Dawson's Creek S2, E12: Navigating Unchartered Waters

In this installment of Nostalgic or Problematic, Dawson and Pacey accompany their dads on a father-son fishing trip. Meanwhile, the ladies of Capeside come together (sort of) for an investigative journalism piece about the secret thoughts of teen girls, produced by Dawson's mom, Gayle. 

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Transcript

Welcome to Nostalgic or Problematic

Speaker 1 0:01

Hello everyone and welcome back to our Nostalgic, or Problematic series where we are rewatching season two of Dawson's Creek. We're on episode 12. We are already veering off of saying that we are going to do two episodes each time.

Speaker 2 0:16

Yes, we will next week although we said that last week, well, and we didn't. A little bit of time has opened up in my schedule, right.

Speaker 1 0:22

Let's just say that. We'll just say that we will probably get to, probably get to two. Okay, so we are on episode 12, called uncharted waters, and here's the summary, as a fishing tournament provides a chance for some father-son bonding. Gail's report on teenage girls exposes the friction between jen and joey. Yep, this was a heavy episode I think so too.

Speaker 2 0:42

it was a lot. There was a lot. I mean, the show is always about relationships, but there was a lot about parent relationships and kids viewing parents a certain way and parents viewing kids a certain way, and then also like the toxic part of being in relationships with your peers I'm not even going to say toxic, like girl relationships. It did kind of focus on that. But like in general, yeah, like how those all can be, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:08

It was heavy. I didn't have like tons of notes either, like I just have some and I watched this weeks ago, so I was like trying to remember, like reread it, uh-huh.

Speaker 2 1:18

I liked in the opening Pacey and Dawson are in Dawson's room and Pacey's throwing darts, yeah, and Pacey says what if darts are my destiny? And then Dawson just totally ignores it and I was like okay, I love that so much.

Speaker 1 1:34

You want to know a funny dart story? Yeah, troy is super good at darts. Okay, he used to be in a dart league that's cool. When we first started dating. That's cool when we first started dating. Yeah, he used to play darts all the time. He was really good at it, random. He's still good at it or I don't know, he hasn't played it.

Speaker 2 1:47

And you don't have dartboard at your house.

Speaker 1 1:50

We did in one of our houses, but I don't know it got lost in the move or Okay, I don't who knows Interesting.

Teenage Jealousy and Father Issues

Speaker 2 2:00

It is kind of funny because we've talked before about how articulate these teens are. So these two boys are just like having a moment throwing darts and then all of a sudden they're talking about their respect levels for their fathers. Yeah, and they're like well, do you respect your father? Well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and he's like, oh, you didn't answer the question. And then Dawson asks Pacey, and it was just kind of funny, but it was a good setup, yeah, because then as the episode goes on, yeah, it's all about dads are in it and you know all of that. But that was kind of that opening scene, um, and then I thought that it was interesting once the show started, after the intro song and stuff, when joey and dawson are talking in the hall, what did you think about joey kind of being jealous that dawson was bragging about jen?

Speaker 1 2:44

I don't even remember that. Yeah, he was.

Speaker 2 2:45

He was talking about how Joey says something offhand like oh, how's the movie going? Oh right and he's like. You know what Jen's actually doing a great job and she's this and that and Joey's like, oh well, sorry, I couldn't have been great or something, and I was like okay, that's that checks for a teenage girl.

Speaker 1 3:03

It does. I mean I think I do that in real life now.

Speaker 2 3:06

Yeah, I mean like oh, you're saying that I'm not good and it's like, no, I'm just saying this other person's right, so you didn't like it's also too.

Speaker 1 3:14

She didn't want anything to do with it. True again, but then it's like you made that choice to not be there, but you're pissed that somebody else is doing a good job at the job you didn't want.

Speaker 2 3:25

Correct, that's what she was basically yeah, yeah, yeah, but you're right, that's typical, but we all do that, we all do that or everybody wants to be missed and everybody wants to be wanted and to be irreplaceable right, right, but most of the time none of us are oh, none of us are irreplaceable, anything wow, that got dark wow okay, okay, here's a funny thing.

Speaker 1 3:45

So the sunglasses Pacey had on in the beginning of the show that he had on the rest, troy has, swear to God, had these sunglasses Like and I have pictures of us on our honeymoon in the year 20, 2005. Okay, those were the sunglasses. We look so stupid and all our clothes Like. We look back at those and we're like what the hell?

