Navigating ADHD & Motherhood: A Candid Conversation with Dr. Gilly Kahn

This is part 1 of 2.

TW Infertility (Gilly mentions her fertility journey and struggles)
 
Dr. Gilly Kahn and I spoke recently and a big part of our conversation was around  our late in life ADHD diagnosis and motherhood, and how the two are intricately intertwined. 

She was so generous with sharing her story, her ups and downs from adolescence and her journey into motherhood.

Dr. Kahn is a Clinical Psychologist, ADHD educator and advocate (and ADHDer), as well as author and currently writing her first book "Allow Me to Interrupt" (due out 2026).

Books mentioned:
"Dopamine Nation" by Dr. Anna Lembke
"The Female Brain" by Dr. Louann Brizendine

More from Dr Gilly Kahn
https://www.drgillykahn.com/
IG: @DrGillyKahn

Thank you for listening!

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I am sharing my lived experience. If you relate to any of the content in these episodes, do your own research and speak to a medical professional if needed.
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Transcript

 My guest today is Dr. Gilly Kahn. She is a clinical psychologist and author and ADHD, educator and advocate. And of course she has ADHD herself as well as being a mother. She offers individual and group therapy in the Atlanta area. So if you're in the area, Hit her up. And she is also in the middle of writing her first book. 

So appropriately named for an ADHD book called. Allow me to interrupt.  I have split this interview into two parts because as often our conversations do. They went completely off script, but there were kind of two main topics that we covered. So in this first one, we're going to talk more about her motherhood story discovering she had ADHD. 

And if we could. What we would change about the diagnosis process. Listen to this and then keep looking out for the second part of this interview. That's going to come in a couple of weeks. I hope you enjoy this chat with Dr Gilly Kahn. 

I think a lot of people probably know you from social media. If you could talk a little bit about like,  how you like to use your platform, because you're very clear in your bio that like social media is not therapy, but as a therapist, so you are neurodivergent and you're a therapist.  Can we get some ideas from you of how to look for a neuroaffirming  therapist? Because I think a lot of people don't even know What to look for and there's marketing  hot words that people just use on their website when really in practice that's not how they are.

Yeah. Honestly it's, I'm sure, like it's hard to know because like you just said, people will say that they treat ADHD or, like they just put stuff on there because they think they do. And then they don't actually really know what they're doing and they're not doing it like to ruin people's lives.

They're doing it.  It's coming from a good place. They think they know what they're doing, especially with OCD. People think they know and they just don't. And they do a lot of damage there. I think the best thing to do is to go through professional organizations, look at like the ADDitude

website or look at Chad or look at parent to parent or just asking around. And I also think  parents have a, like a really good Spidey sense,  generally, like they can tell. I think, one kind of like quick trick that I give families also is I'll tell them to ask the clinician what book recommendations do you have?

Or yeah, or if you were to assess for ADHD or autism, like in my child, like, how would you do that? Just see like how much knowledge they actually have.  Yeah. Yeah. And that's it. Or ask them what types of therapy, do you recommend? And then. If they say something that's completely like left field, then they don't know what they're doing.

 Yes, the book one's a good one because you would think if that's something that they're dealing with all the time, they would have a handful at least that they could rattle off. This one's good. This one's good. That's a good tip. We've just jumped right in and sorry,  but if we could pull it back and start with hearing a bit more about your motherhood story, if you're okay talking about it and discovering your neurodivergent.

I don't know if the chicken or the egg came first, but If you can  talk a bit more about that.  Yeah. I think like most people I guess it's the egg like most women, right? Because. Only recently are people starting to really understand neuro diversity and females. But I'm really happy that you're asking these questions because I think they're very taboo, a lot of moms really need each other and they need support and I can really see how they would benefit from hearing other mom's stories because, Social media just makes motherhood look so glorified, and it is not.

No. No, it is not.  Yeah, from the very beginning, just even from the fertility journey, you think Oh, it's so beautiful and so celebratory, right? And if you get pregnant right away good for you. But for most of us, it doesn't happen like that. And yeah, so that's the experience that I had.

And I'm very impatient too.  And I'm very, yeah, exactly. And I'm very planned. And I feel like that's just such a stereotype, for someone with ADHD who has a PhD, like, it's I like don't want to wait, and also I need to be the best.  

And do everything perfectly and do everything to the max and be right. 

I relate. Haha. 

