Guest: Beauty Executive, Denine Pappalardo

LifeGLOSS Podcast: Multifaceted Chat with Beauty Executive Denine Pappalardo

In this heartfelt and inspiring episode of LifeGLOSS, hosts celebrate the insights and stories of Denine Pappalardo, a beauty industry veteran with executive roles at Revlon, Estee Lauder, Chanel, and more. Denine shares her journey from theater to beauty, her favorite beauty products, and her personal struggles with body image and grief. Her conversation touches on the industry's demanding standards and the subtle undercurrents of maintaining appearances. The episode also delves into Denine's personal loss as she navigates life after the passing of her husband, offering listeners a raw and honest perspective on grief, resilience, and navigating her next chapter.

00:00 Introduction to LifeGLOSS Podcast
00:42 Welcoming Denine Pappalardo
00:59 Denine's Career Journey
02:52 Theater to Beauty Industry Transition
04:36 Consumer Connection and Sales
09:10 The Ugly Side of Beauty
10:00 Body Image and Industry Pressures
24:43 Personal Loss and Grief
37:53 Reflecting on Personal Growth During Challenging Times
39:20 Navigating Grief and Patience
41:02 The Complexities of Dating After Loss
41:35 Humor in the Face of Adversity
42:23 Challenges of Modern Dating
46:19 Beauty Tips and Favorite Products
52:48 Nostalgia and Vintage Beauty
56:55 Family and Longevity
58:30 Concluding Thoughts and Farewells

Stay GLOSSY!

Life-Gloss.com
IG: @LifeGlossPodcast
TT: @LifeGlossPodcast

Press and Partnerships:
Hillary@Life-Gloss.com

Music by, Mag

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to LifeGLOSS, a beauty podcast for sassy and seasoned women who have lived life and have a drawer full of lip gloss to prove it.

Susan Gerdeman: 0:09

So technically to be a guest on LifeGLOSS podcast, you don't actually have to be blonde. However, it just so happens that we decided today's blonde day on life. It's really rare that I get to come on here and say that it is a privilege and an honor to have someone with so much experience, but also Someone who was a co worker at one time and someone that I can call a friend. So I want to welcome Denine Pappalardo to Life GLOSS today. Denine. Hi,

Audio Only - All Participants: 0:47

thank you. Oh,

Susan Gerdeman: 0:48

thank

Denine Pappalardo: 0:48

you so much.

Susan Gerdeman: 0:49

I'm so excited to be here. It's amazing. Oh my god, I'm going to embarrass you and I'm going to talk about you a little bit like your mother. Okay. So hopefully all your family is listening because you've been busy. My little friend, you have held positions spanning from makeup artist to SVP of sales and education and everything in between. You've been held executive roles at Revlon, Borghese, Estee Lauder. Chanel, Carol's daughter, and LVMH, the big dog. She has amazing stories to share. And this, this, These positions, these jobs have afforded her a very colorful life and career, and she has clocked over 1. 3 million travel miles. I think you have me beat, Denine. She is living proof that where you start rarely dictates the road you travel. You never know where it may lead. So I'm glad the road has led you here. We are so I'm so happy that you are here with us today on Life Gloss and welcome as our final guest of 2024. WelcomDenineeen

Audio Only - All Participants: 2:02

Pappalardo. Thank

Denine Pappalardo: 2:03

you. Thank you so much. It's so great to meet Hillary, which is so exciting. And just to see you again, Susan, we worked together at the big double C's for quite some time and it was amazing to keep in touch and to be able to be a part of this incredible year of this podcast. To finalize and be that last guest. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Susan Gerdeman: 2:24

I know Hillary's really excited to hear all the stories that you have and some of them I know, some of them I don't know, and I think our listeners will really benefit, no pun intended from, more on that in a minute from so many of your stories, but not just your stories, Denine. Thank you so much. Also you have your finger on the pulse of really what's happening in the industry as a cosmetic industry today. So we want to dive a little bit into that as well. First question that I have for you is, you made the transition, which most people don't know unless they really know you from the theater to a life of beauty. Similar to Bobby Brown, she started in theater theater makeup as did I, and the theater in general, and then you went into the beauty world, and so many of individuals that we worked with do have a background in the performing arts, and a lot of us just naturally navigate to these beauty companies, these beauty positions, but which role, and I'm not talking theater necessarily, but which role plays In the cosmetic industry, would you say has been your favorite so far?

Denine Pappalardo: 3:34

Yeah. So it's interesting with the theater background, what I think you learn to navigate through just naturally by doing it. I started when I was 11 years old. So I was in that world for over 10 years, just growing up. And so it was about the people. Like that literally, and it's about reading people. It's about in order to do a character, you have to actually understand the person that you're playing, right? So I spent a ton of time in my life, like in my childhood and my young adulthood, just really paying attention to what makes people tick. And I was always fascinated by that. So then once I, fell into this industry, which literally was positions, working at the mall, doing makeup artistry, like you all did. And doing fragrance modeling and just picking up hours in between all of my theater, my music gigs. And that's literally how I got into it. And it was that excitement. It was the theater of being in a store that drew me to it. And it became so natural, but most importantly, like when I put a person in that chair, by the time they got up, they just felt better. Like no matter how they felt when they sat down, they felt better. And I knew that like that connection was making a difference and it was, really dealing with the consumer, with that client. I fell into sales and I've done, like you mentioned, like all of these different sales and education jobs. But my favorite position is always anything that leads me to where I can actually still touch that consumer, talk to them, see what like makes them passionate about using products and, keeps them excited. I've always leaned towards the sell through piece of it because I find that to be the most energetic. Although I do both. So I, the jobs where you do both, VP of sales, as VP of sales is great and it's great to see how that synergy is between the two. But ultimately it's that sell through with the people piece that really just drives me home for sure. It's so rare.

Susan Gerdeman: 5:44

Yeah, it's so rare to hear that because Hillary and I both know, and we've had experience with this, where someone comes in to the cosmetic industry and they started out on the selling floor like we all did. And they started out as a makeup artist and then they work up in the ranks and then you never see them again. They go to what we used to call the ivory tower. The ivory tower. Exactly. The ivory tower. And they're so far away from the consumer. And the pulse of what's going on in the world. So I think it's wonderful that's something that you still, to this day, over 30 years later, you still want to interact with the consumer. That's so rare, Denine, but that's so

Audio Only - All Participants: 6:26

Actually get out of touch.

