Why Forecasting Revenue Is So Hard

Why is revenue forecasting so difficult in agencies and project-based businesses?

In this episode of The Fractional CFO Show, Adam Cooper speaks with Julia Longo, Group Finance Director at SAENTYS, about the operational and financial realities of forecasting revenue in a fast-moving creative consultancy environment.

SAENTYS operates across the UK, France and Switzerland, supporting clients in the real estate, hospitality and destination sectors. Julia oversees finance across multiple entities and shares a practical, experience-led view of how forecasting, reporting and operational planning work inside an international agency business.

The discussion explores the difference between billing forecasting and revenue forecasting, and why many businesses have strong visibility over invoicing and pipeline activity but still struggle to understand future profitability and utilisation properly.

Adam and Julia discuss the challenges of managing constantly shifting project scopes, changing client deadlines, freelancer requirements and resource allocation, all while trying to maintain accurate financial reporting and forward-looking visibility.

The episode also covers the importance of management accounts, KPI reporting, operational finance processes and cross-functional collaboration between finance, client services, operations and creative teams.

Other topics covered include:

• Revenue forecasting vs billing forecasting
• Financial planning in project-based businesses
• Profitability management for agencies
• Cash flow forecasting and pipeline visibility
• Resource planning and utilisation management
• PSA systems and operational reporting
• Finance leadership in creative businesses
• International reporting and multi-entity finance operations
• Forecasting challenges in professional services firms
• Improving financial visibility through better systems and processes
• Time tracking, project profitability and operational accountability
• Management reporting for growing agencies
• Finance transformation and process improvement
• Forecasting uncertainty and decision-making with incomplete data
• The role of finance in supporting operational performance

Julia also shares insights from her non-traditional route into finance leadership, moving from a background in chemistry and operations into senior finance roles within the agency world. The conversation highlights why strong finance leaders in creative and professional services businesses need commercial awareness, operational understanding and the ability to work closely with non-finance teams.

This is a practical conversation for agency founders, finance directors, COOs, management accountants, project-based businesses and professional services firms looking to improve forecasting accuracy, profitability, financial visibility and operational decision-making.

Guest:
Julia Longo - Group Finance Director at SAENTYS

Hosted by:
Adam Cooper - ACC Finance Solutions

Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and all major podcast platforms.

#FinancialForecasting #RevenueForecasting #ManagementAccounts #CashFlowForecasting #Profitability #AgencyFinance #FinanceLeadership #OperationalFinance #ProfessionalServices #BusinessGrowth

Transcript

Adam Cooper (00:01.541)

Okay and welcome to the Fractional CFO Show and today I'm very pleased to be joined by Julia Longo who is the Group Finance Director at SAENTYS and Julia welcome to the Fractional CFO Show, how are you doing today?

Julia (00:16.088)

Hi Adam, I'm good, thank you. Thank you very much for receiving me today.

Adam Cooper (00:21.195)

Well, thank you for joining. Yeah, really looking forward to this one. yeah, this one is a little bit different because we're going to dive into one area of agency finance, which a lot of founders, agency owners find difficult, which is forecasting revenue and why that is and can be such a challenge, and particularly in the current climate. So we'll jump into that. I guess to start with, it would be great to understand a little bit more about

yourself Julia and how you came to be working in the role you are today. So would you mind giving us a couple of minutes of background on your role and the business you're in today?

Julia (01:01.174)

Yeah, sure. So I'm currently a SAENTYS group finance director. I started working at SAENTYS about eight years ago where I started as a finance manager. SAENTYS is a strategy and creative consultancy. It's international actually, strategy and creative consultancy.

We specialize in the real estate destination and hospitality sector. We have offices in Paris, Zurich, Geneva and London. So we are a small but complex business.

My background actually initially is an auditor in finance, I studied chemistry. I moved over to the UK about 28 years ago and I started working for various businesses doing payroll and

bookkeeping and then I discovered a passion for bookkeeping and accounting. I eventually was employed by a PR agency where I discovered the world of agencies and what it meant to work in finance for an agency and the creative industry which I found passionating because it was very different to any other industry I worked in before.

Adam Cooper (02:27.313)

Excellent, Quite the journey you've been on and fascinating to hear when people come from a non-finance background and particularly chemistry is very different. Obviously there are some similarities but it's a fascinating journey and I guess that takes us nicely into where we can start which it'd be great to understand how you have found coming into finance from that non-traditional route and how you feel that's influenced how you think about

systems and finance processes, has that been influential in terms of how you've gone about things, do think?