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of women can relate and yeah, and but anyway, yeah, so  I have PCOS, which makes it hard to get pregnant, and I didn't know I had PCOS,  because I think a lot of doctors don't really check for it, unless you have, Fertility issues, and so it was very confusing to me because I was on birth control for a long time and I remember that, like, this is a motherhood podcast, so whatever.

I had very Oh, yeah. Just do not 

do not feel the need to censor or leave anything 

out. Yeah. Yeah. Leave it all in there. And plus once you're a mom nothing is gross anymore, 

no. I was talking about poop yesterday with a friend. Not my own, my child's. But still, 

yeah, and you might even talk about your own like after pregnancy or whatever their health issues and anyway but yeah, so moving on from poop. Yeah, so I was just I was saying I had very painful, like menstrual periods. And that is common, for people with hormonal irregularities.

And the slew of symptoms that I have, ADHD and then there's like depression and anything hormonal, like I just learned all of this stuff just goes hand in hand, migraine. And so in the beginning,  I don't know, I feel like. A lot of people, maybe other people could relate to this, but it's like I had a mental plan of what I wanted my life to be.

And and I thought I would right away from undergrad. Go into my Ph. D. Program and that way I could be this age and in my twenties when I come out and then I would have a child right when I graduated. I had this whole storyline at my head. And of course, we plan and God laughs. And I didn't get in to the doctoral program right away and I ended up doing a masters.

First, which delayed me two years  and while I was in the middle of my clinical PhD program, which I attended after the master's program I was getting close to the age where like I wanted ideally to get pregnant.  And so I was sitting with my husband. And you were, 

yeah, you were already married at this point.

Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah, I got married  pretty young 24  I've been with my husband since I was 17.  We've been together a long time and I just  had my life you laid out the way that I thought it should be. And I remember when I was an undergrad and I saw like my one psychology professor and I was like, wow, she's a professor and she does research and she sees clients and she has kids.

I want to be her.  She does everything. And.  So when things don't go the way you want them to, it's a little bit disappointing. And so I had to pivot. And so my husband and I are sitting, we're married already, and we're watching a TV show and on the show, there's a baby. And I just turned to him and I said, let's not wait until the end of graduate school.

Let's just do it.  And he said, Okay. 

And so that's when, I started, we started planning for parenthood  and, for me at least, like I, have to do all the research that I can and.  It's a very different experience than what you would think it is. It's not Oh, yeah, just get romantic. And then it happens  now.

And yeah, it was hard. It took me like, in the end, like six months.  But that's because I, I  was hustling, I don't want to waste any time, but I ended up taking fertility medication and that helped me.  

Interesting that you got a doctor to give it to, because so many fertility doctors are like, you have to try quote unquote naturally for 12 months without success before we'll do this.

No, I would  

throw something at them. Okay. Are you fucking kidding me? That's not fair. With our bodies. Yeah. It's we've got a ticking clock here and then, it's emotionally draining, six months of depression. And I can only imagine, for someone, cause I have friends, who tried for a year.

That's inhumane. It angers me to even think about that.   Did you know at that point you had PCOS?   Yeah, so I found out because I was checking. I was checking for ovulation. I did ovulation tests like obsessively. And I just, I could tell, I was like, I'm going 40 days. I don't have this typical cycle that is, in the folklore on the logs and pages I was like, this is not something's wrong here.

And so I was on top of it. And  yeah, and I was pushing, I think with a lot of things.  Like the squeaky wheel gets the grease, if you're 

it's true though  And especially if it's something that you know, you like a hundred percent want you're going after you're doing all the things Within your power to try and achieve that were you on birth control and two things can be true. Were you on birth control for Preventative measures or because you had painful periods both. Yeah, okay, so  Yep, it was  

and birth controls 

commonly used to treat PCOS. So it may have been helping that unknowingly. And then when you came off to try and start to get pregnant, things could have started to go a bit more haywire. 

Exactly. Yeah. And I actually, now that I'm mid thirties, I've been reading about hormone replacement therapy. And so I. Ask my doctor about it. And she said, it's basically taking birth control. So she like raised my estrogen dose on my birth control pill. And she said, let's see if that helps. And she said, it's all like experimentation.

It's like psychotropic medication. She's you don't know what's going to help you. You just try and see. But Yeah, there's definitely a big hormonal component and women with PCOS are more likely to be neurodivergent and to have all of these co-occurring conditions, but it's not something that doctors just like readily assessed for, which is very  surprising and unfortunate. 