Denine Pappalardo: 6:28

Yeah, you can't, the consumer is what is going to tell you the best product is

Hillary Clark-Mina: 6:32

every single time. The consumer is the one. Yeah. And they bid with their wallets and the brand wins or not based on that. And it's so interesting when you were talking about. Theater in the background and the selling floor is a stage because when Sephora came to the U S I helped open Sephora for support. com, but they literally their sales floor was called the stage. Those people were called the cast. And even in the beginning, they had one glove for presentation and it's all theater, as someone that considered psychology and then stayed in beauty, cause I was like, I can do more good. With men and women in my chair sitting at a counter that I could with them laying on a couch. So I'm hearing everything you're saying and it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

Denine Pappalardo: 7:19

I love that. And I, it's funny, I remember just one specific person, like I had a cancer patient that was starting to lose her eyebrows. She was, Just looking, her skin tone was just so grayed out, she didn't know what to do. And I just remember like sitting her in that chair and just showing her, not just doing it, but showing her like, this is how you can do it yourself. It's actually a lot easier than you think. It only takes, I'll give you the just few steps. I know you don't have a lot of energy to put into this. So we'll do the least amount of effort for the most return. And we just both cried and hugged each other. Like when we were done, like it was the most, uplifting, amazing experience. And I, to this day, 35 years later, remember that. And it was very early on and that, that memory just drive, it just drives me to do that. And even when I'm sitting in a boardroom, even when I'm, talking to a CEO, CFO, it doesn't matter at the end of the day, I always bring it back to the people because they have to remember if it wasn't for our sales teams, touching those consumers at point of sale. We wouldn't have a job. None of us would have a job. And that's really what my role was. So anytime I did that side of it, which always wasn't as fun as actually being in the stores, but I remind I would remind myself, okay, this is, I'm their advocate. This is what I'm going in for. And, we'll help get them what they need to be successful.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 8:44

It's so refreshing. And that, that's really the beautiful side of beauty, is the touching of people. Like I've had the, those experiences with people surviving and they're crying and their husband's crying. And it's just. It's we, it seems a little lipstick, how could a little lipstick change a life, but a little lipstick can really change someone's life. And that's what Susan and I love. And that's why we love doing this podcast and she and I have grown up together seeing this happen. So there is a beautiful side to beauty, but that brings me to my question about the ugly side of beauty. There is that as well.

Audio Only - All Participants: 9:19

What a

Hillary Clark-Mina: 9:19

segue, right? So sometimes our beauty industry, it can be downright ugly, and we know that. And it's not always the kindest place to work. Of course. Was there a time that you struggled personally or professionally with your image or with aging in beauty? In this industry, how did you navigate it? And, we can discuss body, body image, aging. It's, I remember when I first started, I was the youngest beauty director. So I had to color my hair really dark and wear my glasses to look older. And now I'm like, Oh, if I'm not, dressed in a certain way, people are like, nah, she's the old lady in the room. What's your take on that?

Denine Pappalardo: 9:59

Yeah. It's interesting. I've had since birth, I think, a very difficult road of body image concepts with myself. And what I found really tough too, is that I always ended up in industries and surrounded from age 11 in, places where how you look was important. I, Had these struggles as a child, but then I put myself in these places that made it even harder. So I had dance teachers and theater teachers and, people telling me you have to look a certain way. You have to be a certain way for this role for this, this production. So that really started it and it started me just really being critical of everything about myself, and it's my face my body, all of it it was really difficult. And by the time I got through high school, I went through some pretty difficult. Eating disorders, and I would just pretty much do whatever it took to look as good as I could for that performance to be whatever that image was in my brain. And, back then we didn't have social media, thank God but we did have Vogue magazine. So there's that and that was back in the day when, Cindy Crawford and all of the the a plus models were, literally being faced with us every day. And those. huge billboards in magazines. And, we all wanted to be that when we were kids. And then you add that you're in the theater world and music world, and it's just a lot of pressure on a kid. And then once I transitioned into this world, the good news is in between these two stages, I actually fell into bodybuilding. Which I know sounds a little crazy but I had an injury when I was dancing and I couldn't dance as as difficulty, proceeded over time. And so I started going to physical therapy and they were like, wow, you're really strong. And I'm like, yeah, I'm a dancer. My, my legs are, I could press when I first tried to press, I could press 600 pounds with my legs, if you can imagine. And that's just from being a dancer. And so I started going to the gym and, following up and all these guys who I happen to be at a gym where they were doing a bodybuilding competitions and these guys just kept looking at me and watching me train and I'm paying no attention to anything. I'm like, laser focus, just, get my workout in and finally they're like, okay, look, all you got to do is a little change here, a little change there. And you can actually do this and do shows. So I'm like, Hey, I've done all sorts of other shows. Let's give this a shot. And I would get free training in exchange for for doing their routines and helping to choreograph their routines. So we just had a little barter system going and it was that taught me like how to be very extra healthy with how I look at my body. And see that the way my body is built, it's because I have a different structure and I'm a much stronger body type versus a thin, tiny ballerina type. And I learned to embrace that and it was great. That being said, then I was just about approaching into cosmetics at the time. I was doing shows while I was working actually at Revlon. And That's when, again, the pressure really started, right? And you had to wear your hair like you were mentioning, Hil Hillary. You had to wear your hair a certain way. My hair was pulled back for so many years. I have no hairline at this point. It just my hairline starts back here. It just Like literally I had a headache every day. I was like, what is that? Like what is happening? It had to be slicked back and it had to be like that for a number of companies. And by the time, we got to the double C's, everybody wanted to look like Coco, right? That's, we all wanted to be that. I've had really great bosses and I've had some really tough ones. And, some of them have said, Hey, You want to make sure that your team looks a certain way. You want to make sure that you're, you're thin and you're fit, because, that's the image that we want to portray here at this company. Like I was taken aside multiple times and there are members of your team or there's this and like literally blown away. Like I remember being completely blown away by it, but at the same time going, yeah, that's this industry that we're in and thank, thankfully over time. Things have changed. Now, yes, I think those biases are still there, but they're quiet, so those opinions are quiet. You can't say these things to people anymore. You could never pull somebody aside and say they need to change the way they look this way or that way. But but it's still there. It's an undercurrent, and it just never goes away. And there's a part of me that because I've been dealing with this my whole life I wonder, is it me, right? Am I just like putting that into it? Because that's my experience. But I don't think so. Because I still see it out there. And, now I'm 58 years old, 58 years young. And it's interesting to see how I perceive myself now. I, work out like crazy because I think that's my sanity in all of it. But. It's still a struggle and it will always be like, I think that once you have that it really never goes away. It's just something that you learn to live with and learn to manage. And my healthy side that I learned is I think what's gotten me through it, especially at this age, because at this age, a lot of people struggle and I've been lucky because I knew what to do because it's so important for

Hillary Clark-Mina: 15:32

people to be able to hear. And I think you're sharing your experiences is. Is really going to touch a lot of people because people don't talk this openly about these things. So thank you.

