Next Level Human
As humans we have a job to do. In fact, we have four jobs: to earn and manage money, to attain and maintain health and fitness, to build and sustain personal relationships and to find meaning and make a difference. Your host, Dr. Jade Teta, is an integrative physician, entrepreneur and author in metabolism and personal development.
Next Level Human
She Learned to Cry. Her Virus Disappeared? With Naomi Han - Ep. 300
What if the one lever you’ve never pulled—the one you were taught to avoid—was the key your biology was waiting for?
In this conversation, I sit down with clinician Naomi Han to unpack a wild case: eight years of stable hepatitis B labs on antivirals… then, after deep subconscious work and finally learning to cry, her viral load began to free-fall—again and again on repeat testing. No new meds. No new diet. Same protocol. Different nervous system.
We don’t shout “cure.” We do ask better questions. How do grief, abandonment, and unprocessed emotion ride shotgun with the immune system? What happens when a lifetime of holding it in finally lets go? Two evidence-based clinicians walk the tightrope between data and the messy human interior—where identity shifts, tears flow, and sometimes numbers move.
If you’ve tried every protocol and still feel stuck, this one’s going to get under your skin… in the best way.
(identity shift, emotional release, subconscious work, hepatitis B, viral load, nervous system, belief rewiring, trauma processing)
Connect with Naomi:
IG: @NaomiHanHealth
Email: NaomiHanHealth@gmail.com
Chapters:
0:00 Meet Naomi: Clinician and Healer
8:00 The Hepatitis B Diagnosis
13:42 Unexpected Medical Breakthrough
19:41 Childhood Trauma and Emotional Suppression
27:37 Meditation and Forgiveness Work
35:58 Mind-Body Connection and True Healing
42:35 Integrating Eastern and Western Medicine
Connect with Next Level Human
Website: www.nextlevelhuman.com
support@nextlevelhuman.com
Connect with Dr. Jade Teta
Website: www.jadeteta.com
Instagram: @jadeteta
Okay, welcome everybody to the Next Level Human show. And today I have something special because I'm actually here with a colleague of mine and a peer, somebody who is in the healing profession with me, someone who I've gotten a chance to get really close to over the last couple years and someone who I think story and perspective is really important for us. So my good friend, naomi Hahn is on the show. Hey, naomi, how are you? She's coming from. It's early in. Where you are, you're on the West Coast, I'm on the East Coast. Yeah, california, how are you, my friend?
Speaker 2:I'm good, thank you. How are you Jade?
Speaker 1:I'm doing, you know I'm doing okay, I I'm actually we're going to talk about health stuff. I'm actually dealing with some health stuff. I think I told you I'm dealing with, um, some kidney issues, which I'll talk a little bit more on this show at some point. Uh, cute kidney injury. I had still still sort of focusing on what that is. You and I have kind of talked about that behind the scenes. So, yeah, so that's not great whenever we're going through health stuff.
Speaker 1:But actually that's why I wanted to have you on, because you know, you and I have been going back and forth about the thing that we're going to share here for a little bit and I want to set this up from my perspective and I want to see how you feel about it too, because you and I come from slightly different backgrounds. So Naomi's a nurse practitioner. She does amazing work in that field as a clinician. I'm a naturopathic physician and have done a work as a clinician in that world, as a family care provider, but I've also worked as a counselor and a coach for most of my career and, despite being a naturopathic doc, I am an evidence-based guy. I think it's very important for evidence to be presented. I'm very skeptical of claims about healings and things like that, and when you and I dialogued about what we're going to talk about some of your health issues, I was very reluctant to share the story, and it's been what it's kind of probably been over a year since we first discussed this, or has it been, or has it?
Speaker 2:been? Was it earlier this year? Okay, so maybe more than a year. Yeah, okay, yeah so more than a year.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to, I'm going to set this up and then I want us to just go in different directions, because of course, you and I, as clinicians, have no idea what the cause of this remission or clearing or whatever we want to call it is, but we each have our feelings about this and I just want us as clinicians, and both evidence-based people, to talk about this. And so I will briefly set it up and then I'll let you sort of jump in. And so Naomi is someone who me and her connected as colleagues because she was wanting to move into a little bit more of the coaching world that I'm in. So I'm clinician slash coach. Naomi has been mostly clinician. She wanted to move more into the coaching world and we started to work together and learning from each other and she began to get into some of this next level human work.
