Ep. 4: Lead Anyway-Mentors, Missteps and the New Age of Influence

Carson, Jaden and Nicole are back and discuss leadership in healthcare! They speak on leadership styles, formal vs. informal leadership, mentorship, social media influence and more!

Follow @critcarecrossroads on Instagram for updates about the show and more content from the crew!

Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:52)
Work hangovers are real and I got absolutely wrecked last night. So I'm really sorry if I'm tired. Guy's been flying all night, but how are you guys doing?

Speaker 1 (01:01)
I just got back from a vacation and I'm gonna probably go get wrecked at work tomorrow but that's beside the point.

Speaker 2 (01:07)
It's the trend is what's happened to everybody. Jayden, how you been,

Speaker 3 (01:11)
doing great. I just finished a nice time at the gym. I got a new coffee maker because my coffee maker that I just got broke within a matter of a day. So we're doing great here.

Speaker 2 (01:21)
Perfect. Well, Nicole, you want to tell the people what we're talking about today? Sure. the way on this one.

Speaker 1 (01:28)
Yeah, well, hi, everyone. Today we are going to be talking about leadership styles and like the good, the bad, the ugly of how we have had leadership experiences and everything in between. So we hope you guys enjoy this one. And yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46)
Yeah, what do you guys think, just starting off, what does leadership mean to you guys?

I will see them both nose gosing.

Speaker 1 (01:52)
leadership for me anyways is I'm not gonna lead in something that I haven't done myself so like is it teach one do one see or see one teach one do one how do you say that god take this

Speaker 3 (02:07)
Oh no, no,

Speaker 2 (02:10)
do one teach one right

Speaker 1 (02:12)
Alright.

Speaker 2 (02:15)
Yeah, C1, D1 to each one, I think is the same, because it's a Graze Anatomy thing.

Speaker 1 (02:20)
Yes. OK.

over.

Speaker 3 (02:20)
⁓

When it comes to leadership, a leader is somebody that is willing to do the very thing they're telling you to do. Like no matter what position you are, they should be able to know and understand and do those things they're asking you to go do. Whether that's in the military asking them to go PMCS a vehicle or that's a charge nurse asking you to go do this with a specific patient. Like everybody should be able to understand the task that they're giving out and being able to

fulfill it themselves if need be.

Speaker 2 (02:49)
I decided while I was writing, or while like we were collaborating the outline for this episode, legit a couple hours ago, I decided that I was going to look up a definition of leadership. And a lot of these definitions have the word lead in the definitions, but one that I found the AI threw together, so I don't have a good way to quote where it came from is the ability to influence, guide, and motivate individuals or groups toward achieving a common goal. So something as simple as that, and there are different ways that we can go about that, I guess.

That's my take so far.

Speaker 1 (03:21)
See one, do one, teach one. That is my take now that I have that in the correct order. If I'm going to teach somebody something, whether it's like, you know, just a simple skill of like OPAs and NPAs, I...

I'm not going to teach somebody something that I don't know how to do myself. Like, you know, we all get the instructors that come into a class and they're like, I've never done this or I don't know how to do this just in the book, but I'm just going to read it to you guys. It's like, well, that doesn't really, like, I don't have very much trust in you to like be able to actually teach me the correct information to where I can go and like actually use that, you know, in real life. Like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna trust that. So like my EMT students who they are.

brand new, they have light still in their eyes and they're doing great. And I'm not gonna be like, hey, I don't know how to put in this OPA. I've never done this, but this is what the book says and I expect you to do it. I expect you to do it correctly even though I've never done it. So being able to like be very humble in what you do and what you don't know and not just like stepping in and teaching something that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. So answer.

Speaker 2 (04:32)
Yeah,

I think you said it kind of in that last statement too. Even when you're tasked with or having to teach someone or direct someone on a task you're not very familiar with it that you don't know, at least not being a charlatan and admitting, hey, I've never actually done this before, but this is what I've studied and these are the lessons I've learned. At least secondhand, I can pass on to you. Having that sort of disclaimer really shows a good personality and leadership. Also part of my whole light display behind me just fell.

Speaker 1 (04:59)
A ghost.

Speaker 3 (05:00)
Yeah. ⁓

Speaker 2 (05:01)
Go

ahead,

Speaker 3 (05:03)
Something that stands out to me about certain leaders and AGI comes in between that is a leader that isn't afraid of asking or telling somebody to, hey, come with me, let's do this task together. Because like what you said, we talk about a lot in the military is that it is super easy for leaders or even people in some of the inside to be able to just go and do the task themselves.

two days later, a year later when that person leaves, nobody knows how to fulfill that task. A leader and somebody within the civilian side or in the military side is somebody that is willing to say, hey, Carson, come with me, man. I want to go show you this. And then next time, Carson, I taught you how to do it. Will you go do that real quick? And then now that person can physically see you do those things like what the quote would say, see one, do one, teach one.

Being able to facilitate that and seeing that on the life is super rewarding.

Speaker 2 (06:00)
I love that you dropped that because you and I will both know what we're talking about in every example. We had this guy that knew how generators. He knew exactly how to start the generator anytime something was messed up with it, how to fix it. And then he left the military. His career was up to a point where he didn't want to continue, which was totally fine. He's a good family man. But we went to the next annual training and realized, yeah, none of us know how to do generators. We always relied on the guy. And he would teach us every year. We were just like, no, he's the guy. He's got it.

Speaker 3 (06:05)
I just knew how to do

Don't worry, man. I don't need to put this anywhere. Go out the reddit down, nothing. And then here we are sitting around the general like, what? It is absolutely insane to think about, but like you don't realize the amount of knowledge or the abilities of somebody until after that person's gone. Right. And that's both civilian and even in the military, civilian, somebody that you can always depend on to get an IV for you or to know the proper dosing for medications or

Speaker 2 (06:36)
next. I don't know how to turn it on.

Speaker 3 (06:58)
seeing a patient presentation, somebody you could reach out to, they're no longer there. You're like, man, where do I go to next? And so sometimes it can be very frustrating to see that because you yourself can be that person for others where you're like, hey, I don't want you to come to me for everything. I want you to have that knowledge now. Like I want to facilitate you getting that knowledge and find ways to prepare you and to challenge you to get that knowledge yourself.

Speaker 2 (07:23)
And as a student, that can make you uncomfortable, know, understanding that like they are pushing your comfort level, but that's by design, that's for a reason. So you got to trust that leadership as well.

