64. Actionable Goals For Kids Ministry Leaders - Part 2 with Chuck Peters

Big ministry vision is exciting until you try to turn it into Tuesday’s to-do list. We sit down with Chuck Peters to get practical about goal setting for kids ministry leaders, especially when you’re planning for the next season and trying to bring volunteers along with you.

We talk about why “actionable, incremental goals” beat giant vague targets every time, and how to build a pathway your team can actually follow. We also dig into Bible engagement goals that move from aspiration to practice, including modeling Scripture use, helping kids own a Bible, and building repeatable habits week by week.

If you’re doing summer planning, fall promotion prep, or volunteer training, this gives you a clear framework to simplify and move forward with confidence. Subscribe, share with a ministry friend, and leave a review so more leaders can find the show.

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Transcript

Kids Ministry Calling Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Are you dedicated to working with kids and families in the local church? Well, clearly that's more than a career. That's a calling. I'm Dana Magruder and this is Kids Ministry Calling. Hey friends, welcome back to my conversation with Chuck Peters. For those of you new around here, Chuck is LifeWay's Next Gen director and podcast host of Etch Next Gen Ministry Podcast. This is part two of a conversation I had with Chuck around what matters most when setting goals in your ministry. If you haven't checked out part one of our conversation, I highly encourage you to go check it out before listening to this episode. Now let's jump into the second half of my conversation with Chuck Peters.

Actionable Incremental Goal Setting

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yeah, so that that sets up the number three. So the number three tip for uh for goal setting is to set actionable. So I like the words practical, applicable, actionable. They're ubles. They're ubles. You need to be to accomplish these goals. Practical, actionable, or practical, applicable, and actionable. But the key word here is to set actionable, incremental goals.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Okay. So I kind of got ahead of you then because I was I was excited about it. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Which is great. That's great. We'll just back it up just a tiny bit. So you know, it can be really hard. Okay, so I've got a couple examples I like to use for this one. Okay, so one is so like I've been working on trying to lose some weight, trying to be healthier, right? If listeners, if you've ever done this, it's hard to lose 50 pounds. It's hard. It's much easier to lose one pound 50 times.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

I can lose one pound. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

That's good. I'll let you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

But I can do it again and do it again and do it again. You get it, but if it's 50, it seems insurmountable. It's huge. And then you just give up. Yeah, it's like, yeah. Right. Even if I lose 15, it's like, uh, failed because I didn't get 50. Yeah. So the idea of setting these incremental goals is really healthy so that we don't lose heart and give up, right? In due time, you will reap if you don't lose heart.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Just lose weight. That's right. Yeah, lose weight. Don't lose heart. Uh so there you go. That's the losing weight thing. It's easier to lose one pound 50 times. And I know you're like, I've I've lost the same pound 50 times. Lose it, gain it, lose it, gain it. I can do that easily. But to uh to keep them off. But that but the idea of setting those small goals that are steps

Landmarks That Keep Teams Moving

SPEAKER_01 2:17

on the way. So the other example I like to use that everybody can relate to is the road trip. Right? You have you, I know your your parents are in Texas, you got you go down and take the kids, you've done that many times, but you've done it as a road trip. Yes. And so what happens when we take those long road trips, especially when we have kids in the car, when you're the one driving, this is true of you as you're driving the metaphorical bus of your ministry. You got a whole bunch of people who are in the back seats. You're at the wheel.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

