Next Level Human

Exploring Masculinity, Self-Development, and Connection- Ep. 307

• Jade Teta • Episode 307

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In this episode, we navigate the nuances of men's self-development, emotional connection, and cultural influences shaping masculinity today. Join us for candid insights, personal stories, and actionable tips to foster growth and authentic relationships.

Key Topics:

  • The gender dynamics in self-development: Why women seem more engaged than men
  • The role of cultural and biological factors in emotional expression among men
  • Practical steps for men to start their self-improvement journey
  • The importance of brotherhood, vulnerability, and connection in masculinity
  • How understanding archetypes and balancing masculine and feminine energies enhances relationships
  • Micro-learning and simple routines for ongoing self-growth
  • Overcoming societal norms and models that hinder emotional awareness
  • The impact of role models and shared experiences in fostering self-awareness

Timestamps: 

0:00

Framing The Men And Self-Development Debate

6:35

Ray’s Origin Story And Early Lessons

14:55

Do Men Count Gym Gains As Growth?

20:05

Interests, Archetypes, And Emotional Gaps

28:05

Nature, Nurture, And Masculine Conditioning

35:25

Models, Mentors, And Male Role Shortage

42:55

Getting Started: Just-In-Time Micro Learning

50:55

Mindfulness For Men: The 4R Process

59:45

Radical Responsibility And Pattern Repair

Resources & Links:

Connect with the Guests:

Connect with Next Level Human
Website: www.nextlevelhuman.com
support@nextlevelhuman.com

Connect with Dr. Jade Teta
Website: www.jadeteta.com
Instagram: @jadeteta

Framing The Men And Self-Development Debate

SPEAKER_04

Welcome everybody to uh this live. So um we are live on YouTube, we are live on LinkedIn, we are live on Substack, and we are live on Facebook. Um so welcome everybody who's coming in live where you are. Uh I am here with uh some of my closest friends in the world, um, Danny Coleman, Ray Heines, Justin Janowska. We might have some other men jumping in. And Danny is kind of um wanting to discuss this morning something that I thought was really interesting. And right before we jumped on live, we already started getting a lively debate because Ray was jumping in saying he doesn't necessarily see it that way. But Danny is uh seeing this idea that when he talks about self-development to friends, and specifically he was having a conversation. I'll let you tell this, Danny, but a couple of his sister and a friend that he works with, and they were saying that this is interesting that women in particular really love self-development, seem to eat up self-development, and that men perhaps not. And they were debating on the percentage. And so Danny was like saying, What do you think? 80-20? And um why, for example, do men seem not to, if we agree with that, and I that's the discussion we want to have, um, because we do, as a bunch of men, I think we'd all admit that men do seem to be getting uh much more attention lately uh in the cultural sort of zeitgeist, and it's not good attention. Uh, a lot of people are seeing men as struggling, uh not doing well, uh, having poor uh outcomes in mental health, you know, men commit suicide more, they tend to be more lonely, they tend to be the ones doing a lot of the violence. There's a lot that's going on with men. And I do think this is an interesting topic because obviously, if they don't have any self-development, uh personal transformation type information, and or they're not interested in it, how are they supposed to get better? So I'll let you sort of see if I frame that up right, Danny, and then let's just go around and see. And we might have some more men joining us, but right now we got us for me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, no, I think you frame it, I think you framed it up well, Jade. Uh, just before you went live, Ray was about to make it make an interesting point. So I'm gonna throw it to him. But the premise is this is essentially our dudes into self-development in a in a in a larger capacity. Obviously, there's there's a percentage of men are out into self-development. Should if they are, what's the split? So if I have a hundred customers, I have a I have kind of a self-development business. So I have a hundred customers. My hypothesis, I'm they're probably about 80% women and 20% men. And this has been my experience kind of in social circles as well. If I talk self-development, it's usually with women, not with men. And so I'm I'm curious about where you guys think where this split is. Are men more into self-development than I'm giving them credit for? Should they be, and why, why does it even matter? Like, why would you why do we even care? Why did I, you know, Ray, you were starting to say, like, I've been in the self-development space as long as I can remember. And I would love to sort of unpack like why you, especially as a man, why you got into it, sort of the benefits you've gotten out of it. So I'm gonna pass it over to Ray, who was kind of on on maybe a little bit of a disagreement train, which would be good for the discussion. So what do you think, Ray, about the split? And then why did you kind of get into it?

