When Spirit Speaks… How Do You Know If It’s Real? — With Nathalie Legrand

What does it actually feel like when spirit communicates with you… and how do you know it’s not just your imagination?

In this episode of Soul Sync, I sit down with Nathalie Legrand, an evidential medium, to explore one of the biggest questions people have about mediumship:

How do you know it’s real?

This isn’t a conversation about dramatic moments or supernatural experiences.

It’s about the subtle, internal reality of mediumship — where feeling, knowing, and imagination begin to blend… and where doubt can either block or deepen the connection.

We explore what really happens when you connect with the spirit world, why so many people struggle to trust what they receive, and how mediumship becomes clearer when you stop trying to force it.

Because the truth is…

Most people aren’t disconnected.

They’re just overthinking what’s already there.

🔊 What you’ll hear:

•  What mediumship actually feels like (and why it’s often misunderstood) 
•  The difference between imagination… and genuine connection 
•  Why doubt is one of the biggest blocks in mediumship 
•  What it means to “blend” with spirit 
•  How overthinking interferes with what’s coming through 
•  Why sensitivity is a strength, not a weakness 
•  The subtle shift from trying… to allowing 

👤 Who this episode is for:

•  Anyone curious about mediumship and how it really works 
•  People who feel intuitive but struggle with doubt 
•  Those developing their connection and wanting more clarity 
•  Listeners who feel there’s something more… but can’t quite explain it 

🌱 Mentions & ideas:

•  Blending with spirit 
•  Awareness vs thinking 
•  Trusting first impressions 
•  The role of the mind in mediumship 
•  Sensitivity as a gateway, not a limitation 

⚠️ Gentle note:

This episode explores spiritual and intuitive experiences. Take what resonates, and trust your own perspective and journey.

✨ Get in touch
If you have a story, experience, or idea you'd love to share on Soul Sync, I’d love to hear from you.
📩 Email: hello@jasonpaulmedium.com

🌐 Website: jasonpaulmedium.com

If you enjoy the podcast, please take a moment to leave a review — it really helps more people discover the show.

Transcript

– Introduction

Charlie Kelly Medium 0:02

Hello to you and welcome to the Soul Sync podcast. I'm Jason Paul and it's lovely to have you here. In this conversation today, I'm speaking to a medium called Nathalie Legrand. And Nathalie is someone that I've known for quite some time. I've come uh cross paths with her even on a number of courses and watched her work, and there's such a beauty and authenticity to the way that she does her mediumship. So Nathalie's come onto the podcast today to discuss her journey into mediumship and the fact that it wasn't forced, it was much more of an unfolding for her. She also spoke about the fact of how her awareness has developed over time and the importance of experience, trust, and refinement of the connection between us and the spirit world. We covered a lot of ground in this conversation. We also spoke a lot about what mediumship really feels like and about the blend between imagination, feeling, and knowing. And one of the big things that I've experienced we talk about is how the mind can interfere when you overthink or uh find yourself just trying to place the evidence in your brain rather than just giving uh to the sitter even what's coming through. We also discuss trust versus doubt, and one of the biggest blocks in mediumship, and actually in our lives generally, from reaching our full potential, is that of self-doubt. The struggle of is it me or is it spirit, the on the one million dollar question that has plagued all of us mediums at some point in their journey, and learning how to trust that first impression and how over-analysis really does weaken the connection between us and the spirit world. We spoke in this conversation in quite some detail about the role of the mind. Um, I've often looked at the mind as the enemy, like it's something that I'm trying to get shut down. But that can actually distort, interrupt, and uh it kind of makes you question everything. Mediumship, I have found, really works best when the mind is quietness, awareness is expanded. Um Natalie also discussed with us the concept of blending and what that actually looks like in practical terms. So this episode is a great one to listen to if you're unfolding your mediumship, if you're wanting to develop your connection with that of the spirit world. And we also discussed as well, which I thought was quite beautiful, sensitivity being a strength. So often we get told as we're growing up in our lives that sensitivity is a problem and it is something to be proud of and it's something to be embraced because quite often that's your gift. So we cover a lot of ground in joy. So, Nathalie Le Grand, welcome to the Salt Sea podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Thank you, thank you for having me, Jason.

Charlie Kelly Medium 2:53

Oh, well, it's lovely to have you on, and I'm very glad that I we had a little run through how to pronounce your surname in the most uh nicest way possible. I got to practice a bit of my French accent there, which is very nice because I'm going to Cannes in a few weeks. So uh I must get the practice in now.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Good. But you're going to what part of Canada?

Charlie Kelly Medium 3:13

We're going to Cannes. Do you know what? I wish I could tell you where, but we're not quite in Cannes because it's a 10 millimeter, you see. Oh no, Cannes.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

South of France. Okay, got you, the big movie thing.

– Welcoming Nathalie Legrand

Charlie Kelly Medium 3:28

Yes, we're going. Well, I'm going there in an Airbnb with my uh mum and brother, which should be very nice. So I will practice my uh French on the run up to that. So you are a lovely human being and a medium, and you are someone I have had the privilege of spending time with and seeing work at on courses. So I know we're gonna have a really interesting conversation today because there's lots of things here in the show notes that you kindly wrote down for me, which I just know are things that people listening to this podcast are probably racking their brains with every day. So, you know, to start with you then, I guess who are you beneath the mediumship, Nathalie?