You decide how fast you go, you decide when you're gonna turn, when you're gonna stop, when you're gonna not stop. Yeah. And so, you know, those people that are along for the ride. But when you're on that road trip with the family or a group of others, we typically would identify like landmarks along the way. And you get to know them, right, as you take that same road. And so it might be like Bucky's. Yeah, right. Bucky, Bucky's perfect landmark. Like, okay, which exit has the Whataburger or has the Sonny's barbecue or has the whatever? So, yeah, and you plan along those things. So when I was a kid living in a kid, when I was in college living in New Jersey and driving to Bible college in South Carolina, there was South of the Border in South Carolina. Does anybody remember Donnie? You remember South of the Border? Do you even know South of the Border? Okay, so if you know, you know. This is one of those IYKYKs. So there is this really tacky place. It's like on the border of North and South Carolina. I think I'm not sure it's even there anymore. And it's kind of like Bucky's, where like hundreds of miles away. This was before Bucky's. Okay. Hundreds of miles away, there would be these big billboards that's like 193 miles to the south of the border. It was all the I And this is in what state? I feel it was like in the Carolinas part of the border. And so it, yeah, it kind of had everything was fluorescent. They had like giant like dinosaur fiberglass dinosaurs and restrooms and restaurants and all the things. When you got there, it was really not very exciting. It was always kind of underwhelming and disappointing. But but it was a thing, yeah. Right. And they did that same strategy that Bucky's does now of best bathrooms and wherever, you know, and all that kind of stuff to be there. But that was a landmark. And you knew once we hit that spot, yeah, it was only this much longer to get there. So, like for us with the kids, the more those little landmarks that you find, the better. So it's like, okay, we're we're going to the beach after VBS, right? And we're going to take the family and go, we're going to buzz down and get some sun and sand. And it's like, okay, as we go, you know, uh just uh an hour or so from now, we're gonna pass that big horse farm where all those horses are out in the field with a big white fence. We're gonna see that horse farm and that's on the way. We're gonna go through that tunnel, the big tunnel where we honk the horn. Yeah, we hold our breath while we drive all the way through, right? And then we honk the horn in the tunnel. After that, we're gonna come out and then we're gonna get to this little spot that we always stop for ice cream. We're gonna hit that spot. We're gonna stop and get the ice cream that we always like at that little place. Uh, then as we get closer to the beach, there's that huge mini golf spot that we always want to go to, but we've not stopped. But it's but it means we're getting close. Yeah. Then we go over that big drawbridge, and then we hit the beach house. Right. And so each of those things we can watch for as we go. We we're gonna see the horses, we're gonna look for the tunnel, we're gonna hit the ice cream, we're gonna see the mini golf, we're gonna cross the bridge, and then we're gonna be there. It's good for us as leaders to identify those sorts of landmarks for steps along the way to accomplishing that bigger goal.

Bible Engagement Steps That Stick

SPEAKER_01 5:44

So if that big goal is we want every kid to own and carry and read their own Bible, okay, well, that could be a huge goal. How do we accomplish that? What can I do for that? But when you break that down, it might be okay, we are gonna have a value of giving kids Bibles. And so if you have a kid in your group who doesn't have a Bible, we're gonna sponsor every kid gets a Bible, right? And so now I can in my group ask kids if they have a Bible. We can, we can um uh incentive, we can use them in our group. So I like to encourage leaders. One of the ways that we might um encourage that behavior of kids bringing their Bibles is I want all my leaders to bring their Bibles. Good point. Not just not use one, like use your phone. No, read it off the page, the printed page, no book, or just pick up a classroom Bible, yeah, which that's better than not having one. But when I bring, and I've found this to be so true, when I'm leading a large group on Sunday morning at my church and I hold up my Bible, and I have a kid who comes up afterwards and asks me a question. I can I can open my own Bible and they see the cover has some, it's worn out, and they can see things I've highlighted in underlined in the bookmarks, all the things I've written in the margins. They can tell that that book is important to me.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Caught not taught.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Caught not taught. Yeah, it's modeling. And so I want all of my leaders to bring their own Bibles. Um, and then that's another step. So one step is we're gonna give Bibles. Another we're gonna bring our own Bibles. We're gonna open those in small group time and in large group time. We're gonna maybe um incentivize kids to bring their Bibles to church. When you bring your Bible, you're gonna get a point or you're gonna get a treat or something, some kind of acknowledgement. Um, and then maybe one inspire kids to give Bibles to friends or something, right? Bring somebody else to get a Bible. Um, I'm a huge fan of uh like what I think of as like the highlight of the week, where uh teaching kids to bring a highlighter and whatever our key references, ask them to open up and highlight that verse in their Bible. And at the end of a year, they could have 52 different verses highlighted. All teaching them Bible skills and Bible putting the value on the Bible, right? And so each of those are little things that are attainable that I can participate in that lead to that ultimate goal that that child has a Bible of their own that they're comfortable with.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

So that's great.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Steps along the landmarks. I love that. That's gonna stick with me.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah. So I think of that, uh, and then so I I love to map that out. So if you think about like the, you know, I mentioned the horses and the tunnel and the ice cream. If you just draw that out on a piece of poster, all these things as a as a road or a pathway, and you drop on it, give away Bibles, hold up a Bible, use it in small group, highlight a verse, tell a friend, carry it with you. Each of those things becomes a place where we can drop a pin that says you are here. It's like the map at the mall, right? Yeah, where am I? I don't know. Yeah, people need to know where you are with these

