Boy Band Series: Boy Band Confidential Watch

We wrap up our Boy Band Series today by talking about the four-part docuseries, Boy Band Confidential, produced by NSYNC's Joey Fatone.

Parts of this one are heavy -- so listen with care. 

And backtrack to the rest of our Boy Band Series anywhere you listen to the podcast!

Sources for this episode include:

Boy Band Confidential on Hulu or HBO Max

Episode Topics and Mentions:

NSYNC

Backstreet Boys

Boyz II Men

O-Town

LFO

98 Degrees

Forever in Your Mind

Lou Pearlman

Jive Records

Joey Fatone 

Lance Bass

AJ McLean

Nick Lachey

Wanya Morris

Shawn Stockman

Ashley Parker Angel

Brad Fischetti

Jason Galasso

Ricky Garcia

Joby Harte

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Transcript

Cold Open And New Table

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The guy with the hair and the t-shirt, too. We were like, who is this guy? Well, anyway, he wasn't on it. Whoever that guy is. Hello everyone, and welcome back to Generation in Between, a Xennial podcast. You are here on our last episode for now of our boy band series. I'm Katie. And I'm Danny, and I'm still struggling with this setup. So if you didn't listen to the last episode yet, we uh we have a table. And it's not that big a deal.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I don't know why. It's throwing my whole universe off when we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yeah, you're gonna get it. You're gonna get it. Katie loves it so much. I love it so much. Why do you love it? I don't know. I just feel like I can I can be like closer to you because we have that table between us. And I don't know. I like having my notes in front of me, not like shuffling them around on my lap. I feel like I can like look up more than I could. Okay. I feel like maybe you have dreams of being a newscaster. I I mean, probably.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

I think that's it. I'd be happy to. I feel for asking what I just was watching our like trying to make little clips for socials. I'm like, what am I even doing with my hands? I'm doing weird stuff the whole time. Like, I was like putting my hands on the table. I kept putting my hands. I never sit with my hands on my face. Why was I doing that? That is not something I do. You were just so intrigued by my story today. I was like crossing my hands like a cat in front of me.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yeah. Well, what? This is your big cat moment. It's time. I don't know. Well, Katie has a notebook today. Okay, yes, let's start there. There's a lot we need to talk about, probably. But if you're watching on the YouTube born in the 80s, there's a bunch of multicolored mixtapes on the front. Uh, friend, loyal listener of the pod, Sarah, bought me this for my birthday, which was earlier this week. I love me a useful birthday present. Several notebooks, actually, but I decided since it's my birthday week, born in the 80s, I'm gonna start with this notebook. And I have my notes for today and for Dawson's Creek. Oh my god. I'm shocked. There's no envelopes.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

There's no random. Although she now.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Oh no, oh no, no. Because I did.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

That's cheating. It's this has nothing to do with the podcast. It's just a piece of paper I need for later that has um some stuff on it, and I didn't want to forget it. So here it is.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

But that's good. The notebook's keeping it all in one spot. Is there money falling out of the front?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Katie did almost uh not be able to find her key when her husband was dropping her. Yes. That's because I was busy eating a burrito and it fell like a seat. This is why it's always hilarious of like watching Katie arrive somewhere or like if you go travel with her. Because she has like, well, obviously she's here working all day, so she's got a lot of stuff going on. She has to bring food. She got all her music, she got podcast stuff, everything else. But it's always like when you're unpacking your stuff, it's almost like you're surprised at what you find. Every time it's like, wait, no, it's not. And I'm like, you literally just put stuff in that bag.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I will say, like, Wednesdays are my day at home. So what happens on Wednesdays is I tend to like grab things that I know I'll need the next day. So I am putting stuff in my bag as I already did it the day before. So like I knew I need to give you the Star Wars shirt back. So that got folded up and put in there yesterday. And then the microphone uh I grabbed out of Brandt's backpack because he'd been holding on to that after the book reading. So I put that in there. And so it was just it kind of stacks up. But Sarah could vouch for that too. She handed me many a thing while traveling. I'd be like standing there with my bags with the children waiting for the next step, and she'd bring me my purse. Oh, Lord. She brought me my phone, one.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Lord help you there, because I will never forget that time we were at that hotel. She could not find her ID. And it was like, all she had was a belt bag.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

And I'm like, where is all this stuff coming from? I'm glad you said that because I took my daughter to an eye appointment yesterday and didn't have my ID. So I need to track that down. I know they still let her do the appointment. Where where your ID should be in your bag on the code. I opened my wallet, my cards were in it. So I think I must have taken it out. You know how sometimes I'm gonna blame the apps. How sometimes you have to do like a picture of your ID now for like verification. I think that's what happened. Let's blame the apps. I set it by the my desk. It's gotta be the apps, guys. It's not me. Okay. It's gotta be. I will say the notebook, step one. I did clean and reorganize my entire closet yesterday. So it's easy to get what I need to wear when. What does that have to say with the notebook? Well, what I'm saying is part of that closet cleaning is you had mentioned, like, oh, we have this podcast bag is to go ahead and now make some designated bags. I see, I see. So put the notebook in the bag. I didn't get to that step today. I was like, you didn't bring that bag. No, but I it's it's coming. One thing at a time, step by step. Habit stacking. You're right. That's what I'm gonna call it. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Habit stacking. Habit stacking. I know that I'm bringing my notebook, so I shall also bring my bag. Love that. With all the things. So for this week, we didn't do research. In fact, I mean, other than watching the four-part docuseries, Boy Bay and Confidential. Well, I only watched three parts because Hulu did not have the fourth part. I can talk about it a little. That's fine. You should watch it at some point. I would say it's the lightest of the four, so you'd probably enjoy it. Thank God. Because let me tell well, we'll get there, but yeah, some of this was was heavy because, you know, there's storytelling. But the fourth one was similar to the third one. It was just like extra stories that didn't make it into the first two parts. Okay. But a lot of them were pretty light. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

I'll watch it eventually when Hulu gets it. Because you know, it's a I guess it was on HBO. It was on HBO. But Hulu, it's like it's delayed. So as of yesterday, it may be there today, but I ain't got I ain't got time. That's okay. So I was like, yes.

Tech Week Tales From Shrek

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yesterday I had time. Y'all I'm in tech week. I'm about to die. I'm so tired. Like, listen, if y'all are not in theater and you don't know what tech week is. What is tech week? Tell me. I mean, it's basically you're running the show uh as much as you can, fixing everything up until you open. But it is long and it is tiring. And especially when it's just community theater and you still have regular life. Like I'm not paid to do like this is not my paid job. Because even in paid performer life, tech week's rough. Of course. Yeah, it's the show's gonna be great, but it's a it's a big show, so it's tiring. Like it's tiring no matter how big the show is. But I'm like, I was not this tired when I was in tech week for just a straight play. Like that's more like vocally tiring because you're talking, I think, or maybe not even because this one you're singing and dancing. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

But what you said about it being a big show is true. Like you can even do a musical that's minimal to medium lift, but you do a Shrek and everyone, well, not everyone, but a lot of people are in multiple costumes, wigs, the set pieces are huge. Guys, puppets, there's all kinds of things. It's a huge show.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

We have a 400-pound dragon that I'm helping. See what I mean? That's crazy. You didn't have that in uh move over, Miss Marco. And I was thinking Christmas Carol, I chilled in that dressing room more than I was on the stage. But I mean, I love this, I love it. I love this kind of show. I have like, I really don't even have a break until I was on K like Act Two at some point. Even intermission, I'm changing and grabbing my. I have four wigs, maybe five. Hold on. It's crazy. A wig quick change. Have you ever done a wig quick change? Stress. I don't think so. Girl, it is stress. Oh my god. Stress. Because we have these beautiful wigs. Shout out to Mo, who has made, I don't even know. For this show, probably. Oh my God. Because everybody has multiple. And and some of them are elaborate. Like I have a Rapunzel wig, elaborate, this queen wig. It's a so you like I can't just rip it off, is what I mean. Right. My elf wig will. She got a different story.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

And that one's like, I can't wait for that. I don't think I'm gonna I I definitely will be there by closing weekend, obviously. But I might be able to come the weekend before it's just graduation weekend. Girl. So I don't want to like encase. Although, to be honest, graduation's on a Friday, she probably me with her friends all weekend. So I probably could come that Saturday, but I'm just gonna wait and see. Because I can't wait to see it. The longer you wait, the better. I mean, there is that too. And I've gone to shows where I've gone like opening night or invited dress, and then I go back the final weekend, and I was like, oh, okay. So I always thought it was to go.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Well, he always comes invited dress when we're on a show, but then he likes to come back during on closing night because he's like, it's so fun to see. He's like, it's always good, but it's so fun to see the difference. Yeah. Because by then, and he doesn't know, he's not a performer, because then you know the show like the back of your hand. You got your quick changes down, you know when you can pee, you know, like you're comfortable, and you've at this point you've built relationships with the cast, so you're having fun, and plus you know it's your last time. And I think that says a lot. When you know it's your last show, everybody just kind of be like, give it every not like you don't always, but y'all know what I mean. I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

