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Hickory Grove Presbyterian Church
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Hickory Grove Presbyterian Church
[Sunday School] Practical Parenting 5
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Just press record, that's it?
unknownNo, this one.
SPEAKER_05Done. I love it. Hey. So um John is John is um John is backpacking with kids, so I'm I'm was gonna teach today in Strong World Child was gonna be last week, but I mentioned to him that my wife and I are experts on the Strong World Children. We're not experts, but we've been that this is this is one I can teach with my eyes closed. I'm just telling you guys, I can I can do this. Just so that you know, we got this. Um and so uh but but before we start, let's uh let's start with prayer. And uh Jeremy, you want to lead us a prayer?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, sure. Lord, thank you that you've given those who believe in Christ the right to be called children of God. And uh let us not only learn about being parents, but also about being children uh how we can be good children of our Father in heaven. His name be great. Amen.
SPEAKER_05Amen. Well, hey guys, look at this. Come on in!
SPEAKER_08George, do you want to learn about a strong child? Okay, all the something's like okay.
SPEAKER_05That is more than okay. That's more than okay.
SPEAKER_04How many more people would like some coffee because we're gonna make some? I have some.
SPEAKER_05Thank you, Suzanne.
unknownI made four.
SPEAKER_05Hey guys! Sam and Maria. Yes, Sam has been coffee. Sam Maria? Yes, I'm Rick. Where are you guys from? Seattle. Wow, great.
SPEAKER_09Have you moved here or you've been moved or just moved?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Fantastic.
SPEAKER_00How'd you hear about us?
SPEAKER_09Welcome.
SPEAKER_00Uh searching online.
SPEAKER_05I love this. Praise God. I love it. This is my favorite chair.
SPEAKER_02Um good thing. All right, no problem. I did not get that on. There we go.
SPEAKER_05Well, we're talking about the strong-willed child today. So um don't we all? So and you got here, we just we just prayed, we just started. So um one thing, just to for definition, we all have a will. Right? We've all got a will. And uh Luther says we're in bondage to that will, right? We don't have a free will, we're not free not to sin, right? None of us have the free, we are bound in sin. And uh, I love how Vodhi Bacum talks about these, they're not little angels, they're vipers and diapers, right? They're vipers and a diaper. Um there. So um we all it can be mislabeling, you know, the strong-willed can can come off like a label. And the reality is we all got a strong will, right? You know, we all have strong wills. There are different temperaments. Our kids will have different temperaments, and uh, some kids just have can be more challenging, their temperaments can be more challenging. So we'll talk about that today. That's what we're going to kind of look at, kind of discuss um what some of those challenges are, and why God is sovereign in that. God gives us temperaments, God will give us things and make us a certain way, and he does it on purpose. God doesn't make mistakes. So he might give someone a strong will. For instance, he gave our son a very strong will, and once he decides to do something, it's gonna, he's gonna do it, right? Well, God put that in him because God is gonna tell, and I told I would tell him this, God's gonna tell you to do something, but he won't tell other people, but he'll tell you to do it because he knows you're not gonna let anything stop you. He went, lived in a church in Albany, New York, where less than 3% of the people are evangelical Christians. It's the least evangelized area in the United States. He lived in a church, knocked on doors and evangelized, did what nobody would want to do because God told him to do it. And so he's not gonna let anybody stop him. And that that will, those are the those are the people that will change the world, are those people who have that will. So it's important for us to shape that will, but not break it, right? I don't want to break my kid's will, but I want to shape it. But God's given him this thing, and when when that connects in and they're plugged in, and they're gonna go, I'm gonna go to, I'm going to China, I'm going to, I'm going to Africa. You know, I'm going to do stuff that no one will do because God told me to do it, and I'm not going to let anybody or anything stop me. That's that will. That's the power of that will. But in our lives, we can see the challenge of that will. Let's talk about some of the challenges. Anyone want to mention just your own personal experience? Some of your own challenges with struggling with will with your children. And I know you got them. Yes, yes, ma'am.
SPEAKER_04Maggie will ask for something a hundred times until she breaks us. Can I please go? No, not right now, Maggie. Not right now, Maggie. Five minutes. Can't peace go? Shouldn't forget. Until we get in. Uh huh.
SPEAKER_05She's smart. They're smart. They figure out what works. Anyone else? Some of your own stories? We'd love to hear it. Come on.
