SPEAKER_02: Okay, what's the cover?
SPEAKER_02: Stay here for now.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: I don't want everybody else.
unknown: Okay, grab the seat, grab the seat.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, welcome, welcome to the class.
SPEAKER_02: Um, as you know, we're gonna be discussing the 15th century use of um uh Gregorian chance this class.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, we're gonna do some parenting class.
SPEAKER_02: So it's good to see some parents here uh for that and hopefully be some fun.
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, like I mentioned in the blurbs, it's the idea if you just get one tool in your tool toolbox.
SPEAKER_02: We've I've accomplished my goal here.
SPEAKER_02: So uh we've got some experienced parents up front, um, but uh let's do some.
SPEAKER_02: Do they look a little bit battered and bruised?
SPEAKER_02: Okay, there you go.
SPEAKER_02: So that's it, not that everybody's uh perfect parents, but we will learn from our interfaces as well.
SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, so my name is John Eichert.
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm the newest oldest elder.
SPEAKER_02: I'm the oldest elder.
SPEAKER_06: Congratulations.
SPEAKER_06: Oh you're the elder elder guy.
SPEAKER_02: The elder elder, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: Um let's see, about 40 years ago, I was the youngest elder.
SPEAKER_02: So I'm full circle now, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: So um let's just introduce our little panel here.
SPEAKER_02: Um we've got Rick and Jan Altizer, and we'll do a little more introductions later on.
SPEAKER_02: And then I got Kristen and John Kreckman, and then Al Williams, and Brenda's got Paul to uh um nursery duty, so but uh yeah, you can still contribute.
SPEAKER_02: But it'll be a little bit more exciting.
SPEAKER_02: It will be concited.
SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02: So uh so that's kind of going to be the format.
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'll introduce the subject, talk about it a little bit, and then ask some of these guys some, you know, their real-world experience and what tricks and sorts they might have learned, and then a little bit of time for you guys to interact as well.
SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I've got public assignments and things for you to do in the meantime.
SPEAKER_02: So, but let's open in prayer to get started with that.
SPEAKER_02: Lord God, we thank you for um the younger parents and the parents of our congregation.
SPEAKER_02: And like Kenny says, kids are not our future, they are our congregation, and we really want to invest in our kids, our kids' lives.
SPEAKER_02: And this is one way we can do that by becoming better parents, uh, by learning from others, and uh just uh being encouraging and more godlike in our parenting.
SPEAKER_02: And uh, we know we make mistakes, but we know that you cover mistakes, and your will gets done in spite of that.
SPEAKER_02: So we just pray that uh just this morning and and in the future sessions that this will be just a time of joy and fun and as we all practice parenting together.
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm gonna hand out a couple things for you here.
SPEAKER_02: Just uh you know, it takes a one or two each and pass around.
SPEAKER_02: That's just kind of the schedule for the next several weeks of some of the topics we're gonna do, and some are more fun than others.
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm also gonna pass this around too to get us started on parenting style.
SPEAKER_02: Is anybody familiar with the concept of parenting styles?
SPEAKER_02: Oh, good, okay.
SPEAKER_02: Um, I should probably keep one for myself too.
SPEAKER_02: And my source of the we we all have different kinds of parenting styles.
SPEAKER_02: We grew up with different parenting styles, um, and uh there's lessons we can learn from that.
SPEAKER_02: But uh, this is kind of taken, this is kind of um uh modern or current thinking on parenting styles comes from various sources, including uh a focus on the family and others, and it just kind of gives you a little bit of a grid of styles and where we fit into those.
SPEAKER_02: Um, and some are good and some are detrimental to our kids.
SPEAKER_02: Um, but the basic uh premise is that um if you see on the left side we've got responsiveness, that's our interactions with our kids, how responsive we are to them, um, and as you know, we we want to be very responsive.
SPEAKER_02: But if we're very responsive but we don't ask anything of them, then we're kind of in a bad place, you know.
SPEAKER_02: So uh demanding this is also um our expectations, setting expectations for our kids.
SPEAKER_02: So just you know, when when you look at kind of the lower left corner where people are neither responsive to their kids or expect anything of their kids, you're in that neglectful kind of range.
SPEAKER_02: And uh neglectful parenting is where you're kind of emotionally unavailable, um, not there for your kids, um, you're you're really not paying attention to what they're they're doing.
SPEAKER_02: They're kind of left on their own for everything, you're kind of detached, um, you're not really communicating with them.
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, you very often a uh neglectful parent might not be intending to be a neglectful parent.
SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes, you know, I can imagine like a single parent where they're trying to work two jobs, trying to, they just can't pay attention as much as they'd like to, so they kind of become neglectful parents.
SPEAKER_02: Um, sometimes because they've been neglected as as uh growing up, and that's the only parenting style they know.
SPEAKER_02: Um, so you end up with kind of free-range kids that are undirected and have no expectations set for them.
SPEAKER_02: So one of the examples uh from the Bible is if you think of King David, actually has exhibited some ideas of a of a neglectful parent.
SPEAKER_02: Um, in 1 Kings 1 through verse 6, um, it basically says that this is where David's sons were rebelling against him.
SPEAKER_02: And is it does somebody have that available?
SPEAKER_02: 1 Kings, I think, in the Bible.
SPEAKER_02: So unfortunately, we do have some examples of bad parenting in the Bible.
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think maybe a little bit of Jacob, too.
SPEAKER_02: They had all those 12 sons and didn't pay much attention to it.
SPEAKER_02: Um, but let's look at uh what was the chapter?
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh 1 Kings 1, verse 6.
SPEAKER_02: I got it.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05: His father had never at any time displeased him by asking, Why have you done thus and so?
SPEAKER_02: He also was very handsome, man.
