Covenant

Episode 92 - Covenant

Official transcript: https://www.cheynemusic.com/transcripts

Hosts: Jan, Rob, Dee, & Jim; Guests: Bill & Linda Himes

We talk with lifelong friends, and follow Linda’s growth from High School sophomore student of Dave McMahon (Rob’s father), to youth church leader, to lay Bible study teacher and trainer.

Links:

Making Our Way is hosted through buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com

More information about Deanna & Jim Cheyne is here: https://www.cheynemusic.com

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Transcript

[Music]

JIM (voice-over): 

Today we begin a conversation with Bill and Linda Himes.

Now look, when we were younger, we knew both Bill Himes and Linda Bandy, but we knew them separately. and would never have imagined the possibility of that phrase, “Bill and Linda Himes.” I mean, how’d that happen?

Everyone knows and admires Bill Himes, the Salvation Army’s current chief musician.

But who is Linda? Looking for answers? Looking for insights? Well, you’ve come to the right place. We knew Linda Bandy to be intelligent, grounded, finding purpose in her faith through the Salvation Army, fun-loving, positive, lacking malice, never inviting a whisper of gossip. That’s Linda Bandy.

And Linda Himes? No big changes, really, though she now possesses a Lily Tomlin like sense of irony. I mean, what on earth does Linda have to do with music. On the other hand, what on earth does Bill have to do with the sunrise? But here they are, perhaps surprisingly, perhaps even inevitably, Bill and Linda Himes. And they are joining us in conversation. 

[Music]

ROB: Hey, Linda’s here.

JAN: Oh yeah. 

LINDA: Oh hi guys. I am here. 

ROB: I’ve I have known Linda longer than anybody at this table.

JAN: This is true.

LINDA: True.

ROB: Quite a bit longer than that.

LINDA: That is true.

ROB: Yeah. 

LINDA: Right. 

ROB: Do you remember when…

LINDA: I remember…

ROB: …you first encountered the McMahon family?

LINDA: …your dad was my teacher in high school.

ROB: Yeah.

LINDA: That would have been sophomore in high school maybe.

ROB: Sophomore?

JAN: That was, like, bookkeeping?

LINDA: Bookkeeping, yes, bookkeeping. And here’s the thing, because he promised me there were two bookkeeping teachers, your dad and Mr. Griswold, Rex Griswold. And he - your dad promised me if I signed up for bookkeeping that I would be in his class. And lo and behold, I was not. I ended up in Rex Griswold’s class. Bookkeeping with Rex Griswold was not fun. Because he was like a typical I don’t want to say typical accountant, but typical accountant.

JAN: Boring?

LINDA: Just boring. Yes, boring. 

JAN: Sorry, not to stereotype. 

LINDA: Not to stereo… - no, not to stereotype, but yeah. But boring. And so I was really angry at your dad. 

ROB: Did you ever have him in cla- as as a teacher? 

LINDA: I did not. 

ROB: You worked with him in the bookstore, right? Or the…

LINDA: In the bookstore?

JAN: Trenton. 

ROB: The Trenton High School. Didn’t they have a bookstore or something? 

JAN: We made up stories about you, so just go with it.

LINDA: Okay, okay. The bookstore. It was my favorite place. Yeah. The bookstore. I don’t recall a bookstore.

ROB: So you never had him as…

LINDA: No.

ROB: …a teacher.

LINDA: No. No, actually I did, because I was his assistant. So I had him for Bookkeeping I. And he convinced me to sign up for Bookkeeping II.

ROB: Okay.

LINDA: And that’s - so I had him for Bookkeeping I the first year and I was his assistant. 

ROB: Okay. 

LINDA: Right. 

ROB: Well he he ran the school bookstore or the…

LINDA: Okay.

ROB: …you know, where they sold equipment, things that people use in school, evidently. 

LINDA: School supplies. 

ROB: Yeah. And I thought you worked in there with him, but you didn’t. 

LINDA: I - maybe I did. No, I - and I worked with him a lot. I don’t recall the bookstore, actually.