Make Progress Visible With Scoreboards

SPEAKER_01 8:49

goals. And so, like I'm a sports guy. And so my two boys played soccer, all kinds of different sports, right? And when they were little, there was no scoreboard.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

That's annoying. Drove me crazy. So annoying. Right?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Because the whole point of playing, I'm sorry if you disagree, it's okay, there's room, there's room, unpopular opinion. If you don't have a scoreboard, what's the point of the game? Just have fun. No, no, it's just about the score, right? That's how we know how we're doing. Um yes, that's true. Soccer dad. Well, but you know, but even if you imagine watching March Madness or watching tennis or watching football on TV, baseball, whatever your thing is, and there's no score, the first thing you want to know is who's winning, what's going on, where are we in the game, how much time is left? And so I love the idea of creating a scoreboard. So if it's, you know, we're building a relational connection and we have a goal that we want to give out 5,000 high fives uh to kids or kids in our church giving them out. We can track that. We can put up a scoreboard, we can use screens in our hallways, we can talk about you know, memorizing X number of verses or bringing Bibles or giving Bibles, whatever that thing that we can quantify a score for, let's report the score and put it up somewhere. Display it. Your business and marketing skills are showing right now. But then everybody in church can get bought in. They're like, oh, we did you know? Listen, guys, most of the time we can have goals in our kids' ministries that never make it to the sanctuary. Yeah, they don't even know we're giving away Bibles and have a goal of that. But if they do, those adults can see a scoreboard. Our goal is to give away 500 Bibles to 500 kids. Okay. We've given away 70, 73. Uh now adults in church can be like, I want to get on board. Can I sponsor Bibles? I'll buy 10, right? What can I do to help? Uh and so now they can all be bought in on what's happening. So the scoreboard isn't the goal, the scoreboard is raising awareness of what is happening.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Very good. All right, let's

Mission-Driven Kingdom Goals Over Metrics

SPEAKER_00 10:50

keep moving. Okay. Number four we're on number four for fear of the year. Four out of seven.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah, four out of seven. We're all we're breaking the halfway part, halfway mark here. Okay, so number four is to the the goals that you set. I would want them to be compelling kingdom goals that are driven by mission, not metric. So it's not just about more and bigger, it's about effective for the kingdom. Right. So we talked about the importance of Bibles. That's a great goal because it accomplished helps accomplish that. Other spiritual disciplines, things like that. Uh, and so we we need to know that a goal is not just attainable and understandable and visible, but that it's valuable. And so the idea that of keeping the gospel and spiritual growth at the center of our goals, uh, it's not just, hey, we want to, we want to buy 500 new chairs or whatever that would be. That's fine. And we maybe we need to do that. Right. We want to install a playground. Is the playground the goal or is the playground a means to an end? Right. We want to reach our community that that doesn't come to church by installing this playground. We can invite families to come and we can engage them with the gospel. Okay, that's a whole different goal. And so we need to make sure that we're setting our sights on things that really matter, that are kingdom-oriented, that are missional as well as measurable and memorable.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

And that I even think about, I don't know, a super uh relatable scenario would be like you have to maybe you do need a playground and you have to go before the budget committee.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Right to put it in your budget or to find the funds. Yes. And um, I think people are much more likely to um throw in on a goal, whether it's you know, budget related or um trying to communicate that to other business leaders at the church or ministry leaders. Thank you. That's who I was looking for. The finance committee. Um leading with this kind of vision for the playground, it's not just about we need a playground. We're it it's attached to that bigger, more compelling.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

It helps connect the dots to something that is that people can get behind.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

That's right. Right? That's right.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Because if I just hear the gospel playground.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

That's right. If I just hear Jana wants to spend $15,000 on a playground, don't we have one already? Yeah. Yes, it's like uh, you know, a horse on a spring and an old metal slide that kids fall off of every week and get burn their legs. It needs to be updated safe. But it can be easy to get caught up in the dollars of that. But when it's like, okay, hold on, hold on. What's the purpose of that? It's not just because you want to have something that that looks better or makes you feel good or boosts your ego. It's like, okay, everything that we have that belongs to the church is for the purpose of ministry, for the purpose of connection and kingdom communication, gospel uh centricity uh in activity. And so that's where we need to, as leaders, go the extra step to connect every goal to something that's a kingdom goal, not just uh a business goal.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Right. And tell that story that makes it super compelling. Okay, we're on number five.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Number five.