SPEAKER_02: He was born next after Absalom.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so this is this one.
SPEAKER_02: There's David didn't discipline his kids, it wasn't connected.
SPEAKER_05: So John, they also have you had sent us an article.
SPEAKER_05: Additionally, David refused, this is not out of the Bible, this is commentary.
SPEAKER_05: Uh additionally, David refused to deal with, and I'm gonna mispronounce it, uh, Adonijah's brother Absalon for killing his brother Amon, or Amon, and Amon when he raped his sister Tamar.
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
SPEAKER_05: So he just sort of turned the blind eye towards that.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, with that as well.
SPEAKER_02: So that's low community, low involvement, and uh can really produce kids that are are um uh clueless, that aren't don't have aren't equipped to deal with life.
SPEAKER_02: So that's neglectful parenting.
SPEAKER_02: Um we move to uh permissive parenting.
SPEAKER_02: Um permissive parenting um has a lot of warmth, you know.
SPEAKER_02: They're they're really encouraging their kids, but they don't uh institute any discipline.
SPEAKER_02: I don't get any extremes here too.
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we can fit, we can have attributes of all these.
SPEAKER_02: So kind of where do we fit on the on the grid here?
SPEAKER_02: Um permissive parents want to be their child's friend.
SPEAKER_02: You know, that oh, I just want to be friends with my child.
SPEAKER_02: Well, no, you're not a friend, you're a parent.
SPEAKER_02: So um that's uh so they're they don't set boundaries, they um this is kind of the parent that you know kids come away.
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I got a um participation award, oh I'm really good, I you know, but they haven't achieved anything.
SPEAKER_02: So uh that's kind of the permissive parent.
SPEAKER_02: Um they don't do much follow-through, you know.
SPEAKER_02: If they if they do set limits, they don't follow through on it.
SPEAKER_02: Um, and if I think of examples, my my parents were clinicians at um good parenting, so I I was quite manipulated as a kid growing up because my mother was a kindergarten teacher and they know how to handle kids.
SPEAKER_02: And uh my dad was elementary school principal, so we got double the child psychology, but they they were very good at authority at being somewhat permissive, but having the stamps are the standards as well.
SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, an example of my mother being permissive is as a teenager, my my sisters they had to be back at 11 where they're on a date.
SPEAKER_02: I got till midnight to get home.
SPEAKER_02: So I had a little bit more permissive permission because she expected me as a man to be more responsible, but she also gave me time to get the girl home by 11 and still get home.
SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of a combination of, but a little bit more, I felt more permissive because you know, more permissive treated because of that.
SPEAKER_02: Um and then, of course, the permissive parent doesn't really want to cause trouble with their kids, you know.
SPEAKER_02: They they want to they're gonna give in, they're not gonna avoid conflict as well.
SPEAKER_02: Um Samuel, uh 1 Samuel 2 talks a little bit about um Eli and his sons, who were also priests, and he was really on the permissive scale, he didn't pay attention, he didn't set boundaries for them.
SPEAKER_02: As a result, first Samuel says they were worthless men, and he didn't do anything to discipline them, he just let them do what they wanted to do.
SPEAKER_02: So he was kind of an example of a permissive parent.
SPEAKER_02: Um, not necessarily a bad thing, you know.
SPEAKER_02: In sort of the the thinking, authoritative is best, permissive is next best, neglectful is, and then authoritarian is the worst as far as raising up healthy kids.
SPEAKER_02: So we want to stay away from the authoritarian.
SPEAKER_02: Um authoritarian is the guy who's in control of everything.
SPEAKER_02: They're gonna they're the micromanagers.
SPEAKER_02: They want to, they're gonna, you know, don't think I'm gonna tell you what to do.
SPEAKER_02: Um Tammy's my wife Tammy, her father is a bit of an authoritarian, kind of old school German guy.
SPEAKER_02: And uh just a quick story: when I we were dating, I took Tammy and her sister skiing.
SPEAKER_02: They had their own skis.
SPEAKER_02: We pulled up to the ski lodge and they opened the trunk, got out their skis.
SPEAKER_02: And you know how skis have little clips on them to keep them together?
SPEAKER_02: They you have a little clip on the next, and they proceeded to take them off and put them in the trunk.
SPEAKER_02: Well, the purpose of the clips is so you're not carrying your skis all over the place.
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, why do you take them off?
SPEAKER_02: You need them now, that's why you need.
SPEAKER_02: Well, Daddy said we have to take them off.
SPEAKER_02: So they were very obedient, they have no idea why what the clips were for, but daddy told them to take them off and leave them in the trunk, defeating their purpose.
SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of an authoritarian thing to do.
SPEAKER_02: Um, they're gonna have high expectations, you know, you're gonna get A's, and and that's what I demand of you, and there's something wrong if you don't.
SPEAKER_02: So the authoritarian parent can be pretty overwhelming.
SPEAKER_02: He or she may have a tendency to stomp over the other parent.
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you've got a permissive parent and an authoritarian parent, well, the authoritarian is probably gonna trample on the permissive parent, so that can happen too.
SPEAKER_02: And then everybody kind of cowers under the authoritarian.
SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh the uh if I have a good biblical example, um Colossians 3.21, do not drive your your children to exasperation, right?
SPEAKER_02: So that's the authoritarian person that's gonna uh really affect his kids to the point where they're exasperated and that that kind of loses it.
SPEAKER_02: Um so very often the the person growing up under an authoritarian figure, well, what happens when they finally get free?
SPEAKER_02: Well, they're not equipped, they haven't been equipped because they they only know to follow the rules, and so they're the ones that kind of go crazy freshman year in college and do the rebellion thing because suddenly the fetters are off and I'm free to front around.
