Small Business Big World
New episodes every Tuesday discussing the challenges, adventures and fun of being a small business owner. Each week we'll delve into various small business topics, from real-world DEI considerations to selling your business, using video to market your business, unique benefit offerings for your employees and so much more. Curated by the crew at Paper Trails.
Small Business Big World
The Role of Local Media in Supporting Small Businesses
This week, we sit down with Andrea Tetzlaff, the publisher at MaineBiz, who guides us through the publication's journey from a modest monthly issue in 1994 to a vital resource for Maine's small businesses. Andrea sheds light on how MaineBiz has consistently provided valuable content and organized networking events to support and connect the local business community. This episode is packed with insights that highlight the intersection of media and small business.
This is Small Business, big World, our weekly podcast prepared by the team at Paper Trails. Owning and running a small business is hard. Each week, we'll dive into the challenges, headaches, trends, fun and excitement of running a small business. After all, small businesses are the heartbeat of America and our team is here to keep them beating. Welcome to Small Business, big World, our weekly podcast, where we talk about all things small business. This week, my guest is Andrea Teslav from MaineBiz, the publisher at MaineBiz. The big wig right. Thanks so much for joining me today, andrea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so we're going to kind of talk about, you know, the role that MaineBiz and all publications really play in supporting our small businesses here in the state of Maine. But before we do that, I just want to remind everybody, don't forget, please like, follow, share, rate, review, subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. We're also on all the social platforms at Small Business Big World. If you ever have questions for us or any of our guests, you certainly can reach out to podcast at papertrailscom and we will get you the answers that you need. All right, andrea, let's jump in and we will get you the answers that you need. So all right, andrea, let's jump in.
Speaker 2:So talk to us about MaineBiz and what you guys do and all that fun stuff for those that don't know. Yeah, so MaineBiz this is our 30th anniversary year actually. So we started in 1994 as just a once monthly publication that was coming out. Since then we have expanded. Our print publication now comes out biweekly.
Speaker 2:We also produce several digital products, including a daily e-newsletter, a weekly recap newsletter, two e-newsletters that are focused entirely on real estate because we are a business-to-business publication, and on real estate because, you know we are a business to business publication and commercial real estate drives so much of that world, whether that's, you know, commercial brokers, developers, construction agencies, law firms, banks, like that's so much of our readership and so folks are really interested in that real estate world.
Speaker 2:And then we have our events platform that we put on where we have several events, both in the Portland area, in the Bangor area, that are typically kind of honoree events where we're honoring business leaders or folks who are excelling in their field, as well as breakfast forum events where we're having a conversation on some timely topic with some business experts or leaders in the community to sort of provide their perspective and their expertise for others to learn from.
Speaker 2:And then we also have our On the Road series, which quite literally takes us on the road all over the state of Maine. We are Maine biz. We are not Portland biz or Augusta biz or anything like that. So we do cover the entire state. So we go to Ellsworth and we go to Fort Kent and we go to Caribou and we go to Greenville. We talk to people in those communities, we have networking receptions to not only connect us to those communities but also folks in those communities to each other and just really do what we can to foster businesses connecting and being successful in the state of Maine, which is awesome.
Speaker 1:I always know it's noontime, it's lunchtime, when I get my daily email. Some days I know I've lost half my day. Right, it's noon already, lots of it, and you go wait what, that's already. Yeah, one day you guys sent it out a little early and I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, what if it settled down? Yeah, I know it was a little aggressive that day, but no, those are always great and certainly, you know, from our perspective, we, you know, get great information and great news from you all, which we really appreciate too. So thanks for that intro, thank you. How have you seen, you know, that media landscape change, especially in the business world, over the last few years? I mean, we all say our business has certainly transformed since COVID, but even before that things were rapidly evolving. How's that changing? You guys have been around 30 years. What have you seen for changes?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean business has absolutely shifted for sure across the 30 years that we have been around. I personally have been with Mean Biz for 12 of those years and you know it's definitely changed. I think digital media and the rise of all things digital has, for sure, impacted the way business operates. You know, one of our largest events 10 years ago, 15 years ago, was something called Momentum Convention and that was a trade show that was done at the Augusta Civic Center and we had done that for many years and it was a great way for folks to connect and showcase new products that they might be having come out that year. And that's just not the way business is done anymore and trade shows really aren't a thing anymore, and so that's just kind of one example of things shifting, Certainly the rise of our digital products, like you mentioned, the e-news that you get, the daily report that you get every day, the rise of email and people being so connected at all times they are expecting information to be delivered to their inbox.
