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Wild Moos
Welcome to Wild Moos, the no-holds-barred podcast where the boardroom meets the playroom.
Hosted by Amy of Mooeys and Nicole from Wild Bird Marketing, this podcast dives into the messy, joyful, and often chaotic life of being a mother and a business owner.
Every episode is a candid exploration of the trials and triumphs that come with juggling spreadsheets and sippy cups.
From start-up stories that defy the "perfect mum" myth to scaling a business without sacrificing sanity, Amy and Nicole share it all.
Expect laughter, tears, and plenty of swear words as they peel back the curtain on what it really takes to thrive in the dual worlds of business and motherhood.
Wild Moos is a community, a confession booth, and your cheerleading squad all rolled into one.
Whether you're knee-deep in nappies, drafting business plans, or just dreaming about what could be, Wild Moos is the podcast for every mum who’s ever had to lock the bathroom door just to answer an email.
Tune in for your regular dose of inspiration, commiseration, and a reminder that you're not alone on this wild ride of entrepreneurship and motherhood.
Wild Moos
Wild Moos Podcast Episode 17: Navigating the Highs and Lows of Business Growth, Beauty Industry Evolution, and the Tender Journey of Pet Loss
Ever found yourself knee-deep in the chaos of scaling a business, or grappling with the tender moments of pet loss? Hold on tight, because we're holding nothing back as we explore the emotional spectrum of life's challenges and triumphs. We crack open the realities of running a business, from the freedom and hurdles that come with transitioning to a fulfillment service, to setting new standards in the beauty industry that go against the conventional grain.
Joining us this week are some of the beauty industry's trailblazers, whose dedication to excellence has set the bar high for others to follow. As they share their wisdom, we also tackle the lighter and darker sides of our existence, embracing the power of laughter even in the face of loss. This episode is a rollercoaster of insights, from the empowerment of an "with or without you" mindset to the delicate conversations around pet cremation and the evolving landscape of TV advertising.
But it's not all business talk and somber musings; we dive headfirst into the nail care industry's need for education and accountability, unlocking the strategies for dealing with common issues faced by professionals. With a focus on client service, we dissect the shifting seasonal trends and the responsibility that comes with introducing new products. So, whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur, a beauty industry professional, or someone navigating the intricacies of loss and remembrance, there's a seat at our table in this candid conversation about the rich tapestry of life.
Nicole Bilham of WildBird Marketing Agency
https://wildbirdmarketing.co.uk/
Amy Lewis of The Mooeys Group
www.mooeys.co.uk | www.mooeysfranchise.co.uk | www.mooskin.co
Hello, hello, cheeky chops. Alright, naughty tortoise. Why am I a naughty tortoise? Because you've been staying up late and working.
Speaker 2:I have, I'm really tired. I'm really tired, I'd say I have to. I just feel like the last couple of weeks have consumed me emotionally and have stopped me from doing all my normal stuff and I just want to catch up. And this week I haven't been travelling. So because I haven't been travelling, I've been wanting to focus, but Martin's not very well, bless him. I've got to catch up in the evening, so I've been working really really late, like there was one night I went to bed at one, I know.
Speaker 1:Was that the night that I had you on the phone until?
Speaker 2:mega late. I'm sorry. He had me on the phone until half ten and I was like I'll get back to my work now then.
Speaker 1:Well, if it makes you feel any better. I went to bed shortly after that, and then Hope woke up immediately, and we were probably up for three hours.
Speaker 2:So I think, yeah, we're equal, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It really fucked us in conversation dude Really bad.
Speaker 2:This is a great conversation. I think Was it just waffle?
Speaker 1:It was definitely waffle, because we didn't get the feel of each other in the day, because we couldn't speak, because it was too busy. What did we do? Well, you text me saying I'm sorry I couldn't talk. I can't even remember we didn't speak in the day.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, the whole day yeah the whole day. I know we do speak to each other at least twice a day, don't we?
Speaker 1:I know I speak to you more than I speak to Martin. I think yeah, I speak to you more than I speak to Martin, especially when he's on shift, do you? I've replaced you with Amy, sorry.
Speaker 2:Oh, bless him.
Speaker 1:I feel like Martin feels that way, right, so let's recap how long is it we're going in? Yeah, yeah, we're in Balls deep.
Speaker 2:I've got the worst image in my head, right. Oh my God, what is that film? It's so funny, saltman. No, there's a film and there's women in a bathroom. Oh, fucking hell. If anyone's listening and knows this film, it's brilliant. And the women are in the bathroom and they're talking about their husband at the immaculate conception. The husband's never really had a hard-on and she was like well, how did you make babies? She went, I don't know, but I just kind of fold it up and shove it in. Oh my god, oh fucking hell. What film is it? It's not bridesmaids, but it's something like that. It's like the hustlers or something like. I can't remember what it is and I'll never forget it. It was just that moment. I was like that is hilarious. Thank god I don't have that problem is this going to go into show notes then it's homework for everyone.
Speaker 2:Watch this, because it'll make your life what is that film?
Speaker 1:we'll find out and report back. So it's been.
Speaker 2:How long has it been since we've recorded A week, I don't know. It feels like a lifetime. I feel like this last week I've done like a year's worth of work in a week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been intense, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, really, really, really. And it was about holiday. So then you've got a shorter week, so I end up. That's why I've been working late.
Speaker 1:That's because I actually had Monday off I felt smug because I worked a bit of Monday, but really it doesn't make any fucking difference whatsoever. So I got on to Tuesday and was like, ha oh, fuck, I've got two days worth of work to do in one day. I'm not smug at all or less, actually, because I only work. I don't work Fridays, oh my god yeah, oh, and you're here now.
Speaker 2:So three, three days this week. You're here, we're really privileged, really privileged. So yeah, come and tell us about your week. It's been a bit tough for you, hasn't it?
Speaker 1:has been tough but started great. We had the marketing foundation course on Tuesday. That was so good, that was fabulous.
Speaker 2:Tiring, but fabulous it was exhausting because you're standing there talking all day right, However, it was the first one it was, so.
Speaker 1:nothing will ever be as tiring as that.
Speaker 2:I absolutely loved it Did you really. Yeah, I did, and so did Yaz. I feel like we got so much from it. I came away with pages and pages of notes you were scribing. I'm an avid note taker. I was always given the advice by a previous boss don't ever take notes for you. Take notes for the person that's not there. Yeah, and I was like I just love it because, also, that's when it sinks in, so I might never refer to those notes again, but I know that it's in because I've written it down.
Speaker 1:The research there's a lot of songs, my sister, about this, this so much research about actually writing and the imprint that it has on your brain where it files into memory, because it's the association with the action.
Speaker 2:I just loved it. I really want a Remarkable. I really want a Remarkable. Do you want to sponsor the podcast? Remarkable do you?
Speaker 1:want to send us a couple, please, please. So you're scribing.
Speaker 2:You enjoyed it. I loved it. But also because I do a similar activity, not as in depth as what you do, and I do it on the management training, but I'm the one hosting. So Yaz is normally that like the one writing all the notes or the teamer. But for me to actually do it on my business, as the, the founder and knowing who my target audience, and going back to that me 11 years ago, like with all of those notes around my wall in my living room, like who is that person? Is it still the same person? It fucking is. Yeah, who is that same clientele like, oh, it was just brilliant. So a lot of the time when you're working on other businesses, I was actually doing it for my own. Yeah, because I was interested in theirs, but I was more interested in mine of course.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, you're there to work on you, and how often is it that you get the opportunity?
Speaker 2:so to actually have a day out, yeah, and also to take a day out when you're already drowning or swamped, and I literally had to tell everybody I'm out of office today, don't phone me, I'm not gonna be able to get back to you and I and normally I wouldn't do that I'd be like a bit stressy, going in and out of meetings, whatever. I literally said no, not today, my friends, not today. And to spend the time with Yaz, and we just kept on writing notes to each other like what about that? What about that? Oh, it was brilliant, it was absolutely brilliant. So now we're redoing all of our brand guidelines and marketing guidelines for future franchisees to give them an entire overview of although they will do my training with me, but this will be given to them along with their operations manual, which we've done, but not in this level of detail.
Speaker 1:It just gives them that pack and the confidence and something to riff off, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:which, but also now from that it's scaling, like this is escalating. And actually I had a conversation with yasmin this morning and she was like I just feel like something big's coming, yeah. And I said honestly, I can feel like, you know, when there's like the trembles before an earthquake or a volcano or something like there's a tremble going on, yeah, and I'm sitting here thinking, fuck, get your ducks in a row, girl.
Speaker 2:We need to get ready, we're literally in the rocket going yeah, that's what it feels like, and all these things are happening around me and it's it just, it's the weirdest feeling, because it is a bit like magic, isn't it? It's like a bit like fairy dust, but yeah. I think it's really fucking exciting it is and I'm ready for it now, when before, if you spoke to me a month ago, I'd have been like nah god, I can't do it.
