SPEAKER_03: So let's open in prayer.
SPEAKER_03: This morning we we turned to a very important subject in the life of our children, and that is leading them to Christ and providing that home where Christ is preached and all that we say and do.
SPEAKER_03: So we pray that this our homes will become this way, so that our children, it would be an easy transition for them to take faith off our own.
SPEAKER_03: So we uh said you give us wisdom, especially from our panel here, and uh just ideas and encouragement to to be that kind of model of Christ to our children.
SPEAKER_03: Amen.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, um, so we're gonna kind of go through an outline here, um, and that's from the I think the first thing I want to say though is that um leading your children to Christ is a little bit of a uh misnomer because we can lead them to Christ, but we can't it's only the Holy Spirit that brings them to Christ.
SPEAKER_03: So there are no guarantees here.
SPEAKER_03: You know, there there the world is full of children, not to discourage you, but the world is full of children that were raised in Christian homes that want to do with Christ, that haven't made that decision.
SPEAKER_03: It's still there, you can't make them Christians.
SPEAKER_03: You can provide the most fertile soil that you can.
SPEAKER_03: And so hopefully those seeds will take.
SPEAKER_03: But um and also for for those who have created a fertile ground and the children haven't responded, you still have hope.
SPEAKER_03: You know, you can count on God's word not coming back without producing fruit.
SPEAKER_03: So you know, to the very end, you can you can of your life you can pray for your children with the hopes that um that will take.
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I shudder to think of you know folks that um made no attempt and then the children are off on their own.
SPEAKER_03: So we're providing fertile soil, but uh just know that it's still their choice, just because they're they've um accommodated you all these years, they still need to take on faith for themselves.
SPEAKER_03: So just with that caveat.
SPEAKER_03: Um so I'm just gonna basically use the outline of Deuteronomy 11, uh, 18 through 20, which we should probably have it memorized by now, but um it says, You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul, and you should bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead, and you shall teach them to your sons and daughters, talking of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk on the road, and when you lie down, and when you rise up, and you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
SPEAKER_03: So I'm just gonna use that as an outline and as a springboard for our discussion, and uh go through you know, see if see if we can get through by 10 o'clock, or but yeah, by 10 o'clock, and you guys can kind of think along those lines as well.
SPEAKER_03: So I'll be bouncing things up for you as well.
SPEAKER_03: So heart and soul first, and not the song.
SPEAKER_03: You know, dun dun da da da da.
SPEAKER_03: So uh but the heart and soul is really just suggesting in my mind is that it's simply you can't share what you don't have.
SPEAKER_03: So it's you know your relationship with Christ, which is preeminent in all this, and of course your relationship with each other in Christ.
SPEAKER_03: You know, there's the old kind of an analogy of a you know we we live in a love triangle, you know, there's a husband and wife, and then there's God.
SPEAKER_03: So as our primary relationship is with God, but as we move up the triangle closer to God, is what happens when you're closer to each other as well.
SPEAKER_03: So that's really putting yourself first your relationship with the word first, so that you have something to with your children.
SPEAKER_03: Because nodding heads there, okay, so I'm on the right track so far.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so um next is a sign on your hand.
SPEAKER_03: So I interpret that to be um outward visible actions.
SPEAKER_03: This is your hand, you're you're doing things with your hand.
SPEAKER_03: Your children need to see you modeling Christ in your actions.
SPEAKER_03: And so I'm gonna really quickly turn, you know, what would be an action for your children that maybe you guys modeled, you know, acting out your faith in real life.
SPEAKER_04: Going to church every Sunday.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's a big one, church every Sunday, and making that the priority.
SPEAKER_04: Um not just going serving, being part.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, being a part of church.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: Church isn't just something we go to, something we're a part of.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And not being an option, you know, we're gonna sleep until it's Sunday, but it's also saying no, we're not gonna participate in an activity on Sunday morning.
SPEAKER_03: So maybe saying no to sports or something like that, because they practice on Sundays or play on Sundays.
SPEAKER_03: So it's a good one.
SPEAKER_03: Um and um you mentioned not just going to church, you know.
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm kind of a believer, this is maybe the gospel according to John.
SPEAKER_03: It's that everyone should have two ministries.
SPEAKER_03: One ministry to the church, one ministry outside the church.
SPEAKER_03: So if you're you know you're you're doing all you know, you're doing hospitality at the church, but you're not doing anything for your community, kind of on balance.
SPEAKER_03: So the children need to see you doing both.
SPEAKER_03: Very, very often that can be related to what they're doing.
SPEAKER_03: You'd be teaching Sunday school with kids there, or you could be helping with Cub Scouts or something like that, you know, an outside ministry that your kids see you doing that.
SPEAKER_06: I think anyway, I think a really important thing, probably one of the most important things, is that you model praying and that you model giving thanks and praise when things are good, but then you model, you know what, if something came up that's really traumatic, life-threatening or not, a test, a kid at school, you know, not being nice, they need to see you model that the first place you go is to God in prayer.
SPEAKER_06: And as your kids age, you know, like junior high, high school, they sometimes won't want to talk about God or you're embarrassing me or whatever.
SPEAKER_06: But if you continue it, so uh John and I would text our kids separately because they wouldn't answer in a group text.
SPEAKER_06: And I we might quote scripture or put a prayer in there, but then we would put an emoji, and they would always like heart or like the emoji and not the scripture.
SPEAKER_06: Um, but they're they're somehow, yes, and then as they get older and and something happens, you know who the first people they go to are the ones who are gonna pray for.
SPEAKER_06: So uh moms in prayer.
