09 - Jane Neves, The Shine Coach: A Candid Conversation on Divorce and Healing

Today, I sit down with Jane Neves, also known as the Shine Coach, who specialises in guiding people through one of life’s most challenging transitions: divorce. 

Jane, a three-time divorcee, shares her personal insights and the profound lessons learned from each experience. This conversation delves into the emotional and practical aspects of ending a marriage, the impact on personal identity, and the crucial role of support systems.

Jane emphasises the importance of self-compassion and the need for a solid foundation to rediscover oneself post-divorce. The duo also discusses the misconceptions of divorce portrayed in the media, the realities behind "amicable" separations, and the significance of financial independence.

Tune in to learn about the transformational power of coaching during life’s lows and how to reclaim your life and happiness post-divorce.

Powered by and edited by Mike Roberts at Making Digital Real

Transcript

0:00

Everybody, thank you for tuning in to my latest episode of Show Up and Shine. I'm getting some great comments from you. Thank you. See, basically, the reason I want to do this podcast, as I was just saying to my guest today, is, you know, we have our ups and downs. Every single person on the planet has their ups and downs. We don't always see that. We don't always hear that. And you know, that person in the office who's not going out for lunch that day, maybe there's something going on in their lives. That person doing that presentation in front of you. You may not know that they haven't slept that night, or they're drunk too much, or they've got a heartache behind the scenes. Now, I've been there. I've done some really tough stuff in front of people when literally I've had heartbreak, illness, grief. And that's what we do, isn't it? I'm no exception. That's what we do. We show up, we put the lights on, and we shine. And I'm interested in what keeps us going. And also, if we've got a toolkit of what to do when the next, you know, life dip is on the horizon, talk to people about what they do when the times get tough, and the lights dim, and we don't want to get out under that duvet. So we do though, we do get out, and what might be helpful. And today, I've got a really super helpful lady. Her name is Jane Neves, and she is the Shiner Coach, which is appropriate for the show up and shine. But specifically, she helps people navigate the horrible bridge of divorce. Now, as up there, death, moving house, some would say public speech, but the top three life traumas are losing someone, moving house, and divorce. And yet, you know, you see celebrities, oh, I got divorced, and now they've got a new girlfriend or boyfriend within days. It seems like in America, you could have these quickie divorces, and they're all on the red carpet the next day looking fabulous. So it kind of gives us all a wrong impression of how easy divorce appears to be for some people, when actually behind the scenes is absolutely devastating. And I think even amicable divorces come with heartache as well, if there is such a thing as an amicable divorce, because frankly, you didn't get married to split up. So all the dreams invested in that day, in that contract, in that special moment where you've declared to the world that you're a partnership forever, you never thought this is going to end one day. So there is remorse and sadness, even for so-called amicable divorces. Am I talking your language, Jane? Absolutely. Yeah. Hi, thank you so much, Caroline, for having me on the podcast. I have been following you since you were writing in the Daily Express, used to read your column. And yeah, I've been married and divorced three times. And exactly that, my tagline is nobody gets married to get divorced, because as you say, you invest on the day, you invest on the whole experience, the relationship, and you just don't see what's coming down the line. So yeah, you're absolutely talking my language. Yeah. Well, you did it three times, so it didn't put you off. What was that, was it off the wild or someone said it's like a hope over experience? So you carried on. What did you learn? Oh, crikey. Well, the first marriage, I was far too young, I was 21. And back in the day, crikey, I mean, I'm 62 now. So back in the day, it was everybody was getting married. So it was the thing to do. Everybody was getting married, then they'd have the children and so on and so forth. But far too young to get married and realized that fairly early on. So we split up and then I met my second husband. And yeah, he was, what I saw was the love of my life. And we were together for over 20 years. So I never ever thought that that would end. He unfortunately was then cheating on me. So I tried to get the trust back. But I personally couldn't get that trust back. A lot of people can work on the marriage and, and, you know, if that's right for them, that is right for them. But, you know, the trust had gone. So along came husband number three, who I would describe as at the time, a knight in shining armor, he came to pick me up and swept me off my feet. But unfortunately, he alienated me from my children. And he alienated me from my friends. And I became a total people pleaser for him. And then I just woke up one day and thought, enough is enough. I just can't do this anymore. I won't do this anymore. Well, I'm glad you I'm glad you got out. But you know, a lot of people don't realize that marriage changes people. And who you were meeting and who you saw in a romantic, light hearted way before the marriage can change almost overnight with with the