Yeah, and so many doctors don't even really understand if you don't have  I guess what sometimes are more typical presentation so yes painful periods, but also  There can be a component of insulin resistance that goes along with it. There can be a component of high testosterone So all these things play a factor, but so many doctors don't actually Understand it.

How did you feel when you were pregnant? Like as far as amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. 

And I said that to her because she was like maybe it's not that you need  estrogen. Maybe it's that you need blah, blah, blah. And I was like, so why is it that when I was pregnant, I felt amazing. Because when you're pregnant, so she made a good point.

She said, maybe it's because your hormones were not fluctuating.  And they were stable. And  that's interesting because migraines, like when you get a migraine attack, it's because of like fluctuations.  The changes in just like the, it's a break in homeostasis.  So if you're changing your sleep pattern or you're not eating the way that you normally eat in addition to fluctuating hormones,  those could all 

be migraine triggers. 

And even having more stress, which then triggers more cortisol, which again is another hormonal fluctuation. I just, it's funny, I just had this conversation with my GP, my primary care doctor, because  so I've just turned 37 and I am like at the very beginning of  perimenopause.  And  she said, through like me self reporting my symptoms, she was, I think you actually have PMDD.

And I'm like, okay, I see how that kind of tracks, but it's something then that has started re like in the last four or five months, I've not had  that symptomology, for the last 15 years. And so many women that I know that have PMDD, they've had it like from it's something you know about.

Yeah. Yeah. Versus for me, I'm like, I think it's more a symptom of.  Perimenopause. And she was saying my best suggestion would be because she goes, you're extra sensitive to the hormonal fluctuations that happen through your cycle. And so she said, my suggestion would be to get rid of ovulation so that you, that's what she said to me.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. She's so then you don't have the same fluctuation. It's just more stable through the month. And I'm like, Interesting. Yes. I didn't even know that. I'll go do my research now.  

Yes. Like I didn't know about that. Did you?  I knew about the hormonal fluctuations and like the. No, like suppressing your ovaries.

I didn't even know that. Oh yeah. I knew birth control did that.  

And that's because when you are on hormonal birth control, when you have a bleed, some people call it a sympathetic bleed. So it's not actually like your uterine lining shedding, like it is when you're  I don't know what you'd call it.

Not on birth control, au naturel. It's just your body going through the motions, more or less. And with the birth control she wanted to put me on, she said 50 percent of women get to the point where they don't bleed at all, because your body's just oh, okay, cool, this is what we're doing.

Yeah. 

It's interesting that I think more doctors are moving towards  that type of treatment for us that are like that. We're at the very.  entry stage of perimenopause. We're not, and she has said like your hormones are starting to go haywire, but they're not so much as they will be in like five years when she would be more happy to put me on HRT.

And HRT, like your doctor said, it is very similar to birth control, but it's  slightly more fine tuned because often what they do is individualize the estrogen or the the  progesterone, testosterone, and they can.  tweak it a bit more than just like a combined pill or a progesterone only pill.  It's a bit more like fine tuning because like your doctor said, everyone responds differently. 

We could have the same dose and have like totally different.  Results. 

Yeah. Women are fun stuff. 

Oh, God.  The other 

guys have it so easy. They have it so easy.  Yeah. They'll get mad if they hear us say that, though. No. Of course. Everyone has stuff. 

You have two children. You had your first.

And then how long until you had your, did you have fertility issues or did you straight away go into. Yep. I did the same thing. 

Yeah. Okay. Yep. So the first time it was more stressful, I think for a lot of people it's more stressful because you're not really sure what to expect, especially if it's not going the way it does for most people, because on average, like it takes three tries.

to get pregnant. And so when it takes longer than that, you're just like, okay, just one more time. And then when your periods are irregular then it's just, it's stressful because you can't control your body. And yeah, but I felt it quit.  For the second time around  and and I got pregnant in exactly the same way.

It was like the first time I took the medication, I didn't get pregnant with both kids. The second time, I think it's like my body like adapted. And then I did.  So the second time was much easier. And the other thing is every kid is different. So my, my daughter  definitely gave me a run  for my money, how to say it.

But she, she was very alert. I highly suspect she has ADHD. But yeah, my son is, oh  my God, so sweet. Like with her, it was like the second she came out, it was like, it's a party, with him he was asleep on my chest.  It's so funny how different kids can be from each other. Oh, 

wildly.

