[Sunday School] Practical Parenting 4

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Transcript

unknown 0:35

As opposed to where they could maintain per I put a little summary per paper. I put a little summary of what we did in the question last week. Fair enough. Or just typed out.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

So did you guys get the uh Al's ready because we uh we kind of pulled a switch over here? I was still on the I'm not here next week. I'll be back in touch with the scouts. Um Rick's gonna cover the class next week. And we talked about, well, this week we were gonna do it. Um Strong World Child, and Rick said, ooh, me, me, me, me. So we switched around. It was a the voice of experience, right? On the strong willed child. Yes. Um we're experts. You know what an expert is. I think I've been in that an act as a has been. I think we have a spurt as a drip under pressure. That's me.

SPEAKER_06 1:47

We should say we've had it.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Okay, well, that's a little bit of a little bit. Hopefully a few more will wander in. Uh Father God, we thank you for this day, just uh this beautiful weather we've had yesterday and today, and we can give you glory for that. Um, we thank you for our mothers and and all that they've done. Um, Lord, it's a special calling that you have for the moms, and we pray that uh you just encourage them today to continue being the godly mothers that they are, and that uh the children and their care um and their household would be blessed because of their relationship to you, first of all, and then uh living that out in their family life. So we thank you for that. I would just pray your blessing today as we talk about decision making and our kids helping them to grow up to be um uh adults able to make wise decisions, teaching wisdom, discernment, and that uh it's just a process that you would have them go through, and that uh um it's something that your word and your spirit guide us in. So we pray your blessing on this day. Amen. Okay, so we are gonna talk about any any thoughts about last week's, you know, did you go back and thank your kids or anything?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

I don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Sure. Or you should go back and say, well, you're just waiting, we're gonna do strong children next, you're in for it.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

I thought that was really helpful last week. I feel like last week helped balance out the first week where like you on here you have established the balance between love and discipline, stay in authorities, um, be flexible enough to gravitate towards the other parenting styles as a situation dictates. I feel like that was helpful to just recognize your flexibility here, and um it's not like you're just tagging one of those parenting tiles. Um we put you on the pads.

SPEAKER_06 3:45

Sure, everybody. So sorry, everybody. We just started. Oh, okay, and I just got here too.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Okay, does everybody know Leslie? Okay, all right. Leslie's got wisdom from being a single parent, and and and she's also got a college-age kid, so she's been through the teenage years. So that's gonna be uh helpful to us. Um okay, so just moving around within that authoritative square allows you to get into you know closer to the other areas. Okay. Anything else you were able to? This is what I have in my head, had in my head as a parent.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Oh yeah, acting earlier.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, yeah. So um it was just a visual for me every time I had to do it. And our grandkids do a little bit too, you know, because sometimes they're a little sassy too. Okay. Anything else? Yeah. Anything you put into practice? Discipline a little earlier. Okay, okay. Okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:12

We're having our grandkids over today, so we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

I mean, it's Mother's Day. You're not supposed to discipline on Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

But it does apply to the grandchildren too, because so, you know, it it you know don't touch that vase, you know, and then you still must, you know, after that they're either removed from the room or they're toy as well.

SPEAKER_06 5:38

Calm.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Calm and pieces are excited about. Um because they will look at you too, you know, they'll give you the eye. Yes, and then they do it anyway, you know. So nip it in the butt. Barney Feif used to say, nip it, just nip it. That's our generation. Okay, so today we're gonna talk a little bit about making helping your kids make decisions, and um it's a it's a skill that they have to learn, but it's also something they can start pretty right away as a as a as a small child. Um I know we grew up um with our kids allowing them to make choices within reason, and you know, our candy's father or uh their grandfather is very much an authoritarian. He he would do the whistle thing that Montrapped did if he could. But um, it used to drive him crazy. He still says, Oh, you'd like to make too many choices. You know, how can you let your kids do that? So it drove him crazy, but um, we we continued at it. So and I think they're pretty good at making decisions now. Um whereas Tampi has a hard time making decisions. So um we're talking about on the way over. It's like, yeah, that's very often it's what should I do? What should I do? You know, she's very much what should I do kind of person. So and then I'm I'm snarky, so my response is always, well, should implies moral value. So far be it for me to tell you what you should do more on value.

unknown 7:19

So I'm I'm no helpful there, so don't use that.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Um so the uh there's a couple Bible verses uh to get us started. Um Proverbs 1 7. Somebody wanna either memorized or want to look that up and do it.

unknown 7:43

Hello, Mary. There's an extra last week or something that is Proverbs 1 and 7? Proverbs 17.

