[Sunday School] Ephesians 3

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Good morning, everybody. Good morning. How are y'all? Doing well. Good. Did you have a good week? Yes, sorry. Very good. Excellent.

SPEAKER_06 0:45

Well, I've we've really enjoyed these uh these first couple weeks so far going through Ephesians. And um I I trust that the Lord is going to be good to us as we open his word again here in Ephesians 3. Um Gary, would you mind praying for us as we start? Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for bringing us all here together safely, and we ask that you open up our hearts and minds for the message that you have for us here. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Well, we've made it to Ephesians 2, and of course, we'll get to every reformed person's favorite verses in from Ephesians 2, 8 and 9. But um we're grinding. But we gotta get there first. So um I'll I'll read it for us and then we can we can start diving in. Uh Ephesians 2, verses 1 through 10. And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work, and the sons of disobedience, among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body in the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ. By grace you have been saved, and raised up, raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace and kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in that. Well, we don't start off all that great uh being being dead. I think we're gonna I think I'm you know I think we're gonna spend a good chunk of our time really in these first three three verses. Um did you have I haven't wrote it written down here in terms of I wrote down Westminster chapter six, section four, but I didn't actually write it out. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

So you you haven't read Westminster Confession?

SPEAKER_06 3:23

No, no, I I did not I did not write it out. Um I was gonna ask your autograph, but I'm not uh I would probably not oblige if I were. Um but the um chapter six is talking about in in the Westminster Confession, speaks on our man's fall, sin, uh, and things of that nature. Are you pulling it up? Yeah, perfect. And I think this speaks to um a little bit about our nature. Um six four. While you're pulling that up, I'll pull up a shorter catechism because I had one from that as well. Six four.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Is it Article Six?

SPEAKER_06 4:15

It's Westminster Chapter Six Chapter Six, Article Four, Section Four.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Yeah. From this original corruption whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do precede all actual transgressions.

SPEAKER_06 4:36

Yeah. And I think it's that type of language of wholly inclined toward all evil, not wholly, but entirely. Uh the the idea that uh we are wholly inclined toward all evil. Is there would there be any other, I mean, besides being besides here in verse one, would there be any other places that that you would point someone to on just the state or the fall and state of the eye?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

I could get on my soapbox here and hop on it and Psalm 14 verses two and three says, No one seeks after God. Yeah, no one is righteous, no not one. Isaiah 64 verse 6, that even our good deeds are like filth. Also in Isaiah 53, like sheep we've all gone astray each to our own ways. Jesus in Luke, I think it's Luke 11, verse 13, says that we are evil. Yeah, those are the words of Christ, not mine. And not only that, we're born that way. Psalm 51, verse 5, we're conceived in sin, surely we're sinful at birth. Yeah, Romans 5, uh 12 says, when the first man sinned, which was Adam, sinned and death then spread to the rest of mankind, for all of us have sinned with Adam. Yeah. I mean so much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 6:06

Well, I'm referring to an encyclopedia. Well, it's his favorite subject.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

I I I've been I've played in so many Christian rock bands over the years, and I've each band I've been in, there's always one or two that quite frankly are not that biblically astute. So it's forced me to go to God's word, and they'll say something like, No, we're good enough for God. What?

SPEAKER_08 6:29

What?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

We're good enough for God? No, it doesn't the Bible say that like we we just read here in Ephesians 2 that we're under the wrath of God, that we're born into this condition.

SPEAKER_06 6:37

Well, and what does chapter 323 say for all?

SPEAKER_02 6:41

So I've what else have I heard that Romans 3.23.

SPEAKER_06 6:44

Yeah. Are we good enough for God?

SPEAKER_02 6:47

We're worthy of God. I've just heard it's like, no, we're worthy of hell.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Uh 1 Kings 8 46. If they sin against you, for there is none no one who does not sin. There is no one who does not sin.

SPEAKER_06 7:03

One of the earliest accounts I think we see, you know, just three chapters after the fall, Genesis 6, verse 5. That the Lord observed that the wickedness of man was great in all the earth. The thoughts and deeds of his heart were only evil all the time. So that's you guys. Not me, but that's you guys. Yes, yes, yes. Um, but this this fallen state of, you know, I when it comes to understanding, I think, doctrine of man, doctrine of original sin, you know, I think we would say probably one of the top or most important points of doctrine is the is our understanding of who God is. But I also think a key portion of a key part of doctrine that's important for us to understand is doctrine of who we are.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

