The Future of Modern Spiritualism…. — With Donna King

In this thought-provoking episode of Soul Sync, Jason sits down with respected medium and teacher Donna King for an honest conversation about the current direction of modern spiritualism, the role of governance within spiritual organisations, and the deeper question of what mediumship is truly meant to be.

Together, they explore the growing tensions many sensitives and mediums feel between structure and spirit, authenticity and performance, tradition and evolution.

This is not a conversation rooted in conflict.
 It’s a conversation rooted in care.

Donna shares her reflections on the principles of spiritualism, the importance of integrity within mediumship, and why many people are now questioning whether spiritual spaces still reflect the love, openness, and spiritual depth they were originally built upon.

Jason also opens up about his own observations and experiences within modern spiritual circles, leading into a wider discussion about ego, politics, healing, responsibility, and the future direction of spiritual communities.

At its heart, this episode asks a bigger question:

What happens when spirituality becomes disconnected from spirit itself?

What You’ll Hear

•  Donna’s reflections on the current state of spiritualism 
•  Governance, structure, and the challenges facing modern spiritual organisations 
•  The tension between politics and genuine spiritual connection 
•  Why authenticity in mediumship matters more than ever 
•  Jason’s own observations from within spiritual spaces 
•  The difference between spiritual performance and spiritual presence 
•  The importance of humility, openness, and emotional intelligence in mediumship 
•  Whether spiritualism is evolving — or losing its way 
•  What the future could look like for the next generation of mediums 

Who This Episode Is For

•  People interested in mediumship and modern spiritualism 
•  Sensitives navigating spiritual communities 
•  Those questioning the direction of spiritual organisations 
•  Listeners seeking grounded and honest spiritual conversations 
•  Anyone curious about the deeper purpose behind mediumship 

Gentle Note

This episode contains open discussion and personal opinions surrounding spiritual organisations and mediumship culture. The conversation is intended to encourage reflection, dialogue, and understanding rather than division.

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📩 Email: hello@jasonpaulmedium.com
🌐 Website: jasonpaulmedium.com

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Transcript

— Episode Introduction

Charlie Kelly Medium 0:12

Hello and welcome to the SoulSync podcast. It's me, Jason Paul. Now, today's conversation is all about spiritualism, and spiritualism can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Here in the UK, it is a recognized religion and has been for a number of years. And, you know, I always think that we're very lucky in this country to um have spiritualism recognized as a religion, and in this country it's um called the Spiritualist National Union. And my granddad, um, who I've spoken a lot about in this podcast, who's um kind of I feel like I've taken over from him in the world of mediumship, his passing is very much um kind of what activated my mediumship, and he served churches. Um, you know, I'm only coming to realise now just the sheer amount of churches he did serve, actually, um, because I I'm getting clues along the way from him in the spirit world and um also from people that I meet. So I first came into um the world of mediumship really upon visiting the Arthur Findlay College, and the Arthur Findlay College is controlled by the SNU. The SNU has a president and um that president is elected, um, and that is the person who um heads up the um churches ultimately and the college. So in this conversation today, I'm speaking to Donna King, who has a lifelong connection to the Spiritualist National Union, and she's been attending spiritualist churches really from childhood. Um she went to the college for over 20 years, it's actually the very place where meet we met, and so many um like-minded souls do meet. You know, it's not mediumship is one of these things that isn't accessible in a lot of places. So the college um especially and the churches means a lot to people, you know, it's people's religion, people have dedicated their life, and you know, I always think that spiritualism is very unique in the fact that you know we're serving the spirit world here, and what does the spirit world teach us? It's all about love, light, and truth, and that is what I ultimately stand for. That is what the SNU is meant to stand for. Um, the principles of such. Everything I ever want to do in my life is in search of truth. You know, I've taken over my lifetime um enough untruths, and I think in the world we live in now there's so many of them that truth matters, and that's what I'm ever in the quest of myself.

— Welcome & Introducing Donna King

Charlie Kelly Medium 3:06

Donna King, welcome, welcome, welcome back to the soul sink. Hello, Jason. Oh, it's lovely to have you. It's lovely to have you. Obviously, you've been a massive influence on my mediumship, I'll say from the get-go, because you put things very matter-of-fact, and that's what I love about you in the way that you communicate spirit is it's well, it's spirit firstly that you're talking from, and just the way you put things. And I know that you've come on today, and you you know what we spoke about before was beautiful when I said, please come back on, please come back on, and you've agreed, so it's very nice. You've come on today to talk about matters close to your heart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

In relation to spiritualism and uh our principles and the SNU.