Speaker 2:We actually occasionally will do a breaking news product.
Speaker 2:It's not something that we put out really often we reserve it for things like news Exactly but it's important because people are expecting to be in the know all the time.
Speaker 2:So certainly the rise of digital and then, of course, social media you know that's a huge part of how we're getting news out to the community, but it certainly, you know community but it certainly, you know, faces challenges, as people are open to putting their opinion in the world as well on anything that we might be writing about. Or, you know, I know it's a struggle across many media platforms when there's kind of keyboard warriors out there that are willing to just share their thoughts and opinions on stuff that's put out. So it's kind of a good and evil thing. But it has been a huge rise in how information is brought to the public. So I think that, to me, is the biggest shift that I've seen over the time, is the shift in how people are expecting their information to be delivered to them and then us having to make sure that we're shifting the ways that we're doing it to fulfill that need.
Speaker 1:So that's so true. I mean we see the same thing right, our clients and our community. We've adapted again through the social, through this platform, through our podcast right To try to get in front of folks how they want to hear the information. And certainly we know there's a ton of information to provide and it's finding that right medium and you guys have certainly covered the game on that. How have you seen your print subscriptions and print product? Have you seen a decline in that?
Speaker 2:You know it's funny actually I mentioned I've been with the publication for 12 years and our print subscriber number has been level the entire 12 years I've been here has been level the entire 12 years I've been here. I liken that. You know, niche publications, I think, have been okay in that space and that tends to be because the stories that you find in main biz you're not finding on CNN, You're not finding on Fox News, You're not finding them anyplace else. They are truly homegrown stories that are here in Maine and specifically B2B stories. So it's really helped us keep our subscriber base consistent. You know, the other piece of that is our goal is to reach business decision makers. They are the people who need the information that we are bringing to the market, the market, and so that number of people in Maine sort of stays level as people retire out, other people are coming into those positions and so it's really allowed us to keep that base of truly engaged subscribers to our publication pretty level with what we have seen.
Speaker 1:I would say nowadays, especially with the rise of email and social and all that stuff, the one thing I like about your print publication in general is it is a physical, tangible item that I leave on my desk. Usually I read it Friday afternoon when you send me to eMag magazine, and then it shows up on Monday and I pass around the office after I might have looked through it again. But you also give us things like the book of lists and those type you know the fact books and those are still on my conference table right now and we do refer to them and those are kind of timeless publications that are tangible and gosh. You know, nowadays being able to grab something is actually kind of cool, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting we hear that feedback a lot where people actually enjoy being able to shut the screen and kind of not have the distraction of this email popped up or I need to go here and just really focus on the pub.
Speaker 2:We do get audited and our research tells us that people spend on average, about 15 to 30 minutes with the print publication every two weeks. So that's great. But yes to your point, we do have resource guides and those are intended for people to be able to use in their ongoing business life. You know, the book of lists is a great tool for prospecting for businesses and making sure that they hit all of the folks in any particular vertical industry that they're looking for. The fact book. It's a great resource if people are, you know, relocating a business to Maine or expanding their business within Maine, like, where are the regions, where are the locations that I can take most advantage of the resources of that area to help strengthen my business? So, yeah, it's our goal not only to be the person providing the timely news, but also providing those resources to help make sure businesses are successful.
Speaker 1:So, with all that research you're doing, what are you I mean, obviously you guys have a great team of journalists out there what are you hearing from the business owners that are their biggest challenges and struggles these days?
Speaker 2:you know, in our market, yeah, I mean, like I mentioned when we first started talking, we do these sessions where we go all around the state and we are talking to business leaders. We have some editorial roundtables with them where we're asking business leaders to sit with our editorial team and answer that exact question. And across the board and I always say we don't have the solution to this, but just take comfort in the fact that you aren't alone but across the board we hear hiring continues to be a struggle for folks. You know the two things that aren't necessarily related to business in terms of how business owners operate, but are housing and childcare, and those severely impact the availability of workers and the reliability of workers to be coming to work. And those are things that people are struggling with all over our state and, quite frankly, all over the region and nationally. But it tends to be hiring continues to be a struggle. And then the housing and the childcare struggles make it so that they are really having to think differently about how they're having their employees in the workspace, how they're accommodating employees, what you know what accommodations they're willing to make for people and just kind of struggling with what that looks like. The other thing I think that across the board. People are trying to just figure out what it should look like.