 Yes. Yes. I just have one. We are only having one. And part of that is because my daughter is, from the sounds of it, very much like yours. And I'm like, I don't know how I'd do two of this. If potentially the other one came out exactly the same. I was very scared. Oh my God. Yeah. My daughter was like.  And now I understand it's all totally normal, so if there's pregnant ladies listening if your child doesn't want to be put down, that is normal, but that was my daughter.

I literally would not put like, she was never not touching me. We were, I was holding her, she was in a carrier, even sleeping, we bed shared, we still bed share, she's three, but she, we had the bassinet that goes by your bed that has the zip down side. So she was like an arm length away. That was not close enough.

She had to be literally touching my body  and even still, like when she's in bed with us, she always has a hand on me or foot on me or something. And  I just,  that was a big part of the consideration. I was like, if I have another one like this and have a toddler, I don't know how I would manage.

And she she contact napped, she all of it, and is at incredibly low sleep needs.  

Here's what I will say. From my experience, at least,  and it depends, you might get lucky the second time around, but  my daughter at least is, she loves attention. And I would guess like any kid with ADHD loves attention, she talks all the time.

Shut up. And she doesn't. And when I work with parents. I really empathize with them. I think it's really helped me and my work with parents because their kids also flip out if they don't answer right away and they're just like, I'm tired, and I get it. But also I think it has helped me like being a psychologist and  an understanding, but also learning how to navigate that.

And  what I found is  He's a very good distraction for her. They entertain each other. Yes. The onus is off of me, because like she has someone else to boss around. 

She's assertive. She's assertive.  Half the time I have to tell her like, stop.  Boston him around it's I think  it's good, to have a little companion and it's good. I think for parents to, especially as they get older, they become more independent. They entertain each other in the playroom. 

So I understand like where your fear is coming from, and I felt the same way. I was terrified. Honestly, I didn't, it was like, while I was pregnant, I was terrified of delivering my son because I didn't know what to expect. And I really did not want to experience the same first three months. That I experienced with my daughter and actually those three months sent me to therapy.

Like I was so sleep deprived. The other thing is I found doctors put so much pressure on moms to breastfeed. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so I, I breastfed my daughter for the first three months and then I stopped for the second one. I said, I'm not breastfeeding.

And I had so many people like professionals like you really should breastfeed. And I was like, I'm not breastfeeding.  And I think, I understand. Why they're encouraging women to breastfeed, but also they need to stop and leave them alone. Because  I think  a lot of professionals underestimate the insightfulness that moms have. 

You know what you can handle.  

I under like you said, I understand why they do it because if we just look at the child and the outcome of the baby,  Yes. They say, quote unquote, breast is best. What that completely disregards is the mother's experience.  So of course But even 

if we're thinking about the child, right?

Think about the environment. That's what I'm saying. If we're just looking at 

nutrition  or how much sustenance,  okay, then fine. But when you're disregarding the mother's experience, it's disregarding How that flows on, like you said, to the whole family, the mother is struggling. If the mother, then if that creates things like  depression or overwhelm or just increased stress, the child by default gets that, which creates a subpar environment versus if the mom was just. 

Allowed quote unquote by society, by doctors and by pressure to like, just give them a bottle  and everything will be okay. And then it's like this, no pressure. Yeah. Yeah. I understand yes, let's educate and let's because some people literally just don't  understand. I do think.  When we were in more of a village type scenario, you did have aunties and mothers and older sisters showing you how to breastfeed versus like when I came to think about it.

Yeah.  Maybe I saw a couple of people, just like whip it out and do it, but I didn't see anyone.  

I love this podcast.  I didn't see 

anyone struggle. I didn't see anyone. And thank God knock on wood. I had an easy. Breastfeeding experience because I knew in myself if it was a struggle, I would not have persevered and now looking back with all of everything else that early motherhood did to me,  no way.

And my daughter had jaundice, so she ended up getting formula. Yeah. So she ended up getting formula because she had to go back in the hospital with light therapy. Yeah. And while I went through my whole pregnancy saying, I'm going to try and breastfeed, but fed his best and whatever, when I had to accept that they were in the hospital giving my baby formula because I hadn't had my full, I like had a real,  I'm failing her, I'm not doing the right thing.