Charlie Kelly Medium 4:09

I guess you know, I want to say from the get-go that, you know, I feel that obviously there's elections coming up in the SNU, and you know, I never really talk about this kind of stuff myself on the SoulSync about, you know, I'm not one to get involved in politics. I'm more one, much more one to get involved in fairy tales and put together an intro that immerses you somewhere that I'm trying to make you think isn't on planet Earth, but I'm not really someone to talk about that. But I wanted you to come on today because firstly, some of what you're gonna talk about, I have seen myself, and you know, I think that everyone, you know, should have an opportunity to share their views. And I feel that what you want to come on to talk about today is spirit, the SNU, and you know, the heritage of it, and what was it, and what you know is it now, and where is it going, and how all of these kind of different threads, you know, kind of come together. So let's start at the beginning. The SNU, what does it what is that to you?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Well I mean, I first attended an SNU church when I was six or seven years of age.

Charlie Kelly Medium 5:29

I was and I'll say SNU, if anyone's listening, by the way, it's the Spiritist National Union that run the Arthur Findlay College and the also run all the churches, and it is a religion in England, and that's what makes England so much of a hub for spiritualism, the fact that we recognise it as a religion. So, on that note, Donna King, you first came to you at six years old.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Yeah, yeah, because obviously I'd already been connected with spirit from like younger years, so I was taken to a spiritualist church, and that really was it where the churches was the first introduction for me, and then that continued to have probably didn't happen for a few years after that, but then it continued to happen through my early years and through my teens, and then you know, on and off through my whole life, you know. I may add that the SNU has only been a recognized religion for a number of years. When I was a lot younger, it wasn't recognised. That was quite a marking point in um our religion. Um, faith, religion, whatever people want to call it.

Charlie Kelly Medium 6:34

Well, what was it before that?

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Because I I well it was just it was it was just the charity

— How Donna First Entered Spiritualism

SPEAKER_01 6:40

in itself, I say I suppose. I don't know. Oh, like an institution, a charity. Yeah, but it wasn't recognised as a religion. That was quite a marking point for us when that was then changed to a rec recognised and now it is obviously a religion as well as a charity. Well, yeah, religion being a bit of an opposite word for me, but yeah, a faith, a believing and knowing, you know. But yeah, for me that was really the case. Obviously, uh, I mean, I was asked what religion I was. I may have said this before when I was 11, and spirit just said spiritualist. So I just said I was a spiritualist and and you know, just rolled with it, but then we'd look in the dictionary to see what that meant. I had to actually look in a phosaurus for that one, I believe. Because it was the bigger book. Well, yes, Google showing my age.

Charlie Kelly Medium 7:33

Well, no, you didn't have Google back then, you know. You'd be no, we did not in your local library, and you know, I was very bad at returning my library books, I'll tell you that. I used to have a I was always had ones that are overdue or the the ends would be mangled or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah, it was like the library was a weekly occurrence, really. But yeah, that's I mean, to me, I mean it's it's being spiritualist for me, I could feel the emotions rise in my chest. For me, it is everything, you know, it is the heart of who I am, really, because all I've ever really sought to do through my life, being always connected with spirit, is serve, you know. Would get into the purse too much personal, but you know, I was the one that always would go out of the way to befriend the one nobody else wanted to be friends with, always really in a way being led in that, you know, with numerous stories behind every single one of them, really. Being the story of my life until I got to a point where I was like, right, we're not doing this anymore. Like, you know, always being the healer and uh, you know, thing. But my younger years at primary school, they they they were not such harsh lessons in in helping people and befriending them, but that was just because I was always spirit-led, you know. So in a way, I have always, in a the weirdest way, always been of service. Obviously, you know, I have come on to sort of speak on the the issue that I had at college, been attending the Arthur Findlay College since my daughter is 26, so I think she was about three years old. So let's just approximate 20 years.