Denine Pappalardo: 15:43

They don't and they should, because you know what it's like, and this is, we all have struggles that we deal with. And I was just, I literally just had dinner the other night with two of my friends. We used to work at Barbizon modeling schools back in Back in the day in the 80s, late 80s, early 90s. And, we had that too. In the conversations we would get and we were talking about that, and how we all look amazing, like for who we are for our age at this point, but we still can't get those 19, 20 year old mall models brains, like we can't get that out of our heads. And we still look at ourselves that way. And, We make sure we touch base regularly to say, Hey, stop it. Don't do that. You're beautiful. Brutal.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 16:26

Barbizon was particularly known for being brutal.

Susan Gerdeman: 16:31

Yeah. I think anyone in the industry, I know for myself, I've not met anyone in our industry that has not been somehow affected by our industry as a whole. And I think that for women, especially, I know for me, I am completely damaged from, having worked in the beauty industry from doing runway shows and like you, Denine, growing up in the theater and dancing. You and I have pretty much almost identical, We have the same trauma. It's great. We legitimately We legitimately trauma bonded at one time. I'm sure, Denine. And I know for myself, it's a constant daily struggle. I don't think for a second that it will ever escape me. It's just how you deal with it. I think that it's still, you said something earlier that really touched me and it was You know, you can't say things anymore. And the stuff that we used to say, or I was told that I had to say to employees was gut wrenching to me and devastating to me. And that undercurrent. Is 100 percent still there and anyone that says it isn't is not telling the truth. There is still an undercurrent in our industry of you have to look a certain way. You have to act a certain way. You have to be a certain way. We are selling an image. We are selling a fantasy. It's what it's all about, but it's still there. I'd like to think the optimistic side of me would like to think it's getting better. And I think maybe to a point it is. You can't actually say these things to people, but that undercurrent, it's like a little simmering pot. It's the foundation is on simmer. It's not boiling, but it's on simmer and it's still there. I will

Denine Pappalardo: 18:28

say the thing, the good thing that I've seen is a change. And I've been a part of brands that are like this is they, There are brands whose foundation is on being who you are and being the best for you. And I've seen that happen over time. Brands I've recently worked with have been like that as well, and they really worked hard to give that message. And I have to say, everyone came in every shape, size, ethnicity. It was amazing. That is the part of, that brand that I loved so very much is that they really did practice what they preached when it came to that. And I'm seeing smaller brands come up in the ranks that are being birthed on that platform. And again, like that to me is progress, right? Like I'm seeing that. And I loved being a part of that. And for anything in future that is something that I look for because I've done those conversations as well and it's hard. For knowing how I felt and knowing what my background, like I literally, you might as well take, just pull my heart right out and throw it on the floor. Like I, it, it wasn't easy. No, and I wouldn't do it. There was times when I just said no, I'm not doing it. You want to have that conversation?

Susan Gerdeman: 19:43

There were a few that, I didn't touch or I would preface with they want me to tell you this. This is not me saying this. This has nothing to do with my beliefs, but this is what they're thinking. And I would just hang people out to dry, like I didn't care. It was like, I'm not taking the bullet for this because I don't believe you should have to change your hair. Or you should have to change your size or, any of this type of stuff. But it's tough, are, I think some of it is the industry and I think some of it Is the age we are, Denine. It's any woman over 50 knows that even though we didn't grow up with social media, we grew up with seeing the pictures in the magazines. And I at times say to my teenage daughter, who's 18 now, and thank God she has nothing to do with our industry whatsoever, There

Denine Pappalardo: 20:32

you go. God, okay. She's I remember your baby shower, that's all I'm saying, but go ahead. That's crazy. How is she

Susan Gerdeman: 20:43

18?

Audio Only - All Participants: 20:44

Solange

Susan Gerdeman: 20:46

is going to college next year. I know. But thank God she has nothing to do with our industry. And I say that, please guys, don't, any listeners Don't strike us down, but yes. We don't hate what we do. We obviously love and have a passion for what we do. But I am grateful my daughter never did. theater or modeling or and she could have but she never did any of that world. And I kept her away from the beauty world on purpose because I needed her to develop as a human on her own without those influences. And it's funny because I do have friends who say to me, for your background, it's amazing your daughter is the way that she is. And I'm grateful for that. But I also think, she never really was on social media. She's really not on it much now at all. So it's interesting. People say don't you think this generation has it harder because of social media? And I say, you know what? Sometimes yes, but sometimes I think, We might have had it harder because the models were such a big thing and the magazines were so big and the billboards and I don't know, it's is one better is one worse. I don't know, but it's all bad.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 21:57

Yeah, that's really interesting Susan because we had so fewer touch points for what was acceptable and perfect, whereas now with social media. Everybody's in all different shapes and sizes, and they're talking about what their perfection is. And even though their life may be a disaster, you're seeing a tiny little corner of it that's all prepped and primed, and you don't know what the rest of their, room even looks like, much less their life. But for us, it was, we were served such small servings of what was acceptable. So if you didn't have the color, if you didn't have the skin, if you didn't have the height. You just were automatically excluded and you were less than, whereas maybe now there's more. So that's interesting, Susan, that you say that because I think they were both, they're both hard, but

Denine Pappalardo: 22:43

yeah. It's all tough. And I think it will always, your youth is always a part of that, right? Trying to decide who you are. What you should look like, what you should be like, all of those things surrounded by your friends and wherever you are, that's going to help, form that or dictate that. I don't know. I don't think it'll ever go away. But what I love, like I was saying, is I do love that there are. Some like brands out there. There are places that are focusing on trying to at least get that message out. And I agree, like I think social media at least is showing a broader range of what's happening out there.