Speaker 2 4:07

Really, oh my God, I don't think I've seen any of those. Have you ever posted them on like your anniversary? No, cause, they're terrible. Oh, I want to see them, I want to see them.

Speaker 1 4:14

Oh my God, I was trying to grow out this awful haircut. Wait, you had an awful. It's a long story, we'll talk about it another day, but I also like, had this. I was like going through this halter, like this tube top phase, I don't know. I mean it was 2005.

Speaker 2 4:30

Everyone, I have pictures of myself from 2005 in a halter and I had these like striped pants that I loved, with the tube top, no Separate.

Speaker 1 4:40

I had this with some hat that I oh girl, I don't know, I don't know what I was doing. Anyway, well, I would like to see those choices. Troy's glasses are epic. Pacey had them All right. So why don't we talk about Gail and her interview concept? Yeah, I think it's interesting, and I put a smiley face by this, because I said adults are always trying to understand teenagers every decade.

Adults and Teen Relationships

Speaker 2 5:03

We will never figure it out Every time, Never. Because the way we felt as teens? Well, first of all, as time goes by, our memories change, but also humans are constantly evolving. Oh yeah, so a teen, there are some universal things, but a teen now is totally, not totally different, but going to be a lot different for a teen in 10 or 20 years. And trying to understand that. I liked the idea. I was going to ask you about it. I said the teen girl news segment idea and I wondered what your thoughts were.

Speaker 1 5:34

The only thing I didn't like was Jen calling her Gayle. I didn't even notice that that irks me because I am not your peer, like I not me. But I don't like it. When now I'm sure Gail told her, that's fine, call me Gail, whatever, but to me that's just weird because they're not peers.

Speaker 2 5:55

But I feel like yes, but I feel like for the storyline and what happens later with Joey. Maybe that's why I still don't like it.

Speaker 1 6:00

Okay, I told you that storyline and what happens later with joey. Maybe that's why I still don't like it. Okay, I think I told you that, like I don't want somebody like if I've had people's children who are like seven, eight, like, um, you know, call me danny and I'm like, but I'm not gonna correct them because that's none of my business. You want them to call you. Well, I don't know, but it's just weird like no, I mean like I'm genuinely asking.

Speaker 2 6:21

I'm not asking like would it be mrs combs, would it be? No, I don't know, but it's just weird. Like no, I mean like I'm genuinely asking. I'm not asking Like would it be Mrs Combs, would it be Miss Danny? No, I don't want to be called Miss Combs, probably Miss Danny. I just feel like that feels right when you're a small child.

Speaker 1 6:42

Like I had an old neighbor whose kids, like you know, they just in me that you do not. Now we didn't. We never taught our kids to say sir or ma'am, because it irks my husband, cause he's like you can say use manners be respectful without that and it drives my, my stepdad, crazy, because he wants them to and he will correct them and he will say no, you say no, sir, and I'm like actually in our house don't correct my own kids. So I would never tell somebody's kid actually bitch.

Speaker 2 7:08

Yeah. Actually seven year old, I don't know. I mean, I guess most people just call me miss Katie, I've never really noticed.

Speaker 1 7:16

Maybe because I'm short, they don't call me miss.

Speaker 2 7:20

Maybe they're like she's our peer, she's our height, did you see?

Speaker 1 7:22

that. Did you see what I put in my story today? No, okay, it was this quote. And it said nobody, or what did it say? And it said, um, nevermind, I'm going to mess it up. It said kids, I'll look at it. It says kids to me oh, I'm almost as tall as me, I, I'm almost as tall as you. And then it says me shut up, motherfuckers, you're like true, but go away.

Speaker 2 7:49

Yes, Gosh, that's so funny?

Speaker 1 7:50

That's not.

Speaker 2 7:51

That wasn't what the quote said, whatever, I messed that up Right, let's go back to Dawson's. Okay, and then my next question was Jack on fishing trip.

Speaker 1 7:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2 7:58

So was Pacey wrong for not warning Dawson and Jack. Yeah, the other would be there, and do you think it really was an oversight or did he do it on purpose?

Speaker 1 8:05

He's a teenage boy. It was an oversight, it was an oversight.

Speaker 2 8:08

Okay, but he should have told them.

Speaker 1 8:09

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 8:10

Yeah, because they got beef, yeah. And then Jack, not understanding the water at all and wearing a life vest and stuff what?

Speaker 1 8:17

was that all about?