We know who God is. What was our condition before exactly we were saved? Yeah, and what were we saved from, and what are we saved to? And I think that's I mean, if we would jump back in here and look at the text a little bit and make some observations, it says, and you and you were dead, but then you you go down to verse 3, it says, Among whom we, who are the you and we? Are they the same people? Well, my translation says all of us. But I think we can possibly discern here that Paul is speaking to the Gentiles when he says, And you were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. But then he says, Among whom he said, Among whom we all once lived. No, you're okay. So he says, Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath. So he's speaking to them saying, Hey, Gentiles, you were dead, but then we Jews, among whom all we, whom we all once lived, making a distinction between the two, but then he brings it all back together when he says at the end of verse 3, like the rest of mankind. So we're our condition is the same as the Gentiles, the same as the the Jews. Yeah, but he's making the distinction because of the the next in verse 4, he says, but God, God is reconciling all things to himself in heaven and in earth, and he's making one man between the two.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

Yeah. And I mean that's like the rest, we were by nature deserving wrath, but because of his great love for us, yes, God made us rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our transgression.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Yeah, yeah. That's good. So, what does it mean? Even when we were dead in our transgressions, he made us alive. What is dead? What is Paul saying here, or what is he getting at? What does he mean by dead? Because we look here and we see, hey, everybody's walking around, everybody's doing what they want to do.

SPEAKER_07 10:55

Not spiritually alive, not spiritually alive, separated from God, maybe?

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Well, physically alive. We're dead to sin.

SPEAKER_06 11:04

Yeah, certainly separated from God, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:06

We're we're um not reconciled, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:08

No, right, alienated as alienated from the commonwealth of Israel. Um is it uh yeah, I believe it says later in Ephesians here.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

So yeah, um it is in uh if you look at 56, chapter 5, verse 6, and through 8, let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them, for at one time you were darkness, but now you're a light in the Lord. Walk as children of the light. So darkness. They were in darkness, so dead means that there was no light, no truth. We could not see the glory of God.

SPEAKER_06 12:01

Yeah. Any other like when I when I hear what it means to be dead, I think I think Paul gives us kind of an outline of what it means to be dead here, right? And when you were dead in trespasses and sins, mean meaning following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air. Um, you were sons of disobedience. Um you were carrying out the desires of the flesh, you were children of wrath. Um, and that is uh is there anything else that you think you could you would other ways you would describe that or add to it from uh what I'd say, condemned. Condemned, you know. Yeah. That's a great word for it.

SPEAKER_07 12:48

Pathway that leads to eternal death in hell.

SPEAKER_06 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 12:53

That's not my words.

SPEAKER_06 12:55

Yeah, we're not on a we're not on a good road.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

I would say I think we can gather more here, too, of that understanding in Ephesians 4, 17 and 18. Now, this I say in testifying the Lord that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do in the futility of their minds. They are darkened in their understanding. So they're darkened in their understanding, they're alienated from the life of God because of ignorance that is in them due to their hardness of heart.

SPEAKER_06 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

So that the ignorance and the darkness comes from the hardness of heart.

SPEAKER_08 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Yeah, but that heart of stone.

SPEAKER_06 13:38

Um does this message of, or does this message, does this message clash with just general uh evangelicalism nowadays, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Yeah, but like I said, the Christian rock bands I've been in, oh you're good enough for God, you're worthy of God. The Joel Osteen. The Joel Osteen, and and it that has worked its way into more what used to be more conservative, you know, Bible-based evangelical thinking. Sure. And um I encounter it all the time. Hear it all the all the all the time. Yeah. This was a while back. I was driving home. There was a guy on the I wasn't driving home. I take the shuttle bus and the um commuter train to work, and the guy on the train, he I I overheard him saying, you know, my my girlfriend's boyfriend is just giving my my daughter daughter a lot a lot of a hard time. I don't know what to do. He was talking talking about some uh some evangelical church that they went to, and I said, Sir, I don't forgive me for overhearing what you were saying, but one thing you can do is pray for conviction of your your daughter's boy boyfriend. And he was taking it back. It's like, well, we can't pray for conviction for someone that that's that that's not right. It's like, well, I mean, the Bible says the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin. We need to pray scripture.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

You need to pray for yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

And and and I and I was just shocked that he was went to this, I forget which church it was, I recognized it as being a more conservative evangelical church. And it's like, you don't believe in praying for conviction. I pray that God would convict me all the time and others, and not only convict us, but convict the hell out of us in a literal sense. Seriously, in a literal sense where someone would run from hell to the arms of Jesus, where where mercy is found?

SPEAKER_07 15:37

Yeah, you must have a conviction that this knowledge about Christ is true.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

And so where's your reference? Is that your study note?

SPEAKER_07 15:48

This is the uh uh New King James Version. Nice.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Oh is that a study note or a verse that you read? It's a study.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Yeah, but back when I was, it was in the 90s, I helped my church's youth group. This is back home in Iowa, and Jarza Clay came to this is Iowa City, they played in big ballroom there, and the lead singers at Hasseltine, is that that's the name? Yeah, he in between songs he was saying, you know, God thinks you're worthy. Kind of like how grandparents think you're worthy. It's like, wait a minute, you're a contemporary Christian person. Yeah, spewing that's like, what?