Speaker 2:Is the return from COVID? You know, we worked remotely for two years and people showed they could do it well. And now you have employees that are struggling with why do I want to come in? Because I can work from home and swap my laundry at the same time and still get the work done. But you know, as business leaders there's not really the culture and the connection between employees. So it's sort of that give and take of. I want to, you know, reward my employees that have shown that they can perform remotely as well as build some sort of company culture and we hear people talking about. They're really struggling to figure out what that balance looks like and everybody's done it differently. Some people have mandated time in the office, some people have gone back to fully being in the office, some people have remained fully remote and figured out a mix of things. It runs the gamut, but people are really struggling with figuring out that culture piece and how that's going to work.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Both of those items really have hit home with us, even on our level. I mean, this year, you know, I'm introducing a flexible spending account for depending care to try to help my employees get to work, because this summer I had employees that couldn't afford to do summer day camp and things like, even though I, you know, we take great care of them in other ways. It just childcare has gotten atrociously expensive and it was was okay. I either need to work from home five days a week and babysit or you can't afford, particularly in the hospitality world. Folks, we're in the Kennebunks, right, it's a very rich area. Real estate is not cheap, Rents are not cheap and folks certainly our clients are buying real estate to house their employees because they don't have any other choice. They're not going to have employees if they don't. So that's really-.
Speaker 2:We've seen that around. I know Rangeley, saddleback Mountain did a lot of that this year where they worked really hard Sugarloaf as well on getting some of that housing for their employees while they have the mountain open, because otherwise they just, you know, if you don't have people, staff to work at the mountain, you can't open for the winter, and so that's been a real struggle, especially sometimes in those rural communities that they really that's what they depend on for their year.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And it's that return to work, that culture piece, the remote work. I mean we've seen it. I mean I have remote employees but you're right, you lose. The thing I always struggle with is how do I train someone new, how do I get them built in, how do I build the culture, how do I get them trained up to where I want? And then how, you know, how do I maintain that culture? And you know, certainly we I talk to business leaders all the time. You know my peers because they say how are you guys doing? You know some people say, okay, we do. Everyone comes to the office for a week a year. You know, I'll fly you in from wherever you are in the country to be here. We have a week of parties and celebrations and meetings and whatever you know, and other people say, no, we just kind of let it, it just works, or whatever. And that's been a real big struggle for me. So I certainly I guess I need to get to one of the in-person events.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's why I'm saying these are universal things that everybody is trying to figure out, and I keep saying I don't have the answer, but at least you know it, you're in it with everybody else.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well, awesome. So when you know, as you're discovering, what the challenges are, how are you as an editorial board and as journalists, how are you really picking out stories and businesses to highlight? And I love that. You guys really, you know each issue of the publication kind of has a theme and you're really going all around the state. You're not sticking in one spot. You know, sometimes there's businesses we've never heard of or people we've never heard of. They're doing amazing things. How are you guys coming across that and choosing what to write about?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's really interesting. Our editorial team I mean I have to shout them out because they do such a good job of finding those sort of unrecognized gems and and and telling their story and it's in a lot of different ways you we have a writer who lives up on MDI so she's really in tune with what's happening kind of in that coastal area of Maine, but she's also really well versed in real estate and is talking with developers in Portland and in Caribou and you know Rangeley and so you know I think a lot of it is helped by the fact that we do make a concerted effort to get ourselves personally feet on the street all around the state. It helps us know what's going on, what we need to be aware of, what have we missed that you guys have going on in this region? And then you know the writers just take it from there. They are going to events, they are talking to people and trying to learn. I think some of the biggest questions are what's going well and what are you struggling with are two of the biggest questions that lead us to information. But, as you mentioned, each issue does have a focus and so that sort of guides where the editorial team is thinking in their brain for what they need to concentrate on for the next issue and then from there they're just digging into. You know they do a great job of making connections all around the state, whether it be with, you know, local economic development officers in towns to really understand what's going on in certain regions, whether it's with, you know, associations like Merida or a main association of nonprofits, and just really making sure that we are in touch with what's happening with the different businesses so that when it comes to looking at what are we going to write about that we have great sources and then just really kind of brainstorming as a team and thinking about what's hot right now, what topics are people talking about, what topics are people struggling with and how do we make sure that we are showcasing those and highlighting them.