Ray’s Origin Story And Early Lessons

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I don't, I, you know, you said 80-20. I guess I'd I would just like to see a little bit more hardcore data on what those uh statistics are. Um, because it I could definitely see where you could get 80-20, especially if you work with a lot more women than you do men. Um but um I don't know, you know, for me, how I got into it was just I guess I would here's how I would describe kind of my own journey in a very kind of 10,000-foot view. I have always believed myself to be um very mediocre. Like I feel like I have um, you know, mediocre looks, intelligence, um, mediocre um uh sports, athletic skill. I um in uh in school, I had mediocre grades. And I always felt like I wanted to, I wanted to, I felt like it was possible for me to not be mediocre, not be kind of middle of the pack. And I also knew I didn't know how to get out of the middle, how to get out of that squishy middle that I think a lot of people get stuck in. And so I started to learn more. Now, when I was young, I probably started on the personal development path probably when I was 13 or 14 years old. Uh I I can tell you what the first thing was. It was Tony Robbins. Um, at the time, I think Tony Robbins was big on infomercials and he was popping on. And um uh I think I received a mailer uh for his tape, not CDs, not MP3s, his tape. What's a tape? Next time I see you, I'm gonna turn out your cross. Um so I ordered the tape. So I I I mowed lawns, I uh, you know, made what money I could, and I put the I had my parents cut me a check and I put it in the mail and I got these tapes. And I remember being drawn more towards the relationship um information within the tapes. So at that time, you know, your the hormones are starting to flow, and you know, you're interested in, you know, as a guy, you're interested in in girls, and you want to figure out, you know, hey, I'm um I'm mediocre uh and uh I think girls want extraordinary, so let me figure out how to make that happen. I I can even tell you from that tape series, the the the lesson that I I I took from it. And it was uh the push button theory of love that Tony Robbins was teaching. And it was it goes like it goes something like this. God, this would be this would be uh a modern miracle if I can if I can pull up this from when I was 20 years old. He said there were um there were four buttons that need to be pushed in order for somebody to feel loved. They have to be looked at a certain way, told a certain way, touched a certain way, and bought things in broad places. And every one of us has uh has needs all four buttons to be pushed. But every one of us has one button that needs to be pushed more than the rest in order for you to feel truly loved. And oh my God, I can't believe this is coming to me. It's blowing my mind. This is like the early form of the four love languages or whatever. Yeah. He said that that uh one button in everybody needs to be pushed more than the rest in order to feel truly loved. So there's love and there's truly love. All four buttons need to be pushed, one more than the rest in order to feel truly loved. So John and Jane meet up. And uh John's one button is he has to be told a certain way. Jane's one button is she has to be touched a certain way. They meet up, relationship is brand new. What are you doing in the beginning of the relationship? You're uh pushing all the buttons and you push them all the time. Oh, honey, I love you. Oh, let's hug and kiss and you know, let's let's go do stuff and um oh, let me, you know, I brought you these flowers, or you know, I know you don't even know what that is anymore, Danny, because nobody buys flowers anymore.

SPEAKER_03

Look, man, I'm I'm I'm still I'm still smooth, all right? I still find my way to the flower aisle.

unknown

All right.

SPEAKER_01

So you push all the buttons, you push them all the times, and you're thinking, this is great, this is my soulmate. And then what happens is over time you stop pushing all the buttons as much, right? This is every relationship, every relationship. And you push one button more than the rest. Which one, Danny Coleman? Let's let's give you a pop quiz. Which button do you push more than the rest? Me personally. Well, it let's say that you're in that circumstance. You you are dating and you're pushing all the buttons, and then all the buttons cool down, but you push one button more than the rest. Which one?

SPEAKER_03

I would say typically people push the uh tell me button the most.

SPEAKER_01

No, you push the button that makes you feel truly loved because you think if it makes me feel truly loved, it makes them feel truly loved. So if John and Jane, they're in a longer-term relationship, John stops pushing all the buttons and he pushes the touch, he pushes, pushes the tell me button because that's the button that makes him feel truly loved, because he thinks if I love watermelon, everybody loves watermelon. And so you think if I tell her I love you all the time, then that's gonna ultimately lead to a great relationship because you feel truly loved when you're told I love that you. But in her mind, she's thinking that's great, but he never he never hugs and kisses me anymore. And so that is the fissure in the foundation that ultimately causes the relationship to fracture and break apart. So that was the lesson I remember from that first personal development um journey that I went on. And I was hooked from there. I just I just fell in love with personal development. So it's it's just hard for me to imagine that. Um, and I guess if I look, if if I look into my own life, at the men in my life, um, like my brothers, um, my father, um, grandparents, and other friends, I I guess I can see, I could see where you're leaning towards 80-20. I I think that's probably a bit unfair to men, but but I I can see where it's leading there. And the only reason I I I guess I could I could say that that may be true is if you um if you compartmentalize what personal development means. Because there's there's you know, I'd say 80-20 for men who who's who go on a personal development journey to make their bodies better, you know? Um and so if if you consider building up your body and and making, you know, and building muscles a personal development journey, then um then it changes those numbers, I think, significantly. Don't you agree?

Do Men Count Gym Gains As Growth?

SPEAKER_03

I don't. I got I got I got a lot of friends who haven't sniffed the gym in a decade, man. I agree, I agree that that is an element of personal development or personal development journey. And a quick, uh I was just I just did a quick Google search. No, no, uh, I'm not gonna be able to cite a source, but just kind of scrolling through these. Uh most of these like high links on Google say about 75-25 women drive the spending in the self-development realm across health, across all those things. So they do tend to spend put their money where their mouth is. And I I have a theory of why this is. I don't know why of the why, but there's this Adam Grant has a good thing, it's like a triple beam balance kind of analogy where it's ideally our confidence should equal our competence. I should feel exactly how confident of how good I am at something. But for whatever reason, there tends to be, there tend it's never quite lined up, right? Either you believe I'm a lot better than I actually am. That's like that's the guy on the couch judging an NFL quarterback, and you're just like, dude, that guy, that guy makes millions of dollars to throw a football, and you're coaching him up. There's like a mismatch. So you think that maybe you could get on the field and throw the ball around. That's like overconfidence, not enough confidence. The reverse is that imposter syndrome that most people feel. They're actually more talented. That's why they get promoted into places than they believe they are. It's kind of what you're talking about, Ray, where you're just like, I felt media mediocre. And to be honest with you, I resonate with that. I was like, I think I got into insecurity drove me to self-development. I didn't think I was, my belief in myself wasn't lower than my actual competence, I think, at this time. So then I seek self-development to kind of close that gap. For whatever reason, culturally, men tend to tip the triple beam balance this way. They think they're way more amazing than they actually are. I don't know if it's cultural messaging early on. I don't know if testosterone fucks with the head at all, and you're just like, oh, and that helps you feel amazing. I don't know what why behind the why, but in my my opinion or my kind of viewpoint is that, yeah, men have that kind of the scale tip for whatever reason, women have the opposite. So they pursue to close that gap. But then there's men like you and me, Ray, who for whatever reason, maybe strong, strong female figures. You were, you know, you always talk about your mom being a powerful presence. I was raised like day by day by a single mom, so maybe there's something along that. I kind of took on those beliefs, but a couple two cents there. But I also want to hear kind of why Justin's into self-development too. What brought you in, man?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, as I'm thinking about it, um or anybody's thoughts on the triple beam balance. Well, it's interesting you mentioned about physical appearance and all that, because I don't think of at least personally, think of self-development as that, but more so emotional development. And I guess they both can be part of that discussion, right? Um But for me, I I think actually the reason why I got into it was because of the romantic heartbreaks and all that stuff that I went through, you know, eight, nine years ago. And Jade knows well about that, but that's probably where it started for me. And how I just was tired of feeling, you know, un you know, insecure and unworthy and not feeling good enough and and just kind of running into a brick wall, I think, and in in my life and not feeling um not feeling connected with anybody or not understanding why I couldn't have that. And so that is, I think, how it started. It was definitely unconscious. It wasn't like I set an intention to be like, I want to be better and do this, do this, but just realizing I didn't want to have to feel this way, this misery anymore. Um, and to learn about myself and and figure out how to fill my own needs, right? That's kind of where it started, I think. And from there, it just kind of uh got better and better and amplified because I could see how important this really was. And then, you know, one thing leads to another, right? And then this to me also feeds into purpose, right? Because, well, now that I have this foundation to build off of, I can do things for others and feel good enough to do it, right? So, and then having purposeful work reinforces your reason for or and and reason to continue with self-development work, if that makes sense, right?