SPEAKER_08 7:57

Yeah, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Okay, so really the fear of fear of the Lord is the beginning of all that. So um, if we can teach our kids, first of all, to fear the Lord in a godly way, then He'll take care of the wisdom part of it as well. So that's kind of the foundation. Um, but there are a couple, another one I want to do. Um God reveals his will or guides us in making decisions in in two primary ways. One is through the Holy Spirit's instruction, and if we're in tune with the Holy Spirit, he'll he'll give us insight, but also scripture. You know, so much is already in scripture for us as far as making decisions, and um, it's like the old spaghetti sauce um ragu commercial, you know, it's in there. So start with that. And and you know, when we're we're we're following the Holy Spirit, sometimes our our spirit can confuse things. So I think even you know, the Holy Spirit told me to do this kind of thing, still has to be um measured up against scripture. Um because life is full of shattered people that said, Oh, I think that God was leading me to do something sinful, and they didn't track scripture too. So the Holy Spirit and Scripture under the uh authority of Scripture. So if we're filling our kids with Scripture and the wisdom that comes with that, that's gonna help them make good decisions. But um another way to look at it is you know, we have our spirit trying to make a decision and the Holy Spirit guiding that, but very often we want to do what pleases us and not what pleases the Lord. So that's a fundamental question, you know. Not I don't want to say what would Jesus do, because that's just that's that doesn't really fly. But you know, um that uh am I pleasing the Lord in this versus pleasing myself? So that's another way to look at it too. But you know, at the same time, when we do things that please the Lord, it's very pleasing to us too. So, you know, the in the long term, pleasing the Lord is going to be pleasing to us. Um somebody want to read Psalm 32 verse 8. I think this is the the parents um should be a parent, so we commit this to memory. I think this should be your parents' uh um philosophy throughout. Psalm 32, eight. It's great for helping your children make decisions. Somebody got that?

SPEAKER_04 10:48

I have it. Okay. I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go. I will counsel you with my eye upon you.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Okay. So I think that really is your your threefold role. Instruction. You're gonna give your kids instructions, and that includes you know what is is how do you make a decision, but also consequences. Um you're gonna teach them in the way they should go. So you're gonna set an example and steer them in the way they should go, because they are you know they're empty vessels until you fill them with something. And uh you're gonna counsel them. So that's also encouraging them to as they make their decisions. So that kind of the threefold purpose of raising your contact children. Um, so a couple of thoughts before we turn it over to the panel as far as ideas for um helping your kids make decisions. So maybe I'll ask you guys as we go along. Um, of course, it's going to change depending on your child's age, but role-playing is important for helping your kids make decisions. Um yesterday, our our little seven-year-old granddaughter was playing baseball, and they made a lot of, you know, at that age, it's softball, they're kind of clueless about the situation. You know, so hold the ball, not where nowhere to throw it, and meanwhile, the other kids are circling the mazes. Yeah. The parents are screaming, and uh, you know, so or you know, somebody'd be standing on their own ball rolling by, and you know, watch it. So I was coaching her is that when you're standing in your position at every pitch, think ahead of time, what am I gonna do if the ball comes to me? Okay, look around, okay, there's somebody on first base. So if the ball comes to me, I'm at short, I'm gonna throw it to second base or run to, you know, so rehearse it beforehand. And that's the same thing with role-playing decisions, you know. Let's give them uh some scenarios for them to think ahead of time what their decision would be so that when it comes, it's a little easier. Um, so when when you do that, you can also you know talk about some of the consequences of you know, okay, you decided this, then this might be the consequence. Anybody ever see these books that um you read a uh you know two or three pages, and then it says, if his decision is to do this, go to page 28. If you want to do this, and it kind of follows through. That's sort of what you're you're doing in role-playing, you know. Okay, if you do this, okay, let's take that from there. So um, you know, so an example might be okay, you got$30 for you know from your grandparents and parents for birthday money. What are you gonna do with it?

unknown 13:46

Think about it at the time.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

So, uh and again, you might, as part of counsel, you might put some framework to that and say, okay, well, the principle is some of it you tithe, some of it you save, some of it you spend. So, given that, you know, let's rehearse what you would do. So those are kind of things that you can do ahead of time.

SPEAKER_06 14:07

Um so did you guys ever do kind of that ahead of time thinking as to you know, what would you do if it was more like that with us, you know? What did we do if that?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

So no.

SPEAKER_06 14:35

Probably not. I mean, I don't know if we worded it that way. It was probably in this situation, what would be you know, right decision that that honors. We didn't we didn't use honor of the Lord a lot younger when they were young, we would now. Totally. What and you know, even though that bracelet was kind of, I think it is actually a good principle of you know, think of the what would be obeying Christ, what would be following his commandments in this situation.

SPEAKER_07 15:13

We we did try to, I know I know that I was very conscious of trying to teach them what a good decision looked like. Okay, that they knew what a good decision was. So we would be when they would obey or do something, we would always go, that was a really good choice. That was a good decision. Okay, you made the right decision, you know, it's time to put up your toys now. They would start putting up, that's a great choice. You did the right decision, yeah. And then we would let them also know what a bad decision looked like, you know. Oh, you know, that's well, we wouldn't say that. Okay, but you know, oh, that was that was the wrong choice, you know. You're gonna now have to have this consequence. But the for me, the my motivation was I wanted them to know what a good decision looked like. So when they got into 1617 and somebody's offering them booze at a party, they've already learned how to make a good decision. So I don't have to be there with them telling them what to do, they've learned how to make good choices. So I wanted that's what I was, and I know that we were conscious of that.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Okay. Did you ever, you know, on the car ride to a birthday party or to something like that, do you ever coach ahead of time? What how are you gonna behave when you get there?

