What Not to Cut When Egg Prices Are Killing Your Margins: Curtis Novak, Alltech

Egg prices can fall faster than your feed bill, and that’s when “normal” nutrition habits start burning cash. We sit down with Curtis Novak, PhD, Director of Poultry at Alltech, to get practical about what layer farms can do right now to reduce feed cost per ton without accidentally crashing egg production, shell quality, or livability. Curtis brings both bench science and field experience, and he doesn’t dodge the uncomfortable reality that some operations are forced to consider pulling older, lower-producing flocks earlier than planned.

We dig into the decision tree Curtis uses with producers: start with the biggest cost drivers like energy, fat, and protein, then tighten formulation by thinking in amino acids instead of just crude protein. From there, we talk feed additives with a hard ROI lens. Which products protect gut health and reduce losses from issues like E. coli, and which ones can be paused when the only goal is survival? Curtis also explains why enzymes often belong in the “do not cut” category because they’re relatively inexpensive and can unlock nutrients that lower total diet cost.

We also zoom out beyond nutrition, because management and data decide whether any diet works. “You can’t feed yourself out of poor management” becomes a real on-farm standard when ventilation, water, feed delivery, or wet litter problems drag performance down. We discuss how accurate egg counters and better flock data help you spot row-by-row issues faster, and why investing in pullet quality and uniformity sets you up for profitable long-cycle layers out to 90 to 100 weeks.
Contect with Curtis on Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/curtis-novak-3961b8a2/
Subscribe for more producer-first conversations, share this with a farmer or nutritionist who’s feeling the squeeze, and leave a review so more poultry teams can find it. What’s the hardest cost decision you’re facing right now?

Hosted by Brandon Mulnix - Director of Sales - Prism Controls
The Poultry Leadership Podcast is only possible because of its sponsor, Prism Controls
Find out more about them at www.prismcontrols.com

Transcript

Egg Prices And Feed Costs Collide

Brandon Mulnix 0:28

Welcome to the Fulfruit Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Mulnick. And on today's episode, it couldn't be more timely with egg prices at an all-time level and farmers having to make tough decisions. We're going to talk today with an expert when it comes to feed additives, and we're going to get right to the bottom of how we can help you today as farmers navigate this market, especially as it comes to your feed and your cost, things like that. So with me today, I have Curtis Novak, PhD, which I believe is probably the highest level of education I've had on the podcast so far. And so I'm excited. He's the director of poultry at AllTech in Ridley, where he leads the company's North America Poultry Nutrition and Feed Additive Division. He holds a PhD in animal nutrition from the University of Nebraska and spent 16 years at PRINA as a technical service nutritionist and division manager before joining AllTech in 2023. Curtis brings both the bench science and the field experience. He worked with commercial layer, broiler, and turkey operations across the country and has a particular focus on gut health, organic mineral nutrition, and practical feed cost management. What a bio. Curtis, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, thank you, Brandon. Appreciate it.

Brandon Mulnix 1:43

So,

Curtis Novak’s Road To Poultry

Brandon Mulnix 1:44

Curtis, tell me uh about yourself that was not in the bio, like where you fit into this industry.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Sure. Well, I actually was born in uh Nebraska, so I'm a I'm a husker at at heart. But actually, my journey is not exactly like a lot of people in the poultry industry. I I started off with cattle and hogs and and uh row crop back in the day. So that was kind of my base. And uh so when I went to school, the thoughts was to originally go to veterinary school. And that's for my time teaching at at Virginia Tech, that was kind of the it was 80% of the people coming into the department back then, it was was pre-vet. So that didn't really work out like I thought it would. So uh I went into the journey of of nutrition and uh originally was gonna go into swag nutrition because I knew the industry we raised feral-to-finish hogs back when I was a kid. And I thought, well, that would make sense because I already know how to raise them. I didn't manage first or managed hogs before that would be the thing to do. Well, kind of find out that it's not as easy just to run into those situations at different universities. And I got accepted into the programs, but they didn't have any assistantship, no money to go. Uh, it just so happened that Nebraska, they my major professor, uh Dr. Sheila Scheidler, had assistantship, and I said, Okay, I guess I'm gonna do poultry. So that's where it all started. That not the normal process into burrs, never raised any burrs before outside the typical family processing things we had back in the 70s and 80s, you know, and got into that and really never looked back. Did my master's PhD both in Nebraska and then my first job was at Virginia Tech University. So I was on the faculty there for seven years doing research extension teaching. Thought that was the way to go back in the day. You know, I knew a lot of people. I I was able to start up a good research program, applied research program to help support the industry. And uh found out that I didn't really like that that setup as much as I probably thought I would have. So went into Pyrana and that's that's where I reside today in the industry, and I love doing it. You know, part of my part of my why. Everybody always always asks people what's their why, what do you what are you doing, what you're doing? And it really when I think back on it, I think it's I'm not doing a real crop or raising hogs like I used to, but I am supporting an industry that's still agriculturally based. And if I can give back to that and support them to help them be successful, that's what I try to do. That's what keeps me driving every day. So that's kind of different things that probably you didn't have in your bio that's uh that's uh that's part of my life and my uh my journey.