SPEAKER_06: I got involved when the kids were they were in high school, so I did mops when they were little, mothers and preschoolers, and I did moms in prayer, um high school beyond, and I'm currently in one for moms of adult children and beyond.
SPEAKER_06: And we come together and we pray for our kids.
SPEAKER_06: So there is a generational ripple effect, we're all broken, we all came from something, there was an impact there, and and John and I have also done our fair share of making the wrong decision as a parent because nobody's perfect, we're all broken, and they have different personalities and perceive it differently.
SPEAKER_06: So um, moms and prayer has been a huge tool, and then I in turn tell them that they were prayed for.
SPEAKER_06: So we not only pray for past hurts and current things that are going on, but we pray it forward.
SPEAKER_06: So, for instance, my grandbaby, um, she just moved.
SPEAKER_06: I was helping to watch her, but I had the opportunity at nap time, I would rock her and I would give her all the positive affirmations.
SPEAKER_06: You are beautiful, you are strong, you're observant, you're an active learner, and you are his.
SPEAKER_06: And I'm praying it forward that you will be surrounded by Christian daycare workers.
SPEAKER_06: Um, there might be a neighbor, there might be a family friend.
SPEAKER_06: I'm even praying for your future spouse if there is one out there, and your future boss.
SPEAKER_06: And I'm praying that you will trip over other Christians and that you will be marinated in his work, whether it's on the radio, um, scripture, church, just something grocery store worker.
SPEAKER_06: So pray it forward, and then the other one that I can't stress enough um the armor of God.
SPEAKER_06: So I wasn't fully aware of this until the kids were halfway through school.
SPEAKER_06: He gives you the tools, it's in Ephesians, and we're kidding ourselves if you think we aren't under attack.
SPEAKER_06: So, as Christians, we need to be instructing our kids that they have armor to put on and that they're to use it.
SPEAKER_06: So, anyway, that was in two weeks.
SPEAKER_05: Now we can leave, okay.
SPEAKER_03: So that's on Christianity.
SPEAKER_03: That's part of it.
SPEAKER_03: And and they're seeing it in the house as well.
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, you're modeling it in the house, um just uh yeah, call it hands-on Christianity.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, um, frontals on your forehead.
SPEAKER_03: So this is I interpret this as being this is your intellectual um portion of, you know, we we don't have a blind, stupid faith.
SPEAKER_03: We're we're we have reason to believe, and modeling that in front of, and that's obviously you know what the world sees too.
SPEAKER_03: Um, I used to tell my sons that you know you're Christians, and I don't know if everybody's seen the Hasidic Jews.
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if there's many in this area, but in New York and New Jersey, this they have the the long sideburns, and they stick out, you know.
SPEAKER_03: So I said, you guys are gonna be like Hasidic Christians because who you are and who what you're part of is gonna make you stand out.
SPEAKER_03: So that's sort of the idea behind the frontals.
SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, using your brain, this is not something that uh reasoning with them, reasoning from the scriptures, and helping them to understand that.
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, Joseph hands is kind of what they see, the forehead is what the public sees.
SPEAKER_03: So, how do you model Christ in the public?
SPEAKER_04: I would take that or teach them how to think.
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
SPEAKER_04: Um TV, they're gonna have shows, and uh they're great teaching opportunities.
SPEAKER_04: What does that why is that guy angry?
SPEAKER_04: What's he angry about?
SPEAKER_04: What does God, you know, so always looking for ways to teach them how to think about things, how to process.
SPEAKER_04: Dude, your kids are gonna have so much more crud, they're gonna have to navigate through than I ever thought about having to navigate through.
SPEAKER_04: So teaching them how to think, I mean, early.
SPEAKER_04: Teaching them how to process and how to think.
SPEAKER_04: And why is that?
SPEAKER_04: Why do they yeah, what would the Bible say now?
SPEAKER_04: Why would God say that?
SPEAKER_04: Why would God want us to do this?
SPEAKER_04: You know, kind of just work it through with them, to think it through, to teach them how to think, yeah, teach them how to process.
SPEAKER_03: There's an easy step to just believe what you see on TV or on a computer, you know, without question, that's a part of that institutional thinking is don't accept the things that face value, especially with the world of AI, that's gonna be so deceptive that uh we believe it because we see it.
SPEAKER_03: And you know, maybe the older guys, you know, we're still very skeptical of what we see and hear on TV, but there's a whole generation that doesn't.
SPEAKER_04: Well, now the whole new every every Nickelodeon show, you know, parents are stupid, you disobey parents, you you know, you are parents are just in your way, and they're kind of like the enemy, and your your job is to out you outthink all parents.
SPEAKER_04: You're so much smarter than your parents, and from uh Harry Potter to all over, you know, they're lying and they're deceiving, and this is uh and it's okay.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04: And so being able to see that, like have eyes, watch it with them, and then say, now they did this.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, why you know why what would God say about that?
SPEAKER_04: Why is that not a good thing?
SPEAKER_04: Help them to think through.
SPEAKER_03: And we dealt with that in our generation too, you know, for for decades and decades, the father has always been a caricature.
SPEAKER_03: You know, I I can't think of any shows where the dad was strong and well respected.
SPEAKER_03: Father was best.
SPEAKER_03: I might have been the last time.
unknown: You can't go.
SPEAKER_05: We're going back to the movie.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: So and maybe also as as they get older, really process things, because you would have you would have instructed them about biblical marriage and all that, and they're gonna see a lot of differences out there.
SPEAKER_06: So as they're able to process it, remind them that we are called to love one another, we can love the person and disagree with the decisions they're making.