Speaker 1:But I feel like I'm putting plans in place to make it happen oh my god, the like foundation work that's going on across the entire group at the minute.
Speaker 2:It's just going to get you set for such scalability and yeah, and we're thinking now, what do we need for when it happens? Yeah, when before it was very much, what do we need if it happens? What do we need if this happens? Like a conversation this morning with Yaz was about fulfillment. Yeah, like that was a massive deal for us and it was less than a year ago to move all of our stock to fulfillment, to free up my time. Yeah, well, now I've freed up my time, it's fucking worked. Yeah, because now I've been working on the business rather than packing boxes. Yeah, so that's gone to fulfillment. I think it's less than six months ago.
Speaker 1:It feels like I've never not had it Right. We started the poddy in November and you moved to fulfillment whilst we were doing the poddy. Yeah, true, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's Because it was such a big job at the time. But the company, they were brilliant, but they're not big enough now for us. How mad is that? Yeah, so we're having lots. It's been teething problems, but now it's got to the point where I can't pass it off as teething problems.
Speaker 1:We now speak about yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's such a nice company, but they're just not ready for my scale, so I'm going to have to move it. I think I'm gonna have to.
Speaker 1:You think you'll talk to that other fulfillment, the one that I probably the one that I fobbed off because he was new yeah but he's bigger he's ready for scale.
Speaker 2:He is. So I've now got to a point where I'm like I'm running out of stock, yeah, so I need to get it all sorted and I need yeah. I need to work on. I mean, I've got so many different products marketing products as well uniform Like there's so many different SKUs.
Speaker 1:Plus all of Moosekin, plus all of the Moosekin products.
Speaker 2:Of wax there's so much and I'm running low and I'm not. I've got enough for one more franchise, but not enough to then carry on and I've just had. You're gonna jump ship, yeah. So I need to have a company ready where I can get like 10 pallets of wax sent in and there's no problem. Yeah, and we just manage the website. But at the minute it's like I'm managing them and we had a massive order come through because Vanessa's taken over Hazelmere, so she's done like a thousand pound order and I'm ringing them going. Okay, she's ordered a lot of mousse skin. Can you make sure you wrap it correctly so there's no damaged bottles like?
Speaker 2:I shouldn't be doing that because we've had so many damage but we can't get hold of anybody and we they don't answer our questions, you know, about invoices and stuff. There's just no communication and I'm like I can't scale with this. No, no, no. So, yes, you're a nice company and I really want to work with you because I like you as people. But actually for me we talk about moose skin and I'm like, oh yeah, I'm not ready for that because I can't even sort out. It'll be back to me picking and packing if I scale moose skin, but also if I evolve my when I scale moose skin, yeah, also new lines if I add any new products. I've got a new uniform, so there's lots of stuff and I'm like I actually just want someone that can take that and I'll pay more for it yeah, because you know that you've got the security and the confidence and I know that it's given me the time, so it's worked.
Speaker 2:It's been a good trial, but I don't know how I'm gonna. It'll be me and martin and no in a van. No picking it all up no, why.
Speaker 1:Why can't you get the new fulfillment company to collect it from yeovil in somerset? Yeah, oh, I don't know well, it's worth talking to them about cost. It can be a negotiation factor, can't it? Oh yeah, never thought about that. You don't want to be doing it yourselves.
Speaker 2:No, I don't no see if they'll help you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, good, shout it makes more sense, doesn't it for? Them to do it, because otherwise you're going to be going driving down there, driving to the new place, doing it, which is wonderful, but it's a real test.
Speaker 2:It's a control thing as well, isn't it? Because it's all my stock and no one will love it or take care of it like I will yeah, but you need to give them the control, like, give them the chance.
Speaker 1:It's a good, it's a very, very good test.
Speaker 2:They're going to have the stock anyway, yeah, and because there's so many lines, I just I, you know, when I saw this fulfillment center, it was lovely to see it, but it is like one of those old bric-a-brac shops that's got fucking everything in that you can't see anything and she's like I know it looks chaotic but we know where everything is, but none of my stuff is all over the place. It's like wherever there's any holes of gold, you know there's a space, mind you, amazon.
Speaker 1:I've done a tour of amazon before the warehouse at the bottom of the bypass, yeah, and it's exactly like that, is it? Yeah, there's random shit next to random shit and these, these have got the robot. They had the robot. Yeah, as well, alongside human pickers. If that gives you any comfort, it was like a book next to fucking razor blades yeah, okay, yeah, it's like that.
Speaker 2:But I was like, why is my stuff not all together? And she's like, oh, because it's spacing and stuff and they're optimizing and yeah I think it's normal I believe my one experience it just felt so cluttered and I suppose for me I always had this vision of this big airy warehouse with these forklift trucks these metal like ikea yeah, that's what I imagined.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like I imagined, yeah, and they're all mine would be laid out and beautiful and like eat, and then put barcodes in front because I'd be like I want to go in and label it all and pick and pack.
Speaker 1:I'd love it, not when the shit's on fucking.
Speaker 2:But then I was like the box is where, and it's under there and there's stuff on top of it. How do you get to that? Like no. So yeah, I don't know, it's one of those jobs, it's another.
Speaker 1:It's one of those you kind of go, oh my.
Speaker 2:God, it's massive.
Speaker 1:It's not Well. Yes, it feels massive, but you are in growth scale phase, so this is now. It doesn't need to be you and martin that do everything. Oh, you can. You can pick up whatever you want to, but you if anything we're so used to doing everything ourselves. If this last six months has taught us anything, is that your time is 100.
Speaker 2:Best served strategizing most, most definitely, most definitely. But I suppose I've been in this part of business before when you're in that growth stage and it's a bit turbulent and I'm sometimes sitting there going I know, I joke, hold on to your pants like this is all going to kick off, but every time I think I'm just like 78% of the way through. I'm like, no, you're not Back to the start again. However, I'm really starting to see teams form Amazing. I'm really starting to see people grow quickly and develop. We've now got different roles. We've restructured a little bit in the salons, changed a couple of the management roles. I'm getting people ready to level up a couple of the management roles. I'm getting people ready to level up and we're getting people apply for jobs that I didn't actually know wanted it. You know, which is really exciting? Yeah. And then somebody I've got running one of the salons is completely blowing me away. She's so young and she's so good amazing. And I'm like you are exactly what I need, yeah. And then I've got Kirstie, who used to work for me. That's now coming in as a consultant one day a week and I've given her everything I want her to focus on and I've just said now, run with it. Yeah, and she's like I am all over this, I'm so excited to have these people.
Speaker 2:I always remember my brother saying don't forget, you need your A players. You've got to pay the money. Get your A players in, get people that can run, run this business. And when he first told me, I was really pissed off with him Because I was like fucking hell, you don't know anything about my business. How can I afford A players? Jesus Christ, I'm like promoting people within. I want to really develop my team and I want all of this. And he's like you'll understand, you need people that you can rely on. You can't keep teaching everybody. You can't keep holding everyone's hand. And then when I got Kirsten, I was like oh yeah, now I know what you mean.
Speaker 1:Well, you pay for the experience and the skills that don't exist in the team currently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the long game is which is always a bit sad, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It is, but it's part of it, isn't it? And the long game is it's not by osmosis, but being surrounded in the developing and growth of the company. Those people will see and get to feel what they like, what they don't like.
Speaker 2:And the good thing is, the people that you're bringing in to help, ones that are really inclusive and will show that, yeah, they will, and they will really embed that culture everything I need yeah into those businesses, so that I will be in a position where I can choose yeah, I can choose whether I continue with it or I can sell it as a franchise, but that would be my choice and I I was so close to being like I can't do this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. Like with the salons, like, oh, this is too much operationally, this is too much. And I kept on having people like really good advisors, like Tim, yeah, saying just get your ops right, just get the right people in, and actually you won't have any of this stress. And I said I, for five years, I've never had a holiday without being disturbed.
Speaker 2:I've never had time and I get an. I like a founder director, like ops manager, I get it.
Speaker 2:But last year was hell yeah operation oh my god, the summer yeah it was absolutely hell, and I don't think I had one day without dealing with a problem in the summer, and especially in my holiday, and I was just like I don't want this anymore. Actually, I choose my family, my sanity, all of this. I don't want this anymore. Actually, I choose my family, my sanity, all of this. I don't want to be setting my alarm to see if anyone's phoning sick like this is too much. But I just I felt like I was just wading through it, so it was like it was easier just go. I don't want this anymore.
Speaker 2:For the money, for the profit, it's not worth it, get rid. And then I was like, actually, actually, I am not a quitter, I refuse to give up and I will not sell a problem. I want to be in a position where I go. Quite actually, I don't need to do anything with it really, other than guide a few people, so now I can keep it, which is where you're getting to now, now that I've got the right people in. Most definitely, that's really exciting, isn't it? But also, when you bring in those superpowers, you see other people level up. Yeah, that's exciting for me. Yes, because I know that that's something I could do if I was there enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am raising the bar and that level of professionalism and standards and, like no guys, we're better than this. Yeah, we expect more. We are not average that level of professionalism and standards and, like no guys, we're we're better than this. Yeah, we expect more. We are not average, no, and we're delivering average and we've been delivering average and that's not okay.