SPEAKER_09Some of them have babies, but you can still see the will and I think doing something that Wade has been told not to do or not right now, and attempting to do it independently where it might be unsafe. But it's like I have to solve this problem or I have to do this. The reason I said not to do it was because you might get hurt, or you were most likely going to get hurt. He got pretty scraped up going down the scooter on our hill. I said, Don't go full speed, and he said, I'll be fine, and took off and practically got pretty scraped up. So just he's like, Thanks for the advice, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
SPEAKER_05Sometimes they need that. Especially a guy. Sometimes he's gotta get scraped up.
SPEAKER_04Natural consequences, that's John, I'm saying. Yes. A lot of hard lessons.
SPEAKER_05A natural consequence. That's how our both our sons, that's how they wanted to learn. Was I'm going to figure, I'm I'll I'll find this out myself. They wanted to learn that. And they both, especially my oldest son, is a strong entrepreneur spirit. You know, I'm gonna go figure this out. And that's just kind of what God gave him. But you see that as a young child. You see that, so again, shaping, shaping that will is our was what we're gonna talk about today. Shaping the will and not breaking the will. Anyone else? Any other before we go on, any other stories or comments you want to make about your own personal?
unknownI was probably a charming child.
SPEAKER_03I can't imagine that my mom would tell me that uh she just kind of gave up and trying to get me to do things because I just wouldn't do it.
SPEAKER_04So there's that. My kids can buy it, honestly.
SPEAKER_08Jen, you want to share it? Suzanne and I are laughing at each other because we're like sisters, but um you can imagine me. My mom told me in my 40s, of our five children, in a loving way, you were the most challenging. So thank you. I can imagine that. Rick could attest to it, right? Our husbands certainly know no comment. Strong will spouse-willed spouse, yeah. No comment. Yes, and our marriage plug.
SPEAKER_05How to be married for 40 years, right? No comment. You got to know what's comment and what not to. Anyway, we're all have varieties of so God has given uh children different dispositions. And we see it when you have more than one child, you'll see it, you'll notice it. We've been talking about that. Every kid's different, every child's different. Uh, our firstborn child, very compliant. We would go out to eat, but he would just sit there. He was just so happy to just be with us. We'd go out to eat with a couple, and he would just be sitting there, and the people go, I can't believe.
SPEAKER_08We thought we were the best parents.
SPEAKER_05How amazing your children. You guys are amazing parents. You guys are so great. I can't believe he just sits there, he colors, he's so happy. He was just content just to be in the room, just to be there. No, and then we get number two.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I see some relating faces here, right? You think very similar.
SPEAKER_05Well, tell me about your number two.
SPEAKER_02Well, uh, he we have more trouble, he doesn't want to do anything hard, which is stupid. Yeah, right. So almost we've with Marston, you kind of have a weak will. I mean, we don't tell him that, but we think he has a weak will sometimes, and getting him to do hard things is actually hard. Not not do things, but too please. Yeah, but same, our first was it's very difficult. Yeah, the second, he has a PhD, so that we realize that came into play.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Same with our same same same with us. And we couldn't get him to sit still for any meal ever, and we it just we'd go to Wendy's and he would just, he would, he would stand up and eat and go, and he's very social, and God has used this in his in his ministry, and he would go to table and table to table and just would introduce himself to everyone, right? Hi, I'm Matthew, right? And he would just, and they would just think he was the sweetest thing, and we're going, well, you know, we let him do it. But anyway, he did. But very two completely different kids. So um the first on we've got some Dobson stuff here. He talks about spotting the power struggle triggers. And we were listening to Kathy Cook on Folks on the Family this week, and she's talking about character rather than just behavior. So just instead of do what I say because I say it, it's building a character. And there can be underlying motivations that are driving some of our kids' behavior. For instance, just you know, if a child looks like they're lazy, they don't want to do hard things, is there a fear of failure? Right? Is there something that they're so then we want to look at the character behind that, right? And pray about it. God, what is underneath this? Right? And instead of just do what I say, which there were times, I'll be honest, we got exasperated, and do what I we probably did lean more on the do what I say than we should have. I will, I will, I will admit that. I will let me let me rephrase that. I probably leaned more on do what I say just out of exasperation, and looking back now, I wish I had had more time to dig down deeper. Okay, what is what is feeding this? What's behind this? I have a feel fear of failure, I don't want to do anything hard because I might fail. Right? You know, uh there's an insecurity of there. I don't know. You know, we pray about that. God, what is this? What's driving this struggle we're having right now? So for us, our first response is we want to be calm. They're exerting this will. We want to be calm. Calmness helps us to tap into our intelligence, right? We're not gonna get on their level. And um, we've got some scriptures here. Proverbs 22, 6. Start children off on the way, they should go, and even when they are old, they won't turn from it. Then in 1 Corinthians 16, 14, do everything in love, and we've heard this one many times here. Ephesians 6, 4. And I think this really, really applies to this to a child who has one exerting in their disposition will, willful, willfulness. Fathers, do