Center Stage: A Xennial Rewatch

Where were you the first time you heard Jamiroquai's "Canned Heat?"

Have you ever wished you could run off to ballet school and prove the cynics wrong?

If you associate Mandy Moore with romantic motorcycle rides through Manhattan, you might be a Xennial fan of Center Stage, and so are we.

Join us as we delve into the history of this 2000 dance movie that launched the careers of Amanda Schull, Sascha Radetsky and freakin' Zoe Saldana. 

This episode was made possible by the following sources:

Pointe Magazine: The Making of Center Stage

IMDB: Center Stage

Susan Stroman: Center Stage

People: Center Stage Behind the Scenes Facts


Episode Topics and Mentions:

Save the Last Dance
The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air
Labyrinth
American Pie
One Tree Hill
Pretty Little Liars
Suits
J. Edgar
12 Monkeys
Sex and the City
Queer Eye
Gossip Girl
10 Things I Hate About You
Drive Me Crazy
Clarissa Explains It All
Star Trek: Discovery
Amanda Schull
Ethan Stiefel
Sascha Radetsky
Zoe Saldaña
Susan May Pratt
Peter Gallagher
Jenny Garth
Clint Eastwood
Brad Pitt
Mikhail Baryshnikov
Melissa Joan Hart
Kurt Russell
Goldie Hawn
American Ballet Theatre
School of American Ballet
San Francisco Ballet
Royal New Zealand Ballet
Milwaukee Ballet
Bolshoi Ballet
Kirov Academy of Ballet
American Choreography Awards
Mandy Moore
Dutch National Ballet
Flesh and Bone
Stella Abrera
Peter Gallagher
The O.C.
American Beauty
Sex, Lies, and Videotape
While You Were Sleeping
Law & Order: Special Victims Unit
Grace and Frankie
Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist
Seven Days in Memphis
Zoë Saldaña
Crossroads
Drumline
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl
Star Trek
J. J. Abrams
Avatar
Guardians of the Galaxy
Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Endgame
Bradley Cooper
Marco Perego
Emilia Pérez
Blake Lively
Ryan Reynolds
Kevin Spacey
Britney Spears
Jamiroquai
Robin
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Michael Jackson
Paul Rudd
Iron Man
Thor
Gamora
Movies, TV Shows & Media Mentioned
Center Stage
Center Stage: Turn It Up
Center Stage: On Pointe
Diana
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Guys and Dolls
Long Day's Journey Into Night

Leave us a glowing review wherever you listen to podcasts, and connect with Generation In-Between: A Xennial Podcast at all the places below:

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Email us at generationinbetweenpodcast@gmail.com

Request an episode topic here

Transcript

Buns, Glitter, And Nostalgia

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I just said ballerinos. I think I like that.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Definitely not that. Well, it might be. I think that's a fun word. It should be. Hmm. I wanna be with you no matter what you do. There's something. I don't know. But if you know the lyrics to the rest of that, oh, you might be a Xennial who is a fan of the 2000 movie Center Stage. Okay. I was trying to remember what year it was. It's 2000. Okay. 2000. We um welcome, first of all, to Generation Between. I'm Katie. Hi, I'm Danny. And normally we do talk everything 80s and 90s, but uh we're I guess we're taking it slightly into the turn of the century with 2000. But that's okay because these are all most of the people in the cast that we're gonna talk about are zenials, like us.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

And we're xennials, so that means it's still in between.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

In there. Yeah, it's in between.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

I mean, you were a senior, right? I was a senior, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah, I was in college, but that's still uh a coming of age time. It is a coming of age time, and like the characters in this film were supposed to be about our age. So that is what we are talking about today. If you're watching on the YouTube, you may be okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

If you're not watching, we're gonna talk about let's talk about it. Katie was like, should we wear ballet buns? And I was like, bitch, I'll try because here's something that thick haired that long thick-haired people don't understand with thin-haired people. Ballet buns don't really work. Now, if you're watching me, you're like, but Danny, you have this very big bun. That's because my fake hair is in.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

It's definitely fake. It actually makes mine look really small. And I'm sad.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

I know. Listen, you can listen, you can do one of two things when you got thin hair. You can be sad and pissed about it, or you just accept your fate and you deal with it. So, guess what? I do buy fake hair pieces, and that's it. Looks great.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

I love it. You look like you're ready for showcase right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

I know. And so then I was like, well, let me do some. I had some time. I had like an extra 15 minutes. So I was like, let me put on a full face of makeup. And y'all can't even see, but I even put on glitter. Sarah's glitter. Sarah, it's the glitter you gave us for Gaga. Hold on. I you can't see it from far away. Oh boy. Are you serious right now? I spent a lot of time on it. It does look really good. You can't see it.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Oh, wait, there. Yeah, you can see it. Oh god. Oh god. I'm pretty sure they could see your tonsils too.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

But I don't have tonsils.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Oh, then no. Well, no.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

The holes where my tonsils were.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Exactly. So it looks great. We'll get some pictures too. We have a we have like a social idea as well, but we just decided we'll get fully in the spirit today. I know. And really, really feel.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

And Katie has on some fun. I don't we don't really know if they're ballet, but they're fun. And they're bows.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

These are fancy. Yeah. And I almost put a bow in my bun, but then between the pink scrunchie and the bow is too much. And she has thick hair, so her bun's probably pretty heavy. It is. I brought my hairbrush to take it down. Because I'm here teaching the rest of the day. Yeah. And I'll have a horrible headache by the end. But maybe I should leave it because I should put myself in the shoes of dancers. And I should be like, wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

This is what they go through. But you know what's funny? Uh, I was so thinking of this movie being in the 2000s, I was I was getting ready this morning. And usually if I do a full beat of makeup, the fake lashes come on. And I was like, well, I'm not doing that today. Number one, because it's like 9 30 in the morning. And number two, I have to wear fake lashes all weekend when I'm in shows, and the glue irritates my eyelids. But then I was like, but nobody used to wear fake lashes that much. Because I remember watching the this, these are the dumb stupid things I notice in movies. Nobody wore the fake lashes back in the day. Now everybody wears them. Yes. Like, I mean, people wore them, but like I was like, none of those ballet dancers had on fake lashes. No, but now, yes. Even when I put on earrings, I was like, I'm pretty sure there are none of them are wearing earrings. Right. Yeah, you're not supposed to wear earrings when you dance. Well, that's okay. Y'all want to know? Can we tell the story about how you broke the rules to wear earrings when you dance? Yeah, it's fine. If Cindy's listening, I'm sorry, Cindy. So well, Cindy won't care. We, when Katie and I met, we were in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat. And um, for the scene, if you know the show, it was Go Go Joseph, and it's like a fun disco-themed number, which makes no sense, but it's so much fun. So Katie was like, My outfit is missing something. I need to put my hoops on. And so we're going through runs. Was it tech week? I don't remember. I think it was like before tech week. Okay, yeah. And so we're sitting in the in the theater for notes after the run. And the director's like, so um, costume, let's talk about that. Do not wear any jewelry. Also, he wasn't just talking to you because I would forget to take my wedding ring off.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yeah, he was that day He was talking to everyone that day.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

But then she got well anyway, so he was like, Y'all cannot wear jewelry unless it's given to you. And me and Katie were like, boom. I was like, because I used to wear these. Now I don't wear a wedding ring, but I used to wear like the silicone multicolor. So it's like bright green. Yeah. It kind of stood out. It stood out. And I mean, her hoops are big, those stood out. So we were both kind of like And he's like, please don't wear anything. Well then Katie the next day's like, I'm wearing them anyway. Another note. So then she had, I think you did one or two runs without it, but then by the time we opened, she's like, We ain't getting notes no more.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

She wore those fucking earrings.

unknown 5:22

Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Look, it finished my disco aesthetic. Okay. Okay, but finished it up.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

The reason why you're not supposed to wear earrings when you're dancing is it's dangerous. I mean you especially those big old hoops, you get somebody pull that wrong and rip right out. Yeah. That happened to my mom, not dancing, but one of her earrings. Yeah. So it's a it's a fine hazard issue.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

I'll follow the the rules next time.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Katie was like, eh, it's fine. I was on the side. It's all right. But you do have a good picture with those earrings.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah. That well, that's the one. She said, see? I I will have to find that. I bet we need to go. I bet I can find it because it's probably just in my memories because that was one of my favorite pictures from the show. So it's probably like on my Facebook or something. Those were good pictures. Those were good pictures.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

All right, let's get into this. I'm sorry. Okay, send it.

Why Center Stage Matters To Us

SPEAKER_01 6:10

All right. So, first of all, when before you rewatched, you'd seen this movie before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to be a few years.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

And you watched it in college-ish. Yeah, I guess so. I was thinking I saw it in high school, but incorrect. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

And we'll get into this too, but it was replayed a lot on SoapNet and MTV. Oh, that's probably why. MTV. Yeah. And it has really good music. SoapNet.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Soap do you remember SoapNet? Yeah, but why'd they play it on there?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

I mean, literally everyone in this movie looks like they could be a soap opera performer.

unknown 6:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Don't SoapNet didn't just play soaps. Then why was it called that? I mean, it was mostly soap. But they played movies and stuff. I used to watch Soapnut.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

She's like, well, they played it because everybody looks. They do, though, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Especially Peter Gallagher. Oh, I know. You know, he's never been in a soap opera? I was shocked. I was like, shaken to my core. However, he was in the OC. So maybe that's what I was thinking about. But anyway, okay, let's get into

Plot Setup And Ballet School World

SPEAKER_01 7:13

it. So Center Stage is a 2000 dance movie where a group of teenagers from various backgrounds enroll at the American Ballet Academy in New York City to make it as ballet dancers. And each one deals with the problems and stress of training and getting ahead in the world of dance. Now the American Ballet Academy is not real. Oh, there's one with a similar name. Um, American Ballet. I don't know. I have it in here because a bunch of them actually were students there.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Um can we make a disclaimer really quick? Yeah. That is very important. Before anybody fucking comes for us, no, Katie and I are not professionally trained dancers. No. So all you we do have friends that that that are, and we might be listening to this yelling at us that we don't know. Yes. Okay. So just know that.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

As we so there's the American Ballet Theater. Okay, that must be what I'm doing. Which is different. And then there's uh the School of American Ballet. Okay. Both are in New York. So this is obviously based on those types of schools, and they used a lot of the real locations.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

That's what I was gonna say. Where'd they film it?

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah, on location at the American Ballet Theater.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

But I bet neither one of those places wanted to give their name to a movie that made their place look like it had fucked up shit happening.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Probably. Probably, right, probably, right. However, some of their main dancers are in the movie, but we'll talk about that. But not their name. And it's actually the movie was the winner of the American Choreography Award for Outstanding Achievement in a feature film. I mean, the dancing was so good. I I just have to say that when on the rewatch, I was like, yeah, no, these people are really dancing. Yeah. The extras and like when they're in that dance class, all those people, like the I don't know, the rugged dance class. The one, oh, the drop-in class she went to.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, if I I've said I thought to myself, if I showed up, if I dropped into a class like that, I would leave. I'd be like, oh shit. Like, right? Do you remember that episode of Fresh Prince of Bel Air where Aunt Viv went and she was like, what? And was like so overwhelmed they're mean to her. But then she came back the next week and fucking owned it. Do you remember that? Yeah. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

That's you. Well, we would learn we would learn it at home, is what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

It's harder on but she was a prof like, yeah. There's no, we that's not us.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

And it was so long. I was like, how long was this class? Right? Because the men's part was like two minutes. Right. And then the women's was like two minutes, and then they had like a minute together. I'm like, how long was this freaking dropping class?

