Wild Moos

Wild Moos Podcast: Episode 11 - Save Water, Drink Champagne

• Amy Lewis and Nicole Bilham • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Unveiling the Journey of Transformation and Resilience in Branding
Join us as we embark on a captivating exploration of branding's transformative power, where shifts in identity can send ripples through the market, invoking both challenge and opportunity. In this episode, we delve into the remarkable evolution of household names, examining the pivotal transition of GMTV to Daybreak—a journey fraught with challenges yet rich in lessons on brand resilience and adaptability.

We venture further into the complex world of social media, uncovering its double-edged sword: a realm that can entangle brands in controversy, yet also offers unprecedented opportunities for growth, learning, and stronger audience connections. This dichotomy underscores the critical importance of navigating the digital landscape with agility and authenticity.

Celebrating Brands That Resonate with Authenticity
Raising a glass to the brands that have seamlessly woven themselves into our lives, we celebrate the likes of Oliver Bonas, Pret, and John Lewis. These brands have not only captured our loyalty but have also become synonymous with genuine customer engagement, setting benchmarks for authenticity in the corporate world.

From the inspiring tales of Brew Dog's craft beer revolution to the cherished moments spent in culinary gems like Roka, we salute the experiences that leave an indelible mark on our hearts and memories. These stories are testaments to the enduring power of brands that prioritise meaningful connections over mere transactions.

A Toast to Our Journey Together
As we conclude, we envelop you, our cherished listeners, in a warm embrace of gratitude and support. Together, we've traversed the dynamic terrains of life and business, celebrating the resilience and multifaceted nature of branding. Let's continue to inspire and uplift each other on this shared journey of discovery and growth.

Show Notes and Resources
Onward Book (Starbucks Story): Dive into the revitalising journey of Starbucks as it reclaims its essence. Find it here: https://amzn.eu/d/2d5lkGK
Seattle Fish Market: Experience the vibrant energy and lessons from the world-famous fish market: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3azPwinY1oE
Connect with Our Guests
Nicole Bilham, the visionary behind WildBird Marketing Agency, crafts strategies that make brands soar. Discover more at WildBird Marketing: https://wildbirdmarketing.co.uk/

Amy Lewis of The Mooeys Group, navigates the beauty industry with a blend of humor, warmth, and expertise. Explore the Mooeys experience at www.mooeys.co.uk | For franchise opportunities, visit www.mooeysfranchise.co.uk | Delve into MooSkin at www.mooskin.co.

Nicole Bilham of WildBird Marketing Agency
https://wildbirdmarketing.co.uk/

Amy Lewis of The Mooeys Group
www.mooeys.co.uk | www.mooeysfranchise.co.uk | www.mooskin.co

Amy Lewis:

So, hello Welcome Hello.

Nicole Bilham:

Hello, we are coming to you from our homes. The shit tip of the corner of my office. This is my freezing, fucking cold conservatory Welcome.

Amy Lewis:

Have you got your heated blanket on your lap? Oh, Nicole, you are just the cutest. Look at you with your little plaques. You're so scrumptiously unctuous. Ah, cough Right.

Nicole Bilham:

This episode is brought to you by something completely fucking random.

Amy Lewis:

It really is, but it's valuable, I feel. Oh bold.

Nicole Bilham:

What are we even going to call it?

Amy Lewis:

What is that saying about champagne, champagne, lifestyle, lemonade budget, prosecco budget? No, I thought it was lemonade, but maybe, since Prosecco has come out, it's turned into a Prosecco budget.

Nicole Bilham:

What about sparked by shampoos? Because that's where this has come from, isn't it?

Amy Lewis:

I like it. I've got one here safe water drink champagne.

Nicole Bilham:

Let's call it that.

Amy Lewis:

Safe water, drink champagne 100%. Yeah, I don't like champagne.

Nicole Bilham:

So you may notice if you're watching us on YouTube. If we ever upload this to YouTube, we'll have to see that we are both having a little beaverage. So we tried to record in this week, didn't we? And I didn't have it in me. Oh, it was so shit why. It was really dry. I put it down to the ground. We just knew where to put it in it.

Amy Lewis:

It was like pulling teeth out and we got into about 45 minutes and we were like fucking hell. If we managed to chat shit for 45 minutes, it's awful. Let's just suck it off.

Nicole Bilham:

We should do an episode on motivation.

Amy Lewis:

We had none. We gave up Big fat none. But what's that saying about knowing when to quit? It's something about sign of a great leader, or the best leaders know when to quit. Yeah, something, yeah, yeah, I'm pleased we did I feel like that was it.

Nicole Bilham:

It was, but also technology told us to quit. Halfway through it. Your Mac just went. Oh no, no, fuck this, I'm bored and failed.

Amy Lewis:

Something to do with my RAM, Something to do with my RAM storage or something I don't know. It just went. I've been stuck and we're like, oh God, I put the Mac by the sauce.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah yeah, that's valid. But one thing that did come out of that conversation was my love for champagne. Get in my mouth, I know.