Brandon Mulnix 4:04

Well, with 16 years at Perina and this Virginia Tech Academia, I mean, that what did both of those chapters teach you as a re as a result or around nutritional science?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

You know, I think that the basic nutrition, I I learned a lot from the university side of things, just just better understanding those core nutrients and how they work together and what's what's really required, especially when you start working with the industry on an extension basis. You learn a lot of pieces of that. I probably didn't understand the economics as well as I did until I got into the actual industry and seeing, okay, well, if I make a change here on, you know, if I increase my my cost of feed per ton by five bucks, that's probably half a cent per per dozen that it costs. You know, I didn't understand those relationships back when I was at the university. When you're doing research, I mean you're very focused. You're very focused on a topic, and you and you know, you're trying to provide impact back to those customers and that that extension group that you work with, but you're not looking at the system as a whole. When you get into the industry, now you gotta start looking at the the economics of everything that and that's just not the feed, which is 70% of the the cost of this, but also all the other pieces of it that that can have impact on that that cost per dozen and that that cost per pound of meat that goes out the door, which is really important now. The economic side is probably the difference that that I learned when I when I left the university and went into the industry was you know it's now it's all economics. Let's try to figure out how best to make this work for the customer. And little things nutritionally you can shift to have a major impact on the that feed cost. And so that when you're in the university, you try to hit everything exactly right. And you get in the feed mail, not everything is exact. And I think that if you can tweak a little bit here and there, you can save $5 pretty easy today. Which talk about the egg market. I mean, with the egg market being where it is, five bucks pays a lot. So it makes a big difference today versus what it was, say, a year ago when our egg markets were really high. So yeah, that's probably the biggest things I noticed. And just the politics, politics and everything. Politics in university is way different than politics in a in an industry. Way different. And uh probably the speed of which things are done as well. University takes their time. Sometimes I felt like I wasted a lot of my time just sitting in meetings, committee meetings. If I'm in a meeting in the industry industry or or where I work today, I don't have some kind of action plans within 30 minutes, then I'm wasting everybody's time. And ultimately the producers. So it's it's just a different pace. I like that pace, but I I do like the I like the ability to give back to the customers better this way. I can have some direct impact on what they do and how they live. And uh if I can make them successful by doing what I do, that's great.

Nutrition Science Meets Real Economics

Brandon Mulnix 6:38

So which one of those positions, or maybe both, have prepared you for the conversations that you're having today with the producers?

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Um I think the on the academic side, I would say that it gave me an understanding of different different products and different efficiencies on things that actually do work. Um when you're when you're running research for six six, well, seven years there and you know, six, seven years at the university, you kind of get a feel for what things work, what things don't, how you need to work with certain things. And and it gives you a lot more confidence at what you do in the field when you get out to the industry. Okay, these things are gonna work, it's gonna save you five, eight bucks. I believe in it because I tested it. It it gave me that backing, that that understanding of different feed additives at that point that that could that could come back and actually impact that that producer. I think too that the the the cost of everything, I mean, just knowing the differences in some of these ingredient costs and the values that it brings, you know, over time as a nutritionist, you figure out in your head pretty quick on what things can work and what things won't. And uh I always call, I tell my new nutritionists, it's it's kind of a kind of a gut thing. It sounds bad, it's not scientific, but it's it's it's where you think things need to go. And if you do this for 25, 30 years, you kind of just have a feel for, hey, this is what we need to do. Bring this ingredient in, we'll do the final diets, but it's gonna save you this much money. You know, so it's just it's it's real time, it's real quick. You you don't have to have a lot of time to do these things over, you know, you can't take a month to get it done, your producer would be out of business. They're always out of money. So how do we how do we maximize that that time and that understanding of all these ingredients and diets, and how can we make it best work? And that's I probably learned that mostly at Purina when I was there, just understanding working with all the different producers. I might have had hundreds of producers I worked with back in the day when I first started. And so those economic times, and as we were talking about a little bit ago, uh, just about the cyclic nature of the layer industry, you know, everything goes up and down. So you gotta be ready for that time where it is tough, like right now. I mean, it it's you gotta be ready for it. What do we do? What do we put in place to make sure that that producer makes it through to the long haul? So I I think both of those things really trained me in a way to be prepared for some of these things. And it's just repetition. It's just it's just don't get stressed about it. It is what it is. Work out the problem. What what is the problem you gotta try to solve and and put it together and and uh move it forward with confidence. So that's probably what I've learned that over the last 25 years. I'm aging myself, but but it's it's uh all those pieces, you know, nobody anybody you talk to, I mean, all those pieces add to what you you are at the end and what you've learned. That's your that's your that's your skill set. And uh that just giving that back today is is you know enjoyable for me to help everybody out.