SPEAKER_05 16:30

Yes, Mom, we do that. No, but yeah, we didn't shake that scoop. Depending on where we would go. Yeah, you would always let them know these are the rules, and this is what we expect, and that's the behavior, and sometimes we had that, and sometimes we didn't. Expectations. Yeah, and it's interesting, you know, when they're younger, you know, you you parent them, and then when they get older and become adults, you give them advice just because you can see things down the road, a lot of times they don't take that advice, and it's kind of hit and miss, and you watch your adult children sometimes fail too. And it's it's um it's interesting to watch, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Well, which brings me to the next point, good segue there, um, and that is sharing stories of people who did make decisions, you know, and they're all around you. You know, okay. Well, I noticed Billy Billy threw a tantrum over there. Is that a good decision? You know, let them talk about it. Or even adult decisions, you know, you know, uh, good or bad, you know. Um gee, you know, your your older cousin is is dating a girl. Did he make a good decision? You know, or you know, another cousin that they started to do some drugs, was that a good decision? Or um, you know, there's positives and negatives to that. So bringing other examples in there. So did you guys ever point the finger and learn from others?

SPEAKER_05 18:05

Good or bad decisions? I would have to say that in watching our kids discipline their kids, I'm like thinking back to when I was a parent and I was like, wow, I never really gave that much detail. Boy, that that's that's really good that they explain it and say, what choice are you gonna make? Is it gonna be, you know, what are your choices here? Make a good choice, and it's just a little more explanation now, and it might it's good. I wish I would have had a lot of those learning tools when I was there.

SPEAKER_08 18:40

LA gave us plenty of opportunities to point out hey, that see what that person's doing, don't do that. Yeah, seriously, I would take them downtown LA because they work downtown, and I had plenty of examples to show they still remind me. Yeah, and I wouldn't point out, hey, these people, I don't know what caused them to do this, but this decision making got them here. Yeah, and as far as the other rule or uh thinking and advanced stuff, I would granted I'm a little I'm a little over the top in this kind of stuff, but I would use the examples of abductions and teach my daughters that you if somebody grabs you, would you screaming kicking? Don't ever get in the car, don't ever get in the car. So they were like, it was drilled in that don't ever scream kick, don't be, don't be uh compliant. So I would that's good though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well then maybe I put all those uh counseling things later. Yeah. One one of the thing is whenever they were out in public, I let every one of my kids know that they are representing the family. That's good. And if somebody, some other parent disciplines them, I'm gonna let them discipline them. Because I want them to know that oh man, other people are watching. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

And uh I don't know if it always worked out, but yeah. I remember going out to a restaurant one time and it was with my mom and we prayed. We said breaks ahead of time, and then she pointed around the table and says, Okay, everybody in the restaurant knows your Christians.

SPEAKER_08 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

How are you gonna behave basically? That's a good strategy there.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Go ahead. Um, well, this isn't necessarily what you're when Sam was in first grade, he had a traumatic kindergarten year because he repeated it and it was traumatic for me. Everything was like us doing it, not just him. You know, I felt like everything was happening to me. And uh anyway, first grade he had a teacher that really liked him, and and he the kindergarten years were hard. He went to the principal's office all the time. I got to know the principals by first name that first few years. But uh they the teacher would mainstream in special ed kids or CDC kids or whatever, you know. And there was a sweet, sweet kid named Ryan, who was big and had, I don't know what all he had, but he was very sweet. Even years later, when I saw Ryan, he knew who I was. He'd say, Hey, you're Sam's mom. But just a sweet kid. Well, he had come in uh to eat lunch. Yeah, he'd sat down at the lunch table with Sam and another kid, and they said, We don't want you to hear. We don't want you to eat with us. And the kid cried. And the teacher got really upset, and she just, you know, had written me a note, this little agenda thing, and and I was so upset, and I anyway, Sam was very upset and very sad that he'd done it. You know, of course you won't mention these things to me, but of course, but anyway, because I only have one person to tell stories about, so I don't know who it is. Um anyway, uh the other, I just was horrified, and what I immediately went to was you know, talking about like discrimination and stuff like that. And I said, you know, Sam, you're black, and there weren't that many years ago that kids would do that to black kids. In some places they still do, and it's Happen, you know. We definitely didn't want to hear that, you know. And um I made a bad decision. I I guess what I want to give is an example of this wasn't good. The other mother, we were discussing it, and she said, Oh, I'm so embarrassed, I'm so embarrassed. So she said, I made um whatever the kid's name was, go bring this Ryan a present. So, you know, peer pressure, of course, like you know, I'll take any advice from any mom. I'm like, okay, so we I made Sam get him a present when we go in the class. Well, the teacher, the CDC teacher, was very gracious and very nice, and and Sam just never said a thing, never didn't look up, didn't know what to do. And this little boy, Ryan, said Sam, you didn't have to do that. And I thought that was we did not need to do that. That was not a good decision to show him that you can just buy, you know, repentance or something. I anyway, now cut ahead to he was in sixth grade, I think. And they were like to take gum to school, and they could use gum during tests to help them concentrate and study or whatever. So anyway, he had this watermelon gum he always had every day. And some girl had been stealing his gum. And so um she just grabbed a piece from his backpack when she passed it back. So one day he got it up and he and he went up to her just after it all happened, and he took one of her pencils and he just brought it down and threw it down on her. And uh I just completely, I mean, I tried not to laugh when he told me that because I thought it was so funny. But uh we discussed it, and I said, you know, you know, one thing you could do is you can go to the teacher and say you don't want to sit by her, that she's a problem, you all just don't get on good. And he's like, Oh, well, you know, maybe you could do it. And I said, Well, no, if they'll let me do this. I think it might be better coming from you. And I want you to know that child did it. And I I took him to school early and sat in the parking lot while he went in there. I was so proud of him that he went to this teacher, and the teacher said, Well, I didn't even know this was going on, and I will separate you. I guess they sat beside each other, but I want all that to say, you know, we give bad advice sometimes, you know, and teach them things that aren't really gonna help them, you know, in the long haul.