Amy Lewis:

Cover me in it, I fucking love it honestly, and I was absolutely gobsmacked by this because I don't really know you that well. So every time I'm with you, I learned something new, which is just magical, and I love it. However, I just would never have expected it of you. When it came out of your mouth, you were telling me about champagne and what grapes is. I was like what the fuck Like? Who is this person? So it's telling me Dr Blanc and all this shit.

Nicole Bilham:

Oh, it went in. Fuck me, I must have done a good job, thank you.

Amy Lewis:

It went in Pinot noir Blanc. I can't believe. You like Blanc de Blanc and I was like and this is relevant.

Nicole Bilham:

This is so relevant because, if you think of champagne as a brand, it has fucking excelled itself. If you think about the time that it originated, I don't even I've got no facts. This is all what's exist in the Coleshead. I've got no research on this other than the fact that Matt myself and our best mates have been to Rheem and we have been to champagne and we have visited champagne houses. Before that point, because I used to do a lot of hosting clients, on lunches I would have champagne. I didn't really fucking care about it, it wasn't, I didn't get it. But you know, when you go somewhere and you learn the story I don't know if you've done like, been on a gin tour or been to visit a brewery or anything like that it just brings it to life. You buy into it, right, because you're like oh, this, this is how I feel. So it was the year after. I think it was the year after our besties got married. Mj, the husband, decided to give Michaela, the wife, a date night or a date token every month for the next year. That's so cute.

Nicole Bilham:

For February half term it was a trip to Rheem, but we'd had a secret WhatsApp group for months leading up to it so we could book it, we could organize it without Michaela knowing, and these four children? Oh, fuck, yeah. No, you didn't take the fucking kids there, jesus Christ. So we got in the car I can't even remember when it was, but the Euro study, the Euro tunnel, was booked. Matt was driving. We drove to their house, knocked on the door. She opened it. Mj told her to pack for the weekend, bring your passport. Didn't know where she was going, opened the door and we were like Hi, and she was like what the fuck? And we were like I couldn't hold it. You won't say that again. Oh God, help us.

Amy Lewis:

What are they doing here?

Nicole Bilham:

And I'm very good at keeping it secret until I don't need to keep it secret. And the first thing I said was we've had to seek one WhatsApp group. It's leaky pipe Only when it's fake. And we traveled to Rheem, so we learned a lot about champagne, and all four of us, as pretentious as it is, have now fallen in love with the stuff.

Amy Lewis:

So, bougie, I feel a bit like that with rose wine, but like French dry rose wine I love really a love whisper, an angel. It's one of my favorite ones, with ice in the summer Sometimes, but it doesn't normally last that long that it needs ice. It's like loopy juice, isn't it? Because it goes down so well, you end up getting absolutely annihilated. I've done this summer.

Amy Lewis:

I love a love whisper an angel, but I actually prefer their low other wine called the palm. Yeah, it's like a cheaper version of whisper an angel. It's got a really cool I'd be the vibes label.

Nicole Bilham:

Oh nice.

Amy Lewis:

But yeah, they've got a shadow that they have all of their wines in as well and you can go and stay there. Matt, really want to go one day, one day, one day. So tell me about your trip to champagne, we had the first thing that we had.

Nicole Bilham:

So we stayed in Rheem and then we visited the champagne houses in Champagne and the first thing that we had was poppy.

Amy Lewis:

It's Rheem in Champagne, just so I know.

Nicole Bilham:

Rheem is outside of Champagne. Champagne is the region where the vineyards are. You cannot call anything Champagne unless the grape is from the Champagne region. Yeah, so some of the Champagne houses are in Rheem, but where the grapes come from have to be in Champagne. Wow, if you bring that back to a brand, that's amazing. So you've absolutely capitalized on something that you can charge a really high price point for, because the supply is limited and it's. You can't go anywhere beyond that. And also you've protected all your competition as well. Like fucking hell. Whenever this case, whenever whoever came up with it, kudos to you. I mean, I don't know who came up with it or who made that rule. I told you I didn't do any fucking research. I mean it would have been good if I had some, but nothing, I've got nothing, sorry. I can tell you about how fabulous it was, though.

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, how long were you there for?

Nicole Bilham:

Four nights, I think, and the first thing we had was Piper Hyde's egg. We spoke about that the other day because you got bought a bottle after Piper was born. Right, yeah, the Rose, it was lovely Nice. So you go and visit all of these champagne houses. We went to Pomeray, we went to you, ready for the probably the biggest pretentious thing I'm going to say on this body yeah, it's not pronounced Moe, it's actually Moet.

Amy Lewis:

No, yeah, it's actually called Moet.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah.

Amy Lewis:

Why did they not just stick with Moe? It sounds much better Moet. It's ridiculous. I don't like Moet.

Nicole Bilham:

You do, though, don't you? Do you think you'll start calling it Moet from this point on? I mean, I've known that fact. I don't like it, I'll call it Moet because I think it makes it sound worse.

