they want. Um, and so now nobody's telling the truth. And now we're like, okay, so I listen to a piece of news. If it resonates with what I want to hear, yay, I'm excited. If it doesn't, uh, you know, like I'm all upset about that. But it I've gotten to the point where I don't care if I'm upset. Tell me the truth. Yeah. And please, for the love of God, what's the rule? Like when I hear, like, um, what was it? Uh, Mitch McConnell wouldn't allow Obama to seat a judge, a Supreme Court judge, because we were a year plus away. And that was just too soon. And blah, blah, blah. And then Trump had what, weeks left? And they jumped through. A justice. And it was like, wait a minute. How is that even remotely acceptable? And over and over and over, stupid thing. Obama wore a tan suit. Oh my God. Oh my God. He wore a tan suit. And that was headlined for what three weeks. But Trump, you know, civil liability for for sexually assaulting a woman has 32 for felony counts. I mean raids the coffers of a children's cancer charity that he owned. Oh well, Trump's just being Trump. Like I just do not, I do not. I can feel my blood pressure rising. I do not comprehend the level of disingenuousness, the cognitive dissonance of these people. I do not understand it. I'd rather be upset and know what the truth is than be bamboozled and pretend like life's great. I I really would. All this normalizing and then what's gonna happen? What's gonna happen? I think that uh we can't trust uh those in power because they're not trustworthy. A few here and there, yes. But what are we as individuals? What can we do? I think the only thing that we really, really, really have the power to do is to train our young to act better. And we have to do that by ourselves being better, right? So you have a community, and in that community is a lot of people that are elevating themselves. And like that's so important in our world. Um having a group of people, a community where you can bring your true

Power Networks And The Billionaire Octopus

Deb 46:10

self to test the waters, to ask their opinion because you know they're gonna give you the truth, at least their truth for where they are, right?

Deborah 46:23

Oh yeah, you know, I love that because that's how we can well, I mean, that and again, that's how we can all practice together to be who we want to be, yes, and and that's how we can bring our children into that community to show them a better way, huh?

Deb 46:43

I said because kids are watching us, even if they're even if they're dismissing us and you know, saying, you don't matter, the child is absolutely absorbing what's happening. Keep going, sorry about that.

Deborah 46:59

Oh, I stopped listening.

Deb 47:00

I stopped listening to myself because I was listening to you. Oh gosh. We were talking about the importance of being in community and you know how how we can help ourselves and each other by being part of that community so we learn and grow from what everybody else is bringing into the community, and how we can uh air grievances, uh, even if it's with another person in the community, or but even if it's how do I handle setting a boundary with this idiot over here? Like I don't really know how to do it. I'm too close, or I feel emotional, or it's you know, triggering me every time, then you've got your community that can you can you know be in with to help uh I guess figure it out, you know, for where you are, right?

Deborah 47:49

Yeah, absolutely. And and and you know, and it's it's like I'm trying to think, you know, that thing like everyone be one, everyone bring one. It's just like you really get that within yourself, that self-trust, that self-love, that self-and then reach out to someone else and bring them into the fold and help them develop that in themselves. That's almost like uh, and you know, and for Be Present, which I'm a member of that organization, which is one of the communities that I belong to, you know, we are our our um our logo, one of our logos is a ripple, a stone in a ripple. So as you begin to develop that self-trust, that self-love, that ability to stand for yourself and for your own self-interest, then that ripples out to your children, to your friends. Your friend goes, How are you able to do that? Well, let me tell you, you know. So um, yeah, I feel like that is important that um we do develop those skills within ourselves first, and then bring one.

Deb 49:16

Yeah, it's like you don't teach self-trust. A person doesn't learn self-trust by somebody telling them about self-trust. We learn self-trust by staying connected to ourselves, even when it's challenging. But if we can in a moment, because we only learn in the moments, it's just the craziest thing. We can learn content, but we don't actually change it unless we're in that moment and we can stay present with ourselves one second longer. That one second is like a giant opening in the quantum field, if you will, but it's like this gigantic opening of another possibility because you did something different. If you do one thing different, you can do other things different, right? Oh great, yeah. But it's true, it's that we get so repetitive in what we do that it literally becomes like this automatic behavior, a pattern, uh habit. And we don't realize that a pattern or a habit or a behavior that is learned, I don't want to say it can be unlearned because I believe it'll always be there, but it can be shifted, it can be changed, something can take its place, yeah, something can become stronger than it was. I think for for those of us, and there are tons of us that have, and there are tons of us that have not, learn to stop the critical thing, uh, the critical um commentary in our head. I used to have that critical commentary, negative self-talk. Non-stop, just see, you're stupid, look how dumb you are. Oh, I can't believe you did that again. Just the non-stop barrage of ugliness. And and I learned some techniques, and within six months, I it was like it stopped. It just stopped. Was there did it ever come up again? Sure. But when it came up, I was able to go, uh-uh-uh-uh, I don't want that. I want this other thing. And it was that other thing that has perpetually gotten stronger and stronger and stronger. And every now and again, it still will come up because I stubbed my toe or misplaced my keys. And it's like, what the hell's wrong with you? Oh, oh, oh, nope, nope, no. We have to catch ourselves because nobody can do this work for us.