And I had to like almost like, sat myself out of it and be like no. No. She needs to get. Because if people don't know, with Jaundice,  way to quote unquote get them over it is to flush their system by almost overfeeding them.  Yeah. To get the Billy Rubin out of their system.

Yes.  And so I was still allowed to go in and breastfeed her, but they were topping her up and supplementing her with  formula. And actually we ended up coming home  and we kept giving her one bottle a day. So I breastfed her on demand the rest of the time, and that one bottle was a chance also for me to have a break.

Break, yeah. Because she was a little boob monster and she and when the jaundice, 

like she always fell asleep, but then if she was not on me, then she was not asleep.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like we're a slave and the other thing is, I remember she was very particular about how she wanted to sleep.

I would have her in they have all these devices now, like whatever you can do to get your child to fall asleep. So it was like, we called it the marshmallow. I forgot what it is, but it was like this. pillow thing that you zip them up in and it's like a straitjacket kind of that holds you like this.

Oh, yeah.  You know what I'm talking about? Yeah.  I don't know. Anyway, so I would have her in that and then it's like your kid kind of dictates, this is how I'm going to fall asleep. And you are so tired as a mom. You're just like, I will do whatever it takes. And then, it's okay. 

And you try like very carefully to lower them into the crib. And like the second their head touches the mattress, it's boom.  Yeah. 

And we tried all the tricks, like our midwife told us get a heat pad and put it on the, bassinet before you put her down so that it's warm, so it's not such a shock.

We tried everything and it ended up the kid just would not be put down, would not be  touching me for anything.  None of the tricks worked. And I think some kids, and like our daughter, She's not been formally diagnosed, she's three, but we know she's ADHD because I'm ADHD, my partner's ADHD, and statistically, genetically, she's just and it's,  like you're describing your daughter, it is very obvious.  Yeah. And I had a friend recently, she's thinking, she's like wondering, cause both her and her husband now are diagnosed, and one of their children, she's I don't know, I don't think you can diagnose a baby. And I was like no, no. Now knowing what I know, looking at my daughter,  I could have told you at six months old when she's like, Having three hours a day less than her peers sleep. 

She's there's something  she's special.  

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And the sad thing is that I don't know. I think when you specialize in ADHD. And you're a woman, and I'm saying that because it's so misunderstood and girls, like I took my daughter to her six year old appointment with her pediatrician.

And I, I figured I would wait until six because I'm a psychologist. I've done testing. And I know that under six it's debatable or, people tend to be conservative and they're just like they're little. But once they hit six, then you can more seriously get like an ADHD diagnosis. 

And so I brought it up to him and I said I'm thinking about maybe starting with medication. And he was like is she doing well at school? And I was like, she's 

six. What do you want? Yeah, she can do a 

finger painting. Like I was like, yes, but also her school is pretty low demand. And I picked that school on purpose. 

For that reason, so she could be a happy person and she's six. Yeah.  And also, and this is what makes me upset, because to get a diagnosis of ADHD, it needs to be present in more than one setting. The symptoms need to be present in more than one setting. And what psychologists interpret that as is school and home.

They don't think with friends, with family members. They think school and home. But the difference is very huge between school and home. Because at school there's a lot of structure. If you have a good teacher, right? There's a reward system. Like it's built in success.  for a child with ADHD, especially a girl who's way more controlled than a boy.

If I'm asked, are they doing well at school as a diagnostic question? That's going to make me uncomfortable. But anyway, yeah, he was like, go get some testing. And I was like,  I don't, I'm not going to drop 5, 000 like for a psychologist to tell me what I already know, like I specialize in ADHD.

I have ADHD, yeah. So it's really tough. I think a lot of primary care doctors, pediatricians, I experienced it myself. Like when I went to, Seek out like my diagnosis. I went to a psychiatrist. Basically, the first question was, we're like, Oh, it's interesting that you have ADHD because you have a PhD.

And this is a psychiatrist, not a pediatrician. And and so just to build on that too, if any other, woman with ADHD is listening to this like it's like you wait so long to finally  fix it. To do something about it. So when you finally build up the courage to go to someone and basically from our perspective, it's Hey, I'm deficient. 

I need help in that moment. It feels like that. Once you grow into the diagnosis, you're just like, Oh, yeah, I'm all about this. I love this. But like in the beginning, you feel vulnerable. And so he like, in the end, wrote me a script for Ritalin. That's the first thing I tried.  And he forgot to write the date.