Nicole Bilham:

So we visited loads of champagne houses. We got fucking wasted on champagne. All four of us love the way that it makes us feel. It was a beautiful experience, but the reason why we thought we'd talk about it now is because of the brand positioning, which also led us to earlier talking about brand names and where they come from. What? Yeah, no, are we not siloing into that? You're not feeling it. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about.

Amy Lewis:

What do you mean? Brand names is in like, when I talk about single words, can we go in there? No, oh, here we go. No, I'm not going to. So I have a theory.

Nicole Bilham:

I'm not. We can go there.

Amy Lewis:

I'm not going to, I'm not going to shame you on it again, but so I have a theory that the strongest brand names are singular and I propose this theory and that is why one of the reasons I chose Moe's because I wanted muffs and Moe's and I just won, it wouldn't go on every high street but also Moe's I just felt was more captured, like what's the word? I'm a bit pissed Captivated. Captivated, that's the word. Yeah. So I was like yeah, because you think, like Starbucks is one of my favourite brands of all time Virgin. And then I was like Costa Nero, subway, all these brands. I was like one word is and what did you say earlier?

Nicole Bilham:

What was your favourite, one of your favourite brands? Oliver, bonus.

Amy Lewis:

I know, oliver Bonus, what a prick over it. It's not one. I saw it. I made up. Obviously it wasn't any fact. I just saw one name brand. One name brand, oh.

Nicole Bilham:

God, this is seeing your mind Opened up in here is brilliant.

Amy Lewis:

Absolutely brilliant. No, I'm a bit disappointed in my own stupidity.

Nicole Bilham:

But stupid. No, you're right, there's something in it Like one word brands are very strong, very, very strong.

Amy Lewis:

Thank, you, thank you. Tell me your marketing expertise opinion.

Nicole Bilham:

Oh no, I wouldn't go that far. I was going to share an experience which probably might make you laugh. I was working at GMTV when they rebranded Daybreak. Is that what it's called? No, it's called Good Morning Britain now, but there was a time when it launched as Daybreak with Adrian Charles and Christine Bleakley.

Amy Lewis:

I mean, it sounds great Daybreak.

Nicole Bilham:

So they'd found it out to a marketing agency, a branding agency Can't even remember who it was, and it was all like, hush, hush, like Adrian Charles is coming, we're going to relaunch. No one knows what it's going to be called. It's going to be amazing. This is when ITV had bought out the remaining share of Disney, so then GMTV had become fully owned by ITV and they wanted to rebrand it. And we're all like, as you can imagine, everyone's job's under threat.

Nicole Bilham:

No one liked ITV at the time. It was kind of like fuck you, what are you fucking talking about? Shut the fuck up Like. We've done it for all these years. Fuck you, it was awful. We're like really, really tall, and I remember being sat.

Nicole Bilham:

It was like oh, come to the great unveiling of what the branding is. You get to see it before general public. And we were like right, yeah, I can hear me fucking go, I can. I can like hear the people the names of the people that are sadly no longer part of the company that were spearheading this sort of like. This is the way. We know the way to go. We know how to build breakfast television, whereas up until that point we were the only people in the market that were doing it and doing it well. So it's like this huge presentation. As you can imagine. There are probably 50 to 100 people in the room clicking through like here's the research. These are all the brands that we've looked at and studied and researched and understood what they do and why it's so good. And here is the new logo and here's what it's going to be called. And everyone went looks like travel lodge. There you go Travelodge.

Amy Lewis:

There's another one.

Nicole Bilham:

You can't not see it once you see it, you can't not see it. They've spunked a whole load of hash like on a new studio. They tried to do this morning whether you have the glass windows looking over the Thames, because we were in the South Bank at the time, launched in April, still fucking dark at 6 o'clock in the morning. You can't see fuck all like. Then you've got this horrible issue of reflection and light. It was just, you know, when you look back and think, did no one go? Have we thought about the light in this situation?

Amy Lewis:

No, they wanted them to. And that's the problem, isn't it? When you get massive companies, they always think they know better, and it's actually the people on the floor doing the job every day. That would have been if they were involved in those decision making processes.

Nicole Bilham:

They would have been able to highlight all of that, yeah, but as you can imagine, the majority of the GMTV team, the originals, were going look at this. The sales team were going we've got a fucking service, what the fuck are we going to do? And the ratings took an absolute, complete dive off the back of it. Because if you think about GMTV as the brand I don't know if you watched it before or if you're familiar with it, but it is very clear, clearly a sunrise, like it's all the colours of sunrise, it's yellow, orange, red. It is full of light and full of warmth, and they had gone for purple with white, with dark windows, with someone Adrian Charles is not the most charismatic presenter that you could possibly imagine. Him and Christine didn't have that on screen chemistry at all.

Nicole Bilham:

As a viewer, what the fuck has happened here? Like the two brands were completely polarising and that's too jarring for any audience to resonate. You're just going to the ones that are like medium to light viewers. They're just going to fuck off and that's the same way. Can you think of any other brands that have fucked it up before? Like publicly fucked it up? I can? Oh, got on chair Twitter and X.

