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Attempting Motherhood
Attempting Motherhood: The Aud Way is a podcast for late diagnosed or late realised ADHD / AuDHD mothers.
It is hosted by Sam, an AuDHD ( autistic + ADHD ) elder millennial mom.
Episodes cover topics pertaining to motherhood, neurodivergence, the combination of those two and how they intersect.
Remember in this wild ride of motherhood, we're all attempting to do our best.
Attempting Motherhood
How to Support Your Autistic Child with Autism Advocate Erin Garcia
Trigger Warning :police violence against autistic individuals
Autism Advocate Erin Garcia joins me to talk about her evolution of "I don't know what to do" after her child's autism diagnosis, to now advocating and creating resources to help other parents.
Her podcast, "ASK! Autism Support and Knowledge" launched earlier this summer- she has guests (including me) to talk about all the ways you can support autistic individuals.
Resources:
The Case of Sensational Stims - This book is the simplest first step to understanding autism and helping your autistic child thrive. Available anywhere books are sold online or buy directly from the author!
Free Sensory Profile! - Complete this form to get your free sensory profile!
Help Your Child's Teacher Understand Your Child!- Here’s a free, simple, easy document I made to help teachers easily understand how to support their child.
Pre-IEP Document- Do you struggle to articulate what your child needs during an IEP? Erin created a simple, free resource made to help you rock the IEP and get your kid’s educational team on the same page as you!
Want to get in touch? Send us a message!
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AttemptingMotherhood.com
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Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, medical professional, or mental health professional.
I am sharing my lived experience. If you relate to any of the content in these episodes, do your own research and speak to a medical professional if needed.
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Buy me a coffee (an opportunity to show appreciation for the content you've enjoyed).
My guest today is Erin Garcia. She is a teacher, a mom of two, an advocate and author of a children's book called the case of this sensational stims.
And she has a podcast called ask autism support and knowledge. I was on her podcast recently and now she's coming on as a guest on mine.
As an advocate, Erin uses her. Experience in her information from being a teacher, as well as being a mom, who's gone through the autism diagnosis process with her son to provide resources, to create information that can help empower. Other parents who are going through the journey and help them learn how to advocate for their child's unique needs. Her main goal is for everyone to understand what stimming is and what it can look like.
Hence, the reason she's written a children's book about it.
We cover a lot in this episode, Erin talks about, of course, going through the process and starting to understand that her son is autistic.
As well as how she now advocates for her son and helps to create resources for other parents trying to do the same.
Erin was really kind to offer some of those resources.
That she has created. You can find them in the show notes. There is a quick sensory profile one.
There is a one pager that you can give to your child's teacher that helps them better understand your child become more informed and empowered about your child's unique needs without overwhelming them the same way that say giving them their diagnostic report would do.
You can find all of the resources that she's provided in the show notes.
I do want to add a little bit of a trigger warning. So as you'll hear, Erin is in America. As you may know, I'm originally from America.
In this conversation, it does come up where we talk about police violence against autistic individuals. Some of those have been in recent headlines and. I Do understand if that's not something that you can listen to right now, feel free to skip this episode. I will highlight those in the chapter notes, in the show notes.
So feel free to skip over those sections.
If that's something that you feel like would be too triggering for you.
And as often happens. We were carrying on in the pre-record and I decided to hit record just in the middle of us talking,
because I really thought it was important. What we were talking about. To give context, we recorded this when the Olympics were going on. And we jump into the middle of the conversation where , you'll hear erin highlight how some.
Typically autistic traits like lining up toys or being obsessed with trains.
Is viewed and treated completely differently than other children who may also be autistic and their special interest is something that is a lot more quote, unquote, socially obsessed. Socially acceptable, like being completely obsessed with basketball or being completely obsessed with soccer, whatever it is.
And then a last little note, we do specifically name Simone Biles because. What I am referencing is her talking openly about being ADHD. We are not alluding to, or trying to diagnose Simone as autistic. That is far from the case, but in case anything was unclear. I did want to clarify that that is not. What the conversation was implying.
As always, if you enjoy this, please share it.
Please like it. Please put a review and.
And feel free to reach out, to request any other topics or content that you want covered on the podcast. Let's jump 📍 in.
If you have a kid who like lines up trucks, it's Oh my God, that's autism. If you have a kid that can shoot baskets for two hours straight and they're three years old, that's Whoa, they're going to be a phenom. And I feel like so many like athletes. Who do things like they wear sunglasses like inside.
And I'm like, I don't think they're trying to be cool. I wonder if they're meeting a sensory need and it could almost just be like the visual stimuli around them. But it's also yeah, maybe it isn't mask of some sort. Maybe they are trying to be cool, but I'm like, ah, I don't know.
I've had this conversation.
Yeah.
With my three year old. About like we've been watching the USA Gymnastics and we've been talking about Simone Biles. And so now she's obsessed with Simone Biles.
And we, I know, right? And we watched her documentary and she's, now, partially pushed a little bit by me too, because I'm like, I would rather watch gymnastics than I don't know, Paw Patrol, but we did talk about too. I said to her, I was like, Hey, you know, baby, like, how our brain is a little bit different.
Like her brain is different. Like ours. Cause Simone Biles has talked about being ADHD. And she was like, that's pretty cool. And I'm like, yeah, that is pretty cool. And so other athletes who've come out and said, especially ADHD, I feel like more athletes are talking about that and be it because they don't know that they're also autistic or again, we obviously know there's like this social stigma that we're all trying to get rid of.
There are a couple of athletes who very much like what you were saying that I'm you mean when they were a child, they were completely obsessed with this, and if they weren't playing it, they were drawing it, and they were planning it, and they were like, this has been consuming their life since they were a tiny person.
And, I don't want to diagnose anybody, but there's just things that I go, yeah, and like you were saying that's accepted, and that's not thrown as a red flag, versus, A child who, yes, is lining up toys, or who is very insular, then is like, getting all the red flags.
No it's completely true what you're saying.
And it's not like I'm trying to diagnose everyone as autistic. Oh, that guy did a Rubik's cube, so he must be autistic. But I'm like, it's not that it's like a bad thing. I'm just saying when people do things that have like social clout, like they're super crazy, good gymnast.
It's Oh, she's a super crazy, good gymnast who happens to have ADHD. And it's but also the way her brain processes or. It's that's also why she's so good at it, and so it's yeah, it like you said, de stigmatizing it. But I find that so fascinating because what would happen if like we started, Encouraging autistic play when they're very young instead of discouraging it, because I'm like, yeah, okay lining up trucks I know the number one thing I hear from parents like from students that I work with or people just like online And stuff it's I gotta get them ready for the real world and you know Lining up trucks isn't gonna get them ready for the role.
It's no kidding. Of course, it's not However, when we engage in a child's passion and encourage it, they learn how to think, they learn how to interact with you, so much about the, one of the reasons why I was so afraid of an autism diagnosis was I was like, the way it was presented to me, and this is of course in the, nineties, early two thousands was like, your child is going to be completely isolated from the world and never be able to talk to anyone.