It's like there's like that little bit of whatever left emotion that you didn't even know you had in there, and you curl it out.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

I agree. Um, I can't wait. Can I tell you y'all wanna hear? I'll tell y'all some funny stories about Tech Week instead of just complaining how tired I am. So there, if y'all have seen Shrek the Musical, there's a tap dancing rat scene. Okay, and this isn't ruining anything because you can look it up on the dang YouTube. It starts off with you just sing feet, and then you see the whole and it's different dancers. We come in at different times, but we're dressed as like fancy rats, okay? Well, the other night was our first night with all our accoutrement, including a snap on tail. That's very long. This wonderful lady, Tracy, is dancing next to me. You know, we're like the two oldest in that number, so we're just holding it down the best we can, guys. Her tail flies off. Now, if you're not a theater person nor a dancer, you have to, if something is on the ground when dancing is happening or movement is happening, you have to get it off the stage as soon as possible. That is like safety is first. Like, you don't have to hit your choreo. So I see her tail fly off and I'm like, okay, she's gonna grab that, right? And she's right next to me. So the tail is like right there in between us. Like, she's gonna grab that, right? She's not grabbing it, so I'm like, all right, I'm just gonna grab it. So I grab it, but I'm in the middle of the stage, so I can't, I have a I have a shitty throw. So I'm like, I can't throw it because then I it might hit somebody. It'll still be on stage. So I'm dancing with the rat tail in my hand for like the whole song. And then you I go over to this, I finally move spots and I get to the side of the stage where I can throw it and I toss it as hard as I can, but Shrek's standing there about to make an entrance. I almost hit him with a giant whip of a rat tail. It was so funny, and I was like, Well, okay. And that member was funny. There was like, it was almost like we were like like rats that were rotting on stage because there were tails falling off, there was feet flying, oh my god, cumber buns, they're like coming apart. We're like, what is this sewer rat? What is this happening? But anyway, tech week, it is grueling. I am tired. That dragon is amazing. Ugh, I can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

But we tired. I feel like tonight's a little bit of a payoff, right? Because it's time to have an audience. And the first time you have an audience, helps it does, it does, even though you're tired of energy.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

And I was talking to Chase, who's playing Shrek, last night, and I was like, keep it up. We were like almost to the end of act two. I was like, You're almost there, you're doing great. And he's like, and you know, it's a lot like him and Fiona are busy and donkey, those three, they don't leave the stage much, but he's also wearing prosthetics and like a giant fake belly, and that's exhaust. Like that is physically draining. Yeah. So I was like, You're almost there. And he goes, he looked at me and he's like, Yeah, I need an audience. He's like, I somebody make me feel like all this. Uh it's time. He's like, We need an audience. And I'm like, I know, you're right. Because it's hard when you're acting to nothing, and it's a funny show. So, like, right, when you just and like Jared and Dom have seen this too, nobody's laughing, they know what's coming, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:50

And it's and they're looking at it from a technical standpoint, right? Like they're looking for the details and stuff. You know, as a directory the the story. Although I was just talking to my team here, I had done sound for one of our recent productions because um and then the director. And I mean, it was fine. Wait, did I do yeah, okay. I was like, wait, did I do sound? Yes, I did. And um, but my problem, and this is something I would have to correct, if I ever want a career in the tech booth, I would just get so wrapped up in the show. Oh shit. I'd be watching the show, like, and I would hear Brooke, who's the director next to me go three, two, one, like about to go, and I'd be like, Where am I? So I finally was like, you just have to like follow the book. So hard. Not the actors. In some some cases, you were waiting for a cue from the actors, but I would just be like, enjoying the show. She's like, Oh, they sound so great. And then here comes my cue, and I'm like, What cue? What do you mean? What am I doing?

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Hello? I'm telling you, there's these trees that move around a lot in the show. Like, set like tech stuff stresses me the fuck out. I could never, never do it. And I tell them all the time, y'all are amazing. I couldn't do it. It's too hard. Like, yes, performing is hard, but that shit's harder because that is really hard. Listen, you have to, and it's critical. If you put something a centimeter in the wrong spot, you can buck up an actor or a scene. You can break shit, you can break people. Like, it is so, and we have these trees that roll around a lot. And I swear they're the bane of our all existence. Like, we are never getting them in the right spots. I have to do a whole scene where I'm me and Gina are moving around these trees at different points in the music, and Donkey and Shrek are dancing around them. So, like, and we can't see. So, we fucking have Donkey Down. No more donkey. And he's a little guy. I'm like, I was like, this is so the tree, the trees are the bane, but it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. But anyway, it's gonna be fantastic. If you're also watching, I have another star because my skin's like stressful week. Cool zitz. Let's add.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

You've got your little star patch. It's great.

Starting Boy Band Confidential

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Let's talk about this documentary. All right, let's do it. Okay, so let me just talk a little bit about it. So, Boy Band Confidential, like I said, I watched it on HBO Max, where all four, it's only four-part series, are there. Danny's been watching it on Hulu when it shows up. Yeah. It's a little warm in here. I'm still sweating. Well, also I'm just also hot right now. And it was executive produced by Joey Fatone of InSync Fame. That being said, I it's interesting because I felt like there was a lot of inclusion of certain boy groups, but then some that weren't mentioned, which I'm sure there's some who like didn't agree. Yeah. And even within the groups, Joey and Lance from InSync were on it, but none of the other three were on it. Other than like old video of them or photos, but they weren't on it. And the only backstreet boy was AJ. I know. But then there were two guys from 98 Degrees, and then there were a few other, like like O Town, which was a little bit like past, you know, the 90s and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Well I'm not surprised that Nick Carter is not on it. Because he got he got a lot of legal problems. And there's been a lot of like documentaries against him.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

So I bet he was like, I'm not, I'm not even not even putting myself out there. I don't blame him. And that being said, I guess if you had like literally every member of every group, it would just be way too long anyway. I'm just curious, like if I feel like Joey probably asked way more people than actually showed up on the show. I'm sure. But anyway, I thought the whole thing overall was really well done. Um, we'll get into it. Okay, so the first episode, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Do you know what I wish he would have talked to? Is I wish he would have talked to somebody from New Kids. Because they talked about them so much in the beginning. I know. And I'm like, I wonder if they even asked, because it seems like at least one would talk to them. Easily.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Like they're pretty open about everything. The only thing I can think is it was very Lou Pearlman coded. Like it wasn't a documentary about Lou Pearlman, but it kind of was a documentary about Lou Pearlman. And it was almost all like Orlando groups. 98 Degrees was an exception, I guess. But boys to men. And boys to men, that's true. But um, I don't I don't know if that had something to do with it or if they just wanted that like turn turn of the century, late 90s, and you know, I I don't know. Yeah, I thought that was interesting because I would have thought the new kids, and they all like gave props to the new kids. Like they're like, oh, they're amazing. And I and I had the same thought. Like they were like, they're like you know Donnie Wahlberg's butt will be on here talking about him. Why not? Like no, I thought it was weird. Just ask him.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Um, wipe your eye.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

It's that's this one is it No,

Episode One: Influence And Race

SPEAKER_00 16:20

it's underneath.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Underneath. I think it's massive mascara. Oh yeah. It'd be doing that on my face all the time. Yeah, you good.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Got it. Okay. It was the other eye, guys. Oh, this is crazy. I'm evening it out. It's okay. So episode one was about an hour and 20 minutes, I'd say. I did say I felt validated because boys to men are on it. I know, I was glad they were. They were on it. And and they did say like some of the quotes I had where they were like, we really aren't a boy band, but but so many of the boy bands referenced them. Right. I think that's that I was like, it's good that they were on here. And the some of the struggles they talked about, and they talked about their um manager being killed on tour. That was awful. Terrible. So I was glad, and it was all three. See, that's the thing. There were three of them. Was there another one? Um thought it was. It was Wanyye, Sean. Oh, was it just the two of them?