SPEAKER_02 4:16

You have a few hours in front of you.

Charlie Kelly Medium 4:18

Yes, so I I have all the time in the world. Okay, it might take a while.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Who I am now, I'm just a simple human being, having a human, uh, spiritual being, having a human experience, and like everyone else going through life, through life struggles and ups and downs. And yeah, I'm I'm just someone who's passionate about mediumship. I always say mediumship is it's not what I do, it's who I am. And I I really have this passion. But besides that, I'm just a regular human being, like every one of us, having the best time of my life on this beautiful planet Earth that we are on at the moment.

Charlie Kelly Medium 5:00

It's even quite an interesting statement, isn't it? It's not what I do, it's who I am. And how long did it even take you to get to that level of understanding?

SPEAKER_02 5:12

That's why I proudly say it. No, no, it took me about say until I reached a certain age. I would say I'd been, you know, owning who I am for the last 15 years only, and really, really 100%. You know, it started slowly, but I'm owning 100% who I am for the last, I'd been owning it for the last, I would say, eight to nine years. Yeah. So it's a while to, you know, re remove all the layers, the protective layers that we tend to put on as we grow up, as we evolve in life. And I guess we all do that. Layers of protection. And those layers make us forget who we are.

– Her journey into mediumship

Charlie Kelly Medium 5:55

And it takes a little bit of a interesting layers of protection. It's you know, sometimes it's water, who are we protecting ourselves from? Because sometimes it's you're protecting yourself from actually living your true potential and so on. So, you from what I understand in the show notes, you came, you are French, we've cleared that up already. Yeah, but you came from a very rational left-brain family. So, how did kind of mediumship or the spirit world first even come onto your awareness?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

It started as long as I can remember, actually. When I was a child, for me, I didn't see really the difference between the living or spirits. For me, it was the same. I remember the first time I, well, it was my mom who reminded me of it. I one day she came to tuck me in bed, and I told her, say, Well, you know what, grandma is here, and she would love to. Your grandma was her grandma, my great grandma. And she said, What are you talking about? And I started to tell her what she was saying, and then she, you know, she was embarrassed, she didn't know what to do with it. So she said, You should not talk about those things. Time to go to bed, you know, subject close. So it's been something that's been with me as long as I can remember, except that as I grew up from a left brain family, I said, Okay, I need to stop this because my mom kept on telling me, stop saying that, stop doing this. And so I'm like, okay, if I want to be loved and accept it, I have to get into to become who they want me to be. So that's where I stopped talking about it. But I never stopped the connection, actually. Never.

Charlie Kelly Medium 7:27

Was it that your sort of do you think your parents believed in it, but they just didn't want you sort of not fitting in, as it were, or or do you think it was just they didn't even, it was just like, you know, stop doing that. It's, you know, what are you doing? And there was no belief from them at all.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

I don't think they even asked themselves the question and they didn't even want to ask themselves the questions. You know, when you don't control something, when you're scared of something, the best way to avoid it is to ignore it. If I if I don't talk about it, it's not there. Isn't it how most people live their life? If I don't pronounce the word the words, it's just like if I don't pronounce the word death, it won't happen to me, you know. Some people like that at IKE, they just didn't want to raise the question and whether they believed in it or not. They just said, stop talking about this. This is gonna make you sound silly. And so I I I did what they said. I but I never stopped the connection, never. They were my secret secret friends that I was playing with, that I was having fun with, because I always thought that they were funnier and lighter than the living, the true living. They were quite boring or dramatic. I thought the spirit world was much funnier.

Charlie Kelly Medium 8:44

Well, it's not hard to be on a higher vibration than the people down here, is it?

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Exactly.

unknown 8:50

Exactly.

Charlie Kelly Medium 8:51

Being ever the optimist, but yes, we are a very dense vibration down here on the earth.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yes, and we tend to be very dramatic.

Charlie Kelly Medium 8:59

Jeez, oh, yeah, especially sometimes, uh, especially my twenties.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Exactly.

Charlie Kelly Medium 9:06

I was very dramatic in my twenties.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Yeah, so so so was I. I became, you know, like a regular teenager, and then I I said I don't want to hear them anymore, I don't want to see them because I didn't know how to handle it. So I went through that phase where I tried to shut it down actually, to really so that if I if I don't pay attention to it, it will stop. And it worked for a while. Well, yeah, mostly it worked until it came back. It always comes back because it's who you are again. So if you are a medium, because I believe that mediumship is something you're born into. I think it's everyone has it, obviously, but some have it more than others. It's more intense, it's more pronounced, and I think it always comes back to you. It always catches it catches up with you.

unknown 9:57

Yeah.