And they're going to be doomed to a life of, whatever complete isolation, and I'm like. No, that's not true. But I'm like, if someone perpetually tells you like, this isn't right. This isn't good. This isn't getting you ready for real world. This isn't, you should be doing this instead.
Why can't you be more like that person? Of course. And I always think of the most famous, like autistic people that we know like Albert Einstein, I read his biography and of course the The man doing the biography would not go out and say that he was autistic, but it was like every single autistic trait.
You could pass it like every stereotype of autism. I'm like, check check, check and his unwillingness to acknowledge that he, cause he, it was referenced like later in his life, people like, Whoa, he's like very different, but as a child, he had so many social issues with teachers, with peers, and he would always be thinking, that's like the origin of his, um, of his theory of relativity is thought experiments where he literally just thinks about something so long and then he like plays out in his mind.
And the theory of relativity, consumed him For like decades. And he had a couple of people in his life. He did not get along with his father but his mother and his grandmother, like nurtured him and loved him and didn't say he was weird or anything like that.
He was loved. And then he also just didn't give a crap what anyone else thought. It's like he couldn't get a job teaching high school algebra. He, frequently struggled with employment. And then he just kept still doing his thought experiments the whole time. Like it almost like it didn't occur to him to care what anyone else thought.
And I'm like, hello, like that's the most beautiful element of the autistic mind is that you don't give a crap. And I'm like, that's how you get Albert Einstein. So when you have parents who are frequently like trying to You know, get you assimilated to society.
I'm like, every parent wants their kid to be brilliant and exceptional and flourish and be the Simone Biles or the Albert Einstein or whatever their, realm is. And you need to stop telling them that the way that they're playing or the way that they're thinking is wrong. They're never going to be able to think the way you want them to think.
That's not a bad thing, and that took me 10 years to learn, so there you go.
We did, we hit record because we were just getting stuck into it in like the pre record, but so you are a teacher as well as a mom to at least one we know neurodivergent child, potentially two. You yourself are neurodivergent and You work, so you have your podcast which is amazing, and I'll link all of that in the show notes, but you also work basically just advocating and trying to teach parents basically what you've just summed up and learned and you've gone through this whole journey yourself, and now you're trying to advocate and teach them that It doesn't matter if your kid plays differently, they can still have a fulfilled life.
So if we can jump, like, all the way back and talk a little bit about your motherhood story
for sure. So, um, I,
I am a teacher. I've been teaching for 18 years and I live in California. And so I work with teachers and I work with parents, but my day job is really a teacher in a general education classroom where I have always have had, inclusion autistic children, a variety of disabilities are in my classroom, but I'm like a mainstream education teacher. And 1st, 10 years. Just going about my business, and then, about maybe seven, eight years into my teaching journey.
I, I have my first child still teaching blah, blah, blah around two years old. Um, we did, we had someone come to our house to, to watch him when we were like at work, my husband and I are both teachers. So one thing that I would say is I didn't ever really consider autism being something for him because he was only at home the first two years.
And it was like, he was completely. Perfect. Like not that there's anything not perfect about it now, but just he talked, but not a lot as a baby, but it was it was always chalked up that he's a boy. And so he's not going to talk as much, at about a year when he was a year and a half, I had a daughter.
And so they're 16 months apart. So super close in age and that was really fascinating because she started to do these milestones like, it's pretty fresh in my memory with him and then having her and then she's talking a lot weirdly, a lot compared to him and she's. significantly younger in the developmental sense of the word.
Okay. Whatever. When it was the 4th of July and he was two years old in our area, we're allowed to light fireworks and we're lighting them, in a very safe way. But my son, he cannot stop running back and forth and running back and forth. And he's not afraid or anything, but it's I tried to hold him because I'm like, I don't want, Him running around, like he's not running into the street.
He's doing it safely. He's just running on the sidewalk and it's like a motor is inside of him. And as I'm trying to hold him, it's like the motor is still going and he has to push out. It's so strong that in hindsight, he was completely sensory overloaded and it was like fascinating, but like he had to get that energy out of him.
But I, I didn't know that at the time, but in that moment, it was like a little, like flicker of a light. And at that same time in history, in my circle of the world, there were a lot of the Ferguson riots were going on. And I know you're not in America, but it's a lot of racial stuff with the police officers.
And at that time, racial things are coming up with police officers and autistic people. Because there were several men of color who were stopped by police officers and they were stimming in front of the police officer. And then they were in some cases murdered. Okay. Trigger warning, but that's really what happened.
And so this is in my periphery and, it's horrible and it's shocking and like, how, what do we do and all this stuff. And then I'm thinking about my kid. Yeah. We had a birthday party a 1 year birthday party for my daughter. My son is 2 and a half and we had maybe 50 people at our house.
And I have a aunt who is a speech and language pathologist who pulled me aside at the end of the party. It's I wanted to tell you that I think that R. J. might, Have some sensory needs that aren't being met and he really meets a lot of the autistic profile. And I really wanted to like, let you know, and she did it in a very tender way, because I think for a lot of us, like that word autism, when you don't know anything about it, like now I'm like, who cares?
Like you're autistic. It's okay. It's a wonderful thing. It's like being like, you got blue eyes. I got Brown, I was like, no big deal, she did it very tenderly and I was very, in hindsight, I'm like, man, that was really cool that she was able to walk me through.
And I had this, very knowledgeable person say, here's why I'm thinking of this. And here's why you need to consider some interventions because like his sensory needs are like not being met. And verbally his language is really behind, Typically developing children, and, she didn't say quite in those terms but 1 of the things that pointed out, and this is a very common 1 for why you consider an autism diagnosis is we would call his name many times and he wouldn't turn around and that to, 1 of the things that they do is a hearing test to see if there's no, if it is, it's a hearing issue or is this something else?
And I'll never forget. We had to go to children's hospital. And we're doing the test, and they basically put these little things in, and so when you, when they make sounds, you can see if the, if there's activation, basically, and if there's activation, it means that they can hear the sound when the sound goes off.
And it was almost like the person, the tester, would said, he can hear. It was really sad. Like, It's something else, and this really like doomsday type oh, I'm so sorry for your loss or something like that. That's how it was presented to me. And as I'm getting, I'm just sniffing out this diagnosis and I'm oh, as I'm reading and learning and this, I'm like, I think it is autism. And what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And, my husband and this is, a little bit personal, it's extremely common. And so for many males, when they find out that their son is disabled, it's like very hard for men.
Typically to accept and I've learned it's not very talked about, but I see snippets of it every once in a while. No one ever really wants to discuss because it's very private, but it was really hard for him. Really hard. It's a lot of people talk about grieving the child that you thought you were going to have, which I personally don't understand.
I find that offensive. If you grieved who you thought I was going to be able to like screw you. I, but I think I can I don't really theoretically understand that, but he really struggled, and there were other factors going on, but one of the things is he was very fearful of what his life would look like, and how he would be treated, and he felt unable to help him through that, cause He was just didn't know.
