The Art of Finance

On this one I was very pleased to be joined by Emilia De Stasio, CFA, the Founder & COO at Artscapy, the wealth management platform dedicated to art collecting.

I really enjoyed this conversation with Emilia where we explored her background in Finance, her love of Art and her journey over the past 4 years as she has co-founded Artscapy, a platform dedicated to the needs of art collectors.

🌟 A flavour of some of my favourite parts of our conversation:
✅ Emilia’s personal passion for art and its importance to her both in terms of its mental wellbeing effects and her desire and mission supporting this aspect of society;
✅ How, contemporary art provides both some of the best performing returns in the passion asset space along with real downside protection;
✅ How Emilia’s banking background has informed her approach to valuing art and the approach that they are taking at Artscapy;
✅ The marrying of the technology with the Advisory service that a higher value wealth management service demands;
✅ The benefits Emilia has found in having a strong network of mentors and peers to share ideas around the challenges in scaling the business.

Business Book Bonus Recommendation - Let My People Go Surfing by Yvonne Chouinard: https://amzn.eu/d/ivgkRRA

Transcript

Adam (00:03.132)

Okay, so today I'm here with Emilia De Stasio, the COO and founder of Artscapy, the wealth management platform dedicated to art collecting. Emilia, welcome to the Fractional CFO show. How are you doing?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (00:17.602)

Thanks for having me, Adam. I'm really excited to be on the show. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Adam (00:24.83)

Yeah, excellent. We're all very happy to have you here and really looking forward to this one. And we're going to dive into the art of finance. And I guess to start with, would you mind giving us a bit of an overview of your career so far? How did you, I saw you went from central banking to starting a platform dedicated to art collectors. So it's an interesting journey. So could you tell us a bit about that?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (00:48.876)

Yeah, it's been quite a ride. I was reflecting on this also the other day. It's interesting to see how the journey has been. I basically, studied economics and finance. I was dead set on going into kind of macroeconomics. I've always been interested in looking at how markets move. So that's been kind of the underlying current. I did do a couple of years at the European Central Bank.

which I very much enjoyed looking at the banking sector before moving into private and I had the fortune or misfortune even to be the lead researcher on Brexit while I was at Moody's Investor Service before I switched into the investment side. So rather than just, let me say, studying markets in one form or another, whether that's macroeconomics or finance, actually thinking then about how that

translates into investments, into actual, let me say, on the ground growth and applied finance, if you will. Firstly, as sort of investor myself, I was a managing director, investment manager, I should say, at a family office that was interested in building a startup portfolio, as well as doubling a little bit into art. And so where does art come into this picture?

is has always been a personal passion of mine. So I've been always going to museums, galleries and taking curiosity from the arts and once I was able to do so also starting to collect and actively support cultural production as a collector or investor if you will and so it's that interest in

in finance and eventually in technology and cannot be applied finance as such and the personal passion of art that basically brought us to co -founding Artscapey.

Adam (03:01.596)

Excellent, excellent. Well, that's quite the journey and I hadn't realised the Brexit connection. We'll perhaps leave that for another podcast. I could talk about that for a long time.

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (03:09.943)

Yeah, that was a whole chapter on its own.

Adam (03:12.958)

I'm sure, I'm sure. And I know you moved out pretty soon after that, so I wonder if that had a terminal effect on that part of your career, I don't know. We'll leave that one there for the audience to judge. So I guess I'm really interested in the art business that you're in at the moment, and obviously coming from a finance background myself, albeit slightly different to yours, how has art evolved? mean, you're offering art as an investment, you

class and that's not a typical way that it's perhaps been viewed until fairly recently in this way so it'd be interesting to hear how it has evolved as an investment class and how it's yeah more amenable to the general public to invest in.