SPEAKER_02: Um so that's an authoritarian, and then authoritative.
SPEAKER_02: This is probably you know what what the psychologists say is the best place to be.
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so you have a high involvement with the um child, but you're also high warrant as well.
SPEAKER_02: You're very responsive to their needs, so you're working together, you're setting limits, but then encouraging them at the same time to be able to make those limits, um explaining why the limits are there.
SPEAKER_02: Um another example for my my youth is um when I went out to uh you know, when you're in high school, um, mom, can I go to a party?
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's gonna be drinking there, and you know, the authoritative parent would probably say, No, you're not going.
SPEAKER_02: Or if you go and smell of alcohol when you come back, there's gonna be hell to pay.
SPEAKER_02: The neglectful parent would say, What you got you got a party?
SPEAKER_02: I wasn't aware, you know.
SPEAKER_02: So uh the permanent parent might say, Oh, go and have a good time.
SPEAKER_02: So my mother, instead of saying all that, she said, Well, yeah, go go and have fun, but remember you're an Iker.
SPEAKER_02: You know, she she the authoritative was you have an internal guidance system, you're an Iker.
SPEAKER_02: There are certain expectations that come with being, you know, you're not like the others, you're an Iker, you know, you have integrity.
SPEAKER_02: So it's it was a great way of showing permissiveness, but yet not being authoritarian or anything about it is authoritative because that was you know, she could have put handcuffs on me, but going as an Iker, that was just as much.
SPEAKER_02: No thanks to Habrubier, you know.
SPEAKER_02: So um, just a good example of how they they do that.
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh uh Proverbs every yeah, Proverbs 1531.
SPEAKER_02: And while they're doing that, somebody else look up Deuteronomy 6, 5 and 7, 5 through 7.
SPEAKER_03: Is it 1531, Proverbs?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Um you who uh he whose ear listens to the life-giving reproof will dwell among the wise.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that's this was wisdom being able to listen to that authority of parent.
SPEAKER_02: Accept and reproof.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, Deuteronomy?
SPEAKER_04: What was the Deuteronomy?
SPEAKER_02: Uh Deuteronomy 6, 5 through 7.
SPEAKER_05: 5 through 7.
SPEAKER_05: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and all your might.
SPEAKER_05: These words which I am commanding you today shall be set on your heart.
SPEAKER_02: Keep going.
SPEAKER_05: Um, you shall teach them diligently to your sons, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up, you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.
SPEAKER_05: You shall write them on your doorposts of your house and on your gates.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so this is living and breathing your faith in all aspects.
SPEAKER_02: Speaking of your faith in front of your children, just at the dining room table, just as a natural part of who you are, and then that really exposes them to a genuine faith rather than you know just on Sunday mornings around the table.
SPEAKER_02: So um, and then of course I think Mary and Joseph were uh examples of authoritative parents.
SPEAKER_02: Um, because you have to remember after um Matthew 2, 51 and 52.
SPEAKER_02: Matthew, somebody want to look that up.
SPEAKER_02: Remember, Jesus was left behind at the temple, they had to go back and get them.
SPEAKER_02: Matthew 2, what?
SPEAKER_02: Matthew 2, 51 and 52.
SPEAKER_02: I don't have a 51 in Matthew 2.
SPEAKER_02: Matthew 2?
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm sorry.
unknown: Yeah, Matthew.
unknown: Yeah, I don't have a 51 in Matthew 2.
unknown: Maybe it wasn't Matthew.
SPEAKER_06: And he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was submissive to them.
SPEAKER_06: And his mother treasured up all these things in her heart.
SPEAKER_06: And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.
SPEAKER_02: So it's continued in subjectation to his parents.
SPEAKER_02: So his parents then raised him in a way that he grew in stature and favor with God and man.
SPEAKER_02: So it was authority in his life.
SPEAKER_02: Um okay, quick assignment now.
unknown: Kind of got an overview of these styles.
unknown: Um, so I want you to think a little bit now.
SPEAKER_02: So five minutes, you got five minutes, and the question on the table is with you and your spouse, is um what do you think the other person's parenting style is?
unknown: Not what you think yours is, but what do you think the other spouse's parenting style is?
unknown: Okay, go.
unknown: It's my heart right now.
unknown: I've got questions for it.
unknown: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05: This is great, Joe.
SPEAKER_08: It's kind of good.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_01: Let's bring it back.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we would draw the number of things.
SPEAKER_02: So you have to say there can be things that happen in when when you have different parenting styles, that can cause conflict, and you end up sending mixed messages if you have an authoritarian and a and a permissive or whatever, wherever you are on the spectrum.
SPEAKER_02: You're going to be different.
SPEAKER_02: So you just have to understand where your differences are so you can be consistent to the kids.
SPEAKER_02: I know kids they know how to manipulate right away off the bat.
SPEAKER_02: They can tell what kind of style you are, and they're going to play you off each other pretty well.
SPEAKER_02: I think it's smiling back there.
SPEAKER_02: Can I have a candy bar?
SPEAKER_02: Well, authoritative was going to say, no, you can't.
SPEAKER_02: It's not dinner time.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, then can I have a candy bar?
SPEAKER_02: Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_02: So they they are very wise in knowing how to manipulate the situation at your favor.
SPEAKER_02: So uh I'm gonna kind of turn it over to some questions for our panel here.
SPEAKER_02: So um first thing is uh uh just introduce your names again and uh let's say what year were you married, and then the names and ages of your kids.
unknown: Okay.
SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02: Oh, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02: I'm uh Rick and Jan.
SPEAKER_06: We got married in 1985.
SPEAKER_04: Were any of you born?
unknown: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: 40 years, and uh we have two sons, uh David and Matthew.
