[Sunday School] Holy Spirit 11

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Okay, so I have like running out of time in our class, and so who knows what's gonna happen. Um this is kind of fine. So though maybe the last two classes here, I was thinking, what's our relationship to the Holy Spirit, with the Holy Spirit, and kind of I don't know, maybe we'll back into it a little bit by looking at some of the negative commands that we've been given. So the first one we'll look at is 1 Thessalonian, and the verse we'll be looking at is 519, but I'll read the um or is this the right I think I got this right? Oh yeah, got it. Um so we'll start at 12, so it's kind of the final instruction, it's the benediction of the book. We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and over you and the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves, and we urge you, brothers, admonish the idle. Encourage the faint-hearted, help the weak, be patient with them all. See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone. Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. Do not quench the spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but test everything, hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil. Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you as faithful, he will surely do it. Alright, so that's one verse. And we'll look quickly at the Ephesians verse. And there's um so the kind of there's a lot of command type language stuff we ought to be doing, but one of them was to not quench the spirit. So and then Ephesians 4 13, and I'll just pull some out. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. And then we'll probably come back to the Thessalonians passage because there's a point there we should make, I think, before we're moving on. So we have these two don'ts. Don't quench the spirit, don't grieve the spirit. Okay. Um quench is kind of a weird word, although I don't know in English if there's a better word. There might be, but I did some research on that and tried to get a sense of what the idea there was. And a lot of people seem to think of maybe a slightly better word might be resist. So do not resist the spirit, but do you know don't be in opposition to the spirit. There's kind of it's not like the spirit is a quenchable kind of thing in a certain way, so it's weird to say don't quench it because you can't really overcome God. You can't stop what God is doing, and so quench is kind of a weird, but we can resist God, we can be sinful, right? Basically, I can oppose God in my rebellion and sin. So that's a thing that I can do. Um but that does raise an interesting question, and what I wanted to point to here, and we can talk about this more, but um sometimes we worry, or can worry, or some people worry, or have been taught different things about this question of can I lose my salvation? Can I lose the spirit or something like that? And that's not in this tradition, not probably a question that comes up a whole lot, but I think it's worth diving back in real quick to just Paul kind of here in Thessalonians. So now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. And this is an important point here, just to kind of reassure us. The answer is no, we're not gonna lose the spirit, we're not gonna lose our salvation. He who calls you is faithful, he will surely do it. He who calls you is faithful, he will surely do it. Okay? May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. He is faithful and he will surely do it. So just I think we can talk about it more, but just as a reassurance for all of us, if you ever have that kind of question or doubt, first I would urge you to talk to people, but work out your salvation. I mean, I don't think it's um, but then just be encouraged and reminded that ultimately salvation belongs to the Lord and God is faithful and he will finish the job that he's started. So if you have placed your faith in Christ and have established, then God has called you his through his work, um, God's gonna finish what he's done. So it doesn't mean we don't have periods of doubt sometimes, or we don't kind of wonder where God is, or maybe we don't um feel very excited about being Christian sometimes, or whatever emotionally might be going on. God is faithful and he will finish the job.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Doesn't that kind of uh really point to people that uh believed in salvation by works because they never have that peace and comfort to realize that that salvation is firm, it's in Christ, and it can never fall away. I mean, you're you're there. But if you're thinking that I've got to be good enough to work my way into heaven, you know, that just destroys any peace that you could ever have.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

That's right, I think. If you're stuck in that thought of I've got to be good enough, right? Like uh, oh I'm struggling with sin again or whatever thing, you know, and that undermines the message of the gospel, which is that it's not by our work, but it's by the work of Christ being applied to us through the Holy Spirit. Christ has done all the work. And he has saved us by his work too.