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (03:57.922)

Yes, I think there are a couple of trends that are really, really interesting here. So I came at it from very much an intellectual curiosity, right? So obviously I have the personal passion, but then when you start to look under the hood and look at...

art and start to apply financial theory, portfolio management theory, and thinking about how art can fit in a wealth portfolio. There's actually a lot of boxes that get ticked that I find really interesting. So one is of course the return potential.

which has been shown over time. It's hard to find very good data. You have to be careful with the selection bias there, right? But by and large, especially if you're looking at contemporary art, it performs as well or better than a lot of traditional assets and is the best performing in terms of returns in the passion asset space. So your cars, watches, fine wines, that kind of space. Then you have the diversification.

aspect which you know art isn't I'm not saying art is immune to the macro economy or to market fluctuations but the correlation to other asset markets is low which makes it an interesting add -on into anyone's financial or wealth portfolio and finally

The other thing I would say is also the downside protection, which was interesting for me to see looking at the data that actually when things go bad, if you will, on average, aggregate for the art market, things go less bad. So there are less losses in art than for many other asset classes. So if you start to think about it in these...

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (05:50.018)

these worlds start to be a really interesting asset class to explore. And then of course on top of it all is the reason that appeals to me the most is that it's

it has a dual yield. So I'm always saying art is the only asset that basically yields twice. So one is the financial potential, but then secondly is the intellectual potential. So art is something you live with. has mental wellbeing effects. You're supporting cultural production, in particular if you're buying contemporary living artists. You're also there supporting this.

this aspect of society, if you will, and almost as a social investment. So all those things combined, I think, are resonating very well in the market. And we're seeing a lot of interest in art for these reasons.

Adam (06:43.224)

Interesting. And do you find that the you mentioned the dual yield there, do you find that high net worth individuals or people who invest in in assets choose to invest in art primarily for financial, primarily for the non -financial and the emotional or is it a combination of the two?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (07:02.806)

So I have a somewhat controversial opinion on this, which is controversial, basically, if you speak into purest in the art market. Of course, you're always looking at art first and foremost because it's something you love. And the first reason to ever buy an artwork is because you really like the piece, like the work you believe in the artist. So that must come first.

met a collector, a true collector or anyone who has borrowed, who has been blind to the financial transaction that is happening, right? So no one wants to lose money. know, wallets and pockets are differently deep, you know, for some people 5k isn't much, 50k is a lot, flip it around etc.

but no one is blind to the fact that it is a substantial financial transaction in many cases, or especially if you're building a portfolio, right? So that does come into play, and it happens to be that the better quality art, once you start to understand those metrics, which is what we're trying to also help to educate and give tools on through ArtScape,

that there are these basically objective guidelines to help you understand better the value of art and good quality art is the kind of art that tends to hold and eventually increase in value.

Adam (08:37.842)

Interesting, yeah. And I guess one of the things you said there about the there's always an eye on the financial, but the liquidity of the market, which is, guess, what you're trying to solve for within within your platform. Are there challenges that people face and how are you addressing those challenges to compare it to more liquid investments within your portfolio?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (09:00.87)

Yeah, absolutely absolutely so whenever you step outside of traditional assets you're gonna encounter the big illiquidity question and so being quite aware of that we tackle that through a number of ways so One our entire let me say brokerage angle and the support on trading I should say

spans the entire spectrum so we have advisors that help to leverage a global network to buy and sell works privately. That's one big angle. We do have our let me say online promotional tools, a way to to expose works to a wider audience, market them online digitally if you will.

as well as consignment into auctions for those people that want to play on the idea of perhaps unleashing a bidding war, you know, we do that as well. And the real benefit is if you're an investor, it's hard to keep abreast of all these different options and you kind of need someone to help.

guide in that journey and that's where we come in. So whenever we have a collector or investor who's looking to deaccession or sell a work

you know, we sit down and look at the best strategy for that artwork or that collection and can propose a route for that. So that's how really why I also say that Artscape in so many ways is really a wealth management platform or alternative investments that specialize into art. We're not a gallery. We don't hold inventory. We're not bound to sell XYZ works. We're here to support the collectors and the investors.

Adam (10:40.454)

you

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (10:54.656)

And finally, what's been really exciting, which we launched very recently, is a whole suite of financing services.

this idea of using art as collateral to gain access to funds that can be almost as an advance on sale. Maybe you have an artwork but it's going to take you six to nine months. It's a higher value work. We need to do a lot of due diligence. It needs to be found the right buyer etc etc but you want

cash sooner than that because you're going after another timely investment opportunity. What have you? What's your reason? Now we have a way to unlock liquidity from that. So kind of bridge loans, of Lombard loans, some people refer to it. We're starting to offer that. I think

Adam (11:43.114)

Mm

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (11:47.564)

That gives you quite a big menu to actually tackle the liquidity of art. And that's really interesting to see how these things from finance that are available to other traditional assets. So we've been able to lend against stock portfolios since a while. And there are quite a few fintech players that do this, but it's only really

emerging in recent years as a booming market within art, simply because it requires this kind of specialized knowledge and that's what we can step in to do.