Julia (03:06.572)

I think so because when you're coming from my background everything is about processes, procedure, results, consequences and planning. So I think it's perfect match to actually work in finance and I've got to say it's much simpler than...

if I had to apply both principles in chemistry. So I think it really helped me with my discipline and my thought process, analytical process, analytical thinking as well. Yeah, so I think, and also because I come from a different background, it helps me to think outside of the box, I would say.

Adam Cooper (03:48.415)

Yeah, I'm sure. And do you think it affects how you work with non-finance people on the day-to-day basis?

Julia (03:56.151)

Absolutely. Absolutely. I've never believed in working in a finance role and having my own office and just talk with finance people and accountants. I've always seen myself as a full part of the business and I think it's key to the success of the role actually in an agency.

Adam Cooper (04:17.451)

I couldn't agree more. And do you think, I guess a follow on question from that would be, do you think that if you're from a more traditional finance background or in a more traditional finance team, sometimes that means you miss things that, you know, as a result of being more integrated into the business, as you've just described, you get closer to the business. Do you think there's a disconnect that you can have if you come from a more traditional background?

Julia (04:45.09)

Possibly, yes, especially if you're coming from a practice.

say anything wrong about people working in practice but it's not the same culture. So the gap is within the culture.

Adam Cooper (04:59.659)

Yeah, no, no, couldn't agree more. And I think, as you said, the agencies are quite unique in terms of how they approach things, they're quite a unique business model. I mean, every business has its unique specificities. So it's not just agencies, but I think if you're...

Julia (05:15.341)

Yes.

Adam Cooper (05:16.575)

good at interacting with people if you're ingrained within the business and you think with a more people-focused and commercial mindset, it stands you in good stead, which, as you say, you don't often have coming from a more traditional background.

Julia (05:30.018)

Yes.

Adam Cooper (05:32.349)

Okay, excellent. And you've obviously been working in finance a while. I'd be interested to hear about some of the things that you feel have changed from a systems perspective in the time that you've been working in finance. What has been the biggest changes that you've seen?

Julia (05:50.483)

in terms of technology or in terms of new systems coming up which could more or be the same.

Adam Cooper (05:57.256)

Yes, yeah.

Julia (06:01.174)

I think there's been a huge improvement in accounting platforms. Businesses don't have to just rely on Sage line 50. Not that I don't like Sage, but yes, exactly. Things have started to move a bit with, for example, the operation of platforms such as, I'm just going to say Xero already. Also, OCR technology, when receipt banks start

Adam Cooper (06:13.631)

Thankfully, yeah.

Julia (06:31.088)

implementing that and so I think they know called XTARP although it's maybe now not as relevant as before but that was a great improvement and also the development of special special specialization of certain platform to become PSA platform instead of ERP platform so I know this market for professional services and also of course AI.

and automation. mean, yeah. So it's not AI. So I should say automation and AI.

Adam Cooper (07:10.643)

Yeah, I think it couldn't be 2026 if we didn't talk about automation and AI, as you say. And I guess that takes us onto systems and we can go into AI and automation as it relates to the topic at hand, forecasting revenue and how you have found yourself using systems in a different way today when it comes to forecasting revenue versus when you first started out.

You mentioned some of the platforms there and some of the approaches, using PSA and ERP systems, moving from Sage, not wanting to pick on that again, but moving from Sage to Xero. But these are just tools, right? So how do you find that you're using the tools to improve your forecasting of revenue? And it's a big topic. So yeah, maybe just pick one area of that that we could dive into.

Julia (07:52.312)

Yes.

Julia (08:05.42)

So to use any tool means you want to use data and to be able to use data means that you want to have the most accurate data and put it in the system. And for that to happen, you need to have a user-friendly platform so that everybody can do their bit in the platform. So that's when you're the most likely to have the most accurate data.

So I think for us, used to work with a clunky, referring to my time at Sentis, we used to work with a clunky PSA platform which was old and outdated and that was making forecasting extremely complicated because we had to export the data and spread it out to be shared between different account managers where they will put in

that same spreadsheet they are planning for the future months in terms of invoicing not even in terms of revenue but terms of invoicing and people would insert lines and they will delete lines and they will make mistakes in the spreadsheet and the spreadsheet will be obsolete by the time you reach the finance department and it was a very painful process and to be honest with you frustrating for everyone

on the client services team as well as on the finance team and the leadership team as well. So we changed platform. Luckily we came across with my friend and trusted colleague, we found a new PSA platform to implement which was

how to say, the key points were that the user interface was much more friendlier, but also...