Speaker 1 (07:32)
There's always a difference between pushing a comfort level and then just like putting them out there like to sink or swim kind of thing. you know, there's always instructors or, you know, you, your partner on the truck you've never worked with and they want to like do it to belittle you. there are many different ways to allow people to go out of their comfort zone, but still being able to be there, helping little hands coming in like, Hey, I saw that you did this, but

Maybe let's do this. You're like, hey, what are you thinking on this? Like what, you know, what do you think is going on with the patient? A lot of people just throw new grads or new hires out into the wild to be eaten. They just don't care. I mean, there's plenty of different ways to like allow people to get out their comfort zone, but still being able to support them.

Speaker 2 (08:19)
or at least being a safety net.

Speaker 3 (08:21)
A safety net. So Carson has seen me and a few of our other people kind of putting together. He's even been a part of it of trying to find a safety net and trying to challenge people and put them in some difficult positions where they're being forced to run scenarios without those people that are sitting right there at all times to be able to save them within like patient diagnosing treatments or anything like that. We step away and we give them a scenario in an environment where they're able to run the whole show.

However, that being said, we're still there to be resources and to be able to kind of guide them along in that process. But we're trying to keep our hands off to be able to kind of give them the opportunity to be uncomfortable, to then get into a point where it's like falling apart. But then you're like, Hey, let's take a pause. Let's, sit down and discuss where this either a went wrong or what questions did you have or where did you feel like that you no longer knew what to do next? Because that gives it an opportunity to be able to.

learn themselves, but also have the opportunity to feel like, hey, this is where we're facilitating those opportunities to improve our own knowledge and our own understanding of how the process works.

Speaker 2 (09:31)
Yeah, I think one big misconception that we, as really anyone in the military and healthcare, wherever it is, especially whenever you first get involved, is thinking that the person that is a leader has to have some sort of extra certification or extra job title when really it's not about the rank of title of certification. It's more about the culture around that person. And when I was...

working on this outline, taking the ideas you guys gave me and everything else. Sometimes I put it into a little generator that will help me organize my thoughts. And it came up with, leadership is a behavior, not a position. I don't know if that's a quote that someone said or if it's something that AI just spat out at me, but I really like that.

Speaker 3 (10:09)
Talk about behaviors is something that we touch on. We just touched on a little bit ago is a behavior is just.

when you walk in their room, there's some times that you might have somebody that has that position, but some people look to somebody else completely because that person feels more natural for them, somebody they can go to. So it's understanding how to be a leader while also being in a position, but also understanding that you should be able to accustom to the lower positions within your facility, within your unit or anything like that, finding ways to include everybody.

Speaker 1 (10:44)
it's like anywhere where you get a new promotion and you feel like you have to prove yourself in something. And so some people do really well in that and they're able to step into that role and still be very humble and know that there's somebody that may know a little bit more about a subject than they know. But then there's some people that step into a promoted role and they are like, nope, I'm the best thing ever and I'm not gonna listen to anyone and they don't know more than me.

I think it's all about how you approach that. Your behavior in a promoted position, like a leadership position, is very important because if you're always coming in and you're being super rude, you're belittling your people, you're talking down to them, they're eventually not gonna wanna listen to you. They're gonna not necessarily turn against you, but they're...

not going to want anything to do with you. They're not going to trust you. They're not going to like turn to you if they need help because why would you turn to the person who belittles you in an educational setting in like a real life scenario? Like you're in the back of an ambulance. Like, why would you turn to that person and ask for help on something when you don't know the repercussions, if they're going to like, you know, belittle you and you get back to the station or like you were, you were so dumb. How did you not know how to do this? But I think that

behavior is definitely a super important part of that and like some people take advantage of that, I guess, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (12:11)
Yeah, I think also that leads to a cool discussion point. I don't think we talk enough about this, but there's so much leadership in the ability to follow someone else as a leader, right? I think that we're in this state of healthcare or EMS where that relatively new person that only has like a year or two under their belt and is there in their mid 20s is getting a leadership role. Like maybe they're an FTO or a supervisor now or they're precepting or they're on that charge nurse role.

While you could be in that position where you have more experience than them, but maybe you did or did not put in for that, the ability to follow that person's guidance and their leadership and trust their leadership, not only does that work for the dynamic of you and that leader, but it also sets the tone for the culture for everybody else around and helps out the entire dynamic of the team. What do you guys think about that?

Speaker 1 (12:58)
I think that there's plenty of people who are promoted into roles that have lesser experience, you know, at a particular station base, whatever, other than the other people that are there and being open to the idea that somebody could be promoted into a role because of their experience or their certificates or whatever they have that makes them the best fit for that position. Like if somebody was promoted underneath me,

Like they have less experience than me. They're promoted into a role that I also put in for or that I didn't put in for. Whoever my leader feels is fit for that position, I'm going to trust that their their decision is the best and that they made that decision for the best of the base or the station or the fire department, whatever it is. There's lots of people that are promoted into roles that have six months of experience in a certain position or something that they're the best fit and.

If that's the case, then I will trust them and I'll help them in whatever way that I can. Um, because working as a team helps the dynamic of the entire department, you know, for the best. Like if you're constantly going after that person, then they're, I mean, they're going to worn down. They're not going to want to like help you improve on anything. Um, so I think that building the culture of like, Hey, I'm here to help you and help you help me kind of thing. Like, I think as long as you build that culture, you should be fine. Like attacking the person isn't.

Gonna get you anywhere, I guess.

Speaker 2 (14:20)
Right. And I think Jayden's Jayden knows what I'm talking about. Whenever we do this, we do this a lot in the military where we put someone in that leadership role, not necessarily because they're ready for it right now, but because we know that they have the opportunity to grow. And that would be great for that individual soldier to grow into that Sergeant role or that squad leader role. Maybe there's someone out in that team that they're on or in the squad they're on that. Yeah, there are going to be a great squad leader. can throw them there, but we want this person that's younger that has more time on their contract and more time in their career.

to develop those skills. So we'll put them in that role as a challenge to them, but also a way to build the entire team with the ability to also synergistically use those people that have more experience around them to help them grow. And everyone's on board with that, it really is a best case scenario.

Speaker 3 (14:59)
we usually use the, we talked about during our last training event is two up and one down, where you should be able to just fulfill your role two ranks above you and then one role, one rank below you. I'm talking about that room. it's really nice to do these types of, in the military it's nice because it's almost kind of like

Speaker 1 (15:13)
And we're not.