Adam (12:23.293)

Interesting. And I guess this is, you touched on there about the advisory side and sort of planning a strategy and the best route to market for your customers. And I wonder how...

how scalable is that as a business model? In terms of like, you're obviously working with individuals and you're giving a bespoke service. is the model that Artscape follow kind of a low volume, high yield model, I guess, or are you able to scale it up and support a large number of collectors with this kind of bespoke service?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (13:01.838)

Yes, so everything that we do is underpinned by technology. So I would say we are a tech enabled wealth management platform. And why I say it like this, right now we have almost 7 ,000 collectors on the site. A lot of them are self -serving. So when you open Artscape, it very much reminds you of a sort of revolute or any kind of meal bank account. You have your funds there, you access services

through an app, it's one click solution. So we have one click insurance, one click to sell, to buy, to get in touch, accessing valuation, et cetera. And we produce the portfolio reports. They're all sitting in there in your art account. So that does streamline a lot of it. And a lot of our clients are.

or self -serving throughout the entire journey. They dip in and out of different services, which I think is the richness of having developed such an ecosystem that we aim to do. But then we do realize that not everything is...

is straightforward and especially when you're talking about higher value items you do want to craft a bit more bespoke and that's where we leverage the advisory team but also there we've established things like data -driven kind of matchmaking.

technology so we basically can match what people are interested in buying or interested in in collecting when we have that kind of request to to sell so we would and we wouldn't be able to do that if we didn't have the the technology or the database so

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (14:54.856)

While the strategy itself might become something led by a human, it wouldn't be possible to do that at the kind of scale we're doing it if we didn't have the technology underpinning that.

Adam (15:10.24)

Interesting. Okay, great. That's very clear. And I'm interested in your personal journey going back to your finance background and have you used that in terms of your own techniques to value art? Do you find there's a lot of crossover with your old world and the new one that you're in?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (15:18.53)

Sure.

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (15:30.132)

Yeah, I'd say so. I've always had quite a quantitative mind and the idea of bringing in data -driven approaches. Of course, having spent these years at Moody's got me quite nerdily into their ratings. And actually we developed something similar for the art market because again, my...

My key emphasis is how can I make art, which is typically seen as something quite esoteric, quite subjective, into something that more people can understand and can become accessible. And while, you know, if I bring you language that is saying, he's the avant -garde artist of this movement, he's a neo -cubist...

pop art, whatever, that starts to get intimidating quite quickly. But if I can start to describe also art as, this artist is riskier because he's maybe younger in the career, is promising, has momentum because he's showing in this and this institution, go and see him, there's a show at the Tate Modern, what have you, that starts to be language that...

not just finance professionals, almost everyone can understand, right? What's the premise of risk? We understand higher risk, possibly higher return, lower risk, okay, I'm taking a safer bet, momentum, okay, there is trajectory here, liquidity scores and so forth. So I've tried to bring in this sort of thinking and definitely borrowing a lot from my past to do so, as well as I'd

say our focus on the investor or the collector himself. rather than, you know, we're not tied to selling a particular inventory work. We're not a marketplace. We're not a gallery. So we're not here to sell you something because it's a lucrative outcome for us. We take a wealth management approach. It borders on, in my mind, of fiduciary duty in the sense of

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (17:46.22)

We're here with a focus on your portfolio, a long -term perspective. We're not here to help you buy and sell the one odd work. We're here to add art portfolio to your wealth or finance kind of portfolio and craft that role with you and have all the services that you need to do so in one place.

Adam (18:10.631)

Excellent. There's a lot of similarities, I guess, in terms of using numbers to paint a picture and to use the language that is accessible for

your audience regardless of whether you're at mood is or whether you're you're an art scapey. Yeah, that makes sense. And I wonder like just changing tack slightly and a lot of the audience who will be listening to this are, you know, people who are thinking of transitioning to a new role. It's similar to the way that you have done. What what sort of specific skills on the financial side perhaps that you have found most valuable in your kind of new startup?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (18:19.98)

Yeah, definitely.