SPEAKER_08 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

I mean, but anyways, I'll get off my soapbox. I'm I'm I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 16:26

No, it's it's it's I write on that so it has plagued, it has plagued American evangelicalism, even to whether it's we think that we're not necessarily inherently sinful, or even if we think we are, we don't fully understand that we're dead. It's sometimes it's more so that we're just sick and we need some type of, you know, we need to go and pick the right medicine, you know, and get the get the right, get the right ointment to cure ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Okay, I'm gonna get back on my soapbox here. This was after I moved to Nature played in a crystal rock rock band, it was the Gary Slayton band, and we went to a Southern Baptist church. Okay, and there was a speaker there, he was in a full-time evangelist, he was saying, you know, folks, it's not that you're bad, it's just that you're lost. Yeah, we're lost, all right, but we're bad enough that we deserve hell. Uh I'm pretty bad. Uh yeah. So, okay, I'm sorry to help.

SPEAKER_06 17:26

No, no, no. I I appreciate no, we appreciate it. It helps us put into understanding just how, because within here, I think the vast majority of us in our congregation have a uh probably a better understanding of who we are without Christ, who we are in our in our flesh, um, than I would say a good amount of American evangelicals do. And but the understanding of our deadness in our flesh, I think is what part of what makes the gospel such great news, right? To understand the good news, you have to know the bad. And the bad is that word, the bad is pretty bad.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

That's uh that's right. And another thing, it's not the badness that a lot of folks think it is. I mean, even when we we think about salvation, we think about, well, I've been saved from drugs or alcohol or this, that, or the other. That it, you know, a lot of people get caught up in a big testimony of what they've been saved from. But it's even underneath that, it's the what we're talking about here, the deadness and the the deadness that underlies the trespassing and sin that is so bad. It's not the fruit of that deadness, but the deadness itself.

SPEAKER_06 18:58

Yeah. The um if if you would uh flip to John 11. John 11, the story of Lazarus. Yeah, yeah. Um it's a great, great story. Um and uh we'll I'm gonna read verse 38 through 44, just to help give us a little bit of context here. John 11. Yep, John 11, 38 through 44. Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. Jesus said, Take away the stone. Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days. Jesus said to her, Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God? So they took away the stone, and Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me. When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, Lazarus, come out. The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth, and Jesus said to him, Unbind him and let him go. It's a great story of Jesus' authority, his power, his divine nature. Um what is what was Lazarus doing?

SPEAKER_07 20:28

He was asleep. He was dead.

SPEAKER_06 20:32

Sleeping with the fish. He was asleep, he was in an eternal sleep. He was dead.

SPEAKER_07 20:39

Uh helpless to raise himself.

SPEAKER_06 20:42

Yes, and now a now infamous uh pastor described the only thing he could do was stink. Yeah, that's all. Literally, that's all he could do. There was an odor. He stinketh. Yes, he's stinkless. Stench? Okay, there was a stench. Uh that's all he could do. Um, Jesus did not first ask, hey, do you mind if I raise you from the dead here real quick? I don't know. He didn't ask for permission, he didn't ask for his consent, he didn't say, hey, Lazarus, come out if you so desire to choose to do so. And then Lazarus was like, you know what, yeah, I did choose to come out of the come, you know, out of this tomb. No, he was dead. And Jesus, by his authority, spoke uh new life into him, literally. And um, that's very similar one to our state, in that we are like Lazarus, stinking, rotting in this dead tomb of of our good works and under the weight of the law, and Christ then redeems us and makes us alive again. But um this is there a way then so we've talked about a little bit, but how the there's a little bit of a a weakening, if not a completely different um understanding of this within evangelicalism. How do we how do we teach this to unbelievers?

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Tell them as it is, yeah. With gentle oh, with a no no why no why why you believe and be prepared to give a reason for for the hope that you have with gentleness and something else, so kindness. Yeah, so yeah, tell them that they're reprobates and bless their reprobate heart, but you're going to hell and each. Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

What if this is a good place to take them?

SPEAKER_06 22:35

Yeah. Well, certainly. Yeah. Yeah. John 11, Ephesians 2. Yeah. Um. What if what if what if sin isn't necessarily a problem for them? Or it's like, well, I'm not Hitler.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

You know? All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

SPEAKER_08 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 22:55

Well, Jesus, I don't know exactly where it was, but he said if you've broken one commandment, you're guilty of breaking them all.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yeah. But that's kind of where it comes in with Satan, is that if there's not going to be shin with them.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

So and what about where there is no law? You know. There is no there is there. Sin is present, but their sins are not held against them. Not held against them, but um, but what is sin?

SPEAKER_06 23:33

That's a great question. Let's go to the Westminster.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

What is sin? Want of conformity unto the laws of God.

SPEAKER_07 23:41

We're gonna still cut off that definition.