Speaker 3 (15:22)
forced that you have to respect that position is given to them. Like if I'm giving Carson a squad leader position, then the rest of the squad kind of has to like get over it because they're in charge of the thought he's in charge of them. But at the same time, we have that culture within our unit and most units that I've seen that we know that this is specifically for a training opportunity. We want to make Carson uncomfortable because this might be a position he's never done. Like he said that

this gives them an opportunity to truly grow in a different way because there might be a day where a lot of the NCOs are gone and he has to step up in that role and be prepared to fill that role just in case something happens. Or if we went to a deployment or anything like that, can we trust in him to fulfill that role? It's super awesome to see that because you see that first initial moment if you're doing it correctly and being able to find

where that person needs to be taught, you can see how uncomfortable they were to begin with. And a month or two down the line, you give them this opportunity to do something that may not be exactly the same, but he knocks it out of the park. Being able to put them in that position, then a year later, after he is an NCO, he's like, man, I didn't truly understand why started who and who made me do this, but now I truly understand why they put me in those positions and why I had to go through those.

difficult times to be able to prepare me for this position now. So it becomes one of those things you can call back on and you're very thankful for those moments.

Speaker 2 (16:54)
I do have to provide some brief context. I won't go super in depth into the story, but essentially we were really practicing in a training event what we can do at our most bare bones structure with our lowest enlisted on the rank structure. And someone made the comment, I don't know if we can do two up, we can definitely do one down. And that comment stuck with us the rest of the training. No, but I do think that you make a great point that it's different in the military culture versus the rest is where they kind of have to listen to that guy.

Speaker 3 (17:14)
That's right.

Speaker 2 (17:20)
where I think in the healthcare culture, especially inside the hospital environments, as opposed to the EMS and the fire, like those paramilitary environments, people feel that they don't have to listen to the leadership as much and that it's more culturally accepted to kind of go against the grain of their leadership's vision. And I think that if we can use this as a way to communicate that, yeah, that young charge nurse or whatnot, if we can all work on the same team and rally around them, we've seen in the military how this grows the entire team.

I like that you bring up the differences in cultures. Nicole, you got anything on that?

Speaker 1 (17:50)
I think that it's kind of the same for EMS and FIRE. I mean, depending on the department you work for, there's lots of people who have been there the longest and they think that you should listen to them whether or not they have an actual promoted rank or not. You get somebody promoted in a position that nobody expected them to be promoted into and it's like, well, I'm not gonna listen to him. I'm not gonna listen to her. What are you talking about? What makes you think I'm gonna listen to them? I think that that...

That happens pretty frequently as well in the EMS world and the fire

guess like my question for all of us really, what is your leadership style? Like how do you mentor somebody? How do you do the thing? Well, around the room.

Speaker 2 (18:38)
Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think given that both Jayden and I wear multiple hats, I think we kind of tailor our leadership styles to the culture, right? The military is huge on, and when you're in that NCO or that middle leadership role being servant leadership or a servant leader, which means you do your best to give your people the tools and the ability to go forth and conquer, but not necessarily do the go-forthing and conquering for them. Everyone.

kind of pictures of military and more of an authoritarian, excuse me, an authoritarian, I can't speak today, I'm tired. you know the word I'm looking for in that style of leadership, right? And I think that that's more of a misconception than it really is because it's already been drilled in us to just respect the leadership. once that dynamic is down, you have a good respect for everybody around you, the servant leadership is really the way to go. And I tried doing that when I was a charge nurse,

And kind of got mixed results because it depends on the different generations that I'm leading. Like when you're leading a Gen Z brand new nurse, it's going to be a lot different. The expectations are going be different than that old boomer nurse has been doing it for 20 years, as well as tailoring your leadership to their specific needs and just in the knowledge depth, right? These new grads are going to need more help managing the patients. And if you give the boomer nurse has been there for 20 years, the same type of help, you're micromanaging, right? So really understanding your team.

Speaker 3 (19:59)
feel the same way where I think it just depends on who your squad is, what your environment is. Are you doing a training environment for medical or are you doing a strictly a military exercise? Are you in civilian side? I don't have any civilian leadership position other than on a board that I sit on. But that is just simply guiding others kind of like saying like, like, what do you think about this or how can I help you?

get to where we're at here. Like Carson said, it's just kind of understanding what your group specifically means. Like my squad has like different priorities. One person really enjoys the medical knowledge and wants to learn more about that. One person really wants more engagement within the military side. So understanding the goals and the perspectives within your squad or your unit, or even in your department is gonna be your first thing.

Speaker 2 (20:30)
So.

Speaker 3 (20:55)
And it takes some time to kind of play around with it that I learned, especially being a young NCO, is understanding that it's not gonna happen all at once. You're gonna have some mess ups. You're gonna have moments where you feel like you're not a good leader. Carson has definitely witnessed a few moments where I came to him like, dude, that was crap. I'm so sorry. But like that is how you grow as a leader is understanding that and having the humility to understand that that wasn't a good way to approach.

or that wasn't a good way to necessarily approach this problem or this training exercise. And then being able to evolve that and take the comments and concerns from your lower enlisted or from people that you work with in the swimming side and also from your leadership and trying to combine those things and finding that middle ground. So I think it's just truly understanding your own, what you're the best at and also taking what you need from your team or your department or whatever and understanding what they need.

and being the kind of fill in those gaps and trying to understand that it's not going to be perfect from out the gate and just trying to fine tune that and trying to find where everybody fits in the best and finding who's going to benefit you the most within those moments of weakness.

Speaker 2 (22:07)
Nicole, how would you answer your own question with that?

Speaker 1 (22:09)
Now I feel like my answer is going to be horrible. I think culture has to do a lot with it. You know, if I get a new paramedic or a new EMT, I ask them like, how can I help you? What can I do to help you? What do you want to learn from me? know, newer students, they typically they're scared. They're terrified of being out there taking care of real life patients and like it's their patient. Giving them like the support condition of being like, hey, I'm here to help you.