Julia (10:06.232)

we were able to look at the platform and have real-time data on that platform to the point that when we have a leadership meeting, we actually take screenshot of the platform and we use that information during our meetings.

Adam Cooper (10:25.343)

And what do you think in terms of the, because obviously you can have a good user interface, you can have real time data, but there can still be a challenge, right? In terms of adopting the system, in terms of getting buy-in from the wider team. And you mentioned some of the challenges when you were using the shared spreadsheet, which anyone who's worked in finance for any period of time will recognize those challenges. But the simple user interface and, you know,

Julia (10:42.85)

Yes.

Adam Cooper (10:55.145)

the ability to get real-time data in inverted commas, which I do advisedly because it's not always real-time, it's as real as the data that's going into it. So often the challenges around that data that's going into it and therefore the adoption and the adoption across the team. So how were you able to change the mindset of the organization so that you educated them away from the spreadsheet experience?

Julia (11:04.17)

Exactly. Exactly.

Adam Cooper (11:24.869)

and towards that new, the new system experience and get that buy in.

Julia (11:30.863)

Sure, so it was pretty easy to make the move from our previous PSA to the new PSA because the user interface was so much nicer and the processes were so much clearer that...

everybody was delighted to be on board. So all we've done is take something which already existed, improved it and moved on. So that was easy. What was more complicated was the initial PSA platform that we eventually got rid of. But that initial platform where we had to create, analyze all the workflow and create all the new processes in line with the capability of the platform and present that as

Okay guys, this is where we are today. That's where we want to go and this is how we're to do it. And here is your manual. Let's go through it. Do you have any question, suggestion, improvement, doing regular check-ins and really, know, mentoring people on why it's important, especially in terms of time sheeting and...

certain things, i.e. why timesheeting is important to be done accurately and in a timely manner, explaining that we are in the business of selling time, that timesheets are not done to monitor people.

time or start time, finishing time, but purely to understand how projects are running, if we have our services, if we quote it properly, and all those sort of things.

Adam Cooper (13:09.675)

Yeah, no, I think I love that approach and it's exactly the approach that I've seen work well is where you have that education and mentoring and carrots versus stick approach, know, particularly when it comes to using a new system and particularly when it comes to time, which is something that a lot of agencies and a lot of agency owners struggle to implement. And the resistance from the top can often be an issue. So if you're able to get

a more softly, softly approach, which you're able to sell into the business as this is a way of making us more revenue, rather than tracking your lunchtime, as you said, quite nicely there, then this is the successful way of implementing a system. I totally agree. One thing you've mentioned when we were talking earlier is around that, the differences between forecasting of billing.

Julia (13:50.836)

Exactly that.

Adam Cooper (14:07.837)

and forecasting of revenue. So I'd love it if you could expand a little bit more on what you mean by that.

Julia (14:08.162)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Julia (14:13.964)

Yeah, sure. So we have a billing which is a generation of invoices and which is linked to cash really coming in. so that's going to tell you what you're going invoice to which client and when. And then you have the actual revenue, is when is that revenue generated? When are the hours spent?

because quite often you would see that, I mean, we don't deal with retainers. We mainly deal on a project basis. And the way we do our billing is we generally, we win a project, we invoice 40 % upfront and maybe 60 % at the end or 30 % halfway through and 40 % at the end. But as a result, our billing never match our revenue.

But it's very important for us to understand our revenue, which are the actual hours worked in a given period, because that let us know what our performance is against our staff cost and utilization. So the biggest difference is that invoicing is the cash which will come in the future, and revenue is how much...

time is spent on actually generating that revenue. Does that make sense?

Adam Cooper (15:34.141)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, perfectly. And where have you seen that cause an issue in terms of decision making?

Julia (15:44.056)

Okay.

So in terms of decision making, thanks to the implementation of our new PSA platform and a lot of work on my part on our P &L forecast, we have now a very clear idea of what we're going to invest in the future months, what our pipeline conversion is going to be, and so we have potential future income and we can see where things are getting

and if we should start to, know, decision we should start making or not. So that's in terms of invoicing, but in terms of revenue, we found that much more complicated because all our projects are divided in tasks and...

There are so many of them that even if you know a project is going to come through and you try to plan for that project, by the time you reach that time, the data is already out of date and your revenue forecast is not valid anymore and everything has changed. And it's very hard to keep up with all the...

project change, how do you say, deadline change and know, scope change. Yes.