– What mediumship actually feels like

Charlie Kelly Medium 9:58

So you were have having these experiences, you shut it down going through, you know, that that particular part of your life. But as you said, it's you know, it was very difficult to try and do that for you. I I you know, I I sometimes wish to myself I'd kind of had those experiences younger. You know, spirit was something that I was so adamant that it didn't exist, I went on a search for proof that it did exist. I came at it from a totally different angle. But I did a what I was almost looking for reasons. No, it doesn't exist, you know. But it it's you know, my story, I've said it before. My my granddad was a medium, but I never took a blank well, I did take an interest in it, but I never really sort of drilled down, and I was always looking for that sort of one piece of irresputable evidence that proved existence. And when I did get it, then you know that's when it all opened up and whatnot. So when was it when it came back on your radar? Because you put something very interesting in the show notes, which was in 2010. You were, and you know, I'm not gonna take the story away from you, I'll let you tell it, but you you went on a trip and you had a profound experience, and at this point, you put down that you you know wasn't truly living who you were. So just so tell us about that, because that sounds very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Yeah, so I went on to live my regular life. I became a journalist, and I mean, I studied journalists, I worked for history books, and like you was trying to prove that in my way that what I would was uh what I was feeling did not exist. It was just my imagination, like my mom said, and like everybody said. So I'm like, let me prove it. And so I was really working hard at it, trying to say, okay, I'm no medium, this is just you know, BS. And uh and then I was uh I I got say I had my children, I married, I got married, I had my three children, and each time the funny thing is that each time I gave birth, my mediumship came back stronger. Interesting, isn't it? Each time the six months to a year after giving birth, it came back stronger. I don't know if it has been studied, but there's something with with that. There's some must be something within it. Anyway, so anyway, I went on with my life and I ignored my mediumship the best I could. And I got sick when I was around 40 years old. I got sick, and suddenly I found myself on this trip in Sedona, Arizona, and I was not feeling well. I decided to go, you know, on a spa day. And in that spa, there was this little, you know, in Sedona you have all these weirdos, you know, all those that gives you reading and do those things to you, healing, blah, blah, blah. And between massage, you had a little garden when you could rest, when you could walk, you know, and there was one for the woman and one for the men. And I was on obviously in the woman's section. And as I sat on a bench at one point, there was a gentleman who came and sat next to me. And he was looking like most of the weirdos in Sedonas, you know, with a big beard and all those turquoise necklaces, and you know, and but he had such a gentle smile and a gentle way of looking at me. And he said to me, You're sick, right? I said, Yes. And I started to explain what I had. And he said, Well, no, it's not what I mean. You're sick because you're ignoring who you are, and that's what makes you sick. And I'm like, What are you talking about?

Charlie Kelly Medium 13:27

And he said, Yeah, I'm just You were thinking, Oh, for goodness sake, I've got one thing wrong with me. Now you're telling me there's another thing wrong with me.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Exactly. He's like, I said, What is that? And and so he said, No, you're sick simply because you are ignoring who you are, and you're you are at a point where you have to make a choice. Either you keep on going the way you are, like ignoring who you are and teasing everybody besides yourself, or you decide to endorse who you are, to open up to who you are, to the totality of who you are, to use these gifts that you have to help people out, and then things will change. And I was like, What is he talking about? But it's he there was something with him, such a love, such I was, I believe that that day I got really touched by spirits. And wow, little did I know that he was not there anymore. And so when I went to the reception, I asked the girl, say, Who was this gentleman sitting next to me? Because I want a reading with this guy. I want to have a session. I don't know what he's offering, but I was I want a session with him. And he said, What are you talking about? There's no guy. You were in the woman's section, and I would have seen if somebody was going through this. So I will never know, I guess, who this gentleman was. I tend to want to keep my story in, you know, for me, he was like an angel, I don't know, a guide or appeared just that day for me for to put me back on track. But I will never know, or maybe he was someone who is from there, who got lost. I don't know. But I know that after that encounter, I really shifted my mindset and I started to think about what he said. It was like imprinted within me, deep within my soul, every word, every color he was wearing, everything was really deeply imprinted within me. And after that, life shifted completely for me because I started to ask myself those questions. So, why am I doing this to myself? Why am I ignoring who I am? Why do I keep on you know, swimming, swimming against the current? Because that's what I was doing, and that's why I was sick. Everything was a struggle, and I was unhappy, obviously. So everything shifted after that.

Charlie Kelly Medium 15:44

It's very interesting. Did was you aware of the fact that you, you know, wasn't living your own potential? Because it kind of feels like to me, you know, why would you intentionally do that? And this is, you know, uh I but I guess it begs a question for me on, you know, so often so many of us aren't, you know, stepping into our power in one respect or another. And I think some of the time we're not even aware that we're actually doing it because we've become accustomed to looking at life through a certain lens.

– Imagination vs real connection

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Absolutely. Absolutely. I wasn't aware of it, so that's why this gentleman came through to me, reached me uh to show me that I was completely lost and I had no idea I was lost. I was struggling day by day, but you don't, I think it's a question of awareness, and I think that's part of our journey as a medium, as sensitive or healers, or whatever is it that you do in this field. I think the the discovery of self is the first step if you want to unfold whatever gifts you have. And the discovery of self comes with awareness, asking yourself the right question, asking yourself every day, do I feel good at the moment? What feels wrong in my life? What feels right? And for me, it's all about contraction and being open. And if everything feels like it's a contraction, like you are again swimming against a current, if you are something is wrong. Something is wrong. Because if you are really doing or being who you are, everything flows naturally, everything is just uh goes naturally with love and peace and serenity, and so I think, but we we really need to ask ourselves these questions, and these are simple questions that we can ask. They are simple.