Speaker 1:She also had been dealing with a chronic health condition that I'm going to let her tell you all about, and through this work she came to me after one of our events and said you know, I think this thing has cleared and I think it's as a result of this work, and of course I was like, well, let's not say that out loud, that's like you know.
Speaker 1:Let's be very careful to say that because, you know, cure is essentially a bad word in our field and of course, we don't know that this is necessarily cured. But it does speak to one of the things, naomi, I have seen, you and I have talked about. I have seen, since I've started doing this work, things that I would have regarded as impossible prior to doing this work, and this thing that you have experienced, I would have regarded as impossible, and so that's why I think you and I both wanted to have this discussion. So I'm going to let you kind of start wherever you want to start, but tell us about your experience, what you were dealing with and what has happened with your health as a result of the work that you've been doing over the last year and a half or two years.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. I grew up in the military Chinese family and in Chinese the health issues we don't talk about health. No one ever say a word. I just remember when I was a kid, mom always said that you can't be too tired because it's not good for your liver. You cannot donate blood, but didn't tell me why and that's all I have to go on. So during the one of a routine workout, I learned that I was born with a hepatitis B and I need to be on the anti-viral medication for the rest of my life, and that was very devastating and I always felt betrayed because no one ever delivered that message to me, not even my parents.
Speaker 2:So, um, so the work, um, so, because I I was also in the research program, I had been on the medication for a while and this research started, and so basically what we have to do in the beginning was actually to take me off the medication, so the whole thing that my body will take over to kill the virus. To kill the virus. And just to know that the difference between hepatitis B and hepatitis C is that one is in the DNA, one is in the RNA. So for someone like me who has hepatitis B, it's really rare that you can actually cure those chronic conditions. So I needed to do blood draw very frequently, actually cure those chronic conditions. So I needed to do blood draw very frequently. So it just happened that I had to do the blood draw after I changed, and that was when I made everybody head turns. My phone started ringing because the research teams had no clue what was going on with me, because when they tried to take me off the medication, my body didn't do the job. And now, all of a sudden, six months in between, I, my viral accounts, dropped six points. That is unheard of.
Speaker 2:So, and and then I I will say it's all about the work that I did throughout that training, because during the training, I discovered a lot of misguided, unconscious decisions that I made a long time ago. There was a lot of anger and sadness that I carried, that I had no idea, and I think the big things that I discovered was the fear of abandonment, and that showed up every aspect of my life. I think you and I talk about this, you coach me on that as well, so it makes sense to me. In Chinese medicine, we say that liver stores anger. Based on the Chinese medicine, based on the change analysis.
Speaker 1:So I was not surprised that amazing results showed up after I got changed. Okay, so let me unpack this, and so I want to repeat this, just so people can sort of understand and you can make sure that I get this right, because this to me is absolutely fascinating. How old were you when you first got the diagnosis of hepatitis B?
Speaker 2:I think it was early 30. I was told that I had and it's interesting, right?
Speaker 1:Because you talked about the idea that you never would have known that you had this, or you couldn't talk about it in your Chinese family, chinese upbringing. No one ever told you, so you believe you've had this since the beginning. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it turns out that it was very common in my culture. And that's called a silent killer, because most people don't know until it was too late.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so a hepatitis B viral infection. For those of you who do not know, hepatitis B is a virus that impacts liver function, and so what ends up happening is it can destroy the liver, you can get jaundice. Your liver enzymes are very elevated. You have AST and ALT, the two liver enzymes. You have to monitor those to make sure the liver is not going to get in failure, and it's not something you get rid of. Hepatitis C and B are chronic viral infections. So now Naomi figures out she has this at 30.
Speaker 1:What's really interesting about this is she goes into a study, and so you've been in this study, and as part of this study, how often do they do your viral titers? And, by the way, for those who don't know that term, viral titer just means they measure the amount of virus essentially in the body. It's a way of doing that, and they also tend to measure the liver enzymes. So they measure these two things side by side to see how people are doing. And so how long were you in this study? And what else did they measure besides viral number and liver enzymes?