Susan Gerdeman: 23:19

Because I think so. I think I think Hillary makes a very good point that it was. Great. So tiny. So we lobbed onto it almost so hard because we were desperate for, things to look up to or aspirational beauty and things like that. But now to Hillary's point, we, they were so inundated that I think so many girls and women shut it off and they're like, I don't even know where to look anymore. So I'm just going to not even look. So it almost has that backlash where it's just become so broad. Maybe people aren't caring as much. I don't know, but I do to your point, Dean, I am hopeful that we've made so many great changes in the industry that are moving towards more of a positive image and feeling good. Like Hillary and I always say in this podcast, if you want to get out of bed today and put on some lip gloss, good for you. If you want to stay on your couch and wear nothing or never wear makeup again, still listen to us because we talk about other stuff than just The visual,

Denine Pappalardo: 24:21

right? Exactly. Exactly. It's a, and it's a work in progress. We're a work in progress, right? All of us every single day. It's not over until it's over. I always say that.

Susan Gerdeman: 24:30

And Denine, you've had a huge journey, for the past few years now. And I think you were kind enough to, you just shared so much with us on a personal level which is so wonderful. And now we want to go. Even deeper with you and really talk about this journey that you've recently had as as a businesswoman, as a spouse, as a daughter, as a sister, as a friend, you've suffered one of the greatest losses. And I say this Not just because of the passing of Bill and you lost a spouse, but I don't think a lot of people know this is someone you knew your entire life. Basically you, we used to joke at work that you were a child bride. You were a child. Can you share with us what's been going on in your life journey a little bit?

Denine Pappalardo: 25:22

Absolutely. Yeah. To your point is, and I got married when Three months before my 18th birthday. I know. My husband was my legal guardian for three months and he used to, believe me, he lorded that over me for as long as he could get away with it. And

Susan Gerdeman: 25:39

let me just say, he was.

Denine Pappalardo: 25:42

Yeah, you knew him, yeah.

Susan Gerdeman: 25:43

God rest his soul, Dineen. Amazing man. And you really, honestly, in this lifetime, you lucked out. He was an outstanding human and he was a great man. And you guys, The love there was just, it was incredible. Yeah.

Denine Pappalardo: 25:59

I was very lucky and it's funny because now looking back, you never know why things happen to you in your life when they happen to you. And I'm one of the things I do through various journey journeys, and I've done this since the beginning of my life as I journal. And I do that because I love to romanticize things. I'm a romantic. I'm in theater. I love, I love to make things beautiful and I put twists on things all the time. And that's a good thing, but sometimes it's not a good thing. I write them down because I want to go back And if I'm struggling with something periodically over time, I like to just go back to the journey so that I can put it in perspective. And I find that to be probably one of my best tools throughout my life that's helped me through the eating disorders and now through this journey. So Bill and I got married super young. And now that I look back, I basically say, I didn't know at the time, but I needed to get married that young in order for us to have 36 years together.

Audio Only - All Participants: 26:56

And

Denine Pappalardo: 26:56

which is crazy. But, and we always thought, literally Bill would say this all the time. We'd go to a wedding. He'd be like, Oh, the dance where they're like, you get up there. If it's been, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, he goes, we're going to make 50 years plus easy. And that, he always used to say that. And little did we know, we didn't have that much time. What happened, which was, probably, again, timing in life. So on February, in February, the week of Valentine's day, 2020, he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And if you remember February of 2020, about two weeks later, we went on lockdown. Yep. And it literally, if you can imagine dealing with cancer and it is not curable and you are absolutely going to die from it and lockdown at the same time, it was insane. Like there, there aren't even, there aren't even words to put to it. And what was so crazy is that, we didn't have any help. We had help, we had emotional help, because people, obviously had calls, but nobody could come over. You couldn't, if you expected to have him live the year that we wanted him to live, year and a half, because really he only should have lived about six months at that stage, and he did, he lived for a year and a half and I am telling you, The pandemic was actually a positive thing for us, even though it was difficult. It kept me home. I don't know what I would have done because it's not like you can just pick up and stop working for a year and a half. We needed the insurance. We needed, we needed to have that income. So I couldn't have stopped, but at the same time, my job was traveling everywhere. So if it wasn't for the pandemic, I honestly don't know how I would have handled it. That being said, we also couldn't have people come in. So it was unbelievably hard. I was, doing all the cooking, doing all the cleaning. taking care of his meds, getting him to and from doctor's appointments, being on the virtual appointments, making sure that I literally was reading up on all of it. I, we were doing crazy trials that didn't exist. Like literally I'm like, I read about this. What do you think? Should we try it? And he's Yeah, I don't know. We don't see the studies. I'm like, come on guys. He's dying. What let's try it. So that's what it was like. And meanwhile, I was working full time and on zoom full time. I remember one, at one point Sitting in a hospital room because at this point they actually let us go to the, let me in because most of the time, anytime I had to drop him off, I couldn't even go in. It was getting a little bit better. This was towards the end and he had an operation and I was literally sitting in his room in the hospital while he was off at the operation and I was doing a Zoom call with the entire Salesforce doing like a sales meeting update. And I'm just sitting here and literally I get off the call and I'm just like, what am I doing? This is insane.

Susan Gerdeman: 30:04

How was the beauty industry? Were they supportive

Denine Pappalardo: 30:07

of you? Yeah, but again, it was the pandemic, right? So nobody had their footing. Everybody like didn't know what to do. Where it got really hard was once things opened up and we all had to go back, right? And they, they were on, I can't, my CEO was so supportive of me. I could never ever thank them enough. It was amazing. But what I will tell you about a grief journey like this, and this is what people don't understand or know. Unless you go through it yourself, like I said, we were together since I was 16 is when we, we're dating. So I was 16 years old. He's all I knew in my life, like from that world. He was my partner in everything. And when you lose that, like you lose a part of yourself, it's a part of your own identity. And then there's the physical things I had to sell my house. I had to downsize. I, had to do all, figure out all of these things to be on my own, which luckily. Because I traveled so much, being alone wasn't as horrible or shocking because I was alone half the time. So at least I had that adjustment, but it's now all of a sudden, who am I? If I'm not Bill's wife, who am I? And when I went back, I was just very lost. And that first year, it's interesting because You're in a fog and you don't really feel as much. So you're just like just going through the motions. And like I said, I sold my, I did all the things you're not supposed to do the first year. I sold my house, I moved, I did all these things. And I just kept going and going, but then when the second year hit. Now that fog is gone and the reality just like whacks you in the head. And it's interesting because you can go about your life and you're fine. And then all of a sudden you just cry. You just are in a place and you just wail like there, like it just comes from a place that you don't even know where it comes from. And I still, three and a half years later, I still have that, but it's less like it's less and less as time goes on. But my message to anyone that has anyone that's gone through this. Don't forget about year two, don't forget about year three with your friends, with your family members that are going through this because it's there and they're hiding it from you because they don't want you to feel bad anymore. Nobody wants the person, the people around you to feel awkward. And everybody's awkward. Death is awkward. Nobody wants to talk about it, right? And I've always, since the beginning, I'm very, I'm a very open person. Like I'm an open book and I will, give you whatever information in my life I can, if it's going to help somebody. And, I've had people six months in literally say to me, these are like coworkers, do you miss him? And I looked at them and I was just like, I have no words. There's no words to answer that question. Of course, every day of my life. And I will every day of my life. I

Susan Gerdeman: 33:15

think it's tricky. I think people, my mother always said that she said, the funeral is the easy part. Oh, for sure. It's the years later. That it hits you. It's after, it's down the road that you need that support.