Brandon Mulnix 9:14

So

Surviving The Down Cycle With Flock Cuts

Brandon Mulnix 9:15

you mentioned you're aging yourself, but with 25 years of experience in the industry, you've experienced similar times where egg prices were bottoms and and input costs were high. So this isn't your first rodeo in this.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

No. No, not the first time. Um good and bad with it. You know, if you got, you know, depending on what the producer has for markets and how they're marketing their eggs, if they're at a cost plus deal, they're probably doing a little bit better in this thing. If they're out there on the open market, it's not very good at all. But they probably made a lot of money when when the egg market was really good, you know. So depending on the customer, it it makes a difference on what you need to try to achieve when you're doing nutrition or adding additives or how you're trying to help them. Because one one group of of producers are going to be doing okay, not great, but they're not just losing money like crazy. The other one is having a tough time right now. And you know, making decisions on you know, what percentage of my birds do I just remove right now because I can save more money by not having those birds and not feeding them, especially with the way you know feed prices are right now, which is which is counterproductive what a what a typical producer or farmer wants to think like, you know, and uh but at tough times you have to have tough uh reactions to things and and new plans. And I think that's that's what people are struggling with right now. Do I leave my operation half full? Which seems crazy, but if if you're not losing that money, then you're probably better off long term.

Brandon Mulnix 10:38

It is tough when you're having to make long-term decisions. Be in a year ago, the decision was how do I find more birds and how do I react to avian influenza and how do I you know capture the eight dollar market? And now it's how do I cull birds so that way I'm not losing money on every dozen that I'm selling.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yep. Yeah, it's totally different, different process. It doesn't seem like it was that long ago, but that we were in a different situation. And I think it's it's it whether their markets are are in the organic division or commercial egg, what have you, everybody's getting hurt the same, you know. So everybody's having these decisions. And and with the laying in industry, it's not like you can just get new bullets tomorrow either. That's that's a long-term process. And there's planning sometimes out two years out there on on bullets, you know, you can't just go grab some more. So to make a decision to get rid of, you know, half a million birds thing, that's a that's not taken lightly. And you gotta make sure you got some backup plan on that, you know, eventually, so that when the SAG market turns around, which it will eventually, you have birds in there to make some money now. So it's it's it's a gamble. It is. I mean, but uh you got to make those decisions.

Cutting Diet Costs Nutrients And Additives

Brandon Mulnix 11:42

So let's put ourselves on the farm. We're the farm manager and we're being asked to make those tough decisions on cutting feed cost. Help I I I've not been on the farm in that position. Help walk through the decision-making processes that you've been part of or you would recommend from from your perspective and your experience.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Yeah, it's uh it's a tough, you know, because we're when we go out to a set of diets for as a nutritionist, we're we're trying to optimize production. You know, we're trying to get as many eggs out of those birds as you can. Now, sometimes, you know, all nutritionists are a bit different, but you know, they they may shy on the sh on the on the conservative side on certain things like amino acids or or uh enzymes, those types of things, which are pretty prevalent today. I think we need to ratchet that back. It's it's you know, you've got to look at your highest priced ingredients or nutrients, even, you know, protein and and fat and energy, your two probably highest input costs just because the makeup of the diet. So if you can look at those nutrients, try to reduce some cost on the feed side, I think that's the first thing you need to start to look at. Because there's always, always other things out there. You you're looking at the nutrients for certain production, but then you also have additives that might be helping with, say, E. coli or salmonella or plostridia, uh, even coxy. So you gotta balance that out so that you don't just create a train wreck. You know, you know, you need to maintain your eggs, you've got to maintain your taste weights if you keep those hens around. So the first thing would be nutrients, you know, get those back in line where you probably need to be that that's not necessarily crashing the birds, but maybe not optimal, which sounds bad, but I'm saying that's the nutritional. I'm not trying to optimize, I'm trying to survive, you know. So that you go into survival mode. Then I would look at those ingredients, you know, is it the pre-improtics, the you know, different additives we use to help with health? You know, are they all important? You know, it's I think when you're doing that and you got a good aid market, you can be proactive. You can put in stuff in there that, okay, we typically have E. coli, you know, peritonitis and later birds, those kind of things. Uh, we're looking at optimizing shells, you know, after 40 weeks of age. Do we really need those right now? And I'm, you know, I'm selling additives. I'm I'm saying that, hey, let's start to look at these things because I think we need to look, we need to evaluate what what's really important right now just to make sure and to make sure this producer is here in six months from now versus, you know, I c I can survive somewhat out there with with the the breadth of no uh you know sales that I have, but this one producer may not because I'm adding X number of dollars with with additives from different companies. So I think you really got to look at that too. What is the most important thing that you need to do to optimize health, but give them enough enough nutrients, they they keep laying eggs and stay even to keep in the ballpark as far as what the market needs, but you're not throwing a bunch of money out the door. So anything you can do there on those two levels, I think we need to be doing now, in addition to looking at just removing a flock. I mean, that's that's the other thing. I think that that that's the hardest thing, I think, out of this. I mean, I can do a lot of things on the diets and reduce diet costs by easily right now with by you know 10, 20 bucks or more, you know, just to make some slight changes. I mean, I think we can still keep these birds moving forward. But those those two things are probably the biggest things we need to be evaluating as a nutritionist right now, make sure these producers get through this, this, this cycle that we're in right now.