SPEAKER_06: Because our our objective is not to turn people away, but to show love and then establish a relationship with them, or if it's at distance, just show love through action, that they can disagree with how the person is living or decisions they're making, so that like their friends in junior high and high school as they as they get further on.
SPEAKER_03: Um that's going to apply around the kitchen table too.
SPEAKER_03: If you're criticizing and putting other people down in front of your kids and they learn that's a way, especially the pastor elders that you know, yes, that's right.
SPEAKER_00: Only one particular elder, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So back on the uh back on the thinking part too, the other critical we thought was uh controlling education, make sure that was right.
SPEAKER_00: Our kids were homeschooled, though the boys got expelled from homeschool about the high school time, they weren't following all the rules, but they did go to a Christian school, and I'm saying that nothing is perfect with that, but so we did want to make sure they had the right um basis for that.
SPEAKER_00: So Bibles in the curriculum, um, learning with that.
SPEAKER_00: Um I was fortunate enough to teach my daughter through three years of uh Sunday school, so I know that we got we went through the Bible.
SPEAKER_00: Um back to your point originally, you can't control the outcomes, right?
SPEAKER_00: That's not us.
SPEAKER_00: So I think our least, I would say, spiritual religious child is our daughter, the one that we went through the whole thing, the one we thought would probably be the most kind of rebellious, um, and he has acted that way different times, is probably the most uh thoughtful at this point.
SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's it's just unusual that as well.
SPEAKER_00: So no matter what you do, you can't control the outcome, but you make sure enough goes in, you know, so you you water your plant, you know, actually plant first, then you water.
SPEAKER_00: Your primary is of a summer.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it might not be the reaper.
SPEAKER_03: And you point out too with you know whatever environment they're in, whether in public school or private school or high school, you still need to be in charge, you know, and um the parental authority is is primary, even in a public school setting, and you can control it.
SPEAKER_06: Um having said that, um all your children, so it's taking me a little while for all your children are different.
SPEAKER_06: I know that up here, but they're not all going to be following Christ or accepting him as their savior if they do at the same time, and that's gonna happen throughout your whole lifetime.
SPEAKER_06: So there's gonna be some hot discussions, some uncomfortable situations, you know, as you go along.
SPEAKER_06: And then the other part that John and I were talking about, uh, you know, as they're adults, I'm still praying, but return to God if you're a prodigal.
SPEAKER_06: If you went to college and all of a sudden you partied and walked away, um, but when you pray that your kid knows Christ, it never fully dawned on me that um, even though you've gone through the valley and you know Christ, uh, if they go through the valley, you're going with them again.
SPEAKER_06: It never dawned on me.
SPEAKER_06: So um get ready.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, get ready, you're gonna be cool.
SPEAKER_03: Your oldest son was four years in college, and uh I don't think he ever went to church.
SPEAKER_03: It was like, Tim, you're in a fraternity, you know, church has girls.
SPEAKER_03: You know, if you want to meet some girls, that's a good place to meet girls.
SPEAKER_03: And if you go to church, there's somebody's gonna invite you for dinner afterwards, probably.
SPEAKER_03: So there's food.
SPEAKER_03: And by the way, there's a church next door to the fraternity house.
SPEAKER_03: But uh it was maybe one of those tips.
SPEAKER_03: Um, but you also brought up, you know, children are different, so I thought this might be helpful too.
SPEAKER_03: Um this talks a little bit about understanding your children's well, thank you for the segue, you know.
SPEAKER_03: Um understanding your children's um they call them spiritual pathways in this.
SPEAKER_03: So it's a little bit of personality driven, but and it's a little bit of education driven, but it it kind of in seven traits.
unknown: Um you've got yours later, I guess.
SPEAKER_03: Um understanding the different traits of your children, um, and and I'm not gonna go through all this here, but um understanding what your um your child's spiritual pathway be may be, and it's gonna be different for each kid.
SPEAKER_03: You know, they talk about a traditionalist and an activist or more of a nature person, you know.
SPEAKER_03: So you're gonna be able to speak about the word in different ways for your children based on what their spiritual pathway is.
SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_03: Um so, for example, if somebody's more of a you know what he classifies as a naturist, well you're gonna when you rise up, you're gonna go out and look at stars, or you're gonna talk about how wonderful creation is and what God's um has made himself apparent, uh obvious actually in his nature, in what we see in creation.
SPEAKER_03: Um someone else might be more interested in, you know, I need to do daily bride time, you know, daily point time at seven in the morning.
SPEAKER_03: That might be year for travels.
SPEAKER_03: Kind of spiritual love language.
SPEAKER_03: Um of them might be more accurate, you know.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, we gotta we're gonna go work on the soup kitchen here or something where they live out their faith.
SPEAKER_03: So kind of discover what your children respond to.
SPEAKER_03: You know, use all you know, seven methods, yeah, and we need to do all these, but kind of look for the response of your child to see which one you're responding to, and then you can continue to use that.
SPEAKER_03: So great, thank you.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, for thought here.
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, we we had oh no, we shouldn't have someone in your had two children who were alike.
SPEAKER_00: Or three-year-old different.
SPEAKER_03: Your three-year-old different, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna give your kids alike?
SPEAKER_03: Um, they're different, they're different.
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so we you know, I was not aware of this kind of thinking, but uh we we pretty much did all that, and you know, hopefully some of it stopped with certain kids, and we see them doing that in their their kids' lives as well.
SPEAKER_03: So that really works well.
SPEAKER_03: So that's teach your children.