not exasperate your children. Instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. So again, back to we're not we're talking about character, the training and instruction of the Lord. We're not going to exasperate them, just do what I say. Right? I'm looking for your obedience, which we are, and it's and it's important that they're obedient, but I want to focus on character, building their character. You know, when you shared your toy with your sister, when you gave your cookie to that kid who didn't have one, that was a great thing. That really honored God, that made God happy. When you do that, and you are so good at that. I I recommend speaking into your children. Identity. God gave you a strong will because God's going to do, use you to do things that he wouldn't with anyone else. God gave you a creative, that is so creative. God gave you a way of looking at things, and he's going to use that for his glory. That's very kind. God made you a kind person. He's going to use that. You have something very special God has called you to. Sometimes they'll say, What is it? Well, that's what you've got to find out. But speaking that identity into them, you are gifted. You have, and you recognize what they're good at. We had one son who was creative, we had one son who was very social with a strong will. But we would speak into that. God is going to do these things in you. God's going to tell you to do something, and you'll do it. You're not going to let anything stop you. And that's what we want. And that's, and God made you this way. So by encouraging, speaking into them, that's a powerful tool for them. Because kids, and we see it in our culture right now, they're all struggling with identity. They're all struggling. Listen, your kids are going to go to high school. It's rough. And you can right now start speaking that into their life so that when they get into high school, they're not worried about who they are. They've got a clear understanding of who they are. Because dad and mom told me who I am and empowered me to walk as a man of God. You know, this is to start seeing themselves this way. You're called by God. God put his spirit in you, and you're going to do great things for the Lord, right? Speaking that into him, that's powerful. So, our first response to this to this will is we want to be calm. Everybody's going, how do you do that? Does anybody have a comment on that?
SPEAKER_08How are we calm? So we stay calm, right?
SPEAKER_05Here it says, your child may have an outburst, but instead of immediately correcting behavior, you can try understanding what he sees and wants. Help him learn to better interpret what he's experiencing and more effectively pursue what he wants. Your calmness helps calm a chaotic, strong-willed child's brain. Make your calmness contagious and not your child's emotions. Again, we're we're focusing on character. Okay, what is this? What's underneath this? They're breaking down right now. What's going on? What's this all about? Right? And for us to understand. So being calm. Have you ever had a struggle being calm? Anyone want to share about that? What makes being calm challenging? For us, all of us. Anybody?
SPEAKER_02I think taking it personally.
SPEAKER_03Not taking it personally. That's good. Yeah. That's true. Make it about me. It's hard to be impervious, especially as they become creating. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Lack of control.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Yes, we did.
SPEAKER_01Just look at your husband.
SPEAKER_08I was strong.
SPEAKER_01Yay, there she is.
SPEAKER_08No. We need your advice.
SPEAKER_03Just kidding.
SPEAKER_12I think for us, our kids get so loud. Everyone will just be yelling. Yeah. Whoever's upset will be yelling, and then our younger son will start yelling. Um we'll just everything just get so loud and it's hard to just bring down the volume sometimes.
SPEAKER_08Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Especially you said you have boys. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah. There's testosterone going on.
SPEAKER_08Amplifies with every child.
SPEAKER_05I mean it's it's it's right.
SPEAKER_08I mean that's going issues.
SPEAKER_05Right? And they're all they're all in character.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_08Well, that's how you're talking about.
SPEAKER_05I'm Darth Vader, I'm in character right now. Right?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05And so sometimes that a response, hey God, hey.
SPEAKER_11That's that's great.
SPEAKER_08That's that's that's a good tip too. That's common down.
unknownWe should try that.
SPEAKER_04I try to put it in the quiet button, say that if you're if you're whispering and they can't hear you, then they're gonna think, I can't hear. Yeah, why can't I? I gotta quiet it so I can hear me. I haven't applied it.
SPEAKER_05Well, I'll I'm just gonna we shouldn't talk about this. I'll be honest about, and I love your your response. You know, I I'll be self-centered. And it's like, okay, we're gonna get real here. You're messing up my day right now. You know, I've had a hard day, I've I've worked all day, I've done, I've done all this work around the house, and you're kind of getting in my way right now with all this noise. Right? I mean it's it's it's this uh kind of about me. You know, it's it's selfish. That's why we talk about being uh connected right here to the vine. I gotta be plugged in. I crash and burn in my marriage. We talk about this in marriage class all the time. I crash and burn in my marriage when I'm not plugged in 100% of the time, every crash and burn 100% is I'm not it's I am not plugged in. Every time. Me, husband, if I'm not doing this, every every time we've gone bad, it's been because I haven't been plugged in. And I think it's and I can say the same with my kids. When I lose it, have lost it, been there, done that with my kids. I am so freaking tired of you, what you're doing right now, you're really bugging me, right? You're bugging me. It's it's it's a it's it's I have lost the sense of myself with who I am with Christ. I I've lost it. So I'm not plugged in.
