Post-truth Museums and Their Post-colonial Directors

In this episode, Hannah Balber talks to German-Iraqi artist Nora Al-Badri about the colonial inscriptions borne by Europe’s cultural heritage. Her work, The Post-truth Museum, reignites seemingly irresolvable debates about restitution. In glitchy deepfakes, the artist puts postcolonial theory in the mouths of former museum directors (rather than institutional discourse), in an attempt to signal where discussions of restitution need to start.

Art Is Not a Thing is produced by Ars Electronica and developed in collaboration with Radio Ö1.

Host: Hannah Balber
Producers: Ana-Maria Carabelea, Christopher Sonnleitner, Marlene Grinner
Editing: Hannah Balber, Ana-Maria Carabelea
Music: Karl Julian Schmidinger

Ars Electronica:
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Nora Al-Badri
The Post-truth Museum

Transcript

Nora al-Badri: You could really sense how hierarchical these places are. In Iraq, there's a saying: The fish rots from the head down. And perhaps that is the case here as well. That's why I decided to focus on the heads of museums, the directors, because they are the ones who set the course, who define what is possible and what's not.  

Ana-Maria Carabelea: Welcome to Art Is Not a Thing, the podcast series about art as a practice of critical inquiry, knowledge production and world-building. My name is Ana Carabelea and together with my colleague Hannah Balber we discuss with artists and researchers whose work questions and reimagines our practices in and of the world. How should museums in the 21st century deal with their colonial past? And what happens when digital technologies intervene in the discourse? In this episode, Hannah discusses these topics with German-Iraqi conceptual media artist Nora Al-Badri. Her video work "The Post-Truth Museum" uses artificial intelligence and deepfake technology to address timely questions within postcolonial debates around the restitution of plundered artefacts in Western museums and institutions. On display are artificially generated videos of the former directors of the British Museum, the Louvre, and the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation. They speak about colonial violence, responsibility, and restitution, making statements that they have never made publicly. For this work, Nora Al-Badri received an Honorary Mention at the Prix Ars Electronica in the category "Artificial Life & Intelligence". Enjoy the conversation. 

Hannah Balber: Could you please describe what "The Post-Truth Museum" is? What do we see and hear in this work? 

Nora: Yes, of course. It is a video work, about 14 minutes long. It is also, for the most part, a deepfake. So, the entire video was AI-generated. And within it, you see many different things. One of the central elements is three elderly white men, directors of major European museums: the British Museum, the Louvre, and the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation here in Berlin, where I am usually based. They are, or I should say, they were directors, because by the time we are speaking today, they are no longer in these positions. And we should definitely talk about this later. These directors voice texts that were written mostly by critical scholars who have been working for years on questions of the future of museums, restitution, historical narratives, and postcolonial theory. So, the three men speak about alternative ways of imagining museums today and in the future.  

The video also shows the museum spaces, filled with visitors. But these images blur and transform: nature enters the museum, animals wander through. And something that was very important to me: What would museum objects themselves say, if they could speak? So, we also see animated masks, AI-generated, fictional masks, that give voice to this perspective. More on that, I think, later.  

Hannah: How did this project come about? What was the starting point? 

Nora: Well, I’ve been working for many, many years on questions related to museums and what I call cultural big data, that is, digitized museum collections and what that means. So, what possibilities they open up, both for artists and also for museums themselves, especially when it comes to their highly contested collections. I’m thinking in particular of the large canonical museums, which tell specific narratives about world cultures and ancient civilizations, narratives that are framed through a Western gaze. And I’ve been concerned with what this could change in terms of power relations. That has been a long-standing focus in my practice. 

But the trigger for this particular project was actually quite specific. I felt that in recent years, everyone had already said everything there is to say about restitution. Unfortunately, not all that much has changed. Yet, I still find this tension extremely interesting as speculative material for artistic work. And I was invited to one of these museums, in fact, the new Humboldt Forum in Berlin, for an internal workshop on art and trauma. And after that workshop, I thought to myself: well, unfortunately, I do need to engage with this topic at least once more. And that’s when this piece came to me. That was the inspiration. 

Hannah: How was this workshop for you? What challenged or inspired you to keep thinking about these issues? 

Nora: To sum it up, what struck me most was the cognitive dissonance within these institutions. On the one hand, they are aware that something in their own practice is wrong. On the other hand, they don’t really know how to do it better. And to be fair, it’s not easy. 

I also felt that many of the museum employees seem trapped within the institution itself. You could really sense how hierarchical these places are. In Iraq, there’s a saying: The fish rots from the head down. And perhaps that is the case here as well. That’s why I decided to focus on the heads of the museums, the directors, because they are the ones who set the course, who define what is possible and what is not. 

Hannah: In The Post-Truth Museum, you work with deepfakes: AI-generated videos that look convincingly real at first glance. And, as you mentioned, we see three prominent museum directors, all of whom are no longer in office for different reasons: Hermann Parzinger of the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation in Berlin, Jean-Luc Martinez of the Louvre in Paris, and Hartwig Fischer of the British Museum in London. In your video, these directors speak about restitution, structural violence, and the ethical inviability of their institutions.