Charlie Kelly Medium 18:00

Well, they they sound like simple questions, but I I think a lot of the time it it takes to get to a certain point to really sit down and look at things, especially if you're unhappy. I think a lot of us aren't even honest with ourselves. We don't want to sit down and look in the mirror, you know. We'd rather lie to ourselves and you know, make out that these things that are happening in our lives are outside of our control and what we're suffering from is bad luck or unfortunate, you know, it's just the world that's causing these problems, or it's my boss last Thursday, you know, he's such an asshole, um, or whatever it might be. But in all seriousness, it's you know, I think to myself, well, am I and have I lived in my true power? I think in some areas, you know, absolutely, but I think there's other areas where I still have limiting beliefs that I need to work on because I sort of know that it is possible, and I've even had the spirit world recently tell me it's so funny. So I was on a course recently, and the court the it was a prophecy week, and my nan and granddad they love to come through, and I love them coming through in readings. And my nan said to me, and this had been said a few weeks before, but I'd sort of just discounted it that apparently a new man is going to come into my life. And this my nan proceeded to tell me many times throughout the week what I must do and mustn't do in this situation, you know. Don't scare them away, Jason. Make sure all this time you go in calmly, make sure that you know they see the softer sides of you, my nan. So very lovely advice. Don't know where I'm going with this, but she said to me that look, you need to look at these things, you need to look at your belief and whatever. So I feel like the spirit world had to come and sort of slap me on the face with that. But you know, we do go down these rabbit holes in life. So you, you know, decided in 2010 to listen to this advice that had come through. You decided to start stepping into your power. What did your mediumship start to look like from then onwards? I imagine it had flow. I imagine it had pace, Natalie.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

No, not from that day. Oh, it's no, I wish I wish no, no, it's a journey, right? We all journey, and we have to be patient with ourselves and gentle with ourselves because it we are that's why we're here. We're here to learn and to evolve, and it doesn't happen, you know, overnight. So after that, well, I started to open up a little bit more, but it still took some time. So I started to work as a medium, obviously, but I was not, I was still having doubts like, am I creating this? Is this my imagination? Blah blah blah. So I started to work with the Akashic records. That's how I started. So that was the beginning of my journey because I thought, you know, if I work, I can say the Akashic Records said it. It was easier than said your aunt or your grandma said it. So I just kind of hid behind the Akashic records, which by the way, I discovered and became a passion of mine at that time because I I just discovered, you know, I'm an avid reader, I'm an avid learner and reader. And so when I discovered this huge library of knowledge, I was like, oh my God, I just need to sit to meditate, get up there, ask questions, and I had the answers. It's fascinating. But of course, in the middle of those answers, Spirit World was also answering me. But I didn't want to, I wasn't trusting myself completely. So I hid behind the Akashic records, showed me the Akashic Records said this instead of saying your grandma said this.

Charlie Kelly Medium 21:30

But I can understand it's almost like it feels it was it feels to me like when I was hiding behind the tarot cards for ages because it was easier. Yeah, scientists.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

I'll take responsibility. If you're wrong, the cards are wrong. The Akashic is wrong, you know.

Charlie Kelly Medium 21:45

It's not me, it's the spread, you know, it's the cards. They haven't been energized correctly.

– The role of doubt in mediumship

SPEAKER_02 21:51

And it's all coming from a lack of of trust, obviously, towards the spirit world and towards myself first and foremost. And then slowly I unfolded. And then when I was doing the reading, suddenly I surprised myself saying a few times, oh, your father is here and he's saying this. And I was like, why did I say that? And I was like, you know, like spirit can push you sometimes to dare say. And and then I started to say, okay, I'm not that bad. I mean, I, you know, it's okay, it's working. And then it's slowly but surely I started to, you know, I'll do the Akashic Records and the Mediumship in the same reading. And then I started slowly but surely to divide the two. So this mediumship reading and Akashic Records reading. And then I think everything really did the trust thing because I needed to work on my trust like we all do. You know, like mediumship is about trusting uh the spirit world yourself. And it really came, I would say, just before COVID or in the middle of COVID, where I started really to sit more. And that's where I really started to unfold. And then the big discovery, as you know, was Eileen, my mentor. Eileen was really, she gave me that trust. She gave me that trust to dare. And and everything changes after that. So it wasn't unfolding. It wasn't unfolding, a slow unfolding.

Charlie Kelly Medium 23:15

And it is, it takes a long time, you know. I yeah, I it's very much a journey, it's uh rather than a destination, isn't it? The Akashic Records, because it's gonna be because I I've got an understanding of them, but I find them fascinating. What's how do you understand them and what do you understand them to be?

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Well, for me, the Akashic Records is just the invisible intelligence surrounding us all. And we are surrounded by this invisible intelligence, and it covers all subjects, everything beyond our own possible mind and knowledges. And it's just out there. We just need to get there, ask, and it will be given. That's what Jesus said, right? And it's exactly it. It's just ask and it will be given. Ask the information and it will be given to you. But obviously, to get there, you need to be able to silence the noises and to, you know, to work with the power, to work with the because for me to reach it is the same thing, is to get into the power, to get into that zone where your own thoughts are put aside, where your own ego, your own thoughts, you don't really exist anymore. You're just a receptacle for the knowledge is to come through. And what I understood about the Akashic Records for doing it for all those years, because it's been a while now, is the more like with everything in life, the more precise you are in your question and in your intention, the better the response will be. And that is what I needed to learn all those years. Because it takes it takes training, like you would with everything. But that is for me the secret of the Akashic record to be really precise, to have clarity about what you want to ask and why you want to ask this. And if you have that clarity, the answer would be very, you know, easy to get and uh with the same clarity.