Speaker 2:The base amount of CBC and. I get the test done. I think it was every four to six months.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so how many of these tests? Every four to six months you're getting blood drawn looking at your viral titers, looking at a liver enzymes, and so obviously you've had a lot of that testing done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it. When I met you, I think it was eight years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool, so you've been. What's neat about this is, by the way, just for all of you listening, what's really interesting for Naomi and I it's it's kind of rare to have someone in a study, right, so it's like we can, we can have these case studies where we go. Oh, this person you know seems to be clear of whatever this chronic illness is, but, actually being in a study with researchers watching her values, she's literally measuring these things every four to six months, and so I'm assuming, throughout those eight years of you being in this study, nothing had changed, or was it getting worse? Or what was going on with your health status in terms of the repeated values?
Speaker 2:It's pretty much just stable the same numbers over and over and over, not until I came back from the training yeah and then uh, just so we all understand, tell us a little bit about the viral medication.
Speaker 1:When did you go on that and how long have you been on that?
Speaker 2:you still on that, etc I think I've been on it also eight years now.
Speaker 1:So once the diagnosis happened, you went on the antivirals. Yes, and just for everyone to kind of understand that, from our point of view that's something that basically why Naomi does this. It basically keeps the virus at bay, the medication, so that it doesn't do damage. It doesn't kill off the virus, it doesn't cure the virus. There's no vaccine for this virus. It's basically just a medication that tries to keep the viral titers down, to decrease damage, and Naomi was essentially stable. Anything else you want to add from that?
Speaker 2:No, you covered it all, and it definitely is very unheard of for someone who'll be on the medication for that long that you actually see the viral load drop yeah, yeah, and that's the thing that's really was really interesting for me, naomi.
Speaker 1:It's like okay, so here you are, eight years, you're on the viral medication. It basically did what it did. You're pretty much stable, but you still have this disease, you know. So you're not getting worse, you're certainly not getting better. And then all of a sudden and don't let me put words in your mouth but then all of a sudden we do this, and then we've been talking about this training and I want her to describe her, uh, her sensation or her feelings around that training, or what she she says. I do remember what you said to me after the training, so we'll, I'll talk a little bit from my perspective. But then all of a sudden, you go into the researchers, get the blood draws that you always get, and you start getting phone calls being like they're the viral titer is what the liver enzymes are, what. What did they say to you?
Speaker 2:They said. They asked me what did you do exactly? What drugs did you take? What other study that you're in? I'm like nothing. The only thing differently was I started doing the subconscious work.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I started to learn how to release my emotions. I started to look at what is under the hood. What is it that I am carrying in my body with all this emotion that was stuck in my body for all this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I bet you they, I bet you they kind of. They heard that Naomi and they were just like okay, okay, naomi just went woo woo on us.
Speaker 2:Pretty much yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they're like um, okay, never mind, forget, we asked that question. Now here's. Here's what's really interesting from my point of view. When you told me this, of course I was like um, because naomi, I'll tell you all what naomi said to me she goes jade, you're never gonna believe this. Uh, my hepatitis b is essentially gone. And I was like, well, that can't happen. And she goes. Well, it did, and I'm convinced that it's from this work. And what did we me and her, basically like looked at each other, like I think it was on the phone or something. After the fact, I can't remember we're like, well, we can't tell anybody this you need. We both were like you were too. You were like, well, let's wait until the next blood test is done, then let's see. And then I was like, well, let's wait till the next blood test. So how many blood tests have you had where this result has stayed? How many, since they've essentially told you this is essentially gone, which I'll let you explain what that means, right, but how many have you done since then?
Speaker 1:maybe um four or five, I can't remember okay so we got four or five repeated measurements after eight years of everything the same. Now we've got four or five repeated measures where essentially, um, well, I'm gonna let you say what, what do the results say? I mean because when you're measuring hepatitis b right, you're measuring these viral infections I mean you're essentially saying how much virus is there, right? Um, and by the so there's a number that they give you that essentially says if there's less than this number, you're essentially cleared of the virus. And then they're also looking at your liver enzyme test. And so what got better? Did your numbers essentially go to a number that says you're clear or just very low? And what happened with your liver enzymes?
