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Attempting Motherhood
Attempting Motherhood: The Aud Way is a podcast for late diagnosed or late realised ADHD / AuDHD mothers.
It is hosted by Sam, an AuDHD ( autistic + ADHD ) elder millennial mom.
Episodes cover topics pertaining to motherhood, neurodivergence, the combination of those two and how they intersect.
Remember in this wild ride of motherhood, we're all attempting to do our best.
Attempting Motherhood
Late Diagnosed Autistic Author, Clara Tornvall
In today's conversation I'm joined by autistic author, producer, journalist, and mother, Clara Törnvall.
We talk about her experience of her late diagnosis, as well as how it has impacted her work and life in general. We also go into her hilarious new book and the unexpected feedback she's received.
This was such a great conversation where we really highlighted how powerful the knowledge of understanding your neurotype can be. She is brilliant, funny, and creative and I hope you enjoy this episode.
Her first book, "The Autist's: Women on the Spectrum" was released last year. It's part memoir, part deep dive into the cultural history of autism, highly recommended. Her second book "The Autist's Guide to the Galaxy: Navigating the World of Normal People". Releases the 30th of July in Australia.
The Autist's Guide to the Galaxy (Aus pre-order, 30 July release)
Read Clara's hilarious neurodivergent/neurotypical perspective-flip on LetterLife "Being Ordinary is Genetic"
To learn more about Clara, head to her website: www.claratornvall.com
And follow her on Instagram @claratornvall
Want to get in touch? Send us a message!
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AttemptingMotherhood.com
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Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, medical professional, or mental health professional.
I am sharing my lived experience. If you relate to any of the content in these episodes, do your own research and speak to a medical professional if needed.
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Okay friends. My guest today is Clara Tornvall
she is a Swedish author, producer journalist late diagnosed autistic and mother of two.
Her first book, the Autist's women on the spectrum. Was released last year. It's part memoir part. Deep dive into the cultural history of autism, highly recommended. And her second book. The Autist's's guide to the galaxy navigating the world of normal people. Releases the 30th of July in Australia. So you can pre-order it. Now I'll put the link in the show notes. And it's already out in most of Europe, the UK and north America. In our chat. We talk about her experience of her late diagnosis, as well as how it has impacted her work and life in general. And we talk a bit more about that upcoming book. A quick note. I do want to mention, we had a little bit of a hiccup with the audio for the first couple of minutes,
but after that it got sorted out.
So just hang with us because the audio does clear itself up after a few minutes.
All right. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Clara Tornvall. Let's jump in. 📍
I have with me, Clara Tornvall. Thank you so much for taking the time. I am like, right in the thick of your first book that's been released last year in English, so it's The Autist's Women on the spectrum.
It came out in 2021 in Swedish, but luckily your publisher has put it out in English. So more of us can enjoy it. And you also have a book coming up later this year, but we'll talk about that later. As I do often like to start, if you would like to tell us a little bit about your motherhood story, because you do have two children.
So if we could talk a bit about that, and if you knew you were autistic before you had them, or if you figured it out along the way.
Yeah, I have the two kids. , they're 11 and 15, a boy and a girl, and I was diagnosed five years ago, four and a half years ago in 2019 I didn't know that I was autistic when I had my kids they were six and ten years old when I was diagnosed.
And looking back, Now that you know, do you think that maybe your journey was different or were there things that stood out to you that you went, Oh, yes, because I'm autistic. Those things were either more challenging or less challenging or had different sticking points.
That's such a good question.
, I'm not sure. I think If I had known that I was autistic I think the pregnancy part and giving birth probably would have been a little bit easier. Because I would have had some support there. I basically just thought that I was super afraid of giving birth. Which I also was, but part of it, I think.
Part of the fear and the anxiety was connected to my autism that I didn't know of at the time. But for me, I would say motherhood is With EC the first years it's growing increasingly difficult for me at the moment, actually, because I have a, a teenager, a boy who's 15 and a preteen, a girl, she's 11.
But, and I also, I'm a single mom. Every other week because I, I divorced their father 10 years ago. So I basically, raised them on my own every other week. And that's a huge challenge in itself. But to me, I think motherhood is the first years or mothering toddlers. Didn't find it that hard because I would say, being autistic kids are little kids are so easy to read.
They will tell you if they're upset or if they're happy. It's so very clear. And then you try putting them to sleep or you try feeding them. There's always, some way of making them happy. And I also, I love to play. So I thought that those first, preschool years or up to the age of 10 or something.