SPEAKER_06: David is 35 and Matthew's 31.
unknown: 32.
SPEAKER_06: 32, just turned 32.
SPEAKER_06: That's right.
unknown: I knew that.
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, last January just numbers are right.
SPEAKER_07: We had three grandsons.
SPEAKER_02: And what would you say is your different parenting styles?
SPEAKER_02: Different?
SPEAKER_02: Well, where are you guys kind of fit on?
SPEAKER_04: Well, we were looking at this and we were blessed to go to John MacArthur's church and went to Growing Kids God's Way program even back ancient days ago.
SPEAKER_04: So we believe not that we were perfect, but we were taught how to be authoritative, but we would um definitely fall sometimes.
SPEAKER_04: We were both admitting that um, well, I I was raised as with an authoritarian authoritarian father, so I leaned more towards strictness, and Rick was raised with permissive.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we tried to land on this, but when we both said our default was to go to authoritarian, but we had a lot of unity in our parenting because we were taught that.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_04: When we go and help us, but we didn't do right.
SPEAKER_06: Well, the things we didn't do right, I would say would be I would be too permissive and she would be more therapy.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, authoritarian.
SPEAKER_04: The candy bar issue was Rick would give it to him, and I'd say no.
SPEAKER_04: When we were going off the rails, when we weren't doing it on the growth.
SPEAKER_04: I leaned to the stricter, and he was definitely raised highly permissive.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you talk about me.
SPEAKER_02: Not to emphasize that or anything, but one of the things we noticed when we first got married was I had a chance to observe her parents' style, which was more authoritarian.
SPEAKER_02: She had the chance to witness my parents' style, which was more permissive and authoritarian.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: So I don't have to live that way.
SPEAKER_04: Right.
SPEAKER_02: We tried to do more.
SPEAKER_02: So it was a real opportunity to see another style and practice.
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, look at your parents too.
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: What worked for them, what didn't.
SPEAKER_02: So okay, go ahead next.
SPEAKER_02: So names, when were you married?
SPEAKER_05: Kristen and John, when were you married?
SPEAKER_05: 1995.
SPEAKER_05: So no, I knew it.
SPEAKER_05: Um we we have these discussions that I talk too much, so I'm trying to like so we have John, who's almost 30, his wife Jane, who's 30, baby Grace, who's eight months, then we have Ben, who's 28, Carolyn, his wife, who is 26, and then we have Virginia Ginny, who is 26, her soon-to-be um husband in May, Zach, who's 26, we have Georgia, who's 24, and then her fiance, Bobby, who is um almost 31.
SPEAKER_05: So if we did a family picture, there would be 10 plus babies, so 11 and a bunch of dogs and cats, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm amazed that you knew all the things.
SPEAKER_05: I know, that's impressive, and you don't, so that's another thing.
SPEAKER_05: Your kids will quiz you as you get older, and then you're like, you try to remember their birthdays.
SPEAKER_05: You're like, okay, you were born in, and they wonder why you have to like, and so we have a cheat sheet we hang up of birthdays, anniversaries, because um, and they will always say, uh, you know, you didn't do that for so-and-so, and it has to be fair, you know.
SPEAKER_05: Well, life's not fair.
SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, you're not my favorite today, but try again tomorrow.
SPEAKER_05: So you you learn, you you try to be fair, that's different seasons of life in different ages.
SPEAKER_05: And we're talking to Al, every time they brought a boyfriend or girlfriend or even a friend home, it changed our family dynamic, um, depending on the season, and so we're still trying to child.
unknown: Okay.
SPEAKER_03: With that parenting styles, what was the best place for some?
SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, um, it all depends on the day.
SPEAKER_03: I you know, uh when I'm on my when I have my better angels, I'm authoritative.
SPEAKER_03: Um, but when I'm post-call or you know, um things aren't going well, uh I it doesn't take much for me to move into the authoritarian and just start saying this is how we're gonna get it done.
SPEAKER_03: And you know, I mean I I I think you know it, you know, it we I understand classifications based on a thing, but I you know it's just like different times and different uh situations would would uh lean us to work towards more one of one or more of these things.
SPEAKER_03: But I would say in general we were we we would you know be authoritative, but um yeah, I think my my uh but when my margin was thin, I become authoritarian.
SPEAKER_05: And I think to differ kids' personalities, so um emotionally, physically, socially.
SPEAKER_05: Um we one of our sons wasn't diagnosed with uh ADD until he was in high school, and he's he's fine now.
SPEAKER_05: I mean, he's great.
SPEAKER_05: Um, but we had a lot of additional stress as a young family.
SPEAKER_05: Um John had open heart surgery, he treated a patient, picked something up, and became a case study in Chicago.
SPEAKER_05: No, I'm just sure.
SPEAKER_05: And we had a daughter who was a St.
SPEAKER_05: Jude patient, so we had a kid with cancer for three years.
SPEAKER_05: So we had a variety pack of things going on, and then people stepping in to play the parent role.
SPEAKER_05: So um, depending on which child you asked at what time, yeah, yeah, where they were birthday.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's that's probably a cue that you know that there's a time in your life where you you are the neglectful parent by out of necessity.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you turned out and like some people have to fill that void.
SPEAKER_02: So that's a good point.
SPEAKER_02: But sometimes you have to intentionally move from different parts of the grid depending on the situation, just to make it harder on you.
SPEAKER_00: Now you're up.
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
SPEAKER_00: Um if Brenda were here, she would say I was the perfect parent.
SPEAKER_04: Is this being recorded?
SPEAKER_04: I was gonna record this.
SPEAKER_00: Actually, no, I'll so I first I'm supposed to say kind of for Brenda, right?
SPEAKER_00: Um, I felt like Brenda was more in the depending from authoritative to authoritarian.