Adam Cooper (17:10.153)

Yeah, no, no, I couldn't agree more. And just a question then in terms of, because obviously you talked about moving systems, you've got the team buying into your new system and inputting data more regularly, both in terms of billing information and time information, et cetera. Do you find that with project scope changing, with timelines changing, how do you manage that side of things? Do you get the...

Julia (17:22.646)

Yes. Yes.

Adam Cooper (17:38.623)

the account managers or account directors or the business people in your business to update the projects regularly? Do you have someone in finance who's overseeing that? Is there an administrator? Like how, that's often the challenge, right? Is how those projects get updated so the timing is realistic. So how do you manage that?

Julia (17:52.706)

Yeah.

Julia (17:57.615)

So

I'm actually leading the finance team as a finance director for the group. And we have a weekly catch up on resourcing and resource planning. We try to book our resources as much as in advance as possible, up to two months, although it's often quite unrealistic before major project coming in. We try to put them in so we know that's coming. And yeah, we have...

weekly update on the...

on the potential revenue, potential need for freelancers, potential no need for freelancer, potential time that certain designer would have, for example, where we can plan for maybe some internal communication, internal work, or maybe as we are operating across different businesses in different country, try to find out if some team members can work for a project for another branch.

Adam Cooper (19:03.167)

I love it, you've touched on so many interesting points there that I want to dive into. Firstly, just on that, yeah I know right, I think there's a, you can tell when two finance people are talking to each other that the conversation flows. Well, you mentioned there about the FinOps resource planning meeting. Who would you typically involve in that meeting for it to be not too many people, not too heavy, but the most productive group?

Julia (19:05.678)

No. Like interco. Intercompany. No. No.

Julia (19:30.287)

So that is led by actually our PMO, Project Management Officer, and the creative director. The reason why the creative director is heavily involved is because he would have the best understanding of who is able to do which task and yeah.

So it will mainly be these two persons. And also, sorry, also the client services team, because they will know where the project is at and what is a priority, what is not a priority, where they can push back with the client or not.

Adam Cooper (20:11.091)

And during that meeting, are you updating the system in real time to reflect the changes and decisions that they have made?

Julia (20:19.138)

So, yes, so what they do is they have a daily brief every morning where they see the task for the day. On the Wednesdays, they plot all the resources for the future days. And then on the Thursday, they review that plan. And Jimena, I'm sorry if she listens to the forecast if I get this information wrongly. But on the Thursday, everything is pushed to our PSA platform.

Adam Cooper (20:44.117)

Got it, okay great.

Julia (20:44.686)

And actually a platform we had to create ourselves because the PSA didn't have the capability of doing that so we had to create it ourselves. But it's integrated with our PSA.

Adam Cooper (20:53.535)

interesting. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, perfect. And then you mentioned there about a couple of other things just to touch on around pipeline. You mentioned about that you're using this meeting and then you're using the forecasting more broadly tied together with the pipeline over the next couple of months to help drive that revenue forecast.

Julia (21:04.13)

Mm. Yeah.

Adam Cooper (21:18.695)

In terms of the uncertainty and again, I know this differs for different agencies who are listening or different business types. Some people have a lot more certainty around pipeline than others, but in terms of a weighted pipeline and how you manage that side of things, could you just give us a little bit of insight into that?

Julia (21:32.268)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, so we have different stages in our pipeline. Quotes are different stages. We have lead, issue negotiation, committed, and of course, one, which is the one we want, right? And they all weighted differently. the reason why we created the committed...

Statures is because you know sometimes when you know you want a project But you don't have the final sign-off so you can't actually send the first invoice So you can't actually include that in your focus P &L, but you know it's coming So we've created these stages so that for this sort of project. We know it's coming and it's weighted at 95 % and yeah, then we have our leads that we wait at

Adam Cooper (22:23.659)

95. Okay, interesting.

Julia (22:29.486)

I would say it depends on the country, so it depends between 5 and 10 percent. And then we have our issue negotiations, are any quotes which are, you know, out with a client waiting for a reply and, you know, a little back and forth with the pricing. And that is weighted at 30 percent.

Adam Cooper (22:49.755)

Interesting. you'll go from

Julia (22:50.914)

So we use that info, yeah. So we actually use that weight, that weight to include that income into our forecast.