And so a lot of people, I think when they learn the diagnosis, they operate from a place of fear because fear is like when you're uncertain and you feel like you're supposed to be in charge, but you don't, you're not equipped. It's like the real version of that dream that people have, like, you suddenly find out that you were supposed to be in a chemistry class all year, and you never showed up to the class, and then you have to go take the final exam.
That's what that sensation felt like, but in real life. You're like, oh my god, I'm not prepared for this. And so we both, had it in other ways, but there was a a moment in time, some call it the dark night of the soul. I don't know what you call it, but, I was sleeping it's the middle of the night and I woke up in like a cold sweat and I thought I was having a heart attack and I can't breathe.
I can't breathe. I can't breathe. And I thought I was going to die. And I vividly recall this moment in time where I thought I was going to die. And it was completely related to my son being autistic. And I had this moment where it was like, you're afraid because you don't know what this is. And I don't know why, but it completely calmed me.
It was, I don't know, the voice of God or like the universe like calming me down, but it was like, you just don't know. Go find out. Go find out. And then it was like, okay that was like really a very I really genuinely thought I was going to die. In retrospect, as I'm saying this out loud, I'm like, Geez, Erin grow up,
no, but realistically, you probably started having a panic attack in your sleep.
It was a completely a panic attack. And you woke
up and you were like, I'm having a heart attack. What is going on?
And what it really is I was like, damn, subconsciously, I wasn't even able to get to that spot when I was conscious, but asleep, it's like running in my brain and running in my brain.
And I realized oh my God I'm so overwhelmed by this. But I had You know, no idea like that. I was really that overwhelmed. And, for me, I was kind of like, whoa, I'm like, really like suppressing some stuff, a diagnosis really brings that all up. And you realize that's also another reason why a lot of parents struggle, because I think humans in general, we've, To keep ourselves safe and protect ourselves.
We suppress a lot. Don't we, and it's like, it's a survival technique, and we've all done it to various degrees and even the most enlightened parent in some ways, you have to teach masking because, it's impolite. To be too blunt, or, you don't want to get too messy with people, and it's, we have things to do, and we have chores to get done, and we have an appointment to get to buck up, buttercup and it's like all those little things, and they just I, it just made me freeze in my tracks, it made me stop, it made me, ah, what is this?
And it was like, yeah, this moment was like, you just don't know, go learn, start there, you don't need to worry about what he's going to be like when he's 25, you need to be able to help him right now. He's, two and a half, and was very challenging because I'm trying to do this.
And in the meantime, my husband is struggling in his own ways. And I think that's also something that's not talked about because it's when all of these suppressed things come up, we, it's very surprising, it's like getting hit by a wave that you don't see coming or in, and you're just like, what way is up, and. I've never been a parent before. I don't know how the hell to do this. I'm barely, like I am, and I'm working and I have a kid and I think this is the common trope. And I'm sure you probably see this all the time with the parents you work with. And it's and then my spouse is over here and I don't know what the heck he's doing, but I need him to get on board or get off board, but I can't worry about him cause he's a grownup.
And then I can't be there for my spouse, who also needs me. But I'm like, we all need help and we got to help our two year old, like I can't help everyone, you know, and you sort of triage what you can do. And then remember too, I have a one year old also, so I'm like, you're trying to manage all these things and like how you make this out, keeping your family intact, keeping everyone healthy and, relatively like happy with each other, like in a civil way.
And so that was like a really challenging time. And that was, it feels like a lifetime ago, to be honest with you I, I feel like a completely different person if anyone's listening, but if you feel like so overwhelmed and you just feel like you don't know how you're going to make it through this or whatever the case may be, just like.
You honestly, you're, you probably need different information and you probably do things differently, and I would say that's hard to hear sometimes, I'm trying the best I can, I'm doing everything that I can, like, Why isn't it working? Why isn't this helping?
And, like I would just feel like I would try to do these things to help my kid thrive. And I'm like, I don't know if this is going to pay off. And I'm not sure. And I'm not sure. And I'm not sure that was like the message that I kept receiving. I was like, how do I know what I'm doing is right?
I tried to do everything right. And I still messed it up because I felt like somehow, like I, Caused this problem, that's how it was framed to me by medical professionals. And even, my, my family member who guided me through this and was like very clearly like, yeah, your kid is probably autistic.
And it felt like you better intervene or else, you better do some stuff right now or else he's gonna, who knows what's going to happen, and so I felt like this urgency, but what am I supposed to be doing and how do I get help? And so all of those things
And so often that's how it's presented to people is it's a problem, it's something to be fixed, but what I say, and I've recently had this conversation with a friend, like the person was going to be autistic or ADHD or whatever, regardless.
Okay, yes, you've got the diagnosis. Now, you have the language. You have that information. You have that knowledge. What you choose to do with it is up to you. But this person is going to be this way. no matter what, which is the same reason why, now we see everyone saying, Oh my God, it's overdiagnosed.
And I'm like no. Now we're just actually diagnosing people. Like we have always had autistic and ADHD and, people with dyslexia that's always existed, but now we understand the nuance of it better. Now we understand maybe how it presents differently from upper middle class white little boys versus anyone else.
Yeah. Inner city people of color. Yeah. It's crazy. That's so true. And I feel like if you've ever I got real deep into the whole disability rights and stuff. And there's a really brilliant book about call it's called in a different key. And I highly recommend it.
It's written by some journalists who explore um, disabilities and awareness and policies that affect people with disabilities, but specifically they talk about autistic people and how we understand it. But what they used to do to people who were disabled is so despicable.
Like people talk about the good old days when we didn't ever have these things. And everyone's such a little snowflake, and everything. I personally do not like the subscribing to a victim mentality.
So I don't like believing that, you know, everything happens to me and I have to just defend myself because I feel like if you're always coming from a place of defense, it's not a very healthy place to be in my personal opinion, you know? Um, and I get that. , I see that a lot, Oh, I'm so offended by the language that you use, you know?
And it's like, yeah, you're right. Some people talk really rude and some people are, Very insensitive and nine times out of ten it's because they're completely ignorant. They are completely On another planet. They have no idea what you are talking about. Yeah. And they might come across as brash or rude.
And sometimes people are intentionally being rude and I'm like, that's on them. Like, it's not my job to go fix them or whatever. But I just think that a lot of people who get offended all the time or feel like very defensive and especially you're going to get your heart broken by a lot of people who are supposed to be helping your child a lot of. Very well, meaning educators don't know what they need to know to help your kids, right?
They just don't. And I sit in these meetings sometimes, and it's just oh, dagger to your heart, not just with my own child. But when I go on meetings, because I have children in America, we say IEPs individualized educational plans, and I see these science teachers, or sometimes even their case manager who will just say these extremely insensitive things.
And it's like, do you know anything about this person that you're looking at? Like one, okay, I'll tell you one. My son, imagine he's in fourth grade at the time we're having this IP meeting, we had an occupational therapist in the meeting.