SPEAKER_01 17:07

I think it was just the two of them. Okay, yeah. You're right. It was just the two of them. It was just the two of them. But you know, I am glad that he brought them on. I'm glad they agreed to do it, but I love how like Boys from Men's like, well, hold on. Y'all need to know we're not really a boy band. Yeah, like we're here, but like we're different than y'all. And I'm like, you are. I also am glad that they address the whole race component. Yes. Because so many of these all Caucasian, well, mostly Caucasian white people groups. I mean, AJ and Howie and then O Town. Oh, that's true. Well, I'm I guess I'm just talking about like in sync and backstreet and 98 degrees. And they were like, oh, boys to men, and we'll talk about them. We get there, there's our influence, which is fine. You should be influenced by multiple groups. But I think the problem was recognizing, and they said it, I don't remember if it was Sean or Wannie. I think it was Sean. But they're like, you know, they're doing what we did, but like they're out here making the money and like getting these things we didn't get. And he even said, I think it was Sean who said, Well, you think about the mass appeal and you know, some white boy and a boy band and teen beat is more acceptable to middle class family on the wall than uh, you know, a black man and boys to men. And I was like, I'm glad that they kept that in. I mean like if you think that racism is not prevalent in every industry in this country, you're wrong. And that I mean, it's just it's glaringly obvious, especially during that time, where the money went to who we were elevating, whose voices, but it's crazy because it's like, and I mean, this is happening, this has been happening since the beginning of music. I mean, look at Elvis, all his stuff he stole from other people and black people directly. And but then he's the one that benefited. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yeah, and I think Sean listed a few other people too that was like the same kind of thing. I don't remember who exactly, but yeah, it I mean, I thought that that was really important. I I think it's great that so many people um in the documentary did reference their influence, but yeah, that was that was a whole thing. Um oh, I said it was weird too that we were seeing people who we had researched, like that Johnny Wright guy, manager. I was like, oh, this is weird. How did he what's your opinion on him? I was gonna ask you the same thing. I didn't really love him, but in the very final one, which you haven't seen yet, he redeemed himself a little. Okay, because he comes across as not the best. And he's like, I told Kevin he couldn't go to that party. Did you hear that story? I think that was on the third one. That was on the third one. Third one. You know, Kevin was of age and wanted to go to this party, and he's like, I told security to yank him out of there. Yeah, that's right. And I get it. And but then that was a little like, okay, whatever, you are supposed to kind of protect them, whatever. But when he was talking about like the pitting of Backstreet Boys against in sync, that and he was like, Well, I told them like the Backstreet Boys, like, if you don't want me, that's fine. But then I'm gonna come at you within sync, at least if if I'm managing both of you, I can kind of and I was just like, geez.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

But again, I mean, in the business world, I guess you have to be like that if you want to make money. So yeah, he he wasn't my favorite. He wasn't my favorite either. I didn't hate him, but I was like, I don't know about this guy. He seems kind of just came across to me as like very um I don't know, I can't think of the right word. He just he wasn't very humble and he wasn't very like authentic with his care for them. Like I felt like it they were just all the groups were just dollar signs, even even though he but then every now and then he'd say something, like when they were talking about Aaron Carter dying, and he was he was visibly upset. I mean, as he should be. So I don't know. He was he was kind of one this is my thing in life. Katie and I have talked about this. When I can I can't figure people out, I don't like it. Like I don't when people are not open books and I'm not sure where you land, I don't like that. I don't like that. And that's how he is. I don't know where he is.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Yeah. So I just meh now he talked a little more about so this is the part where I was kind of like, all right, maybe we have a little redemption arc for him at the very end. But you can just tell me they talked more about um Aaron Carter's death, and they told the whole story of how Aaron would come like to stuff that Nick was. No, that wasn't the third one. Oh, that was in the third one? Oh, okay. And so he I felt like Johnny Wright was taking a little bit of responsibility for the way that fame kind of chewed Aaron up and spit him back out. Because maybe this was in the fourth one. He he was talking about it and he was like, I'm the one that told you this was the third one. Yeah. And then he was like, you know, I feel bad that like I introduced him to whatever. Now, of course, like someone would have spotted this kid, like this, you know. But even then, Johnny Wright was like, But you know, it's because they They didn't keep me as a manager. Right. So I couldn't control it. And I was like, well, which is it? Well, which one is it? Are you mad about that? Or are you actually upset that this kid went through all this and then died? That was crazy. So I think I figured it out later. But I wrote down this in the opening of the first one. Joey is in the recording house, the one that has the bowling area. Oh, yeah. In Orlando, yeah. And I'm like, is this house just like frozen in time?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

I think it I think it was repossessed or something when he went to jail.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

But you know what I remembered from my research? They they didn't stay with Lou, they stayed with Johnny Wright. So I wonder if that's Johnny Wright's house and he's just left it. Or they repositioned it. Him and his wife, they would go over there to rehearse and bowl and yeah. Because I remember the two-lane bowling alley was in there. So it must be Johnny's house. I guess. So maybe that's how they got in there. But I had the same thought because if they would have repossessed it, you would have thought they would have took all that stuff there.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Well, like you know that other oh, you haven't watched the bo the Baxter Boys documentary. They go to Lou Perlman's actual house. Oh wow. And they're like looking in the windows and stuff. And they they actually got in and it was just like abandoned. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Interesting. But I think the way that Joey got into this house is because Johnny Price lives there or owns it or whatever. It was a bang, like it was abandoned. Well, the way they showed it though when Joey was in there, it was kind of dark and shadowy. So that's what made me think that. But I bet it's just his normal house. But anyway, I mean they made it look like that on purpose. I said too, like what Sean said about white artists singing black music. Um, oh, 98 degrees to feed into this. Let's talk about that. They were like, yeah, they um, first of all, they they said they were the first white boy group that Motone ever signed. Is that true though? I can't imagine that is true. I think it must be. Wow. Well, not the first white artist. You have your phone.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Look it up, bro.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

I'll look it up. Um, but they said they were supposed to be the white Joe Dicey.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Right. Which that is so problematic. I mean, you should be like I said, you should be inspired. You should listen to all kinds of music, and you should be inspired by multiple groups of people, but you have no business emulating a whole people group that has been dehumanized and pushed to the side and had laws against them. Like, that's not okay. That's not okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

And they and they were from Ohio. Right. Some Midwestern boys. Midwestern boys, come on. All right, so it was not the first white act on the label, but they were heavily pushed by executives become a white Joe to see.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

When here's the other thing they did with that first ones, which they didn't talk about, but they had them dress in styles that were like part of black culture and had hairstyle, yeah, well, not really hairstyles, but like they tried to have them have like this black culture persona, but they're white. Right. Very clearly. And that is what so problem because that is cultural appropriation 101. Like, yeah, that is cultural appropriation 101. That's like putting the it's putting on somebody else's cultural things as a costume. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

That's not who you are. And I think it was Jeff from 98 Degrees said that it really started not the cultural appropriation per se, but having to put on this image that didn't feel like him. But that is really weighing. He didn't say that, but he's what it is. That is what it is. But he was just saying that it it really was hard. It should hurt his mental health. Yeah, because that's not right. He was just like, This why can't I? And he said it hurt his self-esteem because he kind of was thinking, like, why can't I just be me? Right. Well, right.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

But also, I wanted to say this. One of the first things I wrote down was all the all these males have aged pretty well. Very good looking. Especially boys to men.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Okay. Really good looking. Seanier. I know. I always had the biggest crush on Wanye, but he means he looks he looked really good. But Sean looked real good.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

I was like, Okay, how do they look the same? Nick Lachey looks the same. He's got a few wrinkles on his forehead. We do too. What I loved about Nick was that he looks exactly the same.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

He doesn't look like he's had Botox or anything.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Now, the other dude looks a little different because he's very tan.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

He's very tan. I think he must do bodybuilding. He must, because he had you could see like the veins in his forehead and stuff, and that's fine, but I think he must.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

And I was like, I wanted to look it up and I ran out of time because he has that that self-tan that bodybuilders do for competitions. Yeah. And he's he's but he's very, very in shape. Clearly. Speaking of that, we'll get to O Town, but why did they keep showing Ashley working out? I don't know. That was weird. So weird. Yeah.

unknown 26:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

That was I was like, what I'm like, I get it. Like he works in fitness now, but like Yeah, maybe that's why.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Maybe that's what he wanted them to do to get more business. I'm sure he's getting plenty of business. I don't know. That was weird. Uh the the what did you think of the Joey Lance gay story?