Adam Cooper (23:00.299)

Interesting. That's interesting because you from just listening and noting down the percentages. So you go from five to 10 percent for leads to 30 percent and then you jump up to 95 percent, right?

Julia (23:11.894)

because we know that's what we call them committed.

Adam Cooper (23:15.593)

Yeah, No, no, I get it. That's an interesting split. you mentioned there another thing that I wanted to pick up on around the different countries. And we haven't talked about this, but obviously you've got, you mentioned at the outset, you've got offices and sales made in the UK, in Switzerland, in France, I think you said. that's obviously, and sorry, did I forget one?

Julia (23:40.012)

Well, that's what we base, but we actually service many other countries.

Adam Cooper (23:44.62)

Got it, sorry, apologies, apologies, yes. No, no, no, that's good. so you're selling in multiple countries, you're based in UK, France and Switzerland. There's obviously challenges there, right? In terms of managing a multi-entity business in managing from a finance perspective around FX, foreign exchange, around the operations and the business and the different percentages.

Julia (23:46.284)

No, no, it's okay. I didn't mention that, so that's fine.

Adam Cooper (24:11.829)

that you're using in Leeds, as you said. So it'd be great to understand a little bit more about from your role as the group FD, you're overseeing finance in all of these markets. What are some of our audience, small business owners, small agency owners who are looking to start to expand? So they're looking to open their first office in the US or in Europe. What are some of the first things when it comes to revenue forecasting that you would recommend someone considers?

as they're expanding, some of the things you've had to consider as you've expanded.

Julia (24:44.174)

reporting standardization. So having your reports as close to one another as possible and using a strong group consolidation tool.

Adam Cooper (24:47.518)

Okay, interesting.

Adam Cooper (25:04.169)

And which tool, have you created your own one or do you use an off the shelf?

Julia (25:06.51)

No. So because we do business in France, a lot of platforms are not, a lot of platforms don't have an API for French accounting platform because French.

Accounting platforms are quite specific due to the way the VAT returns are done in France. In France, it's not like you have an item and then you have a VAT code and everybody gets posted to your VAT nominal code. In France, it's slightly different. You have a nominal code and then will have a nominal code for normal VAT. You will have another nominal code for zero VAT and it's a...

not reported the same way at all and is very complicated for any platform to have an API for a platform like Xero and PennyLane. we use for our group reporting, we decided to use a platform called Fathom because it's light, it's complex, but it gives a satisfying

light, easily ready report to share with the board. So that's nice. And in there I can actually start to build my forecast based on, so I can build my budget in there and use that as my forecast for operational costs.

But my problem is that Fathom doesn't connect with Penny Lane as I was mentioning and I need to import the French company as a spreadsheet. So the only way I found to be able to do that was to use a platform called Join, J-O-I-I-N, which is actually very good.

Adam Cooper (27:05.215)

Mm-hmm.

Julia (27:08.398)

And yeah, so Join is basically, so I'm doubling up a bit in reporting our platform, but that's the way it works for us. It's a bit tedious, but it's better than what it was before. Does that answer your question?

Adam Cooper (27:24.651)

And I love, it does, it does. And I love that answer because it highlights to the audience some of the constraints that you face from a finance system perspective as you expand internationally, which is not the first thing that people think about. Particularly the board, the founder, the CEO, they're looking to expand. There's commercial reasons to do it. There's business reasons to do it. But the finance systems and process.

Julia (27:41.173)

No.

Adam Cooper (27:52.524)

points that you just outlined are so important and limit your ability to get that reporting out in the same way. So doing something that's light touch, you mentioned Fathom, which we've used a lot, is exactly the right solution to be able to get the information across to the board in a way that they can understand it, but is light touch enough, but works. And I think that's...

Julia (28:02.05)

Hmm.

Adam Cooper (28:18.111)

That's critical, you'll have constraints, people, systems, time, you'll have areas, limited budget and areas to invest in and you need to understand what areas it makes sense to invest in and what areas you gotta work around as you describe. So yeah, that's super helpful.

Julia (28:36.33)

Also, yeah, thank you. And also you need to find accounting partners which are, I mean, it depends on the way you want to work. But for us, it was very important to be able to have this in place, to have strong, forward-looking accounting partners in both the UK, Switzerland and...

France because you can easily end up with accountants which are I don't know old school.

Which is fine to have old school accountants, but sometimes it's too old school and they're not into like, yes, we can try this new platform and we can do this, do that. No, they're very happy if they could keep the books in actual books, they'd be very happy, I feel like. And that doesn't help transparency. So, I mean, when I first started working at Sentice, they were liver art files with things to pay. And I was like, what? What? What is that? What?