Amy Lewis:

I mean, I am not a Twitter user. I fucking hate it. I find it the most toxic place and I think it brings out the absolute worst of human race and I don't want to be part of that. I had someone tweet about my salon once and someone else told me about it and she was vile. She was a vile, vile human and she was just out to like. She was so venomous. And the worst thing is she worked for a PR company.

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, and you know, you just think do your bosses want to know about this? Because the way that you're bashing and it was proper like horrible bullying behavior. Oh, you just think, yeah, would your employers as a PR company? Would their customers want to know that you do this to other brands? Yeah, because I feel like small business owners, but brands in general tend to want to protect each other in that respect because they know how damaging it can be when you have that obnoxious voice that wants to share the world about how much they hate your company. And I feel like other brands would be like I mean, I wouldn't if I had a PR company and one of their team done that. I'd be like I don't want to have working on my business. Thanks very much.

Nicole Bilham:

Oh, 100%. Yeah, You've got to be diplomatic, haven't you? And you are always representing your brands, especially if you are, it's your business. But if you've God, I feel so sorry. Tell me what it is. It's a toxic place, but if you think about however many years it's been going, we've all known it as Twitter, twitter, twitter, twitter, twitter, twitter. It's like Facebook or Instagram changing their name and all of a sudden it's gone to X, like literally overnight. Minimal warning.

Amy Lewis:

What the fuck this is a. Elon Musk bought it right.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah. So Elon Musk bought it and then he relaunched it Again. I would liken it to the ego trip of GMTV versus Daybreak, and the hilarity is that's completely full circle, because it didn't work. The ratings took such a tumble that they had to relaunch this. Good morning Britain. And back to the orange yellow sunrise logo that we all know and recognise. So all of that money, all of that investment down the pan. I'm actually more brand damaging than anything else they've ever ever done, and I would say the same for Twitter and X. Like you've got this whole other piece of not protecting the people that are on there because of how toxic it is as a platform and not doing enough for that, but then also the branding piece and the brand recognition and the awareness dropping off a cliff because someone's just fucking decided that they want to call it something else.

Amy Lewis:

So tell me, like I don't know any of the detail and also don't watch the news. I know that's awful, but I don't have anything to do the news, I don't watch it, I don't read it. I feel like my little bubble is a very happy place and I don't want to ruin that. So what has actually happened with Twitter and X?

Nicole Bilham:

No, nothing, they've just relaunched. They've renamed it X.

Amy Lewis:

I've launched it, but has it fallen off the face of the earth? Have people stopped using it? Has it become this whole thing? That's a trend.

Nicole Bilham:

Brands have boycotted it, but they've boycotted it for a very different reason, very, very different One. That was with the war, and the other thing is you never know what's at play because you're talking huge tech giants that are constantly battling it out. So people did boycotted it, but it's not anything to do with the brand. I'm just talking as, like, a user, the brand entity and the awareness has completely changed because they've adapted it. There must be other examples throughout the like, throughout our time, where things have changed and people have gone. What the fuck has happened there?

Amy Lewis:

I think Mark's and Spencer's went through it, didn't they what M&S? Yeah, didn't Mark's and Spencer's go through that? Because they'd got really old fashioned and they didn't keep up with the times. And then they rebranded to like M&S and made it a bit funky and put like T, not T you that sounds prudent. What's that other one, peruna? They put all that in.

Nicole Bilham:

I thought they'd oh, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I should know and what I do, but no, not on that one.

Amy Lewis:

I find it absolutely fascinating Now when you see a company's growth and you see that scale up, but then you also you also see, like when it gets too big for itself. We've talked before about people changing, like people that have podcasts, that are business owners that change and I worry for that. And it's conversations I have a lot Like. I was having a conversation with a friend earlier about when I spoke to Tim. He said to me are you prepared, when you've got 50 salons, that you won't even know your franchisees? And I was like, oh, I don't know about that, I don't know how I feel about that.

Amy Lewis:

And when I was speaking to Tracy earlier, she was like you've got to you, pave your own way. And I said, well, I there's certain elements that I will always do something a bit different. I don't ever just follow suit with what's been done before because that's what everyone thinks is right. I will always challenge that, always have done in the industry, beauty industry or whatever. Like, how can we be the best? How can we be different? How can we? You know, I'll always question why does it always have to be that way?

Amy Lewis:

And I said what I would absolutely love is, when we get to that point that I have time that I can pick and choose. I want to create a focus group within my salon so that we have like a best practice focus group. So each representative from each salon can come together, they get together and we talk about how to improve different trends, how we grow, how we evolve, and they all have a massive input in the development of the business, but from each salon as well. And I was like I'd if they're doing that every six months, I'd kind of want to rock along and say, yeah, I can make that happen, or nobody that doesn't work or you know, be part of that.