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Oh, see, that's what I was telling you. Yeah. But I was like, how I was like, well, as soon as they started talking, I was like, oh, he's gonna walk in on him with a guy. I know it. I know it. Yeah. And it was innocent. They weren't, I mean, he was just, they were just sitting there with like right. But I was like, but then how I just again, it made me so sad for Lance that he had to hide it, or he felt like he had to hide himself. But then I'm glad he had a trusted person. And I'm glad that Joey's reaction was what it was, yeah, and not something else. And you know what? I had a similar, not really similar, but when I went to college, a friend of mine from high school also went, well, we were we were friends, but we weren't like super close friends. We went to the same college and we were living in the dorm and we had not signed up to have be roommates together. And when we got there, we're like, oh, we should see if we can sometimes you can change rooms. We're like, oh, we should do that. She was like, Well, I need to tell you, like, if you want to do that, you know, I'm gay. And I was like, Okay, that's fine. And she's like, That is that okay with you? I'm like, of course, like, why would it not be okay with me?

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Like, like, you mean you're not gonna bring strange men into our room? I was like, that sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

I mean, I mean, I don't I have no problems with that. Actually, her girlfriend at the time, they're they're married, they're still married today. Yeah, I know they're still together. They have the cutest little love story. I love it so much. But anyway, and I wr and I remember that thinking, like that that made me sad. So sad for her, thinking how scary that must be to want to tell somebody and then be like, oh god, what are they like, what are they gonna do? And I'm sure that's how he felt.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

And to be like on on the public stuff, the public page. And later, I don't know if this is the fourth one or not. If you heard it, it must have been before that. Lance does say that he made it through all of that being the persona that was the shy one because then he was just shy, but he was like, But I'm not shy. Right. And so it was totally against like who I actually am, but I was afraid to like talk too much or do whatever, and then kind of be found out. So I was okay just kind of shrinking back into that role to be safe, you know. So we're really sad. And he he said the thing, oh yeah, this is on that one where his parents got have been kicked out of several churches. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Which is also disgusting, and also why, yeah, you know, uh, right. It's not fun. I know. I have my youngest husband, so we used to go to church and then I left the church, and that's a whole long story, and that would be like a whole episode series. Maybe we'll maybe we'll do that. Nope, don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

No, we're not going to that and my cult story. I don't know. Oh, I know to make for good listening. People really want to know your cult story.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

We get asked about it all the time. Yeah. And I'm like, that is not my story to tell, that is hers. So, anyways, we would be bringing all kinds of people down if we sat here and just said, here's our religious trauma. Boom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

I mean, people listen to true crime. So they couldn't listen to our religious trauma. Well, we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

One day if we're feeling really in our anyway, anyways, I my youngest was like, I might want to go to church with some friends. I said, You need to tell me what church this is so I can look it up. I mean, I don't like I was like, you need to understand, and he's 13, so I'm like, you need to understand, like, there's a there's a bigger story here that you need to know. And I said, but I need to know where where this church stands. So send tell me what church it is. As soon as soon as I looked at what they believe in, I said, Absolutely not. This is an anti-LGBTQIA church, but it is said in guarded language that you don't know how to look for. Right. And I said, I know exactly what it's what they mean by this, this, this, and this. No. And he was like, What? He's like, but I didn't know. I said, that's why it's not that simple thing. Now listen, y'all out there are entitled to believe what you want to believe. You do, you do you, as long as it's not hurting other people.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Yeah. And also you can um have whatever religious conversations with your kids that you want. That's true. What they do is you absolutely can.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

But you know, I mean, you're on the flip side, if you're teaching your kids certain amounts of values, no matter what they are, whether they're religious or not, you don't want to put them in a space that goes against what you believe is right. Correct. So, and that's on either side of the coin, whether you're a church person or not church person or here, there, nowhere person. Anyways, okay. I feel bad for going back.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

I do too. I thought it was interesting when they talked about that Disney special, the one that InSync ended up doing. In my research, I found that it was because Brian was recovering from his heart. Yeah, that's what I found. But they didn't mention it. They were just like, oh, we gave it to InSync. And I was like, That's not exactly true. Because Brian was sick. Yeah, he was still getting over his face. It wasn't, and the way they framed it made it sound like they picked InSync over Bax, they being like the managers of both groups. And I'm like, I don't actually think that's what happened. Right? I think it's because Baxter Boys literally couldn't do it. Right. But either way, that was the thing that helped InSync grow up. Blow up, grow up, all the things. Well, did you catch that line about how they were all given age of consent books? Did you hear that? When they were on tour, they were given a document or a book or a brochure or something of the age of consent in every state.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

And I said gross. Y'all know it's different everywhere, and I didn't know that till a few years ago. And some states are fucking crazy. It's real crazy.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

But also, like if a state tells you 14 and you're 23. Well, I guess. That's still illegal. You're right, you're right. I don't know how that works, but I it was like a quick mention, and I was like, oh gross. Um what did you think about AJ's girlfriend making him meet his dad? That was not okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

I did not like that. And she just fucking drops him off on a porch and leaves. What if that man walked out with a gun or something? Exactly. And you don't know, like, also you cannot spring something like that on a person. Now, thankfully, it ended up being okay. It was.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

But like, girl, I'm sure he was young, so I'm sure she knows, I know. She probably thought she was doing the right thing, and like that was more of like a happy surprise. But that's yeah, that's a lot. And yeah, they seem like they've AJ and his dad have gone back, like they met them, but then they didn't talk again for a while. Then he went and saw him when he was a solo artist, and he sang a song about him that was kind of negative, that was negative, and his dad didn't say anything about it, so then they didn't talk again, but now they are fine in non-talking terms. Family's complicated, guys. It is.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

If you don't have any family complication, then you're very God bless you. You're in the minimal, minimal percentage of the world. That's all I had for the first episode. What else did you say on that one specifically? We've pretty much talked about it. I did say I forgot about some of these groups they talked about, like all for one. I'm like, I do not remember them. Yeah, well, they just they had that big um, I swear, was their big song. Right. Well, I mean, I remembered that song, but I don't remember them like as a group. Like I remember that song, but I was like, oh, it was them. I don't even yeah, like I don't know who I thought it was. I remembered as soon as they started talking about them. I was like, oh yeah, I remember those guys. All right. So we're in episode two, and this one,

Episode Two Trigger Warning Talk

SPEAKER_01 34:13

okay. This was rough. We're gonna take, look, I'm using this table, I'm leaning on it. Here she goes. I gotta take a second because our friend and listener Anthony told us to watch this series, and I really wish he would have told us, Anthony, you should have told us that this episode had what it had in it because it was very hard to digest. There was a lot, I'm gonna tell you all now, like trigger warning times a million. There is a lot of talk of sexual assault and child abuse and molestation and awful things. And they they the victim, some of them talk about it in detail, and it was really hard. And not everybody, I am very, I don't know, I am very, very sensitive to things with kids like that, and it gets me like physically nauseous. And I didn't my youngest and my husband were in there with me, we're watching, and it wasn't right away, but then it came on, and my husband had he's like, I got I can't watch this. And then I finally looked at my youngest. I was like, I don't think you need to hear this. Like, now I'm not saying victims should tell their stories how however they need to and want to. You are a hundred percent in your thing, in your right to do so, and you should for your healing, if that is something that you feel good about. But I can't, I just can't watch it. And I just sometimes hearing details of abuse is just that's why I don't like true crime. Yeah. I just can't. To me, it almost feels like um what is the right word? What did I say to you the other day?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Exploitative that of the victim.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Even if the victim is the one choosing to say it, I just feel like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Anyway, yeah, so just a trigger warning. I I I I agree. I will say, like, I did feel like my eyes were very much opened to some things by watching it that will help me um in my own, you know, interactions with with young people, particularly when it comes to the entertainment industry and stuff, and what I I advise parents and that sort of thing. So I do think um it was very, very troubling, but it is real, real and it's out there.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

I know. And and I'm not trying to say I just want to cover my eyes and like get a I'm not. It's just very difficult for me for lots of reasons to listen to that. And like, it's just really and that right there, Katie texts me all cap. She's like, Cooper is never joining a boy band. And I said, honestly, that there's a lot of reasons why I don't have him pursuing an agent or anything. He could, he's a talented kid, he's cute, he can sing, dance, act. And I've had a lot of people ask me about that in the performing world. I won't do it. I won't because there's too many people out there who prey on young entertainers. And I young people, period, right? Yes. And there's only so much we can do as parents to shield our kids from lots

Protecting Kids From Predators

SPEAKER_01 37:18

of things. I mean, some sometimes we do our best and shitty things still happen. But I'm like, I just can't put him in that in that position where his image is all over the place. I just I'm not doing it. When he is of age, when he turns 18 and he wants to pursue things, he's an adult. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

But until then, and and yes, there's the abuse side, but also I think something this documentary reminded us of well is physical abuse aside, right? The misuse of people for financial gain. Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

