AI Evolution
Hear from the innovators and visionaries harnessing the power of artificial intelligence to reshape our future. Topics include AI's rich history, the industries it is revolutionizing, and critical conversations about the fears, boundaries, and ethical considerations that come with this powerful technology. Tune in to learn more about how AI is transforming our world and hear the voices of those at the forefront of its evolution.
AI Evolution
3 interviews: Teaching Ai, Ai Software Developer, Ai for Litigation
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The latest episode captures lively discussions from Columbus AI Week, emphasizing how AI can transform education, business, and law. Experts share insights on AI's impact on equity and efficiency, urging listeners to embrace technology while addressing security concerns.
• Importance of integrating AI education into societal structures
• Free training opportunities provided by We Can Code It
• AI's role in facilitating business decisions and innovations
• AI.Law's focus on automating litigation processes
• The significance of prioritizing security in AI development
Exploring AI Innovations With Industry Experts
Speaker 1Welcome to AI Evolution, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries of artificial intelligence. Here's your host, Michelle Gatchel.
Speaker 2All right, I got a great episode for you today. I had the opportunity to go to AI Week, columbus, which is put on by Enterprise Technology Association, and it was a fantastic conference, and I got to tell you you should check out their website, joinetaorg, because they're putting on more this year and there might be one near you. This conference was full of amazing minds that were working with AI in some way, shape or form. You're going to hear from three of those. We're going to talk to one woman who actually teaches adults and children about artificial intelligence. We're going to talk to a man who helps other businesses by creating software, including AI, to help make the other businesses processes faster. And then we're going to talk to an attorney who created an AI that helps other attorneys create litigation. So let's get started.
Speaker 2We are here at Columbus AI Week and joining me now is Melanie McGee, and she just got off a panel talking about the security of AI, and she is with we Can Code it. And, melanie, thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me here. I'm excited. Yeah, let's start. Tell us about what we Code it does.
Speaker 3Yeah, so we Can. Codeit champions social equity through technology, and what does that mean? It means we train people in IT and tech and we help get them jobs. So we do this in a variety of ways. We have micro-credential, fast-paced courses for pretty much anyone, from people who are just learning about things like AI, through boot camps in cybersecurity, data analytics, AI and software development yeah, let me throw in software development.
Speaker 3That's how I started and then we have early career micro-credentials as well, and the cool thing about them that I love to talk about is we have many free courses that are sponsored by the state of Ohio, and I'd love to get the word out about them for employers to send themselves and employees through, as well as just general and general Ohioans can take these courses for free as well, and where can they find those courses? Wecancodeitorg.
Speaker 2WeCanCodeItorg. Write that down. Peeps, we love our free courses.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2What kind of courses can they find?
Speaker 3So they can find Prompt Engineering with ChatGPT. That's a very popular one. It's just a few evenings. It that's a very popular one. It's just a few evenings. It's instructor-led, problem and project-based, so it's fun and it's virtual, so you can attend it from everywhere. We have courses in SQL, or SQL, as old developers like me refer to it. We have C Sharp, we have Python's a new one, we have that, I think, a lot of folks.
Speaker 2Python's a new one, huh.
Speaker 3Well, it's a new one that we're offering as a micro-credential and it hopefully will be a free micro-credential for Ohioans next year cross fingers but TechCred folks can take advantage of it now for sure, and we have all sorts of stuff like that. We're coming out with a new one that is developing AI products that will be premiering in late this year November, december, that should be very popular. Yes, I'm excited about that as well.
Speaker 2Well, so you were on a panel about AI and security, and I think these are tough conversations that any business that's considering bringing AI into it need to have.
Speaker 3Absolutely.
Speaker 2So tell us a little bit about your thoughts on that, wow.
Speaker 3You know I have a lot of thoughts on that. I'll tell you my background. My background is as a software developer. So I was always the one who was interested in innovating and didn't want security tying my hands together and innovating, and didn't want security tying my hands together.
Speaker 3So I come at it from knowing that background and knowing that about a lot of developers and a lot of entrepreneurs to tell you the truth that we want to get there, we want to get there fast and we want to make something awesome, and sometimes security becomes an afterthought. When it becomes an afterthought, you're really putting yourself, the people you serve and your company at risk for a lot of issues that are concerns about privacy, security and the like. So really I look at it from a developer's lens of developing using AI at every step of the way, not as an afterthought, but bake that in to development and your roadmap for your product. Because guess what? If your product isn't safe and secure, you're going to lose your customer's faith and trust and your product, your company, will go kaput because of it.
Speaker 3So, even if you're just looking at it from that angle, I think it's a pretty important angle to look at the other issues. Obviously, are you got to do what's right, you know, is that, uh, for people if you're not taking care of their privacy and the like? So forget about finance, is it? Is that the right thing to do?