Adam (18:46.238)

world, you know, like you there's obviously the very complicated models that you've worked with before but what have been the most valuable skills that you've used in startups from your old world?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (18:57.71)

Yes, I think the transition itself is not very easy, especially probably if you're coming from, let say, a classic finance role, typically very well paid, decent job security, although we can argue both those points.

But by and large, that tends to be the case. While startup world is quite insecure, nine out of 10 will fail. It isn't easy. I definitely think also entrepreneurship has been over glorified. A lot of people think of entrepreneurs, not just founders, but even just employees of startups as the ones sitting with the laptop on the beach in Bali and half working and partying in the night.

Adam (19:33.534)

Mm

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (19:45.534)

it's not really like that so you remove every kind of framework I'd say to your professional life so you you work essentially all the time so there's not you you don't it's not that you close the laptop six seven eight nine at night and that's it you're always thinking you're always working so that's

That's one thing. In terms of kind of the skills as such, I would probably go back to this idea of anyway, what's the key reason any startup fails is because they run out of money. So which means that you as someone coming from finance is aptly positioned to support a startup, right? Because you have a keen eye to saying, okay, what's my return of this?

this investment, these actions, when you start to put things in this kind of framework you can be adding incredible value. Now the difficult bit

Adam (20:41.802)

Mmm.

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (20:46.678)

I'd say is that a lot of finance theory in general goes completely out the window. So you have no, you're no stable cash flows. mean, forget time value of money, forget, forget trying to do classic ROI calculations, value calculations, valuing any financial asset or investment. Most of those things are incredibly hard.

but where I would say what's been the most helpful to me is anyway the systematic approach of saying okay I don't have any of these classic metrics ratios and what have you but I can apply a structured thinking and once you have a structured thinking clear KPIs where you know what is the what is the outcome I'm looking for and focusing not so much on the process but what is the result I'm looking for why are we doing this thing and you can apply it

Adam (21:16.789)

Hmm.

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (21:40.102)

anything? Why are we trying to develop this new product feature? Is it to increase our revenues? Is it to get more users? Is it to do what have you? Is to be cool in a PR coverage? You should focus on why you're doing that and having a systematic thinking because that's your only way to understand the did this activity have

have an ROI? Did it make sense to do this? And then being conscious of how that fits in with the cash flows of the company. Which I'd say also, if I may ties into also your relationship with the rest of the founding team or with the C -level, you know, the CEO tends to be the visionary.

So he or she is the one that has the grand vision in mind, the strategy, the north star, we're going to be the next Google of blah and blah in mind. And you as the finance professional, I'm not saying not just as a CEO or a CFO.

But if you're brought on in any kind of quantitative or financial capacity, your role in there can be to add value to say, okay, I see what we're doing. Let's understand what is the goal to achieve the right kind of ROI. This is the kind of funds we should be allocating. We need to be cautious of the runway. Is there a different or more effective way to reach the same outcome that we have in mind?

So lot of these kind of things is while not, you're not applying finance theory, I would say you're applying finance thinking.

Adam (23:28.736)

Yeah, very clearly explained and 100 % agree. I wonder how has it taken you a long time to get comfortable with the greater risk? know, like in a startup world, as you say, you don't have the same models that you can use, you have to become a lot more nimble and a lot more agile in your thinking. Has that been a difficult transition for you or something that you took to like a duck to water?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (23:48.995)

Mm

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (23:56.009)

No, I mean, I wish. Definitely, I mean, we've been running Artscaping now for just about four years. I mean, the technical incorporation was just about four years ago. And to be very honest, it's been the worst four years of my life. It's been the worst.

Adam (24:15.225)

Having said everything you just said, it's been terrible.

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (24:18.634)

Yeah, but that's the whole point. It shouldn't be glorified. So on the flip side, it is the worst four years of my life, but it's also the best four years of my life because it's meant I've been the most intellectually stimulated. No day has been ever the same. And I fundamentally, as a person, right, so this is my personal opinion, I and my philosophy is that you should seek things that challenge you.

Adam (24:22.164)

Yeah.