They're just seen as a dollar sign. Correct. And the thing that killed me as a mom of boys, watching when they showed all the pictures of all these boy groups, and they were so young. I'm looking at my kid who is their age, and I was like, I cannot imagine the pressure put upon you to do all these things. And I feel for the parents because people are like, oh, those parents are crappy. No, they probably are like, oh my God, this is a shot for my kid to have like accomplish their dreams, and you want to support them. And you want to trust people. Of course. I think as human beings, we want to believe that people are good. Yes. And the thing is, predators are really good, or sneaky people are really good at making you think they are. Right. They're great liars.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

From an abuse perspective, and just the other side, it's a long game. It is. It's not like the first time. There were a few examples of that where like the mom met the whoever and then was like sticking to their kid like glue. And then as time went on, they're grooming. They distanced themselves because this was a trustworthy person. They'd proven themselves trustworthy X amount of times. And that's true in in real life, too, right? Of course. But um, in this case, the stakes are so high financially and power-wise, power that. So that's what that's what makes it, I guess, a little different than real life. But yeah, but it's a long game. So I think people who are like, oh, well, I would never let my kid well, the first time you meet someone, if you get an off-feeling, no, of course you wouldn't. Right. But six months, a year down the road, and your kid seems fine and everything, whatever, like it's so I thought all of that was just a really good reminder. This this might sound silly, but like my youngest really wants to go to overnight camp. And I just can't. I went to overnight camp and had a great experience. I didn't hated it. Nothing bad happened to me. It was just outside stuff. Oh, I loved and she, you know, and she wants to go for that reason. She's like, I don't want to go for like theater or anything. I want to go do outdoor stuff because I can do theater here, mom. And she's right. And every year she asks, and every year I'm just like, probably we'll be fine. But if it's not, she's stuck there without a trusted person. And so, and I and I tell her as much. Like, I'm like, I just it's I know you'll do great, but I worry about this, this, and this. Right. Um, and it's just one of those things where it's like, if I can avoid taking that risk, kind of like you're saying with like an agent or entertainment or whatever, then I'm gonna avoid it.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Well, and the thing is too, with abuse situations, we're gonna like, I mean, unfortunately, this episode was very dark and heavy, so that's just where our conversation's gonna land right now. It's most of the time it is people you've known for a while. Sure. Almost all of the time it's somebody you trust. It's not just some random stranger. Not that that doesn't happen, it does, but it's because they have put in that that process of making you think they're safe and they're really good at it. And they put themselves in and I I mean, yeah. We all have experienced something, either ourselves or other people we know, of coaches or teachers or babysitters that that are trusted people. Family members, family members, yeah, and it's just makes me I just have the hardest, like as much as I joke around and be like, oh, I don't like kids, I have a very soft spot for kids when they are hurt. Like, I will fight somebody to the death if you're trying to hurt a child. Like I will not, and that is just being a hu a good human, I think. Like, you know, and we should protect each other. And I don't know, it was just it was really it was really this was a rough one.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

And and just know that if you haven't watched it yet, I said the Brian guy from LFO is cute. LFO. Oh yeah, wait, he had like the bandana.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Yeah, but but poor guy tragic. Okay, so if y'all don't know this, everybody in LFO has passed away except one member. Except for Brian. They all died of some kind of cancer, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

So, of course, he's and he's mentioned, he's like, So you wonder like, is LFO cursed? Am I next? Right, like kind of thing. He said all three of them died under the age of 50. Right. Of some kind of cancer. Yeah. He's very good looking though.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

He is very good looking. And he was back then, yeah. Like he looks the same too. He does. But I'm wondering if he's doing the whole Brett Michaels thing because he's losing his hair. That's what he looked like. Yeah, yeah. He had like the Listen, I'm losing my hair.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

It was working, it was working for me. Um, oh, someone said, I think it was Brian, but it may have been somebody else mentioned that they they said, I was an adult. Oh no, it was Ashley. It was Ashley from um oh yeah, saying that you know, you could look at it and be like, oh, I was an adult, and I I whatever, like, you know, the grooming and all of that. He's like, but I was still a young person and it was still a power play.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Well, it doesn't matter. Okay, so you were a young adult, you were past the age of 18, somebody was still victimizing you. Correct. And I think that's what he was saying. Right. I mean, it doesn't matter. On how his manager was like, do not ever be in a room alone with Lou. Something I had a hard time with with a lot of these stories is a lot of the people they interviewed who were like staff members or whatever, and they were like, Well, we knew something was weird, but we just didn't.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

And I'm like, oh, like even that Allie lady who ended up showing as kind of like a hero at the end. She's mentioning several times she thought something was off. And at least the way it was set up, whatever happened to him happened after those times she mentioned. So I had the same thought, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Like, why are we not stepping in and doing something? I mean, you and I have both been in positions where we're like, this doesn't feel right for kids involved. We need to say something. Yes. Um, and you know, I don't know. I I just yeah I don't we need to protect people. I don't know, I don't know what to say about that. Yeah, especially vulnerable people. Yeah, I didn't like that. And I just the victimization of people who are struggling, like that poor that poor guy who shared like who who was um molested by the Joby guy.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy from Um I Wrote It Down, Forever in Your Mind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

And he and then he's like, Well, it had already happened to me before with when I was seven. He's like, Oh my god, this poor. And as he I was like crying because he's like sitting there reliving this trauma, and you can just tell, like it's still like it's still sitting. So, and then he was like playing that song and like singing, and I was like, I just it was. And then he married the Alley lady.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Right. Which I guess is fine. He said he was 21 or 22 and she was 28. But again, that felt weird because she knew him when he was a kid and managed him. Right. And seven years, six or seven years, if someone's 15 or 16 is a lot. So I thought that was kind of weird. I know. I mean, I guess they were both full-grown adults when they got married and they'd been through like this trauma or whatever together. So maybe there's that. But I was like, I didn't like that podcast. I just made me feel weird. That whole this whole that whole episode was really that was an odd one. I did say, like you just said about the staff, but I did it did seem like when given the chance, the guys from the different groups would try to talk to each other, particularly about Lou when they could.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

The thing that pissed me off so much was that fucking guy, Lou Pearlman, got away with so much for so long because he was so rich. And that's it. He had so much power because he had so much money, period. Dot. And he could just walk around being a skis. All these groups knew he was a skis, and they knew they could do nothing about it except be like, hey, watch out, don't be alone. All the people who worked for him warned all these boy bands, don't be alone with Lou. And it's like, what? Why? Like, how can we bring down people who are it just grosses me out? But I mean And eventually he was brought down, but at right at what cost? Now how many residents and how many people? But again, people are in power that shouldn't be in power all the time. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Exactly that. What else? Oh, I thought the bye-bye-bye story was interesting. How that song was so this was a good Johnny Wright moment. Right. So the song was written and ready, but then they were going to go to their new label, but they were still technically under Lou's or whatever. So they were gonna perform, I think it was the American Music Awards or something. And so Johnny was like, I knew that Lou's label would keep that song because it was like part of the collection, whatever the legal terms are. But if they perform it as them, then nobody else is ever gonna get to touch this song. Right, right. And that's what happened. And even there was like a woman journalist they kept talking to. Yeah, yeah. And she's Where do I know her from? She's I think she's been on a lot of things. Like so familiar to me. She was great. Yeah, she was. But she was saying that, you know, when she was younger and listening to No Strings Attached, it was like, oh, it's love and heartbreak. And now she listens to it with a lens of like, yeah, this is a breakup with Lou, with the past, with all the stuff. And I was like, that's really interesting. So because they sang it in such a public way, that Lou's company really had no choice but to be like, well, it's yours. Nobody else can sing this song. Right. Everybody wants to listen to this song. Bye bye bye. Bye-bye. Okay. That was the worst singing. And then the Forever in Your Mind group, I didn't know anything about them. Same. Never heard of them. So they were they were a little later. And that was really interesting because they brought them on, and then they were like in Dis on a Disney show, not as that, but just as um actors. Right. And then kind of became a group after that. And then that was the kid we already talked about, um, Ricky. I thought that Joey Fatone's bankruptcy story was was good. Yeah. It was short. I don't think he ever did file, but like he was getting to the point where he had to change himself. He had to sell his house. But I appreciated what he said. He said, you know, people are like so mean about it, but like, you know, we're singers, we're whatever. Like I don't have a business degree. And like you think what we've always said too. I know. People think that these stars, movie stars, TV stars, performers must be multimillionaires. And most of the time they're not. Like the Dawson's Creek stars. Like, that's the same story. You think, oh, they must be like James Vanderbeek and all that, but but they're not. And so I appreciated that Joey was like, I had to like move my family and with my parents for a year, and then I just had to keep working and getting out there and hustling. And thankfully things have like turned around. And I was like, I like that because it wasn't just like a oh, this is what happens to people. It was him being like, that's what happened to me, and it's okay now. But it's just a good like thing to know, and people don't need to be mean about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