Brandon Mulnix 14:49

And if you had to talk about like if you know, if you had 10 flocks in front of you, which flock are you are you would you consider saying, okay, this is where I might put priorities around DPOP for you know a certain type of bird, a certain type of age, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I'd probably, you know, right now I'd probably start with my worst, worst producing oldest flock probably. Get those out. They I mean, even if they're at 65 weeks, which used to be the time we used to mold back in the day. Um, you know, if there's 65 weeks and they're down there below, you know, 90% right now, I think you need to be looking at those. If you got something that's less than that, you're just feeding a bunch of high-priced feed to them and you're not getting your eggs out of them, and you're not you're not paying for that at all. So I would I would start at that level uh just to just to start to move them off earlier than you normally do. I mean, a lot of these flocks are going out at onmal cycle at 90 to 100 weeks of age, you know. So if you can start to pull those off a little bit earlier, you're you're saving some of that income or that cost across your whole system. You've got to be thinking about the whole system, you know, where do I need to get back down? What what do I have for pull that's coming in? You know, that's that's a part of this too. And uh, but I would start pulling out some flocks earlier than what you normally do. And and actually some of those that that are close, maybe they're four weeks, six weeks out from going out anyway on your normal cycle, put them back to uh a diet that's just gonna maintain eggs, get them out of there, keep them alive, keep them moving, give, keep them producing, and pull them out early. That that's gonna optimize your your your uh at least maintain some type of level of income and uh you know keep the other ones in there, keep your your markets happy. We've still got to produce eggs, but uh not the expense of of going out of business because you're losing so much. So I would start there. I'd start at the older flocks, those ones that are getting close to going out, pull that back, use that as some downtime. It doesn't hurt to do that and do everything better. You know, everybody always gets strapped, and you're you got an operation of a million birds, two million birds, seven million birds on a on a site. You're always you're always stretching everybody all the time. So, okay, you pull those people off, you put it into your rest of your system, you can optimize your system a lot better, make sure you get everything or done right for sure, too. There might be some be some layoffs too. That that's part of it too. But so that's where I would start at least, and then then definitely do your nutrition adjustments, which we should be doing today, to get us through this.

Brandon Mulnix 17:02

So as

You Can’t Outfeed Poor Management

Brandon Mulnix 17:03

we talk about managing these birds, you mentioned something in our pre-conversation that said you can't feed yourself out of port management. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 17:12

You know, there's uh if if a producer's not doing what they're doing on the farm, whether they're they've got well wet litter conditions in a in a cage-free house, if they're not maintaining their feed like they're supposed to, I've seen pieces places where people are actually only feeding twice to limit feed in a in a bird, and uh they're out of feed by the time they get to four or five o'clock in the afternoon, they don't feed anymore. Some of those things you just can't you can't out feed that. It's just there's just no way. You know, we we try to, my my best flocks out there is when everything works perfect, which doesn't happen too often, obviously. But when they do, these birds will do awesome. These birds can do what they need to do. They're bred the way they're supposed to be producing eggs to meat, they'll do awesome. Then you can actually optimize some nutrition and you can get them to smoke. But if you don't manage those birds right, if you're not managing your your uh your ventilation correct, you got temperatures are too high or too cold, feed's not getting in front of the birds, your water lines are are clogged. I can't do anything on the nutrition to save that. There's just nothing I can do. You're always gonna have that variability within that flock. And you got too high of a if you got wet litter conditions, you've probably got a higher microbial level in the barn, which is gonna cause issues with enteritis and E. coli and different things like that. And I just I just can't feed past that. Even if you're using some of these additives that we have today, those are more of a a proactive approach. They're not a they're not a treatment. And uh, you know, we don't want to go back into the antibiotic realm as much, you know, anymore either. We're going away from that. So management today is probably the most important thing right now than I would say outside of you know, making sure you got the right nutrition in front of them is is to make sure you're managing the birds, right? Because I I just can't I can't feed them enough. I can't feed them the right nutrients, high levels of nutrients to get past that. Diseases, I mean, diseases have issues too. You got you got MG in your flock, you got uh LT, Horizon, the level of nutrition is probably to get them through that. It is what it is.