SPEAKER_11 7:13

Um I guess I'm just concerned that we're being careful and and distinguishing between our intellectual, our intellectual ascent to intellectually we know that we're saved, and we know that we're by his spirit, we know. I say intellectually because although it's by his spirit, although we know that his spirit speaks with our spirit, and we're we know that we're saved because his spirit speaks with our spirit, right? Um in our tradition, we tend to think that because we know that, because we intellectually know that, we can't lose our salvation. Functionally, in reality, we have all kinds of personalities. And somebody could be a very, a very um volatile personality, and while they may know they're saved, they can still go through valleys of serious death, and that doesn't mean that they're not a Christian, right? Right. And yet, on the other hand, there's gonna be people that like um ago, people that are um their reality tells them that they're only saved by their words, right? Well, they might be, they might think that they're safe because they're they're emotionally very stable. They're very stable person emotionally. So they're not bothered at all by the fact that their words say them. And they may be only secure in their salvation, or think they're secure in their salvation. So our personalities can very much um can very much trick us, either for the good or for the bad.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah. Well, let's read in Matthew. I think there's a good just a sobering thought. I don't have the position to look into anyone's heart here and tell you whether you're saved or not, and I don't think that's my job or my role. So Matthew 7, 21. Jesus says, Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. Okay? So I think this speaks to the point that you're making, Tim. We can have, or it's possible for a person to have a great deal of confidence in some false sense of assurance of their own salvation. You can have a false sense of assurance of your own salvation and not be in right standing with God on the basis of the work of Christ. It's also possible for a person, I think, to be in right standing with God on the basis of the work of Christ, but not to have a lot of understanding of what that even means, or to be in a period of doubt, maybe even serious doubt. Um yeah, I think all that's possible. So it's good, I, and just as you know, that scripture tells us elsewhere to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Yeah, that verse says work out, not work for. Right. There's a difference.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, it's a it's a great point. Yeah, we're not to work for our salvation, we're supposed to work out our salvation, try to.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

But fear and trembling are emotions. Feelings.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

And is it possible that we could put in this section from Jesus that if we believed all the doctrines of grace and believed the full and fall of faith, we still miss it?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Satan knows it all and it doesn't do a good for him. I mean, he he knows the gospel and he had any trouble for fear, doesn't it? So he has a possible, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah, so there's a maybe the distinction might be something like I could work out salvation as a doctrine, maybe even with fear and trembling, but it's different for me to work out just salvation and what the Bible says salvation is and how it works than it is to work out my salvation. And so I'm not sure if that was the point you're making, but there's this possibility, I think, that I can attain some intellectual understanding of what scripture means and kind of fit together these neat theological puzzles or whatever, and then have no personal and not be saved, I guess. Not have act I could have an understanding of sort of the doctrines and stuff without having saving faith. Which um, yeah. So I think these are the scripture, the scripture warns us of this kind of stuff, to to work out not just what salvation is, but what it is for me to be saved, right? And and again, I I don't have an insight into any of you, and I'm not saying anyone here isn't saved or something like that. I'm just saying there's warning in scripture.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Isn't that evidence of the distinction between somebody that has listened to the spirit and has been drawn through faith in Christ versus somebody who's resisted or quenched the spirit and said, no, I'm not going to do that, I'm gonna work my salvation. It's kind of an if either-or type situation where the spirit is what's missing.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah, it might be I'm not, yeah, I don't know exactly.

SPEAKER_07 13:24

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Every nitty-gritty detail that's right.

SPEAKER_07 13:27

And when we're getting philosophical constructs like that, I mean, scripture says that no man seeking, no man searching, all those types of things. So if we are seeking, we are searching, probably a reason that's being done. So there we're you know, once again, the word draws, the Greek heliku of forcibly compelled or dragged. I mean, it's you know, it's forcibly compelled. I always love that. You know, it's just we're we aren't usually going to generate generally start a search for something unless there's a reason to do so. And uh and if we're told we don't even desire to begin this search, and we're searching for probably a reason.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah, I talk I remember talking to one of my friends about this question a lot, and his view is kind of interesting. I I wouldn't I'll just put it out there as a thought is that if you're very seriously doubting your own salvation, um it's there's a sense in which it's unlikely the case for someone who doesn't have it. Like, why would you even be wondering about it if you um if you're in that state of like opposition to God that it tells us that we're in in our sinfulness, you know, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 14:40

Well, and you wouldn't have an emotion about anything that you don't innately care about. So when you get stuff like you know, searching an owl fearing tripling, I think that's just a moniker that hey, this person cares, there's something there, there's something that is compelling them, right? I think it I think it kind of goes with that. Anything you care about, you'll have some emotional response to at one point or another. I think.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yeah, I think that's good. All right, so uh we can move on a little bit. I just wanted to state very so we can reflect on it. One, we should reflect on our own salvation, make sure we're working out fear and trembling. There is a warning in scripture, kind of to what Tim's point was that we could feel a great deal of confidence that we're right with God and not be right with God. Um and I think we ought to be right with God and feel a lot of confidence that we are right with God, right? That's the best position to be in, and that's the position I want us to leave here in is to both be right with God on the basis of God's work and to be confident of that. Okay. So that I'm not trying to make people doubt or something like that, but just at the same time wanted to deal with that because I think it's worth dealing with. Now, let's move, but there I do think there are interesting Christian life questions of grieving the spirit and quenching the spirit, and these are things that we're told not to do. And so let's shift a little bit to not the question of salvation, but just the question of Christian living and what might that mean for me to quench the spirit or resist the spirit? Um what that might that mean for us as a church, as a body, the the let you know this is not addressed to Jeremy, it's addressed to a group of Christians, it's addressed to a church. So as we think about that as a body of members of Christ, what might that mean? Um what might it mean to grieve the spirit? And then we'll I think we'll switch to the Galatians 5 passage here in a second. Let's talk about those things for a few minutes, and then we're gonna talk about walking by the spirit, which is I think the thing that we're supposed to be doing. We're not supposed to grieve, we're not supposed to quench, we are supposed to live by and walk by the spirit. Let's talk about the negatives first for a few minutes, in just the Christian living kind of way. So I'm gonna just ask this at a experiential level, does anyone have any personal stories where they believe that this is true of their own behavior, that they have um quenched the spirit in some way or any sense of what does that mean? And maybe not, and that's okay if not, but just curious.