I didn't struggle so much because I think there. Parts of being autistic that that match parenting or being with children really well. Like I don't mind repeating the same play or the same game or the same, whatever you do over and over again. Kids like that often. And, um, I'm not very often in a hurry.
I always try to keep my mind. I'm, of course, not always succeeding. But my aim is to try to keep the stress level down. And, but I think it's growing increasingly difficult as they grow older. Because now I need some mind reading skills that I don't have,
You don't have to say if you don't want, but are either of your children neurodivergent in any way?
They're not diagnosed, but I think especially the younger one She's very similar to me. I she's not formally diagnosed but I treat her like she is autistic and I think In the future, she will probably have an assessment. Maybe her brother too, but at the moment. They're not diagnosed, but I think it's they're both very, I don't know what word to use really, but I guess high masking or the school would never notice anything. They're the quiet type, always doing their homework, doing really well. Uh, I'm keeping my eyes on them, but I find it a bit difficult to maneuver this because if we're getting an assessment, it will be really difficult to have the school believe that this is something they need.
And then in, in Sweden, you can of course go through, private health care where you don't need the school. But not sure I'm trying to work it out. I'm thinking about it a lot which way to go.
Yeah. And I think too, once we know we are, we consciously or unconsciously, we Look at a lot of things through that lens.
So I'm autistic ADHD, my partner's ADHD. And so just genetically, we know our daughter is there's not a chance she won't be at least ADHD, but then there's things she does that I'm like, I don't know if she's autistic or I don't know if it's I don't know if I'm looking at her through that lens.
Oh, you're lining things up. Okay, maybe she's done that one time. And then I'm, you just jumped to these conclusions. So I think, if there aren't any delays, any concerns, then perhaps sometimes a bad thing. Let's see how things unfold approach. And, with your daughter too, she's at an age where she can tell you how she's feeling and what's going on.
And in our house we just have a very open conversation. My daughter's only three, but even still, we talk about things like being overstimulated, being dysregulated. I'm like very auditory. Sensitive to sounds. And so it'll be like oh, don't do that because that hurts mommy's ears or mommy's going to put the headphones on.
So all of that's just normal talk in our house. And I think when you know you are. You just automatically create this sensory friendly space in your house because you need that. Now you understand you need that. And then by default, the child or the children benefit from that. And once you are having that conversation, I think also helps because then like for my daughter, it's nothing to her if she's overstimulated.
It's something obviously, but if we use this language, It doesn't have to be a big thing that now for me in my mid 30s, I'm having to learn and understand she's just going to have that her whole life. So I'm curious how, since you did find out when your children were going into primary school or in primary school, how you've had these conversations about you being autistic with them.
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I have. And I try doing the same thing you're describing. I'm trying to create a home where we very openly talk about it and where I adapt the home. For, I try to create this. This autism friendly environment for me, but also of course for them. So that's also why I'm struggling with, I don't know if they need diagnosis or not.
And I'm also scared that, maybe I'm, like you said, jumping to conclusions. seeing things everywhere, signs of autism, because I know so much about it. I've done all this research, I've written the books. So I, I'm not sure, I doubt myself sometimes. And then I start thinking maybe I'm just, seeing autism everywhere.
But. Then I also want the formal diagnosis for them because I suffered so much myself growing up without knowing and without any, uh, without my needs being met,
absolutely. But I think too. I like to think we know our kids better than anybody knows them. And like you had said, they are what could be called very highly masking if they are. And we know, especially with girls, you talk about this in your book that we do tend to mask. We learn these social cues so early that we then can go undiagnosed, unknown for so long because we have masked so well, we have played the part.
And if we could talk a bit more about you're in your mid forties and yes. And I wonder what it was like for you growing up. For me, we only had a computer in the house. maybe when I turned 12, but social media only happened after I was in high school.
So for you, the same social media came out when you were an adult. And now we have so much access to information thanks to social media. But when we were growing up, we didn't have that. So I'm curious what it was like for you growing up, not knowing you were autistic, but then also not having the same access to information we have.
Now did you ever share any thoughts with friends or anything of, I think I'm different? I think
I never did. I never did. Which saddens me to think about, but I didn't my way was that I loved to read. I read a lot of books. I loved everything associated with culture and pop culture.
I listened to a lot of music. I watched movies. I. Went to the theater, the opera and what I later realized. That I was doing was that I was studying how to be social through these works of art watching a TV series remembering the lines, the dialogue, trying to to learn how to talk to my friends in school.