Amy Lewis:

If they're all going to bring it to me like I'd really want to be part of that, that's what will make you different. Yeah, that's it. By being that entrepreneur that is not hands on but is actively involved, because you give a shit. And she said that's, that's one of your best qualities, but you care so much and I don't think you will ever change that because you won't let that happen. And I was like that. I care more about as I grow than the money.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah, I agree. I think you will always be present in all of those franchises, 100%. I feel that so much of this is about holding your nerve. So something always sticks in my brain is that the people that you trample on on the way up, you will hit on the way down.

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, yeah, I think about that a lot, you know, I think about that a lot.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah, and I also like if you put that, if you position that as a brand, the people that have helped you from the start and that have been there and been your ambassadors and have been your avatar, they are not going to change. So why, when you grow and you scale, do you begin to alienate them further? Because they are the thing that have made you successful. So this like trading it in for a newer, better model, which is what it feels like as a brand, I just I don't agree with at all, which is probably why I felt so strongly about the Daybreak versus GMTV. I know it was rooted in emotion, but I was also a fan. Like I was an avid fan. I watched it every single morning and all of a sudden, they are taking away a piece of my habitual life because it could be someone somewhere thinks that they can do better.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah, yeah, and it feels like abandonment, I guess, like as a consumer of a brand yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels like a brand and I think that you know that work that you do, however big you are, however small you are, as a brand, on your avatar, your values, your mission is so vital to your foundation, but it's so important that the bits that are important to your business and your brand you stick with because it is your original source, like, yeah, there's no other way to describe it is who you are, it's your brand DNA. Why would you change it the minute that you start to become successful?

Amy Lewis:

You are so right and that's I mean. That's why I get so infuriated with this podcast, not as this other one that I listened to. I've listened to it for years, I've loved it for years and I'm not going to say what it is, but you will probably all guess it's a business podcast, one of the biggest in the world. I loved it, I was an avid fan, I was a biggest cheerleader and now it's just all like science, it's not business, and it feels to me a bit inauthentic, like the people that are sponsoring that podcast and now the people being interviewed as the experts in their field to promote whatever they're talking about, yeah, and I was like you know, I think there was a title that said if you eat this, it will make you die or kill you, and I was like I don't want to fucking know about that.

Amy Lewis:

I like this podcast because of the business chat and because of the real life stories and the authenticity and the realness. Like I don't want to know about what sort of food I need. It's going to kill me because one gadget on my arm is telling me. Like I'm so excited and so annoyed.

Nicole Bilham:

Well, it's clickbait, isn't it? We have, I feel that we have turned into a culture of clickbait and that is saying something really, really shocking. That's got no relevance to the content, but just in order to get eyeballs on it. That is what people are saying. It's all of the things that we don't believe in and that we run away from. It's the people sitting there saying you can have a six figure business if you buy this. It's all of that because they're going hello, fucking idiot Like you. You. They're sitting sausage coming by this because you are missing out on what we've got.

Amy Lewis:

I had an email the other day, I think I said to you, didn't I? I had an email the other day that said if you're not making 10 figures, you're failing or something. I was like fuck you, you know, but for a lot of people they would look at that and go, oh my God, I'm failing because I'm not doing it and therefore I need that.

Nicole Bilham:

Like I hate that kind of marks him Like if you are standing in your truth and you are doing what makes your heart sing, all of the good shit will come towards you Like you just can't. You can't fake that. So brand authenticity, I guess, is what we're talking about, isn't it?

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, what very much so. And it started on champagne, yeah, but it is about brand authenticity.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah, tell me about some of the brands that you love and why.

Amy Lewis:

Oh, starbucks is probably my favorite brand of all the time. I love it. I love everything about it. The difficulty is it has been. It is now farmed out so much and so quickly. I don't think the standards are there as much as they used to be. I love the concept that they will never kick you out of a coffee shop so you can work there all day and buy one drink. It's their policy. I don't know if it still is, but it was used to be their policy when they started. This is how much I love it. I went to Seattle to the first ever Starbucks.

Nicole Bilham:

Wow, that's commitment, isn't it?

Amy Lewis:

Hello, I wanted to go to the first ever Starbucks and I wanted to see where they filmed that famous fish video. Have you seen it? No, so it's in loads of management training and it is so cool. It's not ancient now but it's teamwork and they've got this really cool undercover market in Seattle. It's just over the road over, across and down from Starbucks. They've got this fish stall and it's all about teamwork and this fish stall was actually really struggling.

Amy Lewis:

It's a true story, but they were really struggling and then this guy came in to change it and he basically focused on. It wasn't a margins, he was focused and it wasn't anything else. It was the dynamic between the team. And now you go and it's now just a big show and they'll throw massive salmon over your head and stuff and it'll be like over to you and then they'll bag it all up and all of that and it's just so much fun and it's really high energy and it was worth going. I mean, I absolutely love Seattle anyway. But yeah, I've got a picture that I bought in that market still of Pike Place, the first Starbucks in my picture.