Charlie Kelly Medium 25:16

Because it's uh I've always understood them to be like records in regards to past lives, but I suppose it's like everything in the world is every bit of knowledge or anything that's been developed or whatever lives within some consciousness, and you know, it makes sense that we can dip in and dip out. I've never done that, to be honest with you. And you're making me, as I'm sitting here, I'm thinking, why have I not done that as a thing? You know, I could do with some answers right now, like where's my business guide? Like, you know, hello, business guide. I could do with some help right now. So you suppose.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Let me finish this. Everything has a record. So every person, every piece of furniture, every house, everything, every shrimp behind you everything has a record. Everything, every everything that is living has a record. So it's just yeah, information about everything.

Charlie Kelly Medium 26:11

Without asking, obviously, you know, you can tell us whatever you want, but how how would you tend to use them? How have you tended to use them to for people to understand, you know, what records are you uh delving into these days?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Well, I use it, I use it. I I created my own protocol after years and years. I've been doing this for 15 years. So I've been, you know, using and creating my own protocols that I'm still evolving with. And I use it a lot in coaching. I do a lot of coaching, of spiritual coaching, where I really the goal is to realign the physical, the emotional, the mental, and the spiritual. Everything, you know, comes from your soul, and you need to realign everything. And once you realign everything, everything is flowing, everything is easy in your life. And it's I've been giving those readings for 15 years now in coaching, and it really gives amazing results. I've done more than 15,000.

Charlie Kelly Medium 27:05

So it's oh my goodness, you're up there every two minutes.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Not 15,000, sorry, 1500. So 1500.

Charlie Kelly Medium 27:12

There were lots of records.

– Blending with spirit explained

SPEAKER_02 27:14

So it's I use it to look for each individual that is coming from coaching. I use it to look at what blockages they created in past lives, in this lifetime, what is in their way, why is the same thing happening to them over and over again? And why do they keep on attracting the same guy, the same girl? Why do they seem to, you know, stall in their work and get lost? And it's really, yeah, it's about everything. It's about your health, it's about your past lives, it's about what you, your habits, your belief system. So they give me the answer of all that, but I use the Akashic records. I actually it's the soul showing me their own Akashic record. So imagine you're my client, your own soul. I'm gonna ask your own soul. I'm gonna ask Jason's soul, could you give me all these answers? What is in Jason's way? What is blocking him? What's going on? What happened? Like, and they're gonna tell me, okay, five past life ago, Jason made this choice, and it's he's still working it to this day, he's simply not aware of it. And the minute you're aware of what you are working on, the blockage you're working on, you can shift it. It's just again, question of awareness. But most people are not aware of what they were doing, like 12 past life ago, obviously, that's that's where I come in thing, just to help them a little, to remind them. And the moment you tell them the story of how they created this pattern that they created, 12 past life, but something happens in the body, they just feel it, they feel a shift of energy. And after that day, they just change their choices in life, and things tend to go back to place. So it doesn't happen with one session, but it's that's that's really good, nice work.

Charlie Kelly Medium 29:02

That's fascinating. I'm sort of sitting here to myself thinking, I wonder what my previous life blockages are, what could have happened. How does because you know I I started looking into karma more recently and things like that, and you know, it really surprised me the more I read and learned about how things that can happen, you know, not this life, but you know, a couple of lives ago, could karmically come back to you, or it could be in some way impacting, you know, like you said, the blockage. You know, that but that's just fascinating. Most people wouldn't even realize that was, you know, a thing. What have you, without you know, telling people stories here, you know, have you come across particular examples of things that really surprised you as a result of going into these over the years?

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Well, I I I cannot talk about my clients, obviously, but I I know that I can talk about me, for example. I had a pattern that that was, you know, until a few years back, to be always of service to others. But I was not being of service, I was serving others. So I want each time somebody was coming saying, What can I do for you? What can I do? And I'm like, why am I why do I keep on doing this? This is ridiculous. I was exhausted by the end of the day, serving everyone. And and then I looked, you know, like 15, 16 years ago, I started to look into it and I I understood that for several past lives, that was my job. And it was ingrained within me, within my soul. And my soul came like trying to get rid of this and tell me, no, you don't, it's you have to be of service, but not in service. Is it correct, English, what I'm saying?

Charlie Kelly Medium 30:35

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

You are off service, that's the difference. And I started to work with that. Then after I got this information in the Akashic, I'm like, okay, so I'm gonna work with it now and I'm gonna change my choices because at the end of the day, it always comes back to your choices. You are the leader of your life, you decide you are the one who decides what you want to do. And I started to really slowly shift this pattern. And now I don't even, you know. Well, of course, if you come to my house, I'm gonna ask you if you want to drink something. I'm gonna run behind you.