Speaker 1:We need to sort this shit out. It's one of your USPs Like how amazing is that?
Speaker 2:And there's not many. I don't think there are many in the beauty industry that hold your standards in such high regard.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of people in the beauty industry that do, but there tend to be one-man bands. Yeah, I don't there's. The thing is there's not many chains. No, to compare to, there's not. There's some spa chains like pure spa. I know what she does is brilliant and I know that her standards are impeccable. But it's spa treatments, you know. I know a couple of chains. Sleeping beauty is another one in scotland. She has impeccable standards. I know kg salon. She's got her one salon. I know that that is. But there's not.
Speaker 1:There's not many chains in the beauty industry I love, I love how much of a trailblazer you are like, absolutely love it. Oh, thanks, babe. It's really admirable and inspirational for anyone who's considering business because you're going, are you all going over that way?
Speaker 2:well, I'm going this way. It's so fucking hard, though I know it's so hard going against the grain. Yeah, I know, because you, you question everything. You question absolutely everything. And what if? If no one else is doing this, why am I doing it? Why, why is that?
Speaker 1:why am I bucking the? Why?
Speaker 2:am I bucking? The trend is yeah, it I will. I question. We've talked about this before, but I do question it a lot. However, I feel over the last two, I am firmly standing in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I see it going forward, going that, with or without you, energy that we heard on that poddy Daniel.
Speaker 1:Preece, daniel, preece, we'll love you forever, absolute ledge.
Speaker 2:Just ordered his book actually Nice and bought into ScoreUp. Yes.
Speaker 1:So, honestly, this man, you're fully in.
Speaker 2:I am fully. Yeah, honestly, this man, I'm fully. I've ordered the book on the score, with or without you, with or without you, energy has really struck a chord with me and you, we talk about it a lot now, don't we?
Speaker 2:and I am completely embodying that, like I'm going and my brand is good and brilliant and cool and different and all of these amazing things, and I need to stop worrying about what other people think. Yeah, because I ain't gonna please everybody. No, and those people that would look at it and like those snobs, that would look at it and go, oh, it's just not classy enough, or?
Speaker 2:it doesn't look like John Lewis is thrown up in your salon, so I don't like it, or it's not like it doesn't belong in Harrods. That's okay, because I'm not trying to get into harrods. I'm trying to get onto every market, town high street.
Speaker 2:That doesn't warrant harrods stuck up johnny lou yeah, stuck up salon that is clinical and you know all of these things. So where? Before? I was like, oh you know, has my I was what I was questioning. Everything was nice, my brand like is it still okay? Is it still cool? Would Is it still cool? Would people still want to come? Do people still like this whole recycled, upcycled vibe? Of course they do. You know, I've got flowers in my window. Do people think it's gimmicky?
Speaker 2:I had a few people come into my space that questioned it, people that worked for me as well. There was one in particular that worked for me older therapist, lots of experience, had worked in lots of clinics, and she didn't like the pinnies. She thought they were too gimmicky. She didn't like the name, that moon name. She thought it was a bit childish, didn't like the fact that she had a moon name. She thought the salon was just a bit like not white enough, not clean enough as in, like clean as in aesthetically, yeah, and she tried to change it a little bit and I would, and she questioned a lot of it and there was a lot of things circulating back to me via my team that were like oh, she feels like this and she feels like that. So it's made me over analyze everything and it made my team feel a little bit like oh, is it a bit gimmicky?
Speaker 2:do we like our moon names? Do we like our penn? You know, it's okay to question things and it's okay to evolve and it's okay to grow and I'm down for that. But that person really came in and made me evaluate everything. It's no bad thing.
Speaker 1:Is she still with me?
Speaker 2:No, and I'm really pleased that she did yes, because it's made me evaluate. I'm gonna modern up a little bit. For sure it's 10 years old. I'm not changing the logo, but I'm gonna put more of like the moose skin stripes and stuff and that color branding and actually I'm really excited about this. I found a company to make your own wallpaper so I've downloaded, like the image of the moose skin stripes and the winchester salon's gonna hopefully amazing if it falls within budget because she's got quite a high spend on fit-out. If it falls in budget, she's going to put the Moosekin Stripe wallpaper in. It's beautiful. How fucking cool is that? So it made me question a lot of things and I was like no, actually, because then combine that with our avatar work.
Speaker 2:I know who my person is for franchise. I know who my clients are and they don't think it's gimmicky. And if they do, then they're not for us and that's okay. Yeah, with or without you. Yeah, because we care about service, we care about standards, we care about all of these things consistency, incredible products, all this stuff. They're the people. They're going to love it. They love that it's recycled and upcycled, they love that it's different, they love that they can kick their shoes off, grab a cuppa, sit down and have a chat or read a book.
Speaker 1:Well, there is a lot to be said for every single one of your franchisees. Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but every single one of them has been a client of Mui's.
Speaker 2:No, so Gigi worked for me, yeah, and Kriya had never heard of Mui's and found me on Google.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, but the majority.
Speaker 2:But she was looking for a beauty franchise specifically. Right, yeah, she was specifically looking for beauty and couldn't find what she was looking for. Came across Mui's she came in for a treatment. She was like, oh, I love it Because came across movies. She came in for a treatment. She was like, oh, I love it because she's she used to go to non-standard salons. She always had beautiful. Now she's very well kept, but you know she's she's got incredible taste in clothes. She loves designer stuff. Yeah, she's got really beautiful, classy taste. So I'm surprised she used to go to non-standard salons, but it's because she couldn't find the type of salon she wanted to go to. But she is our perfect client. How many other?
Speaker 1:people are out there they're in the same boat that are going.
Speaker 2:I can't I mean, I'm one in bedford like yeah you are our avatar, so is yaz, but there's not where?
Speaker 2:where can you go? There's salons there, but they're not my kind of salons. There's so many People would look at the beauty industry and think that it's absolutely saturated, but there's not enough focusing on the vibe and energy of a business. I think there's some individuals, but, like I said, no chains. There's no brand recognition. Yes, you would find somewhere, find a therapist, find a few people that you like, but there's nowhere that you go. I know that brand, I know who they are, I know what they stand for.
Speaker 1:Like for hair, Tony and Guy, for example?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you kind of know what you're getting with Tony and Guy. I would choose Headmasters over Tony and. Guy but Headmasters is a chain franchise anyway. But that doesn but Headmasters is a chain franchise anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but Headmasters isn't. That doesn't exist in beauty, not nationwide. No, that I know of anyway.
Speaker 2:No, there isn't anything. Dino are doing the same, massage Company are doing the same.
Speaker 1:But movies is going to be the first one, no, but there's nothing doing nails and waxing. That's the first one. That's this level, yeah, so I I think we only got to Tuesday. Oh God, yeah, wednesday we had some brainstorming time here, didn't we? That was cool. Yeah, we talked all about funnels, funnels.
Speaker 2:Fun funnels. Fun funnels, franchise fun. That was really good because I didn't have a fucking clue about any of it. I won't say I still don't, because I do. Now I have a much better idea and I have a plan.
Speaker 1:But again, it's another meaty project, but once it's done it'll be incredible. That's one and done, vibes, and then it's refining.
Speaker 2:Isn't it precisely so that, along with lead generation, I've put together my first lead generation quiz with Daniel Priest's stuff on what type of entrepreneur are you? Haven't been out there yet, but yeah, so are you like? I've done five different headings of. Are you the budding entrepreneur? Are you the perfect franchisee? Are you, no, the I can't remember what I called it and then the actual, like the best employee ever, because not everybody. People think the side hustler. I've got in there as well, like you, don't. There's so so many different types and and actually weedle it out, you might not be an entrepreneur in the first place. You might be a really good employee and just stick with a really good career because you don't want the stress.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I've put, like the take over the world type person, oh yeah, yeah. And then I've created this quiz that works out who you are. It's exciting, isn't it? It's exciting, isn't it? And then that'll be my lead generation into my funnel once it's done.
Speaker 1:Who the fuck am? I love it. I absolutely love it, yeah that's really exciting.
Speaker 2:So there's lots of things going on, but yeah, we've only got till tuesday. Then we went out on saturday yeah, before that my cat died, mr gray.
Speaker 1:Mr gray had to be put to sleep.
Speaker 2:Mr Gray was lovely he was lovely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he had masked a very, very horrific illness. He was really poorly, was he? Yeah, really poorly. So I got off a call on Thursday afternoon. Luckily Matt was at home and he was just laying in a really funny position in the conservatory which he loves, or loved because it's so sunny and so warm. But he was breathing out of his mouth, which they don't tend to do, and I said to matt I was like the cat's dying. He said don't be so fucking ridiculous. I was like no, no, I need you to come in here and look at him. And he did and we spoke to the vet and the vet said come down straight away. They put him on oxygen and then they tested his blood and he was very, very ill. So we had to put him to sleep on thursday night.