SPEAKER_03: So that's intentional sharing a faith in doctrine.
SPEAKER_03: Um, so that's you know, we we need to be instructing them.
SPEAKER_03: You know, kids kids are basically you know like wash fed skulls full of much, and you know, you've got if you don't fill it, then somebody else will.
SPEAKER_03: And uh I guess another uh another little tool I uh like to um and this can be done from the very beginning of our lives too.
SPEAKER_03: Um it's called the wordless book.
SPEAKER_03: Anybody ever heard of the wordless book?
SPEAKER_03: Oh no, is that a new thing?
SPEAKER_03: Um it's uh just a tool.
SPEAKER_03: I I got this off the child evangelism fellowship uh website.
SPEAKER_03: Uh you might have to share.
SPEAKER_03: Um instructions for it, but this can be used at any stage in their life.
SPEAKER_03: I I cut mine up a little bit, but you can you can make these little books if you turn to like the uh uh towards the end of the book, second half, it's nothing but colors.
SPEAKER_03: So you can make a little book looks like on your own with just the colors, starts with a gold, and gold is a reminder of who God is, God is pure, God is holy, and um you know gold is the gold standard, God is beyond all in purity.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then the black is um our sin.
SPEAKER_03: When we look at ourselves comparatively, we are sinful and we don't measure up to God's standards.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then when we turn to red, we see, well, you know, somebody paid the price for our sin.
SPEAKER_03: That's Christ, and he paid for us with his blood so that we can be we can be freed of that that blackness.
SPEAKER_03: The white is Christ makes it.
SPEAKER_03: Pure before a holy God.
SPEAKER_03: So through the blood of Christ, we can put on and be clothed in righteousness.
SPEAKER_03: Finally, and then there's green, and you know, Christ takes us from that point and he grows us.
SPEAKER_03: And he that's taxification process, and he brings us more to make him more like Him.
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, a one-year-old or a two-year-old can understand the colors and the concepts.
SPEAKER_03: When they're they're two or three, well, they can go a little bit more in depth.
unknown: He can explain a little bit more.
unknown: By the time they're four or five, they could be reading it to you.
SPEAKER_03: And this grows with them, you know, when they're 17 and 18, things get a little bit more intense, you know, but the same colors can be used.
SPEAKER_03: So it's a great little tool to help us explain.
SPEAKER_03: And then guess what?
SPEAKER_03: You know, they carry that little book to school.
SPEAKER_03: Kid says, Oh, what's that?
SPEAKER_03: What do you got?
SPEAKER_03: Colors on your well, now they can tell somebody else about it.
unknown: And it's just a great little device.
SPEAKER_03: So I would encourage you to kind of you know work this out for yourselves and work on it and try it on your kids.
SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, maybe uh you know Susanna, give it to Katie, you can use it for us, children's child sometimes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but the reason I like it is it can grow with your child, you can continue to use that.
SPEAKER_03: Um we would write read the little Bible stories.
SPEAKER_03: Um they always like the one about Jesus in the boat and the storm coming.
SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, by the time they were three, you know, it says, and Jesus stood up in the boat, and they go, shh, you know, and they they they knew it that well, the story, because they've been doing it for so they can they can learn.
SPEAKER_03: So I think that's a great tool.
SPEAKER_03: But it helps you really elaborate on sharing that faith with them.
SPEAKER_03: So I encourage that as well.
SPEAKER_03: Um so that's teaching you some uh at home, talking about cheap prices.
SPEAKER_03: So this is what I call living your faith out loud.
SPEAKER_03: So this concluded primarily telling your story, letting them see how you're growing in faith.
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, oh I learned something in my quiet time this morning.
SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, before I was this how I came to faith in Christ.
SPEAKER_03: Have you guys ever shared your story with your kids, how they came to faith?
SPEAKER_03: How they how they responded, how old were they when throughout their lives, yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Okay, early.
SPEAKER_05: The deeper details of our sin in our relationship came when they were teenagers, so that they would know what consequences of sin are in your dating life.
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
SPEAKER_05: So sharing your scene.
SPEAKER_05: You didn't want to polish things over, you know, and I mean nowadays you all have even harder, you know, you're confronted with so much sexual sensual sin all around them that can be accessed now.
SPEAKER_05: You know, we've got to be real real with our kids when they're older, age appropriately, about our fallness, our sin, and how God rescues us from it.
SPEAKER_05: But there are consequences to pay.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Yes, in their hearts they know you're not perfect.
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: But it's nice that you admit it sometimes too.
SPEAKER_04: Like on the one hand, I don't want to be my kid's best friend.
SPEAKER_04: Not until they're about we're best friends now, which is great.
SPEAKER_04: But the goal wasn't to be the best friend when they're five and six, the goal is to be their parent, but we talked to them uh about our own failings.
SPEAKER_04: We we were transparent, age appropriate, right?
SPEAKER_04: But we were transparent, age appropriate, and I think by being that way, I think it created.
SPEAKER_04: I I can't speak for Jen, just speak for me and my relationship with my two boys.
SPEAKER_04: It created a safeness from their end, and as now we're older, we can talk about anything, and they are my best friends, which is so amazing to say that my two sons are my best friends.
unknown: And my other son calls me three times a week, you know, and talk tells me everything.
SPEAKER_05: They're in their they're in their 30s, everybody, so you have a long way.
SPEAKER_04: So I just want you to do that.
SPEAKER_04: But that's a great, amazing gift for you as parents of young, because you all have young children now, so you're not really doing in our world at all.