Denine Pappalardo: 33:30

Yeah,

Susan Gerdeman: 33:30

and they

Denine Pappalardo: 33:30

say, and people basically want you to I should be okay now, like in the eyes of the world. I should be okay. It's been three and a half years. I'm doing my thing. I'm doing what I, but I will always feel it.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 33:43

You're never going to be the same. Our society, not only globally, but I feel like America, especially we do not teach people about grief. We don't, everyone knows that there are, the five phases of grief, the five stages, but. It's never given like it's space and it's time and it's honor. Even when I lived in Europe, I noticed that they take the time and it's built in that, like the grief is going to be visceral, it's going to be real and it should affect every part of your life. Like you should be gone from work and healing, and you should be able to do a lot of the different things. It's different country by country and culture by culture. But as Americans, it's we're just tough and we cowboy up and soldier It's and sometimes even with women I feel like We have a lot more to prove in a way, and I'm not going to go, wave some big feminist flag, because I don't, I feel that has been a disservice to us in some ways too. It's a whole different podcast. Yes. There is a different set of standards for women and we're expected to be, weak and broken, but also so strong that nobody knows. And if we cry, it makes everyone so uncomfortable that. We have to hold it together, but I think we need to learn to be better about grief, and it's real and if you don't process it if you push it down or speed it up or force it through it's going to come back so much

Denine Pappalardo: 35:05

worse. The biggest bit misnomer is that those stages. they think people think that you go through the stages and you're done. No, you go through it the cycle and over and over and over and over again. So it's just okay, where are you today? Because it vacillates wildly. Like it's an, it's interesting. It's an interesting journey. Like I still, I'm reinventing every part of myself at this point. And it's. It's new every day.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 35:33

How has that been? Has that been fun? You sold a house, you're decorating on your own really for the first time in your adult life. So I'm seeing your beautiful backgrounds, you're choosing colors. It looks like bring you joy and you're infusing that. So like you're building your first home on your own from 17 to 58. And Not the adventure you chose or maybe the adventure you'd want, but it's the adventure that we're on. So how is that going? Are you discovering, wow, I like that color. I like that thing.

Denine Pappalardo: 36:02

And yeah, that's exactly what's happened. And it's, I was lucky, like I said prior, because I also had a place in San Francisco when I was working there. So I was able to do that there also on my own at that point. So I've always had some place that was mine in addition to being both mine and Bill's. But it's cool. Cause now like here, I've blended all the things that I love and all of the places that I've been in my life. And I've moved over 25 times in my life, which is crazy. And I, but I love it. I love to decorate. So that's a, a project to lose yourself in. But I love it. It's great. I feel very comfortable here. It's absolutely mine. It's, but then there's times when it's very lonely, right. And It's tough. Like that part of it's tough. And I don't like, I still have all my friends. My friend group is insane. They're just always there for me, but that's different too. Cause it's a lot of couples, right? It's mostly couples. And so that's awkward and everybody, because I have such a broad range of where I am, like I have friends in California, I have friends in Chicago. I have friends in New York, Miami. Naples, Florida, Texas, like I'm all over the place. And that's hard to do alone too. So it's, it's an adjustment. It for sure is an adjustment, but at the same time, I look at everything, I'm lucky to be breathing today. So I'm just going to get up and, do the best thing that I can and experience what I can. So it's changed my perspective for sure. I'm much more purposeful. Yeah.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 37:26

I think the pandemic did that people change people, some for the good or some for the bad. I remember in the very early days of it happening, I had just had a big surgery. So I was like, I couldn't move. I couldn't do anything. And I was watching the world come crashing down. And it seemed like I was in Los Angeles. And I very quickly at one point, I thought, this is weird. This is going to go on for a long time and I'm either going to come out of this better or worse. And which is it going to be? And I made up my mind really early on. I'm going to come out of this with something to show for it and not, survive it and just survive it. But you had such a different. Experience in that you got to have a very close intimate time with him during a time that who knows where you would have been pulled in and what influences may have been able to come in, but to almost have a private bubble, even though it was hard because you didn't get to have the help you still, I hope there was a little piece in there.

Denine Pappalardo: 38:25

There was. And it was interesting because we had tried to sell our home a couple of years prior to that. And we were going to downsize just. Because we, thought we didn't need the space anymore and it fell through and again another thing like we little did we know we were going to be in that space 24 seven and it had this big huge yard and so we were able at points to have people come and just spend time with him but like you know be distanced. So if we were in a townhouse like I am now like there's no way like everybody's on top of each other. Again, it's like the timing of all of it. It was divine timing for sure. For sure. And it was a blessing. It was a blessing and a curse, but I think more on the side of the blessing, I believe.

Audio Only - All Participants: 39:13

Oh boy. Yeah.

Denine Pappalardo: 39:15

It's a lot. I know it's a lot. It's a lot to process. I'm still processing it all, but it's a lot. I've, I have friends and that have been through this as well and everybody has a different outlook and everybody has different timelines for grieving and, different ways that it looks. Again, I can't get the message out enough, just be patient with people because it's just different. It's a very difficult journey. And it's very different. It's different than a divorce. It's different. You didn't. This is, there is no choice in any of this. And if this didn't happen, we would still be together today. So it's,

Susan Gerdeman: 39:47

yeah, that's, it's tricky because, especially in the positions that you've held, you've always been, someone who's very in control of their career and very in control and made very strong choices in your, beauty career, Denine. And this is something that you absolutely Had no control over that in itself had to be just debilitating at times, I'm sure. And at the same time, I love how you're looking at this as only someone coming from a theater and beauty fantasy world would, there's a beautiful lesson in all of this, and you can look at this as, you don't want to say, Oh, look at death as a gift, but. You really cherished the time that you had with him and now you have come out a different person and you've been given that gift of You now get to be whomever you want to be for the rest of your life. So it's just, it's so interesting. Your take, you come at it as I knew you would from such a beautiful angle.