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Well, honestly, if they're if they're professionals, they pick up choreography fast. That's true. It's not like us being like, we need four hours, please. Yeah. And a homework.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

So it was a 20-minute class, probably. Probably. It's probably an hour. Probably an hour. Yeah. But everyone danced amazing in this class. Okay, great. So just yay, they danced well. Got it. In our professional opinion. So it's got a huge legacy today, which we're going to talk about. Um, that, but it was considered a commercial failure. Right. It cost $29 million to make, and it only made $4.6 million in its opening weekend. By the end of running everywhere, it was $26.4 million. So they lost money. Uh critics were pretty unkind to it. It only had a 41% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes. It was kind of viewed as predictable and just not. It was. And the acting was not great.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

The dancing was, I mean, there were a few standouts. There were a few. Some of the acting was like, oh, you're a dancer verse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Certainly. Like the lead girl, bless her. Bless. Bless. And she's gone on to do great things. I mean, she's a great dancer. She is a great dancer. Uh, and Charlie, his acting blessed. God bless him. Man, he danced, though. He's so pretty. I can't wait to talk about the dance off. Oh my god. Oh my god, I love it. I love it. So the movie really found its true kind of legacy and made its money back after it left theaters and it was heavily syndicated on cable and then soapnutch and VHS DVD sales. And it's considered an essential rite of passage for real life dancers.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

For real life dancers. Or people like us who just imagine what it would be like.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

So it was direct the director's kind of interesting. It was directed by this guy, Sir Nicholas Robert Hintner. He is British, and he is actually a really renowned theater director over in Britain, was knighted by Queen Elizabeth. Like it has like that much of an influence in theater culture over there. And he was in charge of the Royal National Theater for years from 2003 to 2015. He's a two-time Tony Award winner. But this was really like his only film.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Is he a dancer?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

No.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Okay, because that's what I was wondering as we were watching. I couldn't wait to find out if whoever wrote this was a dancer because they must have had to research their ass off, if not. And I wanted to know how much was accurate.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

So it does seem like, and we'll get a little more into this, that depending who you talk to, there's people in the dance world who say it's not accurate. It was just overly stereotypical, like the different um tropes of the dancers and like how it's done and um the cutthroat nature. But then there's like a whole other side that are like, no, that was actually pretty close.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

So I want to know. I'm trying to think. I know several people who were professional dancers during that time. I'm gonna message them and I'll come back. Find out and see. I would like to know. I would like to know.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

I'm gonna message it. And it's okay if it's not realistic. I still love the movie, but I would be curious. I mean, you can still like it, whether it's realistic or not.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I mean, everything I like is unrealistic, so come on.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Glitter and fake flashes and hair. Why not? We love it all. We love it all. And like labyrinth of all the things. You're like, I'm like staring at like right now, and you're like, Labyrinth. Speaking of movies. Oh, I mean, I guess we are talking about a movie. Right. So that makes sense. Okay. Well, let's get into some of the actors then. Okay. We're talking a little more about the making of the movie. Um, but I wanted to say this before we talk about them, and you kind of touched on this. Rather than hiring well-known Hollywood stars and using body doubles, they intentionally prioritize ballet ability. I'm so glad. Yeah, I think you have to for this one.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

You have to. And like we all remember what was that movie with Julia Stiles? Oh. Yes. I was gonna say, I can't remember. What is the name of it? Oh my god, everybody's screaming at us. The the dance movie with Julia Styles, guys. Oh my god. And no, I can't think of it either. And she has that like whole solo moment and is like, oh yeah, no ma'am. No ma'am. I love her, but no ma'am. I know, but like that hip hop dance, she did girl. Bless. I mean, you did what you were told. You did. Got paid for it. So hey. So I'm glad they prioritized. Yeah. A movie about ballet should have ballerinas in it. Agree. Or ballerinos. Is that what?

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Ballerinos. I I don't know what that's like. Ballerinas and what are they called? Just ballet dancers? Can you look it up? Because I feel like we need to know this. Probably need to say I just said ballerinos. I think I like that. Definitely not that. Well, it might be. I think that's a fun word. It should be. Alright, what am I saying? Watermail, but ballet dancers. Ballet dancers called a danceur. How do you spell that? D-A-N-S-E-U-R.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Whatever. Ballerinos. They're ballerinos.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

So you had to have real ballerinos and ballerinos.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

I'm telling you, all the real dancers out there are like, Jesus, this is the worst podcast, and they're turning up.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

So far, not so good. But here we go. All right. So the lead actors Amanda Shoel, who played Jody, Ethan Steifel, who played Cooper, Sasha Redesky, who played Charlie, and oh my every week we have something.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

What is that? Where did that come from? It came from your knee.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

My bionic knee is falling apart. What is it? It's a hex key. A what? Like a like a hex key? I don't know what that is. Is that a tool?

unknown 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

I'll show you later. I'm thinking hex like a spell. Well, no, because it's got a hexagon head. Ah. What you like tighten things with? I am also not a mechanic.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Katie is apparently in her secret life.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Fell out of my tool belt that I'm wearing right now. Okay. And then Julie Kent, who played Kathleen. Yes. Kathleen. Um, they were all professional ballet dancers.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

What about Maureen? Was she? She was not. Because you didn't really see her do much dancing. Yeah. She just looked like a dancer.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

The the scenes that she did where they did have like the up close on her, she did learn how to do. Oh, okay. And she did look pretty convincing. But yes, they never had her like at length, like they did do with Joni. And even Eva, yeah, the character of Eva played by Zoe Seldania, what does is a dancer. She's a dancer. She I was gonna say she had to have been. Yeah, and they had extended footage of her. Yeah. But Maureen's was like shorter. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Um the no dance exception was Susan May Pratt, who was Maureen. She had no formal ballet training before she booked the role. She did intense crash courses and physical dance doubles for her technical close-ups. Okay. But just her. And then Zoe Saldania had years of dance training as a youth. Professional double was still utilized to execute Ava's most demanding technical routines. So parts of hers, which I noticed the showcase. I I read that before I watched it. And the parts of the showcase, and then when they're going across the floor in the dance, you can see that it's not her. If you look, it's someone her height. From the profile looks different. Yeah. Yeah, you can tell it's not her. But still, that's pretty good.

Amanda Schull And Casting Jody

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Okay, so let's talk about Jody Sawyer first. Okay. Amanda Scholl. She's actually from Honolulu. She was born in 1978. I don't really know why, but that is where she lived. She just lived there. I guess she lived there with a family. But I mean, like, I guess you can live anywhere for no reason. It just seems like you'd have a reason to live in Honolulu. I mean, who needs a reason? It's Honolulu. It's a mall. While she was still in high school, she trained at the Hawaii State Ballet under the tutelage of its founder, John Landowski, who's like a really famous ballet instructor. And then she received a full ride ballet scholarship to Indiana University in Bloomington. Look at that. Imagine living in Honolulu, and then you gotta go to Bloomington, Indiana. Guys, no. No. If it's a full ride, and they have a wonderful dance program there. So she was so good that she actually elicited a postgraduate invitation from the San Francisco Ballet Company to extend her studies for a year. Wow. So she wasn't in their company, she was studying there, which is kind of interesting because that's similar to what happens in. And then there's the line in the movie where her parents are like, Indiana has a wonderful dance present. And she's like, I don't want to go to Indiana. And I thought that was really funny. I don't know if they wrote it that way on purpose or whatever. So she was a student then at the San Francisco Ballet School and she was rehearsing her end-of-year showcase. And someone from the movie, like a producer, had called because they were in, you know, California getting the movie ready to drop in and just kind of like scout some students. So she actually overheard the choreographer talking about it to someone. And they said there was going to be a fancy Hollywood producer at rehearsal. So she like turned it up, like came looking great, like you probably would anyway, and was just like if you know somebody important is watching, you know. Yep. And just like turned it on. So it worked because between practicing dances, they asked her to read from the script for both Maureen and Jody. And she she'd never done movies or TV or anything. So she said in an interview later, it's kind of cringe worthy, but she said to them, Well, I actually like Jody better than Maureen. She was like, you know, looking back, that's not really something you say, but that's the role they gave her. They cast yours Jody.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

I mean, maybe they thought it was endearing. Yeah, maybe. Because she was like, That'd be something embarrassing I would do.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah. It's like actually this part, not for me. But to be honest, I feel like the movie was perfectly cast. I can't imagine Maureen as as Amanda Scholl or anyone else's Jody.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

So and I mean, bless her. For that being her first acting role, she did fine.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yeah, she did fine.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

She's not a great actress, but from the time she got cast she looks so much like Jenny Garth, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

She does. It's the mouth, it's the lip. It's something. It's the lip, the lip and the teeth. Yeah, it's crazy. And I actually actually Googled. Are they related? Are they related? Are they? Uh-uh. No. No, they're not. It just said that like a lot of people make comparisons about how they look similar. Uh so after Center Stage, she had a few other big screen projects. One called Mao's Last Dancer, which is a China set ballet-themed saga. Never heard of it? It's in English, but it was that's what that was. And then she was actually in Clint Eastwood's movie Jay Edgar in 2011.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

I don't remember that either.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

I kind of remember it. I don't think I ever saw it, but it got a bunch of awards and stuff. She personally didn't, but she was in it. Then she's been on TV a decent amount. She was on One Tree Hill, um, like an ongoing guest role. And then she was on Pretty Little Liars, and then she was also on the show Suits. So did she quit dancing? She continued to dance. Actually, no, it doesn't say that. So no, she must have quit dancing. I know, which is kind of crazy, right? But I mean I mean the the China set ballet themed saga, she danced in that movie. You know, I mean And that was nine years later.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Dancing is is hard to do for many, many, many years professionally. Yeah. I mean, it's just hard on the body. Yeah, it is, you know. I mean, think of like Susie, you know. I mean, she danced, I mean, she's still dancing, she's just now retiring. Well, so she says, but she's been teaching, and I think a lot of professional dancers transition to teaching because then you're still in the dance world, but it's easier on your body than performing. Agree. I mean, I just can't. Troy's Troy has a cousin who is a professional dancer. She's working on Virgin um cruise line right now. Nice. Man, but she's had so many injuries, but she's doing great, but she's still pretty young. I mean, yeah. So Right anyway, but very physically touched. It is, so I don't blame her for being like, well, let me do this acting thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

She in 2015 joined the sci-fi drama Twelve Monkeys. Never heard of it. Wasn't there a movie called that? Yes, and it's based on that. Okay, it's the same. Brad Pitt was on the uh it's the same concept. Okay, whatever that is. Yeah, I don't know. And then she met her husband, George Wilson, while Filming The Mao's Last Dancer. And then in 2020, uh, she gave birth to their first child and their only child, a son. Cute. So she's momming it and doing TV here and there, and but not dancing at least professionally. Okay. For her own self, hopefully. But well, okay. Yeah. So that's her.