SPEAKER_04: But I think by being real and vulnerable and saying, Daddy, you just saw daddy say some something to mommy, you know, I was I was upset and I was angry, and I spoke with an angry tone.
SPEAKER_04: That was sin.
SPEAKER_04: And that was that was wrong, you know.
SPEAKER_04: That hurt God's feelings, that you know, it hurt your mommy's feelings, and I was wrong to do that.
SPEAKER_04: I asked mommy to forgive me, but will you forgive me too?
SPEAKER_04: You know, just being that modeling that kind of repentance in front of them early, early.
SPEAKER_04: We should have done more of that actually.
SPEAKER_04: It's good.
SPEAKER_04: We were stuck back then.
SPEAKER_05: You know, I think it's repentance wasn't talked about a lot.
SPEAKER_03: Some of the some of the girls that were speaking in, I think Athena Pierce in your movie were dads were very imperfect.
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03: They they never admitted it anyway.
SPEAKER_03: Right, they were keeping it.
SPEAKER_03: They saw the hypocrisy when you're admitting it, then says, Yes, I am a hypocrite.
SPEAKER_04: But just to tell you, as you pour into your kids now, and you do this work, and you don't just isolate and separate yourself from your family because you're just worn out, had a rough day at work, and you just can't deal with it.
SPEAKER_04: If you dig in, there will be a payoff down the road for you that will be beautiful.
SPEAKER_04: God willing, it will be beautiful, and it will be one of the things you cherish most in your life.
SPEAKER_04: So I encourage you, do the hard work.
SPEAKER_04: Do the hard work.
SPEAKER_04: When you do, you know, and and God willing.
SPEAKER_04: We're trying to say God willing, God willing.
SPEAKER_05: Like you're saying, there's prodigal, we're both our sons have prodigal years, so let's not gloss that over either.
SPEAKER_03: So I've said it before, I've I say it often that um you know grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your teenager.
SPEAKER_05: Amen.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, um now we're walking along the road, right?
SPEAKER_03: Um walking along the road.
SPEAKER_03: Um I've interpreted that as living out your faith in public.
SPEAKER_03: Um we talked a little bit about that, but also in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: So how do you live out, how have you lived out your faith in the marketplace?
SPEAKER_06: If if you're for, I mean, John taught our kids at a young age to be responsible with their finances.
SPEAKER_06: So if you're considering marketplace bad, um he he instructed them.
SPEAKER_06: Our kids um well my friends don't have to pay for their cell phone, or they don't have to, you know, everybody's everybody else's parents are always way cooler than you are.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Because you've set up some true.
SPEAKER_06: Um but I think like you said, as it goes forward, I mean, they all they all have random jobs, like in junior high, high school, where they were contributing to stuff and part of the family, and they'd have to mow.
SPEAKER_06: And if if they broke something, like I specifically remember our oldest had his um best buddy Connor over, and we had an acre and a half in a farm community in town.
SPEAKER_06: So the kids would show up to play baseball in the side yard, and they'd say words and then come in the house and you're like, Oh, hi Mrs.
SPEAKER_06: Crackman.
SPEAKER_06: I'm like, uh-I heard you.
SPEAKER_06: Um, but anyway, kind of.
SPEAKER_03: But then did they see, you know, in your working life, did they see you apply Christ in your working life?
SPEAKER_06: Oh, a professional I was gonna say when they break something, he would have her and fix it.
SPEAKER_06: That's taught to them, like canner, broken the gates, lands.
SPEAKER_06: That's right.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: How do you change a while you're on the road?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there's multiple aspects too.
SPEAKER_00: So one is uh I guess how you approach your job and profession.
SPEAKER_00: So they saw me uh work too hard, but they also saw me, you know, being honest about my work and um uh with my employers and that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that's the marketplace and how you deal with other people in uh financial and business situations as well.
SPEAKER_00: So for example, if I you know you order something at the restaurant and they didn't charge you for it.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: You know, you might be there, I just let it go.
SPEAKER_00: But I always like to point it out that oh, I want to be honest in all my dealings, and that goes both ways, you know.
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
SPEAKER_00: If they ever charge me, uncharged me, I want to make sure we're we're fair with that too.
SPEAKER_00: So I think they got a lot of uh hopefully they'll have fair-mindedness, we're gonna be the same way about the same thing, but uh fair-mindedness with interactions with others, make sure it's an honest transaction, you're not trying to be deceptive.
SPEAKER_00: And um, I think they want that.
SPEAKER_03: And and have you talk about your work at home is yeah, important time too.
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I I would say also helping God understand that uh all work is your your vocation is an advocation as well, you know.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, your matter what God has sweeping streets or or uh you know having open brains, it's um you would have to distinguish anything obviously before between immoral work and that, but um just giving them a good sense of work, I think, as well as that.
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to get brain surgery, you've put good thoughts in somebody's head.
SPEAKER_00: Whatever you do, do it in the sense of the Lord.
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: That's great.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you you talk to them when you lie down.
SPEAKER_03: So that's uh a great opportunity for sharing prayer and and sharing at that time.
SPEAKER_03: You know, we've talked about that before.
SPEAKER_03: Bad time is you know, things are a bit more calm, a little more tired, and some of the energy is gone, but they so they're a little bit more respective, receptive to talk about spiritual things.
SPEAKER_03: How was your day and how did God show himself with you today?
SPEAKER_05: Does that mean that parents are lying down though?
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's yeah.
SPEAKER_05: So the parents can lay down and do devotions.
SPEAKER_05: One can sleep while the other does.
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's scriptural.