Brandon Mulnix 19:04

So as you work with these farmers and as you're talking with them and you're working with your team, I mean, you have a you have a great team. What are some of the what's something you can you're focusing on right now that helps with even the product selection of what they're doing that will help pay off in the end? Where are you focused on for that right now?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Uh as far as feed additives, I would say that you know, we're trying to some of the outside of like the prebiotics, the health type of products, I would say we're trying to optimize things such as amino acids, those types of things to make sure we're feeding on a amino acid basis versus the total protein basis just to just to optimize cost. But yeah, get the information, get the nutrients to the birds. I think that on the additive side, I mean it depending on the cost of everything, I would say you still got to focus on on what their challenge is, you know, outside of just just cost, um, what what other issues do they have? Do that do they have an E. coli issue? If they do, then okay, they're losing more birds, you know. And uh, we probably should be looking at something to help with E. coli, whether it's a vaccination or if it's uh pre-or probiotic, those types of things out there. Those have value. And I think those things have a place where they're they're fairly cheap and economical. They're not crazy priced, you know, like they used to be in the past. So I think they're there's something that can still be beneficial if you get more eggs and you get you get better livability out of those those birds to continue with them. Yeah, more eggs you you get even in a bit down market, you still do better. So if you can do that at a cheaper price, I think that my group needs to be looking at that for sure. And that that helps that just helps with the overall system. And when they come up with their next flock, they're gonna be, you know, more in tune to be ready to roll and and uh have a clean flock, you know, a clean environment going in and with new pullets too. So that those are the things I'm looking at, you know, on a on a core basis, you know, just on on general ingredients for the diets on costs, but then also looking at, okay, exactly what what do they need? What do they need for for maintaining the flock's health? If it's E. coli, I got a certain program for that that's probably economical that it'll get them more eggs. And then we always got to look it back, you know, it's we talked about the economics originally. I mean, it's it's we gotta be looking at bringing in that cost per dozen just to see if that's worthwhile. You know, even if you got an E. coli issue, if it's not gonna move the needle on on egg production or improves livability by X and it still doesn't pay off, then say pull it out. You know, it doesn't I I'm sure that people at All Tech Row wouldn't like me saying that, but but at the end of the day, if I have the if I keep the producer in in the business and moving forward, even if I lose some business, you know, over the six month period, I still got that customer. I can still move him into an economically viable situation and and I can, you know, sell my products, I can sell other people's products, you know, to bring them back in. So the biggest thing is keep that producer on him, because the producer's gone, then you got nothing at the end of the day. So I'd rather shy on the side of my side and help that producer than than have them gone.

Brandon Mulnix 21:56

Well, that's just good business. Uh as I think about being uh L. Member of this industry. Our customers are hurting, but I'm guaranteeing that the Allied are also having their own challenges with it because if our customers are hurting, we're hurting. And and it's we just want them to be in business. Because if they're in business in six months, then they'll they'll have to fix something, replace something, build something down the road. And just being a good partner through this means and it's it's the long term. I mean, that's we all have to ride the same roller coaster together.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah, it's not a short-term game, it's it's a long-term game, and and you got, I mean, like you said, everybody's everybody's getting beat up right now because of this this egg market and changes and all that kind of stuff. But uh, it's it's we're all going through the cycle. We'll come through the cycle on the other side. It's just playing it right and being humane in my mind, too, and and understanding everybody's in this same thing, this thing together, not one group versus another one really right now.

Brandon Mulnix 22:52

No,

Egg Counters And Better Decisions

Brandon Mulnix 22:53

not at all. So I want to take a moment. I'm gonna take just a little bit of a break here to talk about Prism Controls. They are the sponsor of this podcast. And when we talk about feed, we talk about making sure that there's good data to that feed to know where your birds are eating, know where your uh where everything's working. And and one thing that Prism Controls has found over the years is egg counters. Egg counters actually, if you have them on the different rows and tiers, you can understand what your birds are doing. If they're not producing eggs because there's a feed trough that's empty, then your egg production in that general area is going to go down. And with conventional, it's pretty easy. You could see it with cage-free, you're really gonna see it with egg counters. So, one of the key aspects of prism controls is they offer two different types of counters, the IR counters, the tried and true industry standard, and their new egg site cameras that they can count basically on anything. But the accuracy of that data is important, and that's really important to Prism Controls. So, thank you for letting me take that break, audience. I have to promote if you have any questions about egg counting, you have any questions about how we're tracking feed, measuring feed, things like that, please reach out to prismcontrols.com and you can reach the team there and they can help you kind of navigate these these challenging times. So as I come back, I'll add to that, Brandon.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