SPEAKER_08I think a key factor too is, and this is why it's so great you're all here, is we have to have a plan and we have to be intentional with our parenting. A lot of, I mean, at least our generation was a little uh you know it's a thing you figure out as you go, but you all being here is this great. We're gleaning, you know, wisdom from each other, and then having a plan of when this happens, this is our response in unity, and it so yeah, great tip from Suzanne, and because it's really true. When when we're calm, we set the tone. Of course, it's very different with boy. I we get the boy thing. We have two sons, and our son has three sons, so and it gets loud and you know mom check the reading was uh quite a handful, right? And then I mean, really, seriously, we do need if you guys want to share is there about another fifth babies and helped you when volume goes up, and how do you respond with calmness? I mean confidence? That's the that's our intention, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was a strong little child myself, and I see a lot of that in my oldest child. Sure. Uh she actually calls me out a lot of my stuff that I'm doing today, so she likes to humble me. Um I think there's uh you know there's an opportunity to be um you know strong and firm in your discipline with them, but then it's also aligning them to Exert their strong will in a constructive way. I haven't been here for the full length of this talk, but I do think that you know having strong will is not a bad thing as long as you're doing it in a way that's you know reflective of price-like attributes. So excellent. Trying to channel that would be the goal. Don't know if I succeed there every time I uh have to discipline her, but that's to do the right goal.
SPEAKER_11I think there's moments where we just are like fighting back because they're fighting for some control, right? And then there's moments where like they're just insane because they've not outside whatever, yeah. And we just need to like go outside and they need to have their moment outside or reset mentally so that I can, and then bring them back in and be like, okay, let's restart. Because sometimes they're just bouncing off the wall. Our son, for sure, he needs that stimulation of being out or physical, yeah. And our oldest daughter, she's crazy too. They kind of are, and there's moments where I know it's like, okay, this is like they're falling for some kind of control. So I think we try to find a constructive way to give her a job and be like, this is your responsibility, you're in charge of this for the family. This is what you need to plan out or do, whether it's something I just like make up, like you're gonna be what are we having for dinner next Monday? We need to find how figure out what we're doing, what we need to cook, how we're gonna cook it. And then she's focused on that because this is now her whole. That's great. But finding, but it's hard, you know, because I'm also like this as the old guy here, one of the old guys.
SPEAKER_01This kid know these indicators now. I wish I'd had that as a young parent, but I would have been able to identify that, oh, this is a strong will, that's not just disobedience. With my son, I just you know I really looked at him as being disobedient. But as he grew, and then hearing these stories now, oh, he had a strong will. His will has done bad for him, but it's also done very good for him because he's succeeded in very challenging environments, and he's done stuff that's that only a strong will could have done that. But as a kid, I took that will as being, he wanted to do what he wanted to do, but you're being disobedient. And I had a class like this to identify. Oh, okay. Maybe there's something else going on. Let me look and then see it because he grew. Right. Okay, there's that will. Maybe I can channel you. I wasn't paying attention that way.