Interests, Archetypes, And Emotional Gaps

SPEAKER_04

I think it makes a lot of sense. Um, I'm on my phone too, guys. So if I start getting a delay, just let me know. You were getting a little bit of delay from me, Justin. I don't know if that's how my end or not, but um, yeah, you know, so interestingly, I feel like let's let me first cover my thoughts and see what you all think about what actually constitutes personal development. Because I love what Ray said about this idea of like what are we actually talking about, right? There's a little bit of a difference there. I see it as the four jobs. So I do see personal development as health pursuits, wealth pursuits, uh, personal relationships, and then uh kind of purpose slash meaning. Um, so to me, I see the self-help world as those domains. And I would think that men would certainly probably gravitate more towards health and wealth pursuits versus personal relationships and purpose and meaning. And if we define personal relationships and purpose and meaning as more self-help, then I might agree with what Danny's saying. But if we include all of them, I would say in some of those domains, we might find a higher percent of men. And then I would say this, and there is when you look at the psychology research as a whole, now people are very different, so we have to kind of be careful about gross generalizations, but we all understand the idea that women in general, average, are shorter than men in height, right? We all understand that concept, but that doesn't mean you won't find a woman who's taller than most men, right? It's just that most of the time. So when we look at across the psychology research, you will see gross generalizations that men are tend to be more interested in um things, uh building things, uh doing things, um things with their hands, uh, you know, things of uh pursuits around things. Whereas women in general are more uh interested in um relationships and people. And this is why we get this you know sort of um issue where lots of men become engineers and not many women, and lots of women want to become nurses and not many men. And so you'll see these things um sort of skewed, and you'll actually see this, and actually Jordan Peterson talks a lot about this for those of you who uh know who that is and pay attention to him. But he talks a lot about the idea that even in the Norwegian countries that tried to account for general equality across domains, they couldn't swear this, right? So Norway, Sweden, these areas, there still were many more women wanting to go into nursing than there were engineering. And so I think that perhaps this is the reason why men are maybe more interested in certain things and women are more interested in people and emotional pursuits. Now, the final thing I'll say here to see what you all think as I go, I do think that where men, that is the issue for men, that they are not very well versed in general in the mental emotional domains. In fact, in our culture, uh we have to learn, let's say, emotional regulation and emotional appropriateness when we're young. Men learn regulation to such a degree that they tend to suppress, which stunts their emotional uh ability to show up and relate to people. Then they feel disconnected. And I do think this is part of the problem, and I think it's what you're pointing to, Danny. So I'll just see what you think about that in terms of I feel like that's where men are really struggling. There's certain domains in self-development they will gravitate to, others they will not at all, and because of the cultural zeitgeist, the way men are brought up, they are actually stifled pretty severely in general in certain areas. And I would say emotionally, men are much further behind than women for these reasons. I think.

SPEAKER_03

So it's more so is it a nature or a nurture thing, though, Jade? So is it like our men nudge towards don't use your imagination for a tea party and and instead tinker with this truck at a very early age and figure out how it works? So is it a is it just a training protocol? Because obviously we're seeing shifts in like something like educational statistics now. More and more women are going into kind of these STEM fields, more and more women are, more women are graduating college and advanced degrees than men are now. So there's sort of a cultural awakening or opening for women to kind of fill that void. So, I mean, how much does just the nature of nurture come into play? I mean, obviously both come into play a lot. I know your answer to that, but I guess I'm just I'm just curious why these dudes get why these dudes get blunted. Like it is it uh to Justin's point, like I I can talk to dudes about building the bicep, and I do think that's a self-development avenue. That's how I definitely entered self-development in a big way. Uh, but when you start talking about emotional stuff, all my friends shut down. It's like, yeah, yeah, totally. So uh you see the score the other day, which I'm fine talking about too. I like that too. But it's just funny how you you see these dudes like they don't have they don't my friends don't have the vocabulary for to talk about this stuff. Like if they were on here right now, they would be bright red and be like, I don't know what to do with my hands. And I don't know what I don't know what that is. And there seems to be a lack of interest in it too. So I was just, I don't know, a couple of kind of reflection thoughts listening to you talk, but know what you guys think too.