ROB: But you were his assistant. What was that? 

LINDA: I was his assistant. so that would be in class and I would grade papers for him and…

ROB: Oh, okay.

LINDA: …and “go to the bookstore and get supplies for him.”

ROB: Okay. 

LINDA: Yes. 

ROB: How did he talk you into babysitting for us?

LINDA: Well…

ROB: Because (Spoiler Alert!) Linda was my babysitter. 

LINDA: Spoiler alert, yes, I was Rob’s babysitter. And I remember, like, Rick was probably three, so how would you be?

ROB: I would have been about seven or eight.

LINDA: Okay, and Sandy?

ROB: Yeah. Would have been six.

LINDA: Six, right. So he asked me to babysit and they were going to church. So - and I had no idea that that meant The Salvation Army. So I go to the house and they - your mom and your dad come down and they’re full uniforms and I’m like what…?

JAN: “What cult are you part of?”

BILL: Gestapo, yeah.

LINDA: Exactly. You know, is this the Gestapo? What’s happening here? So they go off and I’m thinking, “Oh my goodness, what - I’m gonna get these three little kids,” you know? But but we did some fun things and and I do remember, like, lipstick, drawing on faces with lipstick. But, and I do remember, Rob, that when you were older I was still babysitting. dropping him off at school and they’re like, “Oh yeah that’s my babysitter you know um but…

BILL: He was at university then,  so it’s kind of a tell.

JAN: He still needed a ride there.

LINDA: But, then when he was able to drive, he drives to school. He comes home from school on the bus. 

ROB: Oh come on, I didn’t - you’re not invited here to tell those kind of stories. 

LINDA: Well I’m just telling the truth.

JAN: It’s a great story.

LINDA: Right. So he comes home on the bus and I’m like, “Rob, where’s the car?” “Oh.” He drove to school and rode the bus home. And left the car. Right. 

ROB: So I walked back to school and got the car.

LINDA: Right, right. 

ROB: Anyway. Okay, tell me after you graduated…

LINDA: Yeah.

ROB: …what did you do? 

LINDA: I worked at the Eventide home - Salvation Army Eventide Home in Detroit -  that was run by your grandfather and your grandmother. 

JAN: This is before you were going to the army, right? 

LINDA: This was before I was going to the army, right. So it was just because of the connection with your dad and your grandpa, and then I was introduced to some other Salvation Army officers who invited me to come to the corps, Detroit Citadel. 

ROB: So that was the connection actually to the corps…

LINDA: Right.

ROB: …was through Eventide.

LINDA: Was through Eventide.

ROB: So my mom and dad didn’t scare you away?

LINDA: No, no the uniform did not scare me away, but, um, but then I then I was connected to that, you know, so then I started going to Detroit Citadel, you know, downtown.

[Music] 

JIM (voice-over): Okay, hate to interrupt, but we’re using phrases and abbreviations that might be unfamiliar to you. No, we’re not speaking in tongues, but we slipped into some insider language. So here’s a brief lexicon of Salvation Army Speak. The Salvation Army is a Protestant evangelical church that adopted 19th-century military structure and nomenclature. Pastors are officers. Layleaders are soldiers. As such, they wear uniforms to church. A church is known as a corps. A group of corps is a division. A group of divisions is a territory. That’s the structure.

Jan Rob Linda and I went to the Detroit Citadel Corps. So you’ll hear about the Corps or the Citadel. That just means our church in Detroit. It was part of the Eastern Michigan Division, which is part of the Central Territory. That division and that territory were very important to us because of all the events they organized, especially for young people, such as summer camps.

If we’re not saying Detroit Citadel, then we’re going to say 601, which was the address. Then in the early 70s, we moved to Dearborn Heights So you’ll hear that city mentioned as well. Meanwhile, Bill, as a child, moved around because his parents were clergy, that is, officers, and were appointed here and there. You’ll hear Bill mention Royal Oak and Port Huron.