On the script and I don't know, like it's like this is my first experience getting a stimulant prescription So I go to the pharmacy and i'm just like thank freaking god I'm finally gonna do something about this because I have struggled for so many years trying to sit still and concentrate And I am done.

So I like and it it's like i've got the golden ticket and then he says no, i'm, sorry It doesn't have the date on it  

Did you go out to the parking lot and scribble the date on it and be like, here you go? No. 

Because I'm a psychologist  and I'm an ethical person and I'm just like, and I'm new to this, so  I, first of all,  go home,  put my hands on the counter and scream.  And then I get back in the car and haul my  back 45 minutes  to the doctor's office  for him to add the date. 

 Yeah. And most people probably know this, but to clarify, you're a psychologist, so you don't deal with medication. So that also would not have been something that you're like, yep, let me make sure all the boxes are ticked.

Oh, yeah. Blah, blah, blah. Like that is outside of your scope, outside of your 

wheelhouse. Yeah. A detail like that. No, I wouldn't know. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. And I think to 

so many women, I don't know about you, but so many women, this is not their first diagnosis. Most of us have been diagnosed with something else or anxiety.

Exactly. More common than not depression, anxiety, sometimes BPD, sometimes OCD, depending, but all of those are like  symptoms of the ADHD  instead of being the actual thing.  So also when you get to that point, I find, especially when it's a later in life diagnosis.  That you've done all the research, and you're basically just going, but still what happens  Because with me, I had done all the research, it clicked, I waited  maybe close to a year before I decided to get a formal diagnosis because I wanted to try medication.

And my partner had said to me, because of course it was already in my mind, he's like, what if he tells you don't have ADHD? And I was like, no, I do. I know I do. But then the week, yeah, exactly. I would like,  yeah, the week before I was like, Oh my God, what if he tells me I'm just crazy?

What if he tells me it's  BPD? What if he's like all these other things? Then I'm like no. And I, as we do, do all the research, I found someone who specializes in late diagnosis, ADHD, who's familiar with females, like all these things. So I was like, I have the best chance. 

You got lucky. 

That's so rare. 

Oh, absolutely. And I, so I see someone not in my area because no one in my area  does. And that is, I think one tip I guess I have for people is  take to the resources that you have. So I went on like a local mom's Facebook group and was like, Hey, who's recently been diagnosed and is there anyone you can recommend?

And I got three or four recommendations and talking openly with my like  people around me. That's how I found this person is. So I teach mobility and yoga and  one of my students daughters got a diagnosis at 21 and she was like this guy was really fantastic and it was when I was doing all that research and so I think  People are really afraid to, quote unquote, self diagnose, but if you have people you're comfortable talking with, and on Facebook groups, you can post anonymously. 

Utilizing the resources we have to at least get a starting point, because if you just Google, ADHD assessment, my area,  who knows what you're going to get. 

Yeah, especially for autism, my God, yeah it's absurd, like some of the evaluations that I'll look at and I'm just like,  first of all, the ones who don't even who will diagnose ADHD and they didn't even test for autism.

That's. Like mind boggling to me because there's such a high co occurrence,  but also it's it's sometimes it's so it's like clear as day and I'm just like, why don't you even mention it? Like in a sentence in the eval I think maybe they just aren't trained in the ADOS, right? And it'll say future providers should also assess for potential autism spectrum disorder, something right? 

 So you had your kids when you figured out you were ADHD.

Yeah. 

No, No, not yet. Yeah. So  it was like this progressive.  Enlightenment, I guess you could call it. Since I, I can remember even like thinking back. So I definitely had depression when I was a teen. And that's when I started writing. Like I loved writing when I was in middle school, 14 and in high school.

Have you ever looked 

back at them?  

Oh yeah. They're really bad.  Yeah. Some of them are so bad that I'm just like, I can't even share these. Not bad. Like the writing is good. I was a good writer, but they're very depressing.  

I was so same. I, a while ago found some of my 13, 14 year old writings and I was like, Oh, 

this is like a very dark child.

Yes. And that just shows, honestly, like how hard adolescence is. Right? For a kid with ADHD, one. For a kid struggling with depression and anxiety, two. But then for a teen, period. It's just a really hard time.  So you had 

this kind of evolving  understanding of yourself that kind of culminated in going I think I have ADHD.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I was a teen, I noticed that it's really hard for me to fall asleep at night. My mind is constantly on and I also realized that,  and we used to joke about it, but it wasn't funny, like behind closed doors, that I would study twice as much as my friend who would study like the night before and she would get a higher grade than me. 