Speaker 1:This is all on the backdrop of wilson, our german shepherd, being quite poorly as well because his leggies have gone, like most shepherds do. But both animals. So I had mr gray when I got him in the june and met matt in the august and then we got wilson in april. So they like signify a lot of our relationship. So that was thursday. I was a bit shit. I told eddie on friday morning and I tell you now, him and Hope are keeping us sane, are they? Yeah? So I sat him down and I said, eddie, I'd read about how to play it, because this is the first death that we've had in the family what do you say?
Speaker 2:so I sat down and said Eddie, mr Grey is dead yeah, you have to be really honest and blunt none of this rubbish very literal he's gone, he's, he is dead.
Speaker 1:Is he not at the vets? Because he knew we were taking him to the vets. I said he's not at the dead, at the vets, he's dead. Everything that, everything that is living, dies. And I talked about trees. I thought this is, I mean, his world's going to be fucking rocked. He's going to cry. And he looked at me and he went I need a wee.
Speaker 2:I was like all right mate, let's go to the toilet.
Speaker 1:And I'm so grateful for him and Hope because they're keeping us sane. That was Thursday and Friday, and then we went out on Saturday. Yeah, that was nice, it was lovely, wasn't it? Yes, we went out with the International Women's Day lot, didn't we? Yeah, I drank too much rosé. I don't remember much the conversation from Embankment onwards. Yeah, I do I think. Mind you, I'm not a memory loss kind of person.
Speaker 2:I am now, as I've got older, I really struggle with it and I always worry the next day like, oh God, you know, truth serum, did I say anything? I shouldn't have said Okay, now, I normally do. I love you, but I'm glad we didn't actually speak too much, and you know, you think what did we talk about for like six hours? What did we talk about? Was it just so much waffle that we just like can't remember because it I don't know anyway.
Speaker 1:I think I had a great time. Yeah, I definitely had a good time. And I woke up with a bit of a sore head on Sunday, immediately hit with Matt, very upset, hugging the dog downstairs, saying, because Wilson's very much Matt's dog, I think it's time. So then we called the vets and had the dog put to sleep on Sunday. Fucking horrific, yeah, 72 hours lost all of our animals, and this is I should have given a trigger warning, shouldn't I?
Speaker 1:If anyone's experienced pet loss, but my way of dealing with it is very, very dark humour. It's the only way that I can get through. So, with Mr Grey, whilst we, we were really, really upset at the time and still afterwards, it was just Matt and I that said goodbye to him they fucking left us in there for 15 minutes. 15 minutes of tears and goodbyes, that's a really fucking long time. So we but I was going to Matt like I I am dry, I don't think I've got any tears left left you where in the fucking vets saying goodbye before they administered, before they euphonized him. Oh, so with wilson, we'd spent the morning with him. Matt, he couldn't walk. In the end he was carrying him everywhere, so he carried him outside and it was less, less dark with wilson, but fucking hell, it's just harrowing really, isn't it? Saying goodbye to a family pet?
Speaker 1:And then when we were in the room they had to, because he's a big boy they had to take him out on a stretcher to go and put the cannula in, brought him back in and the vet was like I've brought you some chocolate. And I was like, oh, thanks. She was like, oh, it's for wil, some chocolate. And I was like, oh, thanks. She was like, oh, it's for Wilson. I was like, oh okay. She said because he's passing away and we're saying goodbye to him, he can have it, his first taste of chocolate. So she brought him two bits of chocolate. Oh Weird, huh, I think that's a bit weird. Weirdly, matt had said it to me at home. He said should we give him chocolate now because he's never had it? I was like, no, we don't know what it's going to do to him. And then the vet did that.
Speaker 2:So he had a little square of dairy milk and a Reese's cup before I mean it's sweet, yeah, nice, but odd. There must be a thing that they do, though it must be something, it must be just like a little nice gesture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he was licking my hand when his heart stopped which meant that he died like this. No one can see me, but he died with his tongue out. Do you mind me laughing at that? Absolutely not. I told you, my way to get through this is to cry and laugh.
Speaker 2:Do you know? I just had this image, not of the dog, but like the whole chocolate thing. Yeah, I'm going to circulate back to that minute. Yeah, because imagine if you were allergic to peanuts and then on your deathbed they were like who? Doesn't eat peanuts. Now I know.
Speaker 1:Would you want them? I don't know.
Speaker 2:He enjoyed it though.
Speaker 1:And he was put down so quickly after that that no one will ever know. He seemed happy, which actually makes it worse Like because he was so with it, like still eating, still drinking, but he just couldn't use his legs. Yeah, it was a really tough decision.
Speaker 1:So he died with his tongue sticking out and he also died with his eyes open, which is normal, but both Matt and I were going going now go to sleep and like putting our hands over his face and using our fingers to shut his eyes and he just kept going, opening his eyes back up again like a fucking doll. It was awful. We must have tried about three times we're both like quietly going with his body to shut his eyes. It just wasn't working. And then in the end I just went we need to leave and and he was like yes, we do. Oh God, have you ever put a pet?
Speaker 2:down. No, I remember we had a dog and a cat called Toby and Winston. They were amazing pets and as a kid, when you were talking about Eddie as a kid, I remember Dad telling us. I remember Dad being devastated. They were his like, he loved these animals and I remember us very much like, oh, that's really sad. And I remember dad burying them in the garden. Yeah, and we were like I don't think he buried toby, I'm not sure if it was ashes because he was a golden retriever. I remember the cat being buried in the garden well, golden retrievers, like a substantially different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think that would have been.
Speaker 2:I don't think there was enough like land yeah so yeah, I remember dad doing like a bit of a funeral for them and we were like, oh, that's really sad. Yeah, we had a little cry, then we went off.
Speaker 1:I know it's so weird it's so transactional and we, when matt was with wilson, when we were with him on the sunday, we'd made the decision, we'd spoken to the vet and we were booked in at 11 o'clock and we're on the grass. It was beautiful sunny day and we're just saying goodbye to him like we're just surrounding ourselves with him but hope's, like pottering around and Eddie's playing in the conservatory. And I went in and said Eddie, we're gonna be going soon. You need to say goodbye to Wilson because he's not coming home. And he went. I said do you want to say goodbye? And he went yeah, I was like okay, and then he just opened the door to the get to the garden and went bye, wills. Me and Matt were like okay, right, that's it. It's just their brains are fascinating, I think.
Speaker 1:And then when we put him down in the vets, you get all these questions about do you want to take away the body? Do you want to bury them? The vet started reading to us. He said I need to read this disclaimer and I said I'm just going to stop you there. We had our cat put to sleep on Thursday and he went, mr Gray, and I was like yeah, and he said I'm so sorry. I said it's fine, but don't feel like you need to read this, because we've already had it 72 hours ago and he didn't read it, which was fine. And you can go for a communal cremation or you can go for an individual cremation, which is a lot more expensive Communal cremation what?
Speaker 2:they put all the animals together and get a share of the ashes. No, you don't get the ashes back. Oh right, I was going to say like, divvy it up. No, mix it all in. Divvy it up. Yeah, have a go. No that looks about Mr Grey's size One and a half cups.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's not like that. I don't think it is. It's not experience. So with mr gray, we both opted at the time for communal cremation. And then when we got home we knew it wasn't going to be long for wilson and he really went downhill.
Speaker 1:After gray had passed away, matt was saying I really want an individual cremation for wilson. I was like you fucking arse, you can't do that. The cat goes communal, yeah, fuck him. And fucking the dog gets this like that's on the fucking top on the shelf at home. I said it's not fair. Also, the cost disparity is fucking huge and it's not covered by insurance because it's your choice. So there's that horrible like well, I want to do what's right, but I can't afford to do what's right at the same time. It's just a horrible weird, which I guess must be what, when you don't have national health service, that is such an element and a weight on the decision for treatment right, which is I'm grateful for it anyway, we're in the room.
Speaker 1:And then we decided on communal cremation. And then we got home and matt was like I think we fucked up and spoke to our brother-in-law who said you can take him off the vets and get it done at Bedford Creme. So then Matt had this awful this is obviously bank holiday awful like 24 hours of. Have they taken his body? I really want to speak to the Creme about it and see if they can do Wilson and then we get his ashes back. So on Monday morning he spoke to the vets, went through to the emergency line, as I said I hope you don't mind, but is wilson still with you so he's was cremated up at the creme and we'll be getting him back soon so you haven't got mr gray, but you've got wilson yeah, and the vet actually said and mr gray Matt was like I think it's too late, and she said, yes, it is because he'd already been taken, which is sad.
Speaker 1:Anyway, pet death not ideal Wowzers.