SPEAKER_05And again, especially with it with a boy, and with women, with girls too, speaking that identity into them is so key. So that when they do grow up and get to the party and all the booze is there, they know who they are. And by being strong-willed, they're not gonna let anybody influence them. They're not going to follow anybody, you know, just because you're doing it, I don't need to do it, right? Because they've got that, so that's where the strong will helps them. But by by having that identity spoken into them that they know who they are in Christ. They know that they are gods, they know they're chosen by Him, they know they're set apart for Him. That this is who I am, this is who you are. So it's that identity, it's it's uh again character. Character. We're kind, we're loving, we're obeying God. We're gonna do that. And they're seeing that in the home, too. So we're we'll we want to be clear, we'll keep moving here. We want to be clear. Clarity helps reinforce boundaries. Janet talked about boundaries, having very set, sure, clear boundaries so that they understand what the deal is. I'm not allowed to jump up on the table. I can't jump on the table, right? It's very clear. Rather than spend your time and energy arguing and nagging them, you have clear, reinforced boundaries. Tell your child the rules and consequences, good and bad, and reinforce what you've discussed. It's a great idea to have your child play an active part in developing rules and consequences, letting them be a part of that. You can use important phrases, what did you what and you can also use this important phrase, what did you hear me saying? Take time to make sure that it's communicated clearly. You understand this. Oh, I thought you meant I couldn't jump on that table. You didn't say I couldn't jump on this table. You know, they just need to be clear, right? It needs to be clear and then consistent. And this is what really helps with our children is the unity that Jan was talking about. Consistency helps strong-willed children learn that being in charge is not up for grabs. Well, it's not always easy. The parents must be united in their approach. You've got to be supporting each other, having a game plan, having uh a system in place where this is what we're gonna do, this is how we're gonna do it, this is the uh, you know, the the if then when. If you do this, you know, when you do this, then then this is what's gonna happen. Very clear, and everybody's on the same page about it. And you guys have already discussed that ahead of time. And and mom is going to support dad. Hey mom, can I have a cookie right now? No. Hey dad, can I have a cookie right now? You know, what did your mom say? She said, you know, no, and then you can no, you know, you can't have a, you know. Otherwise, the child realizes quickly that authority and power are wavering and divided. Strong-willed children respond to their competence and and uh to competence and competence. We talked about earlier in this class, and some of you weren't here, so we'll say it again. The main core center of the family is the marriage. The marriage is the center of the family. Your children are not the center of your family. Your children are a welcome addition to your family. But this is the key. This is the center, and they need to know that. They need to know mom comes first. This is this is a first. We're having our time right now on the couch, we're having some couch time, we're talking, you have to go play in your room, have some have room time. Another great thing to do with your kids. Start off with playpen time. Uh you can start with 15 minutes, go up to 30. Did we go up to an hour? How far did we go with playpen time? So you have one or two toys, not a lot. Not a lot of toys in the playpen. And what they're doing is they're learning to self-focus. They're learning to self-stimulate, to be able to focus on a toy and play with that toy and to be okay by themselves in that playpen. And then as they get out of the playpen, we have room time. And they're in their room and they're reading their books or their whatever, but they are focused on what they're doing in the room, which gives you some time to go do the dishes or whatever, but they're not.
SPEAKER_08Has anybody done any of that things like that? Like they taught us that in our classes. That was a lifesaver for me. We put uh I put a gate, you know, kids gate up and it turned on some sweet music for them, and they had it built up to yeah, to like an hour of them being in the room playing, and it taught them a lot of creativity. I know that's where David learned a lot of things. He builds stuff and make things, and I think that really inspired his creativity. Is that what he I didn't have to be stimulating him all the time? I mean, that's kind of a I think is that an issue for some of you? The world kind of says you're the entertainment for your for your children. You have to keep them busy.
SPEAKER_09Wade's an only child, and so I am as built-in pointes, we are as built-in pointes, and that's one thing that I think we're trying to do now is like you have to learn how to entertain yourself. Yes, that's really important. And just kids in general these days, like they have access to quick entertainment, constant entertainment. Looking back on my childhood, like I had siblings, and we were outside, we were getting stuff in our rooms, we were doing things creatively and having to solve problems without my parents doing that. So trying to recreate that now is a lot harder because we've got YouTube and Disney and video games. Right. But I can't I tell Wade too, I'm like, this is good for your brain. I know like you don't want to go play by yourself right now, but this is really good for your brain. Absolutely. I tell him Caesar goes and fills in his room all the time.
SPEAKER_04Like, yeah, he just goes, he almost does it just for a little quiet. Sure. This is too much, I'm leaving. Yeah. I'm being this space. So tell him Caesar's like, give him an example. That's good.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Well with the video games with what's going on right now, it's the stimulation is so intense. And it's it's it's instant, it's immediate gratification, it's doing all the thinking for them. And I noticed our kids would get aggressive when they'd sit there and play after a while. They they're aggressive, so it changed their behavior. So I think it's really crucial that you work starting in the crib. Starting in in the crib with with um not a whole bunch of stuff, two or three toys, let them explore those toys and really learn how to focus. It's important to help our kids learn to focus because right now everything is about them not having to focus. Everything is given to them, and they don't even have to think about it. So teaching your children to focus is key. So having that room time, having some time in a that's gonna help them also navigate some of that will, because a lot of that, as you guys are saying, they're just they're just going crazy. Or they've been aggressive because they're they've been sitting there doing this, and now they're just kind of all wound up and aggressive. And so that's that's another great thing that you guys can be consistent, clear, and consistent on. You're going to be in your room, we're gonna set this timer, we're gonna play some music, here are your books, here are your trains, here are your whatever, your Legos. You're going to focus and play with these things, no screens, for 30 minutes. Then it goes to 40, then it goes to 50, then it goes to an hour. I think I think an hour is is good.