Ethan Stiefel And Real Ballet Cred

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Okay. So I have to say this. I looked up the pronunciation of his last name. This is the guy who played Cooper. Oh yeah, yeah. Stiefel. Stiefel. Is that German? Ethan Stiefel. Yes, it's German for boot. Look at me. Look at you. Yeah, that's what his last name means. So he was born in 1973 in Tyrone, Pennsylvania, and his dad is a Lutheran minister who became a prison warden.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Wow, that's an interesting combination. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

It didn't say anything about his mom. So I don't know what's up with that. But anyway, and then yes, his last name means boot in German. Obviously, he's talking to the side of your mind. I know, I know. I was kind of looking at it. Let me hold it up. Let me hold it up. There, look, we got your table for my table. So he look at you, newscaster. I know, I'm so ready. Time to talk about Ethan and Stiefel. How is that? It says Stiefel. Stiefel. Yeah. So he is obviously a trained ballet dancer. Oh my god, he's so good. And they did such a good job featuring him in the film. Oh, hello legs. Oh my god, and those jumps? Holy moly.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

The jumps. The jumps are what kill me the most because I am the worst jumper. I love to jump. I love to. But when I tell you, in my brain, I go this high. In reality, I'm like, it's like when you watch the video back, you're like, I'm like, oh my God, I barely left the ground. And I've always been like that. That's why I never made the cheerleading team because I'd be like, beep. Oh, you did you try out for cheerleading? I did.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

I'm a everybody's like, you must have been a cheerleader.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Uh-huh. No, guys, I can't jump. Yeah, like they told me no, so I wasn't. No. Anyway, the jumps. Oh, I know the jumps are amazing. So good. So he trained in Madison, Wisconsin at the Monona Academy of Dance. He started at age eight. And then he became involved with classical dance because his sister was a dancer. And so they would go together to classes. And he was inspired. They also took gymnastics classes. And then he studied for two years at the Milwaukee Ballet School, which I guess is a thing. That's cool. Under Ted Kivitt and Paul Sutherland, and at the Central Pennsylvania Youth Ballet before moving to New York City to attend the School of American Ballet on a scholarship.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

All right.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

So basically, from like age eight on dance. Love that. I'll dance. So while he was there at the School of American Ballet, Stanley Williams, who's a big wig in the ballet world, I didn't know that till this research. Just so you know. Um and listeners, if you didn't know that, it's okay. He enrolled um Ethan in the company's men's special classes where he trained alongside people like Mikhail Berishnov Berishnikov. Berishnikov, I can't say it. Yeah. And um Rudolf Nereyev. I don't know who that is, but he's also very important. Oh, yep. You know who that is? I do, I do. And then he ended up studying with say the name again, Ber Berznikov. Berishnikov, like one-on-one.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

The only reason I know Berishnikov is because I remember back in the 90s. I love it. He was like a big deal. Huge. And he's amazing. And I just remember seeing him on like PBS and like, you know, like Katie and I are not professional dancers, but I did take dance classes. I love dancing. I am just not a professionally trained dancer. So I know a little bit, and I remember. And do you remember when he was on Sex in the City? Yes. Okay. And he is good looking. He is.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

He is good looking. He is good looking. Because he was was he Carrie's artist boyfriend? Yeah. I remember that. He didn't dance on the show. No, but he was I think he was retired by then. Yeah, by then he was retired. Yeah. So then Ethan was a principal dancer with the American Ballet Theater from 1997 to July 2012. Get it.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

That's a long time.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

That's a long time. So that covers the time he was in center stage. Wow. And then he was the artistic director of the Royal New Zealand Ballet. Wow. In 2011, 2014. And then he met his wife, Gillian Murphy, at the American Ballet Theater. She was a principal dancer. So I mean, this this bro is he's a real deal. Legit. Like, come direct our entire ballet program.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Males in the dance world. It's like musical theater. Yeah. Like, you know, there is not. I feel like if you're good at it, you get way more opportunities because it's not a set like for females, it's so many. You know, like it's harder to stand out. It is. Not that they don't work just as hard. They do. It's just and like there's hardly any male ballerina. Ballerinas.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

I can't.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

I know. I'm making all the people out there. It's so great. It's so great. There's not I mean, like, I remember when I took dance classes, there was like you have like your token boy or two. And I remember one of them, but he quit when he got to high school. See, that's the thing. Like they they quit like well, and because that's when you have to ramp it up. That's true. That's when you ramp it up. And I remember I quit, I quit like my sophomore junior, maybe it was my junior year, because my mom was like, You have to pick, do you want to do voice lessons or dance classes?

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Mm-hmm. Right. I mean, and they and to be fair, there, yeah, there aren't enough hours in the day or enough money in the family budget to to do all of it. So so I read an article in Point magazine while it was online, and they had interviewed a bunch of people from the film 25 years later. So it was recently. Oh, that's a dance magazine. Last year. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a dance magazine. So this was a quote that Ethan said about getting cast in center stage and how it all went down. So he said, I walked into the American Ballet Theater Studios at 890 Broadway one day, and I had one of those yellow slips in my mail cubby that just said, Lawrence Mark, Columbia Pictures, please call. Out of nowhere. Oh my god. And I called and Larry, what? Larry is calling on Larry's. And Larry, one of the film's producers, answered directly. He was super knowledgeable about dance and had seen me perform a couple times, and he was a fan. He said Columbia was working on a dance film. He thought I'd be a good fit for it. I was taken aback. There aren't that many dance movies made, period. Right. But of course I was interested. I mean, what an opportunity. And so he said yes and was in the film. He's actually not a bad actor. I didn't think so either. And he's good looking.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

And I said he yeah, I think when we were talking and we were talking about bad acting, we said his acting. I wasn't talking about him, I was talking about the other guy. You talk about Charlie. Charlie. Yeah. That's what I was talking about. He was not a good actor. Yeah. But he wasn't that bad. And he was very good looking. Very his name's Cooper, too. She's noticed. Uh-huh. Cooper Nielsen. I was like, oh no. All the rascals are named Cooper. All the rascals. Oh no. All of them. All the rascals. No, but he was good. He was he was not a bad actor. That's what's kind of amazing to me. Like to think of these two dancers, like him and her, never have acted. And then it's like, oh cool, you're gonna be in a movie.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

What? Like you just have a yellow slip in your cubby. You it's not even like you see the audition notice and you go, which would be cool enough.

unknown 29:29

Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

You don't even know anything about it. And they're seeking you out. He's like, this guy had seen me dance, and just like, I mean, so obviously you're out there like working hard, and you're not gonna be able to do that. Of course, of course. But still, like it's and even the San Francisco one they came in and watched and they saw, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

But you know what? That just goes to show you it's all about luck. It is luck. Yeah. I mean, like, you're working hard, but you never know when that random chance you're gonna meet somebody, somebody's gonna be in the audience wherever you are, at a school. I mean, that happened to the all those boy bands. Yeah, like you just never know. So the point of the matter is uh yes, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

On a much not this big scale, but like that kind of happened to me. I had been doing work for a company freelance in education, and the guy I was working for, and I he like really liked me, kept giving me more work, really, really nice guy, got along great. And so my contract ended, so we kind of separated ways. Six months later, out of nowhere, I get an email from him because there's a movie being made. Oh, yeah, and there's a woman in a movie that it's about who needs a little help because I had helped with like press releases and who needed some publicity help and also probably someone to be with her. And he's like, and I just thought of you because you're good at it and you're just so nice. And she's an older woman, and she need, you know, she needs someone to hold her hand a little in a good way, right? She, you know, he just wanted he's like, I personally would do it because she's like a friend of mine, but like he owned like a whole ass company at that time. So he's like, I I thought of you, and that and and I did it, and it was an awesome experience. And she, the woman I worked with is like, I call her my second mama, like, you know, she's awesome, knows my family, and I got to go on movie sets. And it was just one of those things where, like, just happened literally out of nowhere, I got this email, and then it was like the next year and a half of my life. See, never know. Paid my bills, got to travel, got to meet someone cool, voila.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

It was crazy. I don't think I've ever had well, I did get to that commercial. Exactly. I did. I mean, didn't change my life.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

I mean, I think I think you still have to well, that's funny you say that too, because that whole experience with me, I was like, okay, this must be it. Like, someone's gonna want my screenplay, someone's gonna kill me. Somebody's gonna yeah, okay, y'all, that was seven years ago.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

And it has not happened for. But look at all the other things you're doing. Yeah, but uh exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

And I remember in the moment when I the day I was gonna go to the movie set, I was having a lot of anxiety in my hotel room. I was getting ready to go meet her to go together. But at that moment I was alone and I knew I was gonna see like the director and some like legit stars, and I started to freak out and I was like, oh my god, like messing with my outlike, do I look okay? Do I whatever? And then I just like had a moment kind of wash over me where I was like, just be here. Yeah. Like, don't be like, oh my god, am I gonna impress people? Are they gonna call me? Are they gonna need me? No, no. Be on this is a really cool thing. Yeah, just be here. And if you leave the set at the end of the day and that's it, then let's let that be it. Yeah, you know, and and I was okay, and that's what I did.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

That's so good. But anyway, so I've been doing that. You know what? You know, I want I keep meaning to tell you this. I've been doing that on stage. I this is Troy's like, this is the this show I'm in right now, it's a busy show. He's like, you are not as stressed as you usually get. And I wasn't very stressed in the the straight play I did last spring either. And I said, you know what? I feel like ever since Christmas story, when I was so anxious and I had so much imposter syndrome, and I was so worried about that. Like, what if everybody thinks I'm terrible? What if it's awful? What if now I'm I have just like gotten past that and I'm like, so what if it's awful? Yeah, I'm having fun. Who cares if my voice cracks? Has it cracked on stage? Yes. Okay, but guess what? So does everybody else's at some point in time. Exactly. It's musical theater. We're not, well, it's live. Some people don't, but you know, most people have a little oopsies here and there because it's live. Sure. And who cares? Like, honestly, it's not that deep. And like, I used to get so worried for that exact thing. It's like, oh, am I gonna impress somebody? Am I gonna, or am I gonna let somebody down? Are they gonna be like, oh, she's a mess? It doesn't matter. Like, who cares? You're there for that moment. And I was thinking, I told my friend Victoria, I always think, and we've talked about this on the show. I remember what she said our last show that we were in together. And she said, I just want to remember what my feet feel like right now on the stage. And that's exactly that. Cause you're being right there in that moment. And so, like, and also enjoy it. And just enjoy it. Enjoy like, and sometimes I think it helps to be like, okay, like you were however old you were, your late 30s at that point, right? Mid 30s. Yeah. You got to do something super ass cool. Like, oh well, if it was just that one day, it's that one day. But it wasn't, it was like a year. And if that's all it is, awesome. That's what you have. Right. And I'm like, I'm standing there dressed as a spoon, waiting to run across the stage. And I'm like, I am 45 years old, having the best time. Like, you if I if my 16-year-old self, I think about that a lot. If I could talk to my 16-year-old self and just like if you could have looked back to your teenage self when you were in that hotel room, yeah, being like, look what we're fucking doing. Yeah. And then it makes it be such a different perspective. It totally does. Right. Yep. I mean, not to put like a mortality spin on it, but we're only here once. So we are.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