SPEAKER_04

I'm gonna let Justin or um or uh Ray answer this, whether they think it's nature or nurture.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's both. I mean, I I I I I I think you I I hate answering like that. I hate answering it's both, but yeah, I think it honestly is both. Uh there is definitely within society a um a mold in which men are expected to fit into. I think um, you know, if we if we were to have a male mold and a female whole mold, I think females move this way towards the male mold easier than men move this way towards the female mold. And I'm I'm really speaking more towards the um not physical. I'm talking about the like the masculine, feminine nature. So um, and I think that's what we've seen. We've seen more women kind of taking more, taking on more masculine traits, and men just don't transfer that way in the same way. And so um it's um yeah, I think that it there's probably definitely a uh a a nature aspect of it that men I think I think tend towards action. I think that's what you were speaking to, Jade, that we tend towards action rather than rumination and and um and um uh education and uh uh you know, we're dumb men, you know, we we we like to just uh stamper about and uh and build things and do things. And you know, if we have a desire to get better at something, rather than going and buying a book about it, we'll you know get in there and we'll fail our way towards some towards towards better at that thing.

SPEAKER_04

And that is testosterone, by the way, Danny. That that is a testosterone effect, by the way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Justin, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I I do agree, it's both, but I I think I'm gonna say that's nurture is more of the reason. I mean, you know, just environmental factors and upbringing and all those sort of things. I mean, that's gonna influence a lot of this, I think, right? I know for me and people in my family, there's no one to Danny's point that I could really talk about this sort of stuff with, because it'd be like like talking to a brick wall, right? And some people are just not ready to receive it or too so deep in their ways that they don't want to change. And it's just like, what's the point? And maybe, at least for me, I think that some people have to go through enough uh shit, maybe, or have to go through some I don't know, travesty or something that really breaks them for them to want to be different and change. Maybe that has to happen. And if it doesn't happen, then I don't see any sort of incentive to want to work on your emotional intelligence and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03

I also think there's a there's a real lack of of uh of models for this stuff. It's it's one of the reasons, you know, I love I love that we're doing this kind of Sunday thing. I've said this many times before, and I've I've pushed for this in our in our group chat to start sort of like a podcast for men, for young men, because of such of the influence that you guys have had on me. Like I met, I I've told I said this last time, but you know, I met Jade when I was like six, fifteen or sixteen. I met Ray when I was 19. These are they were such like developmental periods of my life, and to have guys that I was like, these guys, uh these guys are kind of cool, they're kind of solid, they're kind of interesting, and they felt you guys felt aspirational to me. And then the things that you were doing, you were reading. You introduced this is what this is what a research paper is. This is what, this is what you do in the gym. This is the kind of stuff that I'm thinking about. So there was almost an aspirational nature. And also, you know, I'll give my I'll give my father credit too in this regard. My dad, my dad grew up in the cities, a city mouse. So he did not, we weren't out here building things. Like my dad wouldn't know what to do with an axe if it was stuck in his shoulder. Like it was, we wouldn't know how to build anything with wood or how to change something electrical or anything like that. So we talked. He talked about history a lot, he talked about philosophy a lot. He that dude's like a walking fortune cookie, a Boston Irish fortune cookie that can get a little, a little confusing sometimes. Let's just blurt out things like ewop, Dan. I'm like, ewop. He's like, everything works out perfectly. And then you just kind of like, well, there's a little bit of wisdom in some of his little quirky sayings right here. But I've had a lot of models, and I do think there is a little bit of a dry well of these kind of older aspirational male figures for a lot of the younger guys, which is one of the reasons I always push in our group to start a podcast for men, and I know right you're like, nah, I'm good sometimes. But uh, I just think there's kind of a dry, a dry area of aspirational male figures or aspirational male figures for a lot of young dudes.

SPEAKER_01

You're you're right, Danny. You're lucky to have us.

SPEAKER_03

I know I am, man. I know I am.

SPEAKER_04

But you know, let me tell the story. I want to tell the story of how you and I met, Ray, because I do think this is Ray. He's he's an interesting dude because he's he's you're so incredibly humble and you're so incredibly extraordinary, and you don't even know. And this is another thing that's really interesting. I love this dichotomy you were setting up, Danny, of on the one hand, a lot of men are sort of suffering for the Dunning Krueger effect, but then you have men like Ray, who are kind of the opposite, highly, highly extraordinary, but don't see themselves that way, which is makes him, I think, really interesting and ambitious. But what's really cool about Ray, I'll tell everyone how this works. I this is way back when I was first starting Metabolic Effect and getting online. And um, I am, you know, try I think I discovered this great thing called internet marketing, right? I'm like, oh my God, I discovered this amazing thing because my friends who know me know I'm not paying a whole lot of attention to what's going on in the world. And I get this message from this Dr. Ray, and it basically goes, hey man, you don't know me, but I'm going to this event, and I want to invite you to come with me. And so I show my wife, Danny's sister, at a time, and I go, I think this dude's asking me out. So, but but what was really neat is I was like, you know, like I don't know what this is, but I looked up this event that he wanted to go to, and I'm like, this guy, this is not something a dude normally does, you know, to just ask somebody randomly to go to a thing with him. So I'm like, but I end up going, and Ray and I become like the closest friends and have had this amazing, you know, sort of dynamic. And I actually think that this is part of the issue with men, is that we do not take on those roles where we're like, we might want to connect, but then we don't connect to you know, to Justin's point, right? It's kind of like I don't have connections, but we don't necessarily know how to connect. And then you meet a man like Ray who is like, no, I want to connect, I want to do this thing, I'm gonna put myself out there. And that was a really powerful, I think, thing that I have only ever seen in my family, because I do have that. My brothers, I got two brothers, uh, a dad, I got a lot of men in my family, and they were very open that way. And it was like interesting for me to see someone like Ray be open that way. Once I met him, I was like, oh, this is my this is my person. And so I do agree with you that a lot of men aren't um, you know, uh don't have this. I I do want to say one more thing and see what you think. Ray mentioned this polarity issue of masculine and feminine. I do think this is part of the reason men are struggling. Now, real quick, just in case there's men listening, let's just cover archetypes real quick. We're not we're not talking about male-female, we're talking about archetypes. This is getting into the Young Yan, you know, sort of uh psychology. And all that means is if we took, you know, a million people, put them in a room, and said, Hey, what do you think about when you think about male? You know, they would say things like strong, they would say things like focus, they would think say things like warrior. And then if we asked all those million people again, what do you think about when I say female, they might say things like creative or you know, friendly, or nurturing, or whatever it is. And when you put all that together, we probably need some AI, you know, thing to put all that together. You get these general archetypes. That's all we're talking about. I do think that men in general are too masculine heavy, and our culture forces that. And so I do think the men that I vibe with the most are men who have a balanced masculine and feminine nature. And by the way, for you men who are listening to this and not understanding this, Ray, Justin both talked about getting into self-development because of women and they're interested in women. To me, the best relationships and the best way to connect with a woman is understanding your feminine nature and balancing these two things. And when you have that balance, you can let her lead at times and be more in her masculine, and then you can step forward and be more in your masculine. You have a flexibility, so there's not these rigid roles. So I think two points I'm making there. One, I think men don't have a lot of uh people who will reach out to them and connect other men. And I go, so bless them there. If you're a man and you have that, reach out yourself, like Ray did. Number two, I think if you want to connect specifically with women, you better find this balance of masculine and feminine. And then that goes right to Danny's point of where are you gonna find that information by learning through self-development, having conversations with men like me, Justin, Danny, and Ray. And so I do think we just need more of these conversations.