SPEAKER_04Huh? I think you have to frame it though it's not being punishment. Right, exactly. I think a lot of parents or families are, you know, we take the screen away and you have to go do this different, and it's a it's framed as a punishment, but it's not meant to be a punishment. Right. This this concept is not meant to be a punishment. This is a tool, and every and it brings down the volume maybe in the home.
SPEAKER_05And for you guys, it's easier if you can start in a crib, right? It's just something we do. You know, you start it in the crib, it's just something we do, right? And then then that gives you time, right? They can go in there and they're learning how to focus that you can go get a few things done, right? Which is important. You need that time too. So um, again, uh so but consistency is so clear. They uh want security. When mom and dad are the center, and they're not the center, when they're the center, they're insecure. When they're in control, they're actually insecure. When you're in control, when you're the center, that actually builds security in them. Oh, my mom and dad are together. They're they're the ones, they're that's the main relationship here, and I fit in that way, that actually builds security. So when there's a consistency, uh and the parent and the mom and dad have the right structure have the right, what's the word I'm trying to use? Unity. Unity, okay, yeah. But when that's in order, that actually builds security in your kids, and that actually helps with the strong will as well. So being consistent.
SPEAKER_10Monitoring when when my kids were younger, I used to go in the room and sit on the floor and play with them for a little while and get them going to them, like, okay, mom's gonna go and do this. Good. You can play in here. I wouldn't um put up any anything, I just say, now you know, you guys can play it. It gives them time to be content. Content with what they have. That's good. And we didn't do a lot of, I mean, we had VCRs back then, you know, and every now and then it was a treat to watch a movie. They got to see something. But it kind of started them young, you know, learning contentment with what they have. Good, yeah. Excellent. They were very good at that.
SPEAKER_05So, again, with what we're talking about here, follow through. Strong-willed children want to know that you mean what you say. They want to know that you mean what you say. So they respect and trust resolute authority. So when you follow through, it's as if you're putting money in the bank of trust between you and your child. Following through is so important. They're seeing consistency. Husbands, love mom. Be consistent in front of them. Let them see what a good marriage looks like. I'm gonna tell you right now, you can do all these things that we're talking about in parenting. You can do it by the book, and you can do it right. But if this thing isn't right on, your kids are gonna grow up with problems. Facts.
SPEAKER_08And that's why our kids have something wrong with that.
SPEAKER_05When this isn't together, this is key, this is core, this is the center. I want to love my wife as Christ loved the church, and my wife wants to respect me, and we're showing that, we're modeling that in our home. That is the goal. You can and will mess up on this a lot. You're gonna mess up on this, I promise you. You're not gonna do all this. But if you get this right, they're gonna be okay. They're gonna be okay. If you get this right, they will. I'm telling you. They will. God willing, right? They will. They'll be alright.
SPEAKER_11I would say as a as a kid, I was seeing they were my parents, these were my parents, just really pointing at these random people like this woman was probably so good at that. Um, they did many different things, but the consistency between the two of them was so wild. I remember like my friends. I was like, if I went up to my dad and said, Can I have a sleepover? He wouldn't even entertain the question. He would say, Did you ask your mom? And if I had the audacity to say yes, then he would say, What did she say? And why are you asking me? Where are you? And then you were just punished, like it was or not punished, but disciplined, right? Yeah, because they were such a unit. However, as we grew up and got older, we had so many friends that wanted to be at our house, and it's because they could tell that was like a function where the dad led the way he needed to. You could not disrespect my mom, but at the same time, you could tell um they were such a team, you would not be able to break that team. Like me and my sister and my brother became our own team because we knew like they're on their own team, but you also knew like our house is not gonna fall apart at the end of the day. You can't, you cannot, as a child, have the like ability to manipulate them against each other, if that makes sense. So, like as a kid, I could interpret like okay, I might be able to get away with some things, but ultimately they know somehow everything that's happening, and I can't do anything at all. So it would give me this sense of safety to where it was like they're gonna stick together always, and so I have the complete opposite experience.
SPEAKER_00My parents were not consistent, uh, they they didn't have unity and they did not follow through. So I learned at a young age to not respect authority and to um as a strong old child make up my own kind of rules and follow them. And um, only until I kind of entered into this family and saw that was I able to kind of start to you know respect authority and understand why we respect authority and um really then use that as an opportunity to say, like, do I want to raise my kids like I was raised, or do I want to raise my kids like she was raised? Um I will say you know we didn't go fully Rosat's side, we did we definitely took some of the other side, so it's always like trying to blend the most the best of both worlds. Um but being 100%, if you're not consistent, if you don't have unity as a married couple, and if you don't follow through, which is hard, then you're going to lose them. Um there's been a few times where I've said, hey, if you don't if you don't do this, then we're not gonna do this really cool thing that I want to do. Right. And um because of that, I had to lose out on the opportunity, or we no, the rest of the kids have to lose out on the opportunity because one kid messed it up, and so you know, you have to follow through even when it hurts.