And and that's the thing. We work so hard for those moments. Like we're saying, like, like, like luck, but you know, obviously there is work that leads up to that, which is also what you said, but just repeating. But it it that's another thing we should be doing in those moments is enjoying the work. Yeah. Like even the stuff like um sometimes I get overwhelmed because my kids are growing up. And I'm like, oh my God, like I still got to do this thing, or did I do that thing right? And then sometimes it's just like, no, you've worked really hard at this. And also, like, that's the thing about kids, they're their own humans. So, like, just enjoy right now, you know, where they are right now, yeah, and what's going on with that when you can. Obviously, we have to think about and help them with their futures and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Can I tell you? Tell me that Cooper was so pissed at me this morning because they were doing field day and I was like, you have to put on sunscreen. You guys, this kid's a ginger. So, like, you're outside 30 minutes, he's sunburned. Okay. And also, Tori's had skin cancer. Yeah, my mother-in-law's had skin cancer. We are very serious about skin protection. Everybody should be. So I'm like, Cooper, you're gonna be outside for three plus hours in Florida and it's May. Like, you have to put on sunscreen. He's like, Oh my god, oh my god, I can't believe it. So the whole time I'm like spraying him down outside, and he's like, I can't believe I have to do this, can't believe I have to do this. Absolutely ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. Like, okay, just all the 13-year-old stuff as he's sleeping. I'm like, have fun today. And he's like, I will, I'm probably the only person who has on sunscreen.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Well, first of all, no one can tell that you have on sunscreen. I'm like, who the fuck is it? Once it like soaks in, it's not like you've got like zinc oxide on the side. I said, I didn't paint you purple.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Like, what are you even like? I love it. I love it. So God, and he was like, Well, you know, y'all never wore sunscreen. I'm like, right, and we've all had skin cancer problems. He's like, that's what I mean. And I'm like, you're proving my point. It was goddess.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

So yes, you don't enjoy all the moments, but yes, no, okay. No, you don't.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Katie's Katie's daughter graduates tomorrow, so we're waxing nostalgic today.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

We are. But we're just gonna gloss over it so we can make it through, so we can make it through. Okay, back to dance. Um, yes. So he also appeared, which we'll talk about a little later. That there are two sequels to Center Stage. I sent you those trailers. They look awful. They don't look great, uh, but he was in both of those as the character he was, so he was Oh, Cooper again. Cooper again, yeah. And then he was uh appeared in 2007 in the film Born to Be Wild. And then he was also in an episode of Queer Eye, and he was to meet a straight guy who considered him his idol. I have watched most of the seasons, and I don't it must have been earlier on. Yeah, it says it was 2007. Oh, I need to look it up. Yeah, we'll have to look it up. Love that show. And then he appeared as himself in season four, episode eight of Gossip Girl.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Oh my god, I loved that show. He is an avid motorcyclist. I was wondering. Yeah, and he grew up right, because he they have that motorcycle cycle scene. Yeah, so he grew up riding dirt bikes, he owns a Harley Davidson, and he once drove 3,500 miles across the northeastern U.S. with his now wife. I love that you found that. Yeah. I know it's funny. I just that's such a fun fact. That was really fun. And then um, I already said that he married her, he proposed to her at the American Ballet Theater Spring Gala. Oh in front of everybody. I know that's so cute. And they have a son who was born in 2015. Okay, so remember in Center Stage, there's like the older woman who is like really interested in Cooper from like a money perspective at the gala. Yeah, and then she ends up like funding his new company and all that. So that's kind of life imitating art because Ethan in real life has someone like that. Her name is Enka Pallets. She saw him dance with the American Ballet Theater at a fundraising dinner, and then when her husband passed, she began sponsoring him specifically. Like his life. Is that kind of creepy?

SPEAKER_02 38:52

I don't know. Is it? I mean, I mean he's an artist. Listen, we need we need somebody out there to um tell us admire what we're doing and give us all the money.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

I I I read it as it's just kind of a philanthropist wanting the artist to be able to continue making art.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Well, I guess if you're wealthy, this is something we don't know about. But if you're wealthy and you want to give money directly, I mean we saw it with like Backstreet Boys and stuff, they want to do to help people directly. That would be the best way to do it instead of giving it to like the company and then the yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

So so apparently she's also just like a huge advocate for the performing arts, which is great here in Florida because she actually lives in uh Palm Beach. Yeah, West Palm Beach. Okay, and she's on the board of directors there, and one of the things that she has done is support dancers' salaries with her money.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Yeah, because they do not make nothing.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Yeah. So it's not just him, but she specifically has funded a lot of the things that he's done.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Well, if you're still out there, lady, and you just happen to come across us, we need some money, we'll dance. We do Enka. Maybe I'll look Enka up. She'll be like, listen to five seconds of this podcast and be like, no, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Yeah. They don't know what there's we can add her on Instagram. We talked about you in our episode. She'll be like, please remove my name. Like, I am going to sue you.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

I have a lot of lawyers. Okay. This nonsense that y'all do not know about this.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Yeah, exactly. Okay. So I didn't find anything inappropriate on that, but I found that and I thought that was interesting. I was like, wow, that must be nice. I mean, it must be. Must

Maureen’s Actor And Career Shift

SPEAKER_01 40:21

be. All right. Let's talk about Susan May Pratt, who's Maureen. She's from East Lansing, Michigan. She's a younger of two daughters. I know. I know another one. She went to East Lansing High School, which I think is the high school where they filmed uh American Pie.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Ah, girl.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

And she was born to Sally and William Pratt. She was also right around the time that Center Stage came out, is really like the height of when all her stuff came out. Because she was in Ten Things I Hate About You. That's what it was. And then she was also in Driving Me Crazy. I never seen that. Oh, it's really good. Sabrina the Teenage Witch is in it. I've never seen it. And Brittany is in it. Why call her Clarissa? Clarissa. Yes, her. She was in it. Oh, oh, I okay, so I love her. But recently, I mean you'll love this. She she posts fun stuff and sometimes nostalgic stuff. She posted this like AI video that was like she she meant to post it nostalgically. It was like, what if all these stars came together and it was like like stars from like the Cosby show would come in and then here come the cheers people? And it's like they're all colliding in different worlds. That's all the comments were. And it was like on and on. And I I kind of felt bad for it because I know she just posted it lightheartedly, but people are like, Are you like paying attention because this is like not it?

SPEAKER_02 41:51

I hate you know how I feel about AI.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Somebody else tried to get into a conversation with me about it the other day, and I'm like, I just said to them, you're not gonna convince me otherwise. Yeah. So like just save your breath.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yeah. I think, and again, we don't have to get into this debate right now. I think for what's the word? For efficiency for like some business functions, it maybe makes sense. But to just use it to make a video of like people from the 80s and 90s all on the same set and the amount of energy and the yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

So anyway, it's making you us lazy creatively. It really is, yeah. I mean 100%. How many business flyers do you see posted on social media that are fucking AI? They look stupid. Stop doing it. I hate it. I'd rather see. Did you see my posts I did in my stories? It was like stick people in a drawing, and it's like I'd rather see this as an advertisement. I would. I would much rather see you handwrite something and be like, come to this. Yeah. Than some stupid it all I like, and you can spot it.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Like right. Right. Totally. Okay. So she was in those other two movies, and then she was actually in a French music video. Oh. For a pop star named Nelson. Wait, not the twins.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

I don't think so. You remember the Nelson twins?

SPEAKER_01 43:07

No, not them. Not their music video. Um, and then she was on Broadway in something called Love in a Thirsty Land.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Oh, fun.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Yeah, she was a lead in that. But after basically after 2001, 2002, she pulled back from Hollywood. She got her bachelor's degree in business, then a master's degree in occupational therapy. She married Canadian actor Kenneth Mitchell. He was in Star Trek Discovery, but he died from ALS in February 2024. And they have two kids together. So she's doing a lot of work in that field right now. Um, you know, raising the kids and working on ALS um advocacy. But I feel like I don't know, I felt like I've seen her in so many other same things, but I guess not. It was just that things I hate about you, little yeah, yeah, it was just that time frame she was in everything, and then and then She wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Yeah. So that's her.

Sascha Radetsky And The Dance-Off

SPEAKER_01 44:03

All right. Let's talk about Sasha Redesky, who is Charlie. Love it. Okay. So he was born in 1977. So he's a Zenil, Santa Cruz, California. He s began studying ballet in the San Francisco Bay Area. At 15, he was invited to train at Moscow's Bolshoi Academy. Is he Russian? His name sounds Russian. I don't know. I actually don't know. I'm not sure. It sounds like it could be. Yeah. And then he studied at the Kirov Academy in Washington, D.C. And then he was on a scholarship and summer programs of the School of American Ballet, the American Ballet Theater School of Classical Ballet with Berishnikov, and the San Francisco Ballet School. So even as like a teenager, he was. And I mean, his dancing was great. So good. The jumps. Always with the jumps. Always with the jumps. Unbelievable. Like that scene where him and um Cooper are Okay. I have that in my notes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

I said the pissing pissing match. That is dancing. That is big dancing fancier turns than the other. Yeah. Here for that.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

I loved it. And then at the and then Cooper finally does one he can't do. He goes, I'll work on it. So in real life, they're actually besties. Oh, cute. Yeah. And are they both straight? Uh yes. They're both married to women. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't so as far as I know. They're married to women. That doesn't matter. They're married to women. That's all I know. Just curious. But yeah, that that 25-year reunion thing I read, like they were at the same place for the interview and like talking about their friendship. Partly because of center stage, but also because they were in similar ballet theaters during the years. But they're actually really good friends. That's good. Yeah. So that was kind of fun. So he joined the American Ballet Theater as an apprentice in 1995, and then he became a member of the core. So, like the not the principal dancers or the soloists in 96. And then he was put in um center stage last minute. Yeah, he wasn't cast, he didn't try out for anything like that. They had someone else. They had a different dancer, a Spanish ballet dancer named Angel Corella, and the character was supposed to be named Carlos. Ah, uh-huh. Carlos! Carlos! And then they changed it to Charlie. Oh, which is kind of fun because he's Russian. Yeah. But Corella sprained ligaments in his foot.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

And so they brought Sasha in at the last minute and then changed the character to Charlie. See, luck. Luck. What an unfortunate luck. When the guy hurt his foot in the thing. I know. In the movie. In the movie. Uh Eric. Yeah. But then he still gets put in the bat. He was like, I'm in too. And I was like, I'm happy to do that.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

But I mean, like, how long is your healing gonna be? Like, why would they whatever? I thought that was weird. They just had to wrap that up.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