And it was like I was studying, but I didn't realize it. I didn't know, because like you said, my parents were also a bit old fashioned. We didn't have a computer. We didn't have a VCR we had a TV, but that was it, I watched the movie Rain Man, and, that was my my belief, my image of an autistic person was that it's a man and he's almost completely non verbal he has these very narrow eyes. Interests that all has to do with science, nature science and and that wasn't me, of course, so I couldn't identify with that.
So I really had, I had no idea at all. When I grew up, you talked about maybe a little bit about boys with ADHD, but they were, always considered to be hyperactive and running around in the classroom. And that wasn't me, so I really, I had no clue. It's like there, there was no language describing.
An autistic girl like me. So it's like suffering from something that didn't exist. So it's it's such a weird, really a weird feeling. And after writing my books, I've had so many people, mostly women but also men elderly people in Sweden, contacting me, telling me their life story, and there are sometimes they're 80, 85, even 90 years old.
And they will write letters to me saying, okay, I realize after reading your book. This is me. I'm autistic. And in the beginning that kind of scared me a little bit because I was like, Whoa, when you only have a few years left of your life, how do you handle this? Maybe it's too much, to find out so late in life.
And because you have to reevaluate. Your entire life or you see it through a different lens. But everyone has been the opposite. Everyone has been telling me no it's still worth it. I'm so happy that I realized this now it's too late for everything, but I'm still so happy.
And that for me has been like the a huge deal, the most amazing reward, uh, from writing the book.
Well, And there's a line in your book, it's in It's in the introduction and I say it's like one of the most profound lines that I've ever read of any book I've ever read, because you say, I've always known that I'm autistic, yet I haven't had a clue.
And it was, it's we know. We're different. We know we're not experiencing things the same way, but as you said, we didn't have the language for it. We didn't have the understanding. We just thought we were these aliens among people. And that's actually how I described it to a friend recently, because she was saying I just I mentioned something about being autistic and she said, I don't understand how people get to be.
Adults and they don't know and I said it's basically like you go through life thinking you're an alien and then suddenly you realize that there are other aliens and you're not the only one experiencing things. This way, and I love that you have, because I'll put it in the intro, but if people don't know you're a journalist, you're on radio you're in the public eye, if you will, in Sweden.
And not only do people know you because of your book, but then they might know you and then get curious and read the book because they've read it. Listen to you on the radio or heard you on TV. And so I love that there are people of all ages, but especially older people contacting you and now saying they realize, because I know for me, how freeing it felt to understand and to know.
And yes, there is that reevaluating and thinking back on your whole life, but I can only imagine being in my eighties. Thinking I was an alien the whole time and then getting this language and realizing like, Oh no, there's other people that have had this life experience. There's other people that understand these things that I feel that I can't quite articulate.
So I love that you've given information to people in that way that can help so many people.
Thank you.
It is so forgiving to, to, to finally realize. And for me, it was completely life changing. You think you're a bad human being.
You're just , you're struggling you're like it's thinking that I'm a bad horse and then realizing, no, I'm just a normal zebra, you know, that's the, you finally, you you go through life thinking you don't fit in, feeling that you don't fit in and all of a sudden you're a normal autistic person and , you find community, you find others, you find a group to fit into finally.
And that has also been huge for me as well. I, it's my experience is is the same as everyone who's diagnosed late in life. But but I think there's, I think you, you go through, I don't know if you recognize this, but I, for me, I've gone through different phases, since I found out I started out, with.
This euphoric, super happy feeling of relief and understanding, like I solved the mystery. I finally found the answer. I've been searching my whole life. I know I'm different. I don't fit in. What's wrong with me? And then I I finally found the answer. I was so happy. And then after a few, I would say maybe Two years in I noticed the feeling changed because then I, I started feeling more sad and a little bit angry as well.
Because then I also had so many readers contacting me, telling me their life stories and I realized what if things could have been different what would my life have been, had been like? And I started feeling angry about all the ways, all the misconceptions, all the the blame I put on myself and others put on me all the countless times where I was told that I was doing something wrong or feeling my feelings weren't valid or it is, it's a, it was a growing pain in me and also an anger.
It was, I guess that became my second book because I wanted to flip the perspective. I was so sick of, being told that I was the deviant one or the one with, the issues or the problems. Because that doesn't change with the diagnosis. You're still the different one even though you're different among others like you.
So that's why I wanted to write the book on neurotypicals to flip the perspective and you know, being able to to be the normal one looking at the other strange ones for a second.