Nicole Bilham:

That reminds me of, like the energy that reminds me of the end of the show show on Saturday night takeaway. Do you know what I'm talking about? I've never watched it. So they, I think, when they did their first episode. They do this thing now, which is end of the show show, which is literally a climax of the biggest, fattest energy that you could possibly imagine. They'll bring out bands, they'll bring out dances the first one that they did they ended up in the Mulberry Bush, which is the pub opposite the old ITV studios, and they live, obviously, as you can imagine, and the energy on it, even if just watching behind a screen in your own home is so, so unique. It sounds a bit like that I love it.

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, I love it all when a brand nails it or when a business nails it and you're like, yes, I want in, I want to be part of that. I love what you're doing. I'm so, so pleased to be a customer. Yeah, and our backs and pipe place the actual coffee shop is beautiful. I just love the story. I've read his books. I just I think it's all really cool. I love Oliver Bonas yes, two names. I love their clothes. I love the quality. I really want to have the money to be able to buy all the signs and all the shit that goes along with it. I would have my whole house looking like leopard print with knee on signs, like I love it so much. But I am their perfect customer. But a slightly richer version of me would be their perfect customer because, yeah, everything it's all my taste so, and one of my favorite jumpers is from there. Actually, it's really good quality. What other brands I love? Pret as well, yeah, although when we connect to Starbucks, I think Pret's food's better.

Nicole Bilham:

Wow, why do you like Pret so much? You throw out some really interesting brands.

Amy Lewis:

I didn't think this, I just yeah, and I spend a lot of time in coffee shops because I'm always having meetings and when I go to the salon I'm constantly because we can't have conversations in the salons I'm constantly like all over the place. I love the food in Pret because it's so fresh. You know it's made that day when Starbucks. You know that sandwich is probably like it would have a shelf life of two weeks and they'd still toast it and it'd be fine. Pret, it's like fresh. They don't reuse it the next day. Yeah, wow, what else do I?

Nicole Bilham:

love.

Amy Lewis:

I do like a bit of John Lewis. I like what they stand for. I don't really buy much from there, but I do like them. Ah, copper Club. Have you ever been in a Copper Club? Yes, I have. Yeah, absolutely Love them Really.

Amy Lewis:

The experience, yeah, yeah you know what you're getting Good quality food. I work from there, the one in Hazelmeer. I work there loads. I've stayed there so many times. I've been to the one in Cobham as well. I just love it. It all looks the same. It has the same vibe. They do the best oat milk, flat white as well the best. I just love it. I like that environment where you feel appreciated for wherever you're spending your money. It's appreciated and respected. Excellent choices.

Nicole Bilham:

Any more to add.

Amy Lewis:

Moose, obviously, I just want one in Bedford, it's coming. Oh God, I know. Right, I think for me it's the story. I think it's the story. I think it's the story. I think for me it's the story. And also the values that a company holds. I love that Pratt staff all have the ability to give someone a free drink if it's going to make their day better. How cool is that? Yeah, yeah, what a great initiative. Whoever thought of that is an absolute genius. For all of the right things, but also the marketing, the PR they get from that, the brand loyalty, the employee support and appreciation there's so much all wrapped into that one small decision that cost them very minimal. Brilliant, it's absolutely genius.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, any more words.

Amy Lewis:

Do you know that centre parks I do love centre parks, even though I worked there for years as a brand. I love them, and centre parks have a rule that if a kid drops an ice cream, that any staff member can replace it.

Nicole Bilham:

No, I did not know, that.

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, they do.

Nicole Bilham:

How beautiful is that?

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, really like that. Because, it's like the magic thing to happen to a kid and a parent that spent five quid on a fucking ice cream or whatever it is. Every staff member has the ability to replace it for free.

Nicole Bilham:

I had no idea that existed. Yeah, I feel like they should do more on their marketing.

Amy Lewis:

They should do more and they have something called surprise and delights, which I just think are beautiful, and they focus on it a lot. I don't know if they still do, because it's been obviously like 10 years since I worked there, but it was a huge focus Like what are the small surprise and delights? What is it you can do as an employee or staff member that would make like a day bright now we call them day brightness in Moores but what are the small things you can do that could make an experience a little bit better without much cost associated?

Nicole Bilham:

to it. Yeah, you can't put a price on kindness from strangers, really.

Amy Lewis:

No, and it doesn't need to be loads, it doesn't need to be huge gestures and it doesn't need to be freebies all the time. It can just be kindness or yeah, we used to have, like chocolate hearts that we'd give out now and again. There was lots of different things that we'd be able to do, but, yeah, you actually had a budget in each department for surprise and delights.

Nicole Bilham:

That's cool, very, very cool.

Amy Lewis:

What about you? What's your favourite brand?

Nicole Bilham:

Okay, so I love it. I am Matt and I are equity punks in Brew Dog. So what Equity punks? We're shareholders in Brew Dog, are you? Yeah, we used to brew beer here. We brewed our own beer for our wedding, hopefully, ever after it was called. We've always been quite big into beer, like we really really enjoy it. I don't know if that, yeah, it's not. I was the beer drinker before meeting Matt, but we like craft ale, like things that are a bit funky. The besties who I was talking to you about on the Champagne front. We've been to many a beer festival with them Huge, huge fans.