SPEAKER_03

So let me ask you guys, what would be you say you said, Jay, if there are men listening to this, which my entire point was, I bet there's no men listening to this. I bet, I bet there's there's all women listening to this right now. But let's say there are men listening to this. I'm curious about like, I would love to go around just get like, all right, what's your what would be your your get get started protocol for a young man in in getting into self-development? Is there are is it a book? Is it uh is it the reach out protocol you mentioned, Jade? I I would love to start. I'm gonna less uh Ray or Justin, if you guys have like, I don't know, couple step protocol getting started with this, with this stuff, where would you point these guys? How would you recommend it? And kind of imagine kind of the dude who who does kind of feel alone. He's like, I'm issuing this stuff. Yeah, I would love to have what you guys have and have conversations, but I'm looking around and I don't have any of that. I don't even know where to find that. So I would be curious about, I don't know, one three-step protocol to oversimplify things, Ray. Do you have do you have something or Justin, you have something?

Models, Mentors, And Male Role Shortage

SPEAKER_01

I know then Jay will obviously will go to you too, man, but so I, you know, I was just reading a book called Lean Learning by Pat Flynn. Uh I was reading it on the way, the way um on a plane ride. And um and there were a few interesting points within that book that I think apply to this situation. Well, the first thing I would say is we have to realize that that the world changes much faster than our biology changes. And the world has changed. It's not that men are uh that men are different, you know, it's that the world has changed and men have not adapted to that yet. And so the the um if you can just first accept that it's not you, it's the world that has shifted and changed. And now you have to update the models, the models that you have in order to be able to thrive in this new world. And when you look at it that way, now you can step back and you can look at the world and uh from a kind of a third person perspective and uh and say, okay, okay, so maybe the financial dynamics have changed where it used to be that men were the breadwinners and now you know you get more and more women who are the breadwinners within the family. And uh you can either take that as um an insult to your manhood, or you can take it as this is just the new world as it is right now. And maybe I need to update my models in a way that that uh can can fit in that new world. So that's that's just one example, and there are probably many that we can come come across and and uh and and um uh uh figure out or uh you know over time. So the going back to the book in in Pat uh the book Lean Learning by Pat Flynn, he doesn't specifically speak about masculine, feminine, or about men in general. This is this is a book for anybody, and it's probably read by more by more women, as you said, because it's a personal development book. But the idea was that um uh one idea within the book was this this idea of just in time learning and micro learning. So for men, what I would suggest moving forward is to just don't try to overhaul the whole machine. Uh just uh number one, think in terms of okay, uh maybe you're in a relationship and the challenge is you're not um you're not uh um showing enough emotion to uh satisfy your your woman's need for that kind of connection. Then the just-in-time learning would be, okay, let me just you know, maybe read a blog post about this particular about how men are struggling with emotional connection with women. And then the micro learning component of it is to say, okay, I'm just gonna try, uh, you know, I'm just gonna try giving my woman a hug at, you know, you know, from time to time, or or every day I'm gonna give my woman a hug and just tell her I love her. And, you know, it's gonna feel completely, totally, and utterly awkward for you in the beginning, but over time, it's it's something that you can do, and then you can spend the 23 hours and uh 58 minutes and the rest of the day to walk around as manly as you want. But for those two minutes, you're gonna you're gonna step into the feminine and just just uh into the feminine energy and connect in that two minutes. And then that two minutes over time might become four minutes and you know, 10 minutes and you know, 60 minutes. But uh men, I don't think, do great trying to overhaul the whole machine. Just take one little component and and fix that. In in that book, he he gives a really cool example of this guy named Otto, who was uh a pro what he was labeled as a like a professional couch surfer. And he would um, you know, kind of like you, Danny, and uh like you used to be a professional couch surfer. And so he would go like that. Look, man, I always had a bedroom, all right? Yeah, that's yeah. You don't get to find accommodations, but he was uh so he he had like this this channel where he would go and he would convince people to let him just stay with them and on his couch, like strangers and stuff. And he would document his journey and and his experiences that he had. But anyway, this guy had like this um he he his passion used to be, uh I think we lost Justin.