And in this classroom that he was sitting in right above his head, there was like a huge vent that they installed during COVID to like filter the room. And my son is very sensitive, like auditorily. A really loud sounds just it overwhelms him.
And so he's super duper struggling in 4th grade. And this is 2 years after covid. Perhaps that's part of it, but he doesn't have a 1 on 1 aid and he's sitting underneath his vent. And he is struggling immensely with executive function. He can barely, pull out his planner when they expect him to write down the stuff.
He's just following along with the teacher, but he literally cannot get out of the bag and onto the desk in a timely manner. So he's just always 20 steps behind. So he's just perpetually lost and overwhelmed and he doesn't have any outbursts at school. Like he's very compliant. So it's he's never a behavior issue.
He just needs to try harder. It's like a lot of that.
And
so this occupational therapist I, we were sitting in the classroom where we had the IP and I said, is this vent like always on? And the teacher like, yeah, it's for ventilation purposes. I go I know why he can't concentrate. I was like, this thing is, it's hard for me to pay attention right now, but I know that this is, something that is, It's part of his diagnosis.
So this is something that's very overwhelming. And the occupational therapist goes he's just going to have to get used to it. He's going to have to learn how to toughen up because this is something that like, this is a classroom. And I was like, with all, I literally said this and I was very proud of myself.
Cause I usually don't speak up cause I'm a weenie, like
I'm
getting better about it, but I don't want to be disrespectful. And also I am a teacher across the street, so I don't want to be rude to my peers, but I was like, with all due respect, that is literally his disability. He can't overcome it.
Like his sensory needs are what is disabling about being autistic. And let's come up with a way to help him like flourish in this classroom. He's never going to overcome this, or at least not right now, and what was really cool about her. It was a little bit of a tense moment, but I wasn't like a jerk about it.
I was just like, actually you're wrong. But like I tried to, that's a hard thing to tell someone that they're wrong, but but I said she, to her credit, she called me the next day and said, I just wanted to let you know, I really thought about what you said and you're totally right. And that was very that was wrong of me to say that she apologized.
But how many times has a similar comment been made and a parent not been informed enough or felt emboldened enough to say something and so there's no solution and instead that other kid is It's left to sit in the class and struggle.
We're sending them out to the firing squad when we don't have informed parents because, and so many parents, this is why I do the work I do, because so many parents don't know.
They don't know. And they are like you're the teacher, you're the expert, you're the per, and she is the expert and she doesn't know. And here's why. It's because when we learn about Autism and dyslexia, and I am a teacher, so it's like we learn about, it's a paragraph in our teaching book, and we're like, oh, you use different strategies to help them learn, and you can't, because you're managing 40 children, and because you're writing reports, and you're responding to emails, and you're inputting grades, and you're grading this stuff, and you're da, and for an occupational therapist yeah.
You would think that she would know better, but she's an occupational therapist. She works with him on how to hold his pencil, on giving him fidgets that work for him, on showing him, some things. But I'm like that doesn't seem like someone who's very well informed about autism. And she probably isn't.
She probably isn't. But so many people are like she's an occupational therapist. She must know. And people say that to me all the time. And I think about what I knew as a teacher, like my first year. Oh you're a teacher. You should be able to handle this. It's I had a degree that said I was like qualified, but I was like, and part of that too is it's a new teacher and that's the nuance of it.
And that's the thing that I really love. I want to help parents with. I want to help teachers with it. Eventually I want to help police officers with this, but it's like that ability to interact in a productive way is all we need because parents, you just need to learn what, The truth is of the matter, so that you can have informed conversations.
You don't want to be passive. And you also don't want to be too aggressive in IEPs because you know what? I've been in one where parents are so rude. I'm already trying to do the right thing. You just need to be very clear in what your vision is. And that's what really changed for me is like, when I became clear, I'm like, I'm going to help understand what my child's unique needs are. And then I'm going to advocate for those unique needs for my child in a way that.
Make sense to me and make sense to them. I'm going to do that.
Sometimes we just need these like little accommodations, I guess you'll call it where we can present the information differently or the information is presented. To us a little bit differently. So how can from, if you put like your teaching hat on and I guess a little bit of your parent hat, what are like doable things?
Cause if we think like no schools have budgets, every school is going to say yes, your child might be need a one on one aid and most schools are going to try and fight against it. But what are. accessible things that schools could do to be more neuroaffirming.
Oh, yeah. First of all, as the first thing that teachers need to do and parents need to do and teach to children is how to regulate themselves.
And I know that's you totally in your wheelhouse, but I cannot tell you how much Disregulated people like impact their environment around them, and if you get to dysregulated people in a room, like we got an explosion, and I think a lot of autistic children are dysregulated.
If you're a parent working using that word regulation is like a little bit of a code, it's almost like, Oh, it's like a little clue to the teacher. Oh, she's like doing her homework a little bit, like sensory needs. And I actually, I can share this with you. I have a sensory needs, like profile worksheet, and it basically you can score yourself.
And it's not like your score doesn't matter. It's just to figure out what your sensory needs are. And then it's here's some stuff you can do to help because there are a lot of different things and of course sensory needs like ebb and flow and I don't mean to go off on like too much of a tangent of it, but like some days you need, deep pressure and some days you need to be moving and some days you need a little bit of both.
And some days you don't need anything, and it all depends on did you sleep? Did you eat? Did you get sunlight? Did you have a stressful day? Did whatever. So I would say regulating yourself and teaching your child how to regulate and co regulating with your child before they go to school, when they come home, and what does that look like for you?
And it's also really hard because sometimes kids like feel like it's stupid and pointless. Like I know whenever I do breathing stuff with like my son, he's like, bam, you know, whatever. But what's crazy is he likes it a lot and sometimes like it'll be something like like I'll just call him over and if he's really hardcore stimming and I just give him like a Big squeeze.
And for him, he really likes it. I know for some autistic people, that's like, don't touch me. I can't be touched, and that's really hard for parents to like, they want to touch, be physical with their kids. And like they, their child doesn't want that. So finding like other ways to connect and giving your kid like breaks and stuff.
Honestly, when my kid comes home from school, he does his homework, which takes him honestly about two to three hours every night. And I don't have him do one more thing. And he'll do it. He'll soldier on and he gets a little bit faster as the year goes on, but it's really hard because he's coming home.
But for him to me, I'm like, if you took a break right when you got home from school and then try to do your homework, it would probably work out better for him. It wouldn't take as long. But he, in his mind, he's very much I need to finish All my tasks before I can go enjoy myself. He's very rule following and very conscientious, which is like a very stereotypical autistic trade.
I do worry that it's going to lead to burnout and I already see signs that it is. And so teaching him how to give himself what he needs versus what is being demanded of him. He tries really hard.
So finding ways to help him be conscious of his needs. So I know I've gotten like on a tangent, but as far as teachers go, letting children stim in your classroom is one of the best ways to keep a kid regulated and to keep a kid engaged. And so often teachers shut it down because it's that's distracting to me.