Speaker 2:We may not always bring the answer, as I mentioned, but recognizing that other people might be talking or struggling with the same thing, or highlighting, you know, great stories of success, highlighting stories of how people have overcome something I always say, you know, to me I can't learn anything from you if you tell me like I had this great idea to start a business and I was having a beer at the bar and the guy next to me said, great, I'll invest, and you got $5 million. Like that doesn't tell me anything, but if you want to tell me about, I had this great idea and I had my first prototype and brought it to market and it failed and this is what went wrong. And then my investors backed out and this is what I did. Like those are the things that you really learn how to, how to persevere and how to build your business and how to, you know, carry on and move forward, forward.
Speaker 2:And so a lot of times we're trying to tell those stories to really help business owners understand it's not all. You know rainbows and sunshine, that it's a struggle a lot of times, and here's how you can work through it and here's how you know people have found unique solutions to things. I think those are always fun stories to hear. Here's unique approaches to how people are solving problems or dealing with their business approaches to how people are solving problems or dealing with their business.
Speaker 1:So you know, that's really really cool. I love that kind of process and how would you recommend that? We've certainly done some podcasts on PR and promoting your business, but how would you recommend if businesses want to get in front of you or any publication you know or media outlet, what's the best way to do that? Is it send a press release and pray that you pick it up, or what's that look like? What's your recommendation for that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I definitely think it's certainly not a one-pronged approach. So it's not send us a press release and then just go home and I hope they reach out to me. It's out much like a sales industry. The editorial industry is based on connections. Our team needs to know that their sources are reliable, that they're trustworthy, that they're going to give them current, correct information and that they're going to get back to them in a timely manner. So if you are a person that is bringing expertise to the editorial staff, so for sure be sending in your press releases. Make sure that we know what's going on in your company, because that's also sort of keeping your company as top of mind as we're thinking about things, but also just providing your expertise to the editorial team, making sure that they know when you're reaching out.
Speaker 2:You're not reaching out to say, hey, let me tell you about us and why we're a great company, but you're reaching out. You're not reaching out to say, hey, let me tell you about us and why we're a great company, but you're reaching out to say, hey, here's an interesting thing that's happening in the field of HR, here's an interesting thing that's happening in real estate. Or here's something that I know folks are struggling with. Here's a unique idea around it. I don't know if that's interesting to you, but here's a take that I had that could be interesting. Maybe others have different solutions to it.
Speaker 2:But sort of looking at it from that broad view of an industry challenge or something that's really hot right now, that has that is topical, as opposed to let me tell you why my company and I are great. It's more, you know, at the end of the day, we are providing information for business owners, and so what they are looking for is what can help them do better in their business, and that's what we are trying to bring to the table. That's those stories of how people have persevered, that's the stories about, you know, unique happenings in a certain vertical market, any of that type of stuff. So just showcasing yourself as an expert, continuing to kind of put yourself in front of that, you know, certainly connecting with our editorial, showing that you can be this trusted source for them, a reliable source with current, correct information, is invaluable to them.
Speaker 1:And I would say that correct information is probably the most important.
Speaker 2:It's very valuable.
Speaker 1:We don't want you to have an egg on your face, just like we don't want it Exactly so. Have you heard of any success stories? You guys have done a great article on X, y or Z and that's led to results in any fashion, whether it's legislation or business accomplishment or just kind of promoting a business. What successes do you? What do you guys see as success when you are writing? I guess?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, as I mentioned, what we're trying to do is just make sure that we are bringing the information that people need on a daily basis, and so I don't know that I can necessarily point to a particular legislation or a particular story, point to a particular legislation or a particular story. What I can say is when we are out in the community, we regularly have people who know who we are. That to your point. Like you were saying, I get the daily report at noon every day. Like that makes me so glad that you know it comes at noon every day. At half the time I think like oh, people don't know when it comes in, it just comes in and they see it, so that you know in and you know. That's who yelled at me across the hall.