Adam Cooper (29:26.208)

Bye.

Adam Cooper (29:36.683)

It reminds me of when I started in some of my roles and you go in and there's rooms of filing cabinets containing transactional data going back 20 years and you're like, yeah, I think we can improve this.

Julia (29:50.127)

And you can archive your stuff as well, you know. Yeah, please do.

Adam Cooper (29:54.632)

It is allowed, yeah, it is allowed. I'd like to go back to one point that you said earlier, which I'd love to just scratch on to get under the surface about is your teams. When you're asking them to learn about new systems, you're asking them to forecast billing, to understand revenue recognition to a point, you're asking them to input time data and yeah.

come into these meetings, how much visibility do you give your teams in terms of the finances, in terms of like, do you open the books in full? Do you let them see client P &Ls, client profitability? Do you give them KPIs linked to the profits on the accounts that they work on? I'd love to understand how you're involving your wider business teams in the finances.

Julia (30:48.696)

So part of the client services team and account manager role is to monitor actually the profitability on their project. And they can view. I mean, it's there for them to look at. It's important that they look at. In terms of business performance, we have a...

I think twice a year we have a meeting, whole-heartedly meeting, we call it, Zempik, where we present, know, forecasted performance for the year and the previous year performance. But then we have reporting at different levels. So we have a director of countries who have access to the P &L and the forecast for each.

for the country and also KKPI such as so gross profit billable per billable per Sorry income per revenue per billable staff And yes

Adam Cooper (32:05.427)

Yeah, no, I get it. And that's really interesting. You've got those different subsets, those different groups that you give visibility on to the relevant finances. So each team member understands the level of finances that they need to do their job and to understand the direction of travel. But it differs, right?

Julia (32:24.79)

And yeah, exactly. also, different people need different data to help stir the business in the direction is required. if we have a country director who has access to the P &L, can see the forecast and realize that also in the past months, maybe the productivity wasn't great, then they know that the forecast is lean, the production in the last few months, although maybe

who were scrapping your profit was low, what does that say? Do we need to review our staffing? How much more work do we need to bring in to reach our net profit target and these sort of things? So there's the people who are able to action those things.

Adam Cooper (33:17.481)

Now that's brilliant. And you're empowering your country directors, you're empowering your client service teams and the wider team. But so, yes, so important. Okay, excellent. And so changing tack now, we're getting to the end. So we like to do something I call the business book bonus section. And this is where we ask our guests to recommend to the audience a business book or another piece of business content, a website or Twitter account or podcast and other podcasts. You are allowed to mention other podcasts on this one.

Julia (33:20.952)

yeah. Yeah.

Adam Cooper (33:47.531)

that has helped you during your business career and you'd like to recommend. So Julie, what would you like to recommend to the audience today?

Julia (33:56.399)

So I would like to recommend a book by Neil Backwith. That's B-A-C-K-W-I-T-H. The name of the book is Managing Professional Communications Agencies. You...

struggle finding a copy of this book but to me when I first started working in PR and I to look at pricing and how to make a profit in an agency that was my Bible and still now it still teaches you everything you to know to run a profitable agency and how to calculate your rate card and everything is brilliant and is in an easy language as well.

Adam Cooper (34:39.263)

Nice.

Julia (34:39.326)

And in term of podcasts, I will recommend Handbook, which is with Arv Nagra, my friend and ex-colleague. And yeah, so that's my go-to podcast.

Adam Cooper (34:53.141)

Perfect, yeah know Harv and I know that podcast very well so you know that's very happy to mention that. Neil Backwith and Harv Nagaram, we'll put links to those in the show notes. So thank you very much Julia and thank you for your time today, really appreciate it. Is there, I guess, just to wrap up, somewhere where people can find more information about yourself or more information about what you guys do over at SAENTYS?

Julia (34:56.066)

Yes.

Julia (35:06.744)

fantastic.

Julia (35:20.462)

Yeah, of course, LinkedIn. And of course, people can check out our beautiful website at sentis.com.

Adam Cooper (35:23.917)

Perfect.

Adam Cooper (35:29.149)

Amazing, amazing. Well, thank you ever so much for your time, your insight, and you really appreciate it. Thank you.

Julia (35:32.92)

Thank you.

Thank you for having me, Adam.

Adam Cooper (35:37.622)

Thanks, Julia.