SPEAKER_00: She was never neglectful, uh, never really permissive from what uh my memory uh is.
SPEAKER_00: Now, if she said about me, I ranged over all these things.
SPEAKER_00: Um my career had me traveling uh probably more than most people, would be my guess.
SPEAKER_00: Um I remember one one or two years, I think I was out like 20 different weekends.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, because I traveled long distances, and um so um and then that actually is it's an excuse though, you know, because when you're home, but but I might sometimes be away for you know like a week or a week and a half, and hey, somebody's like right, then Redwood reminded me, hey, wait, you've been kind of gone.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't really, you know, if you're not present, you don't have as much real authority, so yeah, be a little chill.
unknown: So that was a good directive.
unknown: So I've arranged over all of these, uh, and it's also different based on child's and the temperaments.
SPEAKER_00: So our children are coming up on ground of birthdays, be 36, 34, 31.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're married in 1984 on June the 9th, just let you know.
SPEAKER_00: So I know these actually uh no a kid's birthday, uh no uh no grandkids, one child's gonna divorce.
SPEAKER_00: That's a good accomplishment there.
SPEAKER_00: Uh one child's gonna get married uh in August.
SPEAKER_00: Uh so that's uh it's a nice thing to know grandchildren.
SPEAKER_00: Don't even know if we ever will have grandchildren.
SPEAKER_00: That's uh not a sad thing as well.
SPEAKER_00: So, but the the children were all different, and so um sometimes the style different styles might work a little bit differently with each child, and so some children might need a little more authoritarian than others do.
SPEAKER_00: So uh my parents were my mother especially.
SPEAKER_00: My stepfather wasn't as uh I mean he was always there, but he wasn't like you know, hey, you know, we're coming down hard, but my mother didn't either, she generally uh trusted me, and I was actually a compliant kid.
SPEAKER_00: Occasionally I got away with stuff.
SPEAKER_00: But for example, I could uh I got my driver's license the day I was 16, and I was out like three in the morning at a friend's house playing chess.
SPEAKER_00: So I got home, my mom said, Hey, maybe that wasn't a good idea to stay at last night.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess you're right.
SPEAKER_00: Or I'd be out and hey, what'd you do last night?
SPEAKER_00: You came at about midnight or whatever.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what'd you do?
SPEAKER_00: So I can tell you, but I don't really think you want to know.
SPEAKER_00: She's okay.
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't necessarily bad, uh, wasn't necessarily good, but you know my sister, she had to really kind of worry about my sister.
SPEAKER_00: Was always she's about to be out drinking, uh running around a little bit late, maybe not the best uh situations ever.
SPEAKER_00: So she had to worry about her, she tried to be authoritarian.
SPEAKER_00: My sister smoked, so my mom would ask me, How do you deal with that?
SPEAKER_00: My sister's perfect.
SPEAKER_00: Why don't she search in there?
SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, I think when my sister comes home, you you sit on the couch and kind of smoke a cigarette and say, Hey, like to have one.
SPEAKER_00: And my sister knows she got busted, and the one didn't like it, you know.
unknown: So my mom wouldn't mind playing a practical joke, I'm gonna let you know that.
unknown: Yeah, I've been saying this is really expensive.
SPEAKER_00: So each child is different and uh understanding.
SPEAKER_02: I think we just witnessed how you manipulated your parents' parents.
SPEAKER_02: Uh so I've I've ranged over over all of these, and um, you know, so what were your parents' parenting style?
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, our parents' parents.
SPEAKER_03: What were your parents?
SPEAKER_03: Oh uh well my dad was uh that's I mean he was an attorney and every day was a I paraphrased it was a cross-examination.
SPEAKER_03: So we're very authoritarian.
SPEAKER_03: But you know, but he was uh as as uh we got older, you know, I think I mean he would he gave me a lot of autonomy, which I really appreciated.
SPEAKER_03: But I knew when I crossed the line that there would be consequences.
SPEAKER_03: So I think he I think he you know I mean he was pretty much a single parent for the majority of my time.
SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, God only gets you so many tools in a toolbox.
SPEAKER_03: And so I think he did a good job with what what he could what he had what he was capable of doing.
SPEAKER_02: Very often the authoritative parent can produce very high achieving kids.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: You know, you went to med school and all that stuff of that high expectation.
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's because they want to earn their parents' respect.
SPEAKER_02: You know, I gotta do this for daddy or mom, but sometimes you do end up as a high achievement person.
SPEAKER_05: Uh, like you said, it can be across the board, but mine were probably more authoritative.
SPEAKER_05: I was in your camp.
SPEAKER_05: Um, my mom worked as a kindergarten aide while I was in school, and then my dad was a high school teacher, coach, assistant AD when I was in high school.
SPEAKER_05: Um, and it varied from kid to kid.
SPEAKER_05: So uh my turnabout date, who I dated for a long time, blew me off, and my sister had already left for the dance.
SPEAKER_05: I cried for half an hour and realized I could take dad.
SPEAKER_05: Uh, so I got along with my dad and brought him to the dance.
SPEAKER_05: My sister, on the other hand, was you brought dad?
SPEAKER_05: You know, so it just depends on the kid.
SPEAKER_05: I liked having him at school as the basketball coach, but maybe Jennifer wasn't as fired up about it.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, we used to uh um chaperone the high school marching band.
SPEAKER_02: And my son would say, Okay, I'm gonna be a bus at 28.
SPEAKER_02: You were not to get on the bus 28.
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: But he didn't really mind having us around.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let's explore a little bit how if you can think of examples where your kids might have conflict in your parenting style, either exploited by your kids or situations where I have one thing.
SPEAKER_05: So this would be more like junior high high school.