SPEAKER_06 25:08

But then sometimes you get it right.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Well, yeah. Yeah, it's good. I mean, you know, I just and we didn't have to do it. But uh anyway, I think the and you know, the thing about the harassing special needs kids, you know, I I I just think sometimes we can let our kids see what kind of prejudices they have and what how they can be, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

And then we can coach them ahead of time. Right. If the kids are doing that, are you gonna participate? Right. Right. Right. Be prepared to stand up for that.

SPEAKER_08 25:52

You know, it brings up a good memory. We had uh sometimes these kids or subordinates, someone in your family, you hear something about them, and what did you can you go along with the story of what you just heard? And it's so over the top. How did you do that? Saying that, my son got in trouble when he was in kindergarten in elementary school. But I had some questions because he there was a story behind, they had to write a story, and he wrote this story about death or murder or something like this. What are you doing? So the teacher kind of flags this thing and says, Hey, this thing was like what do you call trauma services, right? Yeah, how do you come into this? He goes, That's what the lady told me to write. I said, Nobody told you to write this stuff. And I'm talking, and I was really like, Yeah, what's going on with this kid? So I said, What? Then I finally listened to him, which woman told you this? And he told me. So I went to the to the woman that was helping in the class. I said, Does this sound familiar at all? This this story. She goes, Oh yeah, I told him this would be a good story to write because it fit the narrative. I was like, you did tell that person. Right? So there was another outside influence where I was like ready to blame him for his bad decision making when he was just going to orange in the assignment.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah, yeah. So we are parsing through the real intent of what they're doing. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 27:21

I I just also were talking about parents making bad decisions. You know, we we can talk and encourage our children to make good decisions, but then when they're seeing us make bad decisions, um a lot of that just gets negated, and you've just kind of lost whatever kind of credibility you have because you've lost it, you've made bad decisions, and they obviously know it. You're you're out of control, you're angry, or whatever, you feel in the bad decision you've made. So, I mean, I think what's so important in helping children make good decisions is to own up to your own bad decisions.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Okay, so how do you model decision making? That's another point, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Well, on that note, I think you I think it's important to ask your kids for forgiveness. I mean repentance and confessions. I have I have maybe had the right intent, but the way I delivered something wasn't so great. And I I mean I apologize all the time, but you know, I think it's good for my kid to hear me say, you know what? Yeah, I you know, that was not a curve.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

And that may relate to even our curve from last week, you know. If you if you're up there on the top of the curve when you you may have to go back and say, hey, you know, I was angry when I made this. I should have.

SPEAKER_07 28:45

Right. So staying current with them, you know. Hey, the way I the way mommy and daddy were speaking to each other, that didn't honor the Lord, you know, and we're sorry. Well, you know, the way I spoke to you, you know, just uh owning it is so important to help them know what good decisions look like because now they're seeing you being repentant. Yeah, so that's helping them learn.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Well, I you know, I usually tell my kid, you know. I didn't do, I did this and this, and that was really a silly thing to do, and you know. Okay. Um, I mean, um, I think too to forgive my kid is a big deal. Like, you know, ask him for good forgiveness, and then and he always is forgiven. But I think I need to not hold on. Well, you probably talked about this before, but holding on to things, you know, I've got to forgive him, and just okay, it's done.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Moving on, yeah.

unknown 29:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

So did you guys ever do uh like a bigger decision that you may you know we're we're gonna move or I'm gonna take a job or we're gonna uh do something together as family. Did they ever see the how the sausage is made in in your decision making?