SPEAKER_04

His passion um uh painting.

SPEAKER_01

But he had kind of set that aside. He kind of he he he he uh labeled himself a reformed um bad painter. And uh but eventually he ended up going back and saying, okay, so he's making just enough to get by uh with his uh professional couchsurfing um channel. But he ultimately went and and um and said, okay, I'm gonna get back into it. But he did it in a way where he would he would show his work and he would he would uh focus on just one little aspect of painting. And he would show his work, and his work was crap in the beginning, and he and he would say it's crap, and here's why it's crap, and here's what I'm gonna work on. And so he ended up doing like 4,000 pieces of art, um living out loud, kind of just or learning out loud, as they say. Um he'd he'd make the change and he'd spend maybe even uh weeks on just this one little concept, just fixing this one thing. Maybe it was working on shadows and fixing the shadows. And eventually his work um grew and grew and grew in popularity, and it went from all this crap painting to paintings that were now um, you know, on uh uh William Shatner's wall and um and all these um all of these uh famous people are now buying his paintings. And I guess the idea is you don't have to overhaul everything and try to master everything, just master one little skill within your life that that moves you in the right direction and um and be cool with that. And that goes against men. Men just want to fix the whole thing. They don't want to fix it a little, they want to fix it a lot, they want to fix it completely. But just fix yourself a little bit and uh and uh be okay with that and uh be okay with that in perfection moving forward. That's what I would say. Love that. I like that.

SPEAKER_04

Justin, get any ideas?

SPEAKER_00

Um yeah, I mean what I'm gonna say might just sound really boring, but you know, I my from my perspective, I think people just have to um learn to quiet their minds and just sit with themselves for a minute and like just get into a habit of doing that, you know, as simple as and and kind of I guess um unoriginal as that is, but mindfulness and just like learning to sit with what is and identify and label and that kind of thing, uh figuring what you're feeling and why, because if we can't even do that, how are you gonna make progress in anything?

SPEAKER_04

So I think it's just let me ask you about that, Justin. Just let me ask you about that. I I actually I don't think this is boring at all, but what I do think is that a lot of men would be like, I don't know what that means. Like, what so can you just walk us through like because I actually agree with you that you know being still and getting in touch with what we're feeling so we can have some emotional integrity, because a lot of men don't, like they just go, and I'm sad, you know, they don't know they're sad, they they get mad and they don't realize underneath that might be sadness or lack of connection. And so just briefly, uh, can you walk us through like how you might tell a man to begin you know paying attention to that? Because I do think this goes to you know, this kind of one thing, learning just on time, like Ray said. And I would I just don't think a lot of men know what that means to sit and feel what they're feeling.

Getting Started: Just-In-Time Micro Learning

SPEAKER_00

Well, I I see it uh probably in two ways. And one would be to have a routine where you actually just sit and do like Vipassa meditation, right? Just pay attention to what's coming up for you and not have an attachment to figuring anything out or trying to get anywhere, right? That alone will be will be helpful. I think we know that, right? And as far as what will it do the to the brain and bringing in awareness. But I I think what also has to happen too is and this is probably where it might be more well, maybe as difficult or not, but when you have a strong feeling, right? Maybe it is maybe it is shame, maybe it is anger, um inadequacy, like you you pause and you you really just kind of identify that, right? Um one thing I've kind of put together that I uh teach people is this whole this whole idea of like the 4R process, recognize, receive, research, release, which is just recognizing what you're feeling and saying, I'm feeling this way, and anger feels like this, sadness feels like this. Um and just even doing that is is probably going to be very helpful, but most men probably are not doing that. And I think they could if they just actually sat and paused, took a breath. Um, one thing I do with myself is, you know, where is the stillness, right? What would this moment be like without my thoughts about it, right? Just trying to figure out like what it is there that is coming up. And if you don't know, if you don't have the vocabulary, okay, fine. Here's the here's the uh emotion wheel, and you can figure out like the different things and you can study that, you can kind of have in your back pocket, right? I think this also ties into attachment styles, and and that's kind of my thinking about it, because there's probably a reason why we were having a hard time doing this if that's the case. And there's maybe avoidance, there's a lot that kind of thing. And so learning about your attachment style and your upbringing and how that could have affected you would be helpful to um kind of sort this out as well, right? Um so recognizing it, receiving it, and that's kind of just like holding space for it with compassion, right? Um and then um researching and noticing where in the body you're feeling it, because there might be some physical sensations, interoceptive stuff going on and what is coming up inside um at a at a physical level. And you know, I might just stop there, right? The the final part would be more about self-compassion, but uh you know, I think if we can just have a one-minute um sort of, I don't know what you want to call it, one or two minute sort of um break in the day, a moment to to be with with whatever intense feeling is coming up, to pause and reflect for a second, that could just help all of us um kind of pay attention to what's there. And I think when you have a routine every morning or every day where you are just sitting with yourself without trying to go anywhere or figure anything out, it will allow you to do that kind of practice later. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I I yeah, I love this, and and it makes me just think of like how um, and this isn't just a male thing, but how a lot of men and people will just feel something and go right into self-soothing, scrolling, food, all of that kind of stuff. This to me is a it's it's uh what what you're talking about. Yes, it sounds simple on the surface, and I know a lot of humanity are listening to this, probably some of you, especially if you're younger, like I have no idea what Justin is talking about, but let me just show you, you know, kind of how this would work. When, you know, especially with like you know, Ray and Justin talking about they got into this work for women, you know, because men do want connection. This is the thing that everyone forgets about men. Before we're genders, when we're male, female, we are humans, and every human needs safety and security and acceptance and belonging. So whether you like it or not, as a human, forget being male or female, you want connection. If you feel like you are disconnected, the first place to look is the idea that you are disconnected from self. So then when your woman asks you, what are you feeling? which is not to annoy you, it's a bid to connect with you, which you want to, you actually now have a mechanism to tell her what I'm feeling. You can actually name it and be like, Well, I don't actually know what this is. Maybe it's anger, but I'm feeling it right here in my throat. And you say this to a woman, she's gonna be like, This is the sexiest man that I've ever known. And she's gonna lean in and she's gonna want to totally understand what you're talking about because she's gonna be like, I've never heard a man talk like this. And this is where you get connected. It's also what allows me to connect with Danny and allows me to connect with Ray, and allows me to connect with Justin. When I know how I feel and I can express how I feel, I can connect with my brothers, right? And I don't feel as alone, and I can connect with my women. And so I love that idea. And then my one thing before I hear yours, Danny, is that I think that for men and humans in general, we know ourselves through our interactions with others. So to me, I would just say, look at your patterns. You know, as men, I think the core masculine trait should be radical responsibility and extreme ownership. So to me, I go, if I have a shitty pattern in my life and I continue to have broken relationships in my romantic patterns, and I continue to have, you know, I don't have connection with men. I have poor relationships with uh, you know, people. To me, I go, that's on me. Like this is a very masculine thing from my perspective. So I would say my one thing for men is radical responsibility, stream ownership, see your patterns, and fault is irrelevant. If it's in your sphere of awareness and you want to change, then it's on you, bro. Period. You know, so I I want to see what you think, uh, Dan.