Speaker 2 8:17

That'd be me, me yeah, but like, aren't they from? I know they just moved to capeside, but aren't they from somewhere that? Was because you're from new england doesn't mean you know about water okay okay, so the next question what was the point of making that character choice for jack? Why did we need to know, just to be different, that he's an outsider? Really, really, I am really really into this. I am really having some existential crisis here I was like why?

Speaker 1 8:49

Why did they make this character choice of him not knowing about the water? I don't, katie, I do not know.

Speaker 2 8:55

I don't know, Like I was, like, are they trying to say that he is like not as masculine as everybody else because he's not how to? I don't think it's that deep I think it's just like you're an outsider yeah, you know how to do all these things and you're still learning, I think.

Speaker 1 9:08

Okay, I think it was just to maybe push on the point that he's the new kid.

Girls Finding Porn and Fishing Trip Drama

Speaker 2 9:12

It doesn't fit in. Okay, that answers my question. A lot of question marks on my page.

Speaker 1 9:18

This is weird, um okay, I, I literally don't have that much. The girls finding the porn in Dawson's room was hilarious. That was so funny Because that's so typical, right?

Speaker 2 9:29

Yeah, and didn't she say it's called Goodwill hunting, humping? Oh, I thought she actually said Goodwill hunting.

Speaker 1 9:35

And then in the next scene, when they're watching a porn, I was like, oh, he put it he disguised it in that box, Humping Well maybe it was Goodwill humping in the Goodwill hunting box, maybe I don't remember, but it did make me think it's such a different vibe for a bunch of teenage girls sitting around when they're watching porn than it is when teenage boys watch the porn. Right, and I feel not and I'm not going to, I don't want to put any gender stereotypes on anybody but it's funny because they're sitting there like oh my God, like what? And they know it's fake, right. So they were commentating like oh gosh, how do they do that? Blah, blah, blah, and they're like whatever. And I'm like it's so funny because I can remember the first time of seeing some porn and it was with girlfriends we found whatever and it was the exact same reaction, like I think they got that right and I did that.

Speaker 2 10:34

Gail didn't really react, she was just like girls get out of here. Come on and they're like oh, your son's porn, she's like. She's like, okay, like, because she was just very like whatever. Um, I abby had a good line. When she's talking to the camera guy, she says you must be built, ram tough. I wrote that down. I thought that was a good line. I loved that oh yeah, so the the porn was funny and then on the boat you know so okay, so the whole episode.

Speaker 2 11:02

Pacey's dad is yes, he's a dick and he's horrible and like, even when he's like proud of pacey, then it's like short-lived yeah, and then it's like it's like, um, like a shallow pride, yeah, instead of just loving him, to love him, it's like based on something he did for a brief moment or whatever. But he says this line I was gonna see what. See what you thought? Well, we hate him, so you're probably this is funny.

Speaker 1 11:26

This is the most interesting Dawson's Creek take we've had. Okay, yes, what is the question?

Speaker 2 11:31

You're like, I'm listening. It's like, frazier, you're my therapist today. Okay, Not really. Neither of us are licensed therapists, oh God. No, we need professional help and we do seek it. Therapists, we know we need professional help and we do seek it out.

Speaker 1 11:43

And we do have professional help. We do.

Speaker 2 11:45

Okay, Please don't come to us for it, Okay. Pacey's dad says to him on the boat. This is the quote a lot of things in life suck. It's my job to prepare for that inevitability Thoughts. Is that a parent's job?

Speaker 1 12:00

Okay, I don't know if I'd word it that way, but I do tell my kids all the time like life is not fair, like well, because my kids have like a big age gap, right, they're almost six years apart. So we hear a lot from one or the other like well, so you know he doesn't have to do this or why does he get to that. And I'm like they're like it's not fair and I'm I do say no, it's not fair, but life isn't fair. So sometimes you people do get to have things you don't, for whatever reason, whether they're older, younger, right, et cetera. So I get what he's saying. Yeah, and I do think it's your job as a parent to, kind of, you have to love your kids, but you do have to prepare that Like you can't just spoil them and put them in a bubble.

Speaker 2 12:44

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 12:46

So I think in his case he was saying like I mean he's an ass, but it's okay for me to be mean to you because other people are going to mean to you, which is not what you're saying.

Speaker 2 12:52

No, I'm not saying that, but I get his thought, but it's not all sunshine and rainbows, yeah, and that like, when you face a hardship, you face the hardship, yes, for example, I have people, friends in my life over the years, who, if they're kids, first of all they will request teachers for them to have.