SPEAKER_06 30:07

I didn't make a sausage.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Well one thing the job I had emphasized I had, I just retired. But uh the job I had wasn't the best pain, wasn't stress-free, you know, and but the hours were very good to be alone. And the my work environment was good about me.

SPEAKER_06 30:47

It was great.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

You know, I left early to go hit ball games, and when my mother was in the assistant living, I'd take lunches and go. So did he know that was a decision you had to make? Yeah, I mean I discussed it. I never, I mean, I don't know that I ever said, Oh, I wish I worked there or there.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Did you ever have it be in the middle of the decision and then what do you think we should do? Only regarding food. Well, it it doesn't have to be a life-changing decision, yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:23

I would say not so much when they're younger. Yeah. We would discuss it and make the decisions. But I mean, we would of course think of our family as to what we were doing. But then as time, you know, you get old, like now, for instance, they all have families, so we can suggest something and then see where everybody's at for whatever we're doing. Yeah, it just changes over time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

You know, this is more of using your own personal uh decision making as a um, you know, sharing stories of people made a decision kind of thing, you know, just bringing out okay. Let's keep moving on here. Um Bible lessons are always a good way to show decision making. Um you think of uh the foolish man built his house upon the sand, you know, so that's a great story you can you can tell, and then have them think about okay, what was the wise and the foolish decision? Well, why was it wise and foolish? Um the Good Samaritan is a good one as well. You know, what decisions did the older brother make? What did the younger brother make? What were the consequences? Were those good decisions or not? You know, I think of even the you know Saul and the Witch at Endor. You know, he did have some good things. He got rid of all the some of the witchcraft in the in the kingdom, but then he went and consulted the witch at Endor. So what were the consequences of that decision?

SPEAKER_06 32:56

On that note, John, I know with your generation, a lot of you have you know the story Bibles and stuff like that. And but by I think it's wonderful, and I know we do this for grandkids, is when you read Bible stories, a lot of times they'll have questions in it, or you ask them throughout. That could be away with the younger ones, especially to say, you know, what was the God-honoring decision, you know, regarding like King David or whatever. That that Bible stories build the character and principle and store up in their hearts. So I know most of you probably have that, but if you don't use that as a great resource of these wonderful Bible devotional things or Bible stories, or even when you read them, you you're interacting, you're not just reading a story. You know, I'm sure most of you do that. It's kind of a newer thing when you were young. Right, right. But now I know they have so many resources.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

What I'm suggesting here is when you're doing those stories, start if you want to develop decision making, start putting decision-making ideas in how you process it. Yeah. And then, you know, I think of Ruth and Naomi, you know, that was someone who did a good decision, and you know, it was a God-honoring decision, so there's all kinds of why it was. Right. So the Bible's chock full of them, so you can there's a lot there. Um, and then the other thought I you you probably told Bible stories and and use that as an example as well. So, of course, we have all kinds of songs too that do that. Yeah. Okay. I think that's an old one for the screen. It is an old one, but it's a good one. I get it.

SPEAKER_06 34:44

The oldies are the goodies.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Um, and then practicing prayer with your kids. Yeah. You know, as prayer is going to be part of your formula for deciding. So, you know, you're you're you're allowing the Holy Spirit to work on you, but you're also modeling for the child, or you know, it might be that you might say, okay, you have to decide whether you're going to you know go to the party or go to the go play, you know, your sports team, then go and pray about it. And then, but that also helps them to settle and not make a flash decision. It gives them time to reflect carefully as to what they're gonna do. So prayer was a good put a good part of it, but then it also becomes a training ground for later on. Okay, I'm gonna pray about this first. So um, and then uh don't rescue your bad decisions. We've talked about this all along, allowing natural consequences to take their place. Um sometimes you have to bite the bullet and let them make the decision later on because of it. Um examples where somebody made a bad decision and you let them suffer the consequences.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

I can remember something my parents did. One of my brothers had gotten in trouble at school, and I remember being in church, he had come home from school, and I don't remember how I got wind of it or if we were discussing it as a family, but it was kind of like he shapes up or he's shipped out of our home, and I just remember being just tearful over the possibility of my parents having to make that decision that cutting him off because he wasn't um making good choices. Okay, okay. So, I mean, ultimately they were able to support him through and he was able to change his ways, but uh had he not, they would have figured it out. We let you come back when you're done.