I mean, like we said before when we talked about James Vanderbeek, you don't know the whole story of anyone's life, really. We know what we're seeing, like what we see and headlines, but that's just a snippet. And like financial stuff is tricky AF. It is. It's tricky.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Katie knows she'd be going all kinds of stuff with her business. Yeah, it's it's crazy. And and like just because something looks super successful, and maybe it is, InSync was super successful. Or you see Joey Fatona on a game show, like that still doesn't necessarily equate like the lifestyle or whatever. So I thought that was good. Like it was a short little bit, they didn't draw it out, but also I know he's a producer, so the fact that he even like talked about it and brought it in, I was like, well, he could have left that out. I did think it was interesting that female journalists said that the male suicide rate for young performers is like 20 times higher than the average suicide rate. Yeah, I missed that piece. And that people don't people don't necessarily think that with young male performers. Well that it's a very high suicide rate.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Well, mental health in males too is tricky too because we're they're traditional patriarchy, men are not encouraged from a very young age to talk about their feelings and everything. Not like women are like super encouraged, but you know what I'm saying? It's a lot harder for men to be vulnerable and open up because of what society tells you. And I think that is true whether you're in a boy band or not.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

And Jeff from 98 Degrees talked about that. Oh, yeah. And he almost jumped off a balcony, like sat there and thought about it, wasn't even under the influence of anything. Everything was just so overwhelming. Yeah. And I just thought that was important. I did not know that LFO wrote the songs Summer Girls and Girl on TV. I was like, that's so cool. I mean, they're not that. No, they're not. But like they sound like someone would just crank it out in like a pop music songwriting camp or something, but they but they like the girl on TV was songwriting camp. New idea. Write that down, Sarah. You need to do the songwriting camp. And that, you know, really was about Jennifer Love Hewitt because they really liked her, or one of the guys really liked her. And I just thought that was really cute. And she was on that video, I totally forgot. Yeah, I love that. I love how the uh TRL lady was like Jennifer Love Hewitt was a babe, is a babe. She still is. And that TRL lady, let's talk about her for a second. Okay. So she was a producer and a and a creator of TRL. She's one of the co-creators. And so she had her little computer up and she was scrolling through like old log lines from it and really basically like reading where the different things that were voted. That was such a cool show. Yeah. I loved that show. That was really fun. And then I just said three members of LFO died, which we already talked about. That's all you wrote down? No, just about that. Like about LFO. Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Yeah, I just mean like I said that, but we already talked about it. Okay. That poor guy. Okay, wait. Pausing. Going back to him. You know how in like the episodes they kept they'll show you like a preview for like the next episode. I did not like how they edit it to make it look like he was crying about something that happened with Lou Pearlman. Did you notice this? I guess I didn't notice that. Okay, because for the sec they like had a you know a preview for the second episode. Because the lot the end of the first episode they allude to what they're gonna be talking about. And they show they show him crying after Ashley says something like things weren't as they seemed with Lou. And but then I was like, well, he wasn't even involved in that. They use him crying about people dying.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Yeah, that was a weird edit. It was a weird edit. I did not like that teaser. Yeah, I didn't like that edit. I didn't like that. I don't like that either. Um AJ talked about his struggles in this one too, which we talked about when we talked about Backstreet Boys. And then uh the Backstreet Boys footage they had in this of them in the sphere. I know. So cool. Oh my gosh. That was so cool. And then I said plot twist, Ricky and Allie got married. That was the one I already talked to.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Uh, and then I just said I felt bad for Lance's parents because of not because of Lance, but because of the everyone else getting like kicked out of churches and having to basically, like, I'm sure, stand up for your kid, but you're doing it in small rural, like it's not like you're in a huge city, you can just kind of go somewhere

Faith Fallout And Finding Community

SPEAKER_00 52:55

else.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

No. And it's it's hard being the one and as somebody who was in this place, and you may have been at some point in your life too, as somebody who is in a religious building who really believes the faith that you're practicing, but thinks that the institution you're in is really broken, and you're the one of the only voices trying to call attention to what's going on, like to be like, this is not we're saying this, but we're not doing this. That's very hard. And then to have your child also be part of the piece where they're saying bad things about and you can't be here because you're loving your child and supporting your child. It's like I don't know. That's just it's sad. I I feel for his parents. I wonder if they're still in church.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

I don't know. He mentioned that they kept I mean, it's in that's an interesting question. We could probably look into that, but my parents, I always wondered how and why they could still be so devoted to church. Right. Like not so much when I was younger because I would just go with them. So like whatever, but after they had such a bad experience in church. And then we went to a church that that was fine, like whatever. It was, I mean, it was evangelical. I was growing up, and then they had a little bit of a falling out there, but then they would just keep finding a different church. And at some point in my mind, I'm like, but why?

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Like well, because I can tell you why. I because I did that before I just left completely. I kept thinking, okay, there's gonna be a church that that is XYZ. And then you realize you go somewhere and you think, okay, this might be it. And then it's like, actually, no. And then you go to the next one, and you're like, this isn't it either. And then I realized quickly, like, oh, well, this isn't because I don't really believe this, and fine, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

That and that's what happened to me. And that's what I'll just say if people ask me about like my belief system, specifically people I knew from childhood, but even just new friends now, if if it comes up, I'll just say, you can't believe you can't make yourself believe something you don't believe anymore. And then and that's it. It's as simple as that.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

And it's a sc and I will say, losing your faith and realizing what you have put so much time and love and care and truly belief in realizing this is not real. That is a really hard place to be. It is. And I can remember, like, because this was just a few years ago for me, so it's very, very fresh. I know yours was like a lot longer ago. I can remember talking to my husband being like, I don't believe this at all anymore. And I said, I haven't even said this out loud to anyone because I wrestled with it for a long time before I was like, this, because it's not like you wake up one day. No, it's like a very gradual unraveling. And it's just like when you like realize something, it's like usually it takes a while before you're like, oh, because then you see this thing and then you see that thing, and then it's like like patriarchy, for instance. Once you notice it, you can't unsee it, and then you see it more and more and more. And so I just was like, I don't, I don't believe this at all. And it's crazy because you base your whole life around this belief system, and when that crumbles, you're like, well, what's there now? Like what what is my foundation now? Because that's what I've been saying for the longest time. And then you have to kind of figure that out. But yeah, it's an interesting. Maybe we should do an episode. We should have a serious series and just do one episode.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

Just one, one serious. And I will say they don't they don't go to they being my parents, I don't know about Lance's parents, to organize church anymore, but that's more because of my mom's condition. And I will say the people that they know from this church, other churches, whatever, do take good care of my parents. You know, they bring them in dinner and they check on them. And so that's good. Yeah. But I I just remember kind of thinking, why would you keep going back? But you're right, it wasn't the I think that they still, I mean, totally speaking for them, because I don't know. And I could probably just ask my dad and he would tell me, but that they craved the that spiritual connection and that community, like you said, right, and that they felt like perhaps they could find that what they were looking for. And you keep trying and you keep hoping.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Well, I've said before, some of the best people and the worst people I've ever met have been in a church. I'm not kidding. Some of the absolute best people and some of the absolute worst people have been in a church. Now, church is made by men. Like, I mean, there's just no way figuratively and literally. Right, right. And there's no way around that, but honestly, so is religion. Like we created that. And I know no matter where you are and what you believe, that is true. Like people created religion. So, you know, yeah, we're broken.

SPEAKER_00 57:48

We are. We cry. Do you have anything else on the second episode? No, it was just so let's put it behind us. Let's put

Deep Cuts: Fans, Fame, Chaos

SPEAKER_00 57:56

it behind us. So, episodes three and four then were pretty short. They were only like 21 minutes each. The first one was called Deep Cuts, and the second one was called Deeper Cuts. And then there was a little disclaimer at the beginning of both of them, or explainer, that said there were just some things that didn't fit into our editing, but we wanted to include them. So this third episode, um, I said, I wonder why JC, Justin, and Chris aren't in it. I know, I want to know. Then it all kind of so the third one kind of went into stories about just the craziness of being that famous. Yeah. Crazy fans, weird like letters. Ashley said someone like carved his name in their arm and was like bleeding. And Justin's arm got pulled by a fan and like had to have like some kind of medical. And then the balls story that I already told. But how hearing them tell it was really funny. I know, I know. Um I I just I love Joey Fatone. I know she got a new crush. I think I do. She does. I didn't back then, but man, she got a new one.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

He's so funny, he's good looking. I don't know. I just and Sarah, Sarah got to meet him. She sent us a picture and she said he was really nice. That Sophie at Anne Juliet.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

I gotta find out if he's still in that and I gotta go see. He's not, I don't think. I think he's run into that. I'll keep an eye on him. I'll find him somewhere. See? That sounded crazy. That sounded crazy. I'm watching you watching you, Joey Fatel. Joey, whatever you're in next. Game show, Broadway. I'm there. I did like the moment where InSync was singing the national anthem at the Mets versus Yankees baseball game. And they said people started to boo them before they even started. But then they sang and they played some of the footage. I wish they would have played the whole thing, but I know, like, you know, there's only so much time. And we all know the national anthem. You don't have to play the whole thing. But they did sound freaking amazing. And they sang at Acapella, and they said by the end people were like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

Well, it reminded me of what happened to Baxter Boys when they were on that school tour. They were like, let us cook. And they did. And they're like, just hold on, let us sing.