I'm trying to give a lecture and here you are. Moving around in your chair or, bouncing off the walls or, flipping your fidget. And I don't like that. And you can't only, you can only regulate yourself when it's convenient for me, like a lot of teachers are like that. So being willing that things look different.
And then also if a kid is struggling to engage with your curriculum, like talking to them about it, be like, hey, tell me about what's going on with this paper.
Or tell me what you mean by this sentence. Just pick something out in particular. I'm not sure what you meant. What did you mean when you were saying this? And honest to God, I do this all the time with my students, but especially the ones who are really struggling. I'm like, I don't get it.
Like when I say I don't get what you mean, it puts the child in a position to explain something to you. Like they're almost like an authority on their own thoughts. And that's empowering, right? Empower a kid that like your thoughts and your beliefs and your needs, are realistic and they matter.
I do wonder like. Things that are free, like breathwork that is regulating for everybody, because everyone forgets that everyone has a nervous system. So even neurotypical kids can benefit. You're in an area that maybe would tolerate a bit more woo.
Then some other parts of the country, how do you think parents would react if you started like every day or somewhere in the middle of the day if you did five minutes of breath work, because that's something that's free that any teacher could do but I think a lot of the time teachers worry about how the parents would react.
Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. That's a really good question. And don't worry, I got a lot of people who are not into the woo. But what's interesting, what you said, breathwork is a woo term. And yet, the scientific literature shows us that breathwork isn't, is not. If woo scares you, there's so much overwhelming scientific literature that says that regulating your nervous system, stimulating your vagal nerve, through breath work, through things like mindfulness are profoundly impactful and they're absolutely free.
You know what I mean? So that's honestly how I phrase it. What's crazy is, and I don't do it every day, although as you're saying that, I'm like, it would be a good day every day.
I have done breath work with them. I've never had a parent complaint overwhelmingly. And these are, like last year I had juniors and seniors too. And I've had freshmen and sophomores overwhelmingly like, Whoa, that was like really relaxing. Why was that so relaxing? And a lot of times just like a little blip on their radar.
Because I don't do it all the time. I usually do it like in periods of stressful times or, if we've had a lot going on, but or sometimes I just do it for me. I'm like I'm like, not gonna be able to do this class.
I need a minute. You're all going to have a minute with me. We're all going to
do it together.
And I'll do it like I do a lot of stuff like intentional, like what's our intention today? And even that I think shifts the way that we are breathing. It shifts the way that we are like interacting with our environment. And I don't, like I'm all down with the woo, but I don't feel like it's it's so out of left field.
I'm honestly like. It's, there's so much if I don't mean to keep going back to it, but it's I think a lot of people would really benefit from doing things differently, I again, not to go back to parents, but I think so many parents, they like, they just divorce.
Themselves from their own needs. Like when they learn their child is disabled and they're like, okay, I'm going to just pour all my energy into helping my kid, like I see a lot of parents like that. It's like their physical and mental health, like just deteriorates. A lot of times parents have disabled children, their marriage splits apart or their union, with their partner splits apart.
And it's extremely common. And a lot of times people like, Oh, they point to the disability. It's really hard to have a disabled child. And it is hard. But I don't think that's really what it is. I think a lot of people Don't want to look inward. Cause it's super scary, it's like really scary.
And a lot of times challenges show us what our own needs really are. They show us where we're really at. They show us it's not necessarily a win lose type of thing. A challenge can show us like, Ooh, here's what I need to work on. Or here's where I need to get stronger. And I always think of the analogy of if you're on a.
Plane and the planes going down, you got to put the oxygen mask on yourself first before you can go help anyone else. Cause otherwise if you run out of oxygen, no one can thrive. So there's a story someone asked. What's the fastest way for me to get to the top of Mount Olympus so I can be with the gods? And the person said, just make sure every step you take is in that direction. And so I love that story because I'm like, if I'm trying to get to, maybe not the gods, but if I'm trying to get to health, or I'm trying to get to wellness, or I'm trying to get to stability, or I'm trying to get to peace or harmony or whatever the thing is that your intention is, am I taking my step in that direction?
Or is my step going away from it? Is this building a healthy relationship or a toxic relationship? And honestly, sometimes you might not like the answer you get or it might make you uncomfortable or it might make you feel like i'm just trying to do the best I can and I just want to help him And you know if you find yourself like whining a justification of it.
I'm like Maybe that's not really the right answer. Like maybe that's the answer that you want it to be, but maybe it's really not the right one for you. And that's really not something that you can say out loud. Like I can talk to you about, but that's a tough one. And it takes a lot of practice to be willing to do it.
I think it's going to take the rest of my life to be able to do that. But I try every day and I take, but some things that really helped me become way more empowered and become a better teacher and become a better parent and honestly become a better spouse but when I started eating different foods that,
I have a I have celiac disease.
And so does my son, which is like, issues are typical. Extremely typical of autistic people. I hate certain people in the health food industry who always try to. We're going to, yeah,
we very often see if you just remove gluten, if you just remove whatever heavy metal toxins and do this detox and like your kid's not going to be autistic, I know that's not what you're saying.
No, I'm definitely not. But I'm also like, you can heal your gut because guess what? Everyone is better when your gut is healthy. That's it.
Yeah. And if someone is Let's say autistic and celiac and they're having gluten all the time. They're going to be uncomfortable. It's going to make everything so much worse.
So yes, of course, if you remove the gluten, they're going to appear and feel better, but it doesn't make them not autistic. It just means they have one less. huge thing that is bothering them every single day.
I remember I got to talk to this guy who's like a health expert and he's like really amazing and he's promotes this very healthy, like scientific based diet.
There's no doubt. And he talked about how he was like chronically depressed and super anxious and, suicidal ideation and he changed his diet and it like transformed his life. And then he goes on like later in the conversation to talk about how Eating the way that he eats really, has cured autism symptoms and stuff.
And I was like, bro, what are you talking about? Like you're curing, you get cured of your neurotypicalism? No, you didn't. You just helped heal your gut. And then you felt better. I was like, believe it or not, like we can all help ourselves feel better by eating nutrient dense food, but it's so like rude and offensive to be like, oh, I like cured your neurotype.
It's like, shut up.
I'm just thinking of, Obviously with your son, you've learned so much on your journey. And once you understood that he was autistic, you like dove into educating yourself and that's obviously impacted your work life and your teaching and you're able to apply that.
I'm curious, two things, if someone suspects their child is resources that you can recommend, and then also once they get to that school age, like how can we be. Good advocates for them without being The bully with lawyers behind us that makes everybody life in the school district harder, because I think we all want the same outcome, but how you go about it.
It's very different.
No, for 100 percent true. Okay. So that's super good question. Okay. Number 1, once you understand what your kids needs are. Like a lot of stuff unlocks. And if you can learn about autism from autistic adults, a million more things unlock because they can, they have the power of not only being in the, obviously autism presents differently for different people, but like they can explain things and there's groups all over the place. A quick Google search, you'll find something in your area online, whatever. I think my page, your page are like wonderful ways to like quick little things. We're not broken is a really beautiful book by Eric Garcia. He's not related to me, but he's a journalist, but he talks about his educational journey and his life as being late diagnosed autistic.