And she would she'd be like, Oh, Gilly, what'd you get? Oh, I got a 98. I won again. And I would feel like shit. And I'm like, I was just Yeah. Cause you're like, I'm working my ass off and still not.  Yeah. And still not getting what I think I deserve and yeah. And especially, I don't know, with writing too, like I, that's why I can't do a lot of report writing because I was up when I was testing, I did a postdoc where I was only testing and I was up at 2, 3 AM just writing reports. 

I didn't really sleep. Yeah, but it was hard for me to fall asleep at night. I was thinking like is it generalized anxiety disorder? Because what I took AP psych, I started learning about all the different diagnoses and that was the only one that really talked about  persistent thinking, outside of OCD and they were not intrusive thoughts.

They were, Just constant, thoughts and, but I thought I'm not a very worried human being though.  It's more like I was planning, it was like, okay, tomorrow I have to do this and then this. And, and I always a recurring, I'm thinking about this now and it's funny, but also not recurring nightmare that I've had.

Even now, since I was a kid is that I lost something. Lost something. My pencil case. I left my backpack behind.   That's like my biggest fear.  

 Something that's necessary and needed. Yes. And that have the moment that you need it. 

Yeah. Yeah.  Yeah. So it's just like all these hints came up and I, which, 

sorry,  I'm curious if kind of because of that, are you like an over prepare or over packer?

Are you someone who has like a huge bag full of everything? Yeah. Okay. Oh, I was just writing that in my book for one of my chapters. Actually, I was just editing a chapter earlier today. And I added I was the girl who always had a huge backpack that people would make comments about. They used to say you're going to break your back.

That's really bad for your back, but I would forget things. If I didn't take everything, I wouldn't have something that I needed. And so then I became the girl who you could recognize because you heard the rolling wheels  through the halls.  I got a rollie bag, and that was my solution, and it's still the same.

Thank God now I have an office, where I could just  have duplicates of things. Yeah. But it's so obvious and I think it was just the fact that it was so misunderstood. And even as a graduate student, I would think I don't fit these criteria, these don't account for like bad driving, bad sense of directions, like stupid, stupid spending or difficult, difficulty sleeping.

 I was like, I'm not a space cadet. 

I did want to ask your tips. If someone like us, suspects that their ADHD what's your tips for how to go about rolling that process? 

Okay, I would say go with your gut and  do your own research looking at reputable  resources. So look at Chad, ADDitude , I blog for ADDitude magazine. But also the reason I submitted an application for that is because their resources are superb, like they're understandable and they cover everything and it's very up to date.

Yeah. And so look there.  The other thing I would recommend is Google Scholar  because it's true articles on Google Scholar peer reviewed. And so whatever there is not going to be nonsense. So yeah, if you want to do your own research, I would go that route. Maybe also Google Scholar and see which professionals are publishing. 

In the area of ADHD, and then you can look them up and look for books. For example, you're obviously going to come across Russell Barkley or or Kathleen Nadeau or  any other kind of big name in the field.  And then if you look them up, you'll see that they published books on ADHD, see how many reviews they've had, just  Google them.

 The other thing I would recommend too is to shop around for different providers, just like you did, you asked people in your network for recommendations.  And to also consider. All the different factors, ask yourself, is this for you? Or is it for your kid? What are you trying to get out of the diagnosis?

If it's accommodations, yes, you should do testing. If it's just medication, you may not need to do testing.  You could just go to a psychiatrist and. Ask them if not give me medication, but tell them what your symptoms are and they could do like a history and prescribed medication without you having to go through the process of doing testing.

You don't have to do testing, at least you don't have to do that here.  Yeah. I think it's a bit different. It's different everywhere, but  I've heard so many different, experiences. So there are some places.  In the states where I know of primary care doctors prescribing stimulant medication.

Yes, they do. I, here in Australia, that's not allowed. Primary care can refer you on to a psychiatrist, and what happens then is the psychiatrist would do the, basically, assessment. And what that looks like, yeah, what that looks like is up to, some of them it's like several appointments, some of them it's, for mine was quite, I don't want to say simple because that sounds like he just doles it out, but he has you do a lot of work beforehand.