SPEAKER_01

Let me just uh let me just add two points to that. Because justin, I'll let me tell you why that, why your point is A, not not boring, and B, I think a really good place for people to start. Because, you know, men really do have difficulty. Uh, and I don't want to put all men in the bucket, but uh when we're talking about men, really what we're talking about is masculine energy. Because I think that a lot of I think we're gonna see more and more women uh who tend towards a masculine energy run into some of the same problems that men are running into just because it's the masculine energy that becomes the challenge as the world begins to shift and change. Um but there's two things that I think really jump out at me. Number one, a lot of men I think will have difficulty um connecting emotionally with women. And sometimes it's better just to start inside yourself and connect with yourself and connect with your emotions inside because you can't really like there's no there's no chance of you feeling like like uh, you know, because I think men might think, well, you might think I'm too girly or too feminine. And uh maybe you start just interior and just watching these emotions, watching these feelings, and just you know, let the thoughts kind of just be out there. Just watch the emotion kind of float in front of you like a leaf floating down the river. And uh don't feel a need to change it, because I think that's what men have a tendency to do is when they feel something, they feel a need to change it. Just let it be, you know, let it be and let it let it watch. The second thing I'd say that that the mindfulness and the meditation does is the masculine energies have this uh this toxic way about them. And that toxic way is um the masculine energy thinks that their favorite place is not always someplace else. Like uh if you're here in the moment, uh the masculine energy has a tendency to be in the future, either trying to build or trying to um uh protect against some danger or something like that. And I think that that masculine energy is probably one of the things that men need to really come to grips with is that you know, uh the meditation helps to bring you from the the future thinking into the present thinking where you can um connect in the way that Jade was talking about. Um if your favorite place is someplace else, I think you had Jade, like you ran into that um with Jill, because I remember you telling me about how, you know, um she was always someplace else, you know, because she was in the social media, she was doing the you know, the the um and that was very difficult for your feminine energy to connect with. And uh I think a lot of um a lot of uh men suffer, struggle with that as well, is that their mind isn't here in the present with the person, with the emotions, it's someplace else trying to fix something. Yeah.

Mindfulness For Men: The 4R Process

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and I and just so yeah, we need to get Jill on here, but I don't know if Jill would, you know, um necessarily say that was the case, but that that absolutely was, I think, adequate in terms of what I was feeling, you know, for sure. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Go ahead, Danny.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'll throw I'll throw mine into the hat. Uh of the group here, I'm definitely uh the closest to the caveman. I'm the I'll probably like I'm probably like the beers and ball games guy of the group. So I'll my my protocol would be more um less philosophical. And I I think everything you guys said, I don't I don't have any pushback on it. I think it's probably some of the most powerful things that we could do to your point, Jay, not just as men, but as human beings, some of these mindfulness practices, I just think they're they are incredibly powerful. And I do, I do engage in them. But if I'm giving someone, I'm like thinking of a 19, 20, 21-year-old Dan, I'm like, what would I, what would be the protocol for him I would give? I would say it's like it's like three things every day. It's read a book, it's make a move, and it's send a text. Read a book, like an actual book made of paper at some point. You guys can push back something through this, but I've been on a little bit of a tirade uh pro books. I'm a I'm a book guy, as you guys know, but people are like, but people learn in different ways. And I'm like, yes, they do. I watch YouTube videos, I listen to podcasts, and I I'm just like, read a fucking book. Books for a couple reasons. One, when we read a book, not listen to it, but when we read it, it slows down our brain and different language standards in the brain light up to where we're we can actually start to develop our vocabulary in emotional or otherwise. And it's interesting for men that I kind of like from my from my caveman group of men, the entryway into self-development has been books. My I have a group of friends who are probably a little, they're not, they're not quite into self-development, but they'll read a book and they'll send me recommendations, or they'll they'll send me a link, or they'll just send me a book on Amazon off the cuff. It's a way that we can connect with one another. It's also great to start a conversation. I remember I had, I was in like a male book club when I was living in Austin, and the discussions always start around service level, some sort of history book or something like that. And they always evolve from there into something a little bit deeper, a little bit more personal. So I just think one, it's a great entryway into some of these discussions, and it's an easy thing for dudes to do, and it is a different type of learning than a podcast or a YouTube. And it's also typically more thoughtful. A podcast, I I've listened to some of these podcasts. I just go, wow, they haven't thought about that. They're thinking out loud right now. This is this is just a stream of consciousness. But books tend to be a little bit more structured, a little bit more thoughtful, a little bit more research. So read a book, make a move. I don't care what you do, if you go play basketball, if you lift a weight, if you go on a walk, I think that was pretty pivotal for me. I think weightlifting was it for me. I used to work out with Jade when I was a 19, 20-year-old kid. That was hugely part of my self-development journey. But whatever your movement of choice is, make a move and then send a text. It's something I'm trying to do this year. It could be a call, but it's like reach out to somebody in connection, send them, send them a link to an article you read, send them a book recommendation, just checking in. Hey, what's been going on lately? Stuff like that. That practice, those three practices have made all the difference in the world for me. So if you can, on most days, read a book, make a move, and send a text. I think a lot of people are going to be well on their way. They're not gonna be just sitting in their house all day because you got to get outside to make a move. I guess you could be inside, but they're not, they're gonna get off their video games, gonna have to get away from your distractions at least for a small period of time. And then, like any muscle, I think that grows over time. So that's probably over-simplistic, but those would be my big three protocol.