Well, And that's, I shared your article that was on Letter Life and that was one of the things that struck me and actually got me to reach out because your perspective and the way that you flip it, I just thought was so clever and so brilliant.
And because all of the time, everything we see, even if it's well meaning, even if it's Quote unquote, neuroaffirming. It's always as autistics, we're born different. We're, we're always the outsider. We're always the, the,
this is not the right word, but like the spectacle, it's always us being on the outside. And so your perspective, which is why I'm so looking forward to your second book is. It is taking that of but what if we're the normal ones and what if the neurotypicals are, because in your article it was like, you were just born this way being neurotypical and there is nothing wrong with you, you just need to accept it and I was just like, Oh my God, I wish more information was put out like this because it just, one, it was like, Lighthearted, but still insightful, but it gave a real perspective shift that I think most people need to consider and to look at, because.
I'm so glad that you say this because I've had, different reactions to the book that I find really interesting because of course, I know it's funny. I wanted to, I wanted the book to be funny because I think that why not laugh at it?
But some people also think. Uh, Neurotypicals I guess they think it's all, a big irony and just I'm just trying to to be funny throughout, but of course I'm being very serious too, I have I have reason for flipping the perspective and that is to make the reader feel.
Uh, more self confident and to give autistic young people especially a feeling of of strength and confidence. And I also genuinely believe that. More neurotypicals need to, look in the mirror and start questioning their own behavior. And all the things they do that are regarded as perfectly normal.
Only because There are so many more people of them they're, majority. But so if they act weird, we will never call it um, disability because almost everyone is sharing the same weird behavior. For example, lying or. Not saying directly what you mean or, uh, but since it's shared with by so many 90% or the numbers vary.
It's not considered strange or weird at all. And I also had some readers, being a little bit insulted, and I find that so funny because. They're like, Oh, this is you can't say this about all neurotypicals. We're not all the same. You can't just, they're so not used to being the ones described by others that they feel offended.
And they're, they feel like Oh no, this is you're categorizing your and I'm like, yeah, that's the point. This, that's the point of the book is doing just that. And trying to make people see that this is how autistic or neurodivergent people are described all the time. So all
the time. These sweeping generalizations, and that's how we do get, people thinking of quote unquote, stereotypical autism.
I have no interest in trains. I have no interest in, like typical things that people think, but still we are often lumped together in this very broad sweeping generalization. So I am interested in find it funny. Funny is probably not the right word, but that. readers have come back to you and said that because like it's always
neurotypical readers.
But it's,
that's the whole point. It's they've missed the whole almost, like satire of it. They just, they don't grasp that. That's your whole goal.
That's the point of the book is showing that and it's, you don't really have to do much. You just, the only thing you need to do is flip the perspective.
And you don't have to do anything else because then it becomes absurd, by just, changing changing the words, writing neurotypical instead of autistic in a description of someone. And it becomes absurd. And I guess that's why some people. They're being a bit provoked by it, but autistics love it.
, or Neurodivergence. Love it. And I've had a lot of very positive feedback from Neurotypicals as well, of course, but I find it. I find it funny that they're, some of them they're a little bit offended.
That's so interesting. I just, because we're so used to it, we're so used to reading things about us that are just these broad sweeping statements that we can filter it out for ourselves.
Oh, yes. I understand that's quote unquote, typical autistic behavior, but I don't do that. I don't have that trait. I don't fall under that umbrella, but for neurotypicals, it's. It's such a foreign concept to have to
do that's yeah, because I'm never offended when I read something about autistics that's not quite right for me.
I do, like you said, I filter out. I'm like, okay, this is me. This is not me. But I don't, I'm, I guess I'm so used to it that I don't my first feeling is never, Oh my God, this is so sweeping. Maybe if it would be something like. A very old fashioned description, of course I will get offended, but descriptions today very rarely offend me.
I'm used to it,
and if we swing it back, cause you're talking about old fashioned descriptions, your first book, so the Autist's, Women on the Spectrum, I feel a little bit like it was maybe Like your love letter to autistics after deep diving and learning all the things after you discovered that you were autistic because you pull in so many references and you talk about it spans, you reference Emily Dickinson and her poetry and.
There are just so many different areas where you talk about someone being represented that has autism or how autism has changed and evolved through the years. I just, I found it so fascinating because in one, one chapter I was reading the other night, you like, It will sound hard to, for me to trail it together, but in one chapter you were talking about Jesus Christ and Emily Dickinson.
