130. Make The Choice That Doesn’t Make Sense

Come to France with us this September! <3 https://www.sueellenparkinson.com/pilgrimage

In this episode we share more details about our upcoming Mary Magdalene Pilgrimage (we’re so excited!). We talk about our most recent conversation with the one and only Sophie Strand and we reflect on how many of our most impactful decisions of our lives were the ones that didn’t really make any sense for us to make. 

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Please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and leave us some stars over on Spotify. You can email us at littlegiftspodcast@gmail.com or find us on isntagram @littlegiftspodcast. 

Find Sue Ellens artwork at www.sueellenparkinson.com or connect with her on instagram @sue.ellen.parkinson. And the same goes for Savanna! Find more about her practice at www.savannawonderwheel.com or connect on instagram @savannabeing. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

My whole life has been like that of just making these choices. You know, people go, well, that doesn't make any sense, but I just follow the calling. Welcome to the Little Gifts Podcast. This is Sue Ellen Parkinson.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

And I'm her granddaughter, Savannah Wonderwheel. And we're on a journey together to find deeper meaning and magic in the day-to-day.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

We're so happy to have you join us.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Hi, Grandma.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Hi, Savannah. You know, I was looking up Black Madonna's, the Black Madonna of Laredo before I got on with you. Wow. So I'm gonna shut that down. Okay. But we're going on a trip.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yes, we're going on a trip. Big announcement. We are doing our first pilgrimage together, and we're gonna be taking six amazing women with us. Yeah. So maybe if you're listening, you might be one of them.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

You might be one of the amazing women, and we're like so looking forward to it. Going deep in the footsteps of Mary Magdalene. And oh, I don't know. I just think there's something really wonderful about a shared experience like that in a small group. You never really um, you never really forget one another.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

You know, this is something you and I have been kind of talking about for a while and had kind of been holding it as a possibility for something that we were gonna do this year, and then through life things and health things and all the stuff, we kind of let it go a little bit, thinking that it wasn't gonna happen. And then here we are making it happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

So Right. Right. So sorry that there's not much lead time on this to register, but you know, spontaneity can be a really good thing, it really can. Sometimes we sometimes we overthink it and we we want perfection, so we just don't make things happen, but it's good just to go forth and see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah, we're calling in our other spontaneous wild women who are on the Magdalene path and have heard her call.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

So it's gonna be in September. It's gonna be September 14th through the 19th, and all of the information is available on your website, grandma's Sue Ellenparkinson.com. But you'll have all your accommodations covered, you'll have all your breakfasts covered, all your transportation once on the pilgrimage is covered, you just have to get yourself there. Um, and then there's gonna be just it's gonna be really amazing. We're gonna be doing ritual work and we're gonna be doing some creative practices, some artwork, and we'll be doing some movement and people can get some body work from me. And it's just gonna be spacious and a space as I've been talking to different women on these kind of discovery calls that we're doing. Something that's kind of been coming, getting clearer and clearer is that so many retreats or pilgrimages are really full in a way that's like that can be really beautiful and really fulfilling and all the stuff, but they're so full that sometimes you get home and then you feel like you need a second vacation to integrate and process the you know, journey, the pilgrimage you just went on. And we're really hoping that this is gonna be slightly different than that, and that this is gonna be a space that there's enough room to breathe that you can show up and kind of feel like you are able to integrate everything as we're moving through it. And even it could be a space that you could show up with all these past experiences that you've been feeling like you need the space to integrate and you can bring it into this container with us, and it can be a place to kind of like process through all this really big work that I know so many women and so many of our listeners and so many people are doing like all the time and don't have the room to really like sit with it. So we're hoping that that can be kind of part of this as well for people.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah, I mean, for me, working connecting with Magdalene and working with her like a as an energy field. I mean, I don't want to get too woo-woo here, but it just has really expanded my life in so many ways. And when you're in the actual places that she inhabited, there's just something palpable going on that I mean, you can feel it. And and I think that part of it is that you're in this field of prayer, literally. I mean, hundreds of thousands of people have prayed to her and and gone on these pilgrimages, you know, to visit her sacred sites so that when you're there, something has really moved within you, and it it's just awesome. It's awesome to share that with somebody else, and I'm really looking forward to sharing it with you, Savannah. I know, me too. Yeah, it seems like we're tapping into some ancient uh family experience, you know. I mean, I I feel like we've had great, great, great grandmothers that have gone there too.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Definitely. And I think that's like one of the things that is so interesting about it. For me, you know, I'm I'm not a particularly religious person, and neither are you, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