Charlie Kelly Medium 31:07

But you won't be running around ploughing my cushions up and fanning me with a nice banana leaf and some grapes on the sides.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

No, no more. So, see, that's a little example. Another example can be, you know, some people have a fear of flying or a fear of driving. Yes. Other a person who couldn't take the highways, she was obsessed about getting on a highway. So it was terrible for her life because she was taking all the small roads, she would never take a highway, and she couldn't understand why it was where it was coming from. She tried PL, she tried all those, you know, regular therapy, nothing worked. So she got to me, and we understood that something happened two weeks, two, two lives before this one. That on the highway, and it was the minute she got it, her soul said, Okay, she changed it. It's yeah, things like that.

Charlie Kelly Medium 31:58

Fascinating. That's fascinating. I think my mum needs to come to you. She won't, she will never go on the motorway. And actually, I don't think I want any income. No, she won't. She won't, but she's only passed her test about two years ago. I was her driving instructor, actually. Yes, well, she she won't go on the motorway now, but to be quite honest with you, um, I was following behind her only yesterday. She said, Oh, will you follow behind me back home so you can tell me how I'm doing? And I said, You keep going near the central reserve, you need to get more in the centre. So I don't think she needs any encouragement at the moment to be on the motorway. But maybe soon. Maybe soon. So you said in, and and I think this is another, you know, really valuable point, especially to people listening to this podcast, you know, starting to perhaps open their mediumship, sit for spirit. But, you know, and I've come to know this that mediumship is very much a journey of healing. And, you know, I think developing mediumship, there's nothing like it. If you want to find out, you know, what areas of yourself you need to work on, start developing mediumship because it will show you instantly. But, you know, how does mediumship in your view actually help someone to heal, you know, what from your experiences?

SPEAKER_02 33:22

From my experience, I would but proving the survival of the soul beyond the physical death is what is the best way you can heal someone because once you understand that what's the worst that can happen in life? Death. Hello. I mean, even death is is an it's an illusion, but there's not real death, nothing you know can happen that can be terrible. Losing a loved one is terrible, but you'll see them again. You know what I mean? So it's once you understand that death is just an illusion. I mean, you have healed most of you know your problems. Because what what else can you prove? I mean, and and that's what we do as medium, evidential medium is proving every day the survival of the soul, you know, through the evidences that we bring through from their loved ones on the other side. And so that's what I would I would say.

– How the mind interferes

Charlie Kelly Medium 34:21

It's very empowering. It's you know, I when I find the I have to sometimes stop and if reflect on this myself and think that, you know, all that and it is a massive thing, you know, the biggest thing that when you tie or look at a lot of people's life, it's death, you know, fuels all sorts of crazy behaviour. Because, you know, if you well, it was the this was a big thing for me. It was for years I couldn't really understand what was the purpose of life. You sort of, you know, build, build, build, build, build, build, build up to get to a certain point. And uh, you know, I managed to do that, then I thought, well, what the bloody hell is the purpose of all of this? What am I doing this all for if if one day I'm just going to uh pop me clogs and that's it done? I wouldn't say that I'm I'm not scared of death anymore, but I am not wanting to in some days actually. I must say, I do sometimes think, oh, it seems like it's so much easier up there. Just bing I could go to New York perhaps instantly, no problems, down on Fifth Avenue on a Monday when it's sunny. But I wanted to ask you because one of the biggest things I think that I've struggled with, and it was in your show notes, is about trust and being able to trust the spirit world and be yeah, and and just trust in general is such a big one in mediumship. And you know, I even think now, where am I with my mediumship? Well, it's I I am trusting, I'm very trusting, but then I'm still in that stage where I can get thrown off because I get in my head I'm trying, that creates friction, or you know, I get a bit of evidence, ding, up there to the brain it goes, rather than it just coming through. And I was actually speaking to my brother about this last night because I said one of the strongest pieces of evidence my dad could ever bring through if he wanted to bring this through, would be I walked into his back about 12 years old with a hot chocolate in Boston Airport, and he was furious, absolutely furious at the time. And I would said, if someone's if he brought through through a medium hot chocolate in back, that would be such strong evidence because you would know I'm not anymore because you used to be like I would certainly not bring this evidence to you because I'm like, you're very bring this evidence, you're gonna say I just made it up. So yes, perhaps that wasn't the best thing to announce the soul thing, but it would be great because it would show the medium was so out of the way because even the evidence in itself doesn't sound logical, so you know it would be coming through. But you know, how did you because it's a long journey trust? You know, what does that word mean to you in mediumship?

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Before I answer this question that I love, I want just to say to bounce back on what you said earlier. What's the point of being alive? Is just to the point of being alive this lifetime is to have this amazing experience. And that's how we should take it as an experience, as having fun, make the most of what we have here. So that's what I want to say before uh moving on to the trust subject. The trust subject, yeah. To get to trust, you need to trust yourself first. And to get to trust yourself first, you need to know yourself. Going back to this awareness to work on yourself. I believe that the only way to become a good medium is to work on yourself. And it's a lifetime work, obviously. But going back to this awareness, if you work on yourself, if you get to know yourself, every part of yourself, the shadow part of you, everything, then slowly but surely you're going to start to trust yourself. And then you, if you trust yourself, you're going to trust the spirit world. And I would say that the minute you trust the spirit world, I mean, everything is unfolding in your medium ship. So for me, that was the biggest shift in my medium is the minute I started to I trusted them before me. And then one day Eileen told me years ago, she said, Well, Natalie, this is doesn't make sense. You trust them, but you don't trust you. So you mean that they shouldn't trust you neither. I said, No, no, no, no. And then I I I changed the way I I, which was such a good remark. Like Eileen knows how to do them. And yeah, so it's just working on yourself is the best way to start to trust yourself, know yourself first. Spend years knowing yourself. And I'm really surprised nowadays, especially, and I'm sure you have witnessed it at AFC. Now you have young people or coming, they spend one week at AFC, they come out, they're a medium. Bum. Yes, this is insane. I mean, I've been doing this for it's like you. We've been training for how many years? Working on ourselves, going through the hardships of life, because you have to go through shit. I'm sorry, to you know, experience life, to get through out of it. And I'm I'm so surprised. You see, now they spend one week at AFC, they come out. I'm a great medium. I'm like, no, you need to work on yourself. It's not about practice, practice, practice, it's about practicing with yourself.