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (24:47.746)

So for me it doesn't really matter your phase of life, but the intellectual stimulus and the challenge that you put yourself to. Because at the end of the day, your work, your professional involvement is a substantial part of your life, is what occupies your mind. And so that should be something that lifts you. So I would say it's not...

it's not easy, again it's extremely extremely tough and it shouldn't be done without calculated risk right so look at what it means be very very conscious that most startups will fail and that's totally normal

but it's also a rewarding journey. I find it super stimulating. I would never be here if I was still in my finance job. And this has been definitely the highlight of my week. And that just goes as a testament to the variety of the things you can be exposed to in a startup setting.

Adam (26:01.42)

Absolutely, I'd to change and shift gears slightly and talk about, as you said, coming into a startup environment is very different from a lot of people's previous corporate.

environments. And one of the things that helps you through that is networking, mentoring and those relationships that you build with other founders and with other more experienced people who can can guide you on the way. How important has that been to you? I know that you've had some mentoring experience. How important have you found that?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (26:36.29)

Definitely a big value add. I would say it's nice, it's not necessary, so it's not like you must do it, but I think it's extremely helpful to people who are interested in running their own.

businesses who are already running their own businesses can be extremely valuable and entrepreneurship can be quite a lonely journey. Most external people will think for a very long time that you are crazy. Why did you leave this job? Why did you leave the comfort and the money of this to go and pursue this crazy thing? And so that can be definitely quite alienating.

and I would also say to not underestimate the kind of mental strain that goes with taking on the responsibility of not just running a business but everyone that works with you and so having a support network so more on the peer front is really interesting. Now mentoring I found both up and down to be very useful so I've had

Adam (27:47.53)

Mm

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (27:52.184)

know, peers who are in the CEO, CFO roles later stage than us and conversations with them have been truly, invaluable. So that gives you really an insight into thinking what can be the next thing you can share those challenges and the closer they are to...

doing what you are doing, the better. So I've been speaking specifically to COOs to see, what are their challenges in scaling? How did they overcome them? And once you start to talk in those frames, it doesn't matter if they are related to your business or not. I have a very good friend who's running essentially a software, but they run services for...

for airport management, essentially. it's totally different from us, a completely different world, but we can speak the same language because we're in similar challenges, similar position. And equally for me, down, so being a mentor myself and having mentees, it's been great to be exposed.

to different industries, different problems, and as a way to also reflect on what I've done or what we've done as a company, as an organisation, and how that may be useful or transferable. I also fundamentally think that part of your professional development learning as such is the ability to also share or, I don't want to necessarily teach, but share of those learnings, and that also is a good way to then really for you to challenge yourself

to pick out what were the best things we did and what really drove the success in this and what is the transferable thing for that because what doing that exercise is also helping you in your role because you start to reflect it's so easy for us to basically go from one thing to the next nothing is ever good enough which is fine you know that's that's normal kind of performance thinking and we all get trapped in this cycle but having having someone who is kind

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (30:06.754)

of your talking to you and your sharing and exchanging ideas and advice lets you really pin down, okay, what were those two, three things that really mattered that can be transferred? And that also then solidifies your thinking and your development. So those have been really valuable to me.

Adam (30:25.982)

Hmm. And I know that when I've tried to find mentors before, I've often found it to be a little bit transactional in nature. And I wondered if you found the same or how you've you mentioned about

you your friend who's got the software, the airport software company, and you use the word friend, right? So that suggests that it's not a transactional relationship and that you've had some good experience really deepening those bonds. So how have you managed to move from a transactional to a more established mentor -mentee longer term relationship?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (31:00.37)

I think that one really depends on the connecting point. So how do you know this person? What was the context of that? So there are certain very structured mentorship programs that weren't a set structure very much.

Goals thing and they they have their role and they have their place and it's very much of more of a project management Kind of situation. It's okay. I'm your mentor. Let's talk about what your your goals were for this quarter this this six months How have you progressed since we last spoke? What are the challenges? Why didn't you hit that? so that can be one type of conversation and then there there's another type of mentorship, which is

softer, more social. So this friend that I mentioned, I met him through Technation and we just kind of connected by the nature of being part of this organization and therefore decided, okay, we would like to keep having regular conversations. But then yes, is it less structured? Absolutely. But has it been incredibly valuable to me?