Speaker 2:so the liver enzymes is always the same. It's actually yeah, I do have to say, liver enzyme probably get better too. And I do remember the first blood draw that I got after the training. I believe it was a six point something, iu millil and actually sorry, take that back. Yes, it was before and then after. Before that and then after the test, the training it was in, it dropped six points. And then I continue to drop. Right now I am at a point. I am 0.01.
Speaker 1:So 0.01 viral titers, basically, so interesting. So you're at six prior to the work that we did and, by the way, we'll talk about this work because I know you all are saying what did you and Jay do, Naomi? So was that six and then essentially dropped six points or down to one, and then, from since then, you've continued to go down. So it's continued to get better and better. And now correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is a level of .001 or whatever you're saying. It's essentially that there's no virus there. Are they telling you that you're essentially cleared of this? Is that essentially? You know, I know we can't say cure, but what are they saying? That means?
Speaker 2:That means that there is a very high chance that I can continue to clear that 0.01, whatever that number is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a very small number.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's definitely unheard of. I think there was only 1% to 2% population able to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and so it's really interesting because you are in a study. The question for amigos, and I'm sure the question for everyone else, goes is that okay? Well, maybe this medication started to work all of a sudden?
Speaker 2:The issue with that, though, is that okay? Well, how come it didn't work for the previous eight years, exactly? I haven't changed the medication since I've been on it. It's not a lot of medication.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I also think people are going to ask us okay, well, you know, because we as humans me included, by the way, I want to be like well, Naomi, surely then you changed your diet, you ate differently, you did something different, you took different supplements, Like you know, what did you do differently? So anything there that people, because that's what they're going to ask and they want to know.
Speaker 2:The only ask and they want to know. The only thing I did differently was became a next level human coach, and it's ideal. I did a lot of crying, definitely for sure. For the longest time, I did not know how to cry and I did not know how to actually release my emotions and if you ask me anything, that's the only thing I can. Honestly, I like it throughout this whole journey okay, well, you know that.
Speaker 1:See, this is why I love having these conversations in a more formal way, because that is, um I haven't heard you say that before in that way that the one thing that was different, um, is that you began to cry, which you know. It's really interesting, naomi. This is it must be interesting for you in the American culture, you know versus the Chinese culture, right? Because in America women tend to cry Like it's. You know, lots of women cry in America and not many men cry in America. But one of the things I think you taught me about the Chinese culture is that that's not or at least in your household too that talking about things and crying and expressing emotions is just not really a thing. You want to say something about that.
Speaker 2:Well, because, true, exactly Because I grew up in a military family, my mom and dad they were arranged marriage. Dad was never showed emotions and mom was very young and she had her own struggles. Never seen my mom cry either, and also there are many things about her is very unpredictable. So for me, no one ever really showed me emotions, how to express my emotions. So therefore, I have never learned how to release, to show emotion. What does it mean when you, when you sad, you should cry? That was not really taught growing up yeah, so your whole life.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting. We talk about you know you mentioned this term that we use in our work, right this idea of mud, misguided, unconscious decisions, this mud that sort of. We make judgments and decisions about ourselves and the world at times when we don't have the knowledge, experience, the wisdom, the know-how. So you, as a little girl, you're seeing a very buttoned up father, no emotions expressed, a mother who, from listening to you, you may be intuitive that she's going through stuff of her own stuff, but she doesn't express her emotions either. So it's all kind of bottled up. And you know what struck me about you, naomi, that was really interesting when you and I talked at the Awakening event, which we'll talk to these people about the kind of work that we both do now is that one of the things that struck me is that you had a pretty traumatic and I don't know that you want to talk about it or not, I'm certainly not going to talk about it, but you could you had what people would call a capital T trauma in your life and one of the really things that struck me as you and I became friends, as you told me correct me if I'm wrong on this, that you had never even told your husband about this trauma that you had and that really in doing this work, especially at the awakening, was one of the first times you ever spoke about it, period. And that was really interesting for me because, you know, in America not everyone's like this, but in the American culture, which you straddle both worlds, obviously from where you come from In the American culture a lot of our trauma is sort of worn on our sleeve like a badge of honor. But your trauma was essentially kind of stuffed in your pocket and never shown to anyone, never talked about to anyone, you never told your parents about it, you didn't even tell your husband about it.