And I just thought,
like, all the things. It's a book from an autistic brain, yeah. It's everything all together all at once. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. And I thank you. I love that you're describing it as a love letter because I, to me, it is, the book is, very, clearly written by an autistic, adult woman, me, who realizes that she is autistic and she wants to know everything about it.
She wants to grasp, the whole picture. And so it's filled with, all kinds of references because that was me in my life at that moment, in the process. That's the kind of book it, it became, but it was, to me, I would say it was, it's so important for me to write the cultural history.
I really wanted to to go back in time and try to reread and rewatch and think about, because When I realized that this has always been a part of the human existence, there have always been autistics and people with a, ADHD. That was fundamental for me, I would say, because I also I come from a family with an autistic parent who of course never knew, and suffered a great deal because of this but I'm also raised in a family where autism is normal without anyone knowing that it's autism or calling it autism.
To me it was so evident. So because people react to sometimes to autism, like it's a new phenomenon, you say, Oh, everyone these days is getting a diagnosis. So , for me, it was super important to show that no, this has always been a part of the human condition. We just called it something else and we didn't have.
Psychiatric evaluations or assessments or diagnosis but it's, it's a way of being that has always been
human. And like you said, having a parent who is autistic but not known, that's also how so many of us get to adulthood without knowing. Because if you are lower support needs and there aren't any, overt things where people think that you need extra support.
There's no, developmental delays. And of course, masking is included all in this scenario that if you do something that's quote unquote weird, but everybody in your family does that, then you don't really see it as being so different. It's maybe just like this idiosyncrasy that your family does versus, okay, no, actually there's several people in my family that neurodivergent.
Yeah. , it's interesting that so many of us, you know, we're now having to hold the torch in a way of getting information out there and also if they're open to it, educating other people in our family and having conversations. Some people, like I said, might be open to it.
Some people might not, and it can add this complexity. To relationships into dynamics that maybe before the diagnosis or before the realization when everything was just status quo and we were all still the same quote unquote it didn't add these yeah these complexities and these change of dynamics that now you're the one talking about being autistic you're the one saying oh maybe you know so and so is also so it adds you It adds a lot.
Yeah. And I would say
a great deal of what I'm doing, what I'm trying to do with the books and talking about it in public is, um, now I wish I had the English word for this because I know what I want to say in Swedish. It's it's about Giving my my parents the what's it called, making it right or this person trying to to give this person the recognition or forgiveness or understanding that they never had, because growing up or being autistic without knowing it is a constant source of conflict.
You're always misunderstood. You're always interpreted as. Having ulterior motives that aren't there people read subtext into the things you're trying to say you struggle trying to communicate to be understood and you do it every day for the whole, your whole life.
Rectification. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
I guess to help your parents rectify from your childhood and your growing up and your experiences that you had and probably that they had also. And now there's this reckoning, of now you all have language for it and now you all have understandings for it.
Yeah, and the movement and the knowledge of autism or the neurodivergent movement it's moving so fast, so that there's such a huge gap sometimes, between the generations. I'm sometimes being told by younger autistics that , Oh, you can't say high functioning.
And I'm like, I know. I don't like the word but give me a better one because, it's constantly evolving. And and I think that's. That's wonderful, but it can be a huge gap between young people growing up. Uh, where neurodivergence is completely normal to them and some, something, uh, like everything else but to their grandparents it's a a mystery or something they've never heard of, or it's, do you know what I mean?
The movement is moving so fast.
So quickly. like you said, Our language is shifting and evolving and well meaning people will sometimes do that. They're wanting everyone to say just the right thing and do just the right thing that then there comes sometimes this trepidation. Of saying anything or doing anything because if you do something wrong, someone's going to call you out and not understand that you're trying to help.
You're trying to educate. You're trying to, but it's but you weren't up on the latest. iteration of this. And you've made a mistake because now, God forbid we ever make a mistake ever.
Yeah. And I also think being part of being autistic is like being clumsy, or being too straightforward or like using the wrong word or making someone mad, but it was, you It's not your intention at all.
So I think we should be a little bit more forgiving because that's also, being a bit clumsy or using words, offending someone without mean, meaning to is kind of part of being autistic as well,
.
I'm curious because obviously you work in the public eye. I'm curious how work has changed for you since your diagnosis or has it changed at all or not at all.
It hasn't changed so much. I was working at the Swedish radio doing shows on classical music. It's a radio channel who only works with and broadcasts classical music.