SPEAKER_00 59:52

Yeah. I thought that was really cool. Oh, okay. So then we had like this kind of they didn't really call it racial profiling in the episode. I guess maybe they figured we could figure it out for ourselves. But that Eric guy from O Town and the Red BMW, right? How he got pulled over. He was speeding, but instead of just getting a ticket or whatever, the guy made him get out and said, I don't like dopers, like assuming he was a drug dealer and then he got arrested, but then he got bailed out. And it was funny though, because like the extent that they went to to not show that he got arrested, because I'm like, I know, you didn't really it's not you weren't drunk. No, you weren't I don't know. Like I just thought, I mean, I get it, they had to have squeaky clean and and and people would make whatever out of the headlines, I guess. But he was like, Oh, Lou was so pissed at me and ever all the guys were mad at me. And I'm like, you were racially profile. Like you weren't even doing anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

You were speeding, which most people would get a ticket. How about call attention to the fact that of why you got pulled over in the first place? Or well, he was speeding, so that's why he got pulled over. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

But how he was treated. He shouldn't have been arrested. Right. Even for reckless driving, they can. I mean, if it's if you're drunk or something, sure. But like they can still issue issue you reckless driving with a court date later. Like they don't have to arrest you, depending what level of it it is. But it sounds like he just like passed someone too fast. Yeah. He wasn't like in a school zone or drinking and driving or anything like that. I don't know. Now and they didn't like say that in the episode. Maybe they figured, well, these intelligent people watching this will put two and two together. But it didn't feel like he realized that. Right. When he was like, maybe that's how they edited it. True. Maybe he said more about it. Maybe he said, Oh, is because I was blah, blah, blah, and it just wasn't there. Yeah. All right. So the fourth episode, I'll just quickly tell you what I have in my notes. Um okay, so this was this was cute, but it kind of goes back to what we were saying at the top about boys to men and then all these white boy groups. Jeff from 98 Degrees. The bodybuilder guy look at the bodybuilder guy. He said he was, I don't know, young teens in Ohio and hard to say goodbye to yesterday. Is that what it's called? Hard to say goodbye to yesterday. The boys to men song. Yeah. The boys to men song was on the radio. And he said it came on and he just like put his ear next to it and just like listened to it and said he started calling the radio station. I like her. How do I know this? I don't know. I have it in part four. So maybe you did watch it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

No, there was only I showed you it was on Hulu, girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

Unless it was all in just part three.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

I wonder if there's like different cuts on HBO and then they put on Hulu.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

Maybe. Maybe. Was it showing that part four is coming, or did it just not show it? It didn't show it. Maybe they put them together. Was it like it was only like 20 minutes? That's so weird. That's really weird. Because I like segmented it by what I watched. We're going to be able to do that. Well, anyway. Okay. So that was cute. And he said he kept calling the radio station to get them to play it again.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

Remember doing that? Yes. Oh my god. I won so many things on the radio. That's awesome. I won 311 tickets one time, and then I didn't pick them up from the radio station in time. Because I didn't have a car. I was like 15. And my mom was like, I don't have time to drive you down there. And then I didn't get them in time. Oh, I know. I won all kinds of stuff. I won tickets to something else. I was I would call all the time and request stuff. Remember that? That was some good days. That was good days.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

Now like DJs aren't really live. I don't know. They just pre-record most things. There are like morning shows where I think they're live.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

Shout out to Mindy at a what's the radio station here? She always does the Gateway to Space Race. She's so nice. She's on like the Light Rock station. Okay. 99.3, I think it is. Anyway, she's amazing and she's she is so fun to listen to. She's on in the morning, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:39

But anyway, there's not a lot. Right. But there's it's it's a much smaller amount of content like that now. And your husband used to be on the radio. Yeah. And he'll know, like, we'll be listening to something, he'll be like, that's prerecorded. Yeah, yeah. You can tell. That's pre-recorded. You know, like, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, he he did radio for years. And he pre-recorded stuff. Like he would go in and record stuff for a week, whatever it was he was recording, you know, and then be gone. But anyway, okay, so there's that. Let's see what else you know that we didn't know that you knew. I just unless I don't know. I don't know. That's where Johnny Wright told the party story about have not letting Kevin go to the party.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Okay, so then maybe I didn't see episode three.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

But did you hear Joey tell his ball sack story? I thought I did, but maybe I'm just remembering you tell it. Maybe because it was him and like the tour manager guy talking about it and they were laughing. And the tour manager didn't see three.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

So here's the thing. That's so weird because okay, this is why brains are so crazy. Because as you're talking, and I think I already knew that O Town story for some reason or another. You oh about the BMW? Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't think I watched that, but this I definitely watched. But on Hulu it said it was just three episodes.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

That was the third episode on Hulu. Okay. And it must be a different cut then. Brains are crazy because you told the ball story last time, and I'm thinking, oh yeah, I watched him say it. And now I'm like, wait, I don't think I did. Yeah. Weird. Weird. Also, y'all excuse me, because I have had hardly any sleep the past year.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

No, no, it's okay. So then you did hear the story about how little Aaron walked into the party and his power. And jumped in the pool.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

Do you know what? I would do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

I know you would. I actually thought of it. Well, unless hold. Unless I'd spent a whole lot of time doing my makeup and hair. Fuck that. I ain't jumping. But when you were nine, you would have done that. Um, I was very body conscious, so probably not. Okay. Well, maybe not nine. By the time I was 10, I was like, I was like, so nine years old.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

Aaron Carter showed up at a birthday party at Lou's house for AJ and maybe Nick? I don't remember who what was happening. And with his mom, and he was in this like very cute suit that you know his mom dressed him up. Yes. And he walks straight in, is like, pool, and just jumps in. You know who also would have done that at nine, Cooper?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:55

Oh yeah. Hundred percent. Oh yeah. Not now because he's 13 and everything's weird, but. Everything's weird. Yeah. He at nine, watch out. And at four, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

Oh, yeah. Oh my God. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

Caden knows he would be nicely sitting on the side in his little suit.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:11

Quiet as could be. So cute. Um, I did say I already said this, but Johnny Wright felt bad about Aaron. Oh, oh, oh. The 98 Degrees Boys to Men story. So that was funny. Right. Jeff was like, we knew that Boys to Men got backstage at a Will Smith concert to meet um Michael Bivens. Yes. So we decided we were gonna do the same thing and meet Boys to Men. But then like they didn't meet them, but they ended up singing for a producer or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:40

And then the producer was like, okay, y'all come to this event. And then they drove like all night. 20 hours or something. 20 hours they get there, and they're like, Oh, we didn't really think y'all would come. We have no spot for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

I was like, and they happened to see Backstreet Boys there.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

I was like, that is so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:55

It was like the Washington State Fair.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

Yeah, and I'm like, they went all that way. Yeah. And then it's like, just kidding, we didn't think you'd really come.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

Yeah. What? It's interesting that 98 degrees, though they looked and sounded a lot like the O Towns, the Backstreet Boys C and Sinks, were closer to a boys to men kind of thing for how they came together. Well, they were older.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

They were older.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

They were a little older.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

And how many of them were there?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

I always thought there were three. Okay, but where's the third guy? But I and isn't the third guy Nick Clache's brother?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:32

Yeah, I can't remember his first name.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

Didn't they have a big falling out? Or is that I'm thinking of Oasis.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

Oasis. Ooh, that's another one we should cover. I thought that would be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

Wait.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:43

Yes. Hold on, I'll look up. No, I know Oasis is correct. Oasis is correct. I just mean I'll look up who's in 98 degrees.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

We're doing a lot of um live research today.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

We are.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

We're like, we have no research, and we're like, Katie, look it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

Look it up, see? Nick Lachey, Drew. That was it. Drew Lachey, Jeff Timmins, and Justin Jeffrey. Oh, that guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