So you let me know what you need from me. I will typically sit back and I'll watch them do something and I won't critique it to where it's like they'll go crying or something. you know, like small, small little comments here and there of like, Hey, I saw like what you were doing and why you did it. But like, here's kind of where my brain was going. I learned the best going through paramedic school of like, if I was running a call, I would run the call and I would tell my preceptor like why I'm doing something afterwards. They would say, you know, you did this, but

I would do this. And so then the next call, if it was like the same situation, I would be thinking like, hey, you know, like he said this and I maybe I could think of that. Maybe it's on my radar now. I feel like showing them that like you're very supportive of them and you're not out to get them. You were there to help them, guide them and get them through a call successfully to where they're not going to end up killing their patient. You know, you hear

It was my favorite thing I heard. People out of paramedic school and EMT school know just enough to kill somebody. And it's kind of true. You have all these tools in the toolbox and you're like, how do I figure out how do I use this? How do I put them into practice safely and successfully? I think that supporting my students or supporting

my co-workers in whatever way that I can, I feel like that's the best way for me to lead. Sometimes it's like, well, no, want to see you do this or asking somebody, hey, do you know how to do this? And they're like, yeah, I do. Okay, well, can you show me? Well, why do you want me to show you? It's like, well, because I want you to show me that you know how to do it so that I feel comfortable and that you know how to do this skill. Some people take offense to that, but it's like,

just so I know that like, you actually do know how to do the skill that you're telling me that you know how to do.

Speaker 2 (24:26)
actually brought up the point that I wanted to bring up. And that's the fact that a lot of these new students don't know what they don't know. And they could ask, like what I've noticed is students ask for guidance and clarification more often than not. mean, this isn't a hundred percent true, but more often than not when they want something is because they're nerding out over that thing and they already know enough about it for their skill level. Well, I want to know more about 12 leads. Yeah. The fact that you want to know more tells me that you probably know how to interpret a 12 lead at the basic new paramedic level.

But do you know much about OB emergencies? And when you start probing and assessing your student with that, you find out that that's where the real deficiency lies. So I'm more than happy to answer those questions, but also being structured in your plan for mentoring this person and understanding that you cover all the bases instead of just listening to what they want to learn about. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (25:13)
Yeah, I like I want them to show me what they know how to do. I want to know where the deficiencies are and where I can kind of like put my input in and help them grow as clinicians or as persons. Like I reached out to one of my EMT students and from this last class and I'm like, hey, tell me what I did that kind of stuck out in like a leadership way or a mentoring way that you'll remember. Like what

What was best for you? Kind of told him like, Hey, it's gonna maybe be in a podcast. So thanks, Hunter. He said, I liked how well you explained everything. You never talked down to me. But most of all, you have a smart ass kind of jokey mentality. And that was probably my favorite. I always had fun with you. And I learned best when I'm having fun. He then he went on to tell a story about how this patient insulted me on a call. And I just kind of like sat there and smirked and he just was like,

I appreciate you and my partner that was on the truck that day. And he was like, I'll never forget how professional you stayed because I don't know that I could have stayed that professional outside of seeing that for my own eyes. And you get new students that like they've never seen something. You can read a scenario all day long. You can read about it in a book, but like for me, it doesn't stick until I actually do the skill. And I think that having the students or coworkers actually doing the skill leads to

being better clinicians. And then obviously there's like the personal side of things like helping people be better. Like, you know, people are like, I'm sorry. It's like, well, don't be sorry, be better, you know, like

Speaker 2 (26:48)
Damn, just drop it.

Speaker 1 (26:50)
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:52)
Yeah. No, I wanted to ask this question. I think it's a really interesting one. And I want to hear both of guys' takes. Have you ever been mentored by someone that didn't know they were mentoring

Speaker 1 (27:02)
Yes. And I learned a lot from him. He was fantastic. He had his own way of teaching things, but it was like the best experience that I've had like going to calls, I'd be driving the truck, I was going through paramedic school, was an EMT at the time driving the truck to calls, like, you know, not thinking that I'm going to be answering paramedic tech questions. And he would ask me like,

What are some indications or like what would be some symptoms of like a head injury? know, like what could be some causes of that? And I'd have to like answer that or he'd ask me pharmacology questions all the time. He was a fantastic mentor even though he didn't know he was mentoring me in those situations. I would watch him on calls and like watch kind of the flow of how he ran his calls and that kind of like set forth how I started taking care of my patients. You know, you.

watch all types of people, how they do things, because sometimes it's a little bit easier than a way that I would have done it. And so him not knowing that he was actually mentoring me, I would watch that and I'm like, well, that's a good way to do that. I'm going to do that for myself now. So like the flow that I kind of have in the back of the truck was all started from watching this individual taking care of his patients. And I mean, he was my first partner when I got my paramedic license.

got my state paramedic license and was put into the ESO system and we got a call and he said, you're teching this call, you're up, you're gonna do great. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. And he was like, see you at the hospital and like close the back doors. I'm like, what? Oh my gosh. But it was a good experience even though half the time he didn't know he was actually mentoring

Speaker 3 (28:36)
One of favorite things that she said about that is somebody that will like just ask you simple questions to ask whether that's like, hey, like on the way to a call, do you know what we're looking for or what we should be biggest concern of? Do you know what our tribute would be if this happened? I love that. I love having this, it's like I'm quizzing you. It's just more to get your like wheels turning.

Speaker 1 (28:58)
yeah, I I do that with all of my students now too. Like it was a really great resource for me. mean, like looking back, I'm so very thankful that that is what he would do for me because like it keeps your brain constantly going of like, well, I didn't think of that or, know, like it helped me entirely. And I still do that to this day with my students. And I mean, it's really nice.

Speaker 3 (29:22)
Carson knows probably who I'm going to mention, but when I was a very young medic in the military, I was this very odd kid that just didn't know anything from anyone to anywhere. And I just kind of like fell into this one group with our unit that we were just a bunch of goofballs. We had this one NCO that was in charge of us that like always would try to point us in the right direction. And then as I grew in the military,

I'd always go to him for like asking questions or what I should do better as a medic or anything like that. And he wasn't necessarily my mentor. He was just in charge of us because I had my own squad leader. But as I grew with the military, he would always provide these challenges that I never thought were challenges for me. Whether that was, hey, let's think about how we can do this better or the property yelling at me every now and then, or making me do exercises.

But like as I progressed, more and more did I realize that he was a mentor to me without me ever realizing he was truly my mentor and continued to grow me as a leader as well as a soldier as well as a medic. And to this day, like, I'm thankful for his leadership and his challenges he presented to me because now I'm trying to be more like him every day. I often call him my father in the military. So by far one of the greatest men I've ever met that have

really pointed me into the direction I needed to become as a leader and somebody I could still look to for different things. And he definitely knows now that he used to came like a mentor to me, but in the beginning, he definitely did it.

didn't necessarily take that role, but he always felt like that afterwards of like, Hey, like you were a mentor to everybody without even knowing.