Charlie Kelly Medium 9:16

A few more well I because I how I met you, you know, was obviously at the Arthur Findlay College, and it was at a time in my development, and I say, well, development, unfoldment, whatever you want to call it, but I'd been on either one or two courses, and I came for a weekend course, and it was I will never forget it was Colin Bates that was our tutor, and oh, the the beauty and the elegance of Colin and just his humour and how he put stuff, it always um stood out to me. But Colin and and many, well, I think nearly all the tutors of that weekend are no longer at the college because of you know, which is sad, but that's how I first came to meet you. And as I've got to know you, you know, through the unfoldment again of my mediumship, yeah I, you know, I know that you, you know, the spirit world and the SNU and spiritualism and the college that you rightly said that you've attended for you know 20 years, you know, it all matters to you very deeply, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah, um and yeah, I've served on the committee, you know. I tried to, well, I went out of my way to help Peterborough Church while being on the committee, halted the circle, never once taking one penny for petrol, anything, while just separating with four children under the age of 11 as a single parent, uh struggling in that financially, finding myself in a very different situation, and never once, you know, sought to take a penny from them because the church was struggling. It was a fight to keep it open. It did end up closing, unfortunately, but putting my only money into it, baking, you know, making the cake. And and I and and what I say, I am rightly so, because at the time the church needs it, you know. So, you know, when given the opportunity and life's allowed, I've I've I have gone out of my way in other ways, you know, to to help help help our churches. But yeah, I mean, we can think that things obviously with me uh being banned from the college for making reference to the food in that it appeared like F rabbish shit. Can I say that?

Charlie Kelly Medium 11:48

I mean you can put you can say whatever you want. I can put one of those uh e-ons on it where I think it's explicitly at this moment. Unfortunately, you've become over 18 only on this episode. Yes, um, yes, but you can say what the bloody hell you want, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, and I and I'll take no shame in swearing, you know. It's no, I don't I love a good money swear, but my mum tells me off for it.

Charlie Kelly Medium 12:10

But there's nothing wrong with a you know, a swear as long as it's uh appropriate, it's not offensive, it's not you know, whatever. I don't go round test scones, you know, yeah, you know, nah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Um yeah, as long as you're not being offensive in it. I mean, and when I said it, it was kind of in like check and shock and jest at what we were being served, because you know, let's be honest, it did resemble um it was like, what is that? As I know now, they now label the foods that people don't know.

Charlie Kelly Medium 12:40

So so what are you saying happened here so I can understand this? Well, people listening can understand this clearly.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Well, obviously, you are you're you're closely linked because I'm never one for standing in the queue, none of us are ever that hungry there. Um, you're talking about the Arthur Finlay College, we're on a course at lunchtime, um, and getting up at the very end when everybody's finished, you know, collecting their food. And yeah, you and me got up, and it was what is, you know, I was like, what the is that rabbit shit? Like, what is that? And laughing, and it was just said very openly. And um, oh, he's like, Oh, yeah, he said he's uh he said I know it's crispy chell beef. He was actually agreement that actually what like what it were thing because it was the only option. If I remember rightly, that was the only option, and I was a bit like Jesus, here we go, another meal not eating, you know. And I don't want to get into the moaning about the food because you know it wouldn't be this probably the worst week for the food, but you know, for all the years I've been there, it is not the first time that I would feel that you know it was of poor quality, and it is what it is, isn't it? It is what it is, you know, it's in the grand scheme of life, it's a small thing to moan about.

Charlie Kelly Medium 13:53

Well, yeah, so what so what you're essentially saying is we're on a college course, yeah. We we you know the food was really, really not great, and not to the point that it wasn't, you know, just not nicely, we're not we're not sort of sitting here as food critics or Michelin star chefs here. No, and I really