I think that those are pretty darn important. I mean, I as a nutritionist, I've got to have data to make decisions. And if you don't have the right data, I've got, you know, and they're all good producers, but you know, sometimes the encounters they have are really old or they're dirty, they don't manage them right, you know, those types of things. And if I don't know what a what a house within, say, 15 houses is doing, I've got to look at the whole operation as well. That's not very economical based on different feeding programs and what we're using for feed. And you know, the more information we have, and I think long term, you know, as we go into the new age with AI and everything and bringing everything together, you know, the more you can bring these different platforms together long term, you know, from the from the egg counters to the feed to maybe health management, even looking at, oh God forbid, in the in the future, we got cameras in the in the farms and we're looking at temperatures of birds and just overall flock health. Bringing that into one platform, I think is going to be huge because then you can make decisions, you can make real-time decisions. And if you don't have that connection with everything and all this data, it's just it's just data. And and if you don't use it, you just will not have it, you know. So I think all these data points are are great. I use them all the time as a nutritionist coming out and looking at their operation. I can pinpoint a challenge in a house so much quicker than if it's just across the board. So I yeah, I I like that. I like the I love more data I can get, the better off I can, I can support a customer. So I think those things are those are awesome if they're working right.

Brandon Mulnix 25:34

Well, thank you for that support and just the technology that's out there, whether it's our controller or even the competition's controller, just being able to count eggs is so so much more important because ultimately that's the product that's going out the door, anyways, and that's the result of all the nutrition work that you you and your team's trying to help the farmer with.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Yeah, exactly.

Proving Feed Additives Before Launch

Brandon Mulnix 25:54

So speaking of technology, you're coming from a PhD background, you're coming from a great company in all tech. Talk about one technology thing or one thing that you just wish that producers understood a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

I guess going back to it takes a lot of time and effort to get to where we are, to where you have a product that we feel like really works. I mean, because it's uh, you know, I was a nutritionist, just I did nutrition for everybody, so I worked with all the different LA groups, you know, back in the day that period. So I was the one that had to go through and figure out what products to use. You know, and our our products are we've got at one time we were probably one of the pioneers on the yeast yeast area. Today there's a lot of competition out there. It might be 20 different companies out there providing the same thing. How do you make a dis determination on how that that works? I think the biggest thing is that you know, when we go to go to put together a product, it's not just okay, let's put it together and throw it out the door. These are days are gone of of that approach because I think you you there's too much risk. Nobody wants that kind of risk. You know, so one thing that we do a lot at all tech, and I I know other companies do, but I'll take my time to to tell some all tech a little bit. You know, we go through and do the do our due diligence on really what what the customers need. What are the what are the challenges the customers have? So instead of, you know, in the past, I think that a lot of companies went from the top down, you know, they they develop these things up in the in the on the whiteboards, and not to say they were bad products, but it's it doesn't fit what the needs are for the customer. So when we're out here trying to work on this, we're looking at what we call jobs to be done, but it's it's what are the main things that are really ailing the industry, whether it's costridia, if it's cox-seat, is it is Ava influenza is always on somebody's list? Uh shell quality, bullet livability is a challenge on the breeder side. You know, so what are those things that that are really ailing in the customer? So we look at that first and okay, can we do we have anything that could help the industry with that? If not, could we put something together? You know, we work a lot with other companies outside of just our own, although I think we produce probably 85, 9% of our own products, you know. So we've got an opportunity to really fine-tune exactly what we need to get out there for the customers. But then, you know, looking at what they need and then, okay, let's put some stuff together to be able to really conquer that, you know, take care of that E. coli issue. And that's then it's throwing it out to the the research. You know, we got to have some kind of research based on this. Before I launch products, I'm gonna go through my due diligence to make sure that that it works, you know, because if you go out there, you're gonna get mud on your face and the customer's gonna lose ultimately if you go out there too quick. So I I like to make sure that I shy on the side of caution probably, just because on my science background, I'm probably more methodical on things than somebody else that's just running quick. I like to take my time, time enough to make sure I feel good about the the move. And that we've got some real good sound evidence that okay, the ROI is gonna be in that three to one or better, that when you go out there with a product, it's gonna work. You know, there's always instances I would say if you got a product that works 70% of the time, you're you're doing pretty darn good because of those differences in management and and challenges that you run into. So that's that's the thing that I don't I don't think that you know, some of the guys out there know that you know, we do go through a lot of uh project management and and cost to make sure we're bringing them a sound product. I mean, that's at the end of the day, that's a big thing. And then when you're looking across all these different products, they might be somewhat like, but you know, go back and look at their research. Did they actually do the research they they said they did? Did they do their due diligence to really titrate out where this this particular molecule should be at to optimize both cost but efficiency in the bird, you know? So that's that's the process we go through here at Altec that that we're doing. And I think at the end of the day, that's that's the way you should do it in order to support these customers in the field, is is do it right the first time and uh you know, make sure the product's gonna work and it's gonna be it gives a return. I don't want to go out there. A lot of times you go out there with a two to one return, three to one return even sometimes. There's so much noise in a system, you may not pick it up. You know, so make sure it's make sure it's sound, make sure it's working right. You know, my my team out there, I got a pretty broad spectrum team now, anywhere from probably early 30s to 70. So a lot of a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge in a number of different areas, whether it be field feedbill management to vaccination to managing birds to veterinary services. And I got a team that, you know, they can pull in different pieces of the team to help a customer. So we might be, we might have one of my customer uh one of my customers managed by uh say Keith Sleetwood on the East Coast, but he also works with the veterinarian, he works with the other nutritionists on the team to make sure that he brings the needs of the customer in the front and we bring in the experts to help them. So that's the other thing I think that we do pretty well that not just bringing sound products to the market to meet the needs of the customer, but also the technical backing to support them on a number number of different levels.