Speaker 2:But we're just trying to be. Ashes are a funny old thing, aren't they?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'll tell you when they arrive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's like I don't know, Everyone believes something different, but once they're gone, they're gone. I've got a really funny thing with death because I've experienced so much of it. Yeah, I'm a bit cold when it comes to it. I'm a bit like, yeah, that's just life, that's just what happens. But then did I tell you about my dad, Like what we'd done with my dad's actually, oh my God, this was so funny. So my dad, he basically turned around to us when we were younger and he said I don't give a flying fuck about what happens to me. Don't stick me on a shelf Like I have no interest in being anywhere Once I'm gone, I'm gone. And I remember his partner at the time said you need to put some money aside for a funeral. And he went well, I don't give a shit, I'll be dead. That was his exact words. They can pay for it, they can sort it out. And she was like that's really selfish. She went I don't give a fuck.
Speaker 1:I'll be dead.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so I was like, well, if you don't give a fuck, why should we? So we had to sell all of his stuff to pay for his funeral, which was annoying, but also there was a lot of humour and fun in it. And then when we had his ashes, I said to Kaz well, I don't want to stick him on a shelf. And Kaz went I don't want him on a shelf.
Speaker 2:You have memories. I don't want to look at something and it reminds me to be sad. That's how I feel about death. I never remember days Like I never remember days the month, like I never remember birthdays, death days, wedding. I never remember stuff like that and I think it's just my way of dealing with it. I'm sure there's some psychological stuff there, but I'm like I don't need to remember the day that my mum died so that I feel sad every year Like I know she's dead.
Speaker 2:I don't know if kaz was pregnant, but my willow was like one and a half maybe, and we said, well, he's from amersham way, buckinghamshire, so let's just go around there and see what we can find. So me and kaz were like well, we went. We have like a family get together, and kaz went well, why don't we just go over, like before we go to the families, and we'll just go and have a little drive around see if we can find any nice churches? And I was like, okay, cool, so we went to. I was like, well, henley's nearby I don't actually remember the church that we found, but we literally googled church with river and we found this church. It was like 10 minutes away. I was like that looks cool, so we went there really well thought out.
Speaker 2:Really sorry and we did find this beautiful church on the river. It was absolutely beautiful. There was nobody there and we just went for a little walk with a buggy ashes under the buggy, like let's have a little look. And I said to Kaz like we should just put him in the river. That'd be really nice. But I've never felt ashes before, so I just thought it'd be like in the movies, you know, it just flies away or like it just floats, is it not like that? It's like a fucking cement, what it's like cement ashes? No, anyway.
Speaker 2:So I had the box with the carrier bag, like the plastic bag that the ashes come in and put in a box, right, so I had them. Kaz was holding willow. Oh my god, this is so weird, this is hilarious. Right, I will. And this is so my dad as well. So I was like I'll sprinkle it in the in the river, thinking it would just sprinkle. It fell out of the bag like a lead fucking weight.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden there was this gray mass in the river and I was like kaz, I've dumped dad in the river. This cloud of gray just filled the water and I was like fuck, kaz, I've dumped Dad in the river. Look at him, go, look at him. And this cloud of grey just filled the water and I was like fuck, fuck, what is this? And then Kaz was like, save a bit, I'll sprinkle him on the tree.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, it was like something out of a sketch. So she sprinkled a little bit on the tree and I was like Kaz, we've actually dumped Dad in the river. Like what has? We've actually dumped dad in the river. Like what is it? What has happened? This is not the romantic thing. We were crying, laughing at the same time. I'd had a baby recently. I'd pissed myself, like we took a picture of like here we are, don't actually remember where it is, so I never actually thought about looking at the picture to see if it has the location still. But I think my sister went and found it. I think she said she managed to find the church.
Speaker 2:But oh my god we don't remember where it is. Dad's been dumped in a river. We have this memory, but it is just surrounded by laughter, like we just. We got to my nan's and that was like what have you been up to? We went, well, we found a church in the river, we dug dad's dad's ashes, sprinkled a little bit in a tree, pissed myself, laughed loads, and now it's like sounds like the perfect day.
Speaker 2:It's a perfect send-off yeah, it was like for us and for our family and it was very, very apt. I can imagine if there are such things as spirits and if he would have seen us of any any way, he would have absolutely been pissed himself yeah, yeah, really embodied that's my girls, that's, that's exactly what I wanted. Dump me in the river. Don't give a shit. I didn't care, did he? Yeah, so it made me laugh when you're talking about the ashes. But yeah, they're like cement, do you know?
Speaker 1:weirdly I feel comfort that wilson is coming home, do you? Yeah, it's very odd, but I felt as soon as they both slipped away I didn't want to be near their bodies, their empty bodies, and I feel the same about human death, like I've never been one to want to go and see a body, because mum's Irish and comes from a. Catholic family. When people in the family have passed, they have the body in the house.
Speaker 2:Oh God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have passed. They have the body in the house. Oh god, yeah, it was with. Uncle john is the last one. And all of our family were like do you want to go in and see him? And my sister and I are going fuck no no, thank you no, it's a vessel lovely. Yeah, I don't know if I'll feel differently about being cremated and dumped in the sea.
Speaker 2:Actually, I don't want to be cremated.
Speaker 1:I want the pressure wash water blast. Oh yeah, you said that.
Speaker 2:That.
Speaker 1:Katie Holmes was talking about. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:Because I don't like fire.
Speaker 2:Oh God, she is the best celebrant. Yes, she's an amazing yeah, amazing celebrant.
Speaker 1:Can we book her for our funeral?
Speaker 2:Everybody has. She's like I love that. I don't want any and any of you die in. But yes, of course I would do it with absolute pleasure. But I've seen her deliver funerals have you? Yeah, because husbands, her mums did she do them. She wasn't a celibate. I was going to say so she pretty much done them, but the way that she can articulate herself in such a sad situation, I mean she had at both funerals.
Speaker 2:She had people laughing and crying at the same time she has such a skill yeah, yes, she's so talented like this is the perfect thing for her, but also a perfect career for her, perfect business for her. But also you can see why she's so popular because she has this way of making death comfortable, yeah, and making it all okay to feel. Whatever you're feeling, she's just like, yeah, that is her superpower and I'm so proud of her for following her heart with that.
Speaker 1:So what is. Let's give Katie's business a shout out. Katie Holmes Celebrancy Give her a follow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, give her a follow, but also have a look at her website. It's difficult. It's not something you know of, is it? It's not like she has this vicar in her family who has done her wedding, her mum's wedding, her mum's funeral, her, her stepdad's funeral. He he done gary her husband's funeral.
Speaker 2:Like this vicar, has traveled all over the country to follow this family in every happy or sad situation wow and I think she has taken that and it's like I want to deliver the same service that I've experienced from this one, vicar and I want to deliver this for other families yeah, she's special she really is?
Speaker 1:yeah, she really is, but only funerals, though, guys yeah, yeah, she doesn't do happiness.
Speaker 2:That's what she says.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but her energy just reaches everyone. She's such an incredible soul?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she is. She's a beautiful human and, yeah, if you you know that's the sort of person you'd want talking at your 100% funeral, wouldn't?
Speaker 1:it yeah, yeah 100%.
Speaker 2:Or celebrating your life. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, totally agree. How do we move on from death? You got a gift, didn't you? Today I got a bullshit button. It's good, isn't it? Buzzer, yeah, bullshit, buzzer. Yes, I absolutely love it. Thank you, you are welcome. I might call myself out on it as well, you know, yeah, yeah I'm not ready, but it's really loud. So when I'm on the phone and I'm listening to people speak I can't really like.
Speaker 1:But I can mute yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, it's a lot of. I might put the phone down and then do the bullshit.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah. It's too risky, isn't it, to try and mute yeah it is.
Speaker 2:It's really cool and I've always envisioned us having an office space of some sort. Have you For Moomins? Yeah, yeah, I have. I've always had this vision of it's. Funny. Actually, I've always had a vision of a big house because, me and Martin, it's our dream to build our own home.
Speaker 1:That is our goal ultimate goal.
Speaker 2:But I've always had a vision of this home but then some office with a warehouse underneath, yep, but office upstairs but like really open Huh, and a bat cave. Oh my God, that'd be cool, wouldn't it? But yeah, like a big warehouse but it's stable, or something Kind of yeah, downstairs, but then the office is upstairs Recording studio, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But really open, really cool homely. So you know, my house is next door type thing.
Speaker 1:I love it. Yeah, so I'll take my bullshit buzzer then, yeah, and hopefully I can come and hot desk from your office, yeah, every now and then I'd love that.
Speaker 2:I'd love to have like a co-working space, because I really want us. I've talked about this. I really want a soho house membership, but I don't know if I'd use it that much because I don't go into london at all. But I like the idea of like some sort of co-working space.
Speaker 1:It's really cool yeah, nice food nice hotel rooms, that sort of stuff yeah, I really want to build one, not today not today, my friend. We've got a lot to do we have got a lot to do, so what else have we been talking about?