They did. So he also appeared in the Mandy Moore music video, I Wanna Be With You. Uh. And the way that that video is made, they are showing kind of some clips from the movie, but additionally, he dances in it. Yeah. Like in real time or whatever. Yeah, he's such a good dancer and good looking too. And then he became a soloist with the American Ballet Theater in 2003. 2008, he left the American Ballet Theater to join the Dutch National Ballet as a principal dancer. And then in 2010, he returned back to American theater as a soloist, retired in July 2014. And since he retired, he starred in some other things. Ross in the stars TV drama Flesh and Bone, which I've never seen. Have you ever seen that one? That's he was in a Hallmark Channel movie. You know, I haven't seen that. A Nutcracker Christmas. So I gotta find that. I gotta find that. And then he was in Center Stage on Point, which is one of the sequels, and he returned to the role of Charlie.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Well, now I want to watch this. Even though it looks dramatic.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

The sequels or the one with yeah, the one with him specifically, because he's only in one. I think that's the third one. Yeah.

unknown 47:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Which is the one about modern dance? Because that looks good. Modern dance is the second one. Okay. Third one is like um a dance reality show premise. Like Cooper is putting together. Hold on. Oh, that's right, that's right. He's putting together, I have it in my notes later when I talk about the sequels. Let me see. I'm gonna tell you right now because we keep bringing it up. Let me get to that page, everyone. Yes. Okay, so Center Stage Turn It Up was 2008, eight years after the original. Follows a Detroit Detroit Boyne dancer. Boy Detroit boy dancer with immense raw talent who dreams of joining the fictional American Ballet Academy after being rejected. She takes a job at a trendy hip-hop club. So that's probably the one you're thinking of. Catches the eye of a handsome ABA hockey player, turned ballet student. Hey, look out. And then in 2016, a center stage on point, Jonathan Reeves is tasked with infusing the traditional American ballet economy with the modern edge. Yeah, that was the one with the that's what it is. New wave of versatile dancers who launches a grueling competitive intensive camp.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

I was like reality show. That's what I was thinking of, though, because they were like pitted against each other. That was the one I watched, and I was like, oh, the dancing looks really cool in that one because she the girl's like, I'm auditioning as a modern dancer. And I was like, ooh, yeah. And so that's the one that Sasha is in.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Okay. That one.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Cool. And then he got a fellowship at the Center for Ballet and the Arts at NYU. He was actually named the director of the American Ballet Theater and the New York University's master's degree program in ballet pedagogy. Ooh. And he is a company teacher for American Ballet Theater. And then he is a ballet master there now. Ballerino Master. Ballerino Master. And then in 2018, he was selected the artistic director of the American Ballet Theater Studio Company. Okay. So he's busy. He's really busy. He's also a writer. Oh my god. Yeah, certainly. He's written for Dance Magazine, Point Magazine, Dance Spirit, Vogue.com, Newsweek, and Playbill. I know. Well. Look at this guy. Excuse me. And then he married also a fellow dancer named Stella Abrera. I mean, you almost have to marry somebody else who dances. You would have to. I would have to, but I feel like no one can understand otherwise. No. And then if you're at the same type rehearsals and the same schedules and stuff, yeah. Alright.

Peter Gallagher And Peak Soap Face

SPEAKER_01 50:14

So let's talk about Peter Gallagher. Okay. Who has never been on a soap opera as he has never been on a soap opera and I am shook. I was just staring at the ceiling in bed last night thinking about this. Were you really? I think it's because I really thought he was. And I it just really I don't know. She's like, my whole worldview has changed. It has. If Peter Gallagher can't be on a soap, I mean I guess he could be. Maybe you turned him down. Maybe he never auditioned. Look, that's a steady paycheck, but it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 50:43

Oh yeah. They gotta memorize stuff every day. Like big quickly. That wasn't like big, big words. I don't know. I would fail miserably. Yeah. Well, they do a good job. I'd be I'd live in like nobody's business. I'd be like, you fired. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Peter Gallagher. Okay. So he was born in New York City in 1955. His mother, Mary Ann, was a bacteriologist. Ooh. She's a scientist. And his father, Thomas Francis Gallagher Jr., was an advertising executive. Okay. And he's the youngest of three children, and he is Irish Catholic, raised in Armonk, New York. He graduated from Tufts University, where he was active in theater. He appeared in such shows as Stephen Sondheim's company, and he sang with an all-male a cappella group called the Belzebubs. I think it's Bielzebubs. Yeah. I well, did he when have we ever heard him sing? You never heard him sing. No, he's like, I personally have not. I was too busy envisioning him in soap operas.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

I've been wasting my time. Yeah, I was trying to think, is there anything he's been in where we've heard him sing?

SPEAKER_01 51:49

No. So now he's done like musicals. He, you know, in he was on Broadway in the 70s. Obviously, we wouldn't have seen him then. So somebody's heard him say. But yeah. And he was in Long Day's Journey and Tonight and Guys and Dolls. On Broadway. Yeah. And then in the 80s and 90s, he kind of became more recognizable in films. He was in sexualizing videotape while you were sleeping. Right. American Beauty.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

Who was he in that? I feel like he was the nature of the Oh, he was the realtor. She's who she was having an affair with. That's right. That's right. There we go. We need to re-watch that, but I kind of don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

We probably should, though. And now Kevin Spacey's so problematic in real life. Obviously, he's problematic in the movie, but like yikes. And then, of course, center stage. And then he was Sandy Cohen, the beloved father figure on the hit TV series The OC. And he's been in other TV shows like Law and Order, Special Victims Unit, Californication, Grace and Frankie, and Zoe's Extraordinary Playlist, which I never watched but heard was really, really good. Never heard of it. I looked really good. Uh, he is an accomplished singer. He's performed musical theater and concerts. He released the album Seven Days in Memphis, which showcased his love of classic soul and jazz-inspired music. All right, sir. So there you go. That's all I had with him. I guess I don't really put anything personal. He ain't got no drama. Maybe it's no drama.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Which again, I feel like he would. I am just so seems like he should be on a soap and have drama in his life. He should. Doesn't he just look like he should? I mean he does. He looks like he's kind of, you know.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Maybe it's just the characters he plays.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

He'd be sliding around.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

So convincing. He'd be sliding around. Sliding around. Oh, okay. Alright, so I saved obviously there's more characters in the ones I've talked about, but I stuck with the like the main ones.

Zoe Saldaña Origins And Breakout

SPEAKER_01 53:37

The main ones, yeah. I saved Zoe Saldania for the end. Because she knows her. Because I know her. If you didn't hear on our Dawson's Creek episode, I recently saw her in Central Park in New York City with her children and a golden doodle. I think it was a golden doodle. I'm very sorry if it's a different breed, but it looked like one to me. And I have a golden doodle. So and so does Sarah, who is with me. So Sarah, was it a golden doodle? Question mark. These dogs are so big. And it was big. Gross. It was big. And she had on her little sunglasses and her jeans and a sweater, and she was getting something from the coffee cart, and lots of people were petting her dog, and she was kind of apologizing for the dog. The dog was fine, but it was just excited. And she was like, Oh, I'm sorry, we're not from here, we're from California. And then they went on a little walk in Central Park.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

I'm not cut out to live in New York for two reasons. Number one, it's cold, and number two, there's famous people everywhere, and people just act like this normal. Yeah. I would be pissing my pants, acting like a moron every corner I turned. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Somehow I didn't. If I was with you, I would have been like, excuse me. Well, I think so. I had read a while back something from Blake Lively. They have three or four daughters now, um, her and Ryan Reynolds. And basically her complaining because she couldn't even like go for a walk with her kids, more complained about paparazzi, but also kind of this whole, and she eloquently put it, which I'm not going to eloquently paraphrase it probably, but basically saying, like, like when we're not working when we're out with our families. We're not, I know we're famous, but like we deserve like family time and privacy too. And that just kind of popped in my head when I saw her with her kids and her dog. And then mentioning that they're not from there, I was like, oh, they must be on vacation, or maybe she's filming something. So I just didn't bother her. She's a lot more calm than me.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

I didn't bother her.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

I would have found a way to like stand somewhere and be like, I probably should have at least done that. Yeah. Or like her walking away or something. But it was bad timing because we were literally waiting to cross the street ourselves and the light turned and she's walking the other way, and we're like, well, here we go. But yes, it wasn't meant to be. So she is actually the highest grossing actor in history. I did not know that. Really? Maybe I should have got her picture. Yeah, no kidding. Yes, because of so the highest grossing, that doesn't mean she's the highest paid. So you have to look at the franchises she's back in. Marvel. When you put the Marvel, uh, she was in Pirates of the Caribbean. She was in Star Trek. Yeah. So when you put all that together, so she's the highest grossing uh performer of all time. As of right now, 2026. She's an Academy Award and Golden Globe winner. And she was one of Time Magazine's one of the most influential people in the world in 2023. And her very first film break was center stage. Look at that. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_02 56:32

Her acting was really good. I know. I loved her acting. And she still looks the same. I know. That's what money buys you. I mean, she's had work done, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

I'm sure. I'm sure she has. And but yeah, she she kind of has that classic, yeah, youthful look. And just um, she's such such a unique look, too, which we'll talk about here in a second. But she was born in 78, so she's a zennial. She was born in New Jersey and raised in the New York City borough of Queens. Her parents are Herodio Saldania, who is Dominican, and Acelia Nazario, who is half Dominican, half Puerto Rican. So like 75% Dominican, 25% Puerto Rican. She has two sisters, Cicely and Marielle, who, and they were all raised to be bilingual in English and Spanish. Spanish was the only language spoken at home. So they can speak both. And then when she was nine, this is terrible, her father was killed in a car accident. So her and her two sisters were sent to live with their late father's family in the Dominican. So she went to live there when she was nine. Their mother actually stayed in New York to earn money to pay for their private schooling that they were doing in the Dominican. So eventually her mom remarried, Dago Berto Galan, who became the girl's stepfather. Apparently, they're like close with him. They consider him their dad at this point. And then during her sophomore year of high school, Zoe's sophomore year, the family returned to New York City because there was political unrest in the Dominican, and she f completed her education at Newton High School in Queens. Okay. So she's back in New York City. Wait, when did she dance? So she discovered her love of dance while she was living in the Dominican. Okay. That's actually where she trained. Okay. She was enrolled in the ECOS Academy, studying forms of dance, but she always said ballet was her passion. And so in 1995, she performed with the Faces Theater Group in Brooklyn. And during these years, she also performed with the New York Youth Theater. Her appearance in their production of Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat led a talent agency to recruit her. Her dance training and her acting experience helped her land her first film role playing ballet student Ava Rodriguez in Center Stage. When she did center stage, she almost changed her last name at the requ like the suggestion of her agents. So I found a quote on that. She said, When I did center stage, I remember being discouraged by my management at that time to use my name. And then she added, But their intention was never for me to stop being who I was. They did celebrate who I was, but she declined to change her name, which I'm glad. I'm glad to. Yeah. Because it's just so unique and fun. Well, you should have it. Well, you should never change who I mean Yeah, and I'm sure she's proud of me. And like, I mean, not to get too deep, but that's like was her dad's last name when passed away. You know what I mean? You're kind of abandoning that. Your heritage, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So she around the same time as Center Stage, she was in the Britney Spears movie Crossroads. Oh, right. She was in Drumline.