Speaker 1:And you were carrying this and I remember being I had two reactions when you told me about this. One reaction was what an incredibly strong human being to be able to go through that and never voice it. And then the other thing that came to mind was how is that possible, right? How is it that your mud was so cemented that you didn't even want to share it with people closest to you in your life, or even couldn't Because maybe not even wanted to but didn't even know that share it with people closest to you in your life, or even couldn't like, because, you know, maybe not even wanted to, but didn't even know that that was a possibility. I just remember thinking that and I also remember you telling me, um, when you had sort of that breakthrough at the event that, uh, you felt you know, um, you know that you were going to go and share this with your husband.
Speaker 1:I don't know that you ever did. That's how come? I don't want to. I did. Okay, you did so tell me, tell us a little bit about that, because here's what I'm hearing All of a sudden, you have this breakthrough, this thing that you've been carrying around, this thing that you never told anyone about, even the people closest to you. You all of a sudden start sharing that story and all of a sudden, it sounds like you start to release all this emotion. You begin to learn to cry and release it, and this happens to correspond with a what you and I would consider an unheard of physical healing.
Speaker 2:Well, when I was a teen well, going back to when I was a little girl and I grew up alone pretty much so I remember that I usually I always sat by the window waiting for mom to come home and there was really no one there, and early on I learned there is no consistency, I'm just alone by myself.
Speaker 2:So later on in my teens, um, my boundaries, my boundaries were violated and that really reinforced the idea that I have I no one was there to protect me and I gotta move through the navigate this world by myself, and so, whatever that's going on in my life, you, you just put it in your pocket, like you say, and you move on. And because there's always next things, and that's how I move through life, and it happens, it acknowledges what happened and you move on. And to me it wasn't really a point for me to really talk about it. And what is so very interesting, what you told me is I never really identified myself as a victim and I think that carried me through this whole journey. I just thought that's what people do because you need to go through life and you have to keep moving do because you need to go through life and you have to keep moving, so that's why I didn't know that it was a choice to actually you have to share with anyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me, let me. Uh. I told this story that to me, this, right here, for everyone listening, and this, to me, is the most fascinating aspect of Naomi and us as unique humans. Right, because we think that if something happens, everyone responds with B. But Naomi didn't respond that way because in her mud, her misguided, unconscious decision, she made the choice early on in life that I'm alone, no one's going to be here for me. I, whatever happens to me, I carry it alone and deal with it alone, and in some ways, this protected her. In other ways, it sat in her body and we'll talk about that in a minute, but I'll give you an example of what I mean here. You know this story, naomi and um, but I'll tell it to everyone here.
Speaker 1:My mother actually has a story like this where, when she was a kid, her grandfather came into the room and my mother was undressing and he came up behind her and grabbed her and started to fumble her breast and then he just stopped and then walked out of the room. So anybody in my way of looking at this, when I heard my mom tell this story, I was appalled. To me, I'm thinking sexual abuse, what the hell Right? So this would be her grandfather. My mom says to me she had a very rough upbringing and had a mother who was incredibly cruel to her. But she actually said when she told me this story that, jay, this was one of the best gifts my mother ever gave me. Because when I went and told my mother, my mother said, oh, don't worry about him, he's just a dirty old man. And because my mom's mom gave her that story, my mom never registered it as sexual abuse. Therefore, she never carried it that way.
Speaker 1:Now, in your case, I think you definitely registered this as not something okay, but your story was a little different. Of course, you're kind of like this isn't something I'm okay with, this isn't something that's just not a thing. But your story was more like when traumatic stuff like this happens to you. But your story was more like when, when traumatic stuff like this happens to you, you don't talk about it, you just move forward. And both your mom's and my mom's and your story are interesting to me because they were stories that, at least in your little girl bodies and brains and minds, served and protected you in a way, but in your adult selves had consequences. How do you see that? Would you see it that way? And I'm just curious how now, looking back, and now that you do talk about this and are open about it.