Deborah 51:50

But it's true. That is absolutely true, and then as you and I both always say, it begins with an awareness. Yep. Everything begins with awareness. When you became aware of your negative self-talk, then you were able to recognize it. You are able to put your space, some space between it, you're able to put the brakes on it, you know, and choose because you had some space, choose something different.

Deb 52:24

Well, the interesting thing that I hear all the time is just what you said. Awareness is step one, but then you also showed us step two and step three because there's more than one step. And I hear that all the time. Well, awareness is step one. It's like, well, okay, but what's step two, three, and four? Because I need that part. Right, right. I know I'm talking to myself that way now, right? So yeah. So it was good to hear the extra. Um, so I think the goal for all women, if possible, if we're in a situation where we hear somebody, I guess male or female, the younger men for sure, you know, even even men in general, just just to keep bringing it up and I don't want to say putting it in their faces, but yeah, kind of sort of putting it in their faces. With like what was I read the article and it said, I'm not a guy, quit calling me a guy. And I'm thinking, what? And when I read the article, it was like when when we say words like, hey guys, that is completely disregarding every female that's there. Guys, hey guys, I've said it a million times, but it's like that becoming consciously aware of self-awareness that I'm saying it as hard as it's going to be to not say it because it's one of the most natural things to come out of my mouth. Hey guys, how's it going? I have to change that. It could be hey y'all, hey folks, hello to all, you know, any inclusive term because hey guys is exclusive of 50% of the population. What else are we not being cognizant of? And so it's a matter of there's so much going on in the world,

Online Grooming And Meta’s Incentives

Deb 54:25

we still must pay attention. Right, right, and teach our kids, male and female, if you're able to, to bring that up to the husbands, the partners, and say, we're not gonna use that phrase anymore. I I've I've had to remove several phrases from my vocabulary that I was raised around thinking it was the most normal phrase, because we said it all the time. Right. Like um, I did not know that this was a slant against Jewish people, but I said, Oh, that happened to you, you got gypped. Yeah, I did not know that that was gypped, it was short for gypsy, and Jewish people were gypsy, and there it was a degradation toward them when they may not have done any. I was like, wait, what? I just thought that was a word that meant something not great happened, you know, and just wow. Yeah, I could go on. There's so many that have come up for me that I just I had no idea.

Deborah 55:34

And you know, today in the in you know, in this conversation, we've caught ourselves um in several instances, you know. I contribe, oh, I shouldn't say community, you know, whatever. So that's how it works, right?

Deb 55:48

Yeah, it is, and it is a little bit painful at first because, like, why do I have to go through all these machinations, you know, and and alter these patterns that I have. But what I realize is it is a pattern and it's something I learned, and I can learn another way. I can learn to say it differently, I can learn to choose a different word. And I don't know, just I guess I'm not as opposed to it because I understand I'm not, I don't want to hurt anybody, like a whole community of people because I'm using a particular word, because oh, I, this one person must say it and nobody's gonna tell me what to do. Like that's the part that gets me.

Deborah 56:33

Yeah, when people think they're above that, but some people do, but even the smallest rock, when thrown into the water, creates a ripple, negative or positive, huh? Negative or positive. So even if you know, we stop saying this word that it, you know, it just seems like such a small teeny tiny teeny tiny thing, but it's creating a ripple inside of you. It's creating a ripple inside of you that says, I've taken this little action that's gonna be more aligned with who I truly am and how I really want to be in the world. So yeah, I know it can seem like a small thing, and it's hard sometimes that small thing.

Deb 57:18

But you know, Deborah, not saying guys when I'm talking to women or co-ed, whatever you know, makes me realize that that action is me doing one more little piece that I can do to bring awareness to the fact that there's more than just guys here. Yeah. And so, like what we're talking about today is women abdicating their power. Um, you know, how do we stand up for what we believe is right after so many years of being taught that we're wrong on so many levels, or do it this way because we don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. I'm I'm seeing that it's it's helping me. It's just one little thing I can do. So it's easy that makes it easier. That definitely makes it easier.