Denine Pappalardo: 40:54

Yeah.

Susan Gerdeman: 40:54

But

Denine Pappalardo: 40:54

I will say that part of it is a little daunting. I'm like, Oh, that's a lot. What am I going to do? But it's interesting because, I have said that even from the beginning, that this is almost like a reset button. And and because I was so young, when we got married, it's interesting doing the things now that people did in their teen time. And like doing it as an adult. Dating is insanity. At this age, after being with the same

Susan Gerdeman: 41:26

person. Oh my god, and you're oh my god, I don't mean to make a joke, but you've known me not long enough that I'm going to make a joke. Because that's, I'm the one who laughs at funerals. Yes, I do too. It's I want you to write a book, like the beauty guide and widow's guide to, the widow's guide to menopause, and dating. Yeah. You're like going through

Denine Pappalardo: 41:44

all of it at once. Yeah. It's insanity. Yeah. It's insanity with body image problems. Yeah. It's great. It's it's fantastic.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 41:53

I know that I know my mom is standing in her kitchen listening to this part of the episode. She's finally you got to this part. Cause she's, she just turned 70. Yesterday. She's dating. She's dating. And she's it's crazy around here. This is nuts. And my husband and I met late. We've only been married almost three years. So dating for me, that's part of the way that I met him is he was a friend of a friend and I thought he'd be safe to test date. And here we are.

Denine Pappalardo: 42:22

This is the thing, right? Okay. So the biggest challenge Is the whole like app thing. I'm like, oh no, hell no, because it's just not real. Sorry, people believe anything like I'm not going to go sit on a shelf next to other people. No, I mean on Facebook, I find I am getting 25 fake widow, because I did put down that I'm a widow like on my profile. So little did I know now all of a sudden I'm getting 25 of these a day and they're all generals like in the army somewhere and they're like stationed in these, and I'm just like, come on guys. Nothing is real. Like it's crazy. And I don't trust it. So unless it's a friend of a friend or someone I knew in high school. I keep dating people that I knew back when I was 15 it's crazy, but it's, that's the thing, right? Like I need somebody to bet them out. Somebody has got to be vetted. Absolutely.

Susan Gerdeman: 43:14

Yeah, I agree with you. I, yeah, I think you need to be safe out there. And for any of our listeners that are, older women that are widowed or separate or divorced. I always say, God, if God forbid I'm out there again in my life at one time, like you have to be so careful out there. It's a crazy world. So I'm with you to stay off those damn psycho apps and talk to your friends. That's how I met my husband on a blind date. My parents met on a blind date and they've been married for, you Oh, 600 years now. They can send

Hillary Clark-Mina: 43:48

their resumes here and Susan and I will screen them for you. That's fantastic. And you can send your resume to you. And Susan and I will suss it out.

Denine Pappalardo: 43:58

So matchmaking will be your other side. Everything

Hillary Clark-Mina: 44:04

grows organically, right? I love

Denine Pappalardo: 44:07

it. Love it. Yeah, it's tough. It's, I've got a lot of stories. All I can say is both in that and then also people looking for positions or ghosting. Ghosting is the thing that I find to be the most insane. thing that's happening in the world in general. It's just like all of a sudden one minute you're like in it and like you're going on and on, the next minute nothing. Gone, out of there, never hear from them again. Then all of a sudden you hear from them and they're back again oh yeah, like I just talked to you yesterday, it's fine. Hey, so let's pick up where, what?

Hillary Clark-Mina: 44:39

What? No.

Denine Pappalardo: 44:40

What? No.

Audio Only - All Participants: 44:41

Who

Denine Pappalardo: 44:42

does this?

Hillary Clark-Mina: 44:43

They're out looking at other offices.

Audio Only - All Participants: 44:43

Everyone does this.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 44:45

I'm sorry. How is it out there kicking tires? You turned around and it must not have been that great, right? What is wrong with

Denine Pappalardo: 44:50

people? It's weird. It's really weird. It's we've managed to allow this thing where we can just not do the difficult conversations that's, I think at the end of the day, that's what it is. Nobody wants to just say, I'm not ready. Or, this just isn't working out right now, or the timing's wrong, or whatever, just communicate.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 45:11

Accountability.

Denine Pappalardo: 45:12

Communicate. Yeah,

Hillary Clark-Mina: 45:13

the difficult conversations are where all the good stuff is. Yeah, for sure,

Denine Pappalardo: 45:20

but it's yeah, it's been an interesting journey and people come out of the woodworks and it's it's been interesting for sure. So we were going to ask you what is the next

Hillary Clark-Mina: 45:28

10 years like for Denine, but I think it's a work in progress and what fun to go back, even five years from now and read back on your journals from now and, it's a for

Denine Pappalardo: 45:40

documenting. I do think the book might be something that'll happen because I have documented pretty much my entire life. I think I'm going to definitely pull, I'm just not sure what the take is going to be yet. So I've got to work on that. But, and part of it too, like I think the grief journey, I think, the eating disorder journey, like a lot of those things are things that people. Don't want to talk about night. I feel very comfortable talking about them. Maybe that is something that I can, put a twist on it, but make it fun because everything's fun. Like it's life. I always make a joke out of everything.

Susan Gerdeman: 46:10

And, we wouldn't be a beauty podcast on LifeGLOSS. Yes. All if we didn't also ask you, what are your three. favorite makeup products that you're using right now? What are you loving?

Denine Pappalardo: 46:24

Yeah. That's a tough question for me because I'm the girl who has a bag of a hundred things. So that's tough to narrow it down to three, but I will tell you. So Right now I have to say the alpha beta daily pads from Dr. Dennis Gross. Those are great. Those are like one of my favorite skincare items and I'm religious about it and it's crazy, but I just went to pick them up at a spa that I go to and they have a cleanser now, or not a cleanser, a moisturizer that I just picked up and started using that also is in that family and it's brand new and I love it. Like it's got such great. Just the great viscosity and it just feels so good. And and it definitely plumps the skin up. It looks amazing. So I'm a huge Dr. Dennis Gross fan. Like I, I love it. All right.