wrong partner, if they want to control or change the rules, as it were, it's almost like they see marriage is finally the door closing on the outside world. And they've got you, which is I'm sorry. I'm sorry, you went through such a horrible experience there, Jane. Yeah, yeah. But but I had the strength and the love from my family to help me end the marriage and get out of it and you know, not be ashamed that it didn't work. It didn't work. And, and that's okay. You know, so many people stay in a marriage for the children. So many people stay in the marriage because they think they should and the shame of it of ending that it's somehow a failure. But I've turned them all into successes because I've learned so much from each one. And I don't regret. Don't regret things you made the right decisions. And, you know, most people when when I did my academy, I asked the students, has anyone ever stayed in a situation where you wish you'd got out a long time before you actually did? And everybody nods on the screen. I've got all these students. And it's like, and you stayed in a horrible job that you just dragged on forever before you had the courage to leave. Have you ever been in a relationship that went on for far too long before you had the courage? And they all nod. So we all do. I don't know whether we're giving someone a second chance or expect some change to occur. But we do. We want, I suppose, we want to be sure we're making the right decision when we do leave or it does end. You want to give someone the best shot, but that can go on for years. Absolutely. And there's also the excuses. I'm working with somebody at the moment who originally had said, well, I'll just wait till the youngest son is 18. And I'll just wait for that. But, you know, the boundaries change then, don't they? And the goalpost changes to who you will be then, you know, how much life could you have lived better before that? And also working, I'm working with somebody who has two young children and, you know, regretting, well, not regretting, but questioning whether they should put them through it. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's your life. It's absolutely your life. And, you know, everybody adapts. Yeah, exactly. And children do know that the parents are unhappy. They do know, no matter how much you may try and hide it, they know that there's an atmosphere or that you're not loving towards each other, or there's a kind of low level bickering going on all the time. They are aware of that. Yeah, they're little play dolls. Yeah. They'd much rather see happy mum and dad, even if it's separate happy mum and dad, I'm sure. Although, I forget as well, children are quite selfish. They want things to stay the same forever too. They're quite conservative, and you can understand that. It's a big rift in their lives. But, you know, what traditionally, or typically, I should say, when you do get divorced, and as I said, I don't think there's such a thing as an amicable one. You still have a sadness afterwards. What do you need most in that time post-divorce? You suddenly realise you've cleared the stuff out. You're living somewhere else, maybe, or there's gaps in the bookshelf. The slippers aren't by the bed anymore. What do you need in that absence, that loss, that grief? What do you need most then? What would be most helpful in that moment? I think, first of all, you need compassion for yourself. There were two people in this relationship, marriage, whatever, and it isn't always down to just one person. There's compassion. So, you have to give yourself compassion, a great support network, and obviously, I would recommend a coach because a coach will actually discover from yourself, I mean, will help you discover, should I say. They don't tell you anything, but they will help you discover exactly what it is that you want. I lost my identity. I lost my freedom, and I lost my independence, particularly in the last divorce. I just didn't know who I was. So, you know, what I needed was to find myself again, to discover who Jane was and what Jane wanted, and I realized that it was a lot of not what I wanted in the marriage. I wasn't the person who I really was in the marriage, you know. So, a good support network, a great coach, and because a coach can, will discover what you want rather than the friends and family who will probably tell you what they think you want to hear. I think there's a sort of a sense of, oh, you're free now. In films, it's kind of like you can have a divorce party. You can have a drink lots of fizz and have a ball, but actually, that might be immediately, great, I'm free, but then there is this doubt turn afterwards, and I remember when I got divorced, yeah, it was very down for quite a while, and then a friend of mine said, yeah, but it gets worse. I was like, no, no, I'll pivot the bottom of the barrel, and it's quite bumpy, and I don't like it, and she said, yeah, you'll come up again, but you will go down again. I was like, I don't like you for saying that, and actually, she was right after the kind of the initial kind of oof to the kick of the stomach feeling, and then seeing your friends and going out and limping along for a bit and trying not to cry at work, and then feeling, oh, yeah, I'm a bit stronger. Yes, there was a secondary dip, and now I know that's often what happens. You've had the ups and downs, and that's how it is, and then finally, a leveling out, and I found what I really missed was some kind of status. Marriage gives you status. I was somebody's wife, and I had a house, a three-bedroom house, and I'm living in a one-room bed-sit thing. I let my husband have the