It's that kind of spectrum of spiritual to religious, and we're definitely Well, I'd say my spiritual life is a big part of my life, but I have trouble, I have trouble with religion, but I think a part a lot of what I have trouble with is not actually the real religious stuff, but the the patriarchal overlay that is so off-putting. But you know, when I look at pure Christianity, I I'm in total sync with it, really.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Well, so my my point to that is that, you know, it's not like we spent a ton of time going into churches and going into places that were, you know, religious sites. And so for me at least, going to this land in the south of France, you know, there's this quality to it, like you said, where people have been coming and praying and doing devotional practices for so, so, so, so long. And it's you can feel it in the in the actual land. Like you're not having to go to a built establishment or like a place with, you know, walls and a roof to to be in that space. It's like it's quite literally on and in the land that you're that you're on. And that was just such a a really moving experience for me to get to feel that because you know, I think my relationship with spirit has for most of my life been directly through relating with the land and with the earth. And so to feel a place where there's been all this, you know, devote these devotional practices happening on the land directly with the earth really, really moved me in a way that I don't think I'd been moved before.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Right. I mean, we're we're gonna be going to La Bomb, the cave where Magdalene lived at the end of her life. And the forest below there is so amazing. Anyways, that's we're gonna be experiencing it and talking about it, but just encourage you if you if you want to be part of a small pilgrimage of people and join us, I think it's gonna be a really good time and a very deep experience. Savannah and I are both deeply into ritual and we're gonna do some beautiful things that I don't think you'll you'll ever forget. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

And I'll just say the last thing I'll kind of say about it for now is that it can feel like a really kind of insane decision to make for oneself to uproot and leave for a week for no other reason than just because you're feeling like a heart call somewhere, or that like soul call somewhere, which should be like the perfect reason to go and leave for any reason, but you know, it's within our culture, it's just not really within the realm of reason for people. And it can feel like it's not a reality that's available to you. Like it can feel like, oh, well, that's cool that those people do get to do that, but that's not my reality. And I think I have, I don't think I know, I have deeply felt that when I've seen other people doing things. And for me, I had this big aha that like the way it becomes your reality is literally just by doing it. And it may not make sense, it may feel out of reach. There may even sometimes be that sense of like, oh, I don't know if I have the money for this or where that's gonna come from. And in my experience now, having said yes to things like this multiple times when I've been in a situation where I was like, this maybe doesn't make sense, this seems really far out of reach, really far out of my reality, but I just am kind of compelled to do it anyways. Once I say yes, there's like this shift that happens and things start working out to make it work out for you. And so I'm just gonna kind of drop that little tidbit there for folks that it is, it could be possible that it is within your reality, even if your like logical thinking mind says no, because the universe works in mysterious ways. And and sometimes there's little little things that are given to us as ways to help us go forth with these things when we, you know, decide that we need to.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

So yeah. And I think that, you know, we've tried to keep the cost down on this, kind of worked it out. So anyway, I I think it's doable for yeah, most people.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