We also mentioned the programs The Salvation Army Church has for young people: music programs, a leadership training program called Corps Cadets, a fellowship group called Torchbearers, and the Salvation Army’s version of Girl Scouts called Girl Guards, for older girls, Or Sunbeams for younger girls.

I think I’ve covered them all. Hope that helps. Oh, and we are recording this at Jan and Rob’s dining table, so Skye, their black lab retriever, joins in now and then. Okay, that’s it. Back to the conversation. 

JAN: Did you have a church home before that? Before The Army.

LINDA: I did not.

JAN: Okay. So The Army was your first exposure to…

LINDA: Yeah.

JAN: …going to church? 

LINDA: I mean when I was younger I had gone to church a couple times with neighbors, but I really did not have - I was enjoying my life as a heathen…

JAN: Well, yeah.

LINDA: …before then. Right. But it was your dad who really was the one who introduced me to The Salvation Army. And then through working with your grandfather, you know, it just really became connected. Yeah.

JAN: And did you - so you were at The Army from then on? 

LINDA: Yes. Right.

JAN: Pretty much.

LINDA: From then on. From then until this very moment.

JAN: Yeah.

LINDA: Right.

JAN: And still are.

LINDA: And I still am. 

ROB: And then when did you start working for the Michigan Education Association? 

LINDA: I worked for The Army for like seven years, and then your dad got me a job at the MEA, the Michigan Education Association. And so I worked there and then he became president,  and so then I went to Lansing to work for him there as his secretary. And then I started going to Michigan State football games and cheering for Michigan.

JAN: You are a brave soul.

ROB: I don’t understand that at all. 

JAN: I understand that totally. I was just thinking about how important you both have been in our lives. I mean it’s really pretty amazing that - are you surprised, Bill? 

BILL: I’m shocked. 

JAN: Oh yeah. Okay. 

BILL: This is my shocked voice for those listening. 

JAN: Well, I remember we came to your recital… 

BILL: Oh yes, at Michigan…

JAN: …at Michigan…

BILL: …yeah. 

JAN: …because that’s what my dad would do. He would have us - um Linda was just formidable to our growing up in the corps. 

ROB: Absolutely. 

JAN: It, I mean, a leader, um, fun, that was the key.

LINDA: Thank you for putting that in there. Thank you.

JAN: That was, I think, what made you a good leader. You were fun and we didn’t think about it as an authority figure. 

ROB: She was, she was our Torchbearer Guardian.

LINDA: Right.

ROB: That was her official title.

LINDA: Right, Torchbear Guardian.

ROB: What did that involve, Linda? 

LINDA: Well that involved, of course, planning all these fun events and going on trips and answering the question, “How much longer ?”

JAN: And, “Do we really have to go to the Salvation Meeting when we get back?” 

LINDA: Right, right. Oh yes, those were the awful days, right. 

ROB: And canoe trips. 

LINDA: Canoe trips, yeah.

ROB: And camping trips.

LINDA: Winter camping trips. 

JAN: And video production…

LINDA: Video productions, yes, yes. 

JAN: …which was…

LINDA: Yes.

JAN: …entertaining.

LINDA: Right. 

ROB: My uncle Tom just so just viewed “Root the Toot” for the first time. I don’t know how he got it. I honestly don’t. Somebody gave it to him. 

LINDA: This is so great because I’m remembering how, now, how much fun my life was.

BILL: This part of her life remains quite a mystery.

JAN: Well, and and the quality of the film is poor…

ROB: Oh, very poor.

LINDA: Of course, yeah.

JAN: …so it requires some narration, but I thought we were really…

LINDA: We were cutting edge.

JAN: There’s a toilet flushing; there’s a lot going on.

ROB: Oh, yeah, cutting edge.

LINDA: Cutting edge, right.

ROB: That’s right.

BILL: So the toilet flushing, that classifies as special effects?

ROB: That was special effects. That’s right.

ROB: Um, yeah, Torchbearers was a blast.

LINDA: It was. It really was.

ROB: And you were a really, really important part of that.

LINDA: Thank you. 