— The Shift Happening Inside Modern Spiritualism

Charlie Kelly Medium 14:12

don't care, yeah. You know, we're we're talking about you know, and I the college for me is a place of spiritual sanctuary, it's a but it's a place of being grateful, it's a place of appreciation, you know. You understand that the uh food is what it is, but what we're saying, what Donna is saying here is there was an issue raised with the food by her, and then that was that, and please continue the story from there on in.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah, well, then there was another student who asked me to go up with him while he spoke to the manager, and he was fairly enough upset, you know, and so you know he made that known, and then we went and sat back down, and we had already I had already taken myself and a couple of students to the shop whereby we bought some other foods, which the staff were lovely enough because they was actually in agreement that how bad it was that they weren't actually eating it, the dining room staff, I must add, because obviously I do talk to the staff a lot, you know, all of them, you know, from the cleaners, etc. You know, I've always hold conversation and and and have had good relations with them. And so that they did, you know, because they're good people, put the food and stuff in the fridge for for a couple of other students. Obviously, I won't mention their names. And then we were reprimanded when we went into class about swearing, and and that was it. It felt like the matter was over with, you know. I reiterated to the stuff, you know, the young lad. And I just feel it just feels very tired to me for going into it because I did say to him, you know, I didn't swear at you. And he was like, No, I know you didn't, but I just had we have we told we have to report swearing. And I just I was like, okay. I said, just as long as you know, you know, I've been coming here for this, but I would never swear at you, you know, like and you know, reeled off some of the dining room staff's name, just you know, like and how much regard I've got for them because there's times when I haven't wanted to eat what is on offer in previous times, and you know, the staff will go out, go and get me a roll and some bread and a bit of cheese or something, you know, just so that I've got something that I do feel like is palatable. And I say that like this, I feel awful saying that, but it's true, you know, like or you know, more appropriate for me for a lunchtime, you know, there's some heavy eating there, you know, like there's three full cooked meals you can eat a day.

Charlie Kelly Medium 16:24

Well, yeah, you know, normally I when I go there, I put on a couple of uh well, let's say this, me trap my jeans aren't doing up normally on the drive home. Um and I'm you know, I'm feeling bloated for at least a couple of days when I sort of depressurize back into the atmosphere of my home environment.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah. Well, unfortunately, the obviously they're escalated because uh as you know, we were due to attend a trance course a few several several weeks later, and two weeks prior, I got an email stating that I'd been banned from the college, and that's where we go on to you know the being told by you know one member of staff that actually it was the CEO that had made the decision, and then being told by the CEO that it was this the dining staff that had been made that decision, and then by another member of staff telling me that actually no, it wasn't their decision, it was that person's decision. And anyway, then we went into emails of exchange because after phone calls, I was it was I was told numerous phone calls I was left sort of hanging on two occasions, and then it was like no, which was really ill fair because I was willing to sit down, discuss with people, and have you know, have a conversation and sort of like let's talk it out because it was not grounds to be banned from a college, which is the hub of our religion, let's be honest. That's the hub of the religion, you know. You know, I can only attend one church, which I have served at Norwich. You know, I've done a service there prior many years ago now. You know, it it just wasn't justified. The action, the the you know, the cause did not warrant the the the action whatsoever. But anyway, you know, we went on and then CCTV was miraculously deleted or gone, even though that had been specifically requested from the start. And here we are, really. You know, I mean, for all intent and purposes, I don't agree and haven't agreed with anything for a lot of things that their CEO has been doing, in my own opinion, prior to that. And I should imagine because I've never done a course with her, that that that may have been part of the fact, or I shouldn't or well, she's totally convinced herself of that to be true. I don't know. I do know from members of staff have made group tell people to let me know that it was not their decision, which I totally believed anyway, because I know uh that I've always taken the time to speak to so many staff, and it is very upsetting. Well, it's very upsetting for me. I've adjusted to it now. It's okay, but obviously it is you know, I'm not the only victim at this point that is uh now not that I'm a victim per se, but uh you know, not the only person really that at this point has obviously had to leave, been made to leave, forced to leave, banned, sacked, whatever whatever domain or you may come into.

Charlie Kelly Medium 19:27

Well, I guess what we what we're talking about here, you know, to cut through the noise, is the current president, the chairman, Jackie Wright, you know, to people that are kind of familiar, like we said with the SNU, the Arthur Findley College, so on. Jackie Wright is the president. This coming July, I believe it is, there is an upcoming election. You know, I'm gonna say this, all views are our own, etc., etc. However, what Donna is talking about here is an incident in which the food was quite frankly appalling, as I saw myself, because I was on the same course, and you know, that that was raised, matters were dealt with as I saw it, and then Donna came to be banned from the college, and you know, from what I have observed, it you know, to me it feels completely unholy, unjust, totally out of line with the the principles, the values of the SNU, what spiritualism is all about, I feel that the matter has been dealt with not only in totally the wrong way, I also feel that legal, you know, I guess what I'm trying to say here is what even when you raise things like issues with the the management, the complaints process or whatever, things are not being dealt with properly, is what you're trying to say as well. And even, you know, your experiences and what we're trying to, and I guess what the whole theme and thread of this episode is about is about talking about the SNU, talking about your experiences of being bad and what that's led you on to discover as well, because there is an issue there. There is an issue whereby there's been a mass exodus of tutors because it was about a couple of years ago now, there was a social media post that went out where all the tutors walked out over an employment matter which is still yet to be heard in court, which obviously we can't discuss because there's ongoing proceedings. But you know, from what I understand of it, you know, there's serious questions to answer, you know.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