SPEAKER_06 36:54

Yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah, those are the fun teen years ahead of. We did a lot of founder setting like that as they got older.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Yeah, yeah. Like with the grandkids too, they'll be they'll have a toy or something and then they're abusing it. And then, okay, and then when it breaks, you can talk about okay, what was the consequence of your mishandling, your decision to do it, or uh giving them something and say make sure you're a loser or whatever, they lose it, but I'm suffering consequences, even if you found it. I'm not opposed to manufacturing situations where they can make decisions or fail. You wanted to jump in there? Okay, yeah. So that I can't think of any specific examples where we do that. Well, last on Friday night we were over at our son's house, and they wanted to play softball, but it was getting dark. So, okay, well, you know, old people, you play baseball with me, but you know, it's getting too dark to see the ball. Well, about half an hour later, she came back with a big shiner. Oh, yeah. They decided to play, and she got whacked in the head with a softball and left the marks. So, okay, so we talked about it was that good decision to go and play baseball in the dark. So things like that. I warned you, and now you're missing a tooth because of it. Um, but in in light of that, um, you also need to set boundaries about their decision. So, for example, um, our boys at around second or third grade, each of them, I want to play piano, I want to take piano lessons. And okay, we can do that, it's a good decision to make. But here's the consequences of your decision. You're gonna have to practice, but also you need to commit for three years. If you're gonna do this, you're gonna have to do it for three years of lessons. Because we wanted to want to waste our money, we wanted at least a solid foundation, so you're gonna have to do it for three years, and then you know that gave them pause to think about it. And then they did choose to do it, they did it for three years. Two of the boys kept on doing it all the way to graduation, and the third one stopped, you know, dropped out, and essentially three years were done, and but took up the drums. College went back and took some piano lessons, you know. So the three years made a difference, but they had that choice ahead of time. Um, so you know, Dad, can I play softball? Or can I play baseball? Okay, well, here's here's the consequences. For us, it was yes, you can play, but we're not gonna do travel teams. Okay, there's some boundaries around that. In Ohio, yes, you can play soccer, but you can't do indoor soccer because there's no way we can get in the snowstorms. You know, we're not driving through snow to get them. So putting boundaries on there. So anything you guys can weigh in on that?

SPEAKER_02 40:19

Impressive that your your one son committed to three years. Three years is a long time. Yeah, well, three years.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

But they might not have known what they were getting into. Well, I'm sure they didn't. We can hold it too then, so um, yeah, but now they all have that foundation, they're all musicians.

SPEAKER_05 40:40

We we had the same thing, but it was more with sports. If they wanted to play a sport and um, like, okay, if this is what you want to do, that's fine. And but you're gonna follow through and to the end of season to the end of season, yeah, whether you like it or not.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yep. You made a commitment, you have to strip with it. Yes, yeah, that's good. So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 41:03

We we just let them do one thing each. Like we wouldn't let them in multiple sports or multiple, you know, they got to pick the one they wanted to do, they got to do the one thing that they wanted to do, and they had to stay through the whole season, but they couldn't do multiples because we just didn't have the bandwidth money.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

They need to know we have limitations too. Yeah, you know, and if you got three or four kids, one one commitment is four for you, you know.

SPEAKER_08 41:34

So it gets that actually helps weed out what they don't like. Obviously, weeds out, but you find that well, it really got joy in this other thing I didn't expect. My son played on teams and wasn't really good. He excelled, blew up in BMX. He was just crowned, crowned, just constantly didn't know it. Right, eventually ended up there.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah, but that one commitment at a time.

SPEAKER_05 42:05

But only one commitment was good because the family was priority, right? That's more than all the sports, and we tried to make it a point to always eat dinner every night. That was the key thing was to eat dinner, always connect every night, sit at the table, no TV, no distractions, and you sit at the table. Um, our daughter-in-law, on a totally different note, she does like a devotional every night where they will pray and then they will sing because they play piano and violin, and then um they'll read a story, ask questions, and then after, and this is right before they go to bed, each one of them has to pray. And each one of them has to ask for forgiveness about something they've done in their day out loud. And so we go through all five of them, you know, every night.

SPEAKER_08 42:57

So they may also get something that they're positive about the right, right? Yeah, and that helps you become a good idea. It's a good learning.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

You had a great day because you made this decision, or you had a rough time because of possibility. So that's great. A lot of things can be done to put a term to that.

SPEAKER_07 43:16

I just want to say on the one thing, uh, the kids doing one thing, again, going back to parent-centered home versus the child-centered home. When the children are out doing all this stuff, the parents are letting them kind of run the show, and then what's suffering there is the marriage. And that is the relationship, the one relationship you don't want to suffer. Everybody's suffering when that suffers. So you think, oh, we're letting our kids do what they want, but you're actually not helping your kids, right? You're hurting your marriage, and um, which will in turn hurt your kids.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

So that only produces irresponsible kids or adults, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

It is really, really easy in my case to worship your child. I to survey a lot, and uh it may not be as big a deal for couples or I don't know, but I especially when you have one kid, it's like you know, the kid starts thinking he's the center there. Yeah, well, partner. Center. I mean, one example is I I got Sam when he was two and a half. I started saving money then when he I had college fund for him that's So when he starts college, we're discussing his college fund, and he said, Well, that's coming out of the key talking like that college fund was just mystery money from the heavens. Finally, I said, you know, I saved that money. That's for me. And now, and he changed his whole attitude. He was like, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

It cost you something to go. And again, we'll talk about this next week. I said Sam was a fairly compliant kid.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Well, he was I don't want to bore you, but he was wild as a kid. I mean, he was a two-year-old boy. He bounced off the walls. He screamed. I mean, he definitely attached to me, but he was wild. Now he, about third grade, something just ticked. He became a very compliant, sweet child. But before then, it wasn't mean, it was just he was a boy. He was a boy.