Nicole Bilham:

For one of Matt's birthdays we went up to Ellen where Brew Dog's first, very first brewery is, and I mean we talk about epic sales techers. They take you on a tour of the brewery to share about how they the story, how they built it, all of that, and it's all about the punk lifestyle. So it's all about being a rebel, which is wonderful. That's where it originated from. At the end of that, you then get five tasting beers, but they go up in alcohol percentage up to like I can't even fucking. They were far I know they were when you get to the hamard right.

Nicole Bilham:

And then they put I can't imagine that they do this anymore. They get a clipboard and put it in front of you and say would you like to be an equity punk in Brew Dog, because they're crowdfunded? Initially and we were like, yes, thank you. I think we bought 500 quid, I'm in, get loads of perks off the back of it. But this was around the time that they were just launching their hotels where you could have punk IPA on tap in the rooms, you could take your dogs and it was really like singing to minor maths values. Where are they still at?

Amy Lewis:

them.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah, yeah, I think there's one in Manchester. They started in America. So, yes, brew Dog, definitely. I also think they're hilarious, like some of the things that they do.

Amy Lewis:

What's that one that you've got there?

Nicole Bilham:

This is Wingman, should be called Wingwoman, yeah.

Amy Lewis:

Should be Wingwoman right. You need to let them know. You need to tag them in this and say, oi, where's the Wingwoman.

Nicole Bilham:

So because I've been busy having children, this is the first time I've tried this one. It's very nice, so that's one of my faves. Number two on the list, I think it would be Mal Maison. Have you ever stayed at a Mal Maison? No, it's bougie, isn't it? Yeah, I don't know if they're as good as they used to be, but I probably stayed in one when I was 20 maybe. I went on a work trip to Manchester for a black tie dinner and I got there and was like oh, this is like the best luxury I've ever seen. Like poor old 19 year old from Luton never seen anything more exciting than that and I will never, ever forget the smell of their hand lotion Never, ever. It's really, really distinctive, just a beautiful, luxurious experience, as you can imagine.

Amy Lewis:

I had a boss once that used to live at the Four Seasons in Canary Wharf and he when we work on the ships. He wanted us to go and experience the service that you get just by ordering a glass of champagne in the Four Seasons. So he took us all there from Southampton just to have a glass of champagne in the bar area and experience the service. It was really cool, was it? Yeah, it was really really cool. And he was like if you ever want the best service ever, go to Four Seasons. And I've heard loads of people say that, but I've never had the privilege apart from that one experience.

Nicole Bilham:

No, me neither. I feel like I've done a lot of wonderful Michelin star dining experiences in London a lot, but none of them. Now what, five years later, are sticking out in my memory. Oh shame yeah.

Amy Lewis:

Have you got a favourite restaurant chain or pub trade chain or anything like that that you'd go to?

Nicole Bilham:

Oh, I love Rocker. Rocker is one of the might for me.

Nicole Bilham:

Rocker is a Japanese restaurant, so they do sushi, but they also cook on a yakitori grill, which is where they do that beautiful grilled meat. And there are a few I don't know how many there are now, but the original ones on Charlotte Street. It's lush, there's the food I'm a huge sushi fan anyway but the food is so fresh and so delicious, so you could pass that as did that a lot with work. Then for Matts 30th there's one in Canary Wharf, and at the weekend because there was minimal traffic on the weekends they'd run a really cheap or you can eat menu, a tasting menu, which was probably 60 to 70 quid a head, and you'd get to experience it alongside wine tasting as well. And we all went as a family and we all got absolutely fucking wasted. We had a lovely time. It's brilliant.

Nicole Bilham:

That for me is definitely the one, but I guess the things that I love are all about atmosphere, experience and really all of those senses Like I'm probably a bit hard to please when it comes to your favorite like shop though Clothes shop or like. I don't know. It's been a long time since I've bought clothes, isn't it because of the body change having two kids? It's been a very long time since I've been out shopping and shopping.

Amy Lewis:

Maybe I need to take you to Oliver bonus and you can take me to your Japanese restaurant.

Nicole Bilham:

Oh, that'd be a great day. Oh, my God, I do like. I've got a few Oli B things in the wardrobe Don't fit anymore, but they will soon. One day I do. I do what cafe you went to and you sent me a picture the other day, the pink one, ellen N, isn't it? Yeah, right, rn. Oh my God.

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, I think so. They've become everywhere now, aren't they?

Nicole Bilham:

I. This was the first time I had experienced it. The first time Because there's one at St Pancras and it was Matt's birthday. So we bought four slices of cake for £29, but they were delicious.

Amy Lewis:

It is beautiful, but that experience is meant to be incredible as well. Every time I go into London, I'll always pick up the kids.