unknown 59:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

In 2002. Such a good one. And then she was Anna Maria and Pirates of the Caribbean, The Curse of the Black Pearl in 2003. And then there were two films in 2009 that really like raised her profile. One was Star Trek. And then actually, there's another one. The film's director, JJ Abrams, asked her to play the role because he had seen her in other things and just like liked her. He thought she was a good actress. And her mom was a Star Trek fan. And so her mom kept leaving her voicemails during the filming, giving her advice, like on the role. Oh, that's so funny. And that movie, the Star Trek movie from 2009, earned 385.7 million. Ooh, I am not a Trekie. So never saw that. Same year, she appears in Avatar. Yeah, Avatar. Where she portrayed the indigenous hunter Nitiri. That grows 2.7 billion worldwide.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

In it. Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

I mean like the they did the um they did well, so yeah, they did the green screen, but she did the acting and the voicing. Yeah, she did the voicing. Yeah. And I mean the character does look like her. Yeah. It has her features. They used her imagery for it, I guess you could say. And that was the first film to ever gross two billion worldwide. Crazy. Yeah. Then in 2014, she played Gamora in Guardians of the Galaxy. And she, you might already know this because you're a fan, but she did all of her like look with makeup, not with CGI. So which why is so good? It's so good. Yep. And it was the third highest-grossing film in the Marvel Sematic universe behind the Avengers and Iron Man 3. And then she returned as Gamora in the sequel, released in May 2017. And then she reprised the role in Avengers Infinity War and its sequel, Avengers Endgame. And then it said it was an altr alternate, sorry, alternate version of the character in the latter film in Endgame.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:24

I never saw that one. Oh, I've seen them all. Yeah. Yep. Love. We you need to do well, in all your free time. What's really fun, and I want to redo it now that there's more Marvel movies. There was one summer where Troy was gone a lot, and so me and Caden decided we were gonna go through the whole Marvel universe in order of their timeline, not in how the movies came out. Okay. It was it everything made so much more sense. Oh, okay. So much more sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

I probably like that actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

And so uh it was so much fun, but that was before Endgame and before all that. Okay. So I want to go back and do it again. My favorite heroes, though, are still Thor and all the Guardians because Guardians are awesome. I hate Iron Man. He's obnoxious, he's an asshole. And I don't like him. And I know he has a redeeming arc at the end. And if you've never watched the whole thing, I won't say, but I don't care. I don't like Tony Stark.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

There you go. Wow. That's the hill you're gonna die on. Um Marvel universe, yes. I do not like Iron Man. The Marvel Hill you're gonna die on. And Ant Man, love Paul Redd. Me too. So much, so much. Uh, and then she was in the 2023 Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3, and that was her last film, at least to date, in the Marvel Cinematic Universe as Gamora. She actually dated Bradley Cooper from December 2011 through January 2013.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:49

Bradley Cooper done got around Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:51

Oh yeah. Yeah, he did. Oh yeah. And then in after that breakup, March of 2013, she started dating Italian artist Marco Perego, and they married three months later in London. They're still married. In July 2015, she revealed that Perigo adopted her surname upon marriage. Hey, I love that. So her name is Zoe Saldagna Perego, and his is Marco Perego Saldania. I love that. Yeah, it's really fun. They have three sons. So this must have been. I saw two kids with her when I saw her. And she has stated her children are multilingual because her and her husband speak Spanish, Italian, and English around. Wow. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. Impressive. Um, she has a disease called Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which is autoimmune. Her mothers and sisters have it too. So to combat the effects of it, she and her husband adhere to a gluten and dairy-free diet. She's a supporter of Finca International, which is a microfinance organization, and it helps people who maybe can't get financing traditional routes, whether it's women, small businesses, things like that. And then she in 2017 founded B E S E, but it might just be Bessie. I don't know if you spell it or say it. It's a digital media platform designed to combat the lack of diversity in mainstream media. And it specifically shows, shines a light on positive stories in the Latino community. And then in 2020, she used her social media presence to participate in the vote writers ID Check Challenge to spread the word about ID requirements for the presidential election. So she's all of that and been like nominated for things here and there, critics choice, that sort of thing. But then in 2024, she was in uh Jacques Audouard's musical crime comedy film, Amelia Perez. Have you ever seen it? I haven't either, but look at how Amelia's spelled. Hey. I need to see it. She won an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress, a Golden Globe Award for Best Supporting Actress, a BAFTA Award for Best Supporting Actress, a Green Actor Skield Award, Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor, and she received the Cannes Film Festival Award for Best Actress.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

Usually I watch I try to watch as many of the of like the nominees I can, but I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

We should watch this just because when we'll do a follow-up. 2024 would have been the award season.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

That's when, you know what? I missed a lot that season because I was in Diana at that time. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's what it was. That's that's what it was. So I missed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:21

We should watch it. Just like report back to each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

Like when we're we say that all the time and then we don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

I know. I really do want to see it though. I know we say that. So it's just funny that like we're like, Oh, we haven't seen that one, but like that's the one she won all the awards for. But sometimes it is those kind of like not as mainstream films that that happens with. True. Um, I have just a couple most of the fun facts I tried to put in with when I was telling you about the characters, but there's two

Fun Facts And Soundtrack Deep Cut

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

that I didn't know where to put them. So here they are. Yay. Amanda Schul revealed in an anniversary interview with People Magazine that dancing in those specific dyed red point shoes. Those great. It was actually pretty painful. Well, because they were like brand new. Yeah. Yeah. And but she still has them. She kept them as a memento. Those are so pretty. And then I read this before I watched the movie, so then I looked for it. The audience that's watching the ballet toward the beginning, the one where they're new students and they just go watch it and Jody's crying. Yeah. It's actually the same crowd shots for the showcase at the end. Smart. It's the same same. Smart filmmaking. Yeah. Because it's the same theater. Yeah and everything. But I thought that was really funny. That's funny. All right. So let's talk about the soundtrack. Really good soundtrack. Okay. I want to be with you, which I sang two seconds of because that's all I can remember. Uh, Mandy Moore. I love Mandy Moore. So that's in the opening credits and the core theme song. First Kiss is the background pop track during some of the school scenes. Don't get lost in the Crowd by Ashley Ballard. Hold on. Are these songs we know? I want to be with you. Yes. First Kiss, no. But that's why I'm telling you where they happen because maybe you'll kind of remember. Some of it feels iconic. I don't remember First Kiss or Don't Get Lost in the Crowd. Uh, We're Dancing, which is by PYT, plays over the first half of the end credits. No. Ooh, Friends Forever by the Thunderbugs. The Lima Ride to the Boat on Eric's birthday. Okay. When they're driving through the city. Get Used to This. I don't remember that one. A girl can dream PYT. Okay. Jamiraquai. Oh, right. I do love Jamiraquai.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

I did write down, I said I forgot how fire the soundtrack is. Robin is also on there. Yep. Because I wrote Robin, Jamiraquai, Mandy Moore, and then there was Red Hot Chili Peppers.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:35

Oh, yeah. That was the other one. Yeah, yeah. So Jamiraquai's Cosmic Girl is that initial jazz class when Ava's teacher. And in the intro. In the intro, yeah. In the intro, you're right. Higher ground, red hot chili peppers. That's that modern dance studio song. Uh cum baby cum is the salsa club night scene where they go out for Eric's birthday and they're all salsa ing. I don't know. And then The Way You Make Me Feel, Michael Jackson, Cooper's final rock ballet piece. If I was the one, do you remember that one? That's in the showcase as well. It's the part where she's in like the blue. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like going back and forth. Yeah, and then they like pick her up. Yeah, and then the sex scene. Uh, Canned Heat is Jamira Kwai, and that's her iconic final dance role in the red dress. It doesn't have Robin on here. What's on the side? She was in there. I don't know. I just remember hearing. We'll have to look. Yeah. And then there's I I want to be with you re-mex. Remake. Remax. Remax. Relax. You're working with Remax. That's all I know of that song. Mandy Moore's from Orlando, too. She is. Did you know that? Yeah. She got discovered probably by Lou Pearlman. I don't know. But um singing the national anthem at Orlando Magic Games. Love that. Yeah. What if we just bust in there and we're like, we gonna sing a song.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

We're gonna do this to be discovered. It will be a jail. I'm okay with it. You know about the jail part. You know what I wish they would do is I can't remember now what city has this, but they have like a grown-up dance team.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:04

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:05

Like uh like a professional like basketball team, and they dance at the halftime show, and it's like people who are like 45 and older.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I forget what they're called, but I've seen them. Last time I went to the Magic Game, I was like, who are they? They're awesome. Is there in Orlando? Well, there is one at the Magic Game, too. I don't know if they're 45 or older, but they're definitely grown-ass adults. And they do more like hip hop and they shoot t-shirts into the crowd. Is it Orlando that has it? It's okay. I'm auditioning. They were definitely at the Orlando Magic Game when I went last year. I'm doing it. Can you imagine? Instead of like at halftime where like the dancers came out, they came out and like did a whole thing. And some of them were playing drums and and I was like, these are grown people. This is awesome. And they were great. Oh, yeah. And their energy level was like through the roof.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:51

I'm auditioning. I forget what they're calling.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:53

Somebody let me know.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

Somebody look it up and tell me. I'm not even kidding. I will totally go do that. You would be great at it. Oh, except I don't like sports, but I don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

You don't have to. Just so you know when you're supposed to go out and what you're doing at each. Because you know, it is very formulaic for those kind of folks. Yeah, yeah. The first time out you do this. The second, yes. At the end of the first quarter, you do this. At halftime, you do this. Like two minutes before the game starts, you do this. Like it's just a call sheet, basically. Okay. They were amazing. All right. Well, watch out, guys. Okay, watch out. She's coming for you. You and stuff. Oh my God. Have you have you ever been to a magic game? No, I don't like sports. Oh my god. Their mascot stuff is the best. Oh, wait.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:32

Can I be the mascot? You could be. Wait, do you have to do flips? I can't do those.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

I don't think stuff does flips because a costume's too big, but they do tricks. Like they have the last time I was like magic? Um, they they sometimes do, but they have him or her on like a platform that raises way up in the middle, and they've got this giant like magic flag, and then they have like DJ stuff. So he like wears little headphones and he's like jamming the crowd. He's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

Everybody, listen. First, I'm gonna audition for this old people dance team. Second, I'm gonna audition to be mascot.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:08

No experience whatsoever. I think we should go to a magic game. I know you don't like basketball, but I'm telling you, the entertainment level is top uh notch just to see it in action. If you really want to do it, you gotta go see. Okay, and you'll be impressed, I promise. Okay.