Charlie Kelly Medium 39:19

Yes, it's well, you do see it, and I think I think it's encouraged in this world that we live in now, in the fast-paced world of people just wanting to learn instantly. And it, you know, it does take a long time. And even with myself now, you know, I have moments where I think to myself, give me my day job any day, and I'd go to do a reading sometimes, and I'll get all nervous, and I think, What the what the hell are you doing? Why why are you getting like that? And then it's it it does go back to, you know, you do have to it's funny what you say, you make light of it, but you do have to trust yourself before, you know, even be getting to the point of the spirit world. And you know, I remember times when I would go to do a reading and I I know I had got to do one in a few minutes, and I'd think, right, come on, charge up, charge up, you know, try to get the spirit world. I need as much power as possible. Please be there for me, help me to get out the way, all the usual lines, and then sit there and I'm in some sort of state of tenseness, and well, it's never gonna happen, then is it? It's yeah, and you need to learn to get out the way. But that is difficult because in any other area of our lives, we, you know, we have this illusion that we want to be in control, and to trust is difficult. But trust, I think the the journey of trust, I think it takes time because first of all, you need to believe, and then it I think it comes to knowing, and then you reach this other sort of stage of evolution where you do get there. But you know, I don't think I'm someone that gives trust away easily to man, maybe that's an issue I've got in other areas of my life, but to the spirit world, it doesn't come along easily, Nathalie. It's uh something that's uh taken time, but you know, you need to sit, don't you? That's that's one of the key things. Sitting and sitting regularly.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Sitting regularly, this is key. I I sit twice a day. I love it. For me, it's as important as drinking and eating. I love to sit. It's just yeah, my moments with myself, with spirit, with all there is. And and one thing that really helped me with the trust, building my trust is trends. Actually, trends is really it was a pivotal for me moment when I started when I discovered trends. Because I first trends is my passion. I love trends. And it it changed everything because you really have to learn to surrender in trends. And that's because without surrendering, in trend is nothing. And it's like, you know, you you are training yourself with trends to become a bit of a medium because as you surrender more and more, you trust more and more, and you witness things that are said through my trance. I could not possibly say this myself because I'm not smart enough.

Charlie Kelly Medium 42:05

Oh, I think you are.

– Sensitivity as a strength

SPEAKER_02 42:08

That's how you start to trust because you say if they talk to me like through me, like this, it means that my only job to be a good medium is to get out of the way, as you said. And I found lately that to help me get out of the way is to find joy, lots of joy in each reading, to be excited about meeting spirit. I'm like, who am I gonna meet this time? Who is it gonna be? What story am I going to you know unfold over there? And if you turned your anxiousness into joy, into excitement, like who am I gonna meet? Like, you are gonna meet someone to have a coffee with. You're gonna be excited, right? Except if it's someone you know and you don't like. But in this case of spirit, it can only be someone you don't know. So it's like a new discovery. And I always say I'm excited for each person I'm meeting on the other side. And I cannot wait from the day that I will have to meet them in in person if I can say this.

Charlie Kelly Medium 43:07

You can. I think it's gonna be it's like I can only imagine what it might be like a big gathering and a big welcoming coming home.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Imagine the number of friends you're making on the other side. It's exciting.

Charlie Kelly Medium 43:19

No, and do you know what? It's when I think about it, even when my dad was unwell, I could feel the amount of energy in that room with him. And I thought he's having some sort of welcome party. I can feel it in the room, the vibration of it. But it's yeah, I could understand trance, and it's something that I do want to do more of trance, because like you say, it just doesn't happen. If you haven't fully surrendered, you're not gonna bring through anything. And do you know one thing that made me laugh actually was on a week recently, because I remember the first time I did trance and I sat there and I started speaking, and I remember Eileen in a most beautiful way said to me, She said, Oh, sometimes it's more authentic, you know, if you don't if you talk when it isn't really. Um, and I was watching someone else do it. And I thought I was doing chance, and now I realize no, that wasn't trance at all. That was just some kind of subconscious speaking. But it's I I can totally understand having done a bit of trance why it excels the medium the well, the mental medium shift. Tenfold, but you know, I will I want to do more of it because it's you know, firstly, just such a beautiful energy to sit in, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Yeah, and Eiley is so good. She she she's the only one I I I learned it with, and the only one I would ever learn trends with because she's just well, if I start with Ali, I will never stop.