SPEAKER_00: So I would uh I would often uh read to the kids, say a prayer, sing a song.
SPEAKER_00: One time Brenda went in to our son's room because she's about two.
SPEAKER_00: He said, Shh, daddy's asleep.
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it'll say those books will get me.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So you know, so but uh but still, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you recognize I was with my daughters too you know, but it was a song I would sing uh for her as well.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: We talked as a German prayer.
SPEAKER_03: Oh, you did?
SPEAKER_03: And uh was it in German?
SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you just bin ich zu schließtimm zu.
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
SPEAKER_03: But then after a while, then you can explain what that means.
SPEAKER_03: Well, it makes sense for this.
SPEAKER_03: So just rogue prayers can be good, but if you explain them as well.
SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_03: And and then as they get older, you know, they're gonna ask deeper questions.
SPEAKER_03: You know, um, my my son compiled a list of his nine-year-old's questions, and these are deep questions.
SPEAKER_03: You know, so it's like I'll have to get back to you on that, so I'm just putting some resource on it.
SPEAKER_03: But you know, different age you're gonna be asking different questions, you know, as I as they hit that, you know, nine, ten, eleven uh abstract concepts start coming into play.
SPEAKER_03: And then of course later on, you know, it's more deeper questions.
SPEAKER_03: Um just uh sort of a quick note here on you know making time to talk about your faith.
SPEAKER_03: Um when you're in the car, you got a captive audience, so it's a great time to do it.
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes putting a sermon on the radio and forcing them to listen, maybe they'll hear something.
SPEAKER_03: What did he mean by that?
SPEAKER_03: You know, uh when they're sick, it's a great time to make another again, another captive audience, but they may be you know open to thinking about all things might be time.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, why don't you pray?
SPEAKER_03: Why don't you read a scripture or something like that?
SPEAKER_03: Um we always said that um if you can't sleep, start reading the Bible.
SPEAKER_03: Reading the Bible.
SPEAKER_03: Um Bad Time, we talk about time.
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I always went with our grandkids and their kids, you know, what's the best part of your day?
SPEAKER_03: Well, let's thank Jesus for that.
SPEAKER_03: You know, I can get more detailed as you go.
SPEAKER_03: Um vacation time, you got long trips, so you can talk about your faith.
SPEAKER_03: But you know, I think we even suggest that maybe you know, it's a time to do maybe a little service project while you're you're gone, or uh have a family devotional in the morning before you set out, you know, you know, a little bit late in the normal routine.
SPEAKER_03: You can do things that help them understand their faith better.
SPEAKER_03: Um, one-on-one time that's you know intentionally, either date-night, and then we talk about this later on, but date-night or just to walk, you know, hey, let's go for a walk together, just you and me.
SPEAKER_03: And sometimes you know, just walking the conversation actually flows to things of God.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: I think even um modeling prayer, like you said, uh, because older generations would do this, and but to actually say it out loud.
SPEAKER_06: And then when our kids were young, uh John and I started praying at the table, and we would hold hands and we would do like freeform prayer, like, you know, God, thank you for the baseball game today.
SPEAKER_06: Um, we appreciate you getting us there safely, and it was a good, you know, whatever it was, you're modeling for them, and then you can also thank God for who he is, all his characteristics.
SPEAKER_06: Thank you for being the protector, thank you for um being our father and walking with us, model and then confess something.
SPEAKER_06: And then what we found is we get together with our parents now that they're older, because we did that when they were younger.
SPEAKER_06: Our parents are more open to uh praying out loud and and saying it.
SPEAKER_06: In fact, sometimes um you know, John or my dad, or they'll say, Um, okay, Kate, will you lead us in prayer today?
SPEAKER_06: Like they automatically say one of the kids, and it's more of a comfort zone because we've practiced it.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely praying out loud.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: If you have a big family, you can even do what we call praying Costa Rican style.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's where everybody prays out loud at the same time.
SPEAKER_03: Which is an interesting experience.
unknown: But speaking in tongues, basically.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
unknown: You can figure that out.
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's how you do, you know, a long prayer in a short period of time.
SPEAKER_03: Um, this and you touched a little bit on this, you know, in the morning when you rise up, it says, you know, teach them when you walk along the house, when you lie down, when you rise up.
SPEAKER_03: So in the morning, do they see you do a quiet time?
SPEAKER_03: Um, particularly like if you're homeschooling or before the kids go to school, are they having a quiet time?
SPEAKER_03: You know, okay, we need to have 15 minutes of quiet time.
SPEAKER_03: So this is what I'm gonna do.
SPEAKER_03: Here's maybe you can do this, or at least there's a discipline of them having a quiet time, even if they're just reading the book while you study.
SPEAKER_05: We were just talking about praying in the car, you know, all the time with the kids.
SPEAKER_05: Like you said, captive audience.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but she was good in the morning.
SPEAKER_04: I think that will be like she'd always she'd always pray for them every morning and drive them to pray for them, and she would pray for them every day in the morning.
SPEAKER_04: And they hear she was real good about that.
SPEAKER_03: But if you're a driver, keep your eyes open.
SPEAKER_06: Right.
SPEAKER_06: You know, and uh silly things like if your kids tactile or visual or whatever, for me, like I have a white ribbon tied around one of my kitchen cupboard doors, and that was to remind me to pray for a family member.
SPEAKER_06: So you could tie something, you could tape it to the microwave if you had your top three things you were praying about, so the kids will see it and be like, hey, or what's that?
SPEAKER_06: Or what are we praying about this week?
SPEAKER_06: So if you're a visual or tactile person, there are different ways to do it too.