So on that note, along with along with other obvious, obvious litigating factors of the AMG live, the AMG, the live means. And the ref the the admittance to the berating of a student and you know the long disclosure and the paying of you know the money to uh you know compensate uh said student, the alleged, and I will say strongly alleged because there is no evidence of it assault of a member of staff, and even in it being alleged and potentially that never actually happened, which you know is highly as much likely as it is unlikely. I don't know, you know, Jackie Wright personally, uh but the fact that it's even come up, that somebody would even suggest it, that in that you know, hundreds of thousands of pounds are not accountable, according to spiritualism link, money, you know, in excess of 30,000 pounds being given to charities that are actually worth a considerable amount more than our charity, you know, in excess of 90 million, you know, all of these things can be found on Spiritualism Link. It goes on, the train goes on of factors, and it just leads to question of, you know, would how is that how is she as an individual even suitable to be held? Uh can be even be considered a president for the SNU when even in my own situation, I took personal responsibility, and I have got a room. There are numerous people in that room that I could ask that could was witness to my accountability for that, you know, my apology. And I know the staff know that I apologized, and I was, you know, spoke to my spoke to the dining manager at the time, Courtney. And I have actually since, you know, held conversation with a couple of members of staff via phone phone calls in relation to it, my I had. So I know there is obviously uh conflict of words, people accused us doing the same things that they haven't done, and it goes on you know, people being sacked for you know wanting to do their jobs of that that they was already doing and being told no, you're not doing that now. I mean, the there's the the the the momentum of the fact that you know people are calling it a

— Governance, Politics & Spiritual Organisations

SPEAKER_01 24:18

dictatorship. Um and I do want to remember, I'm not gonna say it, and I know you know I've already come up against some some you know adversity with this, but I want to add, and I feel very emotional as I say it, she is a soul with a purpose. So whether we, you know, as humans believe that what she is doing is right, and whether how wrong that may be, you know, and some of the very, you know, what I would feel, my heart would feel very ill and poor behaviour to, you know, to to to other to others, you know, other other people, she is and you know, does believe that what she is doing is right. So her soul has come along to what I believe is to sort of create a destruction so that things can actually be real proper, be bit real, rebuilt properly. So for me, in that there must be some honour for her as a soul in taking that brashing. Because whether you know she believes that she's doing the right thing and she can't see, you know, that she knows that there's mistruths in things that she does and says, and then then that's that's her that's her journey, you know, that's her story. And I want to I want to be very clear on that because I'm not here being a Jackie Wright basher and hater. And I feel I do feel very emotional in that because you know the the the emphasis of our our our faith and religion is to be loving, you know, being peace and love and understanding. And you know, that then means to be understanding of those, even those that call us cause cause us, you know, disharmony, pain, whatever the case may be. And you know, I think people have very much lost sight of that with you know the situation. And I know a lot of people have been hurt, but you know, that is part of their journey, and we do know, you know, the worst the face, you know, you would never you're not learning when it's all good, you you're learning when it's painful. And so those uh I am absolutely positive, and I have been so through some severe traumas in my life, but I am absolutely positive that when I when I leave, because I do know the immensity of that love and peace cannot be touched here on on earth that is in spirit, that actually it will probably be those that have caused me the most pain in this work, in this life, the ones I thank first, because they are the ones that have taught me and so given me the most as a soul to grow, learn and develop. And that's what we're here for, isn't it? I mean, if if not, I don't I don't know what we're doing it.