SPEAKER_11He'll say no or yes, and I'm like the opposite, you know? We all do that. And then you're like, oh okay, and then I have to in front of the kids about that's what your dad said.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, I have no idea why you said that or what was going on, but debriefs are good.
unknownDebriefs are good.
SPEAKER_08And tell everybody how many children you have.
SPEAKER_00Um four and then five, you got five. Four point.
SPEAKER_05Five, one just hasn't come out yet.
SPEAKER_08I mean, I mean, you have a lot of money as well, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06We're not experts. We make a lot of mistakes, and I think that's normal for parents. Okay. So you promise we're not gonna get it perfect, because I'm simple, so I'm gonna make mistakes. And I've noticed in Calm and a lot of these, you know, I'll I might use a harsh tone of voice with Wade because he's used a harsh-tone voice with me. And I'm like, well, that's kind of ridiculous, because now I'm I'm saying, stop being harsh with your words, but I'm being harsh with my words. And then I have to go back and apologize and say, you know, the thing I was being telling you not to do, I did that same thing, I'm really sorry. So can you speak to the fact, and I'll say in my experience, there were kind of two sets of rules, the like rules that governed my mom and the rules that govern the kids, and they weren't the standard wasn't the same, so it's kind of like how do you not teach your how do you follow the same rules that you want your kids to follow, and does that make a difference when you make mistakes and being imperfect? Like, how do you model what do you do when you do it wrong?
SPEAKER_05You know, repentance, which is exactly what you did, and apologize. But you're you're leading, you're guiding, you're giving them an example, you're showing them what a man of God is is supposed to look like, right? His understanding of what a Christian is, of what Jesus is, is you. And so you want to model that. So daddy was wrong. I sinned. Will you forgive me? I was really wrong to do that. And you know, we all, and it's a great teaching opportunity. You know, God uh sent Jesus because we sin. And we need him, and Jesus was perfect, and we need to ask, and God forgives us when we ask him. And I'm so thankful for that, but will you forgive me? You know? Yes, Daddy, you know, and then we can go to Jesus as well and ask him. You know, so it's it's there's always look for these gospel moments. Always look for gospel moments with your kids.
SPEAKER_08Did Jeff can Jeff speak in us to that? About I just say, you know, you do about what you're doing.
SPEAKER_05Darling, actually, I need to run out of time.
SPEAKER_08We talked earlier in another class about teaching respect without yelling, right? That's is that kind of what I'm hearing you say? Maybe all kinds of things.
SPEAKER_06That's one example.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, because I know what they taught that taught us that we didn't necessarily learn that you, you know, it's when a child's disrespecting you and talking with attitude, it's yeah, it's easy to go, don't talk like that to me. It's to keep it firm and strong. Not giving it back to them, but it's like, oh no, I'm hearing disrespect in your tone, and you may not speak to me. And then, yeah, and it depends on the age, you explain why. Again, God has given me as authority over you, because mommy and daddy know what's best for you the way God knows what's best for me. And you know, so again, at Wade's age, you can explain that. When they're little, like our grandkids will sass at us. And I mean, I was raised by kids very my dad was a little more authoritarian than authoritative. Remember that from our first class? The goal is authoritarian, not authoritarian, but authoritative, that we are to be authoritative to our children. As you all are great examples, you know, but we we can't give it back to them, even though you want to sometimes. It's like, don't you sass at me? Especially when they're really attitude, especially, you know, he has a strong-willed person, wants to, but you know, immediate consequence for it too. So keeping it calm, firm, and an immediate consequence. Like that's a timeout. And then then maybe the discussion is later when they've calmed down. That's a timeout. Oh no, you can't slap grandma. I mean, that's what a little two-year-old did that to me. I said, oh no. And I picked, you know, first I gave him a little whack, put him in his crib, and then we talked about it. He got it. Well, he got it. If you could train a dog, right? Some people are like, oh well, they're infants. Like, oh no. That will you see immediately when they're little. So you do have to get on it right away. And a lot of parenting philosophy now is children grow on their own, and you you you know, you give them and you watch them and you give them what they need, and instead of you being in charge. I mean, and reference tight. So, yeah, if you want to finish.