Speaker 2yeah, you know, so um yeah that's a tough one for, I think, businesses like it is. You know, Especially when you get your developers excited about something and they pitch it to the exec team and the exec team doesn't know any better and they trust the developers they can get themselves into a situation 100%.
Speaker 3It is super important to get security as part of an organization, from ground level through executives and everywhere in between. It is not good enough to just leave it in the hands of development. It is not good enough at any potential point. You really need security as the foreground for every conversation you have. It's not the sexiest, it's not the coolest and it's not the most fun, but it will keep you protected so you can do the fun stuff. Yeah, so yeah, I think having training at these different levels starting with a policy and making sure it is problem-based training which we can code it is very, very much built on problem-based training is imperative to organizations, so that it's not just let's look at videos and check a box that we took this training right.
Speaker 3Because who it's like? Did you ever see that Simpsons?
Speaker 2episode right. With the bird, you know pecking the.
Speaker 3You know, anyway, it's like that. The reality is that you have to make it interesting for people and you have to make security real right. What could really happen? What if I am a bad actor? And by bad actor what do I mean? I mean I'm a cyber criminal or I'm somebody trying to steal your information? You have to think from their perspective and a lot of people. It's hard to right, a lot of us aren't geared that way. So to really have a different angle and a different viewpoint on it, so you can fully understand what is at risk and see around corners that you might not immediately look, as super important and super important for a whole organization to get together to create a policy and to learn about why each part of the policy is important from a problem-based approach, so that it is organizationally accepted throughout, from the developer, from your accounting person, from you know, and your cyber person, of course, right To your marketing person.
Speaker 2And all the way up to the CEO Yep. All right. Well, Melanie, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much and plug it again.
Speaker 3WeCanCodeItorg All right, all right, thank you so much.
Speaker 2We are here at Columbus AI Week, and I am here with Tashara Kokani and you are with Big Kitty Labs. Yay, yeah, ai Week, and I am here with Tashar Kokani and you are with Big Kitty Labs Yay, and, big Kitty Labs is one of the sponsors for representing sponsor for this event.
Speaker 4Yeah, we are. And why is AI important to you oh 100% Like AI is going to I should say, already change so many of our lives. It's given us a lot of new ideas, given us hours back. It's created a slew of new opportunities for all of us, and that's why ai is, yeah, like we. We're very much, very much encouraged by the future and the present, and that's why we're like, we're immersing ourselves in it so big kitty lam Labs actually does offer AI services and development for businesses.
Speaker 4Yeah, we absolutely do. We have been doing AI. So I myself have close to 30 years of software experience and I was just telling this very nice gentleman that probably most of us know by now. But AI most of the basic tenets are not new.
Speaker 4It's been around since 50s and 60s, but beginning 2017 and 18, like things started moving faster and so in our case, when we started the company, we have been doing AI since 2010. That's when we started tinkering with a lot of NLP stuff, a lot of like machine learning stuff and vision and other aspects, and, of course, we didn't have access to all of these tools till almost yeah, almost like 2020 or maybe a little later. Uh, then, suddenly, the boom of generative ai has increased awareness, like there's more, more folks, more tools and everything, and uh, so that also helped us speed things up and, to your point, we realized that there are so many new ideas that are being um manifested now and we started offering our more and more services in that area helping people build decision-making products, help them deploy things faster, secure and, yeah, we are really a big AI solutioning company from last few years.
Speaker 2Nice, how can people find you?
Speaker 4Oh, yeah, that's a good question. So you can always find us on the website bigkiddylabscom, or you can always. So I joke that I'm pretty much like awake 24 by 7, so you can always shoot us an email at contact at bigkiddylabscom, or feel free to send me an email at tushar at bigkiddylabscom, which is T-U-S-H-A-R at bikilabscom. Well, tushar, thank you for joining us. Oh, thanks, thanks for having me here, and thanks to you, michelle. They do amazing work, guys. Yeah, thanks for having me.
Revolutionizing Legal Drafting With AI
Speaker 2All right, I'm here at Columbus AI Week and it's been a great week. We are on day three and joining me right now is Troy DeSette. He is the founder of AILaw and I can't wait to talk to him because reading your information sheet and how you're using AI to help attorneys with all sorts of things from contracts to deposition information is amazing to me. I'm just curious. I can't remember. I remember there was a big, huge headlines news story about a law, an attorney, who did such a thing with ChatGPT and then got fired for it.
Speaker 6Yeah.
Speaker 2So how is your company different?
Speaker 6Yeah well, we try not to get people fired. We focus on the drafting piece of it. So we don't do individual research. Instead we're focused on the speed of litigation in particular. So lawsuits to answers to discovery responses, deposition analysis, medical file analysis All those are things that are very time intense, that can take hours and hours of attorney time or staff time to do. We do those with AI. So the focus is taking about 120 hours of time out of a litigated matter standard litigated matter with our current tools Eventually getting. The goal is to get to a managed, autonomous litigation platform, essentially for it all. So we're not going into the kinds of things like brief writing or picking out statutes or case laws precedent. That doesn't exist. So that's how those lawyers got in trouble. Is they used statute? They referenced case law. It was just made up. It was hallucinated.