Charlie Kelly Medium 26:36

Well, I well, I have I I do have to say, you know, I I personally feel that the treatment that you have received from Jackie Wright and from the SNU to just be so just wrong on so many levels, morally, ethically, I want to say legally, you know, at the end of the day, you know, we have to be careful what you know what we discuss here, but there is an ongoing legal case of you know a good 20 tutors who are currently, you know, have got matters ongoing um civil cases against the SNU in the college. And I think there's a number of these, and I think that what there has been, you know, I'm not someone who buries my head in social media, as you can probably tell by the lack of social media content that I'm currently putting out and the forever mediumship videos that I forever keep promising that are going to materialise at some point, but that to one side, you know, what you're raising here is, and there's been lots of talk about it online about serious allegations about you know things you would just not expect from someone who is leading such an institution.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Absolutely. I mean, but we are in a time of change, we are in time of inconsiderable change, you know, even in the way the spirit moved through me sometime is sometimes is beyond my own company. Still I'm still adjusting to this, you know. But we are in a time of considerable change, and you know, and Gordon Higginson did prophesise. I'm gonna bring it out, I have said it on on Facebook, but Gordon Higginson did prophesise that the S SNU's name would be destroyed. And without going into it, he basically said that the you know the churches would be renamed centres of light. And I was only told that I wasn't aware of that when I was trying to reassure somebody that you know that the things would come, you know, to do full circle because Gordon had showed me very clearly in a deep trance state, if you like, prior to working, just light re-entering the building, and it was entering all of the walls of the college, and it was and it he was reassuring me, and I feel really emotional than that, reassuring me that change, you know, change would would come. And this was prior to try prior to being me being kicked out. Um, and I'm laughing, but you know, I I say it thingy, Bob, you know, it's been one of the most heartbreaking times. Like yeah, I that took house to meet is home. You know, the first time I attended within the first hour of being there, I had the coming home feeling, which wiped the floor with me. And so I have a connection to the building, per se, as some of us do and some of us would know about. But yeah, you it's it's it's it's challenging times for the SNU. You know, I do feel that there's potentially more to come. I know that we're obviously now in a position of people voting for the re-election, and there is, you know, there's strong, strong pushing from what I can see from my Facebook for Julia Realmont. I don't know her personally, but I have met her, and she, you know, brief briefly at the college, and she did seem like a nice lady, but on um word of people's whose integrity and morals I do trust. Um I trust their judgment, and so you know, she'll she'll you know that I can vote because I didn't renew my membership quickly enough after last council uh after it last ended, but you know, she she'll she'll have my my my my standing vote if you like from uh from the sidelines. I just know that with the change, regardless, spirit have made it very clear to me, because I can feel them coming in there, that there you know what needs to be said is that there is change on the horizon here that leads to you know a greater body of people in lead of uh you know of the college, and because you know, we need you know, always always the nominated trustees on the board, and then we need the circle above running it. It needs to be bodies of people because then we could never fall into this position again. And I just feel very strongly here, because I think with spirit they've made it very clear to me that that that needs to happen now because we need to move into a time of change. And it's clear that there's always, you know, one person always they you know, through the years prior to Jackie Wright, you know, there'd always be something said about whoever was in charge. Oh, never to this, you know, extent, well, ever. I mean, you know, for somebody that said she was going to keep churches open, you know, we've got quite a few sold, and now the barbonell's being sold. So I don't know, you know beggars' belief really that the that that that it's all going on and what is happening with that. I have actually, and I will say it because it's of no matter, I have done numerous freedom of information requests to try and get, you know, just some data and some facts to see if we can put some more stuff down into facts as to what is actually going on, you know, just to make some answers clear in my own head, because some of these things are, I know I should put possibly put it down, but it matters to me. The building matters to me, my faith matters to me, and it's the body of what I do and who I am.