Speaker 2 (31:01)
And I think that brings up a segue into formal versus informal mentorship, right? The formal mentorship being that this guy is defined as your preceptor. He is going to be mentoring you. You're going to be with them for the next like 12 months or six weeks, whatever, however long your thing is. Or this is your defined teacher you're going to take the semester class with versus the people that just get drawn to someone that's been there a little bit more and learn lessons from these people that there's no defined.

like a defined mentorship situation, right? Between those two things. And I think that you almost learn more from those informal mentors and your formal ones, because those are the ones that really set the standard for the culture around you. And a lot of times those informal mentors don't even realize they're doing it like we both said, too. And now I think we're both at a point in our careers where it's safe enough to say we've been that for other people. And it's important to kind of reflect on ourselves and how we carry ourselves to work every single day or into whatever we're doing every single day, in order to really

make sure that we're spreading the culture that we want to spread.

Speaker 1 (31:59)
I think that being able to...

Being able to be the person that people can come to, like as a new student or a new grad or whatever situation that you're in, them being able to come to you with any issue or concern or question that they have is super important. Like I have been that person for a couple different people and I enjoy being that person they go to or they'll call me up and they'll go, hey, I had this weird call. Can you like kind of talk through it with me? I think that the informal process is

is way better in my opinion, just because like the formal, you know, got the paperwork, you have to do this at this time and this month they need to be doing this and the next month they need to be doing this. And you get caught up in the paperwork sometimes that you don't actually realize like, how is this person actually doing? Like, are they meeting the mark on the paper? Yes, but how are they doing actually? Like informally watching a person, you can learn so much from them. You can...

judge like are they actually getting what I'm saying or are they just checking the boxes on this paperwork?

Speaker 2 (33:00)
Yeah, and I think you also brought up a good point. The reality is that your peers can mentor each other. And I think Nicole and I were a great example of this dynamic whenever we ended up on the aircraft. Because for all intents and purposes, we were peers. mean, we had different licenses, but you're peers in that sense. But at the same time, we learned so much from each other, where I got a lot of paramedic skill from her, or she got a lot of nursing skill, I like to think, from me in terms of like,

managing complex drips and managing complex IFT patients. And we both came from an area where we had relatively similar experience levels. We've been in the game for about the same amount of time. It wasn't like I've been there five years longer than her, she'd been there five years longer than me. So there's nothing wrong with using your peer to mentor you in those situations as well.

Speaker 1 (33:44)
I mean, absolutely. Like we would bounce ideas off of each other in the air or like I would come to him and like, suck at drips. Can you help me with this? Or I would like to maybe say that he would have that same in return for like airway skills with me. Like, hey, can you help me with this? I mean, we had a conversation about using the bougie and I was out in the hangar with him helping like kind of show him how I did that.

Not that he's incapable of doing it. I believe that he is and I've seen it. Like helping each other and like having little tips and tricks of like how you get through it with each call. Like you work so much better as a team. And I mean, so many times we were just bouncing ideas off of each other and you know, being like, well, I saw this this one time and this worked or this happened, you know, for a couple of patients in a row, it worked really well and we would put it into play and it would work great.

Speaker 2 (34:34)
Where I see this a lot, subtle plug for these conferences like ResusX is doctors learning from doctors. It's not like there's a higher level doctor teaching these other lower level doctors too. And it's cool seeing all these people in the same room with their individual like niche part and corner of the healthcare realm doing that sort of thing. So I'll be at ResusX, come say hi, grab a beer with me.

Speaker 1 (34:56)
I do not know if I will be. I've been asked, but I don't know if I will be. But I'm going to try to go to Crash and Learn at the end of the year. So I went a couple of years ago, and I really enjoyed it. But that leads into the quiet leader versus the loud one. What are your takes on that?

Speaker 2 (35:04)
could get that one too.

Speaker 3 (35:20)
Well, I unfortunately talk a lot, I'm also get like really nervous when I talk a lot because there's sometimes like, yeah, this is great. And then I'm like, holy, I'm not saying that word. Holy crap. I speak a lot.

Speaker 2 (35:31)
No, I think that there's a time and a place for both though. think that like, for example, all three of us probably fit into the loud sense in the sense that we decided we're to make a podcast together and put it out on the internet. So there is that too. the people that there's such a place for the people that show up, do their absolute best and leave and don't talk about it. Cause those are the ones that we look to not only for like the moral support, but also the

Holy cow, this guy shows up and does this thing the right way. Let me kind look over my own shoulder here and see how they're doing it so that way I can kind of put that in my practice as well. I think that a healthy amount of both those types of styles really make for a good culture on a team.

Speaker 1 (36:07)
Just because you are the loudest in the room or the department or whatever doesn't make you the best leader. Like Carson, I think the healthy balance between the two, like being loud when you need to be loud, but also being quiet, like sitting back and watching your new partner or your new EMT, your paramedic doing something without like yelling at them or just being like so loud and overbearing. I mean,

I would be nervous coming into a position and having the loud overbearing leader like over my shoulder. I would be like, this is over-simulating. I'm not learning anything. Like I stopped learning when this person got really loud. Like just because of the loudest in the room doesn't mean that you're the best leader. You need a healthy balance between the two and...

Speaker 2 (36:57)
Yeah. But I do think that loud, there is a healthy version of that. that more is passionate. That is a passionate type. Like we have a mutual friend. She puts herself out there quite a bit. Nurse Gwennie is one of the loudest teachers I've ever had in the terms of she's always got all these thoughts and she's speaking in a million miles an hour and it's all these cool things. But everything she has to say is something I can learn from. Right. She does that the correct way. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (37:19)
Like when I teach classes, like I'm very passionate about what I'm teaching. And so I'll get loud. I'll get like all over the place. I'll start speaking really fast. And then people are like, I don't know what you're saying because you're speaking so fast. And I'm like, okay, let me reel it back in slightly and start that over because I was getting really excited about what I was teaching. there's obviously like a huge difference between being loud and. You know, like excited about something and passionate versus just being loud to be loud and overbearing.

Speaker 2 (37:46)
I think being vocal about doing the right thing too and being the right thing, like we can be very, very loud about things we don't want in the culture.

Speaker 1 (37:53)
Absolutely. think that like having a healthy culture is speaking up for things and standing up for yourself in situations that, you know, typically you wouldn't do before. Now, like now it's like we want to create this healthy culture in our workplace and people are actually speaking up about it they're talking about it. And that's great because before that you kind of just, this is the way we do things. Or, that's just that person. They just, they're always cranky like that. And it's like, well, no, because everyone's miserable with, you know,

being in the room with that person or being taught by that person or like, why do we have this huge like turnaround rate? It's like, well, maybe we need to look at our own culture before we, you know, like keep pushing out more employees or students or whatever.