Sequels And Ballet World Pushback

SPEAKER_01 1:11:23

So I already talked to you about the sequels. The only thing I didn't say was they were released straight to DVD or cable. Peter Peter Gallagher was in both.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:31

Okay, come on. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

Sir, sorry. That's Jonathan. I call him Betty Girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:35

All right, girl.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:35

I have to apologize, people, all the time. It's like it just comes out. It just comes out. All right. So I looked up controversy about the movie. Spoiler, really not much. Okay. But what I've already mentioned. So a lot of dancers seem to dislike the movie because it portrays the ballet world in a fake, unrealistic way. So this is from someone on Reddit. I just put their whole quote in here, who is a professional dancer. They said they have all the ingredients for a politically correct ballet movie. The girl that really wants to dance but isn't what companies look for, Jody. The womanizing dancer, Cooper, the gay dancer, Eric, the dancer who's been pushed into ballet by her pushy stage mom and is amazing but doesn't have the heart, Maureen, and the gum-chewing rebel, Eva, who just doesn't know how to suck up to the ballet master. Oh yes, and the girl who gets kicked out because she was too big, which I know we'll talk about when we get to our next. A lot of people, especially dance people, criticized it for not being realistic enough and not showing things the way they really are, although that seemed the main goal of the film, considering the type of characters. These are all common examples of dancers in the ballet world. So then she said, even though I agree the movie was unrealistic in terms of showing the real hard stuff one must consider. Would a viewer actually want to see a movie about a day, month, year of the life in a dancer? Would anyone really watch all the footage was dancers massaging sore bleeding feet? I know I wouldn't. She said they showed Jody's feet at the end of a practice practice session, which gave the viewer a glimpse into what it's like to dance on point, and I think that was more than enough. So that was her opinion. Um oh, she said, and then she just said, exaggerated as this film may have been, it definitely gave the uneducated audience some sort of understanding of what it takes to get into a company.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:22

I mean, it's Hollywood.

unknown 1:13:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

You know. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:25

It's not a documentary. It's like any sort of performing, the performance part is the glamorous part. Yeah. All the other stuff really isn't. Right. I say that a lot to my students in here, particularly ones that are trying to get into film or TV, but even, you know, musical theater performers, you know, kids will come in and they'll be like, man, I just sat at rehearsal for two hours last night. I'm like, well, were you watching the other performers and like seeing what they were doing? Were you like reading your script? Were you, you know, because a lot of any performing in the real world, or whether you're doing it as a kid or volunteering, is waiting, is waiting your turn, is preparing for when it's your turn. And that's the part that's not glamorous. I mean, sports is like that too. Sports is like that too, right? And dance, which is kind of a combination of the two, right? The athleticism, where there's all those hours of the things that are not necessarily quote unquote fun, but you have to at least have a base enjoyment of those things to make it. Well, otherwise you're not gonna last. You're not gonna last.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:26

And also, especially with theater, it's not just about you. You're putting on a show, and every single person that's a part of it is important. And I can't even tell you grown-ass adults who I've done theater with have no idea what the rest of the show is about except when they're on the stage. Yeah, that's crazy. That is so fucking crazy to me. Yeah. Like, how what do you mean? Like, how self-centered are you? And I'm not gonna throw no names under the bus because everybody knows at least one person like that. But I am always so surprised and being like, you really don't know anything except what you know when you go on stage, and that's really fucked up. Like, you need to pay attention because what uh leads, supporting, ensemble, whatever, you're all working together for this piece of art that is happening. Same with a movie. Like, you know, I just yeah, it's not all about you. It and and you have to know that. Like, you have to do your part as much as pay attention to everybody else at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:29

Well, and those details make a difference. Like what someone else is doing in a different scene does impact your character or whatever. Yeah, I kind of gave a note like that, not in a bad way, not that anyone wasn't doing it, but last night at a rehearsal of ours that I went to, we're using a lot of different levels and um people are spreading out, and in the group numbers, there's a lot of people. And I was because specifically because of the different levels and it me being up close, which is where the audience will be, I was finding myself looking from person to person because they were right in front of me. And I told them at the end, I said, look, like someone will be looking at you all the time. Right. Doesn't matter who's singing the solo, whatever, because you're so close to the audience and you're on so many different levels, remember that. Like, stay in character, give it your all because I looked at each one of you at different parts, several parts. I said, and you're all doing great. But keep that in mind that even in when everybody's literally out there, someone is looking at you. And what you're doing is gonna make a difference in how it comes across.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:30

Absolutely. And I love watching ensemble people. I'm too doing. And if somebody's sleeping out there, I'm like, oh, mm-mm. Doesn't matter, like somebody's looking at you, but also too, like, I think it's tricky when you are in an ensemble because you should always be in character, but you should never be in character so much that you take away from the scene. Also, though, and I think young performers have a hard time with that because they're like, Well, it's my moment, look at me. And sometimes you do have ensemble members that stand out, but and again, we can think of people that we have worked with in past times that they're like, This is my moment, and you are distracting from the story that is happening, right? And that is not being a good your job as an ensemble member is to support the story, right? And yes, be in character, do your best. But like if you're like, well, somebody's having a solo that has nothing to do with that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:26

Yeah, finding that balance where like you're being interesting and engaging, but not distracting, unless that is like a featured moment. Oh, sure. If you're so but if it's not distracting, if it's not your and an understanding who the moment belongs to. And you still can't help it. You might be doing that and someone's still looking at you. Oh, right. Maybe it's your family, maybe it's like someone who just thinks your costume's cool. Right. And so finding that balance of like, okay, I have to stay on, but the focus is on this person or this scene or this dance that's happening that I'm not in, or whatever. So yeah, it's just really interesting how how all of that comes together.

Rewatch Takeaways On Body And Pressure

SPEAKER_01 1:18:03

And let's talk about now our thoughts on the film. She brought her notebook back. I brought my notebook.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

Here it comes. We've been at this a while. Look at your research. Your research was good. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:13

I mean, we took a few little detours. And we talked about some of this stuff. Right. We need yeah, a lot of this, honestly, I don't have much more to say than I already did. I know. I think I said a lot of my stuff. Let's yeah, I just said Jameer Quai's music, so fun. The comment about Indiana's dance school, which I mentioned. And I just listed that quote from that person on Reddit, like, oh, they had this trope and this trope. But I really liked it. I really I think what I like about this movie is I really like a lot of the individual characters. Yeah. I didn't think there was like just anyone that I mean, I thought that um Ethan, the Cooper character, really stood out. But generally each character I liked, and I liked, I I didn't do any research on her, but the ballet w the woman who was the ballet, I really like her. She didn't think so. She said her acting was just like so good. Yeah, maybe she's on soap operas.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:03

I'm gonna find out. You know, maybe she is. Maybe she is. Well, though speaking of characters, the one thing I did like that I don't think I've ever noticed until I rewatched it now as a mom and a mom of older kids, is the two moms that I noted, like Maureen's mom, who starts off as like, you want, you hate her, like she's pushing her daughter. But when Maureen tells her, like, you are not noticing, I am struggling, and her mom is actually like, I'm so sorry. And she's emotional. And she's like, like she really didn't realize. So I liked her arc, the mom's arc. And then the girl that got kicked out because she was too big, she said, You girls, do not let anybody tell you to change you are beautiful the way you are. I love let's go. And what y'all need to understand is back in the late 90s, early 2000s, body positivity was not a thing at all, especially in the performing world. Right. So I did not notice that until this re-watch, and I'm like, I like that they did that because they could have just made the parents look like stage parent evil people, but they made them not be that way. And I or or they were, but then they she had a change of heart. Like, and she's like, I just want you to be happy with Maureen's mom, and then the mom's like, I'm supporting you, instead of being like, Well, you're too fat, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:18

Like, I mean, the mom, it sounded like the mom, Emily's mom, yeah, was like she called her mom, told her what happened. Her mom said, I'm picking you up right now. Fuck that. We are not doing this. And and she says in that same scene, she dances because it brings her joy. Right. And this, she's not joyful anymore. And I loved that scene too, particularly as a mom. And honestly, Jody's parents were great too. Oh, yeah, for sure. Because they're like, they're like, uh, should she really do this? Maybe Indiana has a great school. The opposite of being like, Oh, I you better get in, you gotta do it. You gotta be opposite, because you know, like they were very and then even like in the dressing room when they come to see her, which first of all she was surprised they were there, and I was like, What? I know. But she's like, Oh, I wondered if you were out there or you made it. And I was like, Hello? You wouldn't notice your parents from Indiana anyway, or you wouldn't assume they would be there, but they were there. But even her parents, they like have this like wide-eyed look like we don't really understand this world, but we're here for you. And then when her friends like all took her away, they were like, Okay, well, see you later, I guess. Like, they weren't offended, they were just sort of like, This is us showing up to support you. We don't really understand any of this, but here we are. Then they're done that. And I was like, Okay, like I can get behind that too. I feel like the parents in the film were pretty good. And I mean, obviously, Jonathan's character is a jerk, and um, I didn't think Maureen's mom, I liked her character arc too, how she was trying to I do think she was trying to do what she thought her daughter wanted her to do from a support perspective.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:48

Well, and I think I mean a lot of parents try to live their failed dreams vicariously through their children, which is unfortunate. Um, which I think she was doing subconsciously and not realizing she was doing that, which I think also happens a lot. But then when her daughter was like, Wake the fuck up, like I am not okay. And she had tried to give her hints along the way, but then eventually it got to like a really bad place. Her mom was like, Oh my god. Like I think she had that light bulb moment of like, oh no, like, yeah, oh, I did I contributed to this. And she was like, I'm so sorry. And I thought that was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:28

I thought that was really good too. So there was a little, it wasn't horrible, but there was a little bit of like the gay or straight stuff in the film. I know. Where like um Charlie, is it Charlie? Yeah, where the girls are looking at him and they're like, is he gay or straight? And they're like, straight. Straight.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:45

But I mean, I guess maybe that would be something you would ask of a cute guy who's I mean, and it's 2000, like the whole gay one or the other. There's no anything else. Well, I think that's the thing. It's the binary that now we're kind of like, okay. Now we're kind of like not really the deal. I got into a whole conversation with a younger person about this the other day. Uh one of the younger performers that I'm in the show with, because we were just talking about kids today, and I was like, you know, we've tried to teach our kids like you don't have to put a label on yourself unless you want to. And she's like, she's probably like 22. I don't know. She's in her early 20s, and she's like, you know, that's great. And she's like, because I have a very conservative Puerto Rican family, and they would never tell me that. She's like, I've tried to explain to them what being queer is and they just don't get it. And and she's like, and I'm like, so it was interesting to talk to her about it because I'm like, even though she has vocabulary and societal awareness that our generation didn't have, her parents are us, right? Right. Right. And they're like, they're not even willing to budge on that. So it's an interesting thing to to watch old things and see that was what was presented to us. Yeah. And now here we are raising children, and you and I are probably the same. Well, I mean, I know we are, so I'll just say that. And being like, you don't have to, but then a lot of people our age, this is what we grew up absorbing. Right. And are like, I don't know, it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:22