Pick Fewer Goals And Timebox Them

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Okay. This is one of the ones that's like this is the pulling the reins back, okay? Don't overdo it.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Okay, so some of us have no goals and we just wing everything. That's dangerous. Please don't do that. Set goals. Right. Others of us have a list of nine million goals. Yeah. And it's so much on a spreadsheet. Nobody else can understand it, nobody can sort it out. You can't attain it. It's just too much. Yeah. So my encouragement is uh select a few goals to focus on. Okay. So this comes back to the focus, right? You can't hit 19 targets, you can only hit one at a time. Right. So it's if you have more than five big goals in a year, people cannot keep up with you. Yeah. So it's really important. I would I would say three. Yeah, three is plenty. Make sure they're valuable, worthwhile goals that are compelling, that people want to get bought in on. Yeah. That they're not menial goals or purposeless goals that don't matter, but don't set 12 goals because it's too much. So the test would be if a if a volunteer can't remember what the goals are, you're doing too much. Yeah. Right. So the hope would be that every volunteer and every parent, every pastor in your church will be able to say the three big goals of our church this year are relational connection, Bible engagement, and whatever this other thing is. Right? Bring in a friend. So those are our three big goals. Uh, and so you know, we want to go deep, we want to go wide, and we want to go far, whatever your little goals are to make them memorable and catchy so that uh every person on your team should be able to understand, comprehend, and communicate, articulate what those are. Yeah. Keep it simple. It can be really easy for me to want to have more and more and more and more goals. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

I haven't been working with you for that long. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

And then for some people, I am not this person, but for some of you, I know the greatest day in your life is when you can cross something off and say it's done.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Are you one of those people? I love to change it. I know you like your list and you like to cross it off. So if you have too many goals, you really don't get to enjoy the crossing off of the things, right? So to have a few and then to be like, okay, there's progress. We've we're on the map, we're three quarters of the way there, and we're driving towards this goal by this day. Man, another another tip that's not on my list, but that I'll throw in as a bonus is set a time frame for your give away 500 Bibles over the next 500 years forever. Right. It's like we want to give away 500 Bibles by September 1st.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Right. And so, or 500 by February. There's a little alliteration there, right? So now you have a timeline. So that timeline builds uh a sense of urgency, it creates excitement and energy, and then you can pace towards something. If it's just like we're going to the beach and we get in the car, everybody wants to know, are we there yet? But also how long is it gonna take? Right. How much longer? Right. And if we're like, well, we're going to the beach, but we're gonna drive from Tennessee to uh to Indiana first, and then we're gonna go to Illinois, and then we're gonna go to the beach. Yeah, that's way too far out of the way, right? And now you've lost me because I'm like, I just want to get there. So setting dates and timelines for your goals is another tip. So that's a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Drime box it.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Cool. All right. Are we coming in on we're coming in on

Focus On People Not Programs

SPEAKER_00 17:28

the last two?

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Okay, so number number six, focus on people, not programs. That's good. And so again, this is another subtlety. A lot of these things are subtle, yeah, right. It's like I'm focused on the playground, but really it's not about the playground, it's about the impact of the playground on people. Right. So the playground is valid, but it's not an end, it's it's a mechanism. So I would encourage you to set your goals that there should be a face for every goal.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Okay. Okay. So say more about that.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