Susan Gerdeman: 47:10

We'll link those two. Then I'm

Denine Pappalardo: 47:13

going to throw some curve balls. Everything's eyes, when you're this age, the eyes are the tough ones, right? The the eye is the center, right? To the soul of your universe. So I'm always worried about that. REM Beauty has a dep puffing gel that you can use under concealer, and it is surprising, like it was the most surprising product I've ever used. Again, it's, I'm all about te like texture. Yeah. It has one of the coolest textures I've ever used. Really. And it just like literally just smooths everything out. And you can use it under or on top of your concealer. Really cool. And it like, it's a blurring. It's very unique and I just stumbled on it one day and I was like, wow, this is super cool. And then the Inkey List is another one that has an under eye caffeine eye cream that I'm obsessed with. Great. So I use those. I'm going to

Hillary Clark-Mina: 48:05

send you an eye product. You can tell me what you think. I'm like obsessed with it. I'm picking up what you're putting down. I've got something for you to try. I want to see what you think.

Denine Pappalardo: 48:12

Cool. Yeah. So those are my faves. And then I just have to throw out like any mascara or brow product by Benefit Cosmetics. Love them all. They're amazing. That's, I was going to ask

Susan Gerdeman: 48:23

you. I was going to ask you what your favorite mascara is. Cause I think everyone in our industry definitely has probably six in the drawer, but we have the one that we always go back to.

Denine Pappalardo: 48:32

Yeah. It's funny. Yeah. Cause obviously I was with the brand for a number of years and every one of them were fantastic, but I have to say like FanFest is the one that was, I

Audio Only - All Participants: 48:41

knew you were going to say that. And

Denine Pappalardo: 48:46

I, my, my least favorite like type of product ever, even as a makeup artist. Even today, all these years, is any liquid liner. I have to use it. I'm obsessed with using it. And I hate them all. So if anyone has found one out there in the world, please tell me, because I'm telling you, it's every morning it's stress. I'm like, okay, I'm doing the eyeliner now. All right, old eyes stay in place. Let's make this happen. It's tough. Like liquid eyeliner is one of the toughest things to do when your eyes are aging for sure.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 49:22

Oh yeah. My, the location of my wings is different. I used to be flying like, four, seven, seven up here and now there are some days when I'm puffy that I'm like, so we're not doing that today. Or I'll just do the Sophia Loren and stop my liner here and then go left. Yep. Didn't just hate it. What do you mean? The corner of my eye,

Denine Pappalardo: 49:42

corner of my eyes? Wherever I say it is Exactly. Oh yeah. And sometimes it just, and it just keeps getting thicker and thicker.'cause your hand's not as steady. And, and I'm a makeup artist. I'm like, come on

Susan Gerdeman: 49:53

Now, do you like a pen? Do you like a, do you like a pot? Do you like a.

Denine Pappalardo: 49:58

What do you like? It's gotta be liquid. It's gotta be liquid. But a liquid on a brush or is it

Hillary Clark-Mina: 50:03

like a felt tip pen or what is it? pen. Yeah. A felt tip pen. Okay.

Denine Pappalardo: 50:07

So

Hillary Clark-Mina: 50:08

I choose to try Valentino's. Have you tried Valentino's pen? I

Denine Pappalardo: 50:14

have

Hillary Clark-Mina: 50:14

not. It's actually, it's like long but firm. It's worth it. Is it felt tip or is it a brush? It's felt tip.

Audio Only - All Participants: 50:23

Okay. I really like the it's

Hillary Clark-Mina: 50:25

not as ridiculous for Valentino, but Connoisseur. Cause I, it's

Denine Pappalardo: 50:30

tough. They're tough to do. It's just tough. It's a tough one. I used

Susan Gerdeman: 50:34

on a video. What was that? We just recorded that. What? Like the other day, Hill, it's all meshing now, but we did our, for our holiday makeup and Fenty. believe it or not, makes a pen. It's a felt tip pen, but with one of the finest points I've ever seen in a liquid liner. And I would recommend that it's super tiny and it's also a short pen, so you can get more control and it's just really easy. But I'm telling you, The tip on it is like really tiny. So it can get right. You could even do the dots in between the lashes if you wanted to. Like I'm not a liquid liner girl. That's not my thing. So I tried it and I have to tell you, I thought it was fantastic and it's really affordable. That's good. Yeah. It's good to have one with

Hillary Clark-Mina: 51:26

a tiny tip, but it's also good to have one big wide one. Cause sometimes I'm like, if I've got it going, I just want to keep going. I'm like, it's in the right spot. Layer

Audio Only - All Participants: 51:34

down thick. That's where I use a cream. I like a cream. I'm old school. I like a cream with

Denine Pappalardo: 51:41

a brush. That's so funny. So sometimes I find if because I have problems with my, I have bad allergies. So there are days like today, they're really bad. So there are days when like my eyelids are so swollen. I'm like, what am I supposed to do with this? But for some reason, liquid liner seems to cover a lot of the sins. So that's why I tend to go with that. But, and also,

Susan Gerdeman: 52:01

you must have in your little kit somewhere, remember the Chanel cake. Liner.

Denine Pappalardo: 52:09

Yes. That is spectacular. That was good. Yeah. It's funny if I get really desperate, sometimes I will use a brush, wet it and actually just go to an eyeshadow. Yeah. And like darker eyeshadows and and do that. And that actually does work pretty well. Yeah. I just, sometimes I like the thickness texture. Of the liquid. I know what you're saying. There's something again, I'm a texture girl. So there's something about the texture of it that I like. And I also have oily skin still, which is crazy. But it will run if it's not. See, that's why the cake is good for you because it dries down. It has to dry. Otherwise I'm, I can't use pencils. Pencils just are everywhere on me.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 52:48

Oh, I just pulled my lay regard out from Nineties, I had a tester, and again on TikTok, a whole like nineties, Chanel I did my whole eyes with it.

Denine Pappalardo: 52:58

Hillary eyes still intact. Thank God, Denine,

Susan Gerdeman: 53:03

you have no idea what I deal with on this light. I spray it

Hillary Clark-Mina: 53:06

with alcohol. No, I didn't dunk in the cloth. It's not that,

Susan Gerdeman: 53:10

it's bacteria. We don't know what's cooking. Can

Hillary Clark-Mina: 53:12

you please intervene? I was considering that I would spit in it to get the mascara off. Oh, here we go. I swear to you. This was never in my kit. This was my personal.

Susan Gerdeman: 53:23

No, she does her vintage. You need to watch her vintage beauty channel. She'll sometimes go in there and she'll do stuff and she doesn't tell me what she's doing ahead of time. Yeah. Which she should, but she doesn't because she knows that I would say as her older

Audio Only - All Participants: 53:40

sister,

Susan Gerdeman: 53:41

Hilary, you're not doing that.