Charlie Kelly Medium 32:10

And um well, the the the the college, the SNU means a lot to a lot of people, the history of the building. You know, if you haven't been to the Arthur Finlay College before, it is like a building like no other. It's you know, the closest thing I can you know liken it to is Hogwarts. That is the only thing I can ever think to compare it to, because everything outside of it really is a muggle, aren't they? You know, yeah they are. So they say they are, and it's and it's got an energy about it, it's got a significance about it, and it's you know, for that reason, I feel that one person at the top of such an institution, given the type of institution it is, it's an educational institution in in some ways, that college, and even spiritualism. I don't feel that it makes sense for one person to own that, to be at the top of that. I feel that that then you know shifts power balance and whatever. It's it's needs to be a committee, a body of people, whatever however you want to dress it up, but it can't be one person because you know, I just I I feel that it's it that that's the only way to ever run something in in a way is to have a kind of democracy.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

That's yeah, you know, I do know that this will be the case. I trust that fully because I've I've kind of seen it, so I've seen I've seen this change, and and I trust that, you know. I don't know when, how we get there, what happens. I do know that I'm willing to sort of sit back and you know argue anybody, you know. Well, I must say, you know, that that all of this is the case.

Charlie Kelly Medium 34:01

Well, yeah, and I know that you know it it's almost like I kind of feel that you're too scared to sort of talk out, seems to be the common theme of what I'm finding, you know. If you dare speak out, ask any questions, yeah. If they don't they don't like questions, that's what you know, for for an institution that likes to have answers to questions, they don't seem to have a lot at times. I will say that, but they do claim to have all the answers, but they can have the answers to none of the questions. It's all very puzzling, very puzzling, but you know, make of that as you will. So, you know, as you said, you know, the reason I wanted to get you on is because you know what you wanted to talk about today is the SNU, the Arthur Finlay College, it means a lot to a lot of people, you know. It I know I know the college means a great deal to all of the 20 tutors who have left, you know. I'm sure, I'm sure they didn't, I'm sure there's a story to be told there. Of course there is, and I'm sure when the time comes, they will speak that. But what I'm all about here on the Soul Sink is truth. You know, this is the truth channel, I like to think. You know, again, I don't proclaim to have all the answers, but I like to think that what I'm saying is true, at least to me, and I think that's what's important, and you know, I think that people need to who you know have a membership, who you know have the ability to have a say, you know, every voice matters, I think, and you know, and I I feel that people should be encouraged to you know discuss these matters, you know, it's it matters to people, and like you say, it's a lot of people's religion, and to me, it's the closest thing I've got to a religion, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yeah, and I it's you know, it's it's it's true that that that that it needs you know there needs to be considerable change, you know, it isn't just about the way it's led, there needs to be change in the way, you know, because of the the enormity of the change that's going on in the world, there needs to be change. People are learning to honour themselves first, and so that needs to then move into them old stigmata ways of you know, oh, you mustn't get up and leave the room. And I I admittedly, I know there is people that will get up and be very disruptive in doing so, and you know, and people look at them with judgment, like what's your problem? But you never know quite what's going on with that person in that moment, you know. There needs to be more honouring, honouring the self and allowing people to do that because it just feels like what do you mean by honouring the self?

Charlie Kelly Medium 36:30

You know, people what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 36:33

How do I feel? What suits me in the moment? Am I comfortable with this moment? Do I need to leave?

Charlie Kelly Medium 36:38

You know, some people would mistake this for being selfish.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Well, they would, but that's that's big very much because obviously that's generally the way of the world. It's an old to me, it's is moving into an and I'm very old-fashioned. You don't you you don't have to see the the wall behind me to know well,

— Authentic Mediumship vs Performance

SPEAKER_01 36:55

yeah.

Charlie Kelly Medium 36:55

You don't even have a kettle, do you? You just boil it on the hob like one of those, uh and it makes the noise like you wouldn't be staying at my house of a kettle that sounded that loud, I tell you.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

I do prefer the whistling kettle, and some of them sound like a bird, but anyway. See, I read that psychically.

Charlie Kelly Medium 37:13

See what I did there?

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah, I'm after a new one. That is that you very did there, actually. But yeah, it's it you could seem disrespectful, but you know, we must remember that the in the current time of and the way what's going on in the world and how people are moving through their lives and how things are changing a lot for everybody, you know, mentally, emotionally, you know, within the with just in general in the day.

Charlie Kelly Medium 37:38

But there's a lot going on in the world right now, isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 37:40

People are struggling, you know, it goes on and on and on.