SPEAKER_06 23:43

I was gonna say question 14. Sin is any want of conformity unto I don't know the rest of the laws of God or transgression of the law of God.

SPEAKER_05 23:55

Um singular, but I was gonna say, and it's kind of along these lines, is I've I've felt for a long time that the root of sin is selfishness and greed. Just about any sin you can have comes from that, it seems to me. Correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_06 24:14

No, I don't know. I think that's pretty, I think that's pretty fair. I mean, what was that's the deal? How how I mean how would we describe the fall? Adam Adam and Eve's first sin. It was kind of, you know, it was the serpent coming and say, did God really say? And then be like, you know what? No, I I'm I have authority. I'm I'm God. Uh I'm gonna do it my way. And that selfishness, that greed, that pride, um, you know, that really desire for us to be our own gods. Desire for anything other than God.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, I always felt that man's major sin was to just not believe in God. Certainly, unbelief is unbelief is that that is um our biggest sin.

unknown 25:03

Or I don't know if it's the biggest sin.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

I'll say that that's the huge thing. In a sense, they're there nobody, we're all without excuse. When there's enough knowledge that there is a God, we just choose not to acknowledge him as God and exchange it for the glory.

SPEAKER_07 25:21

And by doing that, you uh have more trust in your own self, right? Like your God, yeah, yeah, like what Gary said.

SPEAKER_06 25:30

Yeah, Jill, you brought up you brought up Romans 1, right? Claiming to be wise, they became fools and forsake for gave up the or whatever the words.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

They exchange, thank you. They exchanged the glory of God for that of mortal man and beast.

SPEAKER_06 25:47

So when you know that that understanding though, when it's like I I you know, you I've seen evangelists. When they're talking with people, you know, we have that kind of you know old question of hey, when life ends, where are you gonna go? Are you going up or you're going down? Most of the time, people are gonna say, Oh, I'm going up. Okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Or they think neither one, they're just yeah, they don't know.

SPEAKER_06 26:10

Yeah, they are. But if they had to choose one, I think most people would like to choose if they're going up. Yeah, it's like, okay, great, why? Well, you know, I haven't killed anybody, and you know, I'm not Hitler.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

I'm basically good. I try my best. Yeah. God understands.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

The good outweighs the bad.

SPEAKER_06 26:26

Yeah, and the question is, well, what's the standard, right? If the standard is not being the worst person to ever live, which I don't know who that is, but if that's the standard, then okay. Um, but that's a pretty low bar of entry, I'd say. And uh, but but ultimately, our I think our standard is a little bit, and by a little bit I mean extraordinarily, immeasurably, uh, more than than that. You know, it's it's Matthew 5, 44, right? What does Jesus say? Therefore, be perfect, as I am perfect, be holy, as I am holy.

SPEAKER_07 27:03

And um I think and that's where some people say the Bible contradicts itself because no one is righteous, but it tells us to be holy as he is holy.

SPEAKER_06 27:15

So, what do what do you think we do with that? When it tells us to be perfect, and yet it also says that our our our our our even our good deeds are like filthy rags.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

It helps us realize our need for salvation.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah, we need a mediator in Romans 7. Paul says we need the law because it tells us what sin and sin is, and when we look at the law, it's like, may I have not done that? Oh, but I did that. Oh, I did that. Yeah, I I I need forgiveness. It's a mirror, yeah. Yeah, I'm so yeah, we are called to be perfect, but when we realize we can't be perfect, it makes us realize that we need Jesus than forgiveness.

SPEAKER_06 27:48

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It should draw us, you know, it should lead us to draw near to the throne of grace.

SPEAKER_04 27:53

Well, salvation really is a process.

SPEAKER_06 27:57

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

Yeah, we're we're certainly being once once we accept Christ as our Savior, we then progress higher because we realize we, you know, you can do nothing to save yourself. Right. Yeah. Yeah, we're being sanctified. But but the question is, and I'm not sure you would say, like I said, you know, I accepted Christ.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

But I accepted Christ because of the He started it way before. Right. So I like that rather than saying I accepted Christ, I recognize now that Christ is the one that's that's that's in me. Yeah, he's made me alive. Yeah, that's made me alive. And now that I am alive, I'm gonna do all these things. Yeah. But I'm not doing them to be saved. Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

You're doing them because you've been saved.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Yeah. And you've been set apart to do those things.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

And so basically that's that's what isn't what the what the scriptures are saying. We'll get to it. You're jumping ahead of us.