Video excerpt 

It must be said: What we did until now is shameful. We exploited the cultural heritage of the former colonized without regret. It must be said: crimes must be confessed. The world we inhabit can only become a better place if we, the Elites of Europe, declare ourselves guilty. Objects we proudly exhibited were robbed, the ones attached to those objects were often murdered and/or declared beasts. Those who committed the crimes were not seldom declared heroes. 

Hannah: What made you choose these particular individuals to speak, and what statements are you putting in their mouths?  

Nora: Choosing these particular individuals, well, it’s, of course, somewhat arbitrary. But I wanted to focus on three major European institutions, specifically because I’m based here in Europe and can speak about them most effectively. And because they are the representative figures, the public faces of these institutions. If I want to appropriate the identity of the institutions, these are the people to do it with. They are also public figures, which is why I think it’s completely acceptable to use their likenesses in this way. 

As for the texts, I didn’t select them in an overly curated way. What I did focus on was choosing the authors, whom I’ve been in dialogue with for years on these topics. I asked them not only to critique, but also to propose concrete alternatives: What could be done differently? For example, one author suggested that after all objects are returned, the museum could be converted into a shelter for refugees. 

 Video excerpt 

After painstaking deliberation, we have realized that the Humboldt Forum is ethically indefensible. So we have decided that we will restore all the artifacts looted during European colonial rule to their rightful owners. In case where provenance cannot be traced, the artifacts will be given to museums in the global south to circulate amongst them. The space of the Humboldt Forum will be used to house refugees from all over the world in the hope that this will contribute to the decolonization of Germany and Europe. 

Hannah: You combine AI-generated speeches with speaking masks and speculative images of future museum spaces. How do these three layers connect, and what purpose does their combination serve? 

Nora: I think it’s important not only to have people speak, but also the architecture, in a sense. These three sites, the Louvre, the British Museum, and here in Berlin, the Museum Island, are very imperial architectures, that were created a long time ago in a completely different context. I find that this aspect is rarely addressed. When you visit these museums today, they mostly function as tourist attractions, and there’s a kind of “Disneyfication” of the objects. So it was important for me to visually represent the spaces, to blur the boundaries between them, and also, for example, with nature. The texts also address the climate crisis, because these are all issues that cannot be considered independently in today’s world. 

And the masks, of course, represent the core of the project: not just as objects, but as objects that might even have a spirit. They’re called animated objects, and I don’t mean just technically animated. 

Hannah: The use of deepfakes is highly controversial, especially in a political context. How does your artistic use of them differ from manipulative disinformation? And is this deliberate deception in your work also a strategy for making things visible? Or, to put it another way: Can a fake sometimes reveal more truth than an official statement? 

Nora: Yes, exactly, that’s the assumption. I agree that deepfakes can be highly manipulative and dangerous. While they are often used in political contexts, they also appear frequently in private life, which continues to raise problems. That’s why I called this project The Post-Truth Museum. The deepfakes are deliberately not perfectly realistic. You can see many glitches. I didn’t want to create a flawless illusion, that’s not the point. Rather, I wanted to explore what is possible with this technology, and at the same time make the technology itself visible and subject to reflection. 

Ana-Maria: Nora Al-Badri's works are research-based, paradisciplinary and post-colonial. She studied political sciences and is a lecturer at the Eidgenössische Hochschule (ETH) in Zurich. Her practice focuses on the politics and the emancipatory potential of new technologies such as machine intelligence or data sculpting. It is about making existing power relations visible and questioning them. For her work "The Post-Truth Museum," she collaborated with international scientists and authors, whose texts she puts in the mouths of three museum directors in deepfake videos. All three are no longer in office: Hermann Parzinger from the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation retired this year. The other two resigned following scandals. Jean-Luc Martinez, director of the Louvre until 2021, was charged with money laundering and being complicit in organized fraud. He allegedly facilitated the transfer of illegally obtained artworks to the Louvre Abu Dhabi. Hartwig Fischer resigned as director of the British Museum in 2023 after over 1,000 objects were stolen by an employee without being noticed during his tenure. 

Hannah: Let’s now talk about the issue at the heart of this project: the handling of artworks and objects that were looted during the colonial period. Many European museums display art and cultural artifacts taken from conquered territories during colonial times. How would you describe the current approach of many museums to these objects? Could you perhaps give some positive and some negative examples? 

Nora: For positive examples, I’d need to think a bit longer. Overall, not just in Europe, but across the global North, the practice is such that there is now public awareness that this is ethically unacceptable and no longer appropriate for our time. Public pressure has increased tremendously, not only from activists but also from society at large. Of course, there isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. But I know, for example, that in Australia, where the problem is less global and more internal, between the indigenous population and later settlers, some museums have actually transferred ownership, not just of the collections but of the entire museum, and the responsibility, to local indigenous groups. I think that’s a very straightforward approach, and I’ve only read positive things about it. It’s, of course, easier when it’s an internal problem within one country. 