And that was. Already an autism friendly workplace because it's not the most high level stress job as a journalist. I'm not a news reporter. I'm not doing a new piece every day. I'm listening to music and putting it together, and I'm allowed to to think and to write and to work alone or with just one other person, a producer or a host.
So you often work in twos, in duos which was it suited me well. And I also discovered that I wasn't the only autistic one there, because, there's a connection between being sensitive to sound and loving music and listening to a lot of music and hearing everything, every little nuance there, it already was an autism friendly workplace. But I, when I told my boss, he, I was allowed to not have the camera on during, these huge video meetings with a lot of people, because I, I. It drains all the energy from me, you know, it's it's hard.
I work from home a lot. So it suits me well, but it's still, um, I'm also always struggling, because you communicate differently than others and I have a hard time with the social gatherings and stuff like that.
But so I would say it, it has changed a little, but not very much really my work situation, but now I'm gonna work a little less. Because I want to write another book and, uh, it's been a lot, working a full time job and writing the books too.
What is your next book about?
I want to try to write a novel book. I'm not sure if I can because it's. I think it's going to be really hard but I want to write an Autist'sic main character but a fiction story and I'm going to try and we'll see how it goes. And I'm also working on a book for for kids.
About the age of maybe 10, 15, and it's going to be a life hacks for autistic kids. That's cool. All the little things that you do in your everyday life that makes it a little bit easier. So I'm trying to collect them and put them together. in a book where you can be inspired by others and pick up on a few tips.
That's cool. I love that idea.
What's your best life hack?
I don't know. There's so many. So I really struggle, you could say, because I'm both autistic and ADHD. And sometimes it's this little internal fight. Going on, sometimes one wins, sometimes the other wins. Often not how I would like it to be, but okay. So it feels like this internal fight. I think my biggest hack using my technology. So I, I use. my phone or my Apple watch for reminders for myself all the time because of the poor working memory. And no matter how many times I try and I tell myself, I'll remember it, I'll remember it.
I don't ever remember it. So I always am like, Hey, Siri, blah, blah, blah. And it will set a reminder. And so then I can schedule it. If I'm somewhere where they, I need to fill out a form for my daughter's school, but I'm out and about and I can't do it right then, but I know when I'll be home, I'll say, set a reminder to remind me at whatever time I know we'll be home to do blah, blah, blah.
And on. My phone, obviously it can do that also, but when I'm driving, I don't know if this happens to you, but when I'm driving is when I get like my best ideas. Obviously, not safe to use my phone. So I always have my phone plugged into my car and my car has It's talk control my phone. And so I'll tell it to write a new note in my notes in my phone.
And then I just kind of brain dump, whatever my thought is so that later I can go back. It might be a bit gibberish, but I can still figure out what it was.
Oh, that's great. So you use your technology and you use Siri a lot. Every day. Ah. Because I have this problem that want to use my calendar, but I can't, I forget, I need, I haven't found the routine to, to to do it as much as I would like. And. As much as I would really need but I for me, it's having as much as possible. In my home visible to me, to not keep stuff in hidden in in cupboards or in, behind doors. Because then I forget and I don't use it or so everything from my clothes to like for kids where you have images to guide you through brushing your teeth or all the, those kinds of things.
I try to have. I will put a note on the wall or, just make everything as visible as possible to remember and to simplify, cooking or, everything you have to do at home.
I have a lot, like my commonly used spices are out and I know it's not maybe the most aesthetic thing, but like it is functional.
No, it's not. But it's.
It's a I chose, Practicality the but it's, it looks cluttered, my home. Because everything is, you see everything,
but I think there's still a way to do it. Figure out how to make your home functional for you and it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense to anybody else or someone doesn't like how it looks because it just needs to work for you.
You're so right.
, I'm conscious of time.
I will let you go.
Okay. But I'm so glad that you asked me and this was super fun and enlightening and Thank you so much.
You're welcome. You're welcome. I'm glad that you were able to have the time. And like I said, your first book that's out in English now, The Autist's Women on the Spectrum, I'm enjoying so much, but your second book, I don't want to say I'm more looking forward to, but just because it's written so cleverly and a bit cheeky I'm really looking forward.
Do you know when it comes out in English? Cause I know it's already out in Swedish.
Yeah. Yeah. It's July 30th in Australia.
Perfect.
Thank you again so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And yeah, I look forward to reading your second book coming out and the third and fourth once they, they get thrown down the pipeline.
That's so quiet.