SPEAKER_06 17:21

I watch TV is Pentecostal. That's kind of like that, right? Wait, what? You watch TV. Watch TV or something like that. You remember that wrong? Something like that. I can't remember. When we was young, I'd say if you watch TV something the devil or something. I think.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

I think for me, um I think uh 2010 uh I um I got laid off. It was the second time in two years. I got laid off, and I went without a job for quite a while. And I I was in church and going through things, and I ended up just after a while. I mean, I prayed for a long time, a lot of people were praying for me, and I I got really mad at God. And I I felt abandoned, and um, it wasn't anything like that in church, but I I do remember one prayer to God. It was really I had an angry rant at God, basically, you've abandoned me, you've left me, you've forgotten me. And when when I think of grieving the spirit as opposed to it, and it's you know, I I feel I got an answer, which was no, you're wrong. And um, but um uh you know, and that's just still small voice where it comes, but uh, you know, I I think for me personally, like that, you know, in looking back, a lot of things a lot of things weren't right in me, and in some ways I I was leaving, I was I got kicked out of something I probably in the end shouldn't have had and didn't want it, and I was being set up for something I wouldn't have asked for and and was being more right for. And so that's you know, I think when I think of you know grieving the spirit, it's you know making the work even harder than I mean it's God's part. I don't think you can mess up and make God's work harder than Jonah just comes running from NOL, but um uh harder than it than it could be, you know.

SPEAKER_07 19:34

The former pastor here has said numerous times during different things that we are in a process of heresy and repentance. We're in a processful process of heresy and repentance. You know, Mike said that quite a few times through the years, I heard him. And I think, you know, just in my own personal life, when I'm in rebellion to the spirit, you know, usually it's when I'm in actively doing things I'm not supposed to be doing. So grieving, quenching, all those things. I know what I should be doing. I'm not doing it. You know, I'm in that process of heresy, and you know, it will take the spirit once again to bring me to a point of repentance. So many times it's a vicious process. You know, that this moment is good stuff. So I think it's just an enumeration of the cyclical nature of what we go through as a person in this fleshly suit that we got that's still corrupt, you know, uh battling incorruption. Until the day comes when we put on incorruption, that's the battle we're gonna keep fighting.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

That's good. Rick, did you have a?

SPEAKER_12 20:40

Anytime I ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit, I'm quenching the spirit. When I say, well, I know this is wrong, but I'm gonna do it anyway. I know this is the wrong thing to say, I know this is the wrong thing to eat, I know this is the wrong thing to look at, watch on my computer, screen. Whatever you fill in the blank. That's quenching the spirit. So we do it in our marriages, we do it, we do it. It's called sin, willful sin and disobedience. And that's quenching the spirit when we do that.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Alright.

SPEAKER_08 21:15

What about you said you mentioned food, does that include ice cream? Do you have diabetes actually?

SPEAKER_12 21:22

It depends on how you eat the ice cream. If I've got a half gallon of ice cream and I'm depressed, and I'm going through the whole half gallon, and I'm eating uh with ill and in an ill way, yeah. Because the spirit's saying, don't do this, don't do this. But I'm I'm feeding a need that the spirit wants to feed in me, and I'm looking to the food to meet that need, then yeah, I would be quenching the spirit, and I've done that.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_12 21:52