I'll just say, Grandma, you mentioned, you know, we're really trying to keep this somewhat accessible for people and cover our our needs and and keeping it intimate. But so we have it priced at $2,500 for the early bird rate, and that ends July 5th. And you can secure that rate by paying the deposit. It's a $300 deposit. So if you're like, I want to do it, I'm a yes. I still kind of need to get stuff together though. Talk to me, let's get the deposit in, and then you can secure that rate. And then after the 5th of July, it goes up to $2,900, $900. So that's that's where we're at. And we would so love to have you there with us. It would just be such a treat. And I'll put the link to um Grandma Sue's website that has the information in the show notes so you can check that out.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Yeah, come join us in France. You know, as you're talking about this, my whole life has been like that of just making these choices to uh, you know, people go, well, that doesn't make any sense. And I but I just follow, follow the calling. It's a very different way of living. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Which so that kind of brings us around to our conversation that we had with Sophie Strand this last episode, I think, where I would love to kind of reflect a little bit on that and hear how it sat with you over, you know, the last week. And I think that's one thing that was really interesting to me is like she, you know, she comes from a family that is her folks at least, that had people that kind of also did that, like you were saying, followed the thing that didn't make sense and just kind of trusted that they were on whatever path they were supposed to be, and they kind of did the outside the usual thing, and kind of seeing how that then impacted the way Sophie has lived her life and has, you know, shared her gifts and art and writing with the world. And I think there is kind of that commonality within all of us of kind of like you said, choosing the thing that doesn't make sense for a lot of parts of our lives and and seemingly it getting us. I mean, I we're gonna get somewhere no matter what, whether we chose that or not. So who knows? But you know, getting us to where we're at now, which seems to be in places that feel pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

It's interesting, you know. This I didn't know we were gonna go off on this tangent of this line of thought, but I I find myself going down the rabbit hole of it. It's a good rabbit hole. But um, I remember when I was pregnant, when I found out I was pregnant with Thomas, who is my youngest son. So this was 44 years ago, and it made no sense for me to have this child. I wasn't I'd broken up with uh his dad, and I really didn't have any money, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But something in me just wanted to have that child. And I remember talking to my dear friend Donna Sanders, and she is, I would say, a true Christian. I mean, she's so loving and tender, and it's just endless, endless mercy and love and kind of lifting people up, is sort of her approach to life. And she just said to me, she said, Well, you know, life is always gonna come to your aid. Oh, that's what she said to me. And I just thought, oh, you know, she just said, You you are loved, and life is always gonna come to your aid. And I just thought, okay, I'll do it. And then I had Thomas was actually born on my birthday, on my 30th birthday. So it was sort of like it just seemed like a sign that I'd made the right choice, you know. But it but my life has just been endless decisions like that of yeah, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do what my heart and my soul is calling me to.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Yeah, and it's not to say that that, you know, leads to rainbows and butterflies every time. Like there's oh no, there's also a lot of stress and strife that comes with it, but there is, I think, this like deeper layer of fulfillment that I don't think everybody necessarily taps into all the time because because it can come along with these other things of stress and you know, how am I gonna get by? How's this gonna happen? How's that gonna happen? Um, but but there's also some some type of contentment there.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Uh-huh. Well, it's it's you know, you're you're answering your soul, you're you're listening to your soul. And you know, back to pilgrimage, that's what to me so much of this is about. And I think that that's partly why, you know, in our discussions about how we would want to lead a pilgrimage, we want to factor in time for people to reflect and and not feel stressed or pushed from one thing to another, that they can just absorb things.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, and I mean, yeah, again, that topic of pilgrimage, it's like when I think about when I've said yes and then have been asked, you know, asked by people in my life, like, so what are you what are you doing? Why are you doing this? You know? It's like I can't really give an answer other than I just feel like I need to. Like there's it's hard for me to put words to why. It's just this this feeling of like, yes, I just I'm I'm I just have to say yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