Charlie Kelly Medium 44:40

She's my I know all you're doing now is making it, but you'll never get on one of her weeks again now because we just keep talking about how great the lovely Eiley Davis is. But she is, she's great at trance. And if you want to get on this year's trance week, you'll find that you can't at all because everyone's booked it.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

I stopped talking about it. I I stopped talking about it.

Charlie Kelly Medium 45:01

So I know, I know. We're just fully promoting it, but it is a great week. So I guess to sort of bring us to a close, then a lot of people listen to this podcast who are trying to develop their mediumship. What advice, you know, single bit of advice takeaway do you want people to walk away from today? Or bit of advice that you'd like to give people in regards to their development?

SPEAKER_02 45:31

I would say again, start with yourself, start to know yourself, sit with yourself, get to know yourself, sit in the power. That's the first step. I would and get a good mentor. Get a good mentor that you're gonna learn, you know, uh, because this is the basic, it's psychopyramid, like with everything. If you don't have a strong base, you're gonna burn yourself very quickly. And you really need a strong base. And to get a strong base, you get to know, you need to know yourself, to take the time to know yourself, to sit regularly. And it's not gonna happen overnight. It's gonna happen through years and years of practice, of discovering yourself. And that's the way you're gonna become a great medium. But uh, I mean, but my definition of a great medium is helping out the most as you can. That's my definition of a great medium. For me, being a great medium is not the number of people you do, it's not how much you make, how much because if you want to be rich, don't be a medium because that's not the right profession. But to be a great medium is to be of service, to really bring healing to people, to really help them out and make a difference in their life, to make them understand that there's no such thing as death, and that love is the bridge to everything. And you need to be that person as a medium. If you don't understand love, yourself, gentleness and gratitude and all those things, I mean, you're in the wrong profession. I think it's uh to work on those, work on these traits, work on yourself, sit and just become aware of the energy around you, because that's the energy you're gonna work with. If you're not aware of the invisible world, which the energy around you, you will never be able to work with the with the spirit world. So you get to know where your energy stops, your physical energy stops, and where the psychic energy, the you know, spiritual energy starts. And to do that, you need to sit with yourself for a long time to understand it. So and I know a lot of medium, it's funny because it's a conversation I had with another medium a few days ago, and she was referring to someone who never sits in the power. And I'm like, how do they do that? If they never sit in the power, and this person said, and you know, that's where I understood the difference. The energy was flat.

Charlie Kelly Medium 47:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

You know, when you have when you're in the presence of someone who sits in the power, the energy is high.

Charlie Kelly Medium 48:00

If you they emanate the power, you can feel it, can't you? In the way they talk and communicate, even in the voice, the vibration.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Exactly. And you have someone who never sits, yeah, they're gonna give some evidence, but it's gonna be flat straight, you know, not long after they give a few evidences. And it's uh so that's that's the the advice I would give is just to get to know yourself, get to know the energy around you, get to work with the energy, and please keep on these positive energy like gratitude and gentleness and all those traits, life and and the words of Eileen Davis, just focus on the feeling of love.

Charlie Kelly Medium 48:45

I love it when she says that.

– Letting go of control

SPEAKER_02 48:52

And uh it was who was she she was very nice and everything, but she it was more competitive, mediumship. Yes, yes, and it was and and she she was very actually I worked, I'm gonna consider him. I worked with Mavis Pittila before getting to until Mavis uh passed away, then went to Eileen. And when I worked with Mavis, who was great, she's great, medium, amazing medium. So and she taught me so much too. But with Mavis, it was more it we we were not talking about the love effect. And it works for each person has a different, you know, energy they react to. And for me, and Mavis was great, except that for me, I needed this love factor that I was missing and that I found with Alien. And the day I had this love factor, the gentleness and the love factor, everything changed. I'm I mean, I'm competitive, but not in mediumship. I would never be competitive in mediumship because I believe that each medium is different and each medium is bringing something that another medium cannot bring. So we're all unique and we're all unique in the way we practice mediumship. And so there should never be a competition. There should never be a comparison when it comes to to mediumship. Because that's killing your it's killing your mediumship. If you compare yourself to somebody else, missing you don't trust you. You don't trust your unique way of working. And I think you should never compare yourself, never.

Charlie Kelly Medium 50:17

No, I think comparing yourself is very limiting. And I, you know, I've done it a lot in my life. I've been a salesperson for God knows how long. And I'm, you know, always comparing myself to the next person on the league table, especially these days, to a young whipper snapper. And I think to myself, look at me, nearly 40, still going.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Um I love your style, by the way, when you work. I love your style because you're exactly the same when you work as a medium, than when you talk like that. And I think that you have this lively persona because that's you, that's your uniqueness. And and I think that's what you know makes you a great medium too. Is this you are you? We should always be the same.

Charlie Kelly Medium 50:58

I think I only come on volume level 10, though. I think I'm only made for loud, loud rooms, for rooms with a certain you need to be proud, that's for sure, because you can reach the bottom. Yes, I can. I I I don't come in uh quiet mode, and I think I only come in loud mode. But do you know what? It's been a blast. Navali, thank you so much for coming on to the SoulSync. And if you do want to find out more about uh Navali Le Grand and all of her fascinating, lovely work, you can go to our website, go in the show notes. But thank you for coming on to this.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Thank you.