Speaker 6And they gave it to the judge and said, oh, this is good law. And the judge went back and researched and said, no, this is completely fake and they got sanctioned for it.
Speaker 2Yeah, got to do your homework. You just can't take what AI throws at you.
Speaker 6sometimes I tell people you got to read it before you file it.
Speaker 2Well, so tell me this, so you know, a lot of things that I do are contracts, and I saw that you mentioned contracts. You know contracts for privacy or usage of someone's image and likeness, so would AIlaw be able to help me with those kind of contracts?
Speaker 6Yeah, we do have a contract module, contract tool.
Speaker 6It's to where you're able to draft a complete contract using a dynamic conversation with the AI.
Speaker 6So you say to AI I want a licensing agreement, and then it will ask you a series of questions to get into the details of what it will ultimately draft and then piece it all together for you. So the end result is a 30 to 40 clause contract by paragraph, multi-page, that then you're able to use our system to edit each individual one or even use AI to change each individual paragraph. It's very tailored, very unique to your situation and your needs. It's different than other software out there dealing with contracts that more uses AI to compare one provision to another or use sort of basic analysis on short sections, how to write them better, how to be more persuasive. We go and do the entire thing for you and that's that's what's unique about our, our company and our product is the, the length at which we can produce output, as well as the speed. Most of the documents we do in about two minutes we're working on patents associated with it, because it's it's very unusual.
Speaker 2Yeah, um, and have you gotten backing from, like, the state board of law or anything like that for this kind of a thing?
Speaker 6Not yet. I am a lawyer, my other job- what type of attorney Litigation? Lawyer, so I've taken care of most of the funding so far for us.
Speaker 2When did you start?
Speaker 6Last May in earnest and we came out with the current version this April and I've been growing pretty rapidly since then. So it's um, uh, 40% a week or so, with with our new subscribers paying subscribers, so we do have some revenue.
Speaker 2I'm still losing money, but eventually that hopefully will turn around. Um, so it's not replacing, like Alexis Nexus or the research part at all.
Speaker 6Not yet Okay.
Speaker 2Yeah, Um. So then, um, If I'm getting ready for litigation, how is it going to help me?
Speaker 6Oh, okay, yeah, so a good differentiation. So in the sense of researching what you need and providing that to you, for the documents redraft like a lawsuit or answer, that's all done. We do all that for you, but you wouldn't put into our system. Give me an analysis of you know XYZ case, or I want a complete brief written on the idea of medical marijuana.
Speaker 5Yeah, exactly Whatever. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6But if you need a lawsuit written about enforcing rights, about medical marijuana or suing somebody for infringing on your rights or defending a lawsuit, that everything would be done from scratch from our system, autonomously for you. So you go in and you say here's my fact pattern and here are a couple of claims that I want to bring Breach, contract, negligence If you don't know, we'll help you with that, find those and you click a button and then we generate everything.
Speaker 2How long does it take to generate? Two minutes Wow, yeah, so am I being charged by the 15 minutes, Like sometimes you get charged by. Is it saving money?
Speaker 6Yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, Um it's. It's saving so much money that my target market is not traditional law firms that bill on an hourly basis because they don't want it.
Speaker 2Yeah, I bet.
Speaker 6They don't want to save 20 hours off of work. I mean, why would you want? But the firms that are focused on flat fees or contingency work mainly flat fees makes a lot of sense. Or even the big firms that have too much work they can bring this in and carve out a slice.
Speaker 5Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6Do you focus more on strategy or client base or helping your clients out than you do?
Speaker 2So you don't have to be an attorney when you sign up.
Speaker 6True.
Speaker 2And how do people find you?
Speaker 6AIlaw.
Speaker 2AIlaw, it's that simple. It's that website. It's an app.
Speaker 6It's a platform online.
Speaker 2Platform online. Yeah, okay, you can use it on your phone and do I put prompts like I do with ChatGPT, and it just comes up with something for me.
Speaker 6You can do that. We have a chat functionality, but most of our tools it's a step-by-step, two to five steps. Make it real easy for you. Tell you exactly what you want to put in each box. You put the box in and push a button and it creates the document for you, super easy.
Speaker 2So, as a litigator yourself, have you used your own product?
Speaker 6We use it all the time, do you? Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2And so give us an example of how you used it.
Speaker 6Well, I filed the first lawsuit in federal court, openly drafted completely by AI.
Speaker 2Wow.
Speaker 6We were open about it and it was good. It was excellent. It took us 45 minutes from start to filing on something that would have taken 12 to 14 hours.