I I think that it's that um a lot of it comes from our ancestral, you know. I always say I believe in this idea that we carry cellular memory, and I think our our ancestors are talking to us through ourselves, you know. I remember when I first was drawn to Mary Magdalene, I literally woke up one morning and thinking, I've got to study Mary Magdalene. Now, where did that come from? I I don't think it was a coincidence, I think some some kind of message was being sent because she so profoundly changed my life. Anywho, so we were talking about Sophie Grand, and that was just felt like such a blessing for me to get to meet her, even though it was virtual, and we were, you know, looking at a computer screen, a zoom screen screen when we talked to her, because I'd been contacted by her years ago because she wanted to use one of my images for her book. And I didn't know who she was, you know, but then when she asked me, I started looking her up, and she's such an amazing out-of-the-box thinker. I just loved the way her mind works, and you know, I think what a blessing it it is for her to have such amazing parents. It's Perdita Finn and Clark Strand.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Well, it was so interesting, you know. I remember how many years ago now is probably like six years ago now. I remember when we were went like sitting at your house and you showing us her email, being like, This person, this random person has emailed me and asked me if she can use my art for her book. And I and like having that conversation and looking her up and kind of talking about it. So to have that, to get to be there when you two met just was like a really interesting full circle moment for me as well, of even just like from the fly on the wall perspective of being like, oh, I got to like kind of see the behind the curtains moment of when you two first started being in contact, and then to get to see you two meeting for the first time was really sweet for me on my end, too, just to get to kind of have that full circle moment and and to see the like mutual admiration that was so obviously there with each other that you two had for each other, and yeah, it was just really special.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Yeah, I got little tears in my eyes when we were about to talk to her. It was interesting. I think I think there must be some kind of karmic past life, something where I feel that actually with her whole family. It's interesting when you meet those people. But another thing I was thinking about was here you've got this amazing young woman, and I think it really helps, and we've got to acknowledge this how much it helps to have parents who are creatives and spiritually based and who follow their hearts. I mean, that just gives you such a great jump start, you know. And not not everybody has that, and just to send that prayer out to the world that other people all over can have that sort of loving support, whether it be your own biological parents or that there's a neighbor or an auntie or uncle or somebody who steps into your life and um you know encourages you in that way. It just makes a huge, huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

It really does. And I think that's maybe a little bit what I was trying to get at earlier with this, like the idea of you know, following maybe the not expected path or like doing things a little in a slightly different than usual way, um, because you're following that kind of hearts calling. Um and how, you know, having two parents that did that and then getting to see, getting to see that it worked out for them, you know. And so it's like sometimes it can be so hard to follow that calling when you don't have uh you don't have an example of what it could look like when it goes well, you know? And so for her to get to see, oh, this could be like this actually can work out when you follow that, and then to have the support of the people who are like, yeah, do the thing that seemed that's that you're just getting called to.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Um follow your heart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah. You know, I think that's kind of what I was trying to get at a little more so of how important it is to have examples of that. And I think, you know, one thing that's come to me with doing this show is and getting to talk to all these amazing people, these different people that are doing that in one way or another, is that I would hope at least that we're really giving those examples to people. We're like putting out there the examples of people who've done it for other folks who may be listening to, you know, have it reflected that, like, yeah, there are other ways of moving through your life if you if you want to.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Yeah, oh yeah. So we're doing it. That makes me happy that we're we might be providing that to somebody else. We love you out there, whoever you are. Do your do your crazy thing, whoever you are, do it, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Well, and that's been a really sweet thing too, is as I've had a couple of these, a few of these discovery calls for this pilgrimage, getting to talk to a couple people who, you know, have told me that they listen to the show really regularly and that it's like one of the things they listen to every week, and that how much they appreciate, how much they appreciate what we're doing and kind of putting out there as just what I said, just like a mirror of a different way of being able to move through life and um, you know, I think in the terms of you know, our individual lives, but then also just in terms of yours and I's relationship together and how how unique that really is too.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

I'm not hearing you all of a sudden. Oh, hello. I'm not hearing you. Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? Now I can hear you. Weird. Did you press something? No. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Um, what was the last thing you heard?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Says your internet connection is restored. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Oh, so your internet must have gone out for a second.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