SPEAKER_06 45:35

Everybody here knows what that's.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

And we'll talk next week about you know the strong-willed child, where all the rules go out the window, but it can still reinforce the decision making that a strong-willed child makes. And you know, this becomes doubly important for the strong will child that you channel them, channel all that energy into the right decisions. Um, just a couple more things, we're running out of time. Um you can always you know be like the me, the engineer, and share um methods of making decisions. Okay, so do I want to get to uh I want to get a skateboard? Okay, well, what are the pros? Let's write a list of pros and cons. And you give them a little bit of technique for doing that. Um, the trickier decisions, there's something called decision analysis. I won't get into that, but um, that may be the high school thing. You know, where are you going to college? Okay, let's do the decision analysis. What things do you have to get out of college? What are your musts? Okay, well, it has to have an engineering program, it has to have so this and that, and then what are your wants? Okay, I want you know a nice campus, or I want a remote campus, or I want to city, you know, all the wants, and then when we look at your musts and wants, we can make an intelligent decision about what's best for you. But that's that's a little bit later on in life, we can do that. Um, but you can start the skills ahead of time with pros and cons and so forth. Decisions only get bigger as they get older. Um one of the things my son did, my oldest son before he went to college, I think it was his between his uh junior and senior year, I think it was, he took a job in a paint shop. And it was basically conveyor belts with things you know hanging on the hooks, and he would help, he didn't spray, he was with these, you know, really rough guys and and you know not good decision makers, you know, it was all drinking, we'll talk about drinking on the weekends, and and he could see what their life was like. And boy, he was committed to college after a semester or after a summer working in that paint shop. So allowing them to make decisions like, sure, you want to work in a place like that. Well, it did have positive effects, you know. So if uh if if you you know you think college is the best thing for your kid, let them let them work a menial job that you know you know somebody who's a drop out of a high school.

unknown 48:09

Although college isn't always the best decision.

SPEAKER_06 48:12

I said nowadays you have to be real careful about that. And I know you most of you guys have young children, so that's like a decade away or eight years. But anyway, things are changing. Who knows what it'll be like?

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Yeah, and I've got a nephew who never went to college, but he he ended up at a uh carpenter wood shop, you know, where they build fine furniture and things like that. Yeah, trade. But a very Christian-owned company, and you know, he's just thriving there. Um, but he's in a good environment. But sometimes letting them taste the bad environment under the safe conditions is good for them. Right, right. Um so yeah, and then uh did I cover everything? Yeah, um, and then it doesn't hurt to make a list for your kids. You know, we we never did this, but a list? Yeah, a list of goals that your your kids should have. So you know, by by age eight, I want them to be able to decide when they want when they're gonna do their homework. By age 12, I want them to be able to manage their homework completely, you know, things like that. What goals do you have? That's and how can you start building towards those those goals? You know, so that's important too, though I'm getting to you never thinking that far in advance. Um, did you guys ever set kind of goals? I mean, this works spiritually too, you know, um, and it's probably something we should do as a you know for our youth as well. You know, by the time they graduate, I want them, they should be able to have the costles creed memorized.

unknown 49:51

They should know the rules. They should, you know, things that they should be practicing devotion.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

So you didn't but if you don't make a goal, you got nothing to aim for. So um so did you guys ever set goals for for life for your kids?

SPEAKER_06 50:09

Keep them out of jail. It was more missional and yeah, of living their life for the Lord, and also again, strong marriage, modeling that that both of our sons highly desire traditional marriage too. I mean, and at that, you know, but in this world it's kind of weird to have two sons who say, I want to provide for my wife so she doesn't have work so they can raise our children. They both love that and want that. That's been their goal, and I think it was because we did that and and they saw the sacrifices we made to do that. I'm not saying any criticism of everybody's doubled income because boy, you need it now, but just saying I think there they saw more of also our service to the Lord. They both love, you know, want to be participating in all ministry things. So those are the eternal things. All the other stuff is great, but I mean we blew it, believe me, we could give you more stories of failure then. But the foundation, because of those parenting classes and through our sanctification work through counseling and marriage, being in marriage counseling, most of our marriage and marriage classes helped us keep it about relation, relationship with the Lord and each other, and then all the all these things will be added to you. You know, I mean the kingdom of God first. That's the priority.

SPEAKER_07 51:45

Yeah, that was the focus for me, it was more missional, you know, um doing what God tells you to do. You know, and we'll talk about that next week about the strong will. You know, God gave my son a determinative will, and so I early began speaking into him. God's gonna have you do things that he won't have other people do because you're gonna do whatever God says, and no one will stop you because of that will. And that is true, that was true, and so recognizing what your children have and speaking into that, so as far as the decision for us was, you know, it was all about honoring God, obeying God, being what God's called you to do. And being an entrepreneur, they probably got a lot of. They both don't even want to ever do traditional work.