Speaker 2:How do you see that? I think the way I see it is that I would say abandonment. I think this whole thing comes out is that I type a story what happened to me? I was unprotected because I was abandoned by my mother and it was all her fault and I had carried that story for years that she was not there to protect me, and that was a story that in my head going on and on for I don't know 30, 30 years and not until recently, after the work we did together, I was able to slowly unpacking those stories and I go now to the point that she and I have a very meaningful relationship and that was not something that I had with her for years.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I'm getting goosebumps from that. Yeah, I'm getting goosebumps from that. It's a really sort of interesting turn of events. So, if I'm hearing you right, it's like being left alone, being left to fend for yourself as a kid, feeling like your mom kind of left you alone, feeling like the fact that you were alone led to this assault and this way of being violated and your mom not being there, and maybe that's also why you felt you could never tell her because no one was going to show up for you anyway. And all of a sudden, you come up with a story and understand this story and you begin to release it. I'm curious, the release, because whenever I see this work and we're going to for those of you that, don't worry, naomi, I'm going to get to telling you what our work is and what the two of us do but one of the things I see, naomi I don't know if you see this now that you're doing this work with people too is that the insight change is always interesting to me.
Speaker 1:There's this one story of mom abandoned me. It's mom's fault, no one protected me, especially my mother. And then there's this thing of like when you see it from a different point of view. All of a sudden it becomes some other story. Like my mom was also in, you know, having issues, or my mom also was traumatized, or it. You just see it differently and I'm wondering what was the shift? Like what? What story? Did you go from mom's fault? Mom left me alone, mom, you know, did this to me versus what Like what's the story now? Like, what was the shift?
Speaker 2:I think the shift came in during the training. During one of the meditations I went into this alone meditations I started doing the forgiveness work. I remember during my meditation I saw I know this is very woo-woo for a lot of people I saw the truth. She was always there. I remember she told me that you're a girl, you need to always come home at night time, no matter what time it is. I need you to be home because I wanted to make sure I can protect you. And then I realized that the event didn't happen at night, it was during the day. And that's how I realized that those stories weren't true. And it's my brain made up because of this, the experience I had with my mom. And therefore, just kind of like you always say you tie the knots and the next thing you do, you just keep going and then you just the next thing. You know there's a ball of yarn that you just can't own money. That's exactly what's going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting, right, the story for you was well, during the day I was not taken care of. And then in this meditation, you saw that your mom in her view, the night was the only dangerous time. So the night was when she felt like she needed to protect you. She felt you were already protected in the day. And so, all of a sudden, the story changes from my mom neglected me, my mom didn't protect me to my mom did her best and actually tried her best to protect me. And that shift in the story freed something in you. And I do remember in this event that you having this and this sometimes happens there's this one meditation where all of a sudden, you just your whole demeanor changed and you started sharing with the group this thing for the first time, like, oh my gosh, like I see this for the first time. It's like something in your energy shifted. I'm going to briefly share with them and then you can jump in with your personal experience. Briefly, we won't go into this a lot for all of you because it's hard to understand, but one of the things that Naomi and I do is in our work as coaches we don't do traditional coaching or counseling and in our clinical work. It's very logical. Naomi has a beautiful, brilliant intellectual mind and she can do that work. She's an incredible clinician intellectual right. But one of the things that Naomi and I have both found we've talked about this, both being intellectuals that going into this work and going into this meditation is really interesting because it's not an intellectual place, it's not something that speaks in logic and linear language. It shows up very much like a dream. That's why Naomi and I talk about well, you're going to see this as woo-woo, because when you drop into these different brainwave states and Naomi and I use certain breathing patterns and certain prompts in our work, that will drop you into alpha and theta brainwave states that make it seem like a dream and bring up material from your past, sometimes memories, sometimes emotions, sometimes other insights. It feels like a dream. Maybe I'm going to the state and I'm seeing a donkey, but I know it's my father and the donkey's wearing a football helmet and I have this insight about it. It's just this weird thing why is this donkey wearing a football helmet? And I have this insight about it. Right, it's just this weird thing. Like, why is this donkey wearing a football helmet? It's actually my dad, like. We all know what dreams are like, but you go into these dreamlike states and then you unwind these knots and you end up getting insights. So this is the work that Naomi and I do. It's basically dropping you into subconscious states and going into the energy body and looking to unwind these emotions. And so we had a retreat together as part of the coach training.