Speaker 2:tv we have and this really excites me, and it will excite any founder of any business, no matter how big or small, because I would never, I've never anticipated that I would ever get movies on tv advertising. I never thought it'd be possible like genuinely so upset because you just think I, you know, when I'm at that business level, when I've got a million pound marketing budget, then maybe I'll consider it. That's actually what goes through my head and I would imagine that would go through the heads of many small business owners.
Speaker 2:So when I had Sky reach out to me because they're doing a lot of work within the franchise space and it's a connection of Tim's I was like I'll have a chat with him. He put this proposal together and I was like that's fucking amazing. Well, I could get on TV advert for three grand to cover three areas of my salons. Are you kidding me? Yeah, and he was like no, you're going to have to spend some money on production videos, all of this. I was like this is a no brainer and it's so targeted, which is why it can be done.
Speaker 2:But then, obviously, talking to you and all your massive background of media, I was like telling you, all excited, and you went. I'm actually going to tell everybody what your analogy was. Did you like it? I liked it. I mean I'm going to use it. I've also used it to explain to Yaz exactly where you're coming from. So Nicole said to me imagine you've got an entire wall of different colour nail varnishes, but you pick red because that's all you know, and you pick red because you always pick red, but that's what you know, that's what you're comfortable with, but there's a plethora of colours that you're missing out on. Yeah, just explore, try something different.
Speaker 1:Well, I just I was like okay, but I just want you to like see how accessible media is. A sky ad smart. Have done an impeccable job of mate, of turning your head to use callum's phrase yes, and making you go. Huh, I could actually. I could actually create a 30 second advert for movies and put it on the telly that is, I could actually be on my brand, could actually be on tv.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the weight of that. Like screw social media. I'm sorry, but screw that. Yeah, the weight of that. And then I was like what could I get on this morning? Just joking and you went, well, potentially I was like shut yeah because you have.
Speaker 1:So I didn't. I was really, really, when you said about Sky AdSmart, every cell in my body was like, oh my God, let me help you. Let me help you please. But you have to figure out this thing on your own, like, this is your brand and you need to touch it, feel it and experience it. But so, to go back a step, I then spoke to Callum yesterday, who heads up ITV Adventures, which is all about incubating brands and getting them to spend on TV for the first time.
Speaker 1:And they enable you to do that with two schemes one being Ignite, which is assisting by matching your budget with their value, so you would spend x amount and they would double it in value and then help you to scale, but also help you with production and ensure that it's effective.
Speaker 1:So they, once they've signed an NDA, they'll plug into your google analytics using ITV's research team, so you can attribute your activity with what is happening on your website. So it benefits them as well, because they want to be able to make this a case study. Yeah, so massive. That's the ignite side. And then they've got a media for equity side, which is for brands that really want to spend on television but don't have the budgets to unlock that. So they will get itv to invest and take equity in the business and do it that way. Oh, wow, yeah, that's big, massive. So it's about diversifying itv's commercial revenue streams, incubating brands to get them onto tv and show them how accessible it truly is and how much mass reach it can provide, because everyone is saying tv's dead. No one watches it in the same way.
Speaker 1:You blah, blah, blah, exactly what I said to you, but itv still is the largest broadcaster. It's the only place where you can generate mass reach on such a large scale out of the entire media landscape will blow online socials out of the fucking water. It's next level reach. So if you are looking to build a brand and you want to work with a partner but you don't have, so there's. You know, last week, last time we recorded, we talked about media agencies I think, and how they work.
Speaker 1:So if you, if you've spent on television before, you would probably direct a media agency. If you're spending up to a million pounds and above, yeah, because they are best placed to buy that, that media for you. When you are new to tv or new to media, where do you go? How do you know? This is what I was talking to callum about yesterday. I was like itv adventures needs to do more brand exposure for themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with small businesses. I'd never have heard of it before, never known.
Speaker 1:But it's just. They are there because they want to support and show how accessible it is.
Speaker 2:Why are they not tapping into that?
Speaker 1:NatWest Accelerator. Oh, I don't know, I don't know, but Callum has done a podcast recently which really explains where itv adventures sits in the marketplace and why it's important and every single one of the media owners out there, whether it be radio, whether it be television, press out of home, have this support because they know that it's how you grow brands which benefits them in the long run, because the more you grow because of them, the more you're going to spend on advertising exactly yeah, and the more you'll be affiliated with the ones that give you that first step up.
Speaker 1:So it's a huge opportunity.
Speaker 2:But when you talk to smes, not anyone fucking knows about it but also no one knows about it, but they will all feel the same. You need masses of budget expensive. I would have been embarrassed to go to itv with three grand and say what can you do for me? I thought I would have been laughed out Like you're not even allowed in for a meeting if you haven't got a million pounds.
Speaker 1:No, and the thing is, this is where you don't need a media agency on your side, you need Nicole Billum. What you need is someone to go. Hey, look at this, look at all this.
Speaker 2:But you approach them direct because you've got a better chance of getting a better deal if you go client direct. But I think there's a lot of prep though. For businesses like the stuff that we've talked about oh, it's huge, yeah, and the like, the thought process of a company like me you're going to be dealing directly with founders or you know founders are going to be sitting there. Like me, I've written notes like what, how do you create an advert? What do you even put in it? What's the messaging? Yeah, because at that sort of level, you're going to be doing a lot of it yourself, a lot of the framework yourself, yeah, and I'm grateful that I have you to do that with. But for any other company that doesn't have Nicole Billum in their back pocket, where they wouldn't know where to start with all of that, no, they don't, and I can only speak.
Speaker 1:I know callum because we work together and it's incredible that he's empathetic and he understands and he really wants to deliver great work. But not every salesperson, commercial person, is that way inclined sky ad smart because it's been around for a lot longer, has got a massive team behind it and each one of those individuals has been trained differently, so I don't know whether they're out for the best interest and same goes for other other media owners. If they're out for the best interest of the of the brands that they're working with, mass sales, it's small, yeah. So the things that we need to think about are are you ready for scale? Yeah, like, if you're, if you're going to put an ad out there, you're going to get a shit ton more eyeball, eyeballs on it yeah, it's your website.
Speaker 2:Like these are all the things you went through with me like is your website strong enough. I was like I haven't got a bloody clue what's your serve capacity?
Speaker 1:yeah, but also who's your avatar, because this then becomes your target audience, which then becomes your demo, your demograph for what you buy your media by and what you measure it against because when you think of those companies that were at our marketing training last week, yeah, yeah there was a lady that owned the farm. Yeah, yeah, what farm is it called mk patch mk?
Speaker 2:sorry mk yeah, I loved what she was doing, but she would be the perfect person to be able to advertise, so you're going to have a chat with her about it?
Speaker 1:I'm seeing her today? Yeah, but there are so many. And the thing is, if you look at itv, for example, and you stack that up against sky ad smart. Yes, they can hyper target. Yes, they can geo target, but it depends what your objectives are. It's the same for any marketing activity. If you're spending organic on, if you're spending on organic social media, are you getting the roi that that requires? Why are you doing it? Return on investment?
Speaker 1:sorry yes, yeah. So have you got the foundation for scale? If you're looking to invest on media, do you truly know what the right demograph is for you? So we refine that based on what sky have sent, haven't we? Yesterday yeah, so are we happy to share that? Yeah, so sky has suggested 18 plus women as a target.
Speaker 1:They'd also put medium to high affluency yeah, yeah, which means abc1 as a as an audience. Yeah, so, because if you think tv is all about supply and demand, that's how the costings are worked out. So if that audience that you're going for there's not a lot of people in the uk that fit into that criteria, that's going to make it more expensive. So abc ones as a upmarket audience is actually quite expensive because comparatively versus all of the adults in the UK there's not that many of them. Yeah, whereas I'm worried, I'm going into too much detail.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. Whereas if you bought all women, for example, without a skew on social class, it would be cheaper.
Speaker 2:Would, it?
Speaker 1:Yes, because it's a bigger pool of people.
Speaker 2:Oh, it'd be cheaper per what's it called Cost per meal or cost per thousand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, cost per 1,000 views. So I think it's really fucking exciting. I think MUI's, I think it's going to be amazing. I think it's wonderful that we've got Callum's support. But also when callum and I were talking yesterday, we were saying I can see movies on this morning. I was like, oh no, on this morning on the sofa talking about nail training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, I can, and the more I sit with it, the more I can feel it good. Yeah, because it is special. It is something very unique. It's just it's going back to that trailblazing and fear, feeling the fear and doing it anyway. But it's that fear of there's the beauty industry, especially the nail side of it, can be quite toxic. There's a lot of everybody knows better, there's a lot of like experts, there's a lot of nonsense as well, and I actually want to be the voice of reason when it comes to nails and not be aligned with a brand. So therefore, I'm selling something, but I want to really teach people how to take care of nails. But because of the products we're using, I don't think we've gone into this this much. Have we with the nail training? Have we talked about it?