SPEAKER_05: Um, John and I, if the kids came to us with something, because we might be unaware, and we always, with our four kids, we always had three of them who were either in elementary school together or at the high school and in different social groups.
SPEAKER_05: So we would call a family meeting, but the way we ran the family meeting was more authoritarian, where we we would have them write down what you did, write down how we're gonna improve upon this.
SPEAKER_05: Okay, now you say you're sorry to so-and-so, and you say you're sorry.
SPEAKER_05: It doesn't change their hearts.
SPEAKER_05: So um we would have to rethink how we called some of those family meetings when they were you can't force the kids to apologize, and they carry that into adulthood and they remember you made me apologize for you know.
SPEAKER_05: Um so how you deal with that, I I don't, yeah, maybe conversations, but I don't know how you get them to forgive one another unless it's yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05: That's true.
SPEAKER_00: An interesting conflict, I think, with my son is when he uh uh had uh got his license and he's driving this out with some friends, church is free.
SPEAKER_00: And uh it was I don't know, 10 o'clock at night or whatever, and uh knocked over the mailbox the next door.
SPEAKER_00: And uh I don't know if the guy was home was late, and uh the father said, Hey, I'll I'll you know I'll talk with him.
SPEAKER_00: And so next morning at church, uh teaching Sunday school class, and uh uh the the sister of the his friend said, Hey Mr.
SPEAKER_00: Al, did you hear about heart and uh the knocking on mailbox?
SPEAKER_00: I did not hear about that.
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so between Sunday school and church, I called my son into the green room and said, Hey, he goes, Yeah, I meant to tell you.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure you did.
SPEAKER_00: He said, But Mr.
SPEAKER_00: Allen said he's gonna take care of it for me.
SPEAKER_00: I said, No, he's not.
SPEAKER_00: What?
SPEAKER_00: I said, You're going to go to that guy's house.
SPEAKER_00: Right now, he is upset about some teenage boy who didn't take responsibility for this thing.
SPEAKER_00: And I said, So, what you're gonna do is you're gonna go over to that man's house and you're going to tell him he's got some options.
SPEAKER_00: You'll either do the bill after yourself or you'll pay him the money.
unknown: I mean, you're you're gonna give him the options because you're gonna set responsibility.
unknown: Oh no, you know, and money's not there, right enough.
unknown: Well, I need to go to church.
unknown: Like, no, you're leaving church now, you're gonna go to that guy's house, you're gonna do that.
SPEAKER_00: The guy wasn't there, left a note, and said, Well, what'd he say eventually?
SPEAKER_00: He said he would repair it if I paid for the materials.
SPEAKER_00: I said, Okay, so now that guy has a different opinion.
SPEAKER_00: Maybe of teenage boys who took responsibility.
SPEAKER_00: You need to take responsibility.
SPEAKER_00: He didn't want to do it, and uh I thought, oh, but about the part he changed his heart, but sometimes you've got to change their actions.
SPEAKER_00: Um, you've got to correct an action and recognize that we believe it's from the heart.
SPEAKER_00: Maybe eventually it catches.
SPEAKER_00: So he does take responsibility now for things a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but he had to do that.
SPEAKER_00: It was uh it was very important to me that that he owns up for his behavior, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00: Authoritarian.
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you get well, that point may be authoritative, you gotta go do that.
unknown: You gotta go do that, but uh it was a consequence of his action.
SPEAKER_06: But he had to have you guys dealt with conflicts and well, I would say as far as in our parenting styles.
SPEAKER_06: Parenting styles, we were pretty we took some classes early on, and I think we were pretty we were pretty aligned.
SPEAKER_06: You have to take some classes early on.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, seriously, we're so happy that this is here because it's gonna be so helpful.
SPEAKER_06: And so we're pretty well aligned.
SPEAKER_06: I think for us, where the problems came was when we weren't doing well.
SPEAKER_06: Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_06: I mean, all this is great, but basically, if your marriage is good, your kids are gonna be alright.
SPEAKER_06: But I I don't know pretty much kind of strong marriage, there's a really good chance your kids are gonna come out okay.
SPEAKER_06: But you can do a lot of this, and if your marriage is messed up, they're gonna have problems.
SPEAKER_06: And so um good point.
SPEAKER_06: I I think where we went off the line on this was if we weren't doing well, and then that impacted the whole world because I I see the parent-driven is authoritative, but I want to differentiate between parent-centered and parent-driven.
SPEAKER_06: A child-centered home isn't a healthy home.
SPEAKER_06: The child children are they're uh insecure, they have a lot of fear, they need the parent, it needs to be a parent-centered home where the primary relationship, this is what we learned in our growing kids' country quest, the primary relationship is mom and dad, and you are a welcome addition to our home, but you are not the center of it.
SPEAKER_06: This is the center right here.
SPEAKER_06: And so, you know, you have that time, that 15 minutes a day of mom and dad time.
SPEAKER_06: This is the center, and everyone has to respect the center, which is the marriage.
SPEAKER_06: So a married, marriage-centered home is a healthy home.
SPEAKER_06: So for me, I think they're connected, parenting styles and marriage are all intertwined and interweaved.
SPEAKER_06: And you can do a lot of this stuff the right way, but if the marriage is messed up, it's gonna be problems.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I just want to reiterate that too, because definitely, you know, how children are um we're we set the temperature in our homes, so if there's conflict between us, it's really hard for us to really even recognize our kids' issues or emotional situation when we're having unresolved conflict, you know, and again, that also is a measure of our our real submission to Christ, and so that is something they talked a lot about in our parent class, which of course took us decades to learn, and there was lots of fallout when we started going to marriage.
SPEAKER_04: And I know it sounds like a shameless plug for our marriage work class, but um, you know, seriously, it does help.