SPEAKER_06 29:01

Come on, Travis, you're getting ahead of us. You want to just teach it for me? I mean, seriously, come on. Um, no, but I I we'll we'll speak a little bit on this, but you know, when you think of like we you see, you know, the standard that and and I think of when I think of like truly understanding what the standard is, I think of Isaiah. Yeah in Isaiah 6. He sees the holiness of God. And what does he say? Woe is me. Woe is me. For I am a man of unclean lips, and I am among a people of unclean lips. And um I I pray that is my response versus the uh the rich young ruler who comes and says, you know, what must I do to be saved? And Jesus says, Well, how do you how do you know what is good? Only only God knows what is good.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Well, not only that, only God is good. Right, right, and which implies we're not.

SPEAKER_06 30:04

And basically he's like, Well, yeah, me too, basically. And and then Jesus says, Alright, hot shot, go give your money to the poor.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Well, first he says, obey the Ten Commandments. Right. And then he says, Well, I've always done this right. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 30:16

He's like, I've yeah, I followed you very well. All right, fine. Give your money to the poor then. And he what does he do? He leaves sorrowful and in anguish. But yeah, I I think when we truly understand our nature, uh, it does make this uh this big butt in verse four uh just that you don't need to pause it. I was go ahead. I was gonna say that, yeah, you can I was gonna say that I like big butts and I cannot lie, but I don't think that's appropriate. But I didn't say it. In this context, it's a teaching point. Right, yes. Uh and so uh and and by that I mean here in Ephesians but God. But God being rich in mercy.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

That's throughout Christ.

SPEAKER_06 31:06

Yes. But God being rich in mercy. Uh what stuck out to me in verse 4 is because of the great love with which he loved us.

SPEAKER_08 31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:19

Yeah. That the the it stuck out to me in that the love of God is the driving force in redeeming us. No longer condemned, but redeemed because of God's love for us. And not in in the way that Paul kind of phrases this is a little bit interesting to me in that because we understand that God is love, 1 John 4, um, but that great love he chose to show to us, this great love with which he loved us, which I think speaks to the dramatic sense of uh of yet our our deadness in our trespasses and sins, and yet just the power of the love of God, and just how immense it is for uh for us in that. But um, yeah, I think it just this sentence we really go from the extreme of being dead to now alive together with Christ, there in verse 5. Um what's the purpose of this?

SPEAKER_03 32:42

Seven. Verse 7. Yeah, so that in the coming ages he might show, that he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace and kindness toward us in Christ. This is for the glory of God. All of we are saved for the glory of God. We're saved as a gift to Christ, who has accomplished our salvation, so that we can enjoy the immeasurable richness of his grace.

SPEAKER_06 33:22

I think of when studying, I thought of 1 Timothy 1, um, 15 through 17 as well. That here we see that in verse 7 that he would so that we he in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace and kindness. Um in 1 Timothy 1, let's see, excuse me. 1 Timothy 1, 15, 17, um, says that you know the saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. Um, but I receive mercy for this reason that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life. And um it's it's really all for, like you said, to show the you know the immeasurable riches of his glory, um, whether that be through his love for us, his grace and kindness to us, um, or his patience with us. Um because I don't know about you, but the Lord has been very patient uh with me in my pilgrimage, and uh continues to be so by his grace. And so I think I think really you know this portion really is summed up by that that you know the ground of our salvation is God's love and mercy, and its goal is the promotion of his grace and kindness toward us. Um quite a quite a different uh direction than the first three verses, but what does that distinction between those the first three verses and to now explain to uh you know, kind of show us about our about this Christian life or about truly what God has done?

SPEAKER_01 35:28

So, I mean, I think again, is that power of the verse four, like like this opening, like he really just sort of I don't realize he's gonna like go more into this just sort of in the entire next section, but yeah. The he says like the idea that you were dead, and then this is sort of that coming back to that one thing, like you're talking to that lost person, they don't feel they have a problem with sin, which means they they really have a problem with sin. Yeah, um, but he says it says you you were following the prince of the power of the air. Yeah, he's like you were following the spirit of the world. You were he says you were with the sons of disobedience. He says you were basically with like the entire different family. He's like because Paul really just has two camps. All he has is you're either unified with Christ or you're or you're with disobedient people. He says that that's really the only way to divide the world. And he says, and he says, but God. And he says, you know, but's a down player. It's it says you stick it in a sentence, it makes everything that became before less important than the stuff that comes after the butt. Yeah, and it says, but God came in, took you anyway, because he loved you, because of his grace through faith, and he's he's adopted you. Nobody gets to boast about it, and it says, because he wants to shower his riches on you, and he says, That's what's going on because of his grace.

SPEAKER_08 37:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 37:07

I like what this thing, what my Bible says about faith, it is uh it is not itself a work that somehow merits salvation, rather, it is a response of trust uh stimulated by the Holy Spirit and leading to salvation. God's purpose in making salvation a free gift is to eliminate any possibility of people boasting in their own self um self-efforts.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

So I think that's a great note to drive both of those points is to look back at Ephesians chapter 1, verse 6, 12, and 14 to the praise of his glorious grace with which he has blessed us in the beloved. And then verse 12, so that we who are the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. And 14, who is the guarantee? Speaking of the promised Holy Spirit, is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it to the praise of his glory. Yeah, yeah. From beginning to end, it's about the glory of God.