Speaker 2 (38:36)
I did have a question and I want to, with Jayden being the one with the least experience among us, even though he's still a very experienced clinician, great clinician, I want to hear this from him first. Have you ever had someone of a licensure level that's quote unquote lower than yours or a student that taught you something?

Speaker 3 (38:50)
Oh, a hundred percent. one of the things that I've learned. So we talked about progression, like the first episode where like, for me, I was a CNA or I was an EMR, a CNA, an EMT, now I'm nurse. Um, the reason I went through that route is to remind myself that I can learn so much from an EMR even an EMT. You can learn so much from people that.

aren't necessarily below you, but just have a lower licensure level. I've learned different positioning techniques from EMTs. I've learned simple bagging techniques. I've learned so much from EMTs with those that I work with, but I've also learned from CNAs from nursing homes. I've learned from EMRs that are driving ambulances or assisting in the back of the rig. It's one of those things that remaining humble that it is a continual learning experience and

like we touched on a few times, you don't know what you don't know. An EMT might have a ton of experience with this type of patient. I don't see often within the ER, or they might have this opportunity with psych patients or anything like that. Having an open mind to everybody and understanding that, like Nicole said, what was your thought process on that? Or how does that help you or anything like that? Because...

Again, like we've talked about multiple times is this is just an opportunity for me to add it to my tool belt or me to be able to kind of say like, Oh, is this something worth thinking more about or doing more research about or asking more questions about? Um, I think everybody has their own stuff that they're really good at, whether that's, uh, simply IV insertion airways, anything like that. And it's always beneficial to always just ask questions and be able to take that opportunity to learn.

Speaker 2 (40:35)
Yeah, what you got Nicole? Good stuff Jane.

Speaker 1 (40:37)
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I've been taught many things by a lower licensure. I mean, like I've said a thousand times, once you stop learning, probably just need to get out of this field. And you can always learn from someone, whether they're an EMT or a paramedic or a physician or a nurse or like everybody has different ways of doing things and being open to how something is done in that.

It's okay if it's a little bit easier and somebody did it and it's a better way. Like, it's okay to be humble and accept that and be perfectly fine. Like I, yeah, I have absolutely been taught many different things by a lower licensure.

Speaker 2 (41:17)
I had not too long ago, this traumatic arrest call that they called for flight literally just for distance, but the ground crew was doing as good as they can with the situation. And I remember landing and we get there and this paramedic that Nicole and I both have a pretty strong rapport with professionally and is a pretty decent friend to ours as well, was out running this call. And she's this, I think she's been a paramedic for six months, all of, if that, she's what, 21 years old and she rocked that.

better than I can, like, that I could imagine a trauma attending surgeon rocking that traumatic arrest. So much to the point where I took a step back being the flight provider that they called for help and being this guy that has, almost a decade in the game now thinking, damn, I want to be like that from just watching this young professional girl six months into the field. like that, that's, that's the type of impact on culture these, these kids can have as they come into the profession that still

make us better as these quote unquote seasoned clinicians. And I don't want any of them to fall into the trap of waiting for permission to be a leader, right? And go ahead.

Speaker 1 (42:23)
I think that when we have clinicians coming into the field and they are like fantastic and they're rocking it, it goes back to the culture. Like you don't want to take the light out of their eyes. You don't want to like, you know, we eat our young. We don't, we don't want to do that to those clinicians. We want to help and support them and guide them. And we want that to be the culture. We want like everybody to be rock stars. Like I've loved going into the back of an ambulance, like when we fly in and these people have done everything and they're freaking rocking it. It's like,

Well, you just made my job 10 times easier. Like, I'm just gonna let you do this. Like, you're the pro here. And I mean, I love it. think that creating the culture where you're like super supportive of that and like giving them the credit of being like, hey, you you guys like absolutely rock this. And they, I mean, they feel appreciated and it makes them like, you know, wanna work harder and like do it again.

Speaker 2 (43:11)
And where do you think that like threshold is? Cause we talk about the trap of waiting for permission to lead. Like I, it was kind of a big leap of faith, even for us to grab some microphones and put this kind of thing on the internet. Cause I don't know how you, I don't want to speak for you guys, but I don't see myself as this big industry leader or this big like flight nurse that knows all these things. I don't, we just decided we have cool conversations to begin with. We just decided that we'd record them and put them up. But like.

How do we, what do you say to these younger people that might want to do the whole either influencer thing or just move on to an FTO, but don't really want to be an FTO, but how do you give them the courage to be able to view themselves as a leader?

Speaker 1 (43:46)
I mean, I'm kind of in the same boat as you. don't see myself as this, like the best paramedic ever. I don't see myself as like an influencer. I know if you meet me in person, you'll be like, yeah. I didn't see that either. but I think that like, you know, like doing the podcast when we were first tossing the idea around, I mean, I was talking to a couple of the people that I work with on the ground. I'm like thinking about doing this.

I don't really know because it's very like you're putting yourself out there for people to like make fun of you or like use it against you. And so I was like, I don't want people to make fun of me. I don't want people to use this against me. And they're like, no, freaking do it. You're a rock star. Like Cameron, one of our really great friends, he works on the ground. He's fantastic. He was super supportive. He's like, no, you and Carson are rock stars. You're going to do great. Like screw what anybody else says. And I heard that from multiple different people. They're like,

Why do you care what other people think? This is something you want to do. Go out and do it. It's awesome. So being supportive and saying, no, you're a badass. Go do it. It's going to be great. And works out. It works out. If not, we tried. And people get to hear our bloopers and be like, yeah, it makes sense.

Speaker 2 (44:58)
I was so surprised when my coworkers found it because I've met some of these people I really look up to and they always say the hardest thing is getting over your coworkers and knowing that you have a podcast. I was so surprised because I had multiple coworkers now that gave me like the utmost praise. I haven't even listened to it, but super supportive of you, man. Go forth. And like, I didn't think I was going to get that reaction.

Speaker 1 (45:17)
my gosh, yeah, mean, people have been like, like, they'll send me a picture and they're like, listen to your third episode, listen to your podcast on the way to work. And it's like, that makes me feel really great. It's like, Hey, like we're, we're kicking ass. Like we're doing great.