Speaker 1 13:10

This is friends that I don't currently have in my vernacular local area right now, just so all y'all know that, yep, we're not sharing everybody's business out here. They will request certain teachers and not for, like, a learning reason or whatever like that Right right, right, just because whatever. Or if a kid's having a problem, they just take them out of the class and move them. And I won't do that. I have never done that for my kids, but it's never gotten to the point where it's interfering with their learning. If it's extreme, if there was extreme, if, like, they're not learning, or abuse, I don't know. But I tell them this is part of life. You have to learn how to deal with people that you may not get along with, and they might be your boss, they might be your coworker. It's part of life. So suck it up and kind of figure it out Like yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 14:02

Relationship conflict too. That's a hard one, but it's, it's, yeah, that's important.

Joey's Insecurity and Gail's Intervention

Speaker 1 14:06

So I mean I guess that's like I feel like our generation is is um. We're like the helicopter parents and like the let's just make your life as easy as possible, and I'm kind of trying. We don't do that. I mean, and I don't want to say everybody is but it no, no no, it is become more common. Yeah, yeah. So I get what he's saying, but also he's mean yeah, that's different. It's never okay to be mean to anybody.

Speaker 2 14:32

Well, and I always say to my kids and you might feel the same way, especially if they're mean to each other or whatever, like there'll be enough people in situations in the world that are negative and mean and not nice. Don't bring it home.

Speaker 1 14:46

Well, and I tell mine, I say all the time look, you can be mad and you can be mad at me. You can be pissed at me, or your brother or your dad, you can be grumpy, but it's never okay and that's okay. It's never okay to be mean. Yeah, totally, totally yeah. You know like, feel your feels. If you want to be mad and pissed, feel it, but that doesn't give you entitlement to be mean, even if somebody else is mean to you.

Speaker 2 15:11

Well, that crosses the line where it's outside of your bubble.

Speaker 1 15:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:15

And now you're infringing on someone else's like mental health and well-being and all the things.

Speaker 1 15:20

Anyway.

Speaker 2 15:21

Exactly Okay. Moving on Sorry, I have so many questions today.

Speaker 1 15:25

I know we're running out of time too.

Speaker 2 15:26

Okay, we're past the porn one let's see. Oh, that whole scene where Joey basically accuses Jen of like stealing her place.

Speaker 1 15:34

Oh, I put a frowny face Okay. I said true Question mark Katie, am I okay?

Speaker 2 15:41

I don't know. What do you think?

Speaker 1 15:47

I just said I didn't like that. I just said that was mean. Honestly, she was being mean. I did think that was mean telling her oh, you're trying to be me like bitch. No, like, let her figure her shit out.

Speaker 2 15:53

I just thought that was mean yeah, and I mean jen basically didn't say she was mean, but she basically said that's your insecurity, right? And which it was yeah, I agreed, I totally agreed with jen. Yeah, um, oh and okay. So this so reminded me of myself and maybe something a kid would say about me Totally different topic, but when they're in the tavern, yeah, dawson.

Speaker 1 16:14

The bar yeah.

Speaker 2 16:16

And they're like playing pool and Dawson says I hope my dad doesn't have too much fun tonight or like tomorrow he's going to be the owner of a tavern on the seashore or whatever, Because at first I thought he meant because he separated from the mom, like something would happen and I'm like oh no, he's afraid he's going to start a new business. And I was like. My kids probably think that every time I'm anywhere and I'm like that's cool, they're like oh no, oh, no, mom, oh no, new website coming soon.

Speaker 2 16:42

So I think that was funny. That's funny. What did you think about Gail asking Abby to leave when she was being mean to everyone? Valid.

Speaker 1 16:51

Because it's her house and she was being disrespectful. Well, you know, it's interesting because I feel we've talked about this in recent days One person can ruin a whole vibe. Oh yeah, like, even if the entire room is on a great, positive, happy, energetic vibe, all it takes is one person to come in and fuck it all up. And that's what she was doing.

Speaker 2 17:11

yeah, she was, and she was being ugly and so it was like part, yes, gail's house, and she was like the older woman with the maybe more mature approach to things, but also it was gail's work.

Speaker 1 17:21

Well, that's what I mean. She was messing up the whole project because they couldn't the other girls?