SPEAKER_06: Or if you're doing laundry, dear God, please wash wear sins.
SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06: Like tie into what you're doing.
SPEAKER_06: I love that.
SPEAKER_06: That's great.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you know, that kind of ties into the sign of your hands, you know, like what you're doing.
SPEAKER_03: Put scripture verses on the refrigerator, and you know so your your house should model.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Um, on your doorposts.
SPEAKER_03: So I interpret that as sharing with your neighbors.
SPEAKER_03: Do your neighbors know that you're believers?
SPEAKER_03: Do you do you and that's something you can you know train your kids on as well?
SPEAKER_03: You know, this is how we behave even with our neighbors.
SPEAKER_03: Um do your neighbors know that you're believers.
SPEAKER_05: Our little six-year-old grandson yesterday would have said, I shared the gospel at Rhesus last week.
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, oh, thank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_05: He's already an evangelist.
SPEAKER_05: He's not been just going like this.
SPEAKER_05: I was I shared the gospel at Recess.
SPEAKER_05: He's in kindergarten.
SPEAKER_05: So I'm like, thank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_05: They're in a really great public school album.
SPEAKER_04: Somebody asked, he wanted to, he was right, he wrote down John 3, 16.
SPEAKER_05: And he said, for Paul, oh, he goes, Nana, can you find me a good verse from uh Paul?
SPEAKER_05: So I'm like, they're already, thank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_05: That we already see they are doing so much better with that putting the word of God in their kids' hearts than we were.
SPEAKER_03: He would love the wordless book.
SPEAKER_03: The what?
SPEAKER_03: The wordless book.
SPEAKER_05: You can see that yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05: I think they've seen that.
SPEAKER_05: There are three VBSs this summer, too.
SPEAKER_05: Are you all accessing that this year, everybody?
SPEAKER_05: Good.
SPEAKER_05: Those are wonderful.
unknown: Go VBS.
unknown: Yeah, VBSs are so great.
unknown: There are three.
SPEAKER_03: And you know, it doesn't really try to figure out how to fit that into our list, but you know, being around other Christian kids.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, realizing that they're not alone out on the frontier all by themselves.
SPEAKER_03: So and then on your gates, and that I interpreted as you know your public witness.
SPEAKER_03: You know, do strangers know your believers?
SPEAKER_03: How would they know your belief?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: We create the restaurant together.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's important.
SPEAKER_06: John and I used to have um, anyway, after all the stuff when we were young and there was a lot of medical, we had uh gotha license plate, and a mom came up to me and she's like, Why'd your license plate say a gate?
SPEAKER_06: And I'm like, Oh, it's agape.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, too.
unknown: But anyway, that was elated.
SPEAKER_06: And then his license plate used to say, oh god, oh W E God.
SPEAKER_06: Oh I mean, there are all sorts of ways to just like slip in opening box.
SPEAKER_05: That's great.
SPEAKER_02: That's great.
SPEAKER_05: That's dangerous too on a car.
SPEAKER_05: You really have to drive right.
SPEAKER_03: Well, that's it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Well, you always have to drive right.
SPEAKER_05: We should anyway.
SPEAKER_04: Maybe sitting next to them at church.
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think the best way to teach your kids that is to have them see you share the gospel.
SPEAKER_04: Right.
SPEAKER_04: Like you be open about it in the public square and Walmart and at the restaurant and wherever you go, and you engage people and you have conversations and you share the gospel and they watch you do it.
SPEAKER_03: And then all of a sudden they're doing it.
unknown: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: You know, and and I think you have to always be ready for that point where they say, I want to pray to accept Jesus, you know.
SPEAKER_03: So that's yeah, that should be part of your conversation.
SPEAKER_03: Um we unfortunate our oldest boy, when he was seven, I'm not sure where he heard it, but he was that age, maybe maybe it was church.
SPEAKER_03: Um said, Daddy, I want to at nighttime, you know, I heard time, he says, you know, I want to accept Jesus.
SPEAKER_03: So we prayed together.
SPEAKER_03: I believe that's when the Holy Spirit entered into his life.
SPEAKER_03: It just took a little while to manifest.
SPEAKER_03: But uh then a few weeks later, I think David, his younger brother, was hearing this, and and he was in the lower bonket while this was going on.
SPEAKER_03: So he prayed as well.
SPEAKER_03: Uh our old our youngest son, I think uh we never had that moment, but I think it was in his teenage years at one of the uh youth retreats where God really grabbed.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you don't always have that opportunity, but be ready for it.
SPEAKER_03: You know.
SPEAKER_03: I'll just say our goal is not you know if there's an opportunity to reap.
SPEAKER_03: I'm saying don't don't read it's model for go the reaping part.
SPEAKER_04: It's something you model.
SPEAKER_04: Our 35 year old, he's very bold about his, he'll just talk to you and he'll both of them, but like David, he's sharing his faith all the time, and so the kids are seeing.
SPEAKER_04: They meet people and he's talking about Jesus.
SPEAKER_04: Do you know Jesus?
SPEAKER_04: I mean, he is very bold, on fire, sharing his faith, and the kids see that, and then now the six-year-old, oh, I shared the gospel on the playground.
SPEAKER_04: Well, how did he know to do that?
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he saw his daddy do it.
SPEAKER_04: Your daddy is modeling to the six-year-old how to live and how we navigate with other people and how we relate and what the gospel means and how it why I'm here.
SPEAKER_04: So I think that's important.
SPEAKER_04: I know that a lot of us sometimes our personalities that might be difficult for us to be bold like that, but I mean I think it's there's good reason, biblical reason to do that.