When I knew, I don't need to be doing this, but I do it.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Alright. So let's take that. It's a good thought. This is a segue to move to the walking by the spirit stuff. And let's, real quick, on the way there, let's go briefly to 1 Corinthians 12. At least in the English, again, I'm not a Greek scholar or something, but 12 2. You know that when you were pagans, this word I think is interesting, or this kind of this idea, you were led. 1 Corinthians 12, verse 2, really quick. You were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. Okay? Let's keep this idea of being led towards something in mind. However, you were led, you were led astray to mute idols. Okay? And we're going to contrast that with this idea of the spirit. We'll go to Galatians now, five. Said that passage which two pagans. Yeah, yeah, he says when you were pagans, you were led. Yeah, yeah. No, it's not two pagans. It's about he's talking about people who are no longer pagans. Right. Oh, okay. Yeah. Because before that, it's concerning spiritual gifts, brothers or brothers and sisters. So he's talking to brothers and sisters in Christ. He's saying, when you were pagans, you were led astray to mute idols. Okay? However you were led, you were led astray to mute idols. And so somehow the spiritual gift stuff, the life and the spirit stuff is he's kind of contrasting that with being led to mute idols. And the spirit definitely doesn't lead us to mute idols, it leads us to the living God. It leads us to glorify Christ. Okay, so Galatians 5. If I can find it. Alright. 516. I'll read the rest of the chapter here. But I say, walk by the spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the spirit, and the desires of the spirit are against the flesh. For these are opposed to each other to keep you from doing the things you want to do. And here's that kind of language again. But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, organs, and orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. And it goes on from there. But so Oh, maybe we should read a little bit more. There's some more stuff about the Spirit. Well, I'll just keep reading a little bit. Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to bur boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor, for each will have to bear his own load. One who is taught the word must share all good things to the one who teaches. Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that he all that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the spirit will from the spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up. So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are the household of faith. Okay. It's a long section of scripture. It's interesting, like many the as I go back and forth between a lot of these passages, just trying to understand it a little bit better. Paul talks a lot about doing good. There's this idea of doing good. And so sometimes I come away from this stuff thinking it's not that complicated. Like, if I have the opportunity to do something good and I don't, that's quenching the spirit. That's resisting what God has called me to do. Just do the thing that's good to do. Now it doesn't mean it's easy, but I do think it's maybe not so conceptually difficult to think, well, what are we being called to do here? What is it that we're after? But walking by the Spirit, being led by the Spirit. And okay, so let's ask this question. Has anyone ever, does anybody have any experiences where you just are really sure? Maybe you're wrong, but you're really sure that God is like, the spirit is working in you to do something, and we'll put it this way, that you wouldn't normally do. Like maybe you're in the grocery store. I don't know. Just some kind of that experience. So it kind of um just I don't know, like yesterday, I don't know what to make of it. I just I had one of my coworkers um retired a few years ago, and we had had some email conversations. Um we'd talked about faith, and he had told me before, he's like, I want to be a Christian, I just don't know how to do that, right? And so we emailed back and forth a while after he retired, and yesterday I was um just kind of out of the blue. I hadn't thought about him in a long time. I was like, man, I just wonder what how he's doing and how retirement is, and so I just felt really strongly that I needed to email him and just check and just see what was going on and just touch base, really, right? I don't know if that was just I don't know. I would if I had to guess, or if I had to, if someone pushed me on it, I would say I think that was the Lord prompting me to somehow brought that to mind just to reach out to that guy. Okay. And it was in the middle of not anything that had to do with emailing people. I think I was walking my dog, right? And I just it came to mind, you know. Um that kind of thing. Stuff. And I want the abnormal cases because those are maybe a little easier to think about at first. Does anyone have any cases like that kind of a thing? We're just like, I I think that the Lord was prompting me to whatever, pray for someone, make a phone call. I don't care what it is, just I want to hear this, hear that. Because I think it's encouraging sometimes to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

A while back, my son Cooper and I, we did karate together for several years. And one time um he was my son was in his kids' class, and I was waiting for the adult adult class in the main sensei. Sensei Schus is his name. He was in the office, he he oversaw the this karate school. He was I was uh up under, he was complaining to me about some problems he had in life, and I was like, man, this life even worth it. It's like the flags went up ding ding ding ding, it's time to share the gospel. And I I did. I was very, I had a fair amount of experience in sharing the gospel, and I was probably so dumbfounded that that he was saying these things to me, so when I was sharing it with him, I I got it all in, but I think in a very haphazard way. And but I think God just immediately just said, time to share the heart, time to share the gospel with this guy. He's sharing his guts, he's sharing his heart, share the gospel with him. So I did, I don't know what he did, did with it. Um but I've been praying for him since, and he's in God's hands.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah. Thank you. That's a good story.