JAN: Not to get too serious…

LINDA: Thank you.

JAN: …but that’s really true, Linda. You think about all the things we did together. You coming to Florida, befriending Lois, which she needed a good friend.

LINDA: Right.

JAN: So all of that, and I just love the history of how you came to The Army through the McMahons.

LINDA: Right.

JAN: It’s um…

LINDA: Right.

JAN: Yeah, Dave… 

ROB: He wasn’t - he never really pushed or anything, did he?

LINDA: No. No…

ROB: Did he invite you?

LINDA: …he just invited me.

ROB: Okay. Alright. 

LINDA: He invited me to come. Invited me to come…

ROB: Yeah.

LINDA: …and, and I did, you know. And just kind of a natural process of it all, but it was started with that invitation…

ROB: Yeah.

LINDA: …you know, from him to just come. And that was started with the relationship at school, with me being his assistant. And also I worked for him at the wrestling tournaments.

ROB: Oh, that’s right.

LINDA: Right.

ROB: He had the wrestling tournaments.

LINDA: Yeah, the wrestling tournaments.

ROB: Those were awesome.

LINDA: That was fun. Right. So it’s developing the relationship first.

JAN: Yep.

LINDA: Then the invite. Then salvation. 

JIM: Check my memory on this. I think I remember a service where you were at the altar. And for me at 601 in an evening service. Do you know remember anything like that? Or have I created this?

LINDA: Right. It was at 601. 

JIM: Do you know if it was an evening service? 

LINDA: It was an evening service.

JIM: Okay. 

LINDA: Right.

JIM: I I have this picture but sometimes you create pictures…

LINDA: No you’re right.

JIM: …based on things you’ve heard.

LINDA: You’re right.

JIM: Okay. 

JAN: ’Cause I don’t ever remember you being at the altar. So there you go.

LINDA: Okay. Well I have been a few times. 

JIM: But the the work you did with us, Linda, I mean, you’ve continued that with, like, Girl Guards, right?

BILL: Mm-Hmm.

LINDA: Right, right.

JIM: What is that…

BILL: To this day.

JIM: To this day.

LINDA: Before I go to that I want to just backtrack a little bit because of the whole thing with Torchbearers. Um, the whole thing of all those years is, like, the value of it I think was providing a place for kids to be together at church.

JAN: Yep.

LINDA: You know, on a regular basis. So just kind of hold them there so they could hear the gospel and grow. And then, and now, when I travel around and I see them everywhere, I you know, I see them when I moved from Detroit to Chicago, everybody all of these - Alan Stewart and all these other kids who grew up in that Torchbearer group are now serving in other places. And then I come down here to Florida and there you guys are, you know, so it’s just to see that how that little nucleus kind of, um, it it holds them, it holds them and then they go out and they serve in other places, which is you know, which is what we try to do. And so as as a leader, it’s so rewarding to see them grow and become leaders.

Of course there are some who don’t, some that we that we lose in the process, but you just invest in the moment when you can and then God is the one who produces the fruit in that. So yes, I still am involved in youth work.

At my corps now, I’m the Girl Guard leader, which I have been there for like twenty years and before that I was a sunbeam leader at at Dearborn Heights for thirteen years, teaching the beginners badge. I know it by heart. So now when I moved to Chicago, I didn’t - I just was looking for a place to serve in the youth work because that was where I normally did. And so Girl Guards - I came in, there was two leaders and I came in and said, “I’ll be the third set of hands.” Within a month the first leader dropped out, you know, and then I was the assistant leader, and then the leader was an officer, so then she got moved, so now I’m the leader and just have been.

When I go back home I have eight girls I’m working with who will receive their General’s Guard Award, which is the highest award that they can receive. So I have to prepare them for that. Once they pass that, then we go to Colorado for a week, and we go whitewater rafting and zip lining, and horseback riding and hiking and shopping and…

BILL: And this is not the first group you’ve taken.