Speaker 1:Naomi is one of the coaches in the Next Level Human work. We did training together and as part of that she came to one of the events and it's funny, right, because Naomi's like you know, jade. What's really interesting about that event is I almost didn't come because and it happened to be the breakthrough Now I know, working up to that, all the work we had done prior to that was loosening things and then it's sort of like boom, this big thing that happened. But for those of you who are wondering what work we do, that's what it's like. If you've ever done psychedelic work, it's kind of like that, but not really. If you've ever done hypnosis, it's kind of like that, but not really. If you've ever done breath work, it's kind of like that, but not quite. It's sort of this controlled lucid dreaming.
Speaker 1:So I would like to know from you, naomi, because we haven't talked about this yet how much do you think the work leading up to that? Because obviously you know we were doing lots of, you know, educational work. We were definitely doing some of the meditations, but there's something about going to an event where you just get to focus just on yourself and I remember you being a little bit like not necessarily wanting to come because you know obviously you're very busy as a clinician. Uh, you know, one of the things I also remember is you don't necessarily like being apart from your husband, right, there was just all these sort of things that uh happened. But I'm curious, um, if you have any other things that led cause I know people are going to be like, okay, naomi, jade, how do I do this work? Like is that all it is? You go to a retreat, you do some stuff, and I'm wondering what kind of uh advice could you give people in terms of the actual process for naomi, which would be different for them?
Speaker 2:but I'm curious um, I think, first of all, I think that my subconscious mind was ready, and something about that is because I went through the scenario multiple times and there are many things that happened that week up to the training that stopped me, but something in me says that I need to go. I need to be there with Jake. And then I think, when I got there, one thing is that I was ready, and then I realized that if you really want to go through this transformation, you have to be really open-minded. And then I think the one thing that with me was I was very open-minded Because my goal is to actually to do the work. Because my goal is to actually to do the work and I am at a place that I was ready to to do the rewrite, rewire, retrain that we.
Speaker 2:We did the process through the training, and I think that's what makes the difference. So, um, you have to be. It takes a courage, I mean really. So it takes a lot of courage to actually really looking at under the hood. I mean because whatever you're going to see, that's not easy sometimes. It definitely, I think, for me is more of a being ready and open-minded to see what you have to offer to bring you to the table so that I can incorporate it into my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. You're right when you think about you have to be ready for this work. I oftentimes tell people do not enter into this work lightly, because the stuff that you will confront is not easy. So we can listen to Naomi's story. She's been carrying this thing. But understand, many of you carry stories that you would never want to share and you might, objectively we would never want to share, you know, and you might objectively. We can look and be like, well, why wouldn't you want to share that? You know, jade or Naomi and the and what, what we all understand. If you go into your deepest shames as humans, you understand that you feel to the core of your being that sharing these things is going to have you be rejected or not be safe or to be used against you or whatever.
Speaker 1:It takes tremendous courage because keep in mind that these stories we tell about ourselves. Someone else might see them as ridiculous or trite or you know no big deal, but for us they're life and death and we feel that in our bodies, which is why we hold on to them. That's why you can't get to them. I can't coax it out of Naomi, naomi can't coax it out of me. She can't say to me Jade, let's talk about it, come on, get over it. That can't happen. This has to happen in a way that I feel it in my body.
Speaker 1:It is something that takes an awful lot of courage, and the reason I wanted to have this discussion with you in public, naomi, you and I have been talking about this back and forth now for two years.
Speaker 1:You know, I guess it's been two years since since this transition, but you know, part of the thing is letting people understand from two very evidence-based practitioners who do clinical work. It's shocking to me, and I think it was shocking to you, to be able to say, oh my gosh, this emotional work, even though we do it, to see the result in this tangible of a physical ailment, immune viral infection, to see it cleared through emotional work. Still, even though you and I know we've been doing this work and believe in it, it's still unbelievable, in a sense because we've been so steeped in materialism the idea that the only way you clear this is through a vaccine or a new drug, or you're going to be with this your whole life, or a supplement or a diet. The idea here is that nothing changed other than you accessing this and learning how to release it.
Speaker 2:I can actually tell you firsthand. I see a lot of females at work and I see it every day. People actually do the right thing, follow the protocols and go on different specialists and they are just not getting better and they're just so busy going around. What is the next pills I can take, and what's the next diet, so on and so forth, whatever they do. And so not until I actually literally address their emotions.