SPEAKER_04: I think we got, and sometimes we just gotta get out of that uh and just let them see us living out Christianity and doing it.
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
SPEAKER_06: I'm gonna flip it real quick too.
SPEAKER_06: Our second son was a rebel and he came to Christ in high school, and so he went from being this to church hopping, and the siblings didn't understand what happened.
SPEAKER_06: So Ben actually helped probably school John and I.
SPEAKER_06: So there's a flip.
SPEAKER_06: No, that happened.
SPEAKER_06: He went into biblical and the theological.
SPEAKER_06: So when your kid knows Christ and is standing on the college campus with a sign saying, Can I pray with you?
SPEAKER_06: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_06: And you're like, yeah, anyway, your kids be receptive because your kids might actually outgrow the teacher.
SPEAKER_06: Amen.
SPEAKER_03: That's our goal, right?
SPEAKER_03: One of the one of the things they can talk about here, I would share with um, you know, helping them, I think, really understand what grace is all about.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so as they're capable, you know, in their their development, so okay, well, how do we know what we're saying?
SPEAKER_03: How do we, you know, um, you know, why did Jesus die on the cross?
SPEAKER_03: Um what's our assurance of salvation you know, if if we died and went to why should we go to heaven?
SPEAKER_03: You know, having that understanding and being able to explain that too.
SPEAKER_03: Because if they're saying, well, that's just because I I did good things today, well, there you go.
SPEAKER_03: You just now you know you need to work on helping them understand what race is.
SPEAKER_03: Maybe they're not there yet.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and again, that's you know, their suggestion here is that you know, in the early years, it's more about understanding who God is, respect of God, and um, you know, that he makes promises, that he's reliable, that he's good.
SPEAKER_03: Um, later on, you know, as they get uh their suggestion here in the early elementary years, you can start talking about God's goodness, um, you know, what is man in relation to God, truth, things like that.
SPEAKER_03: And then as the concepts get a little bit older, as you know, well, now you can talk about grace, middle school, now you've got to talk about you know, grace plus trusting the Lord with your life.
SPEAKER_03: And you know, they're starting to think about a little bit of independence now, so reliance on God.
SPEAKER_03: And of course, by the time they're in high school, now you can talk about you know putting your faith in God to trust Him for your future, and and making all the kind of heavy decisions they they have to make in high school.
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, keep those concepts of God going, simple at the beginning and complex as they're able to, and they'll they'll they'll lead your life.
SPEAKER_03: So can I just if you don't subscribe, do it.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, uh topics, books, movies, conversations to have with your kids, and should you need family counseling later, you can contact them for Christian counseling at ADD, marital, any of it.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so anyway, they also have subscription magazines, minimal donation for preschoolers, middle schoolers, and teens.
SPEAKER_03: So I think there's a Ranger Mick is the real young one, and I forget the next one.
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, we all want to focus on the family, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: That's great.
SPEAKER_03: They get a magazine in their name every every month.
SPEAKER_03: They love it.
SPEAKER_03: But it's got age appropriate concepts and games and stories and things like that.
SPEAKER_05: Do you all know about focus on the family?
SPEAKER_05: You heard about from your parents, I'm sure, right?
SPEAKER_05: Such a great response.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, check it out.
SPEAKER_05: You love it.
SPEAKER_05: You guys on the million others too now.
SPEAKER_03: Um okay, we're out of time.
SPEAKER_03: I was gonna put Suzanne on the spot.
SPEAKER_05: Let's do it, it's not let's go over.
SPEAKER_03: Just the dynamic of being, quote, in the profession of Christianity, how do the you know, how do you model that in a real way, you know, for the kids and you know preachers' kids have it, I think, a little it's a little trickier walk than others.
SPEAKER_01: Um so while I'm I'm married to our pastor, I'm merely a member like the rest of everyone else here, and I'm also just a mom like some of us parents here.
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't educated at the theology school kids educated.
SPEAKER_01: My background is very different, um schooling-wise, but we do family devotions together, we work on uh we're always reading biblical stories to them, um we are catechizing them in their various levels.
SPEAKER_01: Um and for school, we've tried to start topical studies, so places or areas where they struggle.
SPEAKER_01: We try to focus more on those, and then we let all of you be them.
SPEAKER_01: Your wisdom.
SPEAKER_01: Um, or you try to put them in places where they're with people that are um badly and feeding and are going to pour into them.
unknown: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
unknown: That's great.
SPEAKER_03: They have to say that professionally he needs to study the Bible, but he also needs to do it personally.
unknown: He lives it, you know, just a living faith.
unknown: So okay, well let's close in prayer.
SPEAKER_03: I can see our signals are here.
SPEAKER_03: You know, the class is done, so we should wrap it up too.
SPEAKER_03: Lord God, I just pray for each of our families in our church as they're raising up children in the faith, and it's such an exciting time have a responsibility, but your your yoke is light, and um uh we we need to pay attention, but we know that you're guiding us that the spiritual formation is of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_03: Um help us to be good guys and uh good examples, uh having our relationship first with you, and uh children can see that all of them.
SPEAKER_03: So we pray that that would take place.
SPEAKER_03: Help us with our conversations with our kids, help us always to be uh directing them towards the source of life and the source of goodness and and the source of grace and that is you.
SPEAKER_03: And we pray for that this this coming week.
unknown: Jesus' name.
unknown: Amen.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, next week.
unknown: Fun nights and take that big paper.
SPEAKER_03: Just a list of ideas, yeah.
unknown: Yeah, good idea.