I think if you understand what stimming is, I literally wrote a book on stimming. It's called this case of sensational stims. And it's essentially once we understand like why someone's stimming, we can help meet their needs. So like a lot of parents get super overwhelmed with it. And that is honestly like my biggest fear because stimming, almost everyone does it, you twirl your hair, you bite your nails.
You are stimming, you're clicking a pen. You're just, you're doing it. It's a way to express energy or emotion and get it out of your body. And it's like moving your body to get it out. Some autistic people dance a lot, or my son paces, or sometimes we have verbal stimming like squealing or, making vocal sounds using our vocal cords.
All these different things. Hand flapping is a really typical indicator that someone's autistic. If you can understand if your child's stim is a happy stim, an overwhelmed stim, it's just like a baby's cry. You start learning. Oh, that's a hungry cry. That's all stimming is. And so that's why I wrote that book.
But I am writing another book and I really want to give it away to parents for free. That's like my goal. And it's essentially like all the questions that, people tend to have and like information that I've gained not only from personal experience and professional experience, but from many different people that I've met across sections of, autistic and neurodiversity affirming people.
And so I can share maybe a link that you can share if people are interested. Absolutely. Yeah. And I'll
include your first book also. So people can obviously go and buy that.
Yeah. And what I, I also think the other thing with with that is that I do have some, the sensory profile I give to parents for free.
And there's one that I use I'll give you the link, but it's like before your kids start school, it's just like a way to introduce your child to the teacher, but in a very quick way. Quick, concise way. Cause I, sometimes I get parents who are so worried and they send me these like eight page long diagnostics.
And I'm like, I love you, but and I'm a reader, but. Many people aren't, and they won't do it, and they feel offended by a novel that's being sent to them about their kid, and they're also like And if it's,
A report from a psychologist, it's oftentimes in medical jargon, and teachers aren't trained, they're
not, yeah. So if
you can teach them, yeah, like, how to Give me the bullet points.
And it's not because they don't care, but what really will happen is if you give them the quick version and make it seem easy to understand your kid, it often opens up curiosity. People don't like to be overwhelmed because it dysregulates them.
And when you get overwhelmed with information, you tend to not be receptive to anything because you're so busy trying to get yourself back to your baseline. So you see a lot of teachers like this, when they get that stuff. So with that said, it's just really simple. It's not, it's just like a small graphic organizer and people just make a copy on Google and then they edit it out.
But I put my kids picture up at the top, because it remind them that they're a human being. And then it's just a couple of quick questions. I'll share that with you. Because I really that is my whole vision is empower parents to become informed so that they can have a loving relationship with their child.
So that their child doesn't become like suicidal at 16 because. Just really, I feel so much so many autistic people are like traumatized so severely for no good reason. It's like people who are like, I thought I was helping, you know, as like, no, you thought that, but like, why didn't you think something else?
It's we're all doing the best we can, but I think we can do a little bit better. And it's honestly just like a little bit of a shift, we're just a couple degrees off and I think we can get ourselves back to normal. To helping kids thrive. We're really close. And so that's honestly, that's like my whole mission is make kids safe and it's selfish.
I want my kid to be in spaces where I don't need to fear for his life. That's the truth of it. I don't know if you saw what happened to Ryan Gaynor These are American guys who were killed. But other kids like there's a little
context to that if people don't know. So they were both black men.
They were autistic. One had a gardening tool, and the police felt threatened for some reason. Yeah. He was having a
meltdown and had a gardening tool in his hand.
Yeah. And then the police read that as a threat, obviously incorrectly read that as a threat, and in that case it ended up with them killing him.
It's unfortunately, and disgustingly, it has happened. A lot over history, but especially recently, we have seen several headlines where this has happened.
Yeah. I'm not trying to say it's happening all the time, but if that was my kid, I, it would only need to happen one time. It doesn't matter how many times it's happened, but it's not uncommon is I think the point.
There's one boy, this is a long time ago and he didn't die, but he was an 11 year old boy stimming in Utah and he was shot. I think it was 13 times they shot an 11 year old boy 13 times, like what is happening, in someone's brain that thinks that's okay. I don't really know.
But what it says to me without trying to be judgmental on the officers that decided to take this action. I think what it says to me is people don't know what stimming is. That's my book is yeah, children's book, but that's the truth is. I go, Oh my God, people are so afraid. They're so afraid.
And like when my son stims, it's really unusual noises. It probably looks a lot like someone who's on drugs or something. And my son is going to be a big person. I'm a big person. My husband's a big person. And right now he looks like a little boy, but if he's stimming like this, when he's 16 or 17, I remember I was in CVS the other day and I'm with him and he's doing his pacing back and forth and I can see on the security camera.
And I go, God, it looks like he's trying to steal something. It just looks like that because he's, it looks like he's nervous. And he probably is nervous because there's lights and there's sounds, but if someone were to stop him and be like, Hey, what are you doing? I don't know if he would be able to say, oh, I'm autistic and I'm stimming.
And I don't know if I want him to do that. But I don't want him to not stim, but I don't want him to be stopped like this and all of these things. And so this is why I also want to empower parents, but I also want teachers to know what they're looking at. And if we can also help kids be regulated.
My child is not very worried about social conventions, but he masks a lot at school. Like he doesn't do, he talks in a way it's he's very blunt and very direct. And like most people, I feel like conflicted because sometimes autistic people, you can look at them and the way that they hold their bodies and stuff.
And you're like, Oh, that person's probably autistic, or they have some tendencies that are like, very observable and other people you would never know because of, They have other tendencies or they can mask really well, or they just don't present in the typically autistic way.
And I always struggle with that with my kid is does he look autistic enough for people to know that he's autistic? Or does he look not autistic to people? I don't know how he looks at people, but the kind of attitude I took, and maybe this might be helpful for your parents, but like a lot of people tried it.
We don't want to talk about it. We don't want to say it. We don't want to advertise his disability. And I get it. And we don't want to label him or whatever, but I took the attitude. I want everyone to know he's autistic. And I want everyone to know what autism actually means. And I just do it at his school, so I've presented my book there, and I've talked to people, and I, because I think that it's very obvious he's different.
So why am I going to pretend like he's not different? I don't want to take on the attitude that like, okay, he needs to change who he is. I just want everyone to know what they're looking at type of thing. And so that, that is like another motivation, because when people know what they're looking at, then they won't fear when he's stimming and probably be like, Oh, it is unusual.
I get it. He, the way that he does that in public is like different. And he doesn't do it at school because I think he knows there's I think he knows that kids are going to be mean, and
And it's likely too that somewhere along his school journey, he has done something and some other kid has said something.
Yeah. And even if he doesn't subscribe to social constructs, he can still get his feelings hurt. Yeah. He can still take on that essentially rejection from another child and register Oh, and hopefully it's just some other kid has said something and not been physical, but like that happens too.