SPEAKER_06 38:19

The these last three verses, um, and I think it'd be best to not try and separate the first two from the third, from eight, from separate eight and nine from ten. I think a lot of times uh we like to, especially if we're trying to drive home salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, we'll take those two verses out. And rightfully, and understandably so. Um but we ought not to forget verse 10. But let's, before we get to verse 10, just this understanding, you know, for by grace you have been saved through faith, not of your own doing. It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Now, for we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Do you notice any contrast? I I I notice this I feel like there's a stark contrast between verses one and ten. Really, maybe verse two and maybe verses one and two and ten.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Or first three and the last one.

SPEAKER_06 39:39

Really those first three verses. First three verses, yeah, and that last one. Um what what similarities in terms of words are used in in what but yet there it's like there there's we see walking according to the course of this world in verse 2, right?

SPEAKER_07 39:57

And then in verse 10, um walk in good works, walk in good works, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Yeah, isn't the difference the first verses are before salvation and the last one is after salvation? Yeah, certainly, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

The in the old and the first three, we were dead, but in verse 10, we've been recreated for the purpose of good works. So we replace walking in trespasses and sins with walking in good works.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

And it goes back to go ahead and try because it's the end of that for us, which God prepared in advance. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

For us before the foundation.

SPEAKER_07 40:46

Yeah, that's what I was supposed to say. Back when he was choosing us before the foundation of the world. Yeah, it just took me back to Genesis when they were walking in the garden with God, and then yeah, and they screwed up.

SPEAKER_06 40:58

Yeah, but that's how it's supposed to be, right? In terms of that's that's what we that's what we long for. But yeah, this these good works that God has prepared beforehand before the foundation of the world, going back to Ephesians 1, verse 4. Um it just, I think, screams the goodness and sovereignty of God in all of this. That while we were still sinners, he made us alive in Christ for good works, which he prepared beforehand, that we should walk. And it's just um it's great. The this this had me thinking about it had me going down this train of thinking about obedience, Christian obedience. And um there's a quote from uh I think he well, I think he I think he was like an 18th or 19th century theologian. His name was Ralph Erskine. Erskine.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Erskine sound Scottish.

SPEAKER_06 42:09

Maybe. Um Erskine, is it? I think it's Erskine. Erskine. And well, I'll just pull it up because I thought it was it spoke really well to this sense of um obedience. This is something that we have been created for. Um he said, Ralph Ralph Erks Erskine said, um, the spirit's motion when it comes to obedience is not your rule, but the word of God. The spirit is the helper, but the word is our standard. So that it is a dangerous mistake to think you may not. So that is a dangerous mistake to think you may not go to duty, but only when the spirit moves. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 43:06

So he's saying that we should always obey not only when the spirit moves us, but even, I mean, it's it's a constant commandment.

SPEAKER_06 43:16

Yeah. Well, the spirit, you know, our our our our our inward sense of um what we feel we should do or don't do isn't always perfect. Um, not that, you know, and uh, you know, we may feel you know, like this kind of like I'll wait for the the spirit to provoke me to you know do this or do that, you know, whether it's you know, share the gospel with this person or um you know stand up for this or that or or you know, whatever it may be. And and something that I've been really thinking about recently is just no, I don't, I don't, I think I I think I just am called to obey. Um whether I feel like it, whether I feel the spirit is specifically provoking me or or not. The spirit's gonna, if if I'm through obeying, the spirit, the helper, is certainly going to uh be there and indwelling in me and help me to um be, you know, to obey well. Um but ultimately the standard for how we are to obey is I think the word of God. What it would would you guys agree with that or would or or um any any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_05 44:31

Yeah, I think um it's a recognition that we have free will and that we know right and wrong and that we have to resist the wrong and that is our choice to do so when the spirit is not in us. Yeah that's what I go from that. Yeah that we got work to do and we have a responsibility to do the right thing.

SPEAKER_06 44:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 44:51

Because it's easy to not do the right thing, yeah. It's harder to do the right thing, usually.

SPEAKER_06 44:56

Certainly. The this idea of um like the Heidelberg Catechism, how the question question one ends, and it ends when um by saying that who makes us now wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him. Meaning because of this new heart that we have, because now we have been made alive in Christ, we talked about you know what it means to be dead, and a part of that was we had that heart of stone, and now we have that heart of that beating heart of flesh, a new heart, a new first love for Christ. Now, because of that, um we are wholeheartedly willing and ready and able um to obey God, not perfectly. No, but um yeah, shorter catechism, 87.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Yeah, you you you gotta memorize this for school. So repentance unto what is repentance unto life? Somebody check me. What is repentance unto life? Repentance unto life is a saving grace. 87. 87 repentance unto life is a saving grace whereby a sinner out of a true sense of his sin, an apprehension of the mercy of God in Christ, doth with grief and hatred of his sins.

unknown 46:29

Sin.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

Sin. Sin, thank you, of his sin. Uh with full purpose of and oh, turn turn from it to God. Turn from it to God with full purpose of and endeavor after new obedience. There we go.