Speaker 2 (45:30)
Jaden, what's that like for you? You're the new grad on the bunch here. What are your thoughts on the whole waiting for permission to lead? You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (45:38)
know I like in the ER I feel like everybody has a chance to be like a leader without knowing it if that makes sense like if you go into a room and you just voice your opinion like hey this looks very similar to my patient I had the other night could this be flash pulmonary or whatever it might be like without even noticing it like bringing that up already like raises alarms for like a physician somebody else like I'll go in room and check it out

Speaker 2 (45:45)
Makes total sense.

Speaker 3 (46:07)
Um, or you're in a room with another new grad and you're like, Oh, know a tip that I might have for doing this. I'd that I've done a few times before. Um, I don't, think it's just an opportunity that everybody can just go anywhere in the ED and just be a leader. And it's not necessarily making super big changes in the ER, but simply by just helping somebody else finding new ways to do something or helping them out in another way.

turning a patient, anything like that. Leaders can also lead from the rear. Like they don't have to be upfront all the time. They can simply just be in a room silently helping or doing those things. And I think each of us take that role within the emergency department or even on a truck or in a helicopter. Like the type of leaders or other people are in the trenches with you. Like they're doing that with you. They're like, yeah, man, this is gonna suck cleaning up this patient, but let's go do it. It's those...

It's those type of things that truly define a culture within an emergency department or within EMS or the military is people that are willing to say like, yeah, I might be the highest ranking person here, but I'm still going to go do this dumb task or go do this because I don't want them to think that I'm just going to sit on my butt and watch them do it when I could easily be doing this with them as well.

Speaker 2 (47:27)
I think it's awesome that you're in that kind of culture. Go ahead, Nicole.

Speaker 1 (47:31)
I think that most places typically require two at minimum years of experience before you get to step into an FTO or a leadership role. But then we go into the informal versus formal. Yeah, I can have this two-year person precepting me or leading me, but I can learn a significant amount informally from this six-month person. So I think that both sides of that is pretty awesome.

Speaker 2 (47:57)
I wanted to talk about, because we got really, really lucky, I think, in my generation, was one of the first that if I couldn't understand what the textbook was saying, or I didn't understand the way my teacher was putting something, I could find it on YouTube, right? Or I can find it on Instagram. And we've watched this sort of blow up into a thing where now there's well-known educators. Like the first one that I knew, I don't even remember her name, but I remember always looking for her, she's finding things well to us.

And then you kind of find that there was like a new age of leadership in the whole social media realm, which has so many cool things and so many not so cool things associated with it. think the pitfall of it, the good thing is that anyone can put their information out there and anyone can be a leader now. It kind of puts the ball in everybody's court. The issue is everybody can be a leader right now. Like anyone could grab a couple of friends and grab a mic and put their thoughts on the internet right, wrong or otherwise, right? And they could either be a positive or a negative influence on the

culture itself. So what are like the risk benefits of just anybody having access to everybody here?

Speaker 1 (48:57)
I think that like podcast reasons, like say your workplace gets a hold of it, even if, even if you don't name your workplace, they're like, I don't really care for that. I think that everybody knowing everything about everyone poses a lot of threats. People can use a lot of things against you or they can be like, um, that's me they're talking about, or, know, like whatever. social media is good and it's, very good and it's very bad. Um, I mean, I could talk all day about why, but I'll let Jayden talk because I'm talking a lot.

Speaker 3 (49:27)
I don't really have a ton of talk about this. I'm very new to like listening to podcasts. Carson was the first person that like led me to our whatever. It's not my friend, but your guys's friend. I just know of him. Mike. Just like listening to him and just getting the opportunity. I think social media, like everyone talks about, can be such a positive experience because you get to meet so many tons of people and get to hear so many different like topics.

that you don't even think about sometimes. You're like, man, I never thought of it that way. Or I never thought about this. And like, you can talk to more of your friends like, hey, have you ever thought about this? Like using this medication for this or whatever that might be. It really challenges your mind to kind of think more outside the box. And of course, obviously there's the negative, which yeah, everybody sees you, knows who you are. And yeah, they might be like, is this about me? And like, well, it can be and it cannot be.

But it's not that I'm pointing you out, it's just from my own experiences. But in my role, I just try to be very like, hey, this is just from my own experience. I don't want to talk down anybody because I'm no better than anyone else here. I am probably the worst ER nurse you'll ever see in your life.

Speaker 2 (50:34)
down.

Speaker 1 (50:34)
I think that like when we first started it, I mean, I told Carson, I'm like, my gosh, I'm embarrassed. Like what if all these people who know me get ahold of this and then they like make fun of me or they use it against me. And it's like, well, they're to make fun of me. They're going to do it anyways with or without the podcast. So might as well just like go for it.

Speaker 2 (50:51)
think that the big concern on my end when it comes to this sort of thing, by the way, I've learned so much from the social media format world. It's not even funny. So huge fan of it. But the big issue comes with anybody that can afford an iPhone can put out a high quality product. And our younger generation of nurses, of paramedics are so impressionable, right? They're also impressionable. So everything they see, it looks like a good product on Instagram as they're swiping. They might take for granted as a

good information that hasn't quite been cited or be a cultural influence that may or may not be for the better. And I think that without calling any particular quote unquote influencer out, that we can think of people that have done great things for our culture, have spread great messages and not to call out nurses, but some of the nursing things that I see by the nursing influencers just make me cringe of embarrassment. Whether it be the jokes of like,

it's July, you we have all these new residents that don't know what they're talking about. Huh. Huh. Or I got, did a nursing dose cause that doctor didn't know what he was talking about. So I literally created a med error and I'm going to broadcast that or it being like, you know, you see these nurses dancing around and I can say this, I am a nurse, these nurses dancing around in a room that doesn't, isn't currently occupied by a patient like.

with wigs singing into pure wigs and like, is that really the kind of thing that we want to be portraying ourselves as? Like, is that really the professional culture that we want to be developing?

Speaker 1 (52:14)
I mean, no, but I do create TikToks because I'm bored. Not like me dancing around a room, like pictures and Carson has helped me with that. But there's a professional way to do it and there's unprofessional like.

How do you think that patient's really gonna like seeing you in the room? Like you see the jokes in the comments all the time saying, well, now I know what my wait time in the ER was 45 minutes or like, now I know why I couldn't get my sandwich or now I know why my blood draw took two hours or something. Like they make jokes like that because people are like, wow, is that what the nurses are doing when it's taking them an hour to come back to talk to me or paramedics or whoever? I mean, you see the jokes like that all the time in the comments.