Definitely. So I'd say it really depends on what's the structure. And probably then to go back to this idea of general learnings is if any of the listeners here probably have tried something and they just said, look, this is not for me. This was way too unstructured. I didn't actually achieve any goals. Then try to find communities that are proposing something a bit more structured or equally if you're like, okay, look, I need someone.

who's in a similar role and I want to bounce ideas and I'm struggling with these kind of challenges and maybe it's a touch looser or it's more of an ongoing basis, then try to seek that out. I don't necessarily think that there's one way only to do mentorship or mentee -ship. So really if you've had kind of a not the best...

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (33:16.328)

experience with it doesn't mean that this isn't for you. I will try another format, another community.

Adam (33:24.936)

Yeah, absolutely. I guess it's whatever works for you as an individual and the lesson there is just keeping going, right? And keeping on trying to find the right thing for you.

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (33:32.096)

Yeah, and then the thing is that things change, right? So what might fit you at one stage of your involvement or of your professional path might fit you very well in that moment, in that year, in those six months, but then that changes and that's also fine, right? So we're dynamic by nature, everyone. And so I would say not being too judgmental on yourself or the situation because of that, things change and that's fine.

Adam (34:01.948)

Excellent, excellent. Okay, great advice. And now I'd like to move on to what I call our business book bonus section. So this is where we ask our guests to provide us with a recommendation for the audience of a business book or any business content that's really helped you during your business career and that you'd like to recommend. So what business book or other content would you like to recommend, Emilia?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (34:27.97)

Yes, so I'd like to bring hopefully something slightly different. I think by all means your classic business books are really really good. I mean I'm a strong believer in OKRs and all the literature on that and reading about performance teams and so forth.

But the tip I would give is the book, Let My People Go Surfing by Yvonne Chouinard, who's the founder of Patagonia. And why is it I think is so interesting to not just read about...

his entrepreneurial journey, but the idea of bringing in sustainable thinking and kind of, me even expand it to say altruism in some sense, into running or participating in a business.

is really really really interesting because it's not just okay Patagonia cares a lot about the environment this is what they are very famous for they are very much involved the brand as such is all about sustainable garment production and you know he really recognizes that any type of garment production the moment you have fabric involved the moment you have cotton involved you're gonna have chemicals you're gonna need to do this and this

Is that transferable to a software company in art? Not so much, but the thinking, okay, how can I bring in sustainable thinking and or also thinking sustainably for my team, right? So Patagonia is very well known for also letting employees try to go on meaningful sabbaticals or pursuing something more than just their...

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (36:17.89)

their professional role as such. Even things like, how can we bring in better ways of working? How can we be more sensitive to work -life balance? I mean, they have a, I think they have a nursery at the HQ and things like this. It's really nice to read about these new ideas that really go outside the box in terms of running a business and also the sustainability angle.

How can we live in a more sustainable way? How can we be more conscious about it? How can we help each other and educate each other on it?

Adam (36:56.528)

Excellent. Now that's great answer. One of the best we've had actually Emilia, so thank you very much. That was brilliant. No, no, no, really. I like the sustainable thinking. I like that approach. no, that's brilliant. We'll add a link to that in the show notes so the audience know where to find that. And I guess before we wrap up, is there anything that we haven't covered that you'd like to say or where could people find you if not?

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (37:01.239)

I'm sure you say that to everyone, come on!

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (37:22.862)

Yes, so I'm very happy to connect with anyone on LinkedIn. I try to also post a bit of content and especially those of you are interested in sort of art and finance. Definitely that's one of the key things I try to talk about. I'm very happy to connect. I'm not always the best at responding immediately, but connect and let's start a conversation.

And yeah, I'm very happy that you invited me, Adam, and I hope that the conversation has been helpful. yeah, any questions or feedback are incredibly welcome and yeah, happy to hear them.

Adam (37:53.127)

Excellent.

Adam (38:08.616)

Excellent. Well, thank you so much and thank you for joining me today on the Fractional CFO show. I really appreciate your insight, your perspective and your time. Thank you.

Emilia De Stasio (Artscapy) (38:17.506)

Thank you so much, Adam. Thanks so much for listening.