SPEAKER_07 46:52

So are you memorizing the entire catechism?

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Not the whole right now, not the whole thing.

SPEAKER_07 46:57

And you're doing this school for a class 85 through 90.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

Yeah.

unknown 47:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:09

But yeah, we not that this obedience means no, this new life means that you know, now that we never sin, we we see scriptures clear on that, you know, in Romans 7.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

Endeavor, with full purpose of and endeavor. I think your key words, we don't get it out.

SPEAKER_06 47:27

Yeah, speak more onto that.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

Uh onto the question of these. No, just thinking that thinking through that is that that is our endeavor, our full purpose of an endeavor after repentance under life is new obedience. We are not always gonna, you know, we're gonna fall short from time to time. We're gonna sin. We need repentance. We need to repent of our sin.

SPEAKER_06 47:50

New obedience. I hadn't thought about that. New obedience is in a repentance that leads to life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

Like that. And that's what we talked about too. I mean, you know. So there's an obedience unto death, and there's an obedience unto life. Yeah. Is there a or disobedience?

SPEAKER_06 48:20

Yeah, is there a line when when it comes when it comes to obedience, um when when does it become obedience for is there is there a really a tall tale sign of when obedience come is is for the the glory of God versus obedience for our own pursuits or our own safety. Is there a fine is there is there a clear line or is that or is that kind of muddy, what we think? So I think there is a line there of when our good works can maybe translate into it's a more inward-looking.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

It's easy to be a Pharisee where we our good works where we kind of more legalistic, I guess you might say. Yeah, you put your faith in your works, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:11

Um you think you think of the you brought up the Pharisees, and if and and you know, what what will they say? Lord, haven't we look at all of th haven't we done all these things for you? And what will he say?

SPEAKER_02 49:26

It's like filth in his eyes. Depart from you.

SPEAKER_06 49:29

I never knew you. Um yeah, when we start trusting in our in our works instead of the one who gave us the ability to do the works, then uh then we start going down a down a dark road.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Yeah, well that's where the Holy Spirit is in you and then is letting you know those things. Yeah. Right. Because I didn't come to the Lord until I was 35. And that was I can tell you the difference in thinking between a little bit different, you think? A little bit. I mean, I can give you stories. Yeah. What have I done who was saying that? Yeah. I did find out that would be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:17

Yeah. The um any any other, I mean we've got you know about five, ten minutes here. Um any other final thoughts on on this text or on what we've discussed on whether it's just our you know, our our nature, um the kind of the saving grace that God has granted us, the sense of obedience. Um any final thoughts that you guys have when looking through this and you know, gleaning?

SPEAKER_00 50:56

I'm just thinking a little bit about um how Jesus we how it comes down to us knowing that we need Christ and that we need redemption. Yeah, he never had harsh words of um condemnation towards the real sinners that came to him. Yeah. I think the woman at the well and all he he never were harsh with them, he never condemned them, he always. And and I I I think it's because their heart was receptive to receive peace and mercy.

SPEAKER_06 51:40

They um yeah, they I think they saw Christ, they saw they saw him, perhaps, and said, I'm not that. I am in in fact, who did you know it's it seems like only the ones that I mean because Jesus certainly did have harsh words to say, not towards them, but actually towards the Pharisees.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yeah, and that's kind of that's I'm kind of contrasting those two.

SPEAKER_06 52:07

Yeah, that would be that's the whole feast of booze in John 7 through 10, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

That would just go back to speak of uh because of the great love with which he loved us. He loved, he loves his children, and he knows who his children are, and when he was talking to them, he was he his love was coming, was being manifest to them in those encounters.

SPEAKER_06 52:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

I'm struck. I I think verse 10, I think you read that Ralph Furst and quote, or what to know, but I think uh it's an encouragement to me, and maybe I don't know, others who are sometimes tempted to anxiety and mourning. I think it's not just you know, he chose us for the foundation of the world, but also we are his workmanship created for good works. And I think this clause, which I think hasn't jumped out to me as much for just staring at it for a few minutes, the works themselves which God prepared beforehand. It's it's like even we're chosen for his glory, God's even picked out the things we're going to do. Yeah, but he's even laying that out, and so you know, that we shouldn't walk in. Like we really have no reason to boast. It's not that I stink a little less, you know, than the corpse next to me, or have to figure out how to get the stink off. It's uh you know, you know, Jesus's work by grace through faith, and even as we walk in him as his workmanship, you know, he's even preparing those things through which we are for beforehand. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 53:57

The saying that I was told in school, I didn't really, I didn't keep much, I didn't hang on to much things at at the Nazarene University when it came to theology and other sorts of things, but I did hang on to this piece, and I thought it was worthwhile that you know that God equips the call. And that and we're all called in some ways to our own ministry, I guess you could say, and and part of that is you know, and the I guess another way to say that another call to a ministry is just obedience. And um, you know, I think of Moses, free my people.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

Well, to equip us saints for the work of ministry is what we're gonna get to later on in four.