Speaker 1:Did you see that article? Exactly like that's. Those are what yeah.
Speaker 2:So just knowing that you know, getting that feedback, that we are a relevant part of people's um, business, business learning, business decision making, just continuing to keep themselves in the know for the state of mean, that's great feedback for us to receive.
Speaker 2:I will say, conversely, when we hear that we've gotten something wrong, we hear it and it's almost reassuring in a way, because if we got something wrong and nobody was telling us, then we're concerned because that means nobody's reading us or nobody's paying attention to us.
Speaker 2:If we got something wrong and you call us out on it and we will, you know, obviously if it warrants we issue any sort of apology or update or anything like that. But just saying the fact that people notice it and feel the need to to point it out to us is reassuring because that tells me that you count on me for that information being in front of you and you're paying attention or what that looks like. But all I can tell you is, when we go into these communities, the amount of just love is the only word I can think of for it, but the amount of kind of you know we appreciate you, we need your product, we need you guys to be telling the stories of main businesses. You know you don't get these stories elsewhere. There's certainly, you know there are other no-transcript business stories, but I don't think to the depth and to the amount that we are putting out on a daily and every two-week basis and we're really proud of that.
Speaker 1:I mean I see all the time the other major publications in the state cite your articles and your content.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is great. You know, that's a great feeling. We try to do that. We try to make sure that we're as up-to-date and cutting-edge and aware as possible. Yeah, which is great. You know, that's a great feeling. We try to do that. We try to make sure that we're as up to date and cutting edge and aware as possible.
Speaker 1:Which is great, and certainly you know we're talking a lot about the main market and main biz in particular, but there are publications like yours across the country. I know there's New Hampshire and Massachusetts of a company.
Speaker 2:It's called new england business media and so our company also owns worcester business journal and hartford business journal. So we have I'm in maine, we have a an owner and publisher in worcester and an owner publisher in hartford, but we do. There are business publications all over the united states and we actually have an association where we learn from each other and take best practices from each other. And you know the editors I don't know 85 publications will get together every year and talk about like how do you guys figure this out and how do you do this and what works for you in this situation, which is great because it only makes us better at what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. When you get together with everyone, where's the industry growing? Where's the? Where are you guys? What's the next steps for main biz? What's the next step for the industry in terms of business publications?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, certainly, digital is just the growth of where everything is focused. Right now, we are very fortunate that people still value our print publication and still want to receive it. As I mentioned, we haven't really seen a decline in subscribership for print, but we have seen an increase in the want for all things digital, both from an advertiser standpoint and from a consuming news standpoint. And so just figuring out you know what those platforms look like, making sure that we're pushing content in a way that people want to receive it and during times that people want to receive it. You know we are a business publication, so we try to be conscious of the fact that maybe we shouldn't be pushing content out on a Saturday or Sunday on LinkedIn or Twitter, because that's the time for people to be with their families, those changes and sort of the how people are, how and when people are consuming their news. But it's absolutely digital. It's figuring out where that growth is.
Speaker 2:Certainly AI, I mean in the news industry, we have to be really, really cautious with AI. You know, I certainly am not going to write an article, but there have been things like I mean, you're not using ChatGP to write your stories. We are not using ChatGP to write stories. I have writers on the street, but we have used some AI in design work, which has been really interesting. My art director has used it to create covers that have been really interesting. We had a cover last year where one of our writers, renee Cordes, had written a story on banking and Matt is our art director. He had created a cover that kind of had a Jimmy Stewart-esque person with a banking behind him and it was a really cool kind of matchup of AI, which was great. But then we had to sort of internally look at how are we marking those things? Again, we try to be a fully transparent publication and we don't want to be putting anything out that we're not appropriately citing or marketing, and so it's sort of how do we make sure that we're being transparent with the fact that this was generated using AI?
Speaker 2:So that you know that, I think is still a big unknown for a lot of people. So that you know that I think is still a big unknown for a lot of people, um, and and we're no stranger to that as well figuring it out, um, and then you know, looking ahead to next year, my, the big thing that's on my brain right now. Um and you're probably you know up on this as well is there's going to be a lot of uh, family medical leave stuff that's going into effect in 2026 that I think a lot of people are going to be talking about in 2025 and trying to figure out what I mean. It affects every business and that's what we are is talking to businesses, so that's we have a webinar that we're hosting in September on paid family leave.