SPEAKER_04: Well, I think that was the core of because when our eyes are open to our own brokenness and our need for Christ and our surrender to Him, then that makes us teachable about and recognizing the needs of others, including our children.
SPEAKER_04: So that is the foundation to build upon.
SPEAKER_04: But these are absolutely, you know, I mean you can't impart in your kids that's what you don't have, exactly.
SPEAKER_06: So it comes here, comes here, in here, and then it comes out to here to your kids with each other spiritually.
SPEAKER_06: Gotta be the spiritual leader of your home.
SPEAKER_06: You're praying, you're you're you're you're providing godly.
SPEAKER_06: Leadership in your home, you're repenting, you're modeling that.
SPEAKER_06: This is the strength, this is what the strength is, and then that now you've got a foundation now to parent.
SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Because you're parenting from this.
SPEAKER_06: But when this, and you guys know it.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: When this isn't going good, there's chaos in the home.
SPEAKER_06: It's chaotic.
SPEAKER_04: They feel it.
SPEAKER_04: They can feel it.
SPEAKER_04: And they act out on it, too.
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that they said a while ago, that I think that's I don't know if we're going to cover it, but uh talked about, you know, you're the unit.
SPEAKER_01: You know, God made the two one.
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
SPEAKER_01: That's the new that's the that's the foundation of the family.
SPEAKER_01: So kids come in later, but kids also leave.
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
SPEAKER_01: I I married over a hundred people, maybe I don't know a whole bunch.
SPEAKER_01: Are you polygamous?
SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I'm a polygamous.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's just how I'm under discipline by the session.
SPEAKER_08: What's a different church?
SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
SPEAKER_01: But here's a problem that I see a lot.
SPEAKER_01: And what Jane and I found to do with our kids, we we thought, you know, hey, there are children, we have a big responsibility.
SPEAKER_01: I used to say, take them from the board where they're totally dependent upon us.
SPEAKER_01: In 18 years, or by the grace of God, they're dependent on the Lord.
SPEAKER_01: But what I've seen too many times, and even now, a lot of parents don't handle the leaving very well.
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_01: You know, and a lot of kids don't handle the leaving very well.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that can be a real conflict, you know, if uh like every time there's a trouble, every time you have a problem, if the the the wife or the husband will call, like a dad or mom or a sister or best friend.
SPEAKER_01: And that creates this, you know, you gotta you gotta make decisions and they're gonna be you're gonna fail.
SPEAKER_01: But that's how you learn.
SPEAKER_01: And you gotta build character so that when you get to that point when you have a real crisis, that character keeps that marriage together.
SPEAKER_01: But if you if you avoid it and just take the easy way out, money problems, well, my dad loaned me money or whatever.
SPEAKER_01: And then when you have a crisis, boom.
SPEAKER_01: And so that's why we have so many marriages.
SPEAKER_01: But a lot of parents, I say, not just parents, but siblings, friends, and they really they they don't say it, they say they love the kids, but they don't work with the parents to help those grandkids.
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_01: This thing is a generational thing.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_02: Leave them clean.
SPEAKER_02: You know, they're your parents' style.
SPEAKER_07: Should we get asked questions?
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, that's that would be the next phase.
SPEAKER_07: I'm trying not to get a migrant, so I'm not trying to.
SPEAKER_07: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_07: You literally have eating.
SPEAKER_07: Um okay, so being authoritative, there's a lot of talking about communication here.
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
SPEAKER_07: But when your kids are too little to have open communication, what does that authoritative look like, especially with like a spicy feelings on their sleeve type of kid who isn't?
SPEAKER_07: I mean, he's he's almost two.
SPEAKER_07: So like the meltdowns are happening.
SPEAKER_07: How do you do that without being able to verbally communicate?
SPEAKER_05: Give them two options.
SPEAKER_05: Um voice tone, reinforce that you love him, you know, the sandwich that you learned.
SPEAKER_05: I don't know, sandwich.
SPEAKER_05: Um uh okay, elementary school writing.
SPEAKER_05: Like, yeah, start with the positive, tell them what the behavior is, okay, and you're your options, and then say, but I need to let you know mommy still loves you.
SPEAKER_05: You know, tomorrow's a new day, mommy still loves you, but you're your two options.
SPEAKER_07: But you can't how another's now.
SPEAKER_07: Right.
SPEAKER_07: Well, you're telling them early, early.
SPEAKER_06: Give them uh you're tight, you're tight early.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_06: And so uh and then you you loosen as they get older, but you're tighter early.
SPEAKER_06: You can't when they're as they get older, you can't go tight then.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's too late to go tight.
SPEAKER_06: So if you're tight early, and then you're able to then train them to make good choices, good decisions, that was a great decision.
SPEAKER_06: You made a good choice, so you want to reinforce it.
SPEAKER_06: No, you can't, you you can't jump on the sofa, right?
SPEAKER_06: Oh, you did a good choice, right?
SPEAKER_06: So you're reinforcing, but you're tight.
SPEAKER_06: But then you loosen those boundaries as they get older because at 16, that's not the time to tighten up.
SPEAKER_02: And there's also a way to frame your choices, right?
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
SPEAKER_02: Would you like me to carry you to bed, or would you like to walk to bed by yourself?
SPEAKER_02: Right.
SPEAKER_02: And instead of saying, we don't realize the choice sort of bed either way.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but they get to make the choice of how they do that.
SPEAKER_02: Um and some things are are not worth fighting over.
SPEAKER_02: You know, you're never going to control what they put in their mouth or don't put in their mouth.
SPEAKER_02: You can only show them the consequences.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, you don't want to eat, that's fine.
SPEAKER_02: I'll set it aside for you.