LINDA: No, this will be about 39 or 40 girls over those 20 years that made that trip. It’s fun when I’m out there and posting pictures every day. Girls from the previous groups will always make remarks about what we’re doing .and they know what they did. Something that they work for, three years it takes them to earn that right to do that.

JAN: This year Wendy goes.

LINDA: This year Wendy goes.

JAN: So this is your…

LINDA: Granddaughter…

JAN: [unintelligible]

LINDA: …yes.

JAN: Okay.

LINDA: And so when  she’s finished, I’m getting her through the program, and then when she’s done, then I’m done. So this will be my last year. 

JAN: It’s perfect really. 

LINDA: It is really because I will be old this year. The reality is you can’t be in youth work for the rest of your life because I can’t get off a horse anymore. You know, it’s it’s hard to get off the horse, you know, a real horse.

ROB: Harder to get on.

LINDA: It’s harder, you know, well, it’s just - I’m think - last time I thought I don’t know if I can do this again, but I’m gonna do it again this year and then I’m done. But to have her be the final group that I I’m working with will be very rewarding. So there’s eight of them, Wendy’s included. Then I have already handed over the leadership to another girl who came through the program. She’s a general’s guard, she’s a Catherine Booth [Award winner], and she is now taking over the program, which is what you want to see happen.

ROB: Yeah.

BILL: Reproducing.

LINDA: So It’s gonna be in good hands and I will have finished a very worthwhile job. 

JAN: The thing that we all had growing up, the corps was where we wanted to be.

LINDA: Yeah.

JAN: And those were the friendships…

LINDA: Mm-Hmm.

JAN: …that were most important in our lives.

LINDA: Right.

JAN: And I had friends at school - I still have, am friends with people that I was to school with. But my core C-O-R-E group was the kids at the corps. And that’s why I can say that both of you are influential in that because the group we also had in Eastern Michigan, to me was, I thought every place was like that. Every place had the musicians and um the level of talent that we had in Eastern Michigan and it grounded both of - all of us in who we are today. W those times together.

LINDA: True.

JAN: And we’re still friends with the same people that we, you know, grew up with. Whether they’re in The Army or not. And some are and some aren’t.

LINDA: Right.

JAN: But we’ve maintained those connections and we have that common heritage. 

BILL: That’s why I like Dee being a music educator. You know, I’m always pushing that on kids because music is a great team sport And I said, “You can daydream for five minutes in math and nobody ever is the wiser, but you daydream for three seconds in music? Everyone knows because you’re messing it up,” you know. And also it teaches you to concentrate for a long period of time, long being twenty minutes, because. again, any other task you can you can leave it. And it’s also, it’s a team sport. So it’s like everyone’s doing it together. And when my granddaughter was was talking about whether she was gonna continue playing band in school and stuff like that when she went to junior high, I said, “Well, the thing I remember is I can remember all the kids I was in band with, I can’t remember anyone I was in math class with,” you know, ’cause they - it comes and goes, but these guys you’re with the whole time and it just becomes  again a core kind of experience for you. 

JIM: And with all the youth programs of The Army - of course we will talk about - Bill Himes is here, we might be talking about music some - but also we’re talking about Girl Guards, which is kind of an Army’s model of uh…

BILL: Girl Scouts.

JIM: Girl Scouts sort of stuff.

LINDA: Right.

JIM: But the badges they earn have something to do with being in The Salvation Army.

LINDA: Right, right.

JIM: And then we had the Torchbearers that was more of a social thing.

BILL: Fellowship.

LINDA: Right.

JIM: And then Bill was talking about the Corps Cadet group at Port Heron. Corps Cadets was a big part - but you were never a Corps Cadet, were you? 

LINDA: I was never a Corps Cadet, but I was the Divisional Corps Cadet Leader. So I ran the program, and then I taught Corps Cadets at Dearborn Heights. And I taught Corps Cadets at Oakbrook [Terrace Corps].

JIM: And and that’s more of the uh Bible/ doctrine study, here’s what the Salvation Army is, here’s what we believe, and here’s the the book that we use. Then in ‘85, I see you in Macomb, Illinois, at the International Youth Congress, and you’re very involved in something called Precept Bible study? 