Deborah 58:12

And the thing that that's coming to you know to my mind is just because it's complex doesn't mean that it's not worth addressing.

Deb 58:24

Exactly. You know, as women, we have to fight for our voices, and that's just the way it is right now, you know, and if we have little pockets, maybe in a certain group of people in our personal relationship where we don't have to fight for that anymore, what a relief that is, huh?

Deborah 58:44

Yeah, I mean, just the space to breathe, yeah. To be, yes, you know, that if you when you have the space to breathe and to be, then you can become more of who you are. Absolutely.

Deb 58:58

So, how do we want to thank our listeners for being here?

Deborah 59:04

I want to say, I don't know. I there's just so much in my mind that I want to say. I just want to, you know, what would be the one, I mean, Debbie, what would be the one thing that you would, you know, someone's listening, what would be the one thing that you would say? This one little baby step, let's just start with that. What would that be?

Deb 59:28

Well, I I'm not sure. I want to let our listeners know that uh we read an article, one of us sent it to the other, we were both got fired up, we got on the like, let's have a podcast now. And we were like, like, just we didn't even, I don't even think we had the opening. We just started talking and we're like, okay, it's time to wind it down. Um, so the question is, what would be the one little thing that I could tell people or share what was the rest of it? To what? I don't know. I to well, maybe we don't need to say anything. We we talked a lot about a bunch of different things throughout.

Deborah 1:00:09

You know what I would like is for all of us. I mean, you know, like our little tagline at the end, yeah, we invite you to love and care for the she rope and you, yes, you know, just take that moment, take that space to look at all of these um paradigms that are surrounding you, and how you're um being how how you're being what lessened or disrespected or not recognized or yeah, bring it to your awareness. Just have that the time to reflect on that and maybe look at some examples in your life. And right now, just think about it and think about just is there something, one little thing that you can change?

Deb 1:01:06

Maybe that's what it is for all of us to notice when that something, something happens. And pause for that moment to think, even if you're pausing later and thinking about it, it could be different next time. How could it be different next time? And then maybe when that next time comes, because you know it's going to.

Deborah 1:01:35

Yep.

Deb 1:01:36

It will. I mean, that's just the way that life is, right? Um, so when that next time comes, how what might it look like where it would feel better for you? What is I like to tell my clients, what's your end goal GPS, right? What's your north star? And some people say self to value myself, validate myself, have self-respect, whatever it is. And sometimes people have three or four or five, right? Yeah. Well, it's like if you're driving a car and you're going from like the west coast to the east coast, you can't

Small Shifts That Build Self-Trust

Deb 1:02:10

drive in a straight line. You're gonna have to take breaks, you're gonna have to get off the highway. Sometimes they're gonna reroute you off the highway because there's whatever. We're going to go off, but when we have that endpoint GPS, that north star, that direction, and we get off of the highway. We can say, now, wait, where is it that I wanted to go? Oh, yeah, over here, I wanted to go to the West Coast, whatever. And then we get back on that highway and we head that way. In other words, we we we gather our thoughts back together and we bring ourselves back to connecting with ourselves and heading in the direction that we really want to go.

Deborah 1:02:52

Yeah, and one thing that comes, yeah, absolutely, and one thing that comes to mind to me is you know, I love the wind, you know, and some of these changes, some of these uh awarenesses may be difficult, but then I think about how a tree, a plant grow stronger because of the wind, the resistance. Adversity. Yes, yeah. So I that's one of the reasons why I love to travel so much because things come up, things do, and that, you know, it kind of makes me more aware of my ability. It kind of makes me trust myself a little bit more when I know I am in Spain and we miss our train, and it's the last train to get back to our thing. You know, I've got to figure it out, and the fact that I have figured it out over and over and over again allows me to trust myself more.

Deb 1:03:50

Absolutely, and that is no small feat. Yeah, that is no small feat. But once you trust yourself, it just it's easier and easier and easier, yeah. Right? It's the process of getting there, but it's absolutely doable and it's absolutely fabulous. I love that I trust myself now, and it like I said, it just gets better and better.

Deborah 1:04:12

So we're gonna just leave it here for right now. We're going to really invite yourself to you know, invite you to to just kind of look at that for you, and as always, we invite you to love and care for the hero in you.

Deb 1:04:33

Bye, everybody.