SPEAKER_08 30:09

My uh best friend's dad was very influential to me because my best friend and I grew up next to each other and were raised together basically for 17 years. His dad always took us fishing and did fun things with us, and his dad came down with cancer and he was on his deathbed, and my best friend works in a hospital, and he called me to tell me his dad was on his way out pretty soon. So I was pretty, you know, disrupt because I loved his dad. And I thought, you know, I really should call Gary, my best friend, back and ask to speak to his dad to tell him how much I appreciate all he did for us. So I called back and um asked Gary if I could talk to his dad. He said, You're too late, and he just passed a couple minutes ago. So I think it's better not to second guess yourself. It would not have been a bad thing for me to tell him that I loved him and I appreciated all the great things that he did for his son and me. But I won't have that opportunity again until I see him again. So lesson learned.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Thanks for sharing this. Other story.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

I got married.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

It was very important to me that the person I this is my own personal experience. Uh it was very important to me that the person I married would be God's choice for me. I believe such things. And still do I have it forty.

unknown 32:05

Oh, forty-four and a half years.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

But they are doing so you know, four plus decades, you know, God has to show over and again that this was the way to say.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

The question is are uh stories that um where we sensed a leading from the spirit. And maybe the ones that are seem more clear to us. So I think sometimes I do things out of habit or other things, and they're good things to do, and maybe they're right things to do, right? Like hug my son and wife in the morning and tell them I love them or whatever, those are good things to do. But I wouldn't necessarily be like, I felt some prompting from the spirit to do that, because they're kind of things I might do regularly. So the project is something like we want to find cases. If I want to identify the spirit's leading and the spirit's voice, I need to start to find the cases where I believe that that's what's going on and the cases where I think it's not, and try to contrast them. So I can say, okay, that was a case where I was maybe not being led by the spirit or a case where I was. Because we want to start to discern the spirit's guidance, right? And so that's a bit of what this is. Like and then the other piece of it is I think as a especially the Corinthians past, like the gifting, the spirit is leading and moving his church, and it's easy to um in Western, at least for me, in Western culture, right, this idea of a supernatural whatever, like we don't live in a culture that's friendly to the idea of there being even such a thing as the Holy Spirit, right? Science. We need some kind of scientific explanation for stuff or or whatever. And as as a reading these texts, it's been impressed on me some that um it's important for like I need encouragement from other Christians of like, what is God doing in your life? You're not even a Christian in the first place unless the Holy Spirit has worked in your life, right? The Holy Spirit, that's the first kind of like big crazy thing that happens to us as Christians, is the Holy Spirit gets a hold of us and changes our hearts. That's awesome. That's the work of God, and it's amazing. And then the work of God through the Spirit in our life doesn't stop there, and I want to hear about it. I want to hear what God is doing in your life. I want to hear how God is leading you. I want to I want to know about it, and I want to be encouraged by it, and I want us to encourage each other by it, because otherwise we're kind of living these siloed life, and it may be hard for us to discern, hard to for us to be on the lookout for opportunities like that. Well, I can't do that. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 35:17

An inverse to that is there's been numerous times in my professional career where, because I've consulting work, where there's no work, and it's just it is what it is. The economy does things or whatever. And every time I've fretted and worried and started pursuing other employment, all those types of things, even you've heard me in the last few weeks, uh request prayer for that, you know, all I end up doing is fretting and worrying and the things. The moment when I stop thinking about it 1 million percent, usually when God operates in my life and makes them happen. So it's kind of a thing of not even quenching, but fully trusting the Holy Spirit. You know, from the inverse, it's just to do the things for you know, you know, so it's just, you know, so kind of the opposite side of that coin as well, for at least for me, you know. So just I just kind of shut myself up. Which I guess is a type of quenching the Holy Spirit, you know, and so we just just wrong, just shut up, let it go, stop thinking about it, stop worrying about it. You know, just just rest in God and his sovereignty and and let the spirit do what it's gonna do. So kind of kind of a opposite of that.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yeah, I can want to, I can try to do God's work for God. Maybe is one way to say what you're talking about, right? And I think that is a when I try to do God's work for God, that doesn't really get in God's way, per se. Like I can't really stop God from doing what he's gonna do. But I do think that is not doing the work that I'm called to do that God has set up. You know, Ephesians 2, there's good works. I was made for good works. God has made good works for me to do. I'm to do those works, and those works are not the work that God does, because God has his own work that he does. So, all right.