I don't I don't even know. I just was uh I lost you. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Do you remember where I was at? No. Um, well, I think let's see if I can follow the thread. Um yeah, I think one of the things that has come up a few times is like the example we're giving, just in the way. That you and I relate to each other, where it's, you know, not necessarily you and I as individuals, but you know, the uniqueness of our relationship that we're really lucky to have, and that, you know, not a ton of people do get the opportunity to have with their grandmother. And um, and how, you know, there's there can be some sadness around it because it's like, oh my God, I wish I could have had that. And at the same time, um, I've heard from two different people say this very similarly along the same lines of how they get some, they're getting some fulfillment through like hearing the way that we relate to each other, that it's actually like reparative for them in some way that there is, you know, a lifetime or a parallel universe or something where they could have had this kind of relationship with their grandmother. Um, and that even just by hearing us, you know, be in a relationship together, that it's it feels like it's helping repair some of that like grandmother wounding that they maybe have.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Um grandmother loss, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I think there's a lot of that that exists. Yeah. You know, so much of my life in the past 20 years has been this sort of constant reclamation and repair. And I just I was just part of this program that um Kayleen Asbo put together, where we it was part of her Rose Sangha, and she asked a group of us to read poems uh about Father's Day. And then we talked about it. But you know, I I realized I read this poem by Tony Hoagland called The Phone Call. And um I've had difficulty with my own dad. I mean, I totally loved him, but um, and in many ways we had a good relationship, but there was also a lot of painful childhood stuff with him, and uh I just suddenly, and I don't know why I had not done this before, but I saw him as a 39-year-old who received the news that uh his wife was gonna die in a year, and he had these two little kids, and I don't know, it just helped really shift things for me. And and and it was definitely reparative. There was definitely forgiveness that happened in my heart. That's so young to get some kind of tragedy like that laid on you. So, anyway, um, yeah, repair and Mary Magdalene, and this is an odd little pivot here, but I have to say that I feel so fortunate that Mary Magdalene came into my purview and has been this iconic representation of of all the women of all the hurt that women have received and all the erasure that women have received. And then to start by honoring her, repairing that in myself, that hurt in myself. It's just um it's it's amazing. Life is amazing, wild, up and down, all around ride. The Ferris wheel, the um, what do you call the yeah, the roller coaster? The roller coaster, the Ferris wheel, the roller coaster, the tilt a whirl of what of life.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a roller coaster, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

It's definitely a tilt-a-worl.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Um well, is it time for our little gifts? Are we there?

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Oh my goodness. Um, yeah, sure. Yeah. I had, I'm up in Tidewater right now, and I had um last night was yesterday was Gary's birthday, and so we were sitting out on the dock with your mom and just uh watching the world, the wonder world. And all of a sudden we saw the elk downstream were crossing the river. Oh my god. That's so amazing. And it was the miracle of this herd of very large animals, and but and yet it seems incredible to me that they can swim across this river, right? Because they're so big, they're so big and they just have these long, they have hooves, you know. Uh-huh. Yeah. I don't know. It's it was amazing watching them do it, but there they were. So I got to I'd I'd always wanted to see that. So it was it was fun.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Yeah, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, the wonder world. How about you? Um, let's see.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

I feel like I've been um in a little bit of that space of like doing doing a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Oh my god, you've been busy. You always are busy, but you're always busy, but this is planning this pilgrimage has been an extra yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

I keep I am often busy and then I go home and I don't do anything when I'm at home in my, you know, in my bed at during the night. Um, but having to trying to get this pilgrimage put together on in a little bit of a um, you know, trying to finalize things um so that we could give people as much notice as possible. I've been doing a lot more like administrative stuff than I'm used to. Um and I just had, you know, a little bit of this like aha moment that, you know, I'm also really good at this.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Um I have I am so grateful. I think you are really good on it, and I think you actually thrive doing this stuff. So I'm happy as can be.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