Speaker 2Wow.
Speaker 6Huge, huge savings yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, Big savings. And is that? Have you had a result from that yet?
Speaker 6It resolved.
Speaker 2It did All right.
Speaker 6Choosing my words carefully.
Speaker 2All right. Well, I want to thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 5Oh wait question of how the use of AI in law is advancing or changing. Can you talk a little bit about, or do you know about, how else the use of AI in law is changing? And then the other question that I had is how is AI law changing?
Speaker 6Yeah, two good questions, and I think the first one goes a little bit to how AI is changing the industry, but also how the AI in general is being adopted by the industry and it's slow going. Lawyers are very conservative by trade. What are the risks? It took us forever to adopt email and the typewriter, I'm sure back in the day, but there is a recognition, I think, more than before, that this thing will really completely change the industry and I think more lawyers are open to it and adopting it faster than they ever had before.
Speaker 6So the other products that are on the market, or the products in general that we see a lot have really begun with the chat functionality, wrappers on GPT, as we call them, where you're doing some individual analysis, even contract analysis or contract piece of it, is more about let's take this in small bites, use this to do this, to do this, and as lawyers start doing that more, then it layers on top. Okay, what else can we do? How else can it help? I'll have demos with lawyers and they're blown away by our chat functionality. I'm like well, if you like that, let me show you what you can actually do on it, because our chat is sort of an add-on, just so you don't have to go elsewhere for chat, our product, what we're focused on, as I said, is sort of autonomous management of cases.
Speaker 6So our next step is our deeper documents maybe a little bit of brief writing, but more of document cloning and taking everything to the next level, but more of document cloning and taking everything to the next level. When I say next level, I mean we will ultimately come to a place in the law where AI does virtually everything for us, and I think that's a good thing. Is it going to put attorneys out of business? You know a question I get, but I don't think so. I don't think it's going to put attorneys out of business. You know a question I get, but I don't think so. I don't think he's going to put lawyers out of business. There's plenty to do. We're all crazy busy already. If anything, ai, especially injected into society, will cause lawyers to consider cases maybe that are lesser value than they would normally pick up right now because everything is so much more efficient.
Speaker 6So you get justice at different levels. You also have an access to justice related issue when you talk about ability for people to get into the court system or effectively litigate within the court system. So there's a lot of a lot of benefits, a lot of different directions.
Speaker 5this is headed, but kind of make pro bono law, for instance, a lot more possible.
Speaker 6Absolutely Kind of make pro bono law, for instance, a lot more possible, absolutely, yeah. I mean, I offer our product on a quasi-free basis to legal aid societies because, you know, landlord-tenant law is a great example. You have a tenant come in that's facing eviction, maybe a terrible situation. You can use our product in five minutes, have a complete answer, everything done for you, whereas you know, normally it take you two hours to put that all together. And I don't mean to say product in the sense of selling, but rather than the functionality of facilitating people saving their homes or their modes of transportation or, you know, their, their livelihoods.
Speaker 6There's a lot of positives, I think, and I think there is too much emotion in the law. I believe it's from my perspective being a litigator. I think that having more robotic thought, process and logic and this is how the process is supposed to work we're going to follow the process point by point, no matter where it leads is a good thing, because the value of our judicial system is the process itself and actually the result. So when you have AI helping out that process, I think everybody wins in the long run in the end.
Speaker 5So I love it. How about AI law Law surrounding? Ai in whatever use capacity we're talking about, do you see that landscape changing?
Speaker 6Like the ability to use it or the legalities over it. Yeah, yeah, yeah I.
Speaker 6You know, a lot of talk about the fact that we don't have um but then you you have sort of the, the usage that's on top of everything, which I think is more of where our product is. I'm not building an lr by myself. I have billions of dollars laying around um, so for us, I think it's it's a lot more open, a lot more free as far as how we're able to provide our products and not run afoul of of of the law. I don't I don't really see that as a as a particular issue, for, like what we do, and you have a constitutional right to defend yourself and litigate yourself in court anyway, same as if you read a book and then one day yourself, that's constitutionally protected. I think AI is going to fall into that same group. My thoughts All right.
Speaker 2Well, Troy, thanks so much for joining us and telling us about AIlaw.
Speaker 6Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1Thank you. We hope you enjoyed this episode of AI Evolution. If you're as fascinated with the capabilities and possibilities of AI as we are, don't forget to subscribe on our podcast on your favorite streaming site to hear more conversations with the brightest minds in the field. If you have any topics you'd like us to explore in future episodes, please reach out to us at our website, aievolutionlive. We'd love to hear from you. Share your thoughts on this episode and more on our Discord channel. You can find the link on our website. Until next time, keep your curiosity alive and remember the future of AI is just a podcast away.
Speaker 5Thank you.