SPEAKER_07 36:59

But just looking for that, training yourself for discernment. I think that's really what you're looking at is how are we training ourselves to know when we are discerning and discerning correctly? And I think sometimes for me personally, the answer is to just shut my mind off, and that's that's part of my discerning as well. This is the with the situations where I just not need to do anything.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Yeah, just submit and wait on the Lord. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_12 37:23

And that that comes with time as you spend time with the Lord, as you begin to put your heart and your mind and your focus on the Lord, that praying without ceasing, which comes really with just time with God, where you do hear. I mean, God speaks clearly to us through his word, but God, the Holy Spirit will communicate to us. You know, I did not absolutely want to make a film for women who have a fatherhood. I'm just going, God, what are you talking about? But I was clearly, it was a clear communication. And I said, Why in the world would you have me do this? Shouldn't a woman be making this film? I mean, I I had so many, and the money that it takes, God, what I was just arguing with him. And he kept confirming, I've given you everything you need, just go do it. And so that was such a, and from the be from once I said, All right, alright, God, I'll do this. I don't understand it, but I'll do it. And every door just flung open all the way through the project to even now it's still going. And so that was God. I mean, that's confirmed. You know, I shaved my beard because we're number five, right, in America. And three other guys are shaving their beards because I said we reach number five, we're going to shave our beards. There's a bet I lost the boys. I'm glad I lost that bet. But God is faithful to his word, and uh, we recognize that voice as we are familiar. If my wife can say something to me, and it can have a little, she can say the words that are saying this, but she can say it in a way that, and I can understand, after being married 40 years, I know what she's saying, right? I can understand her. And so I think with God, the more time we spend with him, that does become easier. Uh hearing specific. That will get easier.

unknown 39:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Did you have an account for your own?

SPEAKER_09 39:37

I had something that happened. My mom passed away about four years ago. She she was a fabric hoarder. She had like 60 or so copy paper size boxes in her garage. Nice, nice, neatly organized, full of fabric. And once she got it, I was like, what am I gonna do with all this fabric? I I gave away some of it, but couldn't get rid of it. I still have 30 or 40 boxes left, couldn't get rid of it. And crazy, what should I do with all this? Because I felt I didn't want to just throw it away because I felt like it could be quite different use. And I hadn't sewed in years, so I don't even like to sew, but on Facebook this room kept popping up crafts for Operation Christmas Time. And it just kept popping up, and so I opened it and showed how you can make this dress for Operation Christmas test. I thought, well, I can use some of that fabric and I can make a dress for Operation Christmas Test. But I got one of the boxes of fabric and I started sewing, and I thought I can do this.

SPEAKER_08 40:44

You're still doing it.

SPEAKER_09 40:45

Yeah, two years later, I'll I have some other charity that I've been donating to, but I've made several hundred or at least a couple hundred garments for children and somebody. It keeps me going. I mean, this is definitely a bad thing because I wouldn't have wanted to do this at all.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

Yeah.

unknown 41:13

Let's just say the spare bedroom we have.

SPEAKER_09 41:15

It's not a bedroom anymore. It's a storage room for fabric.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Thanks for sharing that scratch.

SPEAKER_10 41:25

You know, how we we debate a lot of times with our own mind, you know, isn't that really saying that? Um back in my early years, in my twenties, um, we went to Street Witness in Montreal, and we had partners to go with us, and we're walking down one of the streets, and I felt like I would say, you know, there's a little girl around the corner I wanted to talk to. And I was like, ah, well, yeah, right, you know, streets are packed with people. It's like, yeah, of course there's gonna be a little girl. So it's just kind of, you know, you kind of ignore it, and then we walked around the corner and there she was. And uh we witnessed her, she got saved that day. And, you know, but it's just kind of how you blow it off, you know. Yeah, yeah, right, you know. That's just me. I'm just you know, but I think sometimes we need to listen to that little small voice. Pay attention.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Good. Great, that's a great story. Let's give a couple principles of how to listen. That Rick mentioned scripture. I let's go to, I'll read again in this Corinthians passage. I read something this week that was interesting. The spiritual gifts, chapter, 1 Corinthians 12. I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says Jesus is accursed. And one of the things I read suggested that Paul was responding directly to something that was happening in the Corinthian church, meaning people were claiming to be speaking in the tongues and to be being led and governed by the Spirit of God and saying things like Jesus is accursed. And Paul's like, well, you're out of your mind if you think the Holy Spirit was behind that. Because no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says Jesus is accursed. Okay? A story from a friend of mine, he was um in ministry, maybe an elders, I don't know, at his church, and one of the church members came to the church leadership and said, I had it, um, I don't know. Like, I don't know what the medium of community is. I think it might maybe a dream or something, but I feel like the Holy Spirit is telling me to leave my wife. Right? Wow. Okay, well that's we have God's word in the Bible. I don't think, you know, there's nothing crazy, there's nothing like the marriage was sort of not in the state where you might um not the kinds of transgressions or whatever where you might um you know, you know, be talking about divorce. There's no reason for divorce, so then this guy like had a dream or whatever it was, and he's like, well, that must be God telling me to leave my wife, right? The church is like, no, that is not the spirit of God. The spirit of God is not gonna be telling you to leave your wife. So on your point of like when we doubt, well, how do we discern, is this from the spirit? Well, if the if the thing that you're being told to do contradicts God's word, then I can tell you right now, it is not from the spirit. Okay?