Pullets As The Long Game

Brandon Mulnix 30:35

Yeah, you had mentioned earlier pullets and how the the focus on pullets can really affect the long-term success of the layers. Can you dive into that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yeah, pullets, you know, we usually have those pullets around for probably 16, 20 weeks before they start laying. And if you don't hit that right, if you don't have the right fat pet on them, the right conditioning, the right body structure in that bird, the right bone development before they start laying, you're gonna hurt yourself long term. So we don't really focus on pullets as much as we probably do layers because the layers are around for many, many, many weeks. And we'll that's our money. You know, the pullets are just being erased with really no income. It's just the cost. If you don't get those birds off to the right start, then they're gonna hurt you long term. If you have a really, really good bullet coming out, they're uniform, they're 90 plus uniformity, they got good fleshing, they got the right body structure, they're gonna do great. And they're gonna they're gonna continue to lay eggs way out there into those 90, 90 week of age structure, which we've got today. So, you know, having the right levels of nutrients in those feeds, making sure that we've got birds living all the way there too. Because if you got a disease challenge or a E. coli challenge, that doesn't hurt just one bird, it hurts several. You know, so if we miss on our on our uh body weights that we need to have at six, eight, twelve weeks along the way, you're gonna hurt yourself long term. And then when you get ready to come out right before we get to the latehouse, we've got to make sure we're building that medullary bone of that bird too. So optimizing the nutrition, I would say it also includes organic minerals. Um, as certain state, that there's been enough there, they're a little higher priced. But as far as a bird uniformity and a bird livability um and maintaining good bone structure at the end to get them ready, that works great. So I think if you have a poor flock, you're always gonna have a poor flock in the layhouse. That's just nothing you can do about it. So you really need to focus there on that 16 weeks of of growth on those pullets to make sure that you have a uh just gangbuster bird when you get them out into the layhouse. So you can't mess you can't miss that and mess that up. You gotta make sure you really focus on that to make sure it's right in order to have a good leg flock.

Brandon Mulnix 32:36

And it sounds like that if you cut cost in the pullets, then you're gonna spend more anyways on the layer because you're trying to trying to recover whatever you can at that point.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah, you're better off to spend a little bit more money on that. I mean it each one of these birds are gonna they're gonna eat about 12 pounds per bird, so it's not a huge amount of cost there. If you add a few things here and there to make sure that they're livable, they're they're growing the way they're supposed to. Um, I think birds today they grow a little bit better than they used to. We had some of the original flocks, you know, say 15, 20 years ago, we had some struggles with trying to hit uh body weights, you know, at 18 weeks. But today it's it's more achievable. And if you can get that, you got more syllable eggs in the beginning and get you have bigger eggs. Um you got better production that jumps up really quick, and you can get your eggs, your total eggs per hand house is gonna be much, much better if you get hit the right numbers on your bullets. So your overall economics are gonna be better. Even if you spend an extra you know 50 cents per bird, you're gonna be better off. So we really need to focus there. When I was at the university, we always we always had to raise the bullets all the way to to do any kind of layer nutrition work because we have strict rules on disease control and those such a thing. So I always use that as an opportunity to do a trial. I mean, why just raise them? Let's let's learn something. Let's learn on you know, bone metabolism, calcium metabolism. What what what makes that bird grow the way they do, and how can we optimize that? So I think it's we don't do a lot of research in that area. You know, it's not a glamorous, it's not it's not the money side, but I think we should do more. I think we should we should be working on, especially with birds going in a single cycle all the way out to 90 to 100 weeks, we should be doing more up there to make sure we optimize that. And then then we got no problem going all the way to 90 to 100 weeks.