Speaker 2:What is the subconscious mind is doing? That's when the real transformation happens. That's when a real transformation happens. And then I often say and then I think every one of us know what is the real story, what is under the hood. It's just like I said, whatever you want to look at, now, every time I start talking about the under the hood stuff, my patient literally just sitting there crying. So we know, and then I think you agree with me 100, because our body knows what needs to be released. And then I think that if you are willing to literally do the work and under the hood and looking at what is your subconscious trying to tell you, and then I think that's when a true transformation can happen yeah, yeah, and you know what I would add to that.
Speaker 1:Let's see what you think about this and then we can begin to wrap up. But you know, one of the things that I tend to just for those of you who are listening to this, I do think you know, like we can, the new age world of Wu can get this wrong in a sense, like they can. Sometimes, you just sometimes you break a bone, sometimes you, you know, poison yourself. There are physical insults that do physical damage and to me, we know that Right, and you know there's not some energetic, emotional, subconscious thing of a twisted ankle Right. Like you know, sometimes you just you stepped in a pothole and you twisted your ankle Right and that's that and that's that. However, that is not the whole story.
Speaker 1:With illness and what Naomi and I are talking about, you're talking about two people who devoted their life to learning the materialist way of doing things and drugs and surgery and clinical work and, by the way, I believe in all of that. I believe in all of that. It's good work, it's necessary. I think it saves lives. It's necessary, I think it saves lives. It's just that this also is powerful, and perhaps so much more powerful than we could possibly imagine important for us to understand, from somebody who is an incredible intellectual, does incredible clinical work, who had a chronic viral immune infection that the whole world says could not be cured. Sees a direct correlation from releasing and dealing with her mental, emotional, energetic body and this clearing.
Speaker 1:And I was skeptical, naomi, to ever tell this story and I know you kind of are too but I also think it's time that people more and more hear these stories. So I just want to say, not only were you courageous and you know, I do see you as one of my most courageous friends, by the way, like you really are just courage defines you, and, once again, I think telling this story is incredibly courageous, and so I just want to say thank you for that and also just give you a chance to say any other things that you would like people listening to this story to know about you or what they should be doing.
Speaker 2:And for me, I think for all your audience one thing I just want to say that healing is a possible when you are given the right tools. And really through all of my clinical experience now, I truly believe the real transformations happens when you connect the dots, when you connect your mind and your body and soul together. That's when you see the miracle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100 percent, you know. One final question before we wrap up that I'm curious. You mentioned traditional Chinese medicine. You know, and I know you're, you know, a typical Western clinician, but you did grow up in China, right. And so I'm curious, like, to what degree has that traditional background, how much did it permeate into you and are you more interested in it now, because they do have more of an energetic understanding than Western medicine. I'm wondering, just as a final kind of question, how do you see that now, having come up in that culture, understanding, I'm sure, a little bit of that medicine, because you grew up with it and now sort of been spending your whole life as a Western clinician, and now kind of coming back to you you did mention it, you and I haven't talked about it but I'm just curious how you see that. Is it something that you are revisiting now? Is it something that you always sort of had in the back of your mind, or is it just something that you've become re-interested in now that you've delved into this work?
Speaker 2:I'm just curious I think that's always back into my mind and I think it's that I always look at um, a body was a whole system. It's not what we do. We take one part, but everything is all connected. And then I think that's what brought me to from conventional medicine to functional medicine. Here goes the subconscious word, and so I think that is because my influence and the Chinese culture influence. That's how I am able to integrate all of them together, because there's always a missing piece. And then I think that I come around the full circle now. So I know that. That's why I know that this is great work. And then I know you're doing it too, and you see amazing results as well. Yeah, I love that. That's why I know that this is great work. And then I know you're doing it too, and you see amazing results as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. You and I hadn't talked about that before, but it's interesting that that stuff in the back of your mind, that early influence, kept you open to holism, helped. You see it permeated. You were like there's something more, the body's more holistic, and that has guided you to this work. Naomi, thank you so much. I love you, my friend. I think this story is incredible. I know it's going to help a ton of people and just stay on the line for me so we can say bye to each other, but thank you for being here, my friend.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. Thank you.
Speaker 1:See you everybody. I hope you enjoyed the show. We'll talk soon.