That guy. Who is this guy? What? He's that guy. He he used to have like uh lighter hair.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Oh. That guy. And we're like, there's three of them. I do think Drew Lachey and his brother Nick might have to be able to do that. Look up if they got beats. Look it up. Look it up, see if they got problems.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

I'm gonna find out. Sarah is screaming at us now. She's they hate each other. Sarah, our friend Sarah, we mention her a lot because y'all need to understand something. This is so funny. And we love it when y'all do this because she's not the only one, but she's the only one that does it consistently. And she will send us these long texts as she's listening to our episodes when she thinks of something. Yeah. And in real time. And it's hilarious because she knows so much more information than we do. And she's like, I want to be y'all's producer, although I can't be there when you record.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

So just keep going. It's funny, she said she said something about JC writing a concept album. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, I said that. You just haven't gotten there yet. Yeah, you're just not there. You're not there. Hold on, Sarah. No, Nick and Drew Lachey do not have public beef. Wait, is this AI? I don't know. It's Google. I mean, do you want me to click on the article? She goes, What do you want me to do? Yeah. No, I mean. Well, I think they're okay. We don't know. We don't know. Maybe he just unavailable. I mean, this was 2018 where they're together opening a bar. I don't know. But he wasn't and it's possible he just didn't want to be on it. True facts. You know, because they're rather hands. No, that guy was on the phone. Jeff was there. Just the other guy. The guy with the hair. I don't know. And the t-shirt. I already forgot the guy with the hair and the t-shirt too. We were like, who is this guy? Well, anyway, he wasn't on it. Whoever that guy is. Um, but yeah. So anyway, what else did I say about this one? Oh, I just said the reminder that Nick Carter has lost three siblings to addiction. It's heartbreaking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

It's really heartbreaking. I cannot imagine losing one sibling, but then three and losing someone to addiction. God, ugh, and it's just a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

It's a lot. And the way that they ended it then, so you would have seen this. I did. Uh, was kind of Joey Patone looking at all of like the different awards he has and all that stuff. I thought it was funny. He goes, I think it was Billboard. He's like, This is Billboard. Do you kids know what a billboard is? And then he kept going and I was like, that's really funny. But he was basically saying, and I think he's correct. He was like, I'm proud of like the span of my time and being in Boy Band, I would not be where I am today without it. Justin Timberlake would not be. He's like, sure, could we have all gone on to do like great stuff? Maybe. But these were the springboard things that made us who we are today. And in the case of Backstreet Boys and New Kids, they're still going. And Boys to Men, they're still going. So um, and 98 Degrees pointed out, they're like, we're still a being like we're still together. Well then we answered our own question remembering that. Oh. Right. He did say because Nicola Shea said I was in, actually, I still am in all the eight degrees.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:55

Although Kevin and Brian be having beef and Backstreet Boys. True.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:59

So like they probably just kind of that family beef's the worst. Yeah, that's a lot. But I'm glad we watched it and I'm glad we watched it at the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:08

Well, I was proud of us too watching it. I was like, we know that already. We at researched that already. We know. There were even a couple moments that we were like, that's not true. Right. Or then but then was it not true, or did we just look at it, look up the wrong information?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:23

Could be.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:24

Could be.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:24

It's hard to say.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:25

It's hard to tell you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:27

So many debatable tell us. But um yeah, so that was fun. So we are closing out closed way bands.

Next Up Xennial Girl Summer

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

We have some kind of fun content episodes coming up. I mean, they're all fun, but don't worry. We won't do our serious religious one for I'm not ready. We're not ready. But we have some fun content and we have Xennial Girls Summer coming up where we are going to be able to do that. I gotta get those posts together so y'all can watch movies, but we've got a couple weeks still before we even launch that. So we've got some other stuff in the meantime.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:53

Don't worry, just like we did if you if you're new around here and you weren't with us last summer, um Xennial Girl Summer, we pick a few books uh from I don't even remember now what our picks were. I wrote it down. Some Xennial books from the 80s or 90s, classics. We read them and talk about them. And then also we pick some movies from 80s and 90s that we're gonna watch and talk about and research. And so we'll post those ahead of time on did we say, yeah, on what day those are gonna air so you have time to read the book, and they're not very long books, guys. Well, except Katie's is mine's really long, guys. I'll tell you, hers is Anne of Green Gaggles, and everyone just cheered, except me on the inside. I'm not pumped about that book. I'm gonna do it. You're gonna do it because she's not pumped about some of the ones I picked. That's true, it's true. But that's the only one that's long, and that's we're saving that till the end. Uh-huh. The other few are short, and the movies. I was like, one of them is Harry and the Hendersons. And if you don't know what that is, uh, I can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:56

You have you have to re-watch with us for sure that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:59

And don't forget our live event July 3rd. July 3rd, you have to sign up because people have already signed up and we only have limited tickets. Yes, it is free.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

It is completely free. And let's say you're like, I want to go, but I hope they don't call on me for trivia. You don't have to play trivia.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:13

No, it's gonna be optional. We're gonna have real high tech here. We're gonna have a big bowl for you to put your name in. If you want to come up and do a few trivia questions, you don't get to pick whether you're against me or Katie. You don't. But guess what? Chances are the same either way that you will probably beat us. Probably. Yes. Yeah. And um, yep. So you have a chance to be on an episode. We're gonna record it live exactly like we are here.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

It's gonna be a fucking we're just moving it to a different location. Can't wait. I'm taking

Live Event Plans And Reviews

SPEAKER_00 1:13:43

it all. And one last thing I wanted to say, because we haven't asked for a while, is that if you have been listening to us for a little while and you have not left a review where you need that, please do. And not just um a review, but if you can include words that make sense for people looking for a podcast like ours, only only words that make sense. Let me try that again. Words that people would be looking for to find us. So for example, if you could only use words that make sense, please, that'd be great. Not like all those other reviews. Just kidding. All of the reviews we have so far are wonderful, and it doesn't matter where you do it, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever. But include like retro podcasts, 80s 90s podcasts, pop culture, things like that. I would do like it doesn't have to be. You could just be like, Kitty and Danny are great, and that's wonderful, and people might find that. But if they're looking for the type of content we have, it's helpful for reviews to say that. Cool. So something something like that helps a lot. And you can also follow us on YouTube. We're getting close to a hundred subscribers.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:44

Also, our TikTok followers has grown a lot too, out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:48

So listen, we're creating we're getting traction. Traction. Keep the wheels rolling, guys. I was like, ooh, we're almost to the triple ditching 2026 live event at Funky Dog Improv. It's gonna be 2027 Radio City music hall. Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

Why not? You know what's funny though? I was like, I feel like uh it's just gonna be a night with a bunch of our friends, and that's amazing. It's gonna be great. But you know what? It's almost like we have to have a special event to have time where we're all in the same place. But that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:20

It's fun. And if you aren't somewhere local anyway and you can't come anyway, it'll still be fun because we're recording it all and we're gonna share it all.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

Can we live stream this? No, we're not dealing with that. Never mind, just kidding. Honestly, it's probably not that hard, so we'll look into it. But honestly, it's probably just a button. It's just gonna be right, but then we have to deal with using funky dog's Wi-Fi and all that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

I mean, they have Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:41

She's like, What's wrong with me? That's not the problem. What I have have been trying to tell Katie is we need to keep this like as easy as possible. True. Katie's like, we could do a raffle. We could, and I'm like, no. Y'all know what I have is an old navy bag full of shit that we're gonna just say, put your hands. I absolutely love that. We need to put polar fleece in that old navy bag. Oh, actually, that's actually a good idea. Yeah, okay. And then, like, we don't need like, I guess one of us is gonna well, we're gonna have to have our setup. We can do that before people get there easily. And then we'll have to be working the door because I don't want to ask anybody else to do it. I want people to just come and have a good time. That's true. Now, if people want to help us clean up, word. We're there.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:16

We're there. Take out the trash.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

Thank you. Yeah, you can help us put chairs away and take out trash and buy lots of drinks from funky talk. Funky Tog. Funky Tog. Funky Tog. Funky dog. So make them some money for um hosting us, hosting us, which is really, really nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

And then throw some money at us. We're not taking our clothes off.

unknown 1:16:34

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:35

And we're not throwing pies at each other. Oh, that yet. Although it has been a request. Wouldn't that be funny if we did that as our finale? I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. You gotta give me that's gotta be an OnlyFans situation. I need money for that. That's that's probably worth a lot of money.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:51

So we shouldn't just let that go for a lot of money is debatable, but 20 bucks. I don't know. All right, guys. Well,

Final Thanks And Sign Off

SPEAKER_00 1:16:59

definitely um come to our event if you can. Leave us a review, please, wherever you listen. And we will see you next time here on Generation in Between. Bye bye.