And yeah, you know, I I just we can get these like narratives in our head of I'm only good at this or I'm only good at that, or I do this or I do that. And I had a really intense burnout from a very administrative role. You know, I was still doing teaching movement and doing bodywork, but I was managing this Pilates studio, and I just and I was really responsible for a lot of the administrative side of things, and I had this like huge burnout from that. And it's been probably four or five years since that, probably five years since that. And in those five years, you know, it's the pendulum swing of like I was doing all this admin stuff, the pendulum swung way out to the point that I was like, I can never look at another email again. I mean, I even had in my in my email, I had an automatic replier that went out to every single email that I got that said, like, hello, just so you know, it takes me about two to three weeks to reply to an email. So just like if you see, like, if you send me an email, you know, just no, I'll get back to you eventually. It's gonna take me a long time. But if you need a more direct thing, you know, you can text me. Um, because I just was so stressed about the fact that I wasn't like responding to people in a quick way. And so that was my little way of making me feel less stressed about that. Um, but I'm having this feeling that the pendulum is finally coming back to the middle. You know, I swung one way, I'm swing swung the other, and I feel like I'm finally starting to come back to some balance and kind of just reclaiming this part of myself that I'm like, no, if I actually focus in on like a goal, I can really get things done in a way that I am pretty proud of. Um, yeah, you you and your mom both really have that ability. And so I think I'm just holding a lot of, and then I ended up having this is a rambly one. Sorry, there's not really any one specific thing I'm getting at, but I just had this conversation last night too with uh Bella, who's been a special guest on here before, my housemate and long, long time bestie. Um, and our other housemate, Claire, and we were just talking and kind of reflecting on these different relationships that I've had that have gone, you know, have ended in on in very hard ways, and um, specifically not like dating relationships, but specifically like female friendship relationships. Um, and that job that I'd been doing, the administrative work for me and the woman who I was working for had a really, really intense falling out. And I think that was part of, you know, part of what was happening with my burnout around that was that I was also just like holding this unreasonable amount of space for this person in a way that in retrospect was really unhealthy. Um, but I just like had this kind of reflection of a younger version of myself and my younger, you know, younger Savannah that was doing all that and just really holding her with like so much tenderness of like I was doing so much work and like emotional and literal labor and um and just how much I I was holding it all together. Um, and you know, and eventually got to the point where I couldn't hold it all together. And um, but like really just looking back on myself and feeling really proud of the way I handled all of it and the way that I handled leaving that situation and the way that I was able to pull myself out of a reality that felt like it really was my only like I didn't see a path out of it, and I didn't see a way to change my reality, and you know, I still did it, and so I'm just really like holding that part of myself with a lot of admiration and grace and gratefulness. So I guess tenderness, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

So that's my long, rambly little gift that doesn't really have any one specific thing, but your little your little gift of yourself to yourself, my little gift of 26-year-old Savannah who was uh was in a rough spot, but really doing her best. Yeah, yeah, it's good. Maybe you could make a soul collage card of her.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Oh, that's a sweet idea. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

I have different parts of myself that I have cards for, and it's just really good to have some tenderness for all our parts. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, all our parts. Well, hey, little gifters, we love you. Oh, and we've got a community care. Is that tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 32:48

That is tomorrow, so this won't come out until after that's done.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

But okay, well, we'll maybe we'll see you on Sunday. Yeah. Oh, wait, this is gonna be out after that, so never mind any of this. I'll just take it out, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Well, I love you, Grandma. I love you too. And we love you, little gifters. Yeah, come join us in France. Okay, we'll be back next week. We will. Bye. Bye. If you're a lover of the Little Gifts podcast, please share that love with the world. Leave us a review or give us some stars wherever you listen to your podcasts, and while you're at it, you could send this episode to someone in your life that you know could use some TLC. Word of mouth recommendations are the best marketing a podcast could ask for, and every recommendation means the world to us. To keep in touch, you can find us on Substack or Instagram at LittleGifts Podcast, and we host a monthly community care circle on the last Sunday of every month that can be found through our Substack. You can also send us an email at littlegiftspodcast at gmail.com, and as always, all of this info and more can be found in the show notes. And we want to give a special thanks to Robin O'Brien for gifting us her music to use for this show. Thanks for being on this journey with us.