house, and now it's mad, isn't it? I knew I could cope, so I moved out. I was like, I haven't got anything now, and I did feel shame. I didn't want people to know, and I worked on an editorial floor with 60 journalists, and I remember one day, because journalists being what they are, I said, it's a bit like Caroline's coming today. She hasn't got a wedding ring on. I'm in the press, literally in the press, and it was like everyone's looking at me. I felt really embarrassed and ashamed. My private life's become public all of a sudden, and I just felt a huge loss of me, but then, as you say, you start to, who am I then? What do I need? What's the next thing? Also, if you have another partner, what don't you want? What do you want this time, and what do you want? You know, the famous unconscious uncoupling. Can you do that for them? Could you work with a client like that? Does it work? Well, it all depends on what they want, doesn't it? At the end of the day, you work with somebody with what their realistic expectations are at the end of the day. I would say to somebody, what is it that you want? Nine times out of 10, I don't know what I want, because I've never been put in that situation before, so I do the work with them to say, look, you've got a blank piece of paper here. You've got the rest of your life to live. The world is your oyster, literally. You can do anything that you want to do within reason, you know? It's just teasing it out, what lights their fire, what do they really want to do? If they want to be able to move on like Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin did amicably, then yeah, let's have a look at making that work. Both parties have got to be on side with that, I guess. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Hi, I'm Carol Anne. I've been a coach for 20 years, and I share all my incredible coaching tools and techniques at the Pure Coaching Academy. If you're looking to train to be a life coach, join us. It's eight weeks of pure, fun, intense training, and everything you need to know about becoming a world-class life coach. We also show you the tools and techniques you need to set up an amazing, abundant practice too. Purecoachingacademy.com is where you need to go to see how to change the world, with you doing what you do best as an amazing life coach. And nine times out of ten, as you say, there's always a little bit of aggro either side, or not necessarily aggro, but things that are not sitting right with people, you know? One of my absolute passion's torches I carry is that I really do passionately believe that men should be financially independent. And get this at a young age, that a man isn't a financial plan, that once you're married, oh good, I don't have to work so hard now, I don't have to look after my finances. So many women say, I don't know how much money we have got. I don't do any of that. He does all of that. And then a nasty shock comes. And working with some independent financial advisors have told me some women get a terrible shock, particularly when, I'm not saying this always happens, but if a man has met a new partner, he doesn't want to give his family and his wife a lot of the money. He may have been very clever with the money and stitched it in such a way, he wants to give it to the new partner and their new future. So there's a lot of sheer horror stories on the horizon here. So it's absolutely my passion that young women learn to save, to invest, to put money aside. In marriages as well, women should have their own, what I call, I sound so negative, running away money. I know. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Three to six months running away money for rent safety. Because you put yourself in a very, very vulnerable place when you marry and you just think, phew, I don't have to worry now. He does it all. He's earning more than me. He's looking after us. Any thoughts on that and women and finances, Jane? Oh, yeah. I mean, I would 100% agree. I've got a daughter, she's 25 and I know for a fact that she will have her head screwed on with it, with the finances, depending on anybody. And I would hope that a lot more people are, a lot more women are setting their stall out, so to speak, because we just never know. As we said before, we don't get married to get divorced, but you just never know what's on the horizon. And if you haven't got that little, not nest egg, but that safety net of, you're going to be okay if anything goes wrong that you've got. And my last marriage, I literally, I left this huge house and went in a one bedroom, spareroom.com and I could do it on my own and I did it on my own. Yeah. But it's horrible that you have to. You had the nest egg there. Say I left and lived in a one bedroom, a tiny sort of box place. But when I put the key in the door on that first day, I thought, oh, my life's going to crumble down as I live on my own. I felt free and peaceful. And because it is a long journey until you actually say this is a working, so you might have lived with it for some years. So it's never really a big sudden fracture. It's like this hasn't been working for some time and now I'm ready to go. And I don't mind living in a one bedroom, box room, bedsit thing, because that is better than going through what I'm going through every day. Yeah. And it's on your terms as well, isn't it? You're living life on your terms then. Yeah, definitely. You can eat strange things at strange times at night. You come and go as you please. I mean, I remember having all sorts of strange things in my fridge, which, you know, it's my life. I eat what I like now. Absolutely. You've got the remote