Brandon Mulnix 34:12

So yeah, if you're growing pullets out there, um, you know, that's something to think about when your costs are going continue to rise, your return on investment's harder to calculate. You know, what what type of pullet are you producing? One that's because there's a lot of growers out there that's all they do is grow pullets. Yeah, and we're speaking directly to you as you know, this is your product, and you know, cutting investing in those birds is investing in the future of that layer flock, and that's your return business for your layer customers.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

So no, I agree. And you know, right now it's it's pretty easy just to pull back because the industry's kind of in a rough spot, but they're gonna need good pullets coming out to make sure that they hit their marks when this this egg market changes. And so to me, it's not time to pull back on that, you know, maybe pulling back on some of the layer side to to stop some bleeding, but not on the pullet side. That isn't where I'd probably pull

What To Protect And Final CTA

SPEAKER_00 35:01

back.

Brandon Mulnix 35:01

All right. I wanna we're gonna circle all the way back to the beginning where as we wrap this thing up, you're speaking directly to the farm. What's one thing under pressure right now to cut cost? What's the one thing they they should not cut? And then where should they look instead?

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Hmm. I mean, I think that don't cut back on on your on your management side. Make sure you're still maintaining that bird, that bird float, that that bird uh health within those those houses. Make sure you keep that going. Don't be pulling back on that. I think the birds you got, you want to get as many eggs as you can. I don't know. I think that depending on the health and what you're dealing with in certain houses, don't just pull back on a certain product just because you think it's costing them too much. It could be something that's maintaining livability, it's reducing your coli. Let the birds tell you on a health basis what you should should pick and pull out of that feed. I think on the nutrient side, you can make some adjustments. Make some adjustments. You're not going to see a training wreck on your egg production. But I would look at most maintaining your, you know, make sure you got the best optimized environment you have in that house. Make sure that's that's right and the birds you got left there. Secondly, make sure you pull out the right products. You know, if there's a product there that's working for a certain reason, leave it in there if that helps pay the bills and it and it makes sure that you've got eggs coming out of that house that's left. Um, those are probably the two things I'd probably hit is to tell them that. You know, we're in the summertime, so ventilation is a big deal. We don't have to worry about, you know, heating costs or anything like that right now. So that's probably not an issue until we get into winter months. Hopefully our egg market's better by then, but uh you never know. But right now, I would say optimizing that that environment of the house is something not to cut. And uh, you know, look at your feed additives, make some cuts where you where we think we need to because there's not an issue right now. But make sure you got the health right. And I would say probably the other thing on the additive basis is probably just enzymes. Enzymes should be left in the feeds because if you pull that pull the enzymes out, they're fairly cheap anyway. Even if you've got a carbohydrates, protease, and uh and a phytase in there, it's probably not costing you much over a dollar. So leave those in. But the value they bring on uploading, uplifting nutrients to where it's a cost savings for you is far outpaying the the enzymes. So keep the enzymes in there for sure. That needs to stay because that's a cost savings measure. Um, and then look at your health, health side of things and see what things really need to be there to maintain the health of the flock for the long haul, and then reduce your nutrients, make some adjustments on your nutrients. That's 70% of your cost is those nutrients, make some adjustments there so you can make that cost per dozen cheaper.

Brandon Mulnix 37:27

All right. Any final words to our producers out there today?

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Hang in there. You know, I think we're we're all like like we talked about earlier, we're all in there to help everybody. We want to make sure that everybody's everybody gets through this whole process. We have to make some pretty tough decisions right now. Um but there's things that you know I was talking to a producer yesterday actually about this whole process, and it's like, you know, we got to make some decisions. They said, you give me some major economics, I'll help you try to work through this process. Let's make these decisions together so that we can we can come out of this on the other side. So I think working as a team is probably even more, you know, just don't so everybody's in this together, and I think that we've got to work together as a team right now, more than ever, is to make sure we get through this whole downfall.

Brandon Mulnix 38:08

So, producers out there, I give you one piece of advice call your nutritionist before you make any decisions. Don't don't try to think that you have to do this alone because as Curtis talks about, you take away enzymes and now something else goes off. The allied folks that are out there, your nutritionists, your veterinarians, they understand what you're going through, and their job is not going to be to just protect their products. So we all are in this together. If you're having problems with control your environment, give Prism Controls a call. Even if it's not our product, we can at least talk you through how to improve your environment and the situation that you're in, because it it could be something very simple. And we need you to be there in six months, a year, 10 years from now. And if we can help you with your environment, if we can help you with your egg counting, if we can make you more efficient during this time, which means you can get more out of the people that you have working for you, please give us a call. We'd love to just be able to talk with you and understand what we can do to help you become more efficient in those ways. So if this is valuable to you, please share it with somebody. And this is a topic that I have not seen much being talked about right now, is where to cut cost, but I think it's pretty, pretty important. So please, listeners, share this with other producers, other farmers, and also give us your feedback. If this is another topic that, you know, there's another topic that you want to talk about, please share it with me. You can find my information in the links down below, just as well as Curtis's information. So I'm sure he's willing to take your calls and understand what he can do to help you as well. So thank you again, Curtis. And with that, have a great day.