SPEAKER_06 54:49

Yeah, well, you're now you're skipping ahead, but that's okay. To your point. Yeah, thank you. You know, it but you know, Moses had a stutter, and it's like, well, I can't go and do these things. And it's like, well, but yet God equipped him to be obedient to his call in his life. And uh in those things of which have that even you know, even when we feel we want to obey, ah, but I got this or I got that. Uh if we obey the Lord, um I think he will give us all that we need uh for whether to obey him or things that uh that are kind of indirectly uh involved in that.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

But yeah. One last thought from I think it our need, our dependence upon God comes through in this as well, because apart from him, we well and when we can't be made alive, we can't do the good works that he's called us to unless we're depending on dependent upon him to work through us to accomplish them.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

The word that being kind of jumping out of me is self-reliant races Christ.

SPEAKER_06 56:10

Yeah. Yeah, this exactly, walking by um the prince of the power of the air, carrying out at verse 3, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind. Um once lived in the passions of our flesh, um, but now created in Christ Jesus for good works. Um and it's also what jumps out to me too intense, uh, for we are his work and shit. That that just screams joy to me. Like I now get to almost be co-heirs with Christ, ambassadors with of Christ, and uh get to come along, you know, be just a small broken vessel for God's purpose in this world. Um what a joy that is. Why wouldn't I obey? You know? Uh there's that that uh that alone is you know, one his saving grace toward us should lead us toward gratitude, and that gratitude being good works and good works for for his glory. Um but it just it just leads to joy that yeah, we don't do these out of um obligation or necessity per se, uh, but out of love and joy and thankfulness to what to what God has done and what he continues to do in us. So um yeah, joy, joy there screams off the jar jumps off the page for me on that. Good dealer, but um I hope you're enjoying this. I I know I am uh walking through Ephesians. It's been it's been great to walk through it. Um any before before we head off and and praise or anything specifically that that we can be praying for each other and um any anything going on that that we can lift up? I I because I I would I would ask for you to um pray for um well two things. One my grandpa celebrated celebrated his 80th birthday, so uh he's living life, but he he's been without his wife, my grandma, who was married for 54 years, um for since 22. And I think every year it just gets a little bit harder for him. So um pray that he would find purpose still that in the in the time that the Lord has him here. Um and then for uh my cousin and his wife, uh they've been married for six years now and are very sure are really struggling in their marriage. Um two young boys, um farming family, and uh yeah, so be praying for for him as well, if if you would. Um yeah, any other prayer requests or um?

SPEAKER_00 59:24

I mean, just uh I have a friend, um, some of you may have met her, they came here a brief time, Marlise and Marion. She flew back to South Africa. Her mom is in very bad shape.

SPEAKER_06 59:35

Health-wise?

SPEAKER_00 59:36

Yeah, as in they see her home.

SPEAKER_06 59:39

So what's what what's uh your friend's friend's name?

SPEAKER_00 59:42

My friend's name is Marlise. Marlise. And then her daughter is Marion. Okay. Marion didn't wasn't able to go with her.

SPEAKER_06 59:49

Yeah. So Marliese's mom and uh Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

And she's at the stage of organ failure.

unknown 59:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:03

All right, well, um, Alan, you want to help us out? Father, we are we we do rejoice that we have been saved by grace through faith. We thank you for your word that that shows us and teaches us our condition that that led to our needing to be saved by you. We thank you, Father, that out of your love, you you did just that through Christ. You you made us alive together with Christ. And we just pray, Father, that you would continue to work that into our hearts and minds, that we would meditate on that and that that would move us in uh in a direction of greater obedience to you for your glory and for your grace. And Father, we just lift up the uh prayer requests that were mentioned, Brennan's grandfather and his uh missing his spouse of 54 years. You just pray that you would give him purpose. May he rest in you and his and Brennan's cousins uh in their marriage. Just pray that you would heal that marriage and uh for be as friends in uh South Africa. Be with them, Father. But Lord, we just rejoice in your goodness and pray that you would continue to draw us closer to yourself, that we might continue to gain a greater and new understanding of who we are in Christ, and that we would do the works that you have prepared beforehand for your glory and for your honor. In Christ's name, amen.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:51

Amen. Well, thanks y'all. Appreciate it. Thank you.