control. Hoorah. Yeah. But, you know, I'm on TikTok, I confess. I put my hands up. I go into the TikTok vortex. I limit myself to an hour a day. And it seems to me there's a common theme, and I know I get the certain algorithm. But young women are really asking the questions about why would I need a marriage now? It's very much a 1950s thing. It was much of social conditioning back then. Get women back at factories post-war, back into the home, the happy ever after, the man who's going to save you, the romance, the white picket fence. Is it the future for us now, marriage? Are young people, young women thinking this is my destiny now, is the big, big white dress and the wedding day? Do you know what? Yes and no. I think it's more to do with the day sometimes and the status, as you said before, it's like, you know, look at me, I'm married, I've got a man and I'm successful. Successful in a relationship, because I think there is misconstrued ideas that if you are successful in a relationship, that person will ask you to marry you or vice versa. And, you know, you're showing the outside world that you are one unit and successful in, as I say, in the relationship. However, you know, the freedom of having the choice that you can walk away from a relationship without all the baggage that a marriage, as we know, through divorce, lawyers and such like, I don't think it is as common as it was. And also, I think that girls are getting more savvy to think, you know, why would you get married? Why would you get married? I mean, I personally can't ever imagine me getting married for the fourth time, because no, there's no need. What is the need? You've just got to boil down to what is the need for getting married? Yeah, well, that's a lot of mine, isn't it? And I suppose it still has that kind of fairy tale romantic connotation, the big day, the £40,000 wedding, the decorations on the table that, you know, the little gifts, the 12 bridesmaids, you know, I've known, I know someone who had a £40,000 wedding and her mum paid for it, I think, and then she came back to live with mum three months after because she didn't like her husband. But she had the big day, you know, I know it's all a bit mad and everything's personal. And you can get married in a registry office and go for fish and chips, which is what they used to do in the old days. So it doesn't have to be that big grand gesture these days. But it is a good question. Why would you want that? Why can't you live together? There's no shame in that. There's no social stigma. And I also think that, you know, things like Cinderella, the old fairy tales, like, happily ever after, and they went into the castle, and here we go. And we have been conditioned that that is the way. If we were conditioned that we would stay single, but in partnerships, then that would be fine, too. You know, it's social conditioning at the end of the day. It's an interesting thought when you see other people's marriages. Do you envy them? Do you envy them, Jane, looking in now? Is it anyone's marriage that you think, oh, that's the perfect marriage? Yeah, but you just don't know what's behind closed doors. As I was saying, you know, now I look at people who are married just as relationships, because the way that I've changed my mindset, they are in a relationship. They may not be happy in the marriage. And it may be more difficult for them to get out of a marriage than if they were in a relationship, and they could just say thanks, but no thanks anymore, you know. So it's still, because I think it's so ingrained, you know, that I do look to see if people are married, to see if there's the wedding ring, and to see, you know, oh, they're married. But then what am I making that mean? What am I making that mean about them? And what am I making that mean about me? Which, you know, is the question I've got to ask myself. Why am I making that mean what I'm making it mean, you know? So when people come to you, because it's a relatively new thing, a divorce coach, it's like they haven't been around forever. What are the common things that your clients want from you and want from the coaching with a divorce coach? They want to find out how they can find themselves again. Because, you know, the big thing, the common thing, I don't know about you, Caroline, but, you know, I lost myself, they do lose themselves. When you get married or in any strong, long term relationship, I believe that you morph into one, you morph into like a couple, and you morph into maybe the stronger, the stronger voice in the in the couple, you know, who will say what they're doing, and where they're going, and who's are seeing who's are not seeing what they're doing on the day. And, again, you know, to, to find out what they what they really want out of life, and who they really are, and who that what their identity is, and, and independence as well, you know, that's, that's a big thing, like we were saying before about the money, having the independence to do what they want to do, and having the money to be able to do what they want to do. So, so yeah, I'd say that was, that was the main thing. But finding yourself, I mean, it can actually be quite frightening to have freedom. Yeah, you know, they say that when you open the door of a caged bird, the bird will stay in the cage. Yeah. Freedom's too daunting. And it can be terrifying as well. I want my own. I'm lonely. What will people say if I sit in a restaurant on my own or go to the theatre on my own? I don't want to be thought of as this single person. So finding yourself means what? I suppose they have to try new things and dig deep to find out what really lights them