Charlie Kelly Medium 37:44

I think you need to really just protect your energy at the moment. And when you talk about yeah, take care of yourself, the way I see that now is individually, you know, I do what I want to do, and I know this sounds crazy, but you know, if I what if I've got set in my diary and on that day I'm just not feeling like doing it, I do really try and you know not do that, but I always say to myself, I'm gonna do what I feel, and some days if I'm energetically feeling a certain way or whatever, I do just do what I feel. You know, I'm a nightmare with ADHD as well. The amount of um theatre shows that I've left at the interval because they haven't kept my attention enough, that's crazy, isn't it? But honestly, you put me in a theatre seat because this is an audio experience, so many people aren't gonna realise that I'm you know a very tall person and I've got much longer legs than I have upper body. And you put me in one of those West End theatre seats, and you know, I'm well, I'm I'm not comfortable. Let's say from the moment I've sat down, I'm already at discomfort.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

So we know you and me are very alike like that, you know. Yeah, it's very like that.

Charlie Kelly Medium 38:48

I well, there's a lot of shows it's got to keep my attention. I think the ones that keep my attention, the musicals, because there's music, stuff going on. Where because the other day I with a few people from work, I went to see the woman in black, and I didn't realise it's just two people acting out a story, and it just didn't keep my attention at all. And although it was a bit jumpy at points, I was just sitting there going, Oh god, this is so boring. Like, because it just wasn't that's really bad to admit that, isn't it? You're good at doing that. I know it just wasn't keeping my attention. So obviously, I didn't walk out, I didn't watch it, but I just thought, oh, it's not really I can kind of yeah, you know, it's just sort of it's not really not going on, it's just two men and a couple of props. The music they're very good, they were very good, don't get me wrong. But well, but boring, but yeah, well, it wasn't keeping my attention and points it was, but I was trailing off.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

So look, I guess I do just to sum it up. I do feel that in the art of learning to love oneself wholly and truly, you know, you're honouring yourself in any given moment is the key. And and that, you know, even if it means oh god, that looks like rubbish shit, you know, like even if it is that in jest, you know, because it was my humour, it was my way of feeling like, oh my god, it's another meal, I'm not eating, you know. And I well, yeah, well, you know, you know, fair marrying stuff, but but yeah, I think it's imperative at this time, it's it's also a big massive factor. It seems to be coming up a lot around me, and I just keep trying to push people to do that because that is self-love, you know.

Charlie Kelly Medium 40:27

So I guess how in usual soul sink style would you like to close this episode today?

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Well, I do believe that there is uh the SNU really is uh just been destroyed, and you know, it is a mockery, you know, of everything that our principles and we are meant to um thing, and I say that with love and peace and understanding for all, but I just do feel that that is where we are, you know, in the grand scheme of change.

Charlie Kelly Medium 40:59

And I have said it, and you know, even if the 20 teeth when the twin, I'm gonna say them 20 teachers walk back in, and you know, uh well, I would love the 20 teachers to walk back in because actually there's so many of them I really just love, you know, they're just great, great mediums, great teachers, wholehearted um individuals, and well, they absolutely will be back.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

I know my connection to spray I've been doing this too long to to doubt what I do, and that's something else that I there's a whole nother conversation, Emma, because as humans people go back to like almost like that's the way we should think. Well, actually, we're taught that we should trust what we get and what we're what you know, what we're being given by spirits. So, why then when it suits the human to to ignore that, do we do that? And why then are we not running the SNU with more honest what spirit wants, even down to the teaching, the way that's done, you know, you basically can continually make his spirit jump through heaps to say we're here and we're doing this with this individual. And I do find it amusing because I just feel there's not enough on up in spirit for spirit, entrusting that and what we get, which to me is a little bit thing, but I could go on. So, you know, it's I just I just feel with that that there is you know, there is considerable change, and even if I needed to argue and dispute amongst against them 20 beautiful heart-led teachers that have walked out and have got you know legalities going on, I will argue that it needs to change. Well, not argue, but dispute that it needs to change in the way it's managed and run, because spirit have made that very clear to me. And I know they have grow they have many other ideas about changes that need to be brought in to bring in the new, you know, the time of change, the time of the new. And I just won't go into that because we could be here today.

Charlie Kelly Medium 42:43

I just say to the spirit world, help us as much as you possibly can because goodness knows we need it down here. We really, really do.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Trust the journey, Jason.

Charlie Kelly Medium 42:54

Trust in the journey, trust in the journey. Donna King, thanks for coming on to the SoulSync.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Oh, thanks for having me, Jason.