SPEAKER_07 44:21

John Owen. John Owen. So we have the it's actually an extrapolation from a couple of paragraphs, but it's people quote it all the time where you know famous Puritan said no. If you have private revelations and they match scripture, they are needless. They're what? They're needless. If you're having private revelations and it matches scripture, why? You have the scripture. You already have the revelation. But if it doesn't, then it's false. So basically, he was like, in where we are today, there's probably not a lot of private revelation when we have the book. That was kind of the concept there. But even in the passage we read earlier, he said to test, you know, he said to test the uh test the things. So test the spirits uh, you know, uh it's in it's important.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

So and I like that story of there's gonna be a girl to share the gospel to because everything, what are we supposed to do? Go share the gospel. We've been told to do that already, right? So that's just um that's just a special prompting of like maybe God's saying this particular person I want you to share the gospel of.

SPEAKER_10 45:23

I think too with kids, you just kind of I don't know, but adults seem to we ignore kids, you know. It's like, yeah, well, I'm supposed to hear the you know, evangelize the adults. Right. No, God loves the children too, so sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Yeah. Good. Alright, so some principles. We have God's word. So maybe so here's one thing that you might do if you feel like you're being prompted by the Spirit and it doesn't seem clear to you that it lines up with Scripture. I would suggest don't do that thing. You know? Wait, test it out, look at Scripture, go talk to people and say, like, hey, you know, I really feel like God is leading me to whatever, but I need some help discerning. Is am I missing the boat here? Is Scripture opposed this in some way, you know? Um and if it's clear, like in the case of like I feel as a time I was in the grocery store and I was getting, I was there to get like one thing, and kind of in a hurry. And there's some guy there in the it's like in the cheese aisle or whatever, to pick up some like shredded cheese, I think. And just felt really strongly like talk to this guy, right? And I I didn't even like really go anywhere, I just talked to him for a few minutes and um and but it can't I came away feeling like at peace from that, right? Like that that was a good appropriate thing to have done. And there's nothing in scripture that would tell me don't talk to people, right? Right? Um, don't share a kind word with somebody, don't ask someone how they're doing, don't show I mean scripture all all over the place tells me to be kind to people. Um all right, anyway. So, does it align with scripture? And good. So it's a good conversation. Any other comments? We're kind of running toward the end of time here. I think we've got a few minutes left. And I know this is I don't want this to be messy, but I do think Christian living is not always easy. You know, it's not always clear. We all have to discern and we have to have wisdom, and it's not like I didn't get a letter, you know, I didn't uh have a burning bush experience, right? Like where God showed up in some thing and said, This is exactly what you're doing with your life, right? I'm not Jonah, I didn't say go to the people of Nineveh. Although there are things I've been commanded to do, and for me it's sort of discerning how do I do that, right? What does that look like for me in particular? And it's not always easy. Although sometimes I make it a lot harder than it should be, I think.

SPEAKER_05 47:59

Yeah, I don't know how many times I've said, Lord, what do you get me into? But that was always worked out. That seems to be my favorite prayer. Is what do you get me into?

SPEAKER_03 48:16

But I think even in those examples, like even when Jesus tells the apostles to go go and preach his word, or Moses at the burning bush, he tells them to go to Pharaoh, like there's the trust element of it. He doesn't uh he doesn't tell them what's going to happen every single step of the way. It's it's go do this. And then it's I will be with you, and I I will equip you. There's the and I I just think I'll speak for me in my own life. I think uh and I I I've got to pray and walk through this every day. It has it it's very similar, that the promise is not it's going to be easy or uh you're not going to have any difficulties. The promise is I am going to be with you. And um that's yeah, and then that's the I mean that's the same promise that Jesus gives in the Great Commission. He says He says, Go out and spread the word. He says that I will be with you. You know, I'll be with you until the end of the age.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

And how does he fulfill that promise when he says I'll be with you? He says in the meantime, like, go wait for a bit. And we get Pentecost, right? And we get the Spirit, which is the fulfill just to add on to what you're saying, when he says, I'll be with you, for those of us now in the age that we're in now, he is with us in the spirit, indwelling us. That is the spirit of Christ that's with us, you know. He's kept that promise, right?

SPEAKER_10 49:47

Oh, one more. Sure. I didn't want to share this, but I think I will. Um this is the opposite of obeying. Okay. When you feel like you want to say something, and God says, don't say it, and you're like, oh well, I'll just do it nicely. You know, and you just want to pick yourself to say it anyway, and then it turns out to sound, and you're like, oh, I think I shouldn't have said anything. You know, because it's just kind of that that way of God prompting you, keep your mouth shut, don't say it. Was that this morning?