up. How do they do that? Yeah, literally, just, you know, back to the drawing board of what does light them up, what used to light them up when they were little, you know, when they were on their own before, they haven't all of a sudden come into this relationship and dropped everything. But when you're in a relationship, there's a lot of time spent on the relationship and spent with the other party. Now there is an awful lot of time that you've got for thinking time and also a lot of alone time. But you can be very lonely in a marriage and not so lonely, you know, single. And even though you're alone, you can find out all sorts of things that you can do, you know, new hobbies. I know the word hobbies gets bandied around, but you can find what you really want to do. Try them. I mean, my God, I've done so much since my last divorce. I've done paddle, badminton, golf, you name it. I've tried everything. And literally encourage people to try everything, even if they don't, you know, if they see something, they all know, I don't think that's for me. Try it if you like it, you do. And if you don't, you don't. I always find that as a married person myself now, that sometimes single friends come to a married couple with great stories of their lives. So you become re-entertaining suddenly that you're what you've been up to. I did this course, I went there, I went on holiday. And you know, your life seems to be of interest to others. You don't feel like you're lonely and alienated. You're like, you bring a breath of fresh air to establish married couples because you're the one out there having all these world adventures. Yeah. And usually in a long term relationship or marriage, I don't know about you, but you know, usually you end up doing rinse and repeat on the week, rinse and repeat on the month, rinse and repeat on the year, you know, like one family holiday or, you know, and then we'll go and see Auntie so-and-so and then we'll go and see parents, you know, if they're around. And there's not, if you're working as well, there's not much time to, to find what you like to do as well, you know? So yeah, yeah, it's great, great fun being single. So, yeah, I'm sure. And so how long do people work with you? How long, do you have a program? Is it over a series? Yeah, I have, I have a 12-week program, which is quite loose really in the fact that I work bespokely with them. They may not want lots of sessions all at once. We may need to just keep in touch and then have sessions when they're needed. But generally I see my clients once a week and we go through exactly what's going on for them. I can save a lot of money on solicitors fees. I can tell you that by just some little tweaks of what the behavior of each party is doing, you know, because if, if you'll know yourself being through a divorce, that if you want to communicate with the other party, if it's not amicable, then, you know, usually it's the solicitor's letter at however many pounds an hour it is in the letter. So I cut all that down as well to the minimum. Yeah. And I'll just work with them to get the best outcome for them and them and their family. If they, you know, if they've got children and, you know, let them literally release the bird into the, into the wild and let them fly. And be there when they're having the dark days as well, presumably. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And question, question them as well, you know, as a coach would do, question, you know, why, why did they want to do that? What is their why for doing that? And, you know, help them realize what they're wanting. You know, there was one client who, um, was just ready to sign everything away because they were just absolutely sick of the process of the divorce and the solicitors and everything. And realize was working with me that, you know, really there is life after divorce and there's going to be something that you will need. And, you know, it will be buyer's remorse if you go and sign that piece of paper, just giving all that money, um, just because you just want an end to it. And so, yeah, I mean, it's an industry that the divorce industry, the legal industry, because I went through my divorce. So there was like, okay, well, we sorted that bit out now. Shall we start fighting for all the, the domestic possessions in the home? And I thought, no, I don't want to fight over the fridge freezer and the contents. You can have all that, you know, but there is a kind of let's upscale now. Let's, we've done the kind of basic groundwork. Let's do the other bit of the legal baton. I thought, no, no, no, I'm not going to go on forever. I'm not going to fight. And, you know, obviously some people fight over the dog or cat as well, which is quite sad. Um, no, I'm not getting into all that. You can have it. I don't need a fridge freezer and a washing machine that much. And, and, you know, I, I left my husband, my third husband thinking I would go back for some stuff that I'd left. And at the end of the day, I realised it was only stuff. And you don't anyway, when you pick it up. Absolutely. But I think what kept me going at that time was a wine box in the fridge. When I came home from work and my friends, I think yes, they do need support. But if I had a divorce coach there, that would have, uh, minimised a lot of the agony of it all. I'm sure. So what you're doing is a fantastic service there, Jane. And though people might meet someone else. I mean, I've got a friend who's on husband number five and she said she's never had children from husband number five and she's in her sixties. And she said, he's the best one. Right. Born in the end, he was decent.