LINDA: Precept Ministries.

JIM: Ministries. Yeah. Which is a Bible study?

LINDA: It is a Bible study. It is an organization that produces Bible studies and trains people how to lead Bible studies and how to actually do inductive Bible study. 

JIM: Trains people like you. 

LINDA: Like me, right. I went to work for them for two years and was trained in how to be a trainer. So I’m a trainer for them, and I train other leaders,  and I teach people how to study. And I’ve been doing that for thirty some years. 

JAN: You lived in Kentucky for a time. 

LINDA: Um it was Tennessee actually.

ROB: Tennessee.

JAN: Tennessee? Okay. Well they’re like one.

LINDA: I know right. Yeah. But yeah, for those two years I lived at their headquarters in Tennessee.

JAN: Is this Kay Arthur?

LINDA: This was Kay Arthur.

JAN: Okay.

LINDA: Right. She’s the founder.

BILL: That sort of brings up though Linda’s sense of conviction to things, because she was just working for the MEA and and Lancing and stuff like that and a Winning Women’s conference comes into town. One of the guest speakers is Kay Arthur.

LINDA: Mm-hmm.

BILL: And so after she spoke, Linda went up to her and just said, “I feel like I should be knowing more about this, and I’d like to you know really - “ I’m not putting it in your words, but Kay Arthur who has - had; she’s gone to glory now - but had great discernment, but she looked at her and says, “You should come down and see us.” And so she did. And she went down and they they hired her in just some menial task. I think you were selling, or you were sending fulfillment of radio broadcasts, back when it was…

LINDA: It was - they just started a radio program and so I was working in the radio department.

BILL: But while she was there she took their classes. 

LINDA: Right. They trained me while I was working there those 2 years.

ROB: Cool. 

JAN: That’s amazing. I didn’t ever know the story about Winning Women. I didn’t know that’s how you got connected. 

LINDA: Winning Women - it was the first time I ever saw her, heard her teach. And when I did, I was just, like, so taken. 

JAN: Like, a door open, or a light went - yeah. 

LINDA: Right. Right. It’s like I just wanted to be able to do that, you know, and just I my the my hunger for the word just right in that moment. Yeah. You know, just exploded. 

JIM: So if I were to see it, what would I see? How would I recognize it as something that’s part of Precept Ministries rather than just there’s a Bible study going on. 

JAN: Like what’s the approach of the study?

LINDA: What’s the approach of the study? It’s a method of what to look for when you’re studying. What are the certain things that you’re going to look for when you sit down and look at a passage? Like, who are the people? That’s the first thing. You look for places and you look for events and you look for words like therefore, and you look for words like…

BILL: Repetitions?

LINDA: …however, you know, or a contrast.

JAN: Connector words.

LINDA: Yeah. We’re not looking for theology. It’s so simple. We’re just looking for, say look for the word but And when you see it, you say, “Is this a contrast? It’s not this but this?” And so then you see the theology. But I’m just training people very simply. how to really dig in to the word. 

BILL: And Precept publishes numerous - hundreds - of study guides…

LINDA: Right.

BILL: …on various books of the Bible. 

LINDA: Right. So I’ve yeah, I’ve been teaching that for like thirty-four years. 

BILL: And if you follow those guides, like, I lead a men’s bible study that meets every Monday night and we use the Precept books, not not to the depth that she uses when she’s teaching at THQ, but each week it’ll say, “Okay, read this chapter, look for these things, what do you get out of this? Now” - or they might point you to some corroborating scripture - “while you’re at it, look at what this guy says,” and it it all, you know, so it it just really solidifies your thinking like this is a very unified document, especially between Old Testament and New Testament, because we think, “Well that’s old and this is new, so we really don’t need to worry about the old anymore.”

LINDA: But it’s like this.