So there was like the Wender Utah scale, there was testimony from people who I got my mom and my brother to write testimony. And then there's a couple  Yeah, I wanted no questions, but yeah, so here the psychiatrist can do it, they prescribe medication and then typically what happens once you find a dosage that works for you, they can refer back to your primary care and then you only have to see your psychiatrist like once every 12 months.

In the states, I know it depends on it's so hard because it depends on insurance, it depends on the state,  but like you're saying, there might be an option where you don't have to go and pay the thousands of dollars. For assessment time. Yeah, exactly. And the stress and all the rest of it. Yeah.

I do think, I think people need to really question like you said, why you want it? Cause for me,  I'm self diagnosed autistic.  My citizenship status here plays a role in that, but also because I'm low support needs. I work for myself, so I don't need to get accommodations. And the cheapest I've seen an assessment here for just autism is like 2, 000, you and so it's always, like you said, it's always questioning what's the outcome? What's the goal here? 

Yeah. And I just think especially as a psychologist who specializes in this area, I'm just like, do I need to go to someone else to tell me what I already know and also drop that amount of money?

It's just, it's a lot. And so I think it's important to just be realistic with yourself. If you're a psychologist, be realistic with your clients. Because the way I was trained, I remember it was like, oh, they have to do testing. To get diagnosed with ADHD or autism. But if you speak to anyone who's a specialist, like an expert in ADHD, they will not say that.

They will say what you need for an ADHD diagnosis is a really thorough clinical interview.  And what that is basically what a psychologist could do, right? It's just sitting that first session when you're speaking with a psychologist and just learning about the person's history. Because what's most important is that you've been struggling with this for a long time.

 Yeah, and I think that's important, you note that there are other things that can mimic ADHD symptoms. We know things like trauma can have very similar symptoms to ADHD, and yes, people who have ADHD are more likely to have some form of trauma, and then the two can exacerbate each other, but also things like, and I am not like a, take this powder, but certain mineral deficiencies can create brain fog and other ADHD type symptoms.

Also,  perimenopause.  Yeah. Yes, you may have had ADHD the whole time and somehow managed to cope, and then the wackiness that our hormones happen with perimenopause makes it worse.  This is not a word, but un copeable.  Where you can no longer cope, I should say. But, yeah, I think it's important that you noted that it has been present for a very long time. 

That would be in 

my 

book, on the side. Exactly! Because so many people are like, Oh I just, I'm really struggling to concentrate and I'm really struggling. And it's have you always been like this? And it's no in college and in high school, I was fine. And in my 20s, it's then maybe something else is going on,  right?

Glad that you brought that up. And also we're not going to go into the, I just see all the time. I'm sure you do too. Cause we're both in like the ADHD social algorithm  of this diet can cure your ADHD and this supplement can, you know, 

make 

it to where you function normally.

I don't know why 

people are so afraid of medication. It's something that when I work with clients, I'm very patient and I understand the stigma surrounding it and the  misinformation that's out there. Well, you know, 

Part of it too is that hangover from the like 80s and 90s where There was this media  fear mongering, for lack of a better term, of you're giving your kids hard, addictive drugs if you're giving them ADHD medication.

And so then so many parents were like, Oh my god, I'm not going to give my kid meth!  And then now we're 35 year olds, 40 year olds, and we're trying to decide if we want to  give ourselves that or give our kids that when we've grown up with this messaging.

,. We've gone totally off script, but I like that. And I think it's very on brand for  ADHD conversation. 

 Yeah,  I really enjoyed this and I think, it's good. We talk about a lot of really sensitive. 

Subjects, but I think it's so important for  women and moms to, to talk about these topics  or at least to just listen because it just gives you a feeling where, you just don't feel alone anymore. And you aren't the reality is that, most women struggle with these things even if it doesn't look like they do.

Yeah. And I think even if we zoom out aside from ADHD, motherhood  and womanhood in general.  Yeah. So tell everyone where they can find you and stay up to date on your  

so you can learn more about me on my website, DrGillyKahn.com   or on my Instagram page at Dr. Gilly Khan. And I will, definitely include updates every now and then, like while I'm writing, I throw a quote  onto my Instagram page.

Um, but yeah and you can look out for, more publications and stuff. I'm going to have a magazine article that I'm very proud of coming out soon about ADHD and women. And do you have a email list that people 

can sign up for? 

Yes, 

I do. Yeah. On my website.  Perfect. I'll put everything in the show notes.

, thanks so much. I've had a blast. 

Yeah. Me 

too.