In the global North, by contrast, we mostly see symbolic gestures. For instance, some museums have returned parts of the Benin Bronzes, and many other objects as well. But I consider these gestures largely symbolic. They don’t really address the underlying problem, which, I think, requires questioning the very identity of the museums themselves. What defines them? Naturally, their collections are central to their identity, and the custodians working in the collections also define themselves through them. But to truly confront the issue, they would need to completely rethink this identity, and that’s where progress is still very limited. 

Hannah: For those who might not be familiar with the story of the Benin Bronzes, what exactly happened? 

Nora: It’s always the same story. These objects were taken out of their countries of origin in the colonial period. Sometimes this happened through forms of trade, so not always directly theft. There’s this gray area, or supposed gray area, that people like to point to, but I don’t want to engage in those debates. The fact is, they ended up here through unjust regimes, like almost all other objects. This happened during times when the balance of power between countries was very unequal. So even when it was given, so to speak, “voluntarily,” there was often no real choice. 

Hannah: And today the question is: are they being fully returned, or only partially? 

Nora: I think what’s far more important is the question of authority over interpretation and ownership, the rewriting, and the fact that this has to happen. And that largely doesn’t happen, because it would mean giving up these possessions, even if only symbolically. Even if they were to remain here as loans from the countries of origin. But the ultimate decision should rest with those countries. 

Hannah: So what needs to change? What should happen with these objects? 

Nora: Well, I’m just an artist who has been commenting on and observing this for many years. But I do think that we need a new culture in the large, canonical museums, one that goes beyond invited, comfortable criticism and beyond symbolic gestures. That’s absolutely necessary. And I believe real change will only come through more radical directors, who aren’t so tied to the past. 

Hannah: Do you have a vision of what a museum of the future could look like? 

Nora: I think the museum of the future will not only focus on the objects themselves, but also on the digital realm. In that sense, it could become a more global and accessible museum. I would also hope that it reflects the world more broadly, including its internal structures. For example, why don’t we have a Syrian director at the Pergamon Museum when much of the collection actually comes from Syria or Iraq? 

Hannah: Two of the directors featured in your video, Jean-Luc Martinez and Hartwig Fischer, actually resigned due to major scandals while you were working on The Post-Truth Museum. How did you respond to these events? 

Nora: In a way, reality overtook me, or rather, I think it validated what we were discussing around ethics and museums. These were, by and large, very poor and lazy museum practices. And it’s good that there were consequences. But still, I don’t think there has been a broader debate about internal museum culture since then, at least not that I’m aware of, which I find very unfortunate. 

Hannah: How did it affect your work?  

Nora: Well, in the end, I think it was very enriching for the work, because it highlights the blending of reality and fiction. Some things that we couldn’t have imagined before actually happened. Visitors sometimes ask, when they see the piece: Did this really happen? Was he really arrested? Did they really resign? It’s not always clear what’s real and what isn’t. But no: they didn’t actually say any of the things in the video. Still, the events themselves happened, and for me, that added another layer to the work and made it even more impactful. 

Hannah: What do you hope The Post-Truth Museum will trigger in the discourse on colonial history and the future of museums, both within institutions and with the public? 

Nora: This work was purchased before it was even finished by the Humboldt Forum, because they specifically wanted a piece from me, even though they knew my practice, and even though I had repeatedly told the director there, Mr. Dorgerloh, that he probably wouldn’t like this work. He said, Well, it’s not about whether I personally like it. I replied, Yes, but perhaps you wouldn’t want to show it. And he said, No, we want critical works, we want critical voices. I have to admit, I set it as a sort of goal for myself. A wonderful German artist, Hans Haacke, always said: You have to propose impossible projects, projects that can’t realistically be realized or shown at these venues. I took that as a personal goal. And indeed, while the work is now part of the Humboldt Forum’s collection, it has never been shown there. For me, that is personally a great success and, in a way, a form of response. 

I’m glad, of course, that it is being shown extensively around the world. I wanted to convey the complexity of the topic, not only the technological aspects, but especially the impossibility of presenting these collections in the conventional ways. When I show it in the Global South, it often receives very positive responses. Partly because of the visibility it creates, but also because my practice offers access through digital means and a kind of empowerment. Anyone, anywhere, can engage with it, they don’t have to physically be in the museum to critique or to propose new ideas. Anyone with a computer can access these objects and perhaps change the narrative in that way. 

Hannah: So, technology as empowerment.  

Nora: Absolutely. Unfortunately, only a small part of technology is actually usable in this way, but that part is extremely important. And that’s really what interests me: I always talk about the emancipatory potential of technology. 

Hannah: Wonderful. Thank you so much for this conversation. 

Nora: Thank you. Goodbye. 

Ana-Maria: That’s it for today. Thank you so much for tuning in and hope you enjoyed it! Today’s episode was brought to you by Radio Ö1 and Ars Electronica. Join us next month for a new episode, and in the meantime, follow us or share the show with someone you think might like it.