We might have, so you want to know who, and so we've, I mean, going back to marketing and things like that. We often in marketing talk about a persona. Who is the persona who uses the gospel project or who uses Lifeway VBS, who comes to CentryKid camp? We can get an idea of what their preferences are, what their likes are, and we can we can say, okay, the person who comes to Centry Kid is Pastor Steve. And we know Pastor Steve is of a certain age and he likes certain things. And so we can we can approach our goals for that with him, which is maybe very different than uh Miss Rhonda, who's our VBS person, and we know what she's like. So, in this, it's always good with a goal to identify, even if it's a generic made-up person, who's the person we're trying to reach? Yeah, we're trying to reach moms. So, like my short list is you might have some goals on how to develop your volunteers. Okay, so you can, it's great to set volunteer development goals. You can picture a volunteer in your ministry to be like, okay, in our at our church, maybe it's Miss Miss Giselle. If we're gonna set a goal for volunteer development, I'm gonna think Mr. Eric and Miss Giselle, the two that come to mind. And I know where they are in their own uh spiritual journey. I know where they are in their confidence as teachers and leaders, I know where they are in terms of their buy-in, and but I want to meet them where they are and bring them to the next level. And when I think of that goal as how do I develop Miss Giselle and Mr. Eric, I can do it more effectively for everybody. So, volunteers. That's good. Parent partnerships is another one. Think about a family in your church and set a goal for all parents while you think about a couple parents. Um, and again, we also need to be careful to not assume any longer. I've had lots of conversations about this, yeah, really good conversation with our friend Shelly Melia about this, where I told her I've stopped talking to kids in my large group setting about your parents.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Parents, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Because not every kid has parents.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

And uh as much as 40% of kids in the US have a single parent home. There are many beyond that who have a non-traditional home where they have foster, a foster family, an adoptive family, grandparents raising them, uh, or any kinds of other slices of what family looks like. So I have started talking about your grown-ups. Your grown-ups are coming to pick you up in just a few minutes. So when your grown-ups get here, make sure you tell them this and share this with them, right? So it's just a different mindset. Yeah, but so as we picture who is it? What is the family in our church, right? Is it that single mom? What are we doing there to serve that uh that segment better? Uh, and so that's uh it's great to focus on those people. So volunteers, parents, um, leadership pipelines and things to develop other leaders to grow, spiritual growth and formation in kids. So you can picture those kids, right? And you might say, set goals for each grade potentially when they're in first grade, second grade, third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade. I want them to be here, here, here, and here on this pathway. So, but setting your goals focused on the people, not just the program.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

So we've moved beyond the ministry area goals to these are nested under other areas.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Yeah, that's right. It's a great way to think of it.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Yeah. Um, because I'm I'm thinking about other things that our leaders listening may um think about when they're uh having these this summer dreaming time. They may have a goal to make sure that they go to a worship service every Sunday. You know, that's which is a very good thing. Yes. So things like that, or to make sure a volunteer uh goal could be to this year or by Christmas, we have a volunteer that serves every week in every class. So that you're like if I know a lot of churches are trying to get out of the business of once a month or you know? And so if you made that a goal, getting out of that. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

If people are serving, out of need and obligation if they're shooting out of obligation on a rotation that is counter to the goal of relationship and discipleship and relationship. We need, as kids are less frequent in their attendance patterns, we need our volunteers to be more frequent in theirs. Because kids need to see the same faces in the same places. So when when uh when Jason is gone for two weeks and he comes back the third week, he needs a leader to say, Jason, where have you been? I missed you. Right? If there's a different person in there every time there is no opportunity for that relationship to happen. Right. Yep. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

We'll have an episode on that at some point. All right. So we better wrap it up then.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah. Okay. So the last one, and I want to acknowledge something. So you know so let's acknowledge this first and then we'll hit the last one.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Okay.

When Goals Are Assigned From Above

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Some one of the assumptions that we are sort of making in this conversation is that you as a leader are setting your own goals. There is a reality that many of us have a leader above us who is setting goals for us.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

This is true.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Right?

SPEAKER_00 23:02

So you just brought up the elephant.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Whether you so what if you have the autonomy to set your own goals follow these principles. If you don't a hundred percent you have a leader who says we need to grow our five o'clock service on Sunday afternoon. We need to add this many volunteers we need to whatever it would be maybe somebody else is bringing those goals to you my encouragement would be for you to apply these filters to those goals again because we none of us want to be informed right we want to be consulted or involved. You may not have that luxury. So for some of you you might feel like well this is all great Jana Chuck this is great but I don't get to do that. Somebody else tells me what my goals are okay well there's a reality that that's true of all of us too right we have certain goals we can set ourselves and other ones that are given to us. But in all of those when I can take whatever the goal is that's been assigned to me it may not be given to me in a way that is healthy but whatever the goal is now I can say okay let me look at this goal through the right lens.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Let me look at this goal through a long lens.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Let me look at this goal to see what are practical applicable actionable incremental steps to get there. What is it about this goal that I can frame as a compelling kingdom goal that's missional, not just a metric. How do I focus on this so that I'm not going to overdo it with too many things. How do we keep it so you can apply all these as filters and make it people not programs.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