Audio Only - All Participants: 53:44

Hilary, don't put on that lipstick from the stork club in the 50s. Oh my god. She does that look. I will watch her videos and I will literally start to sweat. This was the first GWP, if you will. This was like the first time. It was a stork

Denine Pappalardo: 54:02

club.

Audio Only - All Participants: 54:02

Look how pretty that

Denine Pappalardo: 54:03

is. That's beautiful. Okay, just to be clear, that should be next to the flowers on that display behind you. Yeah, put that there. Don't put that on your lips.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 54:12

So this is the next thing that I'm doing. Do you guys remember 1989 Safari? Yes. Oh my I

Denine Pappalardo: 54:25

actually remember this bottle. But

Hillary Clark-Mina: 54:28

wait. Yeah. Wait. Oh. Bronzer. I got the climate response bronzer. You have the bronzer.

Susan Gerdeman: 54:34

Wow. How'd you get that? I love that bronzer. That color was so beautiful. I have my way. Wow.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 54:40

But look. Oh, I have a Hilary, do you have a tetanus shot bottle? Yeah. I'm getting dressed in a safari outfit and I'm doing the whole thing on TikTok. Oh my goodness. Because this was the first Wait, do you Oh my goodness. Huh. Hill. Yeah. When was your last

Susan Gerdeman: 54:52

tetanus shot? I have

Audio Only - All Participants: 54:56

three brothers. I've lived through it all. That's amazing, guys. This stuff she

Denine Pappalardo: 55:02

does, I swear. Isn't it amazing? Look how beautiful that bottle is stunning.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 55:07

The ad campaign captivated my little 15 year old mod heart so much, that I like, cleared out my bedroom, I pulled in my grandmother's alligator suitcases and stacked them up for my bedside tables. Of course you did. I was so influenced. This was my first Oh my god! And I was like, I had chopped blonde hair because I didn't want to be objectified, but then all of a sudden I, oh my

Audio Only - All Participants: 55:29

god. I don't want to be objectified, but

Susan Gerdeman: 55:32

I'm still really good. So that's Safari Bronzer. So I was at Nordstrom as a beauty director when that hit. Real

Audio Only - All Participants: 55:40

suede bags.

Susan Gerdeman: 55:41

Okay. That Safari Bronzer. It was the best shade. And I'll tell you why there was literally no orange in it. And it was a red based. Yeah,

Denine Pappalardo: 55:54

that is, you can tell red and brown

Susan Gerdeman: 55:56

on Yeah, it is the best color ever made in a bronzer. And I'm telling you someone out there. You know what? No, no one do it because we're going to do it. But seriously, that color is legendary. That bronzer was everything. I wore that bronzer every

Audio Only - All Participants: 56:14

day.

Susan Gerdeman: 56:15

I

Hillary Clark-Mina: 56:15

know

Denine Pappalardo: 56:17

yeah. They literally, every piece of how that product was put together is, that's luxury. So good. That's luxury right there. So good. Yeah. That is, that was a good one.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 56:26

Real suede.

Denine Pappalardo: 56:27

That is real suede

Hillary Clark-Mina: 56:28

and it is stamped with the rl.

Denine Pappalardo: 56:31

Wow.

Susan Gerdeman: 56:31

Denine, you need to come back on because Hillary, let's keep doing this. This will really make your toes curl. And I'm telling you. I just

Hillary Clark-Mina: 56:41

spent the weekend at my mom's house. I had her pull out some of the old kits that I've left there or old kits that I made for, I had an old prescriptives box. You'll be seeing it. Oh, wait, I got a few

Susan Gerdeman: 56:55

things. Hell, you were there for your mom's birthday, and I just have to say, Hillary and I have a lot in common, and as many people know, and we have a big life together, but our moms have the same birthday, December

Audio Only - All Participants: 57:12

16th. That's crazy! Oh my gosh, that's crazy! Can you believe

Susan Gerdeman: 57:17

that? That's amazing! Happy birthday, Lorraine. Happy birthday, Glenis. Yes. Yes. Happy birthday. They both just had a birthday yesterday. So yeah, my

Denine Pappalardo: 57:27

mom has her 80th on January

Audio Only - All Participants: 57:30

3rd.

Denine Pappalardo: 57:31

Yeah. I can't believe it. We're very excited. Should

Susan Gerdeman: 57:34

I say how old Glenis is? She's 87. Wow. At home, running around chasing after my dad, who's 92. Oh my goodness. So there you go. There you go. Love that in the same house, still running a mile. Good. Don't go into the gym every day.

Denine Pappalardo: 57:54

That's fantastic.

Susan Gerdeman: 57:55

To be said for all this.

Denine Pappalardo: 57:56

Oh, for sure. I'll tell you the gym. It's all about weights. It's all about weights. It is. It is the fountain of youth. I've come to that conclusion. It's not quite as good as it used to be. The older you get, but it's still better than if you didn't do it for sure.

Susan Gerdeman: 58:08

Exactly. I agree. Could not agree more with you. Yeah.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 58:11

you guys have inspired me to start doing more weights'cause I've been doing, just outside cardio and some resistance. I do a ton

Denine Pappalardo: 58:18

of cardio but

Hillary Clark-Mina: 58:19

weights, Susan's doing weights too. So now we

Denine Pappalardo: 58:22

gotta throw'em around. Everyone. You guys have

Hillary Clark-Mina: 58:23

got me. I'll start doing it.

Denine Pappalardo: 58:25

It's good. Thank

Hillary Clark-Mina: 58:26

you.

Audio Only - All Participants: 58:27

Thank you. You'll love it. You'll love

Denine Pappalardo: 58:29

it. This is so much fun. This is so

Audio Only - All Participants: 58:32

much fun.

Susan Gerdeman: 58:32

Much. This was so much fun. We cannot thank you enough. Absolutely. Absolutely. It was great.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 58:38

Thank you.

Susan Gerdeman: 58:39

So happy holidays. Happy New Year and to be continued.

Hillary Clark-Mina: 58:44

To be continued. We never say goodbye. We say goodbye to some of our guests, but there are others that we're like, no, I think you rope them all back. I was going to say, I feel like we always say, see you next time. Everybody just keeps coming back. All right, everyone. All right, guys. Happy holidays. Happy holidays, Denise. Happy holidays. Stay glossy, everyone.