Speaker 2 (52:56)
Yeah, and you get the people that like, there are these young kids that are watching it, like kids, mean, like the nursing student or the brand new new grad that are watching it and saw, this influencer that I really have a lot of respect for gave a nursing dose. So it's okay that I do that. Or, this guy was talking about a fight that he had with a doctor where he told off the doctor and called the doctor stupid. maybe it's okay that I do that, right? It's a really fine line that you're walking whenever you do these little skits and you put these skits out that are they good for the culture that are around us or they're not? Is this a culture we really want to

Speaker 3 (53:24)
No, I think it goes back to that. From the very beginning, it's about your environment and about your goal and our goal as a podcast or as our goal as educators or anything like that. When you get that long syllabus in the very beginning of your class that says, hey, these are your objectives and the things we're gonna hit here. Like I believe that the goals of this group is not to...

be harmful to the people at all is only to challenge our mindset, be able to kind of find ways to be better clinicians, leaders, whatever that might be, and just have simple conversations. I think that's something that sometimes people forget is social media is such a powerful tool and you can get to anyone that sometimes you forget how much power that really has and not having a guideline for yourself or anything like that can be kind of dangerous because

you just kind of start spewing from the mouth. You don't really have any goal or direction with it. So overall, like I think it can be such a positive experience if you do with it as well. And obviously with any professor, teacher, podcast, anything like that, not everybody is going to enjoy your product. Not everybody's going to enjoy your leadership style. Not everybody's going to enjoy your thoughts and opinions because they have their own thoughts and opinions.

I think that's something that us as leaders, also as clinicians and everything else, you need to understand really early on because I know that everybody's not going to say, yeah, man, I agree with that positioning of a patient or man, was spot on with that. No, I understand that that's perfectly fine. And it's also up to me to have the humility understanding of, hey, if you don't agree with it, that's fine. But can you tell me like, hey,

Do you have a better way of doing it? Because I want to learn. I want to continue to learn. And like Nicole has said thousands of times, is the day that I choose that I don't want to learn anymore, is the day that I shouldn't be in the medical field. Because me closing myself off to...

positive criticism or actually having real conversations with people about how I do things is going to the day where I'm not benefiting a patient anymore. It's a day that I'm withholding the best care that I can give to somebody else.

Speaker 1 (55:34)
it can be used for good or bad. And it's all about like how you approach something, you know, you can joke and laugh on social media and it's fine. But there will always be that one person who will take that and run with it and think that it's like the worst thing ever or, you know, well, the nurses could take time to do this video and they were in the next room and like, I wasn't being taken care of. So I guess like,

Advice with social media is be aware of what you put out and be prepared for people to not agree with what you say and you have to be OK with that.

Speaker 2 (56:08)
and just remember as funny as things are to like everybody's watching. And also remember as the watcher to just kind of remember who these people are that are putting things out and where they came from and what their backgrounds really are. I guess we could move on to the last little call to action bit of this whole thing. So I kind of want to talk about as we wrap this up, what are things people can do this week as they go back into shift to be that leader without even needing a title, even if this is like,

their first week on the job or released on their own.

Speaker 3 (56:36)
I don't know, like I think something that is super easy is just kind of sit with yourself and kind of determine what's your weaknesses, but also your strengths as a clinician and or a servant leader. Knowing your strengths and your weaknesses give you an opportunity to have those conversations with people and say, hey, like I'm poor at this. Can you help me or point me to the person that does know this?

That way I can start learning and challenging myself with that. But also knowing your strengths, that's something you can bring to a room and be like, hey, I can help with that. Or can I help you with this or anything like that? Just sitting with yourself and seeing what's your strengths and weaknesses and how can you improve on those.

Speaker 1 (57:18)
I think that, you know, coming into your workplace, like if there's somebody who is a new hire, say they've been there for six months or something, just like check in and say like, Hey, how are you liking it so far here? Like, anything I can help you with? You know, are you enjoying it here? If they worked somewhere previous, like is this different than where you worked for before? Good or bad? Then you know, like

If you see somebody kind of like struggling with something, don't just turn like the blind eye to it or laugh at them or be like, oh my gosh, they're so dumb. They don't know what they're doing. Like offer to help them. Don't belittle them or treat them like they're less than, but offering to help. And then also being humble in the fact that you don't know everything. Like don't approach something like, I know every single thing. I'm better than you because you're not like nobody's perfect and you can always be better at something. So just having like the respect for that.

and the person in itself will make you a good leader without being an actual leader or having the role assigned to you as a leader.

Speaker 2 (58:20)
As hard as it is, I think the best thing I can do is just try to encourage you to have the courage to maintain the standard for yourself and for those around you. That's the best way you can influence the culture around yourself. So like she said, reaching out to people or be that person, no matter how new you are, just reach up, speak up and take the initiative on a scene or a transport. Speak up for someone quieter than you and just understand

that you might be mentoring and influencing those people around you and you don't even know it. So with the way that you conduct yourself, with the way that you provide your care, all those things factor in and just remember that everyone is watching you even if you don't believe it.

Speaker 1 (59:01)
People are always watching and they're always, they can be looking up to you. Like we've talked about without you even knowing. Being humble in your own skills and abilities and not coming into everything like you are the shit and that you are the top person for every single thing will help you grow tremendously. And you'll have the new hires coming up to you and be like,

Hey, I saw you on this call. Could we go in the training room and work on this away from everyone else or whatever? If somebody approaches you like that, don't say out loud, like, hey, so and so, we're going to go to the training and we're going to do this because this person didn't know what they were doing. Be nice and not shitty to them and help them.

Speaker 2 (59:41)
good. Well, I want everyone to know when I was, I don't think they realized that like we see every like in every comment and every follow and every DM, like every book, everyone that follows me, I see it. Everyone that follows the page that we have the at crit care crossroads. Like I see it. Those comments, those likes, those follows, they mean the absolute world to us and the support that we've gotten from both these massive pages that have this awesome followings and these just individuals that

really have shown support listening to us and interacting with us. Like that means the absolute world. And that's why I do this kind of thing. So thank you to everybody out there. If you're not, please follow our Instagram page at Quick Care Crossroads and please drop likes, comments, DMs, anything you can. Continue the discussion until our next episode.

Speaker 1 (1:00:26)
Feel free to drop some ideas out for episodes and what you'd like to hear. We know we got a couple of comments about wanting medical-related topics. And if you have any other ideas, please message us, comment, whatever it is you feel like doing. Lots of you guys have followed our own personal Instagram accounts, which is great. And we love the support, and we hope to continue growing and continuing with the support.

Speaker 3 (1:00:51)
you guys all have a lovely week.

Speaker 1 (1:00:53)
Happy V-Safe.