Speaker 1:I think we did talk about it off the back of the complaint. Yeah, we did, because you said what you're doing, why you've changed it, but I don't think that we have spoken since you created the training.
Speaker 2:Right. So I've created an online training program Teach nail therapists and nail professionals how to deal with things like onycholysis when your nail plate lifts and you get the white underneath and it detaches from the nail bed and greenies, which is is really common, especially with extensions and overlays.
Speaker 2:It's not a fungus. Everyone thinks it's fungus and it's not. It's a bacteria that sits in between a nail layer, nail plate and an artificial nail layer and it causes this greeny effect, which would then lead to potential allergies or potential onycholysis. There's there's lots of different things, but they are actually seen in the beauty industry a lot, but no one talks about it. And then there's this void in the middle where the insurance companies want to avoid, don't want anything to do with it, because then they would have to pay out if people are suing. So insurance companies basically go oh well, follow manufacturer's guidelines. So then you speak to the manufacturer and they say you have to use our lamps with our products, you have to use everything and keep a record of all of your batch numbers. Now I'm sorry if someone's got a green your nails, it could have been from three months ago. We, we done, done. We calculated we'd done 24,000 nail treatments last year in Muirs. In one year 24,000.
Speaker 2:That's amazing yeah, but it's not trackable on this level.
Speaker 2:How can I track a nail polish? Like if I'm a one-man band, I'm probably using the same bottle, you know. But we go through hundreds of these bottles. There is no way I'd be able to track a batch number. And if someone ever told me I need to put that in my process like there was a thing that came out saying you need to patch test waxing and I was like, absolutely not, there is not a chance in hell. I'm going to patch test waxing because an insurance company is refusing to pay based on patch testing, operate my business. Tell me how I'm going to incorporate a patch test of wax not happening. Yeah, there's not enough allergies to warrant it. Like lash tinting has to. Yeah, like any of those treatments most definitely have to. But you cannot patch test a wax. It's not on the skin long enough, yeah, and the allergy risk is so minimal it's not worth it for us as an operation. But it's the same with nails. So then you go to the manufacturer and they they basically avoid having any accountability or responsibility unless you've used all their system, and then they might deal with the case for you, but that it's still avoidant, right. And then you've got beauty therapists now professionals. When they're not. They're not teaching this at college, they're not learning anything about the complications or the possible outcomes or whatever. They're not even learning anything.
Speaker 2:And I was like, well, where do we go? Where do we go? And there's a, there's an online portal that's got a lot of stuff. It's free, but it's. It's created by nail experts, but it's very scientific, it's very technical, it's very like look at the molecule structure of an acrylate and all of this and I'm like that's not what I need. What I need.
Speaker 2:In my salons I've got like 50 60 therapists. What I need is for them to know what could go wrong, how to deal with it, how to communicate with that client to stop them from panicking and how to be confident in that. Yeah, there is nowhere to go for that. Yeah, so the person that struggles and misses out in all of this is the client and the therapist, right? So when all these people avoiding the blame, the people that are dealing with it, are the therapist and the client. So the clients are freaking out and the therapists are freaking out because they don't want to do it. So the therapist just bury their head and panic if this rears its ugly head and the clients are then going. Well, you don't know where do I go. They want to blame somebody, so they're blaming the nail tech. They go to the doctors. The doctors blame the nail tech and say it's all down to hygiene, but the doctors don't know either. Yeah, and I'm like this is a fucking shit show.
Speaker 1:So what's the solution, amy lewis I created a training program.
Speaker 2:Originally I just done it for my own businesses because it's like you know, stay in your lane. I was like I need to. Just I want I'm not fussed about anybody else, it's plate safe. I want it for my salons. I want my team to feel really comfortable.
Speaker 2:If someone's getting on, why could it be? It will be a process of elimination. It will be look at your medication. Has anything changed? Because that can cause it. It could be the start of an allergy. You know, have you got any sensitivity? And you can get an allergy two years after using a product. But it's having the confidence to tell that person that this is what's happening. That client you're getting on ecolysis. This could be the start of an allergy. Let's go through your consultations. Have you had a change in medication? Have you? You know all of this. Everything is a process of elimination. It's not a blame. There is something that's happening here and this is not okay. It could be a product, it could be medication, it could be your health, it could be a multitude of things. Let's work through it together. So I created a training programme for my team and actually I think I'm sat on something really special.
Speaker 1:And what are we doing with?
Speaker 2:it At the minute, nothing, nothing yet, nothing yet. But I really want to get it out into the beauty world. I really want to get it out there, into the hands of people that need it, those people that are sat working for themselves, not part of the teams, other businesses that are dealing with these complaints, because the products we're using are more efficient than they've ever been, but they're also stronger than they've ever been. Yes, and there's not enough understanding, like there's not enough respect for the product, but also people are leaving it on their nails for up to four weeks and they think that's okay, but then that causes so many problems because, yes, they look good, but underneath they, their, their green is a coming.
Speaker 1:You know yeah, where's the accountability?
Speaker 2:there's no, and people just want to blame and it's like I'm coming at it. I'm going to educate clients. If you choose to keep on your nails for four weeks, that's your choice, but this is the complications that will come of it, and that's your decision. I want my therapist to be confident to say that, yeah, but also this has to change in the nail world. You know, these products are really strong. Yeah, and there's a lot of people that are learning in college how to paint nails. Still, yeah, they're not learning about builder gels, but they can buy builder gels. Yeah, there's so there's a massive void area.
Speaker 2:So actually I want this training to go to colleges. I want them to know about this because they're not teaching it. But the people are teaching in colleges haven't got this information anyway so how do you impact change at an education level for this?
Speaker 2:you need to go into companies or governing bodies, like habia, for instance. So I started working with habia to write the waxing code of practice yeah, but to do the actual education. There's a few people I know that I've worked with in the past that would know how to get into that. But that the education that they're teaching, they're still teaching strip wax on the face, but they're also. You've got people teaching in colleges beauty colleges that have never actually worked in salons. Yeah, so they've done a beauty qualification with the basic knowledge and then teaching it. Yeah, so the level, the quality of therapists- like they.
Speaker 2:They're getting signed off and they don't even know. And then my waxing training that I put together. I make all of my team go through it, even if they're qualified, they would all say that the theory is so much more intense than they learned in two years in college. Like how mad is that? Yeah, so we actually support colleges. If they buy our products at a heavily discounted price, because I want them to use good quality products rather than just the cheapest, crappiest ones they can get hold of, I will let them have access to my theory for free. Yeah, I care more about those students coming out and being employable than anything else. Oh my God, like there's a whole thing in itself. I know, I know.
Speaker 1:And you are going to affect that change? Definitely, I really want to, but I personally want you on and I know you do as well to be as loud and proud about this as possible yeah, but it's ruffling feathers.
Speaker 2:I done one video on social and it really put me off kilter because I had the person that's created this online training herself message on my Instagram, because I've done a video saying there isn't anywhere to go for this information. So I'm creating my own. Let me know if you're interested, creating a bit of a wait list, I suppose, but let me know if you're interested. If there's something we're doing, we're in trial phase at the minute. I want my own team to do it, but I want to help the beauty industry or the nail therapist. I want people to feel really comfortable knowing this information, so that we're all talking the same language. So this blame culture can stop. And the doctors don't know. Yeah, so we need to be. We need to be directing our clients to go to the doctors to ask for a fungal test, for instance. They don't need to go in saying what's wrong with me. We've told them we're not medical professionals, but we know more about this because it's our jam, yeah. So then I thought, well, if I'm going out in the big, wide world, do I need to get it signed off like it's facts? And I was like no, because it is. It is fact. Yeah, I'm using medical journals to get this information. The research that's gone into this training is massive. Yeah, I know that it's factually correct. And then it was like, do I need to work with a brand? And then I thought, well, no, because then I'm aligned with a brand. I don't want to do that. I want it to be fully independent. So I got a few people to do it that I really trust and they've all come back said that hands down, the best thing I've ever done. Yeah, and it's only an hour and a half. Yeah, it's just knowledge, but I won't say layman's knowledge, it's just lots of information that's out there, pulled together, put in one place and explained in a therapist perspective. Yeah, and our main mission is to care for these clients. That should be our goal. It shouldn't be an ego thing. No, but it is everywhere you go. It's an ego thing. And then, when I had these comments on my post, I was like, oh fuck, I don't know if I want to do this, I don't know if I've got the fight in me. Well, it's resilience, isn't it? It is and I will be fine.