It's it's hard. It's hard to evolve, it's hard to change based on it. I think we you and I have the advantage, yes, our own children, but of interacting with younger people just in general, too. More than that's probably the average person. Right, you're right, you're right, right. We, you know, through our performing, through teaching, through whatever, we sort of interact with people outside of our children and our children's circles that are young. Yeah. So it kind of helps shape our worldview. And not everyone, you know, some people, this is yeah, all they've known, and maybe even they they feel they are progressive in whatever, but maybe might be still stuck in this kind of stuff. And that's just, you know, their life experience and where they're at.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:02

And I think a lot of people too, the older you get, like, I just feel like you're never done evolving. Like, I I just think you there's I always say if you're still breathing, there's time to change and change your views because I I do it all the time. Yeah. But I think a lot of times people get stuck, yeah. And they're just like, well, this is how I've always thought, and that's just where I'm gonna stay. And yes. Because it's hard. I mean, it's hard to challenge what you have always thought and think to yourself, oh, well, maybe there is a different way of thinking about this.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:33

It definitely is. Yeah, it's hard. Definitely is. Yeah. So, okay, so the gay or street stuff. Oh, and the body stuff. I was about to say, we probably need to talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:42

I mean, but that is a reality of yeah, not just dancing, but performing.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:47

I didn't think it was bad. I think, I think, you know, like I know now we've both watched The Crown, they had that trigger warning for um eating disorder stuff with Diana, which I thought was really important. Yes. Well, you don't get that in this film, so that was the only thing that I was a little like if you're going to the theater to see this, yeah, and then all of a sudden she's throwing up every meal she eats, and you don't really have a warning for that. It felt a little bit like of an attack, sort of. But again, they were trying to present, and it was presented as a problem, and it was presented as her being unhappy and feeling that sh the pressure to fit whatever this mold was that she didn't think she fit, and then the whole stuff with Emily. But it did feel a little like this is just like very triggering and could be for someone.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

Oh, yeah. But it I mean, considering the time period, there was not like on the flip side, they probably were like, look at us being so progressive talking about this at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:45

And it was good that they did, because it is a reality of all sorts of performing, but certainly ballet specifically, like the body dysmorphia and um the eating disorders and disorder, I guess disordered eating, right, is what we would call it now. But um it's so it's real, yeah. But you know, yeah, it was a big deal, and the way that they talked about which is funny, and I did I I was looking closer at Emily as an adult now, but I think they deliberately didn't show her body up close. Yeah. Because I was like, I can't really show she's not a big person. She wasn't, but I think they I think and then I thought, well, I guess that really wasn't the point.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:22

They just kept showing her snacking. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:27

You gotta snack if you're dancing freaking eight hours and say, come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:31

Also, you can be in a bigger body and not eat anything extra than anybody else. That's just how you biologically are made. Also, you can dance in a bigger body. So there's that.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:41

But it or or just and by bigger, that's so relative, right? Because that could be like a normal thin person, you know. So, and not to like bash the ballet world, I don't I don't think that that's the case with it's certainly not the case with every studio, with every group. It's evolved.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:00

But I mean, on a logistics standpoint, I know if you talk to some people who have been classically trained for a long time, there are some things that you do have to, I mean, just for the mechanics to work, you do have to be a certain height. Your limbs do have to be able to look a certain way. It's just part of the art form. Sure. But the some people are just naturally built. Like I keep thinking of my oldest. He is a naturally long and lean. Amelia's the same way. She's not tall. No. But she is that long, lean. That's just how they are. Right. Like Caden eats like shit. I'm not serious. I'm only 19. Like I harp on him all the time. Like three teenager dogs. I'm like, he's like, I want to run, I'm gonna be in an Iron Man next year. I was like, child, you better get your food together. You gotta eat more. Like, yeah, if you want to do these intense athletic things, you have to eat right. And I'm talking, get your protein. Yeah. He's like, well, I just ate a whole bunch of pizza. I'm like, no, sorry. Doesn't just mean eating more. You have to eat more of the right things.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:00

And like, yeah, and thoughtful eating. Things that well, and also just from an injury perspective. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. Like, if you're not eating the right things to shape your muscles and that sort of thing. Yeah, and build your muscle, then yeah. You gotta mash totally. But anyway, it's but he's young.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:14

Young young people be being young people. I just think about that. Like, there's some people are naturally lean like that. Like my body type is very different than my sister's. Like, we're both short, but I am very more stocky. Like, I can put on muscle very quickly. That's just the way it's too bad I'm suck at all sports, because I'd probably be pretty good at some sports. But I suck at them all and I hate them. So here we are. My sister is short as well, but she's not like stocky built like me. My dad and I had similar body types, and her and my mom have more similar body types, and that's just the way it is. Yeah. So that's part of part of ballet is the angles and the form and the things. And you do have to be a certain height. Like if me at 5'2 stands next to somebody who's 5'11, and we do some kind of arabesque situation, guess who's is gonna look better?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:14

Right, right, right. It's not gonna be me. And that's a good point. That's a good point because the body is the art in that, right? But right, but again, there is a lot of unhealthy things that that can go on. Yeah, which they did present. Um, what else did I say? I said the thing about Emily's mom too. Oh, when Jody's talking, I don't know why this hit me so hard, but when it's right before the showcase and Jody's really nervous, and then Charlie says to her, Well, just enjoy the moment, like we were talking about earlier. And then she says to him, Well, that's easy for you to say. Right. Right? Of course. Same kind of thing. Because it was pretty clear he's gonna get whatever offer comes his way. Because he's a ballerino, he's a ballerino, top ballerino. Uh he's a ballet master in real life. I know that's God bless him. He he and that's a person that's committed to the dance, and I don't mean the physical act of dance, but to the art form, the art form who has dedicated their life to furthering it. And I think that that is so, so cool. That is that is so cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:17

Let's talk about the chokehold. I wrote this because I rem the what I remember the most about this movie is that showcase number. And I said the chokehold, that closing number had on all of us. Oh my god. With that Michael Jackson montage and the bed scene, the bed, and then she comes out magically in the red outfit and the red point shoe. Oh my god. Oh my god. And I remember seeing that and seeing those point shoes. I remember the close-up of the point shoes, and I'm like, I bet those shoes fucking hurt because they're not like you see this. If you've never danced on point, you have to like, it is work to get them worn in so they don't hurt because you're dancing literally on your toe, and there's wood in the shoe.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:01

Your weight on your toes.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:02

And when you get them, they are stiff AF. So you have to do remember you saw the scene where they're like greeting them and they're banging them against the wall and they're in the water. That's real. That's like for real. That's real. But those red point shoes had not been worn in at all because they were made for that scene and they were supposed to look pretty. And so I'm like, damn. And then when you said that they heard, I'm like, yeah, well, yeah, we were you were right, but boy, did they look amazing. They did. I took points for like a year. I was really bad. I was not good at it. I just didn't have the dedication for ballet that you have to have. I don't have the dedication, the discipline. I'm not very fle by genetic nature. And I just, yeah, jazz was my thing. Jazz and musical theater dancing was my jam, but you have to have a foundation of ballet. You do, you do have to.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:52

Yeah, I mean, I took ballet as a kid. I never got as far as like on point or anything, but like I I still remember and those things really you do build on them. Yeah, you have to. All the things you learn and all of that. What else did you have about the movie? That's all that it that's kind of all I had to do. Yeah. So on what?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:08

Oh, we already talked about the pissing match. I just said, Oh, the yeah, it just was so funny how they're just like fancier turn and fancier turn. I was like, okay, sirs, like they're having like a a West Side story moment on the dance floor, like, I think it's brilliant. I thought it was and to know that they're like good friends like in real life is like really fun. What if what if we had a dance off? What would that look like? Well, you would win. You don't know first of all, we need to learn. Okay, when I was in college, my friend Michelle, we loved the movie Romy Michelle's high school reunion. Oh, yes. Do you know the scene at the reunion where they dance to um time after time? Yes. We would totally do that at bars.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:47

We like amazing. Where she's like here and they oh my gosh, that's what we need to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:54

That's what we need to learn. That would be fun. That would be fun. And wear the outfits. Yes. We gotta do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:00

Would you be Romy or Michelle? I don't know. Probably Romy. Right? I don't know. You know that whole scene where they're like, Are you the Mary or the Rhoda? And they're both like, I'm the Mary.

unknown 1:34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:13

I love that movie. We gotta rewatch it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:15

Yeah, we gotta watch that one. No, I don't have anything else. Okay. You have nothing else? No, I don't have anything either.

Ratings, Final Number Obsession

SPEAKER_01 1:34:20

On a scale of one to five, what rating would you give the movie? Oh, I enjoyed it. I would give it a four. Not all the way a five, but I would still give it a four.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:28

I think I'd do like a four and a half. Yeah. It was a good time. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. I love me a dance movie. Me too. Even bad ones.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:36

I just love I love watching people dance because good dancers make it look so easy. Uh-huh. Good dancers make you think you can do it, and then you hurt yourself. I I admit. I was like, ooh, I wonder if I could still do this in my living room dancer. Not really. Not really. Uh no, I can still dance, but that, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:58

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:58

It was a really good movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:59

Okay. Well, I'm glad we re-watched it. And let us know, listeners, if you too are center stage fans and what you think of the movie 26 years later. Wild. Crazy. Why? Crazy, crazy. And stay tuned. Uh, I don't we don't start our Xennial Girl Summer next week. Yes, we do. Oh, it is Ramona's next week. Yay! Oh my gosh. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:22

I got my books in the mail yesterday. Also, they sent me, so I ordered from Thrift Books. Shout out. I love to order used books from there. Except they sent me the wrong book for one of our books. Oh. You ready for this? Yeah. I'm like, I open up, I open it up, and I'm like, oh yay, here's Ramona. Here's Sweet Valley High. Here's Anna Green Gables. And then I was happy to discover it wasn't as long as I thought it was. Yeah, it's not too long. Then I take out, I was like, this other book seems very little. It was supposed to be from the mixed-up files, Miss Basilie Frankweiler. I take it out. It's this little like gift book, and it's like A Beautiful America by Walt Whitman. It's both that was a good book, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:02

I will say. Do you have that? Uh yeah, I think I do. What? Yeah. Are you serious? You don't have Walt Whitman poems. No. We have a lot of poetry books. Because my husband and I both like poetry.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:12

This looked like a gift book from like Hallmark. It was like little. Well, you can have it. Okay. Because I was like, I'm gonna email them, but does it have on leaves of grass in it? Girl, I didn't read it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:25

We'll be done on that. So Ramona, Ramona, Ramona Creb. I cannot wait. And you're researching it because it's your book. Okay. Yeah. I just gotta read it. Yay. I'll do it. And it's short. You'll read it one day. Oh, I'm so excited. Yeah. All right, cool.

Next Reads And Closing Requests

SPEAKER_01 1:36:37

All right, guys. Well, thanks for listening. And be sure you're leaving us a review wherever you listen. Yay. Uh a couple words in the review would be great. But we'll also take just stars and follow us on YouTube if you aren't yet. We're almost to a hundred. I know. You'd be a hundred at that. I know. Everyone get on there. We've been climbing up, climbing up. Um and we will see you next time here on Generation in Between. Bye. Bye guys.