That might be my favorite one.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yes where you can say okay I'm being asked to do something to grow the five o'clock. Right. You're like that's not the right measure. It's really it's about it's not about okay I mean here's one of those ones goal provide childcare. Oh goodness gracious you had to bring that up I mean it's such a reality live this right the reality totally pastor said I have to provide child care on Sunday nights for an adult study where we just need the kids to have a safe place. Children's ministry is not childcare. It's child discipleship let's acknowledge that that person who gave you that task may not understand that. Yeah. But you do.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

So you can say how do I take this task I've been given and how do I frame it to be about those kids and what we can do not about what we're provide childcare.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Reframe that to be something that's even for your own heart that helps.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Yes and because when you're bitter I mean we also know that whatever you have is contagious. That's right. So if you are out of sorts and frustrated and disappointed and discouraged you're gonna somehow communicate that to everybody else and now all of a sudden you've got divisions and you've got frustrations and it's just not healthy. Yeah. So figure out how to reframe all of these things in a way that makes sense. So the last number seven is to be be prayerful and careful as we set your goals.

Be Prayerful Flexible And Close

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Okay. So it's again it's easy for any of us to drive from work to home and outline 15 goals in the car while we go and give very little thought. I don't know if that comes as natural to everybody is that just me is it just me so we we we can always come up with new and more and different we can come up with things that are strategic things that we think are the best at the end of the day it's so important that we not not uh miss the importance of taking all of those goals and putting them before the Lord and saying God I can't do everything. In fact I can't do anything in my own strength. So I need you to help me steward these goals help me choose goals that are aligned with what you want Lord for this church at this time for these families for these volunteers and then help me to be aligned with you as we seek to accomplish those things. So be prayerful and then also be careful because man if you choose goals that are out of line with the churches overall that are disconnected from what really matters you can wind you're find yourself leading no one because nobody's behind you. Yeah. Right. So it's so important that we take those to the Lord. Another part of that is we need to stay flexible right because we might lock in a goal at one uh point in time and things change over time. And so sometimes things happen more quickly than we expect. Sometimes they happen more slowly we have to pivot. That's right pivot we've all been there especially in ministry hold them loosely and realize that open hands right that you you want to steward the things as though you own them but realize that you don't and hold them with open hands so that you're um flexible not rigid and so that you respond to the leading of the Holy Spirit as you as you go.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Excellent place to stop. Thank you so much for sharing all of those um listeners and watchers I know that you probably took really good notes. If not re-listen and maybe share this with a friend another ministry leader who could use this kind of as a framework to do some summer dreaming with uh take it print it out take it to the pool take it to the beach if you get to go to the beach and and allow yourself some time to dream a little bit and I think that's super energizing. That is what gives me the strength to keep going for another season because we all know that gearing up for the fall which for many of us the fall means August 1st which is not the fall comes fast. But we say fall promotion and fall training and all of those things that's coming fast. And so take some time just some intentional time to reflect reset dream a little bit do some writing do some journaling responding to some of these things these are excellent uh places to start and to filter other things through so thank you so much Chuck. My pleasure thanks for finally coming on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

I'm so glad to I love this audience of people and leaders and this my heart is here. So I'm so happy to be able to come and share just a tiny bit and interact with you and with all your wonderful listeners.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yes well we'll definitely have you back. So stay tuned. We don't have time for you to even share your calling story which tells me that we're going to have you back really soon because we want to know what is your calling story. So be thinking about that because we're at time right now but uh that'll give us something to look forward to in your next episode. Sounds great. Let's see all right well everybody thank you so much for for joining us today. Thank you for listening and maybe even watching now and be sure to come back next time for another episode of Kids Ministry Calling this episode of Kids Ministry Calling Podcast was brought to you by our amazing team including executive producer Angie Elkins and producer Nikki Opkin edited by Trey Garza and recorded in the LifeWay Podcast studio in Brentwood Tennessee with Sound Engineer Donnie Gordon and artwork by Cameron Wilson. And I'm your host Janna McGreater thanks for listening to Kids Ministry Calling