BILL: Yeah. But when you see how precisely the prophecies were of, like, Isaiah. and that that talked about Jesus being wounded for our transgressions four or five hundred years before he even came. You know, it says, “Wow, this really is a unified document.” And that’s the kind of thing that the Precept studies emphasize. They want you to see the connection. 

ROB: And that’s what you’ve been - you did s when you moved to Chicago. You did that for the territory. 

LINDA: Right, for the territory. Right. So when I - ’cause I was I was doing it in Michigan, Eastern Michigan and but that was very limited ’cause just half the state. But then people started hearing about it and inviting me outside of the state. And then I was like, “Oh my goodness, God, what am I gonna do?” Because I can only leave the state twice a year. And so then he opened the door for Chicago for the territory. So now I have eleven states that I can go and teach. So I did that, you know, with camps and conferences and just weekly Bible studies. I’m still - I started one there in 2001. 

BILL: At THQ. 

LINDA: At THQ for employees who wanted to come to a lunchtime Bible study. And it was a six-week trial. So that was in 2001. And tomorrow I’ll be teaching Hebrews. Continuation of that group. Yes. 

JAN: You talked a little bit when you guys were the specials at the corps. 

LINDA: Oh right. 

JAN: For…

JIM: The Bible Conference.

LINDA: The Bible Conference.

JAN: …the Bible conference. 

LINDA: Bible conference. 

JAN: This was fascinating to me that you both - how you work together…

LINDA: Mm-Hmm.

JAN: …because, when you were talking about - you kind of just lit up when you were talking about how you do this. So I thought maybe you could talk a little bit about when you do something together as a couple...

LINDA: Right.

JAN: ow do you do that? Like what roles do each of you take and how… 

BILL: It’s really easy. I just let her do all the work.

ROB: And then you preach, right? 

LINDA: That’s it.

BILL: No, but she’s she’s very disciplined and focused on the subject, and skilled in how to pull out the truths therein. And I’m reactionary. So what I’ll do is I’ll bring them together, we’ll sing a song, and then I’ll take notes as to what she’s talking about right then and there as somebody else is, as other people are doing, but then I’ll sort of sum it up at the end of that session and say, “I don’t know about you, but this is what I got out of this, and why don’t we finish with this song, which really speaks to that,” you know, just to tie together musically. So she did really all the sessions which are Friday night and two on Saturday. And was that it? And then then so then I spoke Sunday morning but it just sorta pulled it all together kinda thing. 

LINDA: Right.

JAN: I just think it’s - so Bill, you know, is good on his feet. And he can take that, he can take something and engage people in a different way and then bring the music into it.

LINDA: Right.

JAN: It makes it a wonderful combination of teaching I would imagine.

BILL: But she provides the structure and then I just follow it. 

LINDA: Right, kinda. 

JIM: About the structure. You said something started in 200…

LINDA: 2001, a bible study.

JIM: …and now you’re in Hebrews.

LINDA: Okay.

JIM: I mean have the same group has been going that through the Bible…

LINDA: We’ve been in Hebrews since 2001. Oh my No, we have not. [laughter] 

ROB: Russell tries to read the Bible every year and he never gets out of the Old Testament.

LINDA: Okay. Okay. No, we started we started with Abraham. It’s a - that was a six-week study. So I was just testing the waters. And after Abraham they said, “Well what are we gonna do next?” And I said, “How about Isaac.” And so we just started following through. We followed the children of Israel from Abraham all the way through the Old Testament. And we just kept going. You know, they just would say, “What’s next? What’s next?” And so we just kept going. And now, and then we did, like, covenant, the topic of covenant, and we jumped into Matthew and a lot of the New Testament books. We did Revelation. But it was so helpful to just follow the children of Israel through their whole journey and get that picture as it unfolded.

BILL: And, with addition of technology…

LINDA: Yes.

BILL: …It really helps widen your audience, too.

LINDA: So now in 2020, when we could not meet in person and went on Zoom, then some people who had been in the class and retired and moved away came back on Zoom. So now we have, like, we meet hybrid when I’m when I’m back in Chicago, we meet by hybrid, but we have twelve states and two countries that are meeting on Zoom in addition to the little group that’s - that was started out in 2001. 