SPEAKER_04

Let me let me uh say just one thing about the make the move. I I love those, by the way. Uh the make the move thing, I think, uh, for you guys, I do think this kind of stuff, having conversations is a great way to make a move. I think I think a lot of the reason men don't get into self-development as well is they don't get an opportunity to have conversations like this. I think, especially us four and people in our circle, like we're having conversations like this all the time, which is why we feel uh connected. So I do think, you know, yeah, walk, lift weights, but get in conversations with your brothers and ask them how they feel. You will be surprised when it's not a woman asking you how you feel, but a man asking another man how they feel, how that gives that other man permission to kind of be like, oh, I'll tell one quick story and then we can start wrapping up if you guys want. But my uh my grandfather, old school Italian man, you know, very manly old school, you know, we're talking, he was born in 1912. Um, and so he, when we would come into the house, my mom would be like, go give your grandfather a hug. And we would run and he would push us away and be like, you know, no, no, no, no, no, get out of here, say good, say, you know, like he talked like one of those gangsters. And basically, my mom would be like, he would push us away, and my mom would be like, Jade, come here. Do not let him push you away. You go give him a hug. I'm like, mom, but he doesn't want a hug. Go hug him now. So I would go and I would hug him. And by the time I was in high school, my grandfather was looking for not just a hug, but a kiss. And here's the interesting thing about that. He was craving connection to all humans do. So the first thing men need to realize is that you are human, you need connection. I don't care what you say, and you need connection from your brothers in a different way than a romantic connection. It is brotherly love, this idea of going to battle with people. Luckily, we're not in, you know, wars right now, but that same thing happens when Ray's going through a tough time, or Danny's going through a tough time, or Jess is going through a tough time, or I'm going through a tough time, that I can reach out to these dudes and be like, you know, I uh need you. And us men don't tend to do that, but it starts with just these small little actions. So I don't know where you want to go with this, Danny. We can begin wrapping it up. And any final thoughts for all of you? I I think that's kind of uh where I would come down, my final thought.

SPEAKER_03

I just want to I thought Ray was starting to talk on my caveman protocol. I just wanted to see if he had if he had something to add or subtract.

SPEAKER_01

I I was just gonna say, nobody ever texts me.

SPEAKER_03

Let me get my violin, man.

SPEAKER_04

Uh well, we know I'm horrible at all.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, they're just it's it's a broadcast text to Jade. It's just an announcement. Yeah. No, no, you've been getting better, man, in recent years. I don't know if you've been trying, but you've been getting a lot more responsive in recent years.

SPEAKER_04

Well, you know what? Recent years I have had some rough things happen, and so I'm like, I I want to reach out to my bros for connection, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Jay, before we go, you gotta, since you're talking about your grandfather, because we gotta have part entertainment, you gotta tell the the uh going out to eat story where he knew this fine little Mexican restaurant.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so yeah, so we land in in Zero Beast, Florida, and he's like, Are you boys hungry? See, by the way, he's 92 and he drives. He won't let anyone else drive. And while he's driving, if you come up to a stop sign, he'll be like, you know what? This uh this stop sign, I just go right on through. See, it's like, are you just slow down if no one's coming, just go right on through? But then he says, We're like, oh hell yeah, we're we're starving. He goes, I know the best little Mexican place. See, just opened up. Taco Bell, see. It's the cheapest, best food. And I'm like, he had no idea the Taco Bell was a chain. This is my grandfather. And by the way, the cheaper the food, daddy, the cheaper the food, the better. Like if it was cheap, he loved it. Like, yeah, I don't know if most of you who are listening to this, if you ever heard of KMW and cheap, KMW cafeteria, which is in the south. I don't know if you have that up in Maryland, Ray, but they have it down in the south. I think it's gone out of business now. That was his favorite place. He tastes like a school cafeteria that you that you went to. He loved that shit.

SPEAKER_02

Uh, funny dude. That's funny stuff. See, that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_03

Uh got any final thoughts, final thoughts on the conversation. But thank you guys for doing this. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, guys. Cool.

SPEAKER_04

So thank you everybody for hanging out. Um, check out uh Danny, he's here on Substack. Uh check him out on Instagram. It's uh at it's Danny Coleman on uh Instagram. Check out Ray, Dr. Ray Heines, who's also on Substack, and you are too, Justin, right? So like we're all on Substack minus there. If you have difficulty finding them, go to my profiles. You'll see that I follow Ray, I follow Justin, I follow Danny. So make sure you uh you know follow them. Uh I love you boys, and uh, we will see you at the next video.