Yeah. I think, even artistic people who don't, so much care what other people think we can still take on these other things and we do learn masking. What are your thoughts on like the more visual, like the sunflower lanyards are becoming more popular and becoming more known.
What are your thoughts on um, getting our kids to wear something like that, especially like you said, as your son grows, if he's a 15 year old going out on his own, going down to the corner shops, wearing something like that, and hopefully people being able to recognize that.
Dude I'm, that's another conflicted thing too, because number one okay, you and I know the sunflower thing is like an indicator. I'm autistic. I've seen people to like, sometimes I go nonverbal. They like flip it over and it's I can't speak, but this is my name. And, they do a little brief explanation or something.
To me, I'm like, okay, I get it. It's like the effect of a medical bracelet. Yeah. If you have a heart condition or something or what diabetes, you put it on your bracelet. So for some reason you go unconscious or something, essentially I see it almost like papers like these are my, this is my passport.
These are my, this is my reason why I'm allowed to be here, and I feel that's tricky because it's no one's business, like on one hand and I don't love him just having to like constantly. I'm autistic. I'm autistic. I'm autistic. I, it's like the same effect of like people who it like, your autism diagnosis influences nothing in the sense that you're always autistic.
A diagnosis, does it make you more or less autistic? It doesn't. You know what I mean? You're always autistic. The way that you perceive the world is the way that you perceive the world, but your interaction with other people is where the issues arise. And how can you quickly explain to people that you're different in a way that honors your dignity and, it helps people respect you.
This is something that everyone probably has to work out for their own self. It's the same kind of principle. I don't know if you've seen it's, people put it on safety belts of their child child is autistic in case of emergency they may not respond to verbal commands or something like that.
And Oh, like that's jacked up, but I'm like it's like for an emergency situation, but then people don't like it being labeled. And maybe predators will notice this. And, autistic people are way more likely to be sexually assaulted or victimized. And, the people who are really more likely to do that are people who are hyper people pleasers who are very good at masking and, this and that and different personalities.
Maybe there's something to consider in here because if I thought I had a people pleaser type autistic person as a child, I might be like, maybe. Maybe this, I don't know if it would make it better or worse. As you can see, like I haven't completely worked it out in my brain. I, yeah, that's okay.
I think what I basically have done my method has been like, I just tell people, like verbally for my kid.
Yeah.
And I talk to him too. I say, you are autistic and it's a beautiful thing and I tell him what it means and I don't want him to. think that it has to be his whole identity, or like, I don't, it's important, but I don't want him to get like, wrapped up in you're just you're you, but it's good that you're you, and this is a big part of you, but you're just RJ, you're just the way that you are, and it's perfect the way that you are, and we love the way that you are.
I don't know, I don't know, what do you think about it?
I, so I like the idea that they're a quick, easy visual say like, because we travel internationally, right? And the international airports, especially are really starting to recognize them. Both we typically fly out of Sydney. In Australia, and we fly into San Fran in America, and I've seen signage at both of those that like they see it and they understand it.
So that's good, especially for someone who gets really overwhelmed. I think it's an easy in that scenario thing. My thought, and this is probably more of like a pipe hype dream romanticized. The real pipe dream is. Police being taught about neurodivergence and being taught about stimming and being taught about autistic people.
But my thought is, yes, if they just know what this symbol is and , let's pull from the headlines. If you see like a six foot two African American guy, this is again in America, who's stimming or starting to have a meltdown. And at least if the police come upon this situation and they see the sunflowers Maybe then they don't use lethal force.
Maybe then they try and sorry, I'm like getting emotional because I just, the whole thing really bothers obviously really bothers me, but the fact that I've had meltdowns, I've been where I had to pull my car over and I can just imagine, and I've been like completely nonverbal in that meltdown.
Pulled my car over and I just imagine if a police for some reason had come upon me because I've pulled over to the side of the road and they're coming up to check on me and I like can't get the words out. What are they going to think? And I'm like a five, six white girl. Like, that's not a threatening presence.
But if I looked different, the scenario could go totally different. And so I just see it as this maybe it's one more thing that Might prevent something, but in a day to day situation, I do, I agree with you if I have mixed as far as, then you just walk into a room and you're like, I'm autistic and then you're immediately also dealing with these preconceived notions that people have about what, because I'll tell you, I am like, very open with disclosing, I don't even consider it disclosing.
I just I throw it into conversation, my name is
Sam and I'm autistic. It's just
nobody. I just drop it in there. And the looks that I get from some people, it, you can tell it's a bit I don't know if you want to say jarring or confronting, because I am not what they think autistic people are.
There you go. And so, I get that and I'm in the same boat with you of from a day to day wearing, say a sunflower lanyard just around, I do struggle because, again, yes, you're immediately then combating people's preconceived ideas.
I know, dude, it's so crazy. And I mean that you could do a whole podcast episode, but just about that, like stereotypical presentations of autism versus not on.
And yeah, I really, it's something that I struggle with especially when we go out in public, because I feel like I don't, I really genuinely don't know how my child is really perceived, yeah. And, I don't want to like always think about it, but I'm always like, it's always on my mind, and I don't know what I'm trying to say about that, but that's so interesting because I guess I, I guess what made me think of this thought is when you talked about how you share it, if you share it in a conversation with a group of people and you just casually mention it, there is this kind of element of no, you're not.
I'm sure people think that,
Okay.
She is not autistic, she doesn't, look at her, she's having a conversation, it shows us how little people. I don't know if a better word to say, but people really don't have a lot of credibility towards the autistic mind and what the autistic Able to do.
And we see that all the time with people who talk about wanting to cure it. I'm like, what the hell do you want to cure? This is the autistic mind is like, has come up with some of the greatest inventions and the greatest solutions to humans problems. And it's such a needed it's so obviously like an evolutionary Like it's, I think it's been around forever.
I just think that there's all different types of, every brain is different. Like the way that we process everything is different. And of course it's due to so many external factors, but also like we all process information in our own unique way. That's what all makes us human, but it's it's important to have the diagnosis. And this is where I think a lot of parents get stuck is like the reason why you want the diagnosis. So you can access supports easily because. Fine. You might not get the official diagnosis. Okay. And maybe you're functional and you're doing all these things, but if you're a child going through school without a diagnosis, if you're, going through college without a diagnosis, you don't get afforded the same kind of supports that you might need, but also It is an important part of your identity, don't you think?
Like, how liberating was it for you to know wait, I'm not broken. That's what Eric Garcia's book is all about. It's I'm not broken. I'm just autistic, but for so long too, I think people think of autism as oh, that's a broken thing. That, that and because it was so perpetuated in the media and stuff that it's just white boys who get it, that's why if you have.
A black autistic man, people don't know what that is. They've never seen it before, so they confuse it with other media images that they've seen of black men on doing things, behaving in atypical ways. And that's a big problem, and it, when you got emotional, I'm like, oh man, it's so deep in me.