Nicole Bilham:

something pink from L&N yeah it's just, it's so vivid, like the branding, I couldn't help but like stop in awe because it is so, so wonderful. Yeah, really really different as well. I love that Brands that are really being bold and different, Understanding that.

Amy Lewis:

Have you ever used Beauty Pie?

Nicole Bilham:

Yes, yeah, I do, I am a subscriber on Beauty Pie.

Amy Lewis:

I love Beauty. Pie yeah, very, very good, excellent model, but that's another brand, excellent model, very a bit complicated, and then, when you get your head around it, you're like oh yeah, however, it is getting pricier, so it's not as cheap as it used to be, but I understand that. But you can't access really incredible quality products without spending a fortune, because they're not paying for staff and counters and all that sort of thing.

Nicole Bilham:

Have I told you with the Jo Malone story I'm probably quite a big fan of Jo Malone before they got bought out, oh you have told me, but I feel like you should share it because it's really good.

Nicole Bilham:

So, Jo Malone, do this wonderful thing where you can mix your own fragrance. I don't know if they still do it, but they did it when Matt and I were getting married and we really, really wanted to do it. We couldn't afford it because it spunked all of our fucking money on our wedding. We went in and chose fragrances for each other that we would wear on our wedding day, and we always have those fragrances in the house. So whenever we like, if it's our anniversary and we're going out for a meal, or if it's a special evening out, both of us will always wear those fragrances. Well, I am. I can't speak for Matt. I am immediately transported back to shut my eyes, see myself walking down the aisle to him like immediately, because that smell just reminds me of that day. So so much. So that's probably it's an emotive reason why I like Jo Malone, but I also think that their brand is lush. The smells are lovely. Oh, it's so beautiful.

Amy Lewis:

They've absolutely nailed it, haven't they? It's so beautiful, and I think the takeaways from what we're saying is what is it that you can create in a brand that gives you all the feels? What do you want people to know you for? How do you want people to remember, like, how do you want to make people feel yeah? Yeah, because all of the brands that we've talked about actually have, like, an emotive or a reason why we love them so much, whether it's quality, whether it's consistency, standard service, whatever it is. That's all. That's what we're all striving for, isn't it? What do you want to be remembered for? Oh, impeccable value.

Nicole Bilham:

And I actually want to be known for. Oh, this is probably something unachievable. No, it can't be. Don't be so ridiculous, Nicole, but it's. All of my stuff is attached to feelings, so I want my clients to feel confident, comfortable, excited, like really, really motivated and proud of the content that we are providing for them, whatever that may be.

Nicole Bilham:

And, interestingly, I've had two conversations with this week with men about their businesses, and they are what's the big vision? What's the big goal? Where are we going? What does it look like? Where are you? You know those beautiful conversations that you have that are so important to what we do, and I always find that it's harder getting out of men than women as a, if I'm to generalise, harder getting out of men than women, yeah, and both times I said to the men separately there's completely different businesses. Sometimes that vision is a feeling so put yourself in those shoes of what that future self looks like. How does it feel? And they both looked at me like have you fucking lost the plot? What are you asking? So sometimes it's about knowing your audience, which clearly I do. Anyway, back to you. What do you want to be known for?

Amy Lewis:

I want to be known as the beauty business you can always trust. Yeah, because there's a lot of people out just to make a shit ton of money. There's a lot of people out that are just on top of trends that I can't bear because it's okay, but the normal person doesn't care. If you get a mold of your vulva or if you've had a wax, can you believe that's a fucking trend, that you have a wax done and they give you the hard wax when they take it off of your vulva? Oh, it's me out every time.

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, I want to be known as the brand you can always trust. Trust that we have got the best products. Trust that we've done the best training. Trust that we give a shit. Trust that we have your best interest at heart. Trust that we value for money. Just trust that you're in safe hands and that we give a shit with it because we want to be Whether that's franchise, whether that's music, whether that's movies, like professional, all of it. I just want people to feel like I've got their back and that I'm supporting them.

Nicole Bilham:

I suppose my final question is why are you interviewing me again? I'm just no, just a little one.

Amy Lewis:

It's a question to us.

Nicole Bilham:

Yeah, how do wild moos? What do wild moos want to be known for? Same?

Amy Lewis:

fucking thing, man, trust, we've got you, we've got your best interests. We give a shit, all the same things. We want you to succeed. We want to be your cheerleaders. We want you to feel like you are sat in our offices with us having a good old chat. If we're helping you with a business plan, it's because we know what we're doing and we want to help. All of the content we're bringing, everything, all of the value we're bringing, is because we give a shit and you can trust us. That's what I feel. How do you feel? I'm two glasses of wine, so I'm not talking absolute bollocks.

Nicole Bilham:

No, all of the same. All of the same. For me it's about that you're not on your own. We are here with you. Please, let us be by your side. Let us cry with us, Love us. We are here for every bit of it, All of the pain, but all of the wonderful success. When you need cheering along, like you say, we're going to be there too. Right? Any more to add on this Other than bye. Do we say goodbye?

Amy Lewis:

Yeah, see you later guys. Bye.

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