SPEAKER_08 50:22

Well, it's and it's like, okay, okay, you know, I should have just listened to it.

SPEAKER_01 50:29

That's good.

SPEAKER_08 50:31

There are times that you you want, in your mind you want to do good, but it's not the right venue to do it. Case in point. We were at a restaurant yesterday, and the the young lady that was serving us looked like a model. I wanted to tell her she looked like a model. Because I thought it was true and a nice compliment, and I thought, that's not appropriate to say that. Not here, not now. So I kept my mouth shut.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

That's probably a good move. Uh good. Uh so we'll wrap up there. I think I would just say to those last comments, if you one way I've started to, when I read these passages, I think, okay, and the spirit leads me. Um, how would that come out? And a lot of scripture talks about our words. So just on this point, I think a lot, a lot of scripture, and a lot of these passages about the Holy Spirit are surrounded by texts like don't bite and devour one another and things like that, right? Watch what you say and watch how you say it. That is seems very closely tied to this walking by the spirit stuff, right? We're to, yeah, Rick.

SPEAKER_12 51:52

Well, you know, it says if we're to you know, walk by the spirit, live by the spirit. And we were having uh some marital difficulties in my marriage, and I felt that I just needed to have a little bit more Holy Spirit-led uh living, especially in how I spoke to my wife. And so I wouldn't speak to her without, you know, not just I'm just telling what I'm doing. I would check with the Holy Spirit and I would say, Holy Spirit, you know, what do you want me to say? Spirit, what, Holy Spirit, how do you how do you want me to want me to say? And uh I wouldn't speak a word without doing that. Because I just was so tired. There's a way that seems right for a man that just leads to his destruction. It seems like the right thing to say right now, and it was just time again, going into destruction land. And I can't tell you how many times the Holy Spirit said, don't say anything, just listen to it. But you know, and I and I need to do, I need to live like that. You know, we're to be in step with the Spirit, in tune with the Spirit. You've got all these scriptures we're talking, and so I mean, I think that's a very appropriate thing. Holy Spirit, guide me, lead me, show me what to say, especially in my marriage. I don't want to say a word that isn't inspired by the Holy Spirit. I don't want to say anything if it's not inspired by him. And uh that's a hard way to live, but it's it's uh it's up to shoot for.

SPEAKER_08 53:21

It's a goal. Make sure that your words are soft and sweet because you never know when you may have to eat them. Number two, don't complain about not being invited to the table. It could be that you're on a menu.

unknown 53:38

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Good. Good yes, so one way maybe just to follow that up, is if you think about this in your life, there's there's things that we say, there are things that we do bodily, like maybe it's going over your neighbor's house and helping them clean up their yard or whatever. I have no idea. There's stuff that we do, there's things that we say, there's things that we think. God has governance over my thoughts. And um, yeah, this is my emotional life. I don't feel like I have direct control over my emotions, but I do think that I am supposed to feel certain things at certain times in certain ways, and my emotions can be wrong, right? Like I can get angry when I ought to be uh humble. I can not get angry when maybe that'd be the right response. I can there's all kinds of stuff. I can sin runs deep in me. And uh so if you want to that's one way I sort of think about this. Like, I like that example, Rick of just let the Holy Spirit let God be the guide here for the thing that I do, for the thing that I think, for the thing that I say, and take every thought captive, right? This is this is Christian living. And then we'll I'll pray. Let's encourage one another. If we have stories of like God working in our life, share that with somebody at church. We are told we are commanded to encourage one another. And what greater encouragement can we give than just God did this thing? God led me in this way. Look what God did, look how God has made himself manifest in my life. It suggested I think about that. Yeah. God makes his work evident in the fruit of the spirits. You know, wow, I was able to show love to that person. And last week I was struggling to pray that God would bless them. And you know, that those are real things. And all right, sorry, I'll ramble on if I just let myself ramble on, and I shouldn't do that because we've got other things to do. Lord, thank you for your for your work in our life. It's amazing to hear uh the things that you do through fabric or through leadings to speak to people, through you encouraging us not to speak. But would this help us to learn from each other when we to share with each other, to learn from each other, to discern where your spirit is leading? You really lead a people, you lead us individually as people, but you also lead us as a people. So let us all be united as a people in the spirit. If there be unity among your people, they will. We're told that it's our love for one another that will make you known. So help us to do that, Lord. Thank you that we can look forward to Easter and be reminded again that you are risen. Christ. Help us to carry that message to the world. In Jesus' name. Amen.