SPEAKER_05We've got five minutes left, so I want to go through these last three in this five minutes. Then so follow through. Follow through. Now we're gonna delegate some control. Give your child opportunities to earn an appropriate measure of decision-making privilege in your house. So when you've got that strong old child, you can delegate some some control, like uh instead of fighting over what dress they're gonna wear before that you know for church or for school, maybe the day before, hey, here's three outfits you can you can wear. Which one would you like? Right? Giving them some control. Which one of these three do you want? You know, do you or for an older child, do you want to, you know? Sometimes when they come right home from school, that might not be the time that they want to do their homework because they're tired, they're worn out. Hey, after you've had some time to go outside and play, would you like to do your homework before dinner or after dinner? You're giving them some of those options. And you know what? If they want to sleep in their outfit before, you know, just let them go to go to the school with uh wrinkled pants. Sometimes that's okay. And you know, mom and dad need to be together on that one. But uh but the the story, the thing I read here said you can do that. You know, like uh if they want to wear different socks one day, you know, let them let them do it and see what happens. Um but delegating, finding out for yourself what kind of control you can delegate so that they're having a sense of agency and they're getting an opportunity, that they're they're feeling like they're making, you know, well, you can have the the this or the that or the this. What would you prefer? You know, but they're not the option to, I don't know, eat Cheerios for dinner. That's not on the table, you know. Anyway, we'll teach and reinforce empathy and humility. Most importantly, teach and reinforce empathy and humility early and often. Help them learn to listen and care about others. We're talking about character again. Talk about what it looks like to be honest. So you want to have these kind of conversations. That's being honest. That's great. Faithful, loyal. What does it mean to be loyal? Sincere. That was sincere. What does that mean? Ethical and genuinely loving and encouraging of others. Strong will children learn how to be empathetic and humble. Two foundational relational traits. They can become extraordinary leaders. Help them to see the value of other people, their thoughts, opinions, and well-being as they learn to influence rather than dominate. Um I'll talk about this a lot, and as your kids get older, um, you want to be the thermostat, not the thermometer. When you go to the party, when you're going to your six-year-old, seven-year-year-old party, when you're going to the teenager, whatever, you walk into the room, you're the thermostat. You're setting the temperature. You're not the thermometer, you're not taking the temperature and doing what everybody's doing. You're setting the tone. You're the leader. Especially to our boys. We want to speak that into them. You know. When you're up on your chair, is it easier, if I'm standing up here, is it easier for someone down here to pull me off or for me to pull them up? Which is easier? Pull you down, right? They'll pull you down to their level. Easy. And so I want to I want to have pictures like that for my kids. I want to tell them about that. You know, get up on that chair. You know, let's do it. See how easy it is for me to pull you down? How much easier it is, or how much more difficult it is for you to pull up your brother, you know? Um, character, these character traits, teaching them uh to reinforce empathy, caring about others, humility, these kinds of traits that are about character. So we're we could probably do another thing on this. We could, and we're just we're out of time. We gotta go.
SPEAKER_08So uh is John gonna give them the notes for all that? Do you know I don't know? Do you guys actually get those? I don't know.
SPEAKER_05I don't think we get the.
SPEAKER_08Would that be helpful? Do anybody want to have like notes that that prints and kind of overview?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think to me, I like I have those, I have those as PDF files. If anybody would like them, let me know and I'll shoot you a PDF of it of all of them. You know, those are really good. So I'll get you the PDF of it. And if you want that, let me know.
SPEAKER_08We can send it out to full class.
SPEAKER_05Great. Well, uh, let's end in prayer. Jan, why don't you close us out in prayer?
SPEAKER_08Father, thank you that you are our perfect father and your patience and grace and mercy you give us. And I know everybody here wants to be reflecting you to their spouses and to their children, and we all desire that they would all come into your kingdom and that you would call our children. So, Father, help us all to just glean what we need to hear today from your word and know that your Holy Spirit is with us to guide, instruct, counsel, and help us in this big ministry and calling you've given each one of these parents here and us as grandparents to know how to point our children to you, Lord Jesus, even through our failures, our sin, our ignorance. Lord, I pray that you help us all to be a help to each other too, in sharing experiences, sharing tips and things that could help us in helping our children understand your love, your authority, your commandments, and to honor you in our marriages, in our families, and even when we mess up on our own human failure and sometimes in more, but you help us know, or help us to just rest in the truth of your forgiveness, your grace, and how you can help us extend that to each other and and trust that you can even overcome the failures that we have already experienced. I know when I look back and see so many things I would have done differently. Thank you, dear God of redemption and healing, even in our failures. So thank you for this group. Help us all to hear your word today as it's preached through Pastor Kenny in Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_05Amen.
SPEAKER_08John is back next week. Now we would be back next week.