Speaker 2:There'll be a lot of people because they follow this particular person. There's a lot of you know, like there's a lot of ass kicking in these fucking dinosaurs in the beauty world. It drives me insane and I'm like what are you doing? Like you're these people that have had this information for 30 years. It's not necessarily relevant anymore. Times have changed, like adapt, everything's changed. We're here doing 23 000 sets of nails and you're not thinking we're the experts or we know what we're talking about. Yeah, so nicole wants me to get onto this morning. I, I really do, yeah, to talk to people about this nail training. Haven't we written a press release? Yes, yeah, you have. Yes, because, but I am going to be fighting dinosaurs, the people I call them dinosaurs. It's not fair, because actually they're very lovely people, but you know what I mean. That kind of people that have been in the industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that industry and they've got big following, you know, and they're going to Moomiz is still not very well known in the beauty industry. Because I'm not that person yeah, it's not because I don't want to, I just can't be fucked with it. Yeah, I care more about my team and my clients.
Speaker 1:But you're building it another way. You're building it a non-traditional way versus the way that they built their brands.
Speaker 2:I don't need to be up on a stage to prove that I'm something. I don't need to be in every beauty magazine, to prove to the beauty industry that I am who I say I am. I care more about my clients and the service we're delivering. And that's again staying in my lane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can I just make a point? I've not said this up until now. We're on the cusp. It's a beautiful day.
Speaker 2:Outside side you can probably hear the birds on the recording, but it's probably now that we need to be speaking about it, while everyone's having their nails done, yeah, but people have it done all year round.
Speaker 1:Now, I know, I know, but there's well, you experienced a surge on salon side, don't you?
Speaker 2:in the summer, yeah, yeah always, but it's it's that's more waxing and pedicures that drives us. But nails, people come all year round but we've put in a few guidelines so we won't let people do more than two or three infills before removal. You know, there's lots of things we're trying, like preventative measures to help, and our clients, the way that we've communicated with them, they understand why we're doing it. Yeah, they know what we're doing. They know why we're doing it. Yeah, they know what we're doing. They know why we're doing it and we, because of how many nail treatments we're doing we see this probably more frequently than most businesses would, but also you're doing it for the client, like that's the difference.
Speaker 1:This is not about shaming anyone. It's not about, you know, ripping apart the education sector at the beauty education I just want them to be able to serve better. Yeah, this is just to level up, like to adapt for the technology that they're using technology yeah, I suppose is it technology equipment no product yeah, it's just a more modern product.
Speaker 2:I think it's incredible. Thanks, love, thank you. And I know that I'm onto something and I know that there's other people that probably have this knowledge, but it's just getting it into a format that is understandable. It's lovely, and that I'm talking from someone that's going through this. I'm the one that deals with these complaints. They come to me I know by the time they, if this is coming up, oh my God, they want to speak to the owner of the business because they are freaking out, and rightly so. Yeah, but what my biggest concern is they shouldn't be coming to me because the nail therapist this is why it all started the nail therapist should feel comfortable enough to tell someone what it is and why they've got it and then go through that process of elimination.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it got to a point. Had nobody in my company that knew how to deal with it other than me? Yeah, and even the most experienced people freaked out. They didn't know, they weren't comfortable, and I was like we're seeing more and more and more of this. What is going on? And there was people that said have the manufacturer of the products changed an ingredient? Like there's something? Because we're seeing more, and I think it's just the volume that we're doing, but it's this blame culture, that is, is driving.
Speaker 1:That isn't it? Because if you've got a client going, this is your fault. You, what have you done?
Speaker 2:and then, as soon as, that therapist goes oh my god, I'm so sorry, I don't know what it is oh, I knew it was you.
Speaker 1:I knew it was your fault.
Speaker 2:You've got skanky tools, you've got dirty hygiene and I was like, why are we seeing more? And when I'm saying more, I'm talking like one a month. Yeah, you know severe cases where the nails are lifting and they're dark green, yeah, and they, they literally have to wait for them to grow out. And they're looking for me because, like doctors don't know what it is and then they have to do testing to see if it's fungal, which can take weeks, yeah, and they. You can't diagnose fungal without a full test, like nail clippings.
Speaker 1:But it's also embarrassing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:and that's it they've gone from having beautiful nails, paying 40 pound a set every four weeks, to then, all of a sudden, they've got these horrible green nails and they're struggling. It's really common in the states because of the types of products they use, yeah. However, here, because it's it's this massive rush of going from. We've all used shellac that lasts like 10 days. You know, if you're lucky, I can't keep shellac on for more than five, six days. But we've gone from using shellac and now everybody wants builder, because of the press that's had it, because it lasts, because it's brilliant and it helps your nails grow and it's fucking phenomenal product.
Speaker 2:But, my god, is it different to shellac? And then you've got a much higher risk of allergies because of the chemical makeup. There's a reason why it lasts as long as it does, yeah, but then the training. You can do training for this particular like, buy out the builder products, or you can do training, but you don't need to. Yeah, you don't have to. You can just have a beauty qualification and buy it. So we've got this massive storm of this company has gone huge. But, like the gel bottle, it's brilliant, we use it, I love it, but it needs the respect, yeah, from the professionals but no one's taking responsibility for it.
Speaker 2:No, they are, but they, they are, but they've had such a backlash. They've actually got a facebook group that's been created against the gel bottle because of allergies and they are. They've basically been trying. It's like this oh my God, this witch hunt and it is so vile and so toxic. But they've got thousands of people in this group that literally if you say you use gel bottle, they banish you, you're out and they talk about you know, gel bottle is horrific, it's this and I'm like. But they're all people that are calling themselves experts and saying you know, I've been doing nails 20 years. I've never seen allergies, blah, blah. And it's like, because 20 years ago we were using fucking OPI standard polish you donut, like, come on, wow, you know it doesn't make any sense, but it's so toxic.
Speaker 2:I just pulled myself out of it because I couldn't deal with the noise. I was like this is insane, that you cannot see that this is just evolution and that the industry is changing. And instead of you being so angry that you have had a client that's had an allergy and you've had to deal with this, we need to learn, educate. Is this a problem with the product or do we just need to adapt and change what we're doing. Do we just need to educate clients?
Speaker 2:Because at the minute, everyone's making as much money as they can because this product is selling yes, so everyone's making a shit ton of money doing these nails, but the clients are getting three to four weeks out of it. So the clients are loving it because it's value for money and I'm in the middle going whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So the clients are loving it because it's value for money and I'm in the middle going whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I've seen the evolution of all these nails in my time, like in the years I've been doing beauty. I can see this product, I can see why it's so great. But we have to educate people that this is dangerous if you leave it on too long. But that starts with me and my team and my clients. So I've done it all within my own fold, yeah, and then, and my clients.
Speaker 2:So I've done it all within my own fold, yeah, and now we've put these precautions in place we're seeing, we're seeing, we've seen a huge drop, yeah, in complications nice and an increase in bookings, because clients are like I see it, I don't want that yeah, I want to be there I want to be there, but also I like what you're doing because you give a shit. Yeah, and I've been very clear like this isn't about money. This isn't about me wanting you in every two weeks instead of every four. Do not be fooled. Like you can, if you want it every four weeks, please go elsewhere. But this will happen, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it doesn't matter how good you are as a nail tech, it will happen. Yeah, and actually one of the people I let go in my business was an incredible nail tech the. Her results were phenomenal, but majority of my complaints have been from her work because they looked beautiful and she was encouraging people to do four weeks. She was that nail tech. There is like a lot of people out there without this knowledge yeah, well, because you want that.
Speaker 2:She thinks she's putting the client first by doing great results and making it last four weeks. But the work that, the things we've had, the backlash of it, like it's been really messy. So we've been wading through all of that. But this training I've put together, I feel like it's something really special. I don't want to sit on it for much longer. So I'm putting it out to my own network first, like people that follow me as professional, the beauty experts that follow it. I'm putting it out to them first, I suppose, because it's my safe place.
Speaker 1:You know there is that and then your mate, nicole's going to speak to this morning, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, because it is client-centric, not egocentric. Yeah, which is a huge difference. But again, it's this, you know, trailblazing. It's so, so nerve-wracking, because I'm standing up and going. You guys like, with or without you jump on board or stay behind. Yeah, because this is actually how nails should be done. This is what we should be saying to our clients. This is the comms we should be having. Yeah, we are the experts.
Speaker 2:Let's take it back yeah but you don't feel like the expert because you've just done a nail course for one or two days, or you've just done a beauty course when you've covered nails for two days. You are not the experts anymore just because you've been doing it for five years. We've all had the same training, yeah, but I can honestly stand here and say we are the experts. I am dealing with these people all the time. This is how we need to fix it well, 23,000 is not to be.
Speaker 1:It's not a life of a figure. When I looked at that, I was like no, that can't be right.
Speaker 2:23,500? Oh fuck. Yeah, it is gel, manicures and overlays brilliant.
Speaker 1:I love it. So, on that epic note, oh yes, we've covered a lot of ground today. Death, it's been a long one, hasn't it? It has, yeah, yeah, thanks for sticking with us, if you've made it to this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah me ranting all about nails, but yeah, we've covered a lot yeah, it has been a lot.
Speaker 1:Stay tuned for next week. Let's see what's going to happen in the next week.
Speaker 2:Wowzers can't wait thanks, nicole, thanks, love, bye.