SPEAKER_06 52:40

Yeah, so he's been an entrepreneur for 40 years.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

You're preparing them for a toll to call them telling you, you know, you're good now, but in the future you're gonna have to make big decisions. Yeah, you're gonna have to decide what God's calling you to. So that's all part of that. Let's start now, you know. Yeah, so just just uh to wrap things up, a couple things, you know, and this might be some your homework assignment, I think, is to make a little list of things based on your child's age and ability. You know, so if they're if they're really little, young, it's like, okay, I will let them choose colors what to wear. You know, wear the pink dress or the blue dress, you know, things like that.

unknown 53:24

Um, you know, mac and cheese or nuggets when you're out to dinner, things like that. Or broccoli or strike.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

At home, it's not gonna be necessarily that. You know, at home it's gonna be take and relieve it decision. Because you're you're not gonna cater, you know, you're not you're not the restaurant, you know. You make one meal and you stick to it. Um, okay, let's choose a book to read. Or look over to the library, pick out your own book, kind of thing. Yeah, let's do it. How would you like to celebrate your birthday? And that's a good decision. The parameter might be a bunch of we're doing it at home.

unknown 54:01

You know, that's a boundary.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

We're having a home birthday party. We're not gonna have to pay for you know chucky cheese, but what would you like to do for your birthday? Oh, okay. I'd like to do an obstacle course, you know, the kids obstacle courses, boxes and whatever. Um so, yeah, so the birthday celebrations. Um, you know, of course, would you like to walk to bed or would you like to be carried to bed?

SPEAKER_06 54:26

But you're going to bed.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yeah, that's probably that's good. So um elementary, you know, they might okay, choose your outfit today. Just you know, whatever you're wearing or where. If they really mismatch, what's gonna happen? Kids will make fun of them. It won't happen again. You know, you can let them out growing up, okay. Let them do it. You know, I see some going smiles. Um choose when you're gonna do your home. You know, it's gotta get done, but you're gonna decide when it's gonna get done. Um let's make dinner for mom. What are you gonna make? Choose a meal that you'd like to cook, you know, things like that. They're more capable of that. Teams, you know, manage their school assignments completely, um, manage their time, you know, if they're gonna do a part-time job or whatever, but you've got to coach them, but uh, what extracurricular activities you're gonna get involved with. Um, give them money and let them buy their own clothes, things like that. And then, of course, when they're teenagers, you've got to start steering decisions for what classes you're gonna take this semester. You know, you've got to see the AP class or not, you know, that's what choices. Um, where you're gonna work, choose it, choose a job. Um, and of course, where you're gonna plan. So, you know, make that your homework cycle this week is okay, what were things are we gonna help them to decide or let them decide? All time so they can't let them talk about the consequences. Quick time for thoughts, you guys want to examine the panel a little?

SPEAKER_08 55:56

No, I have one thing to say about decision making. My kids learned bad decisions from me. God's grace saved our entire family. In their teen years, I stepped away from the church and I did not live like a Christian at all. I've said this before, that if somebody would take a snapshot of me in those years, you'd never even know that I had any faith at any time in my life. My kids lived through that in their teens. But God's grace was still working in the family to save them. Where they are far better parents than I was. Maybe not her, she's always been good. But uh those decisions, bad decisions that they saw. I wasn't making the bad decisions, not that they made good decisions, so even as bad parents, God's grace is still working to have kids.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

So again, I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go. I will counsel you with my eye upon you. So, you know, when they look towards God, when they look towards the Lord, what they see is you. So you're yeah.

SPEAKER_07 57:22

Well, good decisions start from their lead, you know, it's leadership, and every bad decision I made stemmed out of me not being connected to the mind. 100% of the time. It wasn't just some of the time. So the best decision you can make for your family and your children and helping them make decisions is be connected to the mind. 100%. That is the best thing you can do for your marriage and your children, and every time we crashed and burned, right here, I wasn't connected. 100% of the time.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Rick while you're on the soapbox, you want to pray us out.

SPEAKER_07 58:08

Lord, uh thank you that you love us, that your grace goes in front of us, behind us, underneath us. When we're flat on our face, your grace carries us. Lord, we need your grace in our parenting. We need your grace in our marriages. God, we need to make your grace to even empower us to make good decisions, to forgive, to surrender, to accept, to trust you. So, Father God, I thank you for these children. They're your children, you're their father. There's only one perfect father and you're it. It's not us. There's no perfect parent but you. So, Father God, help us to shape and draw our children to you and to present them to you, God. You parent them, you lead them, you guide them. Help us to honor you, submit, surrender our lives to you. In Christ's name I pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

I just dated myself because you guys have no idea what a soapbox is.

SPEAKER_06 59:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

No, it's actually funny.

SPEAKER_05 59:36

What should I say again?

SPEAKER_06 59:38

I mean, I I knew the term that just you should Google the original. I feel like I've taken imagery of that now.

unknown 59:47

Okay, so you can carefully. Oh, yes, they're reported. Actually, if you have these.