Like I feel you're, it's so frustrating. And I'm not going to try to say I understand the black experience. At all, but I, what I do understand is having a little boy and wondering if someone is going to try to crush it, and I, it motivates me every single day. It's a terrible thing, but it's not
true.
Yeah. And I think our experiences in that way are so similar but so different because you're, you obviously also have a daughter, but talking specifically about your son, you're worried about him growing up, becoming an autistic adult who stims, who does things that people might turn their head at and misconstrue and take a different way.
And because he will be like a large man, that scenario is going to go one way. I look at my daughter, who is a blonde haired, blue eyed, white girl. Also neurodivergent, she's going to grow up and do things, but I know, and I hope it changes in the next 20 years as they're growing up, but I know as of right now, if she's a blonde haired, blue eyed, white girl doing something that's weird.
She's just going to look at, be looked at as like a girl who's doing stuff weird. And her scenario is going to be completely different than what your son's scenario will be.
Yeah. It's not that it's easier for her, but it's like less dangerous. It might be socially soul crushing sometimes, people might be cool or something, but
Cause I'm the same as you.
I've had the conversation with my mom and I'm like, I just don't want to minimize her. I just don't want to like teach her that she can't be herself. I never want her to feel like she has to make herself smaller or less or conform.
God, how beautiful is that? But then you also know that there's going to be a price to pay for that.
There is. And I think a lot of parents who try to teach masking and suppress the stims, they think that they're helping. They really do. They're really like, I genuinely just want them to be ready for the real world. So they can't be themselves in their own home. God, but it's so beautiful that you're like doing that for your child.
Like how empowering is that? Whatever she turns out to be, she knows she's going to be loved and accepted for exactly who she is, but also you can nurture her and get her ready for it. Yeah, there are going to be some really hard things and life is hard sometimes, like people are mean, people are going to hurt you, but yeah, it's like a different kind of thing when you're worried about your son getting murdered.
Absolutely. There was one time at school, like where My son had a meltdown at school and he really rarely has. And the teacher didn't say anything to me, but at home, he also had a meltdown and then I said, Hey, is everything okay? Because RJ, lost it today. And she said, Oh, he actually did have quite a bit of a meltdown at school, it was like a really busy day and I wasn't able to tell you.
And I was Oh, like you probably should have give me a heads up. So I was like, RJ, like what is going on? Like when he was regulated, I didn't do it during his meltdown. Let him do his thing. Later, hours later, he said Today, some kid tried to snatch my snacks from me. And I said, what?
Yeah, we were in choir and he tried to snatch my snack from me. So what did you do? I snatched him back. And I was like, Oh yeah, good job, buddy. He didn't hit him or anything, but he took him back. And the kid, said some mean words to him or something like that. And I think probably called him a meanie.
And I also think that kid was not expecting him to take him back. Like he thought he was just going to be able to do it. So I tell the RSP teacher and his mainstream teacher what happened. And what was really interesting was the RSP teacher was like, oh man, I'm like. I'm sorry that happened.
We'll I'll talk with RJ about it later. She didn't say anything about what was going to happen with the other kid or anything like that. But the mainstream teacher was like, that is not acceptable behavior. I will definitely make sure that he has a consequence. And we will get to the bottom of this so that this never happens again.
And I was like that's what I wanted to hear. And I, in that moment, I was okay, she's going to be my ally. She's going to be my helper and just look for the helpers, and it was just, it was inconsequential in terms of Okay, snatching a snack, even if the kid took it. Okay, kids are kids, people are shitty, whatever.
But then when she had responded and she responded to both of us in that very kind of firm tone, the RSP teacher emailed me the next day and said, okay We got the boys in the room to like, talk about what happened so that we could make sure that this doesn't happen again. And I thought RJ just asked a great question.
He said actually, no, she called me. She called me, but she told me she was gonna put the boys in the room and I said, okay, that's fine. And she called me later to say it went well. And I thought RJ just asked the greatest question. He said, why did you do it? And I just thought that was so cute, and I was like, Okay.
So condescending, and I was like, yeah, really good question. Like, why would you do that? And I just said what the
teacher should have been asking.
Yeah, it just, she thinks so little of him. Like anytime he asks something of like consequence or value or isn't curious or I'm like, she just doesn't think he's like able to do very much, and I she outed herself, is what it is. And she's in charge of his special education plan, his individual education plan. And in some ways, I'm like, whatever that's okay. At least I know how she really views him, but I also made me really proud.
I was like, you know what? My kid is stands up for himself and he doesn't like, Take a bunch of crap from kids, and so I was like very proud and I don't know, it just, it shows you a lot of things, and that's I don't want that for my kid to be bullied, but I was also like, now I know how he responds in a situation where someone, and it was very logical, what he did and he took it, I take it back, but he also, I don't know, I just felt really, your kids can surprise you, I always,
And he didn't escalate, and But he melted
down later.
He was really overwhelmed, but in the moment he dealt with it.
But in the moment, yeah, because it very quickly could have escalated with two fifth grade boys, that can very quickly escalate into being physical or being
Yes, and here's the crazy part, he never would have told me if I hadn't seen him have a meltdown later, it would have never crossed his mind to share this information with me, it just, no, he doesn't share a lot, he shares his special interests he doesn't often talk about his feelings or his thoughts or his emotions, and this is something that autistic people often struggle with, is interoception, the feeling of yourself, and how processing information, but, he You have to explicitly teach that so how did you feel when that boy snatched you?
I felt mad, good. You should feel mad. That is a very, something that would make me very angry, and what do we do when we're angry? Like, how do we, you can talk through it that way and identify it and know what that feels like. And now he has, words for that, but he wasn't going to share it.
Maybe it's because he's a boy, maybe because he's autistic, maybe he was still processing it. But, I've noticed that my son only shares things that like really bring him great joy, but he doesn't often share things that Make him very sad or very anxious. He doesn't, I don't know if it's cause it's too painful to talk about.
Maybe it's too overwhelming to talk about. Maybe he just doesn't feel like it's appropriate or needed, but that's going to be something that we're going to work on, throughout his whole life, and I think we're all, we all have our like little things, but, or big things, I don't know.
It's not a little thing, but just we're teaching our kids stuff, and it's okay, and it's just hard. I think always trying to figure out is this autism, is this, Growing up, it's just, and then I'm like, why don't you put the label on it? It's just and you had a really
good tip, too, when with your interactions with the teachers of look for the allies.
Yeah. I think that's what a lot of parents, when they're so lost in treading through kids going through school look for the allies. Look for the parent who, or look for the teacher who's going to do that little bit extra, who's going to get curious and try and understand. Your kid who is going to actually put their hand out and try and be that help and I'm really conscious of time and we have I know, I'm so sorry.
No, for you. I'm sorry. Because it's evening. I'll add. Your book and all the different links to the show notes. I'll add the link for your podcast. Obviously all of your socials and yeah, I just, I thank you so much.
Thank you so much. I always enjoy talking with you and I just love you so much.
Thank you for doing the work that you're doing because you're helping a lot of people.
Oh, thank you. Don't look at me like. You're the one. So thank you.