SPEAKER_02: And then an hour later, when they're hungry, okay, you got some cold food here.
SPEAKER_02: You know, so things like that.
SPEAKER_05: There's some.
SPEAKER_05: We had a son who was uh and we didn't pick up on it with the ADD, he'd be going around the kitchen island, tapping out things, ones that's still for homework, he'd have great grades and then math he'd bomb and we'd be like, What are you doing?
SPEAKER_05: And we set up a study station, and you have to sit here.
SPEAKER_05: Wrong approach.
SPEAKER_05: Shit, wrong approach.
SPEAKER_05: Didn't know where's his feelings on his sleeve, so voice tone matter, emotional, can but you know what?
SPEAKER_05: Later on, um, he had seen a psychologist just once, and the man told us that he actually has a sixth sense that the corporate world wants.
SPEAKER_05: Ben can walk into a room and read people, and he'll go up to you and say, Hi, nice to meet you, and then he'll come back and say, Mom, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_05: She said she was okay, but by her eyes, I can tell her something's off, something's wrong.
SPEAKER_05: So those kind of kids have a unique gift that the corporate world wants that you can't teach a kid.
SPEAKER_05: So for somebody who can't sit still, um, when I used to teach, I'd give them, okay, you can stand up and move from this spot to this spot after doing two problems.
SPEAKER_05: You can walk back and forth.
SPEAKER_05: That's okay.
SPEAKER_05: Okay, you know, or or maybe they're auditory or visual, or maybe they need more tactile motion stuff, or you know, you try to um try to get a movie, try to get a movie when he was you know, that that's the no stage, you know.
SPEAKER_02: It is again a mother's story when my two-year-old son, maybe two to two and a half, she was babysitting them, and uh he said no, you know, he was doing that rebellious stuff, but she just leaned over and she said, you know, Tim, um babysitters aren't allowed to spank, but grandmothers are, yeah, and that was enough.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's there's authority there, but you don't have to wield it unless you choose your sound.
SPEAKER_05: Right, Kate's time.
SPEAKER_05: Can I throw something out there?
SPEAKER_02: But I think the key also is not responding emotionally.
SPEAKER_02: Keep it level, yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Um, what I want to throw out, something that I learned over the years, uh, moms in prayer.
SPEAKER_05: Pray for your kid currently, pray specifically, and pray forward for who their spouse will be, who they'll be hanging with, pray forward for any future family members.
SPEAKER_05: Um, and then a plug for you.
SPEAKER_05: He had given us an article, it's Dr.
SPEAKER_05: Kevin Lehman, and he's on Focus on the Family.
SPEAKER_05: You can download the app on your phone and you can listen to it while you're driving in traffic, and you can search out Dr.
SPEAKER_05: Kevin Lehman, and he'll talk about the parenting styles in kids.
SPEAKER_05: He's a child psychologist.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then actually, there's uh there's another set of parenting styles that focus on the family has mentioned too.
SPEAKER_02: Just another way to look at things, what kind of parent are you, or parenting styles, because you're gonna use all elements of these.
SPEAKER_02: The dolphin parent, they prioritize play, exploration, relationships, and downtime.
SPEAKER_02: So those are the dolphins, the playful ones.
SPEAKER_02: Elephant parents, they emphasize attachments of parents and children, they value closeness and connection.
SPEAKER_02: Tiger parents, they demand excellence and high expectations.
SPEAKER_02: Um, free range parents, they value independence and want kids to figure things out for themselves.
SPEAKER_02: They focus on allowing their kids to solve their own problems without much guidance or supervision.
SPEAKER_02: We've got the helicopter parent, I think we've heard about that.
SPEAKER_02: They desire to control every aspect of the child's life.
SPEAKER_02: They value safety above all else.
SPEAKER_02: And then you have the snow plow parents.
SPEAKER_02: They like to clear the way for their kids.
SPEAKER_02: They want to eliminate obstacles, challenges, and problems so their kids will easily find success.
SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't always work because you haven't taught them anything.
SPEAKER_02: So that's another set of styles.
SPEAKER_02: Um, you guys we have time for one more quick question if somebody has a question for the panel.
SPEAKER_02: If not, it's homework time.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I have a comment, I have a comment as well.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, even at the age of two, or at that, you can uh start having like routines.
SPEAKER_00: The routines kind of become rules as well, whether it's uh mealtime, you mentioned bedtime, bedtime is gonna be a certain time, you have variability about how that works out, but yeah, you have that routine, they need to respect that, maybe getting up, or maybe you know, they'll learn the brushes on teeth.
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's other things that will become kind of a regular thing, and they just become a rule that becomes tackle going to church, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Kids love routine, love routine.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, church bells.
SPEAKER_02: The church bells are charming.
SPEAKER_02: Church bells were ringing.
SPEAKER_02: Okay, if you'd like, I'm gonna pass this around because we're on some things to talk about over the week.
SPEAKER_02: Um, there are two links to um to little focus on the family quizzes for our launch parenting style on there as well.
SPEAKER_02: So let's close in prayer, okay?
SPEAKER_02: Lord God, you are the perfect parent.
SPEAKER_02: And uh anything we can learn about from parenting comes from you.
SPEAKER_02: And uh we we pray that as we uh draw close to you, just like a triangle, as we draw close to you, we're also driven close to our spouse.
SPEAKER_02: And uh that the children that come out of that marriage, out of that triangular relationship, grow up healthy and strong.
SPEAKER_02: We pray for that for each of our parents here.
SPEAKER_02: Um so we just ask that this week we would uh go and and learn how to deal with our kids and and put some of these things into practice.
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for the wisdom on the panel here, and uh we ask that uh you would just bless us, we can bless our families.
unknown: Amen.
unknown: Okay, next week, great job.