Speaker 1:I think we've just started promoting it. We already have over a hundred registrants for that webinar, just of our clients and our partners, and I mean we we see a lot of folks. We have Luke Monaghan, who's the director of Paid Family, joining us that day and you know we're all the accounts that we work with, the attorneys we work with everyone is kind of looking. We're all looking for answers, right, and I'm really hoping that Luke is going to give us some of those answers and it's definitely the next big thing for us.
Speaker 2:It's keeping us busy and you're right, it's going to keep everybody busy. Yeah, it's affecting every business and so we're looking at it. But, yeah, so that I think, similarly to that point AI, people are looking for answers and you know the attorneys I don't know that they have them yet because there isn't really any established law, so they're trying to figure out what that looks like, and so some of these things are becoming really hot and we are reporting on them. But the struggle is also we can't report on the end yet, because we don't know what the end is, we don't know what the result is, we don't know what the final decisions have been on things. A thing and we'll keep you updated as we're learning more and, as you know, decisions get made but I think that that family medical leave act is going to really have a lot of uh impact on businesses around the state next year, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:So what? I always like to give people one takeaway, one takeaway. What if someone had to, uh, come to you with a story or use you as a resource, be a resource to you? What would you want of them for that? If someone wanted to be a resource to you guys, or be a source or give a story to you, what's the one thing that you want them to be thinking about first and foremost and bring to?
Speaker 2:you. I guess at the end of the day, I would just say how is this information that you're trying to put out there impactful to other business people? What is the big thing that businesses need to know about this? And that's your starting point. Again, it's not going to be a story about my great I don't know widget company and how I figured out how to make orange widgets Like it needs to be.
Speaker 2:I saw something lacking in this field and it had such an impact because of X, y and Z.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the great stories this year not certainly not any unearned press here, we've talked about them a lot as well is a company called Timber HP.
Speaker 2:They were born, I believe, out of the University of Maine, and it's this new kind of way to use wood fiber in building homes, and so they were looking at an industry that Maine has had for years, which is timber and lumber, but was for sure dying off with the loss of a lot of our paper mills, and took that mill in Madison and revitalized it, and now they are producing a whole new product, but still using the same industry that came out of Maine, and so, just you know, that's one of those stories. That's like an amazing innovation story of utilizing a product that Maine has been known for to solve a problem that was in the building industry, and utilizing Maine resources and Maine industries and things that were already existing in our state to make that happen. So just figuring that out, like what problem am I solving in the business community? Or what problem do I see in the business community that I think needs some attention drawn on it, and why is that important for businesses and for business decision makers?
Speaker 1:Good advice. Good advice. So well, we've really taken a deep dive into how business publications work today, so thank you very much. We appreciate that. How do folks get in touch with you or MainBiz if they have questions or want to learn more? What's website social stuff?
Speaker 2:sure, uh, yeah, our website, mainbizbiz, um, you can find we have our events page that has all of our events listed up for the rest of the year and we'll soon be working on 2025 events. Before we know it, and any of our staff, their information is right on that page the uh, the editorial staff, the advertising staff, um, and then connecting with us on LinkedIn, facebook, twitter. We put our news out on all of those platforms and really are just trying to make sure that, no matter how people are trying to find us, that they are able to do so. You can subscribe to our daily report, weekly report, real Estate Insiders, and you can get a subscription that allows you to have unlimited access to the website, as well as the print publication and our e-news right there from the website as well.
Speaker 1:Awesome, thank you, thank you. Thank you. Certainly all of our listeners don't forget like, follow, share rate review, subscribe at Small Business Big World, wherever you get your podcasts, and, again, any questions, you certainly can always reach out to us at podcast at papertrailscom. Andrea, thanks so much for joining me and we'll talk to everybody next week. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Small Business Big World. This podcast is a production of Papertrails. We are a payroll and HR company based in Kennebunk, maine, and we serve small and mid-sized businesses across New England and the country. If you found this podcast helpful, don't forget to follow us at at Paper Trails Payroll across all social media platforms and check us out at papertrailscom for more information. As a reminder, the views, opinions and thoughts expressed by the hosts and guests alone. The material presented in this podcast is for general information purposes only and should not be considered legal or financial advice. By inviting this guest to our podcast, paper Trails does not imply endorsement of.