JIM: In syllabus sense, are you looking at topics or are you looking at books? Are you looking at like if we had the next lesson, is it going to be. “Everyone read chapter seven,” or something? 

LINDA: It’s basically books. We go through a book. So right now we’re in part three of Hebrews. We’ve done part one and two. So we’re finishing this up in part three. So we’ll start in chapter eleven tomorrow. But then we do, there’s a couple of topics, uh Kinsman Redeemer, Covenant. 

JAN: I think about when you got married. I think about, obviously…

LINDA: Covenant.

ROB: Yeah.

LILNDA: Right.

JAN: That is the word…

LINDA: Right.

JAN: …that I will always associate with the two of you…

LINDA: Yeah.

JAN: ….between, you know, horn parts and other things.

LINDA: Right.

JAN: It’s - yeah. 

LINDA: Well that was the thing too when I - the first time I ever taught Covenant was a long time ago, and before I even thought about Bill or anybody else, you know, but I knew that if I ever got married, it was going to be covenant, because that’s what covenant is, you know. So I - so that’s why covenant was really important to me in our marriage. So the our whole wedding ceremony was all about covenant. 

BILL: In fact your wedding invitation, it was like a dictionary hit. “Cov - en - ‘nant” with the accent, you know, and the dictionary definition.

LINDA: Yeah.

BILL: “You’re invited to…” you know, it’s like that. 

LINDA: Yeah. Because I just feel so strongly about covenant being a picture of our salvation, but then also it - that’s a marriage covenant. And he wrote it in his ring so he wouldn’t forget. 

JAN: Well, one more thing, I’m sorry, but about your the way you process through the children of Israel. In my growing up and learning scripture, which I think we we had a good understand- well, um…

JIM:  We had Jean Hawson.

JAN: We were we were familiar with the Bible. 

ROB: The Army gave us a good foundation. 

JAN: I would say that never in my growing up life did I really have a good understanding of the children of Israel through the whole history.

LINDA: Right.

JAN: And I’m now at a point where this is kind of how I’m approaching it, at 72 years old, and actually trying to put these pieces together that I never put together before. So what you’re providing is so important to get an understanding of the whole scope of God in relationship with people, but also the Jewish people and their history. 

LINDA: Exactly.

JAN: It’s um…

LINDA: But you’re right, it’s so critical really to understand. It’s not like - people will do just little piece here and little piece there, you know, but you don’t get the big picture and you don’t put the puzzle together. And when I - when we did all of the children of Israel followed that all the way through, and then I taught Revelation,  it was like, “Okay, I get this now.” And looking back from Revelation to the whole Old Testament, you know, and Daniel and the all the fulfillment, but when you have the the beginning and the middle and all of it together before you do the end, you know, but yet to put it - to put it all in perspective, you know, the children of Israel, and, and you understand God much better…

JAN: Yeah.

LINDA: …when you do that.

JAN: Yeah. 

JIM: Do you have a translation that you prefer?

LINDA: I use mostly the New American Standard, because it’s a word-for-word translation. So when you’re studying you really need to have a word for word rather than a phrase-for-phrase, which, it works, but um then word for word is just deeper. Just deeper, right? And now here’s the thing, like I was saying goodbye to some couple yesterday and they had been at the Bible conference, you know, in February and and she said to me, the last thing she said to me is, “Kinsman Redeemer, I will always remember kinsman redeemer.” Because when you see that picture so clearly taught, um, she said, “I’ll never forget it.” You know. So yeah. That’s why I teach.

[Music]

JIM (voice-over): Those are just a few insights into Linda Himes, a person as you can see. With a strong sense of conviction - that’s the way Bill described her - and we’ve had a brief look at how they share their ministry. So next time, a closer look at Bill, and though there is a well-established canonical list of official Bill Himes stories, we have a few probably non-apocryphal tales to share as well when we meet again as we are Making Our Way.

Thank you for your company today.

Until next time. 

[Music ends]