Speaker 2 17:26

couldn't be open and vulnerable because it wasn't like a safe space. Yeah, so I was down with that. Yeah, I like that too. And same thing Dawson's dad. Just good timing for watching this episode. Dawson's like, don't you think you should be getting a job? Like, why did you come fishing this weekend? Don't you think you should blah blah blah? Why did you come fishing this weekend? Don't you think you should blah blah blah? Which is very oldest child, only child etc.

Speaker 2 17:51

To be um and mitch goes into this whole thing. I just need something I can put my heart and passion. I actually put a smiley face I loved that.

Pacey's Emotional Beach Confession

Speaker 1 17:58

I did too. I needed that and I mean, you know there's not a lot of people who get to do that. You know you don't have and you don't have a lot of people who get to do that. You know you don't have and you don't have a lot of time. Cooper reminded me today as I was driving him to school. He said something about somebody So-and-so is 39 or 38. Talking about an athlete and he's like they say he's young. I was like he is young. He's like no, it's like he is young. He's like no, it's like his life is already half over. The life expectancy is like 80. I was like well, not for me. And he goes. Well, you don't get to choose that. I said, well, I'm choosing it right now.

Speaker 2 18:36

I was like get out my car. Okay, doomsday, doomsday, combs, Hello.

Speaker 1 18:45

But you's 12, almost 13 he just likes to argue, right, yeah and he is right I love it, though, but also, like I you know, not everybody gets to like fulfill their passions and follow their passions, so it was a good reminder.

Speaker 2 18:59

It was a good reminder yeah, um, okay, yes, we only have a couple minutes left couple minutes lesson.

Speaker 2 19:04

So let's just get to the part where gail is talking to Joey. So Joey is feeling insecure because of Jen, basically the whole episode, yeah. And so then Gail has this whole moment with her where she's like, oh, it was really like sad watching you guys interact, because I always wished I had a daughter, but then I realized you're my surrogate daughter, like I get to have all these experiences through you and I care about you, and I thought that was kind of sweet.

Speaker 1 19:27

I put a frowny by it you didn't like it.

Speaker 2 19:29

It's putting too much on Joey, uh-huh. Okay, it also kind of. Now that I think about it, since Joey's mom has passed, it's almost like saying well, I appoint myself now to be that person which isn't really Gail's choice.

Speaker 1 19:43

Yeah, I think that's why I didn't like it.

Speaker 2 19:45

I didn't think about that until like right now.

Speaker 1 19:47

Yeah, I think that's why I didn't like it, and maybe it's because I did have a parent pass away in my childhood and if somebody would have told me that, I would not have enjoyed that. Yeah, but anyway, I also speaking of relatives, pacey and his dad okay, the moment where pacey just pours his heart out to his dad and he's passed out drunk on the beach, he's crying.

Speaker 2 20:15

I just oh, that scene was wow a lot.

Speaker 2 20:19

I I mean, it was heavy but then also I was like man joshua jackson is a good actor, what the heck like I'm like feeling, like feeling this because he does such a good job really in every role he does, but in this role specifically of being that very surface level jokester, kind of whatever. But there's these moments they pick for him in the show where it's like he can sink into, like the depths of that. Or even the last episode when he was telling Andy, it's because I'm falling desperately in love with you, like to really like, and maybe it's because the surface level's so high up here to go deep. But yeah, that well, that scene was a lot. It was a lot. It's a heavy episode, yeah, and that was mainly yeah, that's all I got.

Speaker 2 20:59

Oh, the only thing I said was when abby's mom picked her up in the morning I said I really wanted to see Abby's mom. Me too. I was like what does she look like? No, it was just like a very blurry nondescript.

Speaker 1 21:12

Dang it Like the Muppet Babies nanny.

Speaker 2 21:15

Never see her face. Is that how she goes?

Speaker 1 21:17

No, that's Charlie Brown teacher. Okay, nanny, you just see her legs. Yeah, they used to drive me crazy when I was a kid.

Episode Wrap and Recommendations

Speaker 2 21:26

I'm like see her legs. Yeah, aw, they used to drive me crazy when I was a kid. I'm like show her face, show her face, yeah, Anyway. Well, that was fun. I don't know I feel weird after that. I just said that was fun. You're like hmm, okay, it was just a heavy episode. It was heavy. If you're listening to, if you haven't listened to, neverending Story, that's the one You're missing out. That's the one. Listen to that now. That's the one That'll perk you up. You can hear my enlightened review of it.

Speaker 1 21:54

Yeah, awesome she does like, falcor I do like.

Speaker 2 21:57